Draft Dilema

you haven't mentioned if we did anything to address the OL in FA.

I don't want to have to rely on a still very raw Okwara and the JAG duo of Odi and Wynn lining up across from OV while we wait on a lesser talent likely picked later in the draft to earn his time.


Just resign JPP.

I'd be happy with any of the pass rushers you named, if we don't sign JPP. If we do, and Howard or Njoku are available, I'd pick one of them.

In comment 13365403 Diver_Down said:

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you haven't mentioned if we did anything to address the OL in FA.

Originally when contemplating this scenario, I was focusing on Whittworth re-signing with the Bengals and the Giants left with Flowers at LT. They could always go after Reiff, but for the sake of discussion assume no improvements at OT have come through FA.

...how do you rank these prospects. I'd say it's still early for final determinaion butas there's still a lot of data to assemble. I do like Taco Charlton and especially how his pass rush impact solidified down the stretch and in big games last season. I doubt Ramczyk would be that high on my board when you factor in his small sample and surgery. But it's still early.

In comment 13365417 Reb8thVA said:

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In comment 13365403 Diver_Down said: Quote: you haven't mentioned if we did anything to address the OL in FA. Originally when contemplating this scenario, I was focusing on Whittworth re-signing with the Bengals and the Giants left with Flowers at LT. They could always go after Reiff, but for the sake of discussion assume no improvements at OT have come through FA.

With no improvements to OT in FA, they I would think you would need to select Ryan. Even if Flowers holds down LT, then that only leaves Hart. Newhouse doesn't have a contract.

I think would be BPA.

Ramcyzk would be best combination of need and value.

My opinion (so far).

But I think when the time comes, RR won't be there and we'll take Charlton.

I see both as effective players on the Giants. Toss up regarding who's better.

If the Giants don't re-sign JPP that money is most likely invested in the OL.

Ranking the prospects I'd go:

1a. Takk
1b. Barnett
3. Ramcyk
4. Taco

And I need to get more info on Ramczyk's hip. Assuming he checks out OK for training camp...

1 - Taco Charlton
2 - Ryan Ramczyk
3 - Derek Barnett
4 - Takkarist McKinley

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in their last matchup. Both Barnett and Takk scare me against the run. Charlton does a somewhat better job in that regard, and he hustles all the time.

JPP or someone else, for sure.

If they have decided that they need an offensive tackle, they will sign a Free Agent before the draft.

Same story for TE.

Then they will pick BPA on their draft board.

In comment 13365461 yatqb said:

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in their last matchup. Both Barnett and Takk scare me against the run. Charlton does a somewhat better job in that regard, and he hustles all the time.

Holden is one of the most underrated players in this draft class

A typical Belichick pick. Do you see him as a 2nd rounder?

this coming season.....we will be lucky to get one starter from the position we are drafting at....

Drafting a DE at 23 and expecting him to be better than what we have, is a reach....Yes, OO and Okwara are raw, but how much less raw, will the 23rd pick be than those two guys who have NFL experience....we have to hope one of them takes a major leap next season....

FAcy will determine the path we take in the draft......players and their agents know what positions, the Giants are desperate for, and they will up their asking price....

If JPP doesn't sign, a franchise tag on him, will paralyze our cap moves....this off season is going to be just as important for Reese as last season...if he is not successful, it will be 2 steps forward last season, and one step back this one....keep your fingers crossed....

to me isn't a first rounder. He doesn't have any one skill that jumps.

Charleton, is a sky's the limit type player.. some tape, he looks like the second coming. As gifted as JPP. Some tape, he doesn't use his length and gets smothered. If his technique improves, he's a good one. He gets off, he bends, and he has nice wing span. If they want more of a sure thing they may go elsewhere.

Ramczyk looks good .. but hip surgery is usually nothing to flinch at. Big if's with him. I'm curious as to his wingspan.

Takkarist McKinney doesn't fit what we currently do on defense. I don't think he's a first rounder. Nothing exceptional, doesn't use his hands well.

SO Charleton, Ramczyk, Barnett, the McKinley in that order. I don't know if the last three are first rounders.

Since I don't watch much college, this is based on what I've read. I've read that he reminds people of Tuck. If that's true,there's no way someone who can rush the passer and play the run like Tuck will be there at 23. A guy that can get to the QB and play the run will go in the top10.

In comment 13365489 yatqb said:

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A typical Belichick pick. Do you see him as a 2nd rounder?

I have a 2nd/3rd round grade

In this era's NFL it's not only about "starters". It's about contributors. It's true that it's rare for the Giants to land a ton of immediate starters in any draft. But I could see us landing several players who would have expanding roles for us over the course of the season, whether OL, slot CB, LB, RB, DL, WR or TE. Hopefully, some of those become core players down the line.

In comment 13365497 Samiam said:

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Since I don't watch much college, this is based on what I've read. I've read that he reminds people of Tuck. If that's true,there's no way someone who can rush the passer and play the run like Tuck will be there at 23. A guy that can get to the QB and play the run will go in the top10.

Maybe true...but Tuck was a 3rd round pick...

Number one CB in country. Will be first CB off the board

Tuck was drafted in the 3rd round - mainly because of injuries. Looking back now, based on his pro performance, he should have been a high #1 in my opinion

Before his senior season, but then broke his leg.

