By another team for more than he is prob worth? Or does he think he is worth more than teams are willing to oat right away and stays on the market for a few weeks/months?
I expect his agent to break off all negotiations with the Giants and begin negotiating with other clubs. The agent might bring back an offer at the 11th hour to the Giants giving them a chance to match an offer, but once FA officially starts, he'll have a contract. Whether we match an offer or another club prevails, we will all know where JPP will play at the start of free agency.
The second FA starts Cowboys are going to be all in on JPP. They want him real bad and just cleared cap space. Anyone want to see him go after Eli against whoever they put at OLT? Which is why if they can't get a deal done before FA starts, franchising him one more year makes sense. Yea $17M is to much but it buys time and keeps him off the Cowboys.
I expect his agent to break off all negotiations with the Giants and begin negotiating with other clubs. The agent might bring back an offer at the 11th hour to the Giants giving them a chance to match an offer, but once FA officially starts, he'll have a contract. Whether we match an offer or another club prevails, we will all know where JPP will play at the start of free agency.
Excellent analysis. Watch out for Jacksonville. They now have an incredible $71M in cap space. JPP also lives in Florida, which has no state income tax. He also spoke highly of Coughlin.
The second FA starts Cowboys are going to be all in on JPP. They want him real bad and just cleared cap space. Anyone want to see him go after Eli against whoever they put at OLT? Which is why if they can't get a deal done before FA starts, franchising him one more year makes sense. Yea $17M is to much but it buys time and keeps him off the Cowboys.
Stop being scared of Dallas. They do not have the cap space to afford JPP. They cleared a bunch of space yesterday just to get under the cap. Even with a cut/trade of Romo, they only have an estimated $7.5M in cap space, take out the ~$4.5-5M estimated rookie pool and that leaves a max of $3M in space. How are they giving JPP $15M/year? It's not possible to back-load a contract that much, not to mention that they don't have the space down the road because of the restructures.
That would give him the OV deal. Tag him tell them to give him that OV deal and give us draft picks if you really want him that bad... Which they wont, which means 4for60 tops or tag, take it or leave it JPP.
That would give him the OV deal. Tag him tell them to give him that OV deal and give us draft picks if you really want him that bad... Which they wont, which means 4for60 tops or tag, take it or leave it JPP.
Yes, but will the Giants tag JPP? Somebody said that they had a "gentleman's agreement" with JPP not to use the tag again. Even if they do, that obviously doesn't prevent them from using it. But do we really want an unhappy player, especially at $17M?
On the other hand, do we really want to let him go for nothing, except maybe some comp picks next year. One solution might be to use the tag, and then negotiate a steep discount on picks from the two #1's we'd otherwise be entitled to as compensation.
who was the last big name FA that didn't sign within 24-48 hours? If JPP isn't tagged, he'll have a deal worked out by the time the signing period begins.
LOL!
mdthedream : 8:48 am : link : reply
Here how it works you give him a offer about 15m per and its a sign it or we tag you. End of story we have all the cards.
We do not hold all the cards.....If we tag him, supposedly there was an agreement with the Giants, when he signed the 10M deal, that they wouldn't....so if they do, he will just not sign the deal.....by doing so, it puts that franchise cap money in limbo, and it can't be used for other free agents, and that will hamper any other moves that Reese wants to make in FAcy....and he wouldn't have to show up for OTA's if he doesn't sign the tag.....to get 17M for one year? Who is holding all the cards?
Jax and Cleveland are the only two teams
est1986 : 9:03 am : link : reply
That would give him the OV deal. Tag him tell them to give him that OV deal and give us draft picks if you really want him that bad... Which they wont, which means 4for60 tops or tag, take it or leave it JPP.
There is no take it or leave it here....will the tag be non exclusive or exclusive.....if the former, no team is paying him and giving up draft picks....if the latter, unless the Giants break the bank, he will not sign.....and if they do break the bank, you saw what this line did as a pass rushing unit last year....it would be one of the highest paid DL's in the NFL, and yet not one of the best pass rushing lines.....
And the first time JPP gets injured, BBI will implode....
