With the Sixers barely losing games that they seem intent on throwing (#trusttheprocess) and accruing way too many wins, the Kings swap may come to fruition. The irony is that Hinkie (RIP) was made a scapegoat for processing but Colangelo is clearly shelving healthy (enough) players to further the tank.
We'll also take the Lakers pick if it's out of the top three.
about not having a good pick. Probably wise to think long term with Simmons/Embiid though. But a last minute playoff push wouldn't be the worst thing.
Well I guess we'll finally settle the cousins debate. Cats out of the bag. New setting, fellow Wildcat, no excuses.
I'm really at a loss for what the Pelicans gave up. They're usually on the losing side of trades but they didn't give up one even replacement level player (and that pick is TBD, not likely to be that high).
How the fuck will you outrebound NO? Two crazy good bigs with no real flaws of note. Cousins is a great passing big and finally has a worthy teammate. Both guys stretch the floor. Both are stud defenders (well, cousins is at times anyways, when he tries). Holiday is no slouch. NO doesn't have shit besides those 3, I guess they're relying on vets to come and play alongside those 3.
For picks to take on bad contracts. I'd assume NO is trying to keep Holiday. If that's the case, they'lol be committing heart $60M a year (or maybe more) to Cousins and Davis. They have $35M a year committed to Asik, Hill, Ajinca and Moore for the next 4 years. That's enough to pay for the cousins deal itself.
how does the Pau for CP3 trade get vetoed but not this?
The NBA offices essentially owned the Hornets at the time due to their financial issues so a bit of a different situation.
Overall just crazy trade. Boogie has baggage and is a poor defender but he's easily the best offensive big man in the game IMO. It's hard to find a 4 who can fit well next to him but Davis fits that mold I think.
For the Kings, they are basically getting two firsts and a second for him lol - crazy considering players like Mozgov have gotten the same the past few years.
I like Hield but objectively how much upside does he have? He's already 22-23 years old. The New Orleans first round pick this year will probably be 10-17 so an ok but not great pick.
For the Pelicans, their depth is absolutely brutal but it's a good move IMO - puts them on the map for the first time since the Chris Paul era basically. They'll have around 16 million in cap space this summer even with Cousins (although they need to resign Holiday) which may help.
cousins for Hield and a first? Hield is 23, he isnt even that young, and hasnt set the world on fire so far. Cousins attitude must have really turned some teams off. I feel like i could come up with 20 better deals then this.
season plus, and his agent has said if traded he'll test UFA (I think it was a bargaining tactic -- he wanted to extension only available if you havent been moved). Still, thought Boston should have bitten the bullet.
Cousins wouldnt have cost KP-plus. The Pels package wasnt worth KP alone. But before people dismiss the return, if you like Buddy this is not a bad return, especially when you factor in the impact on Sacto's natural lottery pick this season.
next year if they can add some depth in FA. Davis should be able to excel with anyone so him and Cousins should be a solid fit.
Had the knicks had their first round pick last year they prolly could have made this trade, but other then WH we dont have anyone that really fit what SAC was looking for and im guessing they thought Hield was a better add then WH (im not so sure). But say we took Jamal Murray like DEN did then we def could have made a similar type trade. SAC wanted a young player or two, cap relief, and a 1st. We could have done that. Who knows how Cousins would fit and in NY he would probably be a disaster but at the price NO paid he is 1000% worth the risk.
2. Boston wanted no part of Cousins. They could have danced circles around this offer, but they didn't.
3. Boston will want no part of Melo. They are making good decisions. The team is good now, but they have a chance to build a dynasty over the next few years if they hit on their picks. I wouldn't touch melo either if I was them.
4. No excuses for Boogie now. Let's see if he can play nice in the sandbox because that front line has a ton of potential and should carry them fairly easily.
but I would not assume that the trade was well shopped. There were grumbles after the SAC-PHI trade a few years ago that SAC didnt call around. And if they really like Hield, you cant match a specific player. Jamal Murray =/= Buddy Hield. Some people like one guy, some people prefer the other.
season plus, and his agent has said if traded he'll test UFA (I think it was a bargaining tactic -- he wanted to extension only available if you havent been moved). Still, thought Boston should have bitten the bullet.
Cousins wouldnt have cost KP-plus. The Pels package wasnt worth KP alone. But before people dismiss the return, if you like Buddy this is not a bad return, especially when you factor in the impact on Sacto's natural lottery pick this season.
You mean the sixers natural lottery selection?
Hield is 3 years younger than cousins. There's no way around this being mostly a contract dump. A contract dump with boogie being the expiring.
And also I'm not sure there was 0 market for boogie. Supposedly the Kings declined an offer for Drummond for cousins. This was a puke worthy Return for SAC.
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Kings view Buddy Hield as a top 5 pick, per source. In their eyes they received a top 5 talent and a top 10 pick, if Pelicans stay mediocre.
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Kings view Buddy Hield as a top 5 pick, per source. In their eyes they received a top 5 talent and a top 10 pick, if Pelicans stay mediocre.
What a joke. When they say "Kings" they mean 3 of the 15 people in Sacramento that have say in personnel moves.
