Let me start with I am an Eli Manning apologist. The day he retires will be a sad day for all Giant fans. And I understand we are in 'win now' mode because of Eli's impending twilight years. But if a NFL caliber QB is available at the 23rd pick like Mitch Trubisky, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger for a number of reasons.
A) Watch Trubisky in the pocket. A shotgun QB with truly exceptional ball skills with regards to play action. He is better now than Eli has ever been at faking play action. Truth is, Eli is terrible at it and always has been. Sometimes, I wonder if he is Peyton's brother, at all. Peyton's ball fake skills were amazing. Eli's? Meh, not so much. And that is a big part of freezing the opposing LBs and secondary so that the advantage goes to the WRs/TEs/RBs in pass patterns.
B) His completion percentage was 68.2% last year. 30 TDs with 6 picks. He spreads the ball around and plays taller than his advertised 6'3" in the pocket. Can make all the throws. Quick throwing motion. Little wasted time in delivering the ball.
C) Big and athletic enough to break tackle here and there and run for a first down here and there. Has a good internal clock. Needs to learn to slide. He won't be trucking LBs in the NFL.
D) Cost control for the cap in upcoming years and the ability to learn from a two time Super Bowl MVP whilst on the job. Seattle built that team because they had Wilson on a rookie contract for three years. Cost controlling the QB position helps tremendously.
He is not 6'3" as stated and probably closer to 6'1". But he plays tall and has good feel. BTW, Arrogant Rodgers is about 6'0". He is a one year starter and his throws on the move need work. That is the one part of his game that seems erratic, at times, to me.
I really don't think he falls to 23 with so many QB needy teams, but, if he did, would you consider him at #23? I wouldn't hesitate.
Mitch Trubisky || - (
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Remember what happened with Dave Brown over Phil Simms?
I'll go with Eli to the bitter end and deal with it then.
Lol wut. Yes let's just ignore the 800 LB gorilla in the room even when Eli is 40 because Dave brown sat behind Simms for a year or two and inevitably sucked.
No.
He wanted Simms over both
First, Eli has done it. Twice. Carr has not. Lots of QB's have great regular seasons. Carson Palmer has been great in the regular season for most of his time with the Cardinals. Not so great in the Playoffs. Andy Dalton, is great in the regular season. Wake me up when he wins a playoff game.
Everyone's HOF QB, Aaron Rodgers had a season for the ages in 2011. Who beat him? Oh, that guy in NY...
The only reason GM's would pick Carr over Eli is age. And yes, Carr would the choice to QB your team the next 10 years..though we don't know what the impact of that injury will be, till he heals up. Oh, that's right, Carr was on the injured list. Unlike the guy in NY, who plays every game.
As far as "tutoring" a draft choice QB, you know that's a joke, right? The backup QB gets few reps in practice, parts of a playoff game, and normally does not play in the regular season. QB's improve and learn by playing, not sitting the bench.
Young and Montana didn't like each other (I'm sure Ninester has more info on that). Joe was rooting for the Chargers to win the SuperBowl in '94, which ticked his former team mates off. Young was no rookie, either...he was playing in the USFL with the Houston Gamblers, then went to the Tampa Bay Bucs before he was traded to SF. There was hardly any "understudy" going on there.
The Favre/Rodgers feud makes Young/Montana look like best buddies, though...even today (check out this SI video talking about the dislike between the two.) Favre did not do anything to help Rodgers out, and I'm sure Aaron would have left the team if Lord Favre stayed, instead of going to the Jets/Vikings.
Transitions normally suck hard (remember when Simms left?). I'd rather go for the Gold now, while we have a franchise guy in place, and wait until we suck to draft a replacement QB. Easier when we're drafting in the top 3-5 slots...
We have way too many holes on offense this year on OL, TE, RB and WR to draft a QB.
First, Eli has done it. Twice. Carr has not. Lots of QB's have great regular seasons. Carson Palmer has been great in the regular season for most of his time with the Cardinals. Not so great in the Playoffs. Andy Dalton, is great in the regular season. Wake me up when he wins a playoff game.
