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NFT: Demarcus Cousins Traded to NO Pelicans

Anando : 2/19/2017 11:46 pm
As per Woj on twitter
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RE: Tyree,  
TyreeHelmet : 2/20/2017 10:57 am : link
In comment 13365659 Keith said:
Quote:
there clearly wasn't a lot of interest in Cousins.


It's just really surprising to me and I blame Divac for not drumming up a market for a great player. The risk reward here is crazy. What's the risk for New Orleans? Buddy Hield becomes a star? The draft pick traded is highly likely to fall between 13-15th overall. To be able to pair the 2 best big men in the league together with a really good point guard? Pelicans went from having a bleak future to turning Hield/ Evans/ Galloway/ pick into an all nba player. These are the trades you want your team to make, I'm happy for New Orleans.
Cousins is a beast on the court.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/20/2017 11:03 am : link
There's no disputing that. But he's also somewhat of a malcontent & I'm sure that scared away some potential suitors. Also, Boogie is a UFA next summer & his agent made some rumblings that he's going to test the market.

Personally, I think Cousins, in the right situation, wouldn't be an issue @ all & I expect him to resign with NOLA. Him & Davis could be a nightmare for the league for a decade.
Really important to remember  
Deej : 2/20/2017 11:06 am : link
that SAC couldnt wait. SAC's pick goes to CHI if it is #10 or worse, and SAC was sitting right on that border. Trading Boogie guarantees that that they'll keep their #1. So it's not like getting a top 10 pick because it was probably 50-50 that they'd get it anyway (46% to keep it per BBref), but it's a significant factor. I'd be pretty shocked if they're not a top 5 lotto team now. If they manage to snag a top 3 pick, this trade actually starts to look pretty acceptable. Still a problem because the return isnt that great, but they end up ok.

Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract
RE: RE: Insane Trade  
TyreeHelmet : 2/20/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13365662 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13365653 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


If you want to dump him you need to get at least 3 1st round picks coming back.





why is 3 a magic number? Why speak of 1st round picks as a thing. Getting 3 1st round picks from the Spurs is not the same thing as getting 3 #1s from the Nets. Referring to 3 #1s without considering the quality of the picks is silly.


Yes they are not all equal but 1st round picks are incredibly valuable- even just to use as trade chips. Especially with the new CBA. Look at the Goran Dragic deal- who was a pending FA, got 2 future 1sts.

You're telling me the Kings couldn't have gotten a 2019 and 2021 1st round pick in this trade? They pretty much know where the 2017 pick from NOLA is going to fall. If your dumping him for pennies, at least get a future 1st down the line and pray it becomes a really high pick.

They better hope Buddy Hield becomes a superstar
Word is it wasn't Ainge  
pjcas18 : 2/20/2017 11:10 am : link
necessarily who didn't want Cousins, it was Stevens and even Isiah Thomas. Random tweets from local beat guys claiming this, nothing official, but I'm surprised if true.

Guards are the Celtics strength and guards are who I hear are likely available at the top of the draft with the Nets pick. No Embiid in this draft.

Where do they get a big man/rim protector? Seemed obvious.

Okafor now?

this guy is not a rim protector.




RE: RE: RE: Insane Trade  
Deej : 2/20/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13365669 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13365662 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13365653 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


If you want to dump him you need to get at least 3 1st round picks coming back.





why is 3 a magic number? Why speak of 1st round picks as a thing. Getting 3 1st round picks from the Spurs is not the same thing as getting 3 #1s from the Nets. Referring to 3 #1s without considering the quality of the picks is silly.



Yes they are not all equal but 1st round picks are incredibly valuable- even just to use as trade chips. Especially with the new CBA. Look at the Goran Dragic deal- who was a pending FA, got 2 future 1sts.

You're telling me the Kings couldn't have gotten a 2019 and 2021 1st round pick in this trade? They pretty much know where the 2017 pick from NOLA is going to fall. If your dumping him for pennies, at least get a future 1st down the line and pray it becomes a really high pick.

They better hope Buddy Hield becomes a superstar


GSW's future #1s are not very valuable. They have some value. People are too caught up in #1s undifferentiated by team/situation.
RE: Word is it wasn't Ainge  
Deej : 2/20/2017 11:16 am : link
In comment 13365670 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
necessarily who didn't want Cousins, it was Stevens and even Isiah Thomas. Random tweets from local beat guys claiming this, nothing official, but I'm surprised if true.

Guards are the Celtics strength and guards are who I hear are likely available at the top of the draft with the Nets pick. No Embiid in this draft.

Where do they get a big man/rim protector? Seemed obvious.

Okafor now?

this guy is not a rim protector.





