According to Over The Cap and most other sources, they are between 30 and 35 million under the cap now, with more to be added by the league. The have not renegotiated a single contract. In the next few years the cap is supposed to be significantly raised by the league.
You are correct that they're not in any cap difficulty. The issue is that the market is competitive. Plenty of teams have more space than they do.
Should not get the tag listen if they have a number and he has a number beyond these then let him test the waters. If we tag him we gain nothing because it handcuffs us from improving the team. JPP is a good player but he will never be the great player we all hoped for that's the reality of his career. Why pay a good player great player money who we have seen can't make the next step into greatness. Hankins will sign for much less one position solved sure loosing JPP is not the best thing for the team but we always make tough choices in life.
Pierre-Paul proved this past season that he’s worth a lucrative investment. Even though a good chunk of his sacks came against the Browns and Bears (two bad teams), he produced consistent pressure off the edge and re-established himself as an effective run defender. He’s not among the league’s best pass-rushers, but he’s still a force to be reckoned with each week for opposing offenses.
So . . he's worth a lucrative contract -- even though a good chunk of his sacks came against the Browns and Bears (two bad teams).
And even IF he produced consistent pressure off the edge . . . (which I think is debatable)
. . . and re-established himself as an effective run defender . . . (True, and a nice plus when you get it, but that's NOT why you pay a DE big money -- they get that for pass rushing).
. . . He’s not among the league’s best pass-rushers . . . (Agreed. He's not a guy who's going to dominate a game by himself anymore. I don't recall him being consistently double-teamed.) . . . but he’s still a force to be reckoned with each week for opposing offenses.
Huh???
How the hell can he be "Not among the best," and yet "a force" ?? How do those two ideas mesh in the same sentence? He was handled fairly easily in many games. And then there are the games he misses to injury every season.
Raanan's synopsis SHOULD read: JPP is a very good, but not great DE, who wants "great DE" money. And the Giants will likely pay it because there are no better alternatives.
I'd be happy to see JPP back, BUT even for the right deal or on the Franchise tag, he'll likely be being overpaid for the production he seems capable of at this point in his career. That's fine -- sometimes you have to over pay -- but it does NOT address a pass rush that didn't get there enough last season even when JPP played.
The Giants will likely STILL need another good pass rusher they can throw into the mix with OV and JPP on passing downs before the pass rush is truly a game-changer the way it was in the Strahan/Tuck/Osi days. Vernon and JPP alone were NOT enough. They don't let you play Cleveland every week.
Pierre-Paul proved this past season that he’s worth a lucrative investment. Even though a good chunk of his sacks came against the Browns and Bears (two bad teams), he produced consistent pressure off the edge and re-established himself as an effective run defender. He’s not among the league’s best pass-rushers, but he’s still a force to be reckoned with each week for opposing offenses.
So . . he's worth a lucrative contract -- even though a good chunk of his sacks came against the Browns and Bears (two bad teams).
And even IF he produced consistent pressure off the edge . . . (which I think is debatable)
. . . and re-established himself as an effective run defender . . . (True, and a nice plus when you get it, but that's NOT why you pay a DE big money -- they get that for pass rushing).
. . . He’s not among the league’s best pass-rushers . . . (Agreed. He's not a guy who's going to dominate a game by himself anymore. I don't recall him being consistently double-teamed.) . . . but he’s still a force to be reckoned with each week for opposing offenses.
Huh???
How the hell can he be "Not among the best," and yet "a force" ?? How do those two ideas mesh in the same sentence? He was handled fairly easily in many games. And then there are the games he misses to injury every season.
Raanan's synopsis SHOULD read: JPP is a very good, but not great DE, who wants "great DE" money. And the Giants will likely pay it because there are no better alternatives.
I'd be happy to see JPP back, BUT even for the right deal or on the Franchise tag, he'll likely be being overpaid for the production he seems capable of at this point in his career. That's fine -- sometimes you have to over pay -- but it does NOT address a pass rush that didn't get there enough last season even when JPP played.
The Giants will likely STILL need another good pass rusher they can throw into the mix with OV and JPP on passing downs before the pass rush is truly a game-changer the way it was in the Strahan/Tuck/Osi days. Vernon and JPP alone were NOT enough. They don't let you play Cleveland every week.