This is a huge decision for Reese and the front office....resources have to be allocated to improve the whole team.....you can't have all-stars at every position.....do you use 17M on one position, when if you get the right guys, it can take care of two?
The decisions Reese makes this season, decides whether this team continues to go forward, or hits a bump in the road this year......hope he makes the right ones....
'Here how it works you give him a offer about $15M per and its a sign it or we tag you. End of story we have all the cards.'
It's really pretty obvious and simple. This is almost certainly how it will play out. Although we may look to trade him as well. What isn't happening is the Giants letting him walk away for nothing when we have options on his rights and cap room to maneuver.
If the Giants have that gentleman's agreement....He is probably as good as gone because the threat of a tag is the arrow in the quiver that allows the Giants to get a slightly below market deal for him.
Someone looking to make a big splash will go all in on JPP in a way the Giants won't.
it would be totally foolish for them to do so. They have both corners and Barry Church the safety as Free Agents this year. As far as I can tell Dallas has really very little chance to sign JPP.
Noone is going to write a contract JPP will sign plus give us 2 1st rounders.
And the transition tag offers us a right of refusal but no compensation so that's a no go.
It's the franchise tag or nothing.
There are two franchise tags: exclusive and non-exclusive.
Exclusive means no one else can even negotiate with the player but the value is slightly higher. I believe the Broncos used this on Von Miller.
Non-exclusive is the "traditional" tag that guarantees a team compensation (two firsts) if they elect not to match a contract that the player agrees to with another team.
If the Giants tag JPP, it will be the non-exclusive type.
That would give him the OV deal. Tag him tell them to give him that OV deal and give us draft picks if you really want him that bad... Which they wont, which means 4for60 tops or tag, take it or leave it JPP.
Yes, but will the Giants tag JPP? Somebody said that they had a "gentleman's agreement" with JPP not to use the tag again. Even if they do, that obviously doesn't prevent them from using it. But do we really want an unhappy player, especially at $17M?
On the other hand, do we really want to let him go for nothing, except maybe some comp picks next year. One solution might be to use the tag, and then negotiate a steep discount on picks from the two #1's we'd otherwise be entitled to as compensation.
Not like he is going to sit out the season.. If he under performs and creates more questions than answers he will only put himself further and further from that OV type deal.. Will he really not sign a deal that's fair toward both sides, and seek that max deal he can.. idk, we shall see.
pear cider that's made from 100% pears: JPP is going to be tagged. He is not going hit the open market. Whether or not a long term deal is done before March 9th or after March 9th, I don't know, but a long term deal will be worked out. I don't envision him missing any training camp and playing the season on the franchise tag.
Noone is going to write a contract JPP will sign plus give us 2 1st rounders.
Really? How do you know that. Besides, the non-exclusive tag is just a bit over 12 million. You tag him and IF another team wants to give him big bucks AND 2 picks fine. If not, we either sign him to a long term deal or a 1 year 12 million deal.
Noone is going to write a contract JPP will sign plus give us 2 1st rounders.
And the transition tag offers us a right of refusal but no compensation so that's a no go.
It's the franchise tag or nothing.
non-exclusive.. you can negotiate something less than two first rounders.. someone might give up one first rounder and pay him that OV deal.. that's why you give him your first and final offer/deal and tell him its that our the tag OR tell your agent to find you a team willing to part with a pick.
The second FA starts Cowboys are going to be all in on JPP. They want him real bad and just cleared cap space. Anyone want to see him go after Eli against whoever they put at OLT? Which is why if they can't get a deal done before FA starts, franchising him one more year makes sense. Yea $17M is to much but it buys time and keeps him off the Cowboys.
.
They don't have money, they need to clear cap space, like release Romo for example.
That would give him the OV deal. Tag him tell them to give him that OV deal and give us draft picks if you really want him that bad... Which they wont, which means 4for60 tops or tag, take it or leave it JPP.
Yes, but will the Giants tag JPP? Somebody said that they had a "gentleman's agreement" with JPP not to use the tag again. Even if they do, that obviously doesn't prevent them from using it. But do we really want an unhappy player, especially at $17M?
On the other hand, do we really want to let him go for nothing, except maybe some comp picks next year. One solution might be to use the tag, and then negotiate a steep discount on picks from the two #1's we'd otherwise be entitled to as compensation.