Im a Boogie skeptic, but N.O. now has the NBA's two best veteran centers, one of whom can easily play the 4. If one more big name goes there, they could put a hurt on any team. Does Chris Paul turn a LeBron and return to NO? Lowry bail on the Raps? Or use Holiday's cheap cap hold # to sign another guy in the $15-20mm range, and then re-up Holiday?
Sadly for NO, they have a bunch of long term contracts. Hill, Asik, and Moore each make 8.4-11.75 next year and are signed thru 2019-20. Not sure if they can give those guys away for free (Asik I think hey cant), but they probably have to move at least two of them to hunt for another big UFA.
I got nothing against Buddy... but that noise coming from SAC is ridiculous.
Cousins is Cousins and Hield is Hield... and in no way, shape or form did the Kings get anything other than royally screwed in this trade.
I think that's right. My point is only that if you LOVE Hield I could see why you dont shop this deal more. Plus Im sure they've gotten indications from asset ladden teams over the past several weeks.
Im a Boogie skeptic, but N.O. now has the NBA's two best veteran centers, one of whom can easily play the 4. If one more big name goes there, they could put a hurt on any team. Does Chris Paul turn a LeBron and return to NO? Lowry bail on the Raps? Or use Holiday's cheap cap hold # to sign another guy in the $15-20mm range, and then re-up Holiday?
Sadly for NO, they have a bunch of long term contracts. Hill, Asik, and Moore each make 8.4-11.75 next year and are signed thru 2019-20. Not sure if they can give those guys away for free (Asik I think hey cant), but they probably have to move at least two of them to hunt for another big UFA.
Would you take on the Hill contract for free if you're the Knicks? He's young, but that's really the only thing to like about that contract now. They'll have to dole out 1sts to get rid of those deals, but at least Hill and Moore might give you rotational minutes.
I don't give the Pelicans for thinking Long term, but wouldn't it be better to trade Holiday for some low cost assets and then make a play on CP3/Lowry?
Don't get me wrong, Pelicans are in every shape and form the winner of this deal, but it's hard to see how they upgrade the roster from here.
Reke is a real could-have-been candidate. His 20-5-5 rookie season was just the 4th in history, and the other 3 were Oscar, MJ, and LeBron. Has his career turned even slightly north instead of south from there and we're probably taking about a 2-3 SG in the league. Even still, his r-a-steal #s are really solid for his whole career.
but I would not assume that the trade was well shopped. There were grumbles after the SAC-PHI trade a few years ago that SAC didnt call around. And if they really like Hield, you cant match a specific player. Jamal Murray =/= Buddy Hield. Some people like one guy, some people prefer the other.
There have been rumors of Boogie being available for 2 years. Any team that had any interest would have called or spoken to them at some point. This wasn't a trade that came out of nowhere.
but I would not assume that the trade was well shopped. There were grumbles after the SAC-PHI trade a few years ago that SAC didnt call around. And if they really like Hield, you cant match a specific player. Jamal Murray =/= Buddy Hield. Some people like one guy, some people prefer the other.
There have been rumors of Boogie being available for 2 years. Any team that had any interest would have called or spoken to them at some point. This wasn't a trade that came out of nowhere.
True that any team interested should have called. I think it is likely they were told he isnt available forever, rumors notwithstanding (and they werent strong rumors). Apparently the Kings told Boogie he wasnt being extended. I still think this could have cropped up out of nowhere. We'll see...
Divac really is a moron. This deal and the Stauskas trade will make Billy King's trade look good.
How do they not get more for Cousins? He is an incredible talent- top 10 player/ top 5 talent and still young! He has his flaws but that franchise has been dog shit around him.
Where was Washington/ Phoenix/ Orlando/ Miami ? Just a few teams off the top of my head. If you want to dump him you need to get at least 3 1st round picks coming back.
Can the Knicks benefit from this? Courtney Lee for Asik/ future 1st? New Orleans has 3 big time pieces to build around- all around the same age. I'm happy as hell the Celtics didn't get him.
If you want to dump him you need to get at least 3 1st round picks coming back.
why is 3 a magic number? Why speak of 1st round picks as a thing. Getting 3 1st round picks from the Spurs is not the same thing as getting 3 #1s from the Nets. Referring to 3 #1s without considering the quality of the picks is silly.
there clearly wasn't a lot of interest in Cousins.
It's just really surprising to me and I blame Divac for not drumming up a market for a great player. The risk reward here is crazy. What's the risk for New Orleans? Buddy Hield becomes a star? The draft pick traded is highly likely to fall between 13-15th overall. To be able to pair the 2 best big men in the league together with a really good point guard? Pelicans went from having a bleak future to turning Hield/ Evans/ Galloway/ pick into an all nba player. These are the trades you want your team to make, I'm happy for New Orleans.
There's no disputing that. But he's also somewhat of a malcontent & I'm sure that scared away some potential suitors. Also, Boogie is a UFA next summer & his agent made some rumblings that he's going to test the market.