Totally disagree, David. JPP is still best defensive player on this team (although Collins is coming on). The BS about the bears and browns in just that. JPP was getting better as the season wore on. The week before his injury he was the defensive player of the week. He's a top 10 DE and if you don't pay him as such the team will not be as good next year.
Way too many posts on here guessing deal terms when Â
Doesn't mean that much. You wouldn't determine the selling price of a house by taking the average price from the first 5 offers. Whoever bid the highest would get the house and the value of bids 2-5 wouldn't matter.
My first thought was along these lines as well. But it wasn't an average of the top bids of perspective buyers; it was an average of the guesses of what the top bid would be. There's more logic to using the average in this than in your example.
Still, it's only 5 individuals, and I wonder how they are chosen. Wouldn't the agents have motivation to go high in their valuation? And it seems the team executive would also have motivation to go high if his team isn't in the market or low if it is.
RE: Way too many posts on here guessing deal terms when Â
how the loss of JPP in the last 5 games affected Vernon.
Vernon, despite a very slow start with only a half sack in the first seven games, caught fire in the next five games with seven sacks in the five game stretch from Philly to Steelers. In the last five games including the Pacers, without JPP, Vernon managed only one half sack.
This shouldn't be surprising since the offense can only double team one DE, and that DE was most often JPP.
I completely disagree with the idea that the franchise can be improved by stealing from the defense to give to the offense. The defense creates turnovers which can lead to quick scores by the offense and the defense establishes field position so that the offense has a shorter field and is not dangerously near its own goal line.
1. JPP signs a long term deal. Hankins is not re-signed. Keenan Robinson returns. NYG signs 1 FA OL, let's say Whitworth. Giants sign Stephan Paea as a 3 Tech DT one year deal.
2. JPP franchised, Hankins returns on long term deal, Giants sign a OG let's say Larry Warford to long term deal. Flowers stays at LT.
3. JPP walks, Hankins, Robinson return for multi year deals, NYG signs DE Taylor, OT Reiff and OG Zietler, WR Aiken.
My thought behind these scenarios is, we can't do it all with FA but have immediate needs. I love JPP and want him back but we have to fix the O Line and the strength of FA is in the OG position. Many good ones and I think the best fit long term for an OT is Reiff. He is versatile.
What scenario would you choose?
Option 3 IMO is an example of what we could do in FA if we let JPP walk.
I could live with option 3, who is the DE Taylor
you mention though?
You are correct that they're not in any cap difficulty. The issue is that the market is competitive. Plenty of teams have more space than they do.
Pierre-Paul proved this past season that he’s worth a lucrative investment. Even though a good chunk of his sacks came against the Browns and Bears (two bad teams), he produced consistent pressure off the edge and re-established himself as an effective run defender. He’s not among the league’s best pass-rushers, but he’s still a force to be reckoned with each week for opposing offenses.
So . . he's worth a lucrative contract -- even though a good chunk of his sacks came against the Browns and Bears (two bad teams).
And even IF he produced consistent pressure off the edge . . . (which I think is debatable)
. . . and re-established himself as an effective run defender . . . (True, and a nice plus when you get it, but that's NOT why you pay a DE big money -- they get that for pass rushing).
. . . He’s not among the league’s best pass-rushers . . . (Agreed. He's not a guy who's going to dominate a game by himself anymore. I don't recall him being consistently double-teamed.) . . . but he’s still a force to be reckoned with each week for opposing offenses.
Huh???
How the hell can he be "Not among the best," and yet "a force" ?? How do those two ideas mesh in the same sentence? He was handled fairly easily in many games. And then there are the games he misses to injury every season.
Raanan's synopsis SHOULD read: JPP is a very good, but not great DE, who wants "great DE" money. And the Giants will likely pay it because there are no better alternatives.
I'd be happy to see JPP back, BUT even for the right deal or on the Franchise tag, he'll likely be being overpaid for the production he seems capable of at this point in his career. That's fine -- sometimes you have to over pay -- but it does NOT address a pass rush that didn't get there enough last season even when JPP played.
The Giants will likely STILL need another good pass rusher they can throw into the mix with OV and JPP on passing downs before the pass rush is truly a game-changer the way it was in the Strahan/Tuck/Osi days. Vernon and JPP alone were NOT enough. They don't let you play Cleveland every week.