Not like he is going to sit out the season.. If he under performs and creates more questions than answers he will only put himself further and further from that OV type deal.. Will he really not sign a deal that's fair toward both sides, and seek that max deal he can.. idk, we shall see.
What's fair to both sides??
Who is the better, more talented, and toughest to defend player...JPP or Vernon??
Answer: JPP
Who is younger and more durable player and a safer bet to be serviceable and performing at 100% in 4 years??
Answer: Vernon
What's fair to JPP based on the above??
$17.5 - $18,000,000 per year
What's fair to the Giants based on the fact they want to pay a superior player...that is talented but might be an injury risk and not at 100% at the end of the contract??
Answer: A shorter contract with less guaranteed money...
The Giants are most likely prepared to franchise JPP at $17,000,000 this is obvious...because even if they don't want JPP...or don't want to sign him...the turn around and flip this asset for a minimum of a #1 and #4 draft pick...the dumbest thing the Giants can do now is do nothing...and then watch JPP sign with Dallas and terrorize Eli for the next 4 years...
In my opinion...a deal will get done if they simply offer a 2nd guaranteed year following the franchise year...so the deal is this:
4 Years $70,000,000
With 50% guaranteed or $35,000,000
That is a fair deal since the better player gets more money then the inferior one on an annual basis...
The deal is fair to the Giants since it allows them to part ways in the event JPP can't stay on the field...
I would further add playing time and performance incentives after Year 2, 3, 4
Year 2
If JPP starts 14 games he earns another guaranteed year: $17,0000,000
Year 3
If JPP starts 14 games and gets 12 sacks he earns another guaranteed year: $17,000,000
Year 4
I would also throw in an option year based on exceptional performance:
If JPP starts 14 games and gets 14 sacks he earns another guaranteed year: $17,000,000
This is the correct way to structure a contract that pays a superior player...while protecting the time and allowing them to cut ties quickly if he can't stay on the field...Bottom line it amounts to:
2 Years $35,000,000...JPP will only see the backend of the contract if he can stay on the field and perform
With $35,000,000 guaranteed...fair to both sides...cause JPP will earn more then Vernon if he performs...the Giants get out of the deal after 2 years if he doesn't...that's how you cut a deal that's fair to both sides...
The second FA starts Cowboys are going to be all in on JPP. They want him real bad and just cleared cap space. Anyone want to see him go after Eli against whoever they put at OLT? Which is why if they can't get a deal done before FA starts, franchising him one more year makes sense. Yea $17M is to much but it buys time and keeps him off the Cowboys.
.
They don't have money, they need to clear cap space, like release Romo for example.
I hope all of you no way Dallas guys are correct. They're going to release Romo, not sure would the cap implication will be. There's a lot of buzz in Dallas (I go there frequently on business) about the Cowboys in particular Jerrah passionately wanting to go all out to land JPP. In addition to releasing Romo they can restructure Witten, Lee and others. By now we've all seen teams work their magic to make cap space. Tannenbaum use to take the Jets from cap hell to cap nirvana in seemingly a day. I'm not aware of the Cowboys having an Abrams like Captologist, although I'm sure they have someone behind the scenes running the calcs. As much as I like JPP, I'd be fine with him going to someplace like Jax. I just don't want to see him him more than once every four years.
'Here how it works you give him a offer about $15M per and its a sign it or we tag you. End of story we have all the cards.'
It's really pretty obvious and simple. This is almost certainly how it will play out. Although we may look to trade him as well. What isn't happening is the Giants letting him walk away for nothing when we have options on his rights and cap room to maneuver.
I like this. Add to the fact that NYG is a better team to play on and has a much better chance to win a superbowl than Cleveland and Jacksonville. It is a win/win situation for both JPP and NYG.
The Giants may not be willing to pay it. Tagging is stupid, IMO. he'll laugh all the way to the bank, just as he did after blowing his hand up.
The bottom line is that JPP and his agent already know what kind of deal he's going to get. they'll probably try to play the Giants vs others to squeeze a little more out, but he'll get his deal rather quickly.
High cap hit, but not too far off his value point.