Noel, SAC's 2018 and 2019 #1s for Brooklyn's 2017 #1, PHI retains the right to push the BK pick to 2018 after seeing the lottery results. Who says no?
WCS  
giantsfan44ab : 2/20/2017 11:17 am : link
will ease Kings fans pains a little. I'm a big believer still. He's been playing really well recently in limited minutes. Kings at least move on from this debacle, but the sixers take a lot of the tanking incentive away the next few years.
RE: RE: Word is it wasn't Ainge  
pjcas18 : 2/20/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13365674 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13365670 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


necessarily who didn't want Cousins, it was Stevens and even Isiah Thomas. Random tweets from local beat guys claiming this, nothing official, but I'm surprised if true.

Guards are the Celtics strength and guards are who I hear are likely available at the top of the draft with the Nets pick. No Embiid in this draft.

Where do they get a big man/rim protector? Seemed obvious.

Okafor now?

this guy is not a rim protector.







Noel, SAC's 2018 and 2019 #1s for Brooklyn's 2017 #1, PHI retains the right to push the BK pick to 2018 after seeing the lottery results. Who says no?


that makes sense if the Celtics think they can win it all this year. I think the Celtics may think they can compete with CLE, maybe, but not GS.

I think they can get Noel in FA after the season, right? Noel is an RFA, an I'm no expert in NBA FA, but I think the Celtics can pry him away from what I've read and the Sixers likely wouldn't match an offer.

So, is it worth that to the Celtics?

I think Philly would match  
giantsfan44ab : 2/20/2017 11:25 am : link
even a max offer sheet for Noel. they aren't paying anyone right now.
Im not sure you want to try to come up with the offer  
Deej : 2/20/2017 11:35 am : link
that Philly wont match. I think anything reasonable they match and look to trade Noel or Okafor in time.

My proposal has Boston delaying the Nets haul more than forgoing it. Those 2 Sac picks are going to be fantastic.

BTW, this Boogie trade just helps Philly. Philly is the big winner. Philly already has:

Embiid, Simmons, Noel, Saric, Covington (nice player), and some draft and follows. Then add in 4 lottery picks over the next 3 seasons, most of which are likely to be high lottery (PHI 2017, SAC 2018(s) and 2019, LA 2017 or 2018). And OKC's protected 2020 #1, and a net of 7 #2 picks.

If Philly is just decent at drafting/trading, they're gonna be a murderous. That's assuming Embiid is healthy enough and Simmons turns out reasonably.
RE: Really important to remember  
TyreeHelmet : 2/20/2017 11:40 am : link
In comment 13365667 Deej said:
Quote:
that SAC couldnt wait. SAC's pick goes to CHI if it is #10 or worse, and SAC was sitting right on that border. Trading Boogie guarantees that that they'll keep their #1. So it's not like getting a top 10 pick because it was probably 50-50 that they'd get it anyway (46% to keep it per BBref), but it's a significant factor. I'd be pretty shocked if they're not a top 5 lotto team now. If they manage to snag a top 3 pick, this trade actually starts to look pretty acceptable. Still a problem because the return isnt that great, but they end up ok.

Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract


SAC does not own Philly's 1st rounder next year. They owe Philly an unprotected 1st round pick in 2019.
RE: Really important to remember  
BurberryManning : 2/20/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13365667 Deej said:
Quote:
that SAC couldnt wait. SAC's pick goes to CHI if it is #10 or worse, and SAC was sitting right on that border. Trading Boogie guarantees that that they'll keep their #1. So it's not like getting a top 10 pick because it was probably 50-50 that they'd get it anyway (46% to keep it per BBref), but it's a significant factor. I'd be pretty shocked if they're not a top 5 lotto team now. If they manage to snag a top 3 pick, this trade actually starts to look pretty acceptable. Still a problem because the return isnt that great, but they end up ok.

Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract


I think you're misremembering the Philly/SAC pick situation. The Sixers enjoy the right to pick swap with the Kings in the upcoming draft, and with the Kings only 3.5 games ahead of an improving Sixers team, this swap seems more likely now that SAC will probably implode.

The Sixers own their own pick in the 2018 draft....I'd love to own the Kings 2018 but unfortunately it's not the case.

The Sixers also own the Kings 2019 pick, unprotected, along with their own.
RE: RE: Really important to remember  
Deej : 2/20/2017 11:42 am : link
In comment 13365685 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13365667 Deej said:


Quote:


that SAC couldnt wait. SAC's pick goes to CHI if it is #10 or worse, and SAC was sitting right on that border. Trading Boogie guarantees that that they'll keep their #1. So it's not like getting a top 10 pick because it was probably 50-50 that they'd get it anyway (46% to keep it per BBref), but it's a significant factor. I'd be pretty shocked if they're not a top 5 lotto team now. If they manage to snag a top 3 pick, this trade actually starts to look pretty acceptable. Still a problem because the return isnt that great, but they end up ok.

