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*Arizona's Calais Campbell, who is arguably the next best defensive end on the market but isn't an ideal fit because he has spent his career in a 3-4 defense: four years, $33.2 million. *New England's Jabaal Sheard, who had five sacks last season: five years, $44.1 million. *Miami's Andre Branch, who had 5.5 sacks last season: five years, $36.3 million. *Carolina's Mario Addison recorded a career-high 9.5 sacks last season despite starting only one game: four years, $28.6 million. *Carolina's Charles Johnson turns 31 in July. He appears to be on the decline and has had injury concerns in recent seasons: three years, $17.9 million. *For comparison, Pierre-Paul's market value is five years, $73.3 million. |
nah, it's the give a shit factor. Not ready to give a shit, yet.
Maybe March 1st or so.....
Over 650 views. We're awake, and we're reading it, but there isn't much to say. I think most of us - certainly not all of us, but most of us - feel the same way robbie does.
As for the other "DEs", only Branch really has the size to be a 4-3 end, the others are 3-4 guys lacking in size to be a standup in a 4-3 so the comparison is utter shit in most cases. No offense to Duggan but a 3-4 DE/OLB is not going to plug and play at LDE in our defense without giving up run defense or pass rush depending on who it is.
JPP is the best all around DE in FA for 4-3 teams and if we don't lock him up early he's headed somewhere he'll come back and haunt us.
As for the other "DEs", only Branch really has the size to be a 4-3 end, the others are 3-4 guys lacking in size to be a standup in a 4-3 so the comparison is utter shit in most cases. No offense to Duggan but a 3-4 DE/OLB is not going to plug and play at LDE in our defense without giving up run defense or pass rush depending on who it is.
JPP is the best all around DE in FA for 4-3 teams and if we don't lock him up early he's headed somewhere he'll come back and haunt us.
How does Belichick make it work with Sheard? He's definitely not what the Giants look for in 4-3 DE height, but he's been very effective in NE Base 4-3 and sub packages at DE.
I don't see anyone on the list close to JPP, so my preference is keep him, but just curious your thoughts on Sheard, Belichick seems to pull players like Sheard out of his ass every year and get production out of them.
JPP is a game changer and is great against the run and pass. At least IMO allowing our own walk for subpar talent doesn’t make sense. Not one of the players listed hold a candle to JPP on the field. In addition he has like it or not become a leader on this team which we do not have many of.
In regards to Marshall and a Vet presence in the room I do not see him fitting well with this group nor worth the cost to bring him in. He will be looking for good money and is at the tail end of his career with his post career already in place in the media. I like the guy and happy he has overcome some of his issues but he is not a Vet leader I believe this team needs for the younger group. Who that is? I have no clue a solid 2nd or 3rd WR who can produce but knows his role and can teach the younger ones how to be a pro. The only player who is a FA and the salary would fit the bill IMO is Boldin but I am by no means an expert.
This team has most of the talent to win now with a few additions subtractions doesn’t make sense to me.
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Lazy bastids! 😜😜
Over 650 views. We're awake, and we're reading it, but there isn't much to say. I think most of us - certainly not all of us, but most of us - feel the same way robbie does.
Don't care about the views, just convo..And, since when is there nothing to say on BBI? 😜
Part of me does wish they'd consider Campbell inside if JPP leaves, but even though he's been a force to date there's no ignoring that he's a few years older than JPP.
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And get Campbell inside next to Harrison. That would be an utter nightmare for interior OL.
As for the other "DEs", only Branch really has the size to be a 4-3 end, the others are 3-4 guys lacking in size to be a standup in a 4-3 so the comparison is utter shit in most cases. No offense to Duggan but a 3-4 DE/OLB is not going to plug and play at LDE in our defense without giving up run defense or pass rush depending on who it is.
JPP is the best all around DE in FA for 4-3 teams and if we don't lock him up early he's headed somewhere he'll come back and haunt us.
How does Belichick make it work with Sheard? He's definitely not what the Giants look for in 4-3 DE height, but he's been very effective in NE Base 4-3 and sub packages at DE.
I don't see anyone on the list close to JPP, so my preference is keep him, but just curious your thoughts on Sheard, Belichick seems to pull players like Sheard out of his ass every year and get production out of them.
It's the same defense he ran here, you could list LT as a DE if you wanted to or Banks for that matter and call it a 4-3 because that's how they sometimes line up. The fronts are multiple and don't require that prototype 4-3 DE that is so hard to find. Instead they rely on bulk inside and big versatile edge players who aren't great at anything but are solid at run/pass. It's a very simple formula which is why they can let people walk who want huge $, those spots aren't terribly hard to fill.