I just don't see it. I see a guy who tries to run around blocks in the running game and simply doesn't have the pass rush moves. He got chewed up vs Wisconsin. Just lacks physicality and plays small in my opinion.

In comment 13365504 Samiam said:

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Tuck was drafted in the 3rd round - mainly because of injuries. Looking back now, based on his pro performance, he should have been a high #1 in my opinion

But they can still project as similar prospects. Charlton started for only 1 year...Personally I think he will be a top 10-12 pick...but it wouldn't be a surprise at all to see him fall to 23.

Even though, I don't want to. The JPP situation may turn out to be very much a Plaxico situation. Remember when BBI was just about losing it's collective minds worrying that we might not sign him ?

We gave him an offer, then he went out and tested the market, he came back.

JPP IS still very good, but is he "Top Four" anymore ? Cold-Hard fact, probably not. We can probably afford to pay him $12M-$14M, but not the $17M tag and certainly not $85M long-term that he wants - without wrecking the chance of fixing the offense.

As far as trying to find someone who can START at left tackle out of the draft, forget it, not this year. It will take a #1 to get the Brown's Joe Thomas here - that fixes out gaping hole (the JPP $$ pays for him).

The offense only has two FIRST TIER problems, in my estimation - left tackle and wide receiver. If those those two can be fixed this year, sky's the limit.

If it takes 5-6 draft choices (via parlay & trade) to help make-up for losing JPP, we'll be ahead.

In comment 13365403 Diver_Down said:

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you haven't mentioned if we did anything to address the OL in FA.

Well of they dont redo JPP how do we know they don't crap a replacement. Calais Campbell is older than. JPP Maybe he can be had for a shorter deal

A lot of unknowns right now.

you take the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE. If that player happens to fit a pressing need, then all the better. But you don't pass on a player with a scout rating of 98 to take a player with a rating of 82 because it fills a specific need.

If we lose JPP, we have Okwara, Odighizuwa, Maponga, etc., ready to step in (maybe not at JPP's level) as the team collects more DE's in the draft and after the draft.

salary cap thing. Some franchises seem to do whatever they please despite the cap. Perhaps it's that they originally structure contracts in a way that makes a restructure efficient and productive.

The Cowboys are 10,000 OVER the cap and yet two of the ESPN NFC East reporters are urging them to sign JPP and explaining how this can be managed under the cap.

The Giants are at least 25 to 30 million under the cap, with more to come from the league, and without restructuring a single contract and yet signing JPP and maybe having to overpay him will hamstring them from making the other offseason moves in free agency.

I'm having trouble buying this.

In comment 13365657 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:

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salary cap thing. Some franchises seem to do whatever they please despite the cap. Perhaps it's that they originally structure contracts in a way that makes a restructure efficient and productive. The Cowboys are 10,000 OVER the cap and yet two of the ESPN NFC East reporters are urging them to sign JPP and explaining how this can be managed under the cap. Maybe the other owners, GMs, etc. are smarter or more devious (dishonest) than Mara. Maybe Mara has to study harder. The Giants are at least 25 to 30 million under the cap, with more to come from the league, and without restructuring a single contract and yet signing JPP and maybe having to overpay him will hamstring them from making the other offseason moves in free agency. I'm having trouble buying this.

In comment 13365657 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:

Quote:

salary cap thing. Some franchises seem to do whatever they please despite the cap. Perhaps it's that they originally structure contracts in a way that makes a restructure efficient and productive. The Cowboys are 10,000 OVER the cap and yet two of the ESPN NFC East reporters are urging them to sign JPP and explaining how this can be managed under the cap. The Giants are at least 25 to 30 million under the cap, with more to come from the league, and without restructuring a single contract and yet signing JPP and maybe having to overpay him will hamstring them from making the other offseason moves in free agency. I'm having trouble buying this.

Maybe the other owners, GMs, etc. are smarter or more devious (dishonest) than Mara. Maybe Mara has to study harder.

voluntarily gave up two third round draft picks to Miami when they signed Larry Csonka who had, of course, signed with the World Football League, which didn't last long. Since the Giants hadn't signed him away from Miami, no compensation was required.

Maybe Mara should have had the season ticket holders vote on this.

The Giants have to face Dak twice a year. If JPP not only leaves the Giants, but goes to the Cowboys....

Well you never know how things are going to work out.

looks really, really fast on video. Wonder what he will run at the combine.

One thing Reese has always been good at is taking drafting need off the board via free agency. I am confident that he will fill the obvious need positions (LT, G, TE, WR) through free agency so he will be in a position to take BPA in the first round. That said, if he can't resign JPP, he will likely pick between Charlton and McDowell in round one, both of whom are currently rated right in that 22-26 area.

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In comment 13365419 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 13365417 Reb8thVA said: Quote: In comment 13365403 Diver_Down said: Quote: you haven't mentioned if we did anything to address the OL in FA. Originally when contemplating this scenario, I was focusing on Whittworth re-signing with the Bengals and the Giants left with Flowers at LT. They could always go after Reiff, but for the sake of discussion assume no improvements at OT have come through FA. With no improvements to OT in FA, they I would think you would need to select Ryan. Even if Flowers holds down LT, then that only leaves Hart. Newhouse doesn't have a contract.

if Flowers is our LT next season I for one will be extremely disappointed..