Personally, I think Cousins, in the right situation, wouldn't be an issue @ all & I expect him to resign with NOLA. Him & Davis could be a nightmare for the league for a decade.
that SAC couldnt wait. SAC's pick goes to CHI if it is #10 or worse, and SAC was sitting right on that border. Trading Boogie guarantees that that they'll keep their #1. So it's not like getting a top 10 pick because it was probably 50-50 that they'd get it anyway (46% to keep it per BBref), but it's a significant factor. I'd be pretty shocked if they're not a top 5 lotto team now. If they manage to snag a top 3 pick, this trade actually starts to look pretty acceptable. Still a problem because the return isnt that great, but they end up ok.
Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract
If you want to dump him you need to get at least 3 1st round picks coming back.
why is 3 a magic number? Why speak of 1st round picks as a thing. Getting 3 1st round picks from the Spurs is not the same thing as getting 3 #1s from the Nets. Referring to 3 #1s without considering the quality of the picks is silly.
Yes they are not all equal but 1st round picks are incredibly valuable- even just to use as trade chips. Especially with the new CBA. Look at the Goran Dragic deal- who was a pending FA, got 2 future 1sts.
You're telling me the Kings couldn't have gotten a 2019 and 2021 1st round pick in this trade? They pretty much know where the 2017 pick from NOLA is going to fall. If your dumping him for pennies, at least get a future 1st down the line and pray it becomes a really high pick.
necessarily who didn't want Cousins, it was Stevens and even Isiah Thomas. Random tweets from local beat guys claiming this, nothing official, but I'm surprised if true.
Guards are the Celtics strength and guards are who I hear are likely available at the top of the draft with the Nets pick. No Embiid in this draft.
Where do they get a big man/rim protector? Seemed obvious.
If you want to dump him you need to get at least 3 1st round picks coming back.
why is 3 a magic number? Why speak of 1st round picks as a thing. Getting 3 1st round picks from the Spurs is not the same thing as getting 3 #1s from the Nets. Referring to 3 #1s without considering the quality of the picks is silly.
Yes they are not all equal but 1st round picks are incredibly valuable- even just to use as trade chips. Especially with the new CBA. Look at the Goran Dragic deal- who was a pending FA, got 2 future 1sts.
You're telling me the Kings couldn't have gotten a 2019 and 2021 1st round pick in this trade? They pretty much know where the 2017 pick from NOLA is going to fall. If your dumping him for pennies, at least get a future 1st down the line and pray it becomes a really high pick.
They better hope Buddy Hield becomes a superstar
GSW's future #1s are not very valuable. They have some value. People are too caught up in #1s undifferentiated by team/situation.
necessarily who didn't want Cousins, it was Stevens and even Isiah Thomas. Random tweets from local beat guys claiming this, nothing official, but I'm surprised if true.
Guards are the Celtics strength and guards are who I hear are likely available at the top of the draft with the Nets pick. No Embiid in this draft.
Where do they get a big man/rim protector? Seemed obvious.
Okafor now?
this guy is not a rim protector.
Noel, SAC's 2018 and 2019 #1s for Brooklyn's 2017 #1, PHI retains the right to push the BK pick to 2018 after seeing the lottery results. Who says no?
will ease Kings fans pains a little. I'm a big believer still. He's been playing really well recently in limited minutes. Kings at least move on from this debacle, but the sixers take a lot of the tanking incentive away the next few years.
necessarily who didn't want Cousins, it was Stevens and even Isiah Thomas. Random tweets from local beat guys claiming this, nothing official, but I'm surprised if true.
Guards are the Celtics strength and guards are who I hear are likely available at the top of the draft with the Nets pick. No Embiid in this draft.
Where do they get a big man/rim protector? Seemed obvious.
Okafor now?
this guy is not a rim protector.
Noel, SAC's 2018 and 2019 #1s for Brooklyn's 2017 #1, PHI retains the right to push the BK pick to 2018 after seeing the lottery results. Who says no?
that makes sense if the Celtics think they can win it all this year. I think the Celtics may think they can compete with CLE, maybe, but not GS.
I think they can get Noel in FA after the season, right? Noel is an RFA, an I'm no expert in NBA FA, but I think the Celtics can pry him away from what I've read and the Sixers likely wouldn't match an offer.
that Philly wont match. I think anything reasonable they match and look to trade Noel or Okafor in time.
My proposal has Boston delaying the Nets haul more than forgoing it. Those 2 Sac picks are going to be fantastic.
BTW, this Boogie trade just helps Philly. Philly is the big winner. Philly already has:
Embiid, Simmons, Noel, Saric, Covington (nice player), and some draft and follows. Then add in 4 lottery picks over the next 3 seasons, most of which are likely to be high lottery (PHI 2017, SAC 2018(s) and 2019, LA 2017 or 2018). And OKC's protected 2020 #1, and a net of 7 #2 picks.
If Philly is just decent at drafting/trading, they're gonna be a murderous. That's assuming Embiid is healthy enough and Simmons turns out reasonably.
that SAC couldnt wait. SAC's pick goes to CHI if it is #10 or worse, and SAC was sitting right on that border. Trading Boogie guarantees that that they'll keep their #1. So it's not like getting a top 10 pick because it was probably 50-50 that they'd get it anyway (46% to keep it per BBref), but it's a significant factor. I'd be pretty shocked if they're not a top 5 lotto team now. If they manage to snag a top 3 pick, this trade actually starts to look pretty acceptable. Still a problem because the return isnt that great, but they end up ok.
Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract
SAC does not own Philly's 1st rounder next year. They owe Philly an unprotected 1st round pick in 2019.
that SAC couldnt wait. SAC's pick goes to CHI if it is #10 or worse, and SAC was sitting right on that border. Trading Boogie guarantees that that they'll keep their #1. So it's not like getting a top 10 pick because it was probably 50-50 that they'd get it anyway (46% to keep it per BBref), but it's a significant factor. I'd be pretty shocked if they're not a top 5 lotto team now. If they manage to snag a top 3 pick, this trade actually starts to look pretty acceptable. Still a problem because the return isnt that great, but they end up ok.
Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract
I think you're misremembering the Philly/SAC pick situation. The Sixers enjoy the right to pick swap with the Kings in the upcoming draft, and with the Kings only 3.5 games ahead of an improving Sixers team, this swap seems more likely now that SAC will probably implode.
The Sixers own their own pick in the 2018 draft....I'd love to own the Kings 2018 but unfortunately it's not the case.
The Sixers also own the Kings 2019 pick, unprotected, along with their own.
that SAC couldnt wait. SAC's pick goes to CHI if it is #10 or worse, and SAC was sitting right on that border. Trading Boogie guarantees that that they'll keep their #1. So it's not like getting a top 10 pick because it was probably 50-50 that they'd get it anyway (46% to keep it per BBref), but it's a significant factor. I'd be pretty shocked if they're not a top 5 lotto team now. If they manage to snag a top 3 pick, this trade actually starts to look pretty acceptable. Still a problem because the return isnt that great, but they end up ok.
Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract
SAC does not own Philly's 1st rounder next year. They owe Philly an unprotected 1st round pick in 2019.
Yes, my mistake. The right to swap with Philly is for this year, not next year.
Colangelo is being lauded for not pulling the trigger on the Jah deal
to NO. If his return was only going to be a top-20 protected 1st rounder it made much more sense to keep him and allow the Boogie deal to passively improve the Sixers position more so (not that Colangelo knew it would happen).
In a perfect world, the Kings land a top three pick for which the Sixers exercise the swap, and the Lakers land the 4th pick which converts to Philly. Secure your pure PG of the future and a shooter.
As crazy as this may sound, the Knicks should learn from this deal with regards to Melo. I know the return the Kings got back wasn't strong, but they accessed their current situation and moved him. As Deej and others have pointed out, there's real value to them in improving and securing their pick this year that they would have had to trade if it fell outside the top 10. Essentially they made the best of a shitty situation that the put themselves in.
Knicks should do the same with Carmelo. The difference is Carmelo is very well liked around the league and with his teammates. But if they have any chance to move him, they should pull the trigger. Improving their own pick this year is enough in value and if they can get future pick or young player then that's gravy. It will also be good for the franchise to move on from the Melo era and hand the keys to KP. I wouldn't worry about taking back contracts either, the Knicks aren't going to be players in free agency for a few years anyway. Pull the trigger and commit to the rebuild.
It was a good deal for both the Kings and Pelicans. NO gets the top front court in the Association.
SAC most likely gets to keep their 1st round pick as it is a top-10 protected pick and they are going into tank mode. They don't think Cousins is a franchise player on a title winner so they don't want to spend $200M+ on him, which makes sense as he was eligible for a super max contract. SAC decided there was as no way to build a championship team around Boogie so they chose to clear the deck; I actually agree with that assessment
Probably would be cheap considering he's a FA and clearly they value Hield more. What would you give if you're the Knicks? A few 2nd rounders and Kuz maybe? I'll take a small chance on him, he's been hitting 3s at least.
Why didn't the Nuggets get involved? Their package for Plumlee was pretty similar. Boogie also has a good history with Malone. They could have easily topped the New Orleans offer.
Probably would be cheap considering he's a FA and clearly they value Hield more. What would you give if you're the Knicks? A few 2nd rounders and Kuz maybe? I'll take a small chance on him, he's been hitting 3s at least.
He's a bench player on a bad team. That's an overpay.
Frankly, I think he's too emotionally frail to be a Knick.
Why didn't the Nuggets get involved? Their package for Plumlee was pretty similar. Boogie also has a good history with Malone. They could have easily topped the New Orleans offer.
Would think culture would be the biggest reason. Jokic and Cousins would be a weird fit too. It's best to let Jokic run the offense with athletic shooting wings around him. while Jokic occupies the high post/top of the key it's best to leave the low block open for cutters I think. Having 2 plodding centers wouldn't be ideal. At least Davis can play uptempo and thrives on the perimeter. Let things grow organically around him, they can pry multiple firsts with their assets.
Probably would be cheap considering he's a FA and clearly they value Hield more. What would you give if you're the Knicks? A few 2nd rounders and Kuz maybe? I'll take a small chance on him, he's been hitting 3s at least.
He's a bench player on a bad team. That's an overpay.
Frankly, I think he's too emotionally frail to be a Knick.
He's really not all that different from buddy Hield. They're comparable players in literally every way.