Quote:
Pierre-Paul proved this past season that he’s worth a lucrative investment. Even though a good chunk of his sacks came against the Browns and Bears (two bad teams), he produced consistent pressure off the edge and re-established himself as an effective run defender. He’s not among the league’s best pass-rushers, but he’s still a force to be reckoned with each week for opposing offenses.
So . . he's worth a lucrative contract -- even though a good chunk of his sacks came against the Browns and Bears (two bad teams).
And even IF he produced consistent pressure off the edge . . . (which I think is debatable)
. . . and re-established himself as an effective run defender . . . (True, and a nice plus when you get it, but that's NOT why you pay a DE big money -- they get that for pass rushing).
. . . He’s not among the league’s best pass-rushers . . . (Agreed. He's not a guy who's going to dominate a game by himself anymore. I don't recall him being consistently double-teamed.) . . . but he’s still a force to be reckoned with each week for opposing offenses.
Huh???
How the hell can he be "Not among the best," and yet "a force" ?? How do those two ideas mesh in the same sentence? He was handled fairly easily in many games. And then there are the games he misses to injury every season.
Raanan's synopsis SHOULD read: JPP is a very good, but not great DE, who wants "great DE" money. And the Giants will likely pay it because there are no better alternatives.
I'd be happy to see JPP back, BUT even for the right deal or on the Franchise tag, he'll likely be being overpaid for the production he seems capable of at this point in his career. That's fine -- sometimes you have to over pay -- but it does NOT address a pass rush that didn't get there enough last season even when JPP played.
The Giants will likely STILL need another good pass rusher they can throw into the mix with OV and JPP on passing downs before the pass rush is truly a game-changer the way it was in the Strahan/Tuck/Osi days. Vernon and JPP alone were NOT enough. They don't let you play Cleveland every week.
Totally disagree, David. JPP is still best defensive player on this team (although Collins is coming on). The BS about the bears and browns in just that. JPP was getting better as the season wore on. The week before his injury he was the defensive player of the week. He's a top 10 DE and if you don't pay him as such the team will not be as good next year.
If Giants want him then that's the cost or they FT him.
Why is there more to discuss?
My first thought was along these lines as well. But it wasn't an average of the top bids of perspective buyers; it was an average of the guesses of what the top bid would be. There's more logic to using the average in this than in your example.
Still, it's only 5 individuals, and I wonder how they are chosen. Wouldn't the agents have motivation to go high in their valuation? And it seems the team executive would also have motivation to go high if his team isn't in the market or low if it is.
If Giants want him then that's the cost or they FT him.
Why is there more to discuss?
How much you want to bet he doesn't get more than 75 million total and 40 million guaranteed, he wont come close to Vernon's 52 million guaranteed.
Vernon, despite a very slow start with only a half sack in the first seven games, caught fire in the next five games with seven sacks in the five game stretch from Philly to Steelers. In the last five games including the Pacers, without JPP, Vernon managed only one half sack.
This shouldn't be surprising since the offense can only double team one DE, and that DE was most often JPP.
I completely disagree with the idea that the franchise can be improved by stealing from the defense to give to the offense. The defense creates turnovers which can lead to quick scores by the offense and the defense establishes field position so that the offense has a shorter field and is not dangerously near its own goal line.
Quote:
1. JPP signs a long term deal. Hankins is not re-signed. Keenan Robinson returns. NYG signs 1 FA OL, let's say Whitworth. Giants sign Stephan Paea as a 3 Tech DT one year deal.
2. JPP franchised, Hankins returns on long term deal, Giants sign a OG let's say Larry Warford to long term deal. Flowers stays at LT.
3. JPP walks, Hankins, Robinson return for multi year deals, NYG signs DE Taylor, OT Reiff and OG Zietler, WR Aiken.
My thought behind these scenarios is, we can't do it all with FA but have immediate needs. I love JPP and want him back but we have to fix the O Line and the strength of FA is in the OG position. Many good ones and I think the best fit long term for an OT is Reiff. He is versatile.
What scenario would you choose?
Option 3 IMO is an example of what we could do in FA if we let JPP walk.
I could live with option 3, who is the DE Taylor
you mention though?