Everyone's HOF QB, Aaron Rodgers had a season for the ages in 2011. Who beat him? Oh, that guy in NY...
The only reason GM's would pick Carr over Eli is age. And yes, Carr would the choice to QB your team the next 10 years..though we don't know what the impact of that injury will be, till he heals up. Oh, that's right, Carr was on the injured list. Unlike the guy in NY, who plays every game.
As far as "tutoring" a draft choice QB, you know that's a joke, right? The backup QB gets few reps in practice, parts of a playoff game, and normally does not play in the regular season. QB's improve and learn by playing, not sitting the bench.
Young and Montana didn't like each other (I'm sure Ninester has more info on that). Joe was rooting for the Chargers to win the SuperBowl in '94, which ticked his former team mates off. Young was no rookie, either...he was playing in the USFL with the Houston Gamblers, then went to the Tampa Bay Bucs before he was traded to SF. There was hardly any "understudy" going on there.
The Favre/Rodgers feud makes Young/Montana look like best buddies, though...even today (check out this SI video talking about the dislike between the two.) Favre did not do anything to help Rodgers out, and I'm sure Aaron would have left the team if Lord Favre stayed, instead of going to the Jets/Vikings.
Transitions normally suck hard (remember when Simms left?). I'd rather go for the Gold now, while we have a franchise guy in place, and wait until we suck to draft a replacement QB. Easier when we're drafting in the top 3-5 slots...
great post
I'm not an Eli basher, I like him, I think he's had a good career and could wind up in the HOF. He might even have another SB in him with the right surrounding cast.
But Derek Carr is better than Eli right now. Today. a GM needing to field a team in 2017 will take Derek Carr over Eli probably 32 times out of 32. Even Reese. long term is obviously laughable since Carr is 10 years younger.
the fact Eli has won 2 Super Bowls is part of what makes him great and a possible hall-of-famer, but it means literally zero when faced with that choice.
Of course this us purely hypothetical and my opinion, but my opinion is likely shared by the people who get paid to make these decisions and the "good lord" response is likely shared by homeric Giants fans and only homeric Giants fans.
If we use a pick on a developmental type in the 4th or 5th round looking to strike gold I get it. That's as far as I would go.
Torrag: There is a reason these guys go in the 4th and 5th rounds. They just aren't good. The Tom Brady flukes are just that. Perfect storms.
And I want to win this year, as well. But ignoring the future puts us where Dallas is now. Cap hell.
I may be overly optimistic, but if we were to re-sign our defensive players and pick up Whitworth, the draft could still add a lot to the team, and taking a QB wouldn't exclude our ability to compete for a SB.
Why can't we get a TE, RB, slot CB, and depth WR in this draft even without a #1? For example: Zay Jones, Leggett, Kareem Hunt and any of the dozens of CBs in this draft (Kazee, Stribling, Elder for example).
And it's not like our #1 is necessarily going to make a huge impact in year one. Often those guys take a while to contribute themselves.
That's exactly what I'm saying. We've got to remember that these are still kids and that there impact, while important, will not make or break our SB run.
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If a great player last until a pick that great players normally don't last to, would you select him?
If all the QB-needy teams don't think he is so great, what makes you think the Giants scouts will see it differently? Are the Giants scouts that much smarter than the scouts for the QB-needy teams? Are you that much smarter than them?
Unless the Giants have a crystal ball that we don't know about, they won't be taking a QB with the 23rd pick because there won't be a QB prospect worth the 23rd pick when the Giants are on the clock. Period. If there are QB prospects worthy of the 23rd pick, they will be gone by the time the 23rd pick rolls around.
To counter your argument why did Aaron Rodgers fall to the 25th pick? Why did every team pass on Derek Carr allowing the Raiders to get him in the 2nd round? I agree with anyone who feels that the Giants should wait to draft Eli's replacement for at least another year unless of course they feel any of these QB's have franchise potential. Personally I would draft a developmental QB in the mid to late rounds and just solidify the rest of the roster.
Why did all these teams pass? Well, some had their QBs. Jimmy Haslam had a boner for Manziel which, frankly, shocked the hell out of me. The Carr name also scared some off. They thought he'd be David. But they ignored the tape and the hunger in this kid. Plus, his brother gave him a wealth of knowledge that the other QBs didn't have. Bridgewater's injury was unfortunate, but his slight build scared me off. He reminded me to much of RG3. Look how that turned out.
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It's a rare case when you are able to land a prospective franchise QB at #23. But if the opportunity is there and you have a conviction about a QB at #23 you've got to take him.
It depends on what you mean by a conviction. My point is that if the Giants--with a franchise QB already in place and under contract for three more years--have a conviction on the guy, chances are the QB-needy teams are going to have a conviction as well. And you can bet they will pounce on the franchise quality prospect long before he reaches the 23rd pick.
Jay...
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To counter your argument why did Aaron Rodgers fall to the 25th pick?
Rodgers was a unique situation. He was the second QB chosen in the draft that year but lasted all the way to the 25th pick after the first overall pick was Alex Smith. The year before that four QB's had gone in the first round and Matt Schaub (who the Giants had a first round grade on) went in the 3rd round. The stars were aligned in such a way that a QB with a first round grade would last until the 25th pick. And when I say a first round grade, I separate that from a franchise QB grade. At the time the word on the street was that neither Smith nor Rodgers compared to Eli, Rivers, and Roethlisberg of the year before.
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Why did every team pass on Derek Carr allowing the Raiders to get him in the 2nd round?
Because Derek Carr was not viewed as a franchise QB and the jury is still out on him. Derek Carr is no Eli Manning. The Raiders were a QB-needy team that passed on Carr with their first pick because Mack was the clearly better prospect. Which says a lot right there. A QB-needy team would not pass on a QB with a franchise QB grade no matter how highly regarded the pass-rusher was. Which is a similar dilemma to what Cleveland faces this year with the first pick. You can bet they wouldn't be taking Garrett over Trubitsky if they had a franchise QB grade on him.
"Because Derek Carr was not viewed as a franchise QB and the jury is still out on him."
Wut? He was ballin' until he broke his leg. The jury has reached it's verdict. The kid is a star. Not sure what games you saw.
That's enough of a valuable and knowledgeable opinion to pass nog time on this guy at 23
Brandt is a Cowboy shill. Careful with his prognostications.
Watch the tape, bub.
I'm not an Eli basher, I like him, I think he's had a good career and could wind up in the HOF. He might even have another SB in him with the right surrounding cast.
But Derek Carr is better than Eli right now. Today. a GM needing to field a team in 2017 will take Derek Carr over Eli probably 32 times out of 32. Even Reese. long term is obviously laughable since Carr is 10 years younger.
the fact Eli has won 2 Super Bowls is part of what makes him great and a possible hall-of-famer, but it means literally zero when faced with that choice.
Of course this us purely hypothetical and my opinion, but my opinion is likely shared by the people who get paid to make these decisions and the "good lord" response is likely shared by homeric Giants fans and only homeric Giants fans.
Carr has had 2 good years. HE's also got the best OL in front of him and two great WRs. Hhis next big win will be his first. But yea, he's clearly better than Eli.
If Eli was on the Raiders last year does anyone think they go into Houston and get the shit kicked out of them? Oh that's right...Carr was hurt. lol.
When Eli had a good OL and good WR's he didn't have as good seasons as Carr, certainly not in his 2nd and 3rd year in the NFL.
You can throw out anything you want, but watching the two play the position this year with my eyes, I'm confident people who get paid to make the decisions would all or close to it want Carr behind center over Eli in 2017 and beyond, assuming they had exact same teams in front of them.
No idea why comparing QB's is taboo. It seems perfectly fair to me.