Probably would be cheap considering he's a FA and clearly they value Hield more. What would you give if you're the Knicks? A few 2nd rounders and Kuz maybe? I'll take a small chance on him, he's been hitting 3s at least.
He's a bench player on a bad team. That's an overpay.
Frankly, I think he's too emotionally frail to be a Knick.
He's really not all that different from buddy Hield. They're comparable players in literally every way.
If I'm the Knicks, I go after any young buy low candidates. Roll the dice and hope you get lucky
for me is the Pelicans pick being top 3 protected. Why the hell would the Kings agree to that? It's probably not likely that the pick would somehow end up in the top 3, but it has happened before.
for me is the Pelicans pick being top 3 protected. Why the hell would the Kings agree to that? It's probably not likely that the pick would somehow end up in the top 3, but it has happened before.
The only possible answers are they really wanted Boogie gone and the offers weren't as good as people think OR they really do like Buddy Hield a lot (Ahahahahahahahahahaha). I guess they also figure their own pick could be a top 3 (as they're tanking) and as long as the Pelicans pick is a lottery pick in this deep draft, that's a win too.
As crazy as this may sound, the Knicks should learn from this deal with regards to Melo. I know the return the Kings got back wasn't strong, but they accessed their current situation and moved him. As Deej and others have pointed out, there's real value to them in improving and securing their pick this year that they would have had to trade if it fell outside the top 10. Essentially they made the best of a shitty situation that the put themselves in.
Knicks should do the same with Carmelo. The difference is Carmelo is very well liked around the league and with his teammates. But if they have any chance to move him, they should pull the trigger. Improving their own pick this year is enough in value and if they can get future pick or young player then that's gravy. It will also be good for the franchise to move on from the Melo era and hand the keys to KP. I wouldn't worry about taking back contracts either, the Knicks aren't going to be players in free agency for a few years anyway. Pull the trigger and commit to the rebuild.
To be perfectly honest, I don't think the Knicks are even getting offers remotely near this level considering Melo's age, contract, NTC, the young players/returns from the teams he would actually accept a trade to, and the picks from those teams wouldn't be anywhere near the lottery. If the Knicks could do this exact same trade, I think Melo might be gone in a second.
2. Boston wanted no part of Cousins. They could have danced circles around this offer, but they didn't.
3. Boston will want no part of Melo. They are making good decisions. The team is good now, but they have a chance to build a dynasty over the next few years if they hit on their picks. I wouldn't touch melo either if I was them.
4. No excuses for Boogie now. Let's see if he can play nice in the sandbox because that front line has a ton of potential and should carry them fairly easily.
solid points felt the need to bump this so people will see it
A League Pass focus for me. Still don't know if getting the 8 seed is a lock, the Nuggets have been pretty decent. The MLE comes back into play, it is now at $8M. Maybe you get Rudy Gay to take a one year deal after the ACL tear. They're gonna hit a ceiling with how bad their wing rotation is this season (like how Toronto did).
A League Pass focus for me. Still don't know if getting the 8 seed is a lock, the Nuggets have been pretty decent. The MLE comes back into play, it is now at $8M. Maybe you get Rudy Gay to take a one year deal after the ACL tear. They're gonna hit a ceiling with how bad their wing rotation is this season (like how Toronto did).
Does ESPN (and ABC) have the ability to flex games into their tv schedule?
Smh
Pelicans didn't give up jack shit. Best frontcourt in the league, probably since I've started watching basketball. Exciting for NO
We'll also take the Lakers pick if it's out of the top three.
Well I guess we'll finally settle the cousins debate. Cats out of the bag. New setting, fellow Wildcat, no excuses.
I'm really at a loss for what the Pelicans gave up. They're usually on the losing side of trades but they didn't give up one even replacement level player (and that pick is TBD, not likely to be that high).
How the fuck will you outrebound NO? Two crazy good bigs with no real flaws of note. Cousins is a great passing big and finally has a worthy teammate. Both guys stretch the floor. Both are stud defenders (well, cousins is at times anyways, when he tries). Holiday is no slouch. NO doesn't have shit besides those 3, I guess they're relying on vets to come and play alongside those 3.
Their 2017 first rounder
76ers 2017 second rounder
No way around it being a winner for NO, but my God is their depth horrible. Who is gonna start at SG?? Frazier at the 1 and Holiday at the 2?
The NBA offices essentially owned the Hornets at the time due to their financial issues so a bit of a different situation.
Overall just crazy trade. Boogie has baggage and is a poor defender but he's easily the best offensive big man in the game IMO. It's hard to find a 4 who can fit well next to him but Davis fits that mold I think.
For the Kings, they are basically getting two firsts and a second for him lol - crazy considering players like Mozgov have gotten the same the past few years.
I like Hield but objectively how much upside does he have? He's already 22-23 years old. The New Orleans first round pick this year will probably be 10-17 so an ok but not great pick.
For the Pelicans, their depth is absolutely brutal but it's a good move IMO - puts them on the map for the first time since the Chris Paul era basically. They'll have around 16 million in cap space this summer even with Cousins (although they need to resign Holiday) which may help.