One-year instead of long term, could be in the same boat next year.
He will be upset if he gets tagged..? if that counts, sure.
Then ask your self is that worth losing a star caliber player?
Hell to the No. JPP is not getting OV money, Giants hold ALL the cards. Transition tag him if he thinks he worth more than your offer and tell his agent go find that bigger offer and get us a draft pick while you are at it. Easy.
take 17 mil guaranteed this year, then go get another umpteen mil guaranteed in a long term contract next year.
If I were JPP, I'd take that deal every day and twice on Sunday.
and stay away from fireworks.
the guy is likely to get more guaranteed by blowing up his hand than he was going to get: 8ish mil year blow up. 10ish mil year 2. and a big pay day - 20-30 guaranteed, plus 10-15 yearly average. vs the 20ish mil guaranteed and 10-12ish average that was on the table at the time, followed by an end of career low salary contract. the taggers want to give him 17 mil guaranteed, then another 20-30 next year.
take 17 mil guaranteed this year, then go get another umpteen mil guaranteed in a long term contract next year.
If I were JPP, I'd take that deal every day and twice on Sunday.
and stay away from fireworks.
the guy is likely to get more guaranteed by blowing up his hand than he was going to get: 8ish mil year blow up. 10ish mil year 2. and a big pay day - 20-30 guaranteed, plus 10-15 yearly average. vs the 20ish mil guaranteed and 10-12ish average that was on the table at the time, followed by an end of career low salary contract. the taggers want to give him 17 mil guaranteed, then another 20-30 next year.
It's NOT 17 million, please. The non-exclusive tag in 12+ million. I wish people would get this.
Excellent analysis. Watch out for Jacksonville. They now have an incredible $71M in cap space. JPP also lives in Florida, which has no state income tax. He also spoke highly of Coughlin.
Stop being scared of Dallas. They do not have the cap space to afford JPP. They cleared a bunch of space yesterday just to get under the cap. Even with a cut/trade of Romo, they only have an estimated $7.5M in cap space, take out the ~$4.5-5M estimated rookie pool and that leaves a max of $3M in space. How are they giving JPP $15M/year? It's not possible to back-load a contract that much, not to mention that they don't have the space down the road because of the restructures.
Yes, but will the Giants tag JPP? Somebody said that they had a "gentleman's agreement" with JPP not to use the tag again. Even if they do, that obviously doesn't prevent them from using it. But do we really want an unhappy player, especially at $17M?
On the other hand, do we really want to let him go for nothing, except maybe some comp picks next year. One solution might be to use the tag, and then negotiate a steep discount on picks from the two #1's we'd otherwise be entitled to as compensation.
mdthedream : 8:48 am : link : reply
Here how it works you give him a offer about 15m per and its a sign it or we tag you. End of story we have all the cards.
We do not hold all the cards.....If we tag him, supposedly there was an agreement with the Giants, when he signed the 10M deal, that they wouldn't....so if they do, he will just not sign the deal.....by doing so, it puts that franchise cap money in limbo, and it can't be used for other free agents, and that will hamper any other moves that Reese wants to make in FAcy....and he wouldn't have to show up for OTA's if he doesn't sign the tag.....to get 17M for one year? Who is holding all the cards?
Jax and Cleveland are the only two teams
est1986 : 9:03 am : link : reply
That would give him the OV deal. Tag him tell them to give him that OV deal and give us draft picks if you really want him that bad... Which they wont, which means 4for60 tops or tag, take it or leave it JPP.
There is no take it or leave it here....will the tag be non exclusive or exclusive.....if the former, no team is paying him and giving up draft picks....if the latter, unless the Giants break the bank, he will not sign.....and if they do break the bank, you saw what this line did as a pass rushing unit last year....it would be one of the highest paid DL's in the NFL, and yet not one of the best pass rushing lines.....
And the first time JPP gets injured, BBI will implode....
This is a huge decision for Reese and the front office....resources have to be allocated to improve the whole team.....you can't have all-stars at every position.....do you use 17M on one position, when if you get the right guys, it can take care of two?
The decisions Reese makes this season, decides whether this team continues to go forward, or hits a bump in the road this year......hope he makes the right ones....