Say they end up with Ball/Smith running the PnR with WCS and kicking out to Hield. Isnt that a decent plan (Im a WCS believer)? They have Philly's #1 next year (for their own), and should be able to get a nice asset right now for Collison, who is on a cheap $5 million contract



SAC does not own Philly's 1st rounder next year. They owe Philly an unprotected 1st round pick in 2019.


Yes, my mistake. The right to swap with Philly is for this year, not next year.
Colangelo is being lauded for not pulling the trigger on the Jah deal  
BurberryManning : 2/20/2017 11:46 am : link
to NO. If his return was only going to be a top-20 protected 1st rounder it made much more sense to keep him and allow the Boogie deal to passively improve the Sixers position more so (not that Colangelo knew it would happen).

In a perfect world, the Kings land a top three pick for which the Sixers exercise the swap, and the Lakers land the 4th pick which converts to Philly. Secure your pure PG of the future and a shooter.
If I was Philly I'd take the PG  
Deej : 2/20/2017 11:53 am : link
and Jackson. Yes he is a rough fit with Simmons due to shooting, but I'd just take the risk. Wouldnt blame them for going Isaac or Monk or Tatum.
Now back to the KNICKS!  
Carl in CT : 2/20/2017 11:54 am : link
Oh wait, they are not doing anything.
Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 2/20/2017 12:00 pm : link
As crazy as this may sound, the Knicks should learn from this deal with regards to Melo. I know the return the Kings got back wasn't strong, but they accessed their current situation and moved him. As Deej and others have pointed out, there's real value to them in improving and securing their pick this year that they would have had to trade if it fell outside the top 10. Essentially they made the best of a shitty situation that the put themselves in.

Knicks should do the same with Carmelo. The difference is Carmelo is very well liked around the league and with his teammates. But if they have any chance to move him, they should pull the trigger. Improving their own pick this year is enough in value and if they can get future pick or young player then that's gravy. It will also be good for the franchise to move on from the Melo era and hand the keys to KP. I wouldn't worry about taking back contracts either, the Knicks aren't going to be players in free agency for a few years anyway. Pull the trigger and commit to the rebuild.
I'm going to be the contrarian on this  
dpinzow : 2/20/2017 12:13 pm : link
It was a good deal for both the Kings and Pelicans. NO gets the top front court in the Association.

SAC most likely gets to keep their 1st round pick as it is a top-10 protected pick and they are going into tank mode. They don't think Cousins is a franchise player on a title winner so they don't want to spend $200M+ on him, which makes sense as he was eligible for a super max contract. SAC decided there was as no way to build a championship team around Boogie so they chose to clear the deck; I actually agree with that assessment
Mclemore on the trade block  
giantsfan44ab : 2/20/2017 12:17 pm : link
Probably would be cheap considering he's a FA and clearly they value Hield more. What would you give if you're the Knicks? A few 2nd rounders and Kuz maybe? I'll take a small chance on him, he's been hitting 3s at least.
Denver  
TyreeHelmet : 2/20/2017 12:18 pm : link
Why didn't the Nuggets get involved? Their package for Plumlee was pretty similar. Boogie also has a good history with Malone. They could have easily topped the New Orleans offer.
Collision and afflalo on the block too.  
giantsfan44ab : 2/20/2017 12:18 pm : link
They're clearing house chip Kelly style.
RE: Mclemore on the trade block  
Deej : 2/20/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13365718 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Probably would be cheap considering he's a FA and clearly they value Hield more. What would you give if you're the Knicks? A few 2nd rounders and Kuz maybe? I'll take a small chance on him, he's been hitting 3s at least.


He's a bench player on a bad team. That's an overpay.

Frankly, I think he's too emotionally frail to be a Knick.
RE: Denver  
giantsfan44ab : 2/20/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13365721 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Why didn't the Nuggets get involved? Their package for Plumlee was pretty similar. Boogie also has a good history with Malone. They could have easily topped the New Orleans offer.


Would think culture would be the biggest reason. Jokic and Cousins would be a weird fit too. It's best to let Jokic run the offense with athletic shooting wings around him. while Jokic occupies the high post/top of the key it's best to leave the low block open for cutters I think. Having 2 plodding centers wouldn't be ideal. At least Davis can play uptempo and thrives on the perimeter. Let things grow organically around him, they can pry multiple firsts with their assets.
RE: RE: Mclemore on the trade block  
giantsfan44ab : 2/20/2017 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13365723 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13365718 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Probably would be cheap considering he's a FA and clearly they value Hield more. What would you give if you're the Knicks? A few 2nd rounders and Kuz maybe? I'll take a small chance on him, he's been hitting 3s at least.