Cousins wouldnt have cost KP-plus. The Pels package wasnt worth KP alone. But before people dismiss the return, if you like Buddy this is not a bad return, especially when you factor in the impact on Sacto's natural lottery pick this season.
Had the knicks had their first round pick last year they prolly could have made this trade, but other then WH we dont have anyone that really fit what SAC was looking for and im guessing they thought Hield was a better add then WH (im not so sure). But say we took Jamal Murray like DEN did then we def could have made a similar type trade. SAC wanted a young player or two, cap relief, and a 1st. We could have done that. Who knows how Cousins would fit and in NY he would probably be a disaster but at the price NO paid he is 1000% worth the risk.
Best 4-5 combo since TD-Robinson.
That being said... Boston is a well-run organization so I assume they are not at fault here.
Sacramento is just this horribly run... smh.
2. Boston wanted no part of Cousins. They could have danced circles around this offer, but they didn't.
3. Boston will want no part of Melo. They are making good decisions. The team is good now, but they have a chance to build a dynasty over the next few years if they hit on their picks. I wouldn't touch melo either if I was them.
4. No excuses for Boogie now. Let's see if he can play nice in the sandbox because that front line has a ton of potential and should carry them fairly easily.
$100 + million. Without him no one can score. With him (not sure I would pay that kind of money for him).
Cousins wouldnt have cost KP-plus. The Pels package wasnt worth KP alone. But before people dismiss the return, if you like Buddy this is not a bad return, especially when you factor in the impact on Sacto's natural lottery pick this season.
You mean the sixers natural lottery selection?
Hield is 3 years younger than cousins. There's no way around this being mostly a contract dump. A contract dump with boogie being the expiring.
And also I'm not sure there was 0 market for boogie. Supposedly the Kings declined an offer for Drummond for cousins. This was a puke worthy Return for SAC.
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Kings view Buddy Hield as a top 5 pick, per source. In their eyes they received a top 5 talent and a top 10 pick, if Pelicans stay mediocre.
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Kings view Buddy Hield as a top 5 pick, per source. In their eyes they received a top 5 talent and a top 10 pick, if Pelicans stay mediocre.
What a joke. When they say "Kings" they mean 3 of the 15 people in Sacramento that have say in personnel moves.
Cousins is Cousins and Hield is Hield... and in no way, shape or form did the Kings get anything other than royally screwed in this trade.
Sadly for NO, they have a bunch of long term contracts. Hill, Asik, and Moore each make 8.4-11.75 next year and are signed thru 2019-20. Not sure if they can give those guys away for free (Asik I think hey cant), but they probably have to move at least two of them to hunt for another big UFA.
Cousins is Cousins and Hield is Hield... and in no way, shape or form did the Kings get anything other than royally screwed in this trade.
I think that's right. My point is only that if you LOVE Hield I could see why you dont shop this deal more. Plus Im sure they've gotten indications from asset ladden teams over the past several weeks.
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Sadly for NO, they have a bunch of long term contracts. Hill, Asik, and Moore each make 8.4-11.75 next year and are signed thru 2019-20. Not sure if they can give those guys away for free (Asik I think hey cant), but they probably have to move at least two of them to hunt for another big UFA.
Would you take on the Hill contract for free if you're the Knicks? He's young, but that's really the only thing to like about that contract now. They'll have to dole out 1sts to get rid of those deals, but at least Hill and Moore might give you rotational minutes.
I don't give the Pelicans for thinking Long term, but wouldn't it be better to trade Holiday for some low cost assets and then make a play on CP3/Lowry?
Don't get me wrong, Pelicans are in every shape and form the winner of this deal, but it's hard to see how they upgrade the roster from here.
Reke is a real could-have-been candidate. His 20-5-5 rookie season was just the 4th in history, and the other 3 were Oscar, MJ, and LeBron. Has his career turned even slightly north instead of south from there and we're probably taking about a 2-3 SG in the league. Even still, his r-a-steal #s are really solid for his whole career.
There have been rumors of Boogie being available for 2 years. Any team that had any interest would have called or spoken to them at some point. This wasn't a trade that came out of nowhere.
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but I would not assume that the trade was well shopped. There were grumbles after the SAC-PHI trade a few years ago that SAC didnt call around. And if they really like Hield, you cant match a specific player. Jamal Murray =/= Buddy Hield. Some people like one guy, some people prefer the other.
There have been rumors of Boogie being available for 2 years. Any team that had any interest would have called or spoken to them at some point. This wasn't a trade that came out of nowhere.
True that any team interested should have called. I think it is likely they were told he isnt available forever, rumors notwithstanding (and they werent strong rumors). Apparently the Kings told Boogie he wasnt being extended. I still think this could have cropped up out of nowhere. We'll see...
Apparently some deal including Brandon Ingram.
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and they chose to take NO deal. I'm curious what the Lakers offered.
Apparently some deal including Brandon Ingram.
And I read it was the other way around. Kings asked for Ingram, Lakers turned it down.
How do they not get more for Cousins? He is an incredible talent- top 10 player/ top 5 talent and still young! He has his flaws but that franchise has been dog shit around him.