It's really pretty obvious and simple. This is almost certainly how it will play out. Although we may look to trade him as well. What isn't happening is the Giants letting him walk away for nothing when we have options on his rights and cap room to maneuver.
And the transition tag offers us a right of refusal but no compensation so that's a no go.
It's the franchise tag or nothing.
Someone looking to make a big splash will go all in on JPP in a way the Giants won't.
1 and 3 is far depending on the team (ie where the picks fall)
And the transition tag offers us a right of refusal but no compensation so that's a no go.
It's the franchise tag or nothing.
There are two franchise tags: exclusive and non-exclusive.
Exclusive means no one else can even negotiate with the player but the value is slightly higher. I believe the Broncos used this on Von Miller.
Non-exclusive is the "traditional" tag that guarantees a team compensation (two firsts) if they elect not to match a contract that the player agrees to with another team.
If the Giants tag JPP, it will be the non-exclusive type.
Quote:
That would give him the OV deal. Tag him tell them to give him that OV deal and give us draft picks if you really want him that bad... Which they wont, which means 4for60 tops or tag, take it or leave it JPP.
Yes, but will the Giants tag JPP? Somebody said that they had a "gentleman's agreement" with JPP not to use the tag again. Even if they do, that obviously doesn't prevent them from using it. But do we really want an unhappy player, especially at $17M?
On the other hand, do we really want to let him go for nothing, except maybe some comp picks next year. One solution might be to use the tag, and then negotiate a steep discount on picks from the two #1's we'd otherwise be entitled to as compensation.
Not like he is going to sit out the season.. If he under performs and creates more questions than answers he will only put himself further and further from that OV type deal.. Will he really not sign a deal that's fair toward both sides, and seek that max deal he can.. idk, we shall see.
Really? How do you know that. Besides, the non-exclusive tag is just a bit over 12 million. You tag him and IF another team wants to give him big bucks AND 2 picks fine. If not, we either sign him to a long term deal or a 1 year 12 million deal.
And the transition tag offers us a right of refusal but no compensation so that's a no go.
It's the franchise tag or nothing.
non-exclusive.. you can negotiate something less than two first rounders.. someone might give up one first rounder and pay him that OV deal.. that's why you give him your first and final offer/deal and tell him its that our the tag OR tell your agent to find you a team willing to part with a pick.
They don't have money, they need to clear cap space, like release Romo for example.
Quote:
In comment 13366269 est1986 said:
Quote:
That would give him the OV deal. Tag him tell them to give him that OV deal and give us draft picks if you really want him that bad... Which they wont, which means 4for60 tops or tag, take it or leave it JPP.
Yes, but will the Giants tag JPP? Somebody said that they had a "gentleman's agreement" with JPP not to use the tag again. Even if they do, that obviously doesn't prevent them from using it. But do we really want an unhappy player, especially at $17M?
On the other hand, do we really want to let him go for nothing, except maybe some comp picks next year. One solution might be to use the tag, and then negotiate a steep discount on picks from the two #1's we'd otherwise be entitled to as compensation.
Not like he is going to sit out the season.. If he under performs and creates more questions than answers he will only put himself further and further from that OV type deal.. Will he really not sign a deal that's fair toward both sides, and seek that max deal he can.. idk, we shall see.
What's fair to both sides??
Who is the better, more talented, and toughest to defend player...JPP or Vernon??
Answer: JPP
Who is younger and more durable player and a safer bet to be serviceable and performing at 100% in 4 years??
Answer: Vernon
What's fair to JPP based on the above??
$17.5 - $18,000,000 per year
What's fair to the Giants based on the fact they want to pay a superior player...that is talented but might be an injury risk and not at 100% at the end of the contract??
Answer: A shorter contract with less guaranteed money...
The Giants are most likely prepared to franchise JPP at $17,000,000 this is obvious...because even if they don't want JPP...or don't want to sign him...the turn around and flip this asset for a minimum of a #1 and #4 draft pick...the dumbest thing the Giants can do now is do nothing...and then watch JPP sign with Dallas and terrorize Eli for the next 4 years...
In my opinion...a deal will get done if they simply offer a 2nd guaranteed year following the franchise year...so the deal is this:
4