I don't think anyone questioned Long's ability - it was his durability that was in question after missing time in 14 and 15.
He used Long and Sheard (and I believe Trey Flowers eventually passed Sheard on the depth chart) in a rotation.
For example I don't have the numbers in front of me and they're skewed b/c of JPP injury but JPP and Vernon played over 90% of the snaps or close to it, but in belichick's defense his starting DE's (Long, Sheard, and Flowers) none played more than 65% (Long) and Sheard and Flowers both less than 55%.
He's great at putting the right players on the field to fit his D.
I'm interested to see what happens with Hightower. Knowing the Patriots they'll FT him, LB is n affordable tag. They won't pay him like the leagues' top paid LB. A lot of mileage for a 26 year old. With all the post-season games in NE, it's like another season + for their free agents when they become free agents.
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In comment 13365170 Joey in VA said:
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And get Campbell inside next to Harrison. That would be an utter nightmare for interior OL.
As for the other "DEs", only Branch really has the size to be a 4-3 end, the others are 3-4 guys lacking in size to be a standup in a 4-3 so the comparison is utter shit in most cases. No offense to Duggan but a 3-4 DE/OLB is not going to plug and play at LDE in our defense without giving up run defense or pass rush depending on who it is.
JPP is the best all around DE in FA for 4-3 teams and if we don't lock him up early he's headed somewhere he'll come back and haunt us.
How does Belichick make it work with Sheard? He's definitely not what the Giants look for in 4-3 DE height, but he's been very effective in NE Base 4-3 and sub packages at DE.
I don't see anyone on the list close to JPP, so my preference is keep him, but just curious your thoughts on Sheard, Belichick seems to pull players like Sheard out of his ass every year and get production out of them.
The Pats list a 4-3 starting lineup but they run a front 7 which gets hard to decipher and uses big LBs. Sheard does fine lined up wide because the other down lineman are enormous and the LBs can support him. They play gap football where no player is more important than other, it's assignment based defense that doesn't rely on one type of player. They use well rounded bigger OLB types who play with their hands in the dirt and get listed as DEs. They use two mammoth DTs and one DE sized DE and one smaller DE who can drop to cover or play the run because he's next to a DT who commands a double team.
It's the same defense he ran here, you could list LT as a DE if you wanted to or Banks for that matter and call it a 4-3 because that's how they sometimes line up. The fronts are multiple and don't require that prototype 4-3 DE that is so hard to find. Instead they rely on bulk inside and big versatile edge players who aren't great at anything but are solid at run/pass. It's a very simple formula which is why they can let people walk who want huge $, those spots aren't terribly hard to fill.
thanks, good post, makes sense.
He used Long and Sheard (and I believe Trey Flowers eventually passed Sheard on the depth chart) in a rotation.
For example I don't have the numbers in front of me and they're skewed b/c of JPP injury but JPP and Vernon played over 90% of the snaps or close to it, but in belichick's defense his starting DE's (Long, Sheard, and Flowers) none played more than 65% (Long) and Sheard and Flowers both less than 55%.
He's great at putting the right players on the field to fit his D.
I'm interested to see what happens with Hightower. Knowing the Patriots they'll FT him, LB is n affordable tag. They won't pay him like the leagues' top paid LB. A lot of mileage for a 26 year old. With all the post-season games in NE, it's like another season + for their free agents when they become free agents.
From what I can gather, Belichick loves Hightower and, as pointed out, only 26. That said, who knows what BB does contract-wise with him..
Much easier to find hybrid DE/LBs, inside LBs, and DE/DTs to play 3-4 DE.
I used to think the hardest thing was to find a nose tackle for the 3-4, but now I think a run stuffing tackle is as needed and as difficult to find for a 4-3 so that's a wash.
That is incorrect. Sheard played his first two seasons at DE after Cleveland drafted him and he had 8.5 sacks and 7.0 sacks in that time. During his third season he was moved to OLB in their new 3-4 scheme and over the next two seasons he only had a total of 7.5 sacks. He is actually a better fit at DE. I was among the fans who wanted the Giants to sign him two years ago especially when I saw how little he received from NE. Now he is too expensive for the Giants.
Much easier to find hybrid DE/LBs, inside LBs, and DE/DTs to play 3-4 DE.
I used to think the hardest thing was to find a nose tackle for the 3-4, but now I think a run stuffing tackle is as needed and as difficult to find for a 4-3 so that's a wash.