Where was Washington/ Phoenix/ Orlando/ Miami ? Just a few teams off the top of my head. If you want to dump him you need to get at least 3 1st round picks coming back.
Can the Knicks benefit from this? Courtney Lee for Asik/ future 1st? New Orleans has 3 big time pieces to build around- all around the same age. I'm happy as hell the Celtics didn't get him.
why is 3 a magic number? Why speak of 1st round picks as a thing. Getting 3 1st round picks from the Spurs is not the same thing as getting 3 #1s from the Nets. Referring to 3 #1s without considering the quality of the picks is silly.
It's just really surprising to me and I blame Divac for not drumming up a market for a great player. The risk reward here is crazy. What's the risk for New Orleans? Buddy Hield becomes a star? The draft pick traded is highly likely to fall between 13-15th overall. To be able to pair the 2 best big men in the league together with a really good point guard? Pelicans went from having a bleak future to turning Hield/ Evans/ Galloway/ pick into an all nba player. These are the trades you want your team to make, I'm happy for New Orleans.
Personally, I think Cousins, in the right situation, wouldn't be an issue @ all & I expect him to resign with NOLA. Him & Davis could be a nightmare for the league for a decade.
Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract
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If you want to dump him you need to get at least 3 1st round picks coming back.
why is 3 a magic number? Why speak of 1st round picks as a thing. Getting 3 1st round picks from the Spurs is not the same thing as getting 3 #1s from the Nets. Referring to 3 #1s without considering the quality of the picks is silly.
Yes they are not all equal but 1st round picks are incredibly valuable- even just to use as trade chips. Especially with the new CBA. Look at the Goran Dragic deal- who was a pending FA, got 2 future 1sts.
You're telling me the Kings couldn't have gotten a 2019 and 2021 1st round pick in this trade? They pretty much know where the 2017 pick from NOLA is going to fall. If your dumping him for pennies, at least get a future 1st down the line and pray it becomes a really high pick.
They better hope Buddy Hield becomes a superstar
Guards are the Celtics strength and guards are who I hear are likely available at the top of the draft with the Nets pick. No Embiid in this draft.
Where do they get a big man/rim protector? Seemed obvious.
Okafor now?
this guy is not a rim protector.
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In comment 13365653 TyreeHelmet said:
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If you want to dump him you need to get at least 3 1st round picks coming back.
why is 3 a magic number? Why speak of 1st round picks as a thing. Getting 3 1st round picks from the Spurs is not the same thing as getting 3 #1s from the Nets. Referring to 3 #1s without considering the quality of the picks is silly.
Yes they are not all equal but 1st round picks are incredibly valuable- even just to use as trade chips. Especially with the new CBA. Look at the Goran Dragic deal- who was a pending FA, got 2 future 1sts.
You're telling me the Kings couldn't have gotten a 2019 and 2021 1st round pick in this trade? They pretty much know where the 2017 pick from NOLA is going to fall. If your dumping him for pennies, at least get a future 1st down the line and pray it becomes a really high pick.
They better hope Buddy Hield becomes a superstar
GSW's future #1s are not very valuable. They have some value. People are too caught up in #1s undifferentiated by team/situation.
Guards are the Celtics strength and guards are who I hear are likely available at the top of the draft with the Nets pick. No Embiid in this draft.
Where do they get a big man/rim protector? Seemed obvious.
Okafor now?
this guy is not a rim protector.
Noel, SAC's 2018 and 2019 #1s for Brooklyn's 2017 #1, PHI retains the right to push the BK pick to 2018 after seeing the lottery results. Who says no?
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necessarily who didn't want Cousins, it was Stevens and even Isiah Thomas. Random tweets from local beat guys claiming this, nothing official, but I'm surprised if true.
Guards are the Celtics strength and guards are who I hear are likely available at the top of the draft with the Nets pick. No Embiid in this draft.
Where do they get a big man/rim protector? Seemed obvious.
Okafor now?
this guy is not a rim protector.
Noel, SAC's 2018 and 2019 #1s for Brooklyn's 2017 #1, PHI retains the right to push the BK pick to 2018 after seeing the lottery results. Who says no?
that makes sense if the Celtics think they can win it all this year. I think the Celtics may think they can compete with CLE, maybe, but not GS.
I think they can get Noel in FA after the season, right? Noel is an RFA, an I'm no expert in NBA FA, but I think the Celtics can pry him away from what I've read and the Sixers likely wouldn't match an offer.
So, is it worth that to the Celtics?
My proposal has Boston delaying the Nets haul more than forgoing it. Those 2 Sac picks are going to be fantastic.
BTW, this Boogie trade just helps Philly. Philly is the big winner. Philly already has:
Embiid, Simmons, Noel, Saric, Covington (nice player), and some draft and follows. Then add in 4 lottery picks over the next 3 seasons, most of which are likely to be high lottery (PHI 2017, SAC 2018(s) and 2019, LA 2017 or 2018). And OKC's protected 2020 #1, and a net of 7 #2 picks.
If Philly is just decent at drafting/trading, they're gonna be a murderous. That's assuming Embiid is healthy enough and Simmons turns out reasonably.
Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract
SAC does not own Philly's 1st rounder next year. They owe Philly an unprotected 1st round pick in 2019.
Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract
I think you're misremembering the Philly/SAC pick situation. The Sixers enjoy the right to pick swap with the Kings in the upcoming draft, and with the Kings only 3.5 games ahead of an improving Sixers team, this swap seems more likely now that SAC will probably implode.
The Sixers own their own pick in the 2018 draft....I'd love to own the Kings 2018 but unfortunately it's not the case.
The Sixers also own the Kings 2019 pick, unprotected, along with their own.
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that SAC couldnt wait. SAC's pick goes to CHI if it is #10 or worse, and SAC was sitting right on that border. Trading Boogie guarantees that that they'll keep their #1. So it's not like getting a top 10 pick because it was probably 50-50 that they'd get it anyway (46% to keep it per BBref), but it's a significant factor. I'd be pretty shocked if they're not a top 5 lotto team now. If they manage to snag a top 3 pick, this trade actually starts to look pretty acceptable. Still a problem because the return isnt that great, but they end up ok.
Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract
SAC does not own Philly's 1st rounder next year. They owe Philly an unprotected 1st round pick in 2019.
Yes, my mistake. The right to swap with Philly is for this year, not next year.
In a perfect world, the Kings land a top three pick for which the Sixers exercise the swap, and the Lakers land the 4th pick which converts to Philly. Secure your pure PG of the future and a shooter.
Knicks should do the same with Carmelo. The difference is Carmelo is very well liked around the league and with his teammates. But if they have any chance to move him, they should pull the trigger. Improving their own pick this year is enough in value and if they can get future pick or young player then that's gravy. It will also be good for the franchise to move on from the Melo era and hand the keys to KP. I wouldn't worry about taking back contracts either, the Knicks aren't going to be players in free agency for a few years anyway. Pull the trigger and commit to the rebuild.
SAC most likely gets to keep their 1st round pick as it is a top-10 protected pick and they are going into tank mode. They don't think Cousins is a franchise player on a title winner so they don't want to spend $200M+ on him, which makes sense as he was eligible for a super max contract. SAC decided there was as no way to build a championship team around Boogie so they chose to clear the deck; I actually agree with that assessment
He's a bench player on a bad team. That's an overpay.
Frankly, I think he's too emotionally frail to be a Knick.
Would think culture would be the biggest reason. Jokic and Cousins would be a weird fit too. It's best to let Jokic run the offense with athletic shooting wings around him. while Jokic occupies the high post/top of the key it's best to leave the low block open for cutters I think. Having 2 plodding centers wouldn't be ideal. At least Davis can play uptempo and thrives on the perimeter. Let things grow organically around him, they can pry multiple firsts with their assets.
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Probably would be cheap considering he's a FA and clearly they value Hield more. What would you give if you're the Knicks? A few 2nd rounders and Kuz maybe? I'll take a small chance on him, he's been hitting 3s at least.
He's a bench player on a bad team. That's an overpay.
Frankly, I think he's too emotionally frail to be a Knick.
He's really not all that different from buddy Hield. They're comparable players in literally every way.
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In comment 13365718 giantsfan44ab said:
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Probably would be cheap considering he's a FA and clearly they value Hield more. What would you give if you're the Knicks? A few 2nd rounders and Kuz maybe? I'll take a small chance on him, he's been hitting 3s at least.
He's a bench player on a bad team. That's an overpay.
Frankly, I think he's too emotionally frail to be a Knick.
He's really not all that different from buddy Hield. They're comparable players in literally every way.
If I'm the Knicks, I go after any young buy low candidates. Roll the dice and hope you get lucky
The only possible answers are they really wanted Boogie gone and the offers weren't as good as people think OR they really do like Buddy Hield a lot (Ahahahahahahahahahaha). I guess they also figure their own pick could be a top 3 (as they're tanking) and as long as the Pelicans pick is a lottery pick in this deep draft, that's a win too.
Knicks should do the same with Carmelo. The difference is Carmelo is very well liked around the league and with his teammates. But if they have any chance to move him, they should pull the trigger. Improving their own pick this year is enough in value and if they can get future pick or young player then that's gravy. It will also be good for the franchise to move on from the Melo era and hand the keys to KP. I wouldn't worry about taking back contracts either, the Knicks aren't going to be players in free agency for a few years anyway. Pull the trigger and commit to the rebuild.
To be perfectly honest, I don't think the Knicks are even getting offers remotely near this level considering Melo's age, contract, NTC, the young players/returns from the teams he would actually accept a trade to, and the picks from those teams wouldn't be anywhere near the lottery. If the Knicks could do this exact same trade, I think Melo might be gone in a second.
2. Boston wanted no part of Cousins. They could have danced circles around this offer, but they didn't.
3. Boston will want no part of Melo. They are making good decisions. The team is good now, but they have a chance to build a dynasty over the next few years if they hit on their picks. I wouldn't touch melo either if I was them.
4. No excuses for Boogie now. Let's see if he can play nice in the sandbox because that front line has a ton of potential and should carry them fairly easily.
solid points felt the need to bump this so people will see it
Does ESPN (and ABC) have the ability to flex games into their tv schedule?