He's a bench player on a bad team. That's an overpay.

Frankly, I think he's too emotionally frail to be a Knick.


He's really not all that different from buddy Hield. They're comparable players in literally every way.
RE: RE: RE: Mclemore on the trade block  
TyreeHelmet : 2/20/2017 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13365734 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13365723 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13365718 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Probably would be cheap considering he's a FA and clearly they value Hield more. What would you give if you're the Knicks? A few 2nd rounders and Kuz maybe? I'll take a small chance on him, he's been hitting 3s at least.



He's a bench player on a bad team. That's an overpay.

Frankly, I think he's too emotionally frail to be a Knick.



He's really not all that different from buddy Hield. They're comparable players in literally every way.


If I'm the Knicks, I go after any young buy low candidates. Roll the dice and hope you get lucky
The strangest part  
ryanmkeane : 2/20/2017 2:24 pm : link
for me is the Pelicans pick being top 3 protected. Why the hell would the Kings agree to that? It's probably not likely that the pick would somehow end up in the top 3, but it has happened before.
RE: The strangest part  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2/20/2017 3:02 pm : link
In comment 13365849 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
for me is the Pelicans pick being top 3 protected. Why the hell would the Kings agree to that? It's probably not likely that the pick would somehow end up in the top 3, but it has happened before.


The only possible answers are they really wanted Boogie gone and the offers weren't as good as people think OR they really do like Buddy Hield a lot (Ahahahahahahahahahaha). I guess they also figure their own pick could be a top 3 (as they're tanking) and as long as the Pelicans pick is a lottery pick in this deep draft, that's a win too.
RE: Knicks  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 2/20/2017 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13365701 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
As crazy as this may sound, the Knicks should learn from this deal with regards to Melo. I know the return the Kings got back wasn't strong, but they accessed their current situation and moved him. As Deej and others have pointed out, there's real value to them in improving and securing their pick this year that they would have had to trade if it fell outside the top 10. Essentially they made the best of a shitty situation that the put themselves in.

Knicks should do the same with Carmelo. The difference is Carmelo is very well liked around the league and with his teammates. But if they have any chance to move him, they should pull the trigger. Improving their own pick this year is enough in value and if they can get future pick or young player then that's gravy. It will also be good for the franchise to move on from the Melo era and hand the keys to KP. I wouldn't worry about taking back contracts either, the Knicks aren't going to be players in free agency for a few years anyway. Pull the trigger and commit to the rebuild.


To be perfectly honest, I don't think the Knicks are even getting offers remotely near this level considering Melo's age, contract, NTC, the young players/returns from the teams he would actually accept a trade to, and the picks from those teams wouldn't be anywhere near the lottery. If the Knicks could do this exact same trade, I think Melo might be gone in a second.
RE: This is what I learned:  
Tuckrule : 2/20/2017 4:35 pm : link
In comment 13365583 Keith said:
Quote:
1. There wasn't a huge market for Cousins.

2. Boston wanted no part of Cousins. They could have danced circles around this offer, but they didn't.

3. Boston will want no part of Melo. They are making good decisions. The team is good now, but they have a chance to build a dynasty over the next few years if they hit on their picks. I wouldn't touch melo either if I was them.

4. No excuses for Boogie now. Let's see if he can play nice in the sandbox because that front line has a ton of potential and should carry them fairly easily.


solid points felt the need to bump this so people will see it
Excited to see this team play out now  
giantsfan44ab : 2/20/2017 5:15 pm : link
A League Pass focus for me. Still don't know if getting the 8 seed is a lock, the Nuggets have been pretty decent. The MLE comes back into play, it is now at $8M. Maybe you get Rudy Gay to take a one year deal after the ACL tear. They're gonna hit a ceiling with how bad their wing rotation is this season (like how Toronto did).
RE: Excited to see this team play out now  
JayBinQueens : 2/20/2017 7:00 pm : link
In comment 13365975 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
A League Pass focus for me. Still don't know if getting the 8 seed is a lock, the Nuggets have been pretty decent. The MLE comes back into play, it is now at $8M. Maybe you get Rudy Gay to take a one year deal after the ACL tear. They're gonna hit a ceiling with how bad their wing rotation is this season (like how Toronto did).


Does ESPN (and ABC) have the ability to flex games into their tv schedule?
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