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schemes.
He used Long and Sheard (and I believe Trey Flowers eventually passed Sheard on the depth chart) in a rotation.
For example I don't have the numbers in front of me and they're skewed b/c of JPP injury but JPP and Vernon played over 90% of the snaps or close to it, but in belichick's defense his starting DE's (Long, Sheard, and Flowers) none played more than 65% (Long) and Sheard and Flowers both less than 55%.
He's great at putting the right players on the field to fit his D.
I'm interested to see what happens with Hightower. Knowing the Patriots they'll FT him, LB is n affordable tag. They won't pay him like the leagues' top paid LB. A lot of mileage for a 26 year old. With all the post-season games in NE, it's like another season + for their free agents when they become free agents.
From what I can gather, Belichick loves Hightower and, as pointed out, only 26. That said, who knows what BB does contract-wise with him..
He loved Jamie Collins too. Until he didn't. Impossible to read Belichick and McCourty is or was the highest paid safety so he's an example where you may be right, I just think Belichick is famous for setting a value on a player and not budging from there.
Welker is a good example. and it's partly why (partly) Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins are no longer Patriots. He didn't want to pay them.
Let Hank walk. Cut JT & Vereen. Extend Pugh. Pick up OBJ's option.
Get AP for cheap if he really wants in & get a Offensive Lineman.
Make some inexpensive depth moves and maybe bring back KRob.
Get the rest in the draft.
Njoku TE Miami. Smith-Schuster WR USC. Garicia OL Troy.
Durability is an ongoing issue, some think he is irreplaceable, not the case.
It's called the fear of the unknown.
That 29 yr. old from Carolina had 10 sacks as a role player, and will cost a lot less, as an example.
I agree with the OLine, need two imv., and another WR.
Miami's Kenny Stills (13.0), Washington's DeSean Jackson (12.8), Buffalo's Marquise Goodwin (12.0), Chicago's Alshon Jeffery (11.7), New England's Michael Floyd (11.6), Cleveland's Terrelle Pryor (10.6) and the Rams' Kenny Britt (10.3) are all free agents that averaged more yards at the catch than Cruz last season. While every player in the group has pros and cons, the bottom line is that any of them would signal an upgrade as Beckham's running mate.
Stills, DJax and Goodwin are small or rather small WRs..Is that what need need as a complement to OBJ? I'd rather go talented AND Tall
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Miami's Kenny Stills (13.0), Washington's DeSean Jackson (12.8), Buffalo's Marquise Goodwin (12.0), Chicago's Alshon Jeffery (11.7), New England's Michael Floyd (11.6), Cleveland's Terrelle Pryor (10.6) and the Rams' Kenny Britt (10.3) are all free agents that averaged more yards at the catch than Cruz last season. While every player in the group has pros and cons, the bottom line is that any of them would signal an upgrade as Beckham's running mate.
Stills, DJax and Goodwin are small or rather small WRs..Is that what need need as a complement to OBJ? I'd rather go talented AND Tall
DJax and Goodwin can take the top off a defense and a player like that may prove to be a great complement to OBJ. You prefer for them to be 6"4 & 4.4 but if they play big that can make up for it too.
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Miami's Kenny Stills (13.0), Washington's DeSean Jackson (12.8), Buffalo's Marquise Goodwin (12.0), Chicago's Alshon Jeffery (11.7), New England's Michael Floyd (11.6), Cleveland's Terrelle Pryor (10.6) and the Rams' Kenny Britt (10.3) are all free agents that averaged more yards at the catch than Cruz last season. While every player in the group has pros and cons, the bottom line is that any of them would signal an upgrade as Beckham's running mate.
Stills, DJax and Goodwin are small or rather small WRs..Is that what need need as a complement to OBJ? I'd rather go talented AND Tall
DJax and Goodwin can take the top off a defense and a player like that may prove to be a great complement to OBJ. You prefer for them to be 6"4 & 4.4 but if they play big that can make up for it too.
I certainly could live with that, but my preference would be no. We've been struggling in the red zone..A bigger, Boldin-like player(with more speed) would do wonders, imv
Mike Williams or Corey Davis Round 1
With Woods (or someone similar) on a one-year deal, it would mean that come draft day the Giants could use a 1st round pick on a WR or no picks on a WR without worrying about the consequences on the cap and/or roster going forward.
On the other hand, if they were to sign someone like Britt to a big money long term contract, it kind of precludes drafting a WR early because the logjam would be untenable and it would also create an unnecessary burden on the cap once OBJ is given his monster deal.
Says who? He had 15.5 sacks his first two seasons as DE
Says who?
He was in a 4-3 in Cleveland his rookie season (coached under Dick Jauron and when Cleveland changed changed coaches, the new staff wanted to bring in Ray Horton even though Cleveland players wanted to keep Jauron and his style which fit the players (like Sheard). Pats got a steal when they dealt for him because he is, actually, a better DE in a 4-3 than a hybrid rusher in a 3-4.
His size is in question but Olivier Vernon is similar in size.
Mike Williams or Corey Davis Round 1
Dude Mike Williams and Davis are going way before our pick. Let's be realistic a bit. I get the wishful thinking but that is absurd
As for his WR excerpt he has two of the three FA wideouts I covet on his list. Stills and Pryor. I'm not interested in smaller guys this time around. We need some size in that unit that can joust balls in the red zone.
As for his WR excerpt he has two of the three FA wideouts I covet on his list. Stills and Pryor. I'm not interested in smaller guys this time around. We need some size in that unit that can joust balls in the red zone.
But isn't Stills barely 6'?
As for his WR excerpt he has two of the three FA wideouts I covet on his list. Stills and Pryor. I'm not interested in smaller guys this time around. We need some size in that unit that can joust balls in the red zone.
I'm unsure on Marshall, but I don't see Pryor fitting. He's had some attitude issues around the league. Several guys, including our own Jackrabbit, blast him. Jeffrey will be too pricey, too.
Duggan lists Britt, Quick, Williams and Garcon in his video. Does list the potential issues with Britt returning home and getting into trouble again with it. I would be all right with Garcon but he's not the red zone this offense could use.
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Schuster-Smith Round 2
Mike Williams or Corey Davis Round 1
Dude Mike Williams and Davis are going way before our pick. Let's be realistic a bit. I get the wishful thinking but that is absurd
WHy is that? Because all the mocks you've read online have them going before 23? You never know man, neither guy is a sure fire top 10 guy. If one falls to within 10 picks of our spot, Reese could pull the trigger if he falls in love with ar particular playmaker. Maybe someone likes Ross Better, or another WR and one of these guys falls to 23, its not impossible.
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In comment 13365248 est1986 said:
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Schuster-Smith Round 2
Mike Williams or Corey Davis Round 1
Dude Mike Williams and Davis are going way before our pick. Let's be realistic a bit. I get the wishful thinking but that is absurd
WHy is that? Because all the mocks you've read online have them going before 23? You never know man, neither guy is a sure fire top 10 guy. If one falls to within 10 picks of our spot, Reese could pull the trigger if he falls in love with ar particular playmaker. Maybe someone likes Ross Better, or another WR and one of these guys falls to 23, its not impossible.
Within 10 spots? Do you have any idea how expensive it is in terms of picks to move up 10 spots in the first round?
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In comment 13365316 Tuckrule said:
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In comment 13365248 est1986 said:
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Schuster-Smith Round 2
Mike Williams or Corey Davis Round 1
Dude Mike Williams and Davis are going way before our pick. Let's be realistic a bit. I get the wishful thinking but that is absurd
WHy is that? Because all the mocks you've read online have them going before 23? You never know man, neither guy is a sure fire top 10 guy. If one falls to within 10 picks of our spot, Reese could pull the trigger if he falls in love with ar particular playmaker. Maybe someone likes Ross Better, or another WR and one of these guys falls to 23, its not impossible.
Within 10 spots? Do you have any idea how expensive it is in terms of picks to move up 10 spots in the first round?
23 to 17 would not be as expensive as you think. A third rounder at the very best, maybe a third rounder but a 5th rounder in exchange and swap first's. That draft choice value chart shit is exactly that, shit.
They can manufacture Pressure without JPP.... reference the Posts on BB New England Apporoach, That's what the Gmen did without JPP.
I'd like both Back---very much want Hank if it's one or the other.
They can manufacture Pressure without JPP.... reference the Posts on BB New England Apporoach, That's what the Gmen did without JPP.
I'd like both Back---very much want Hank if it's one or the other.
You couldn't be any more wrong if you tried.
Hankins "stuff" will be far easier to replace than JPP, and it's not even close. Hankins is a good player. JPP is a special player.
You mention the pressure that JPP brings but you neglect to mention his run stopping ability..it is the combination of the 2 that makes him difficult to replace. Add in his league leading number of batted passes and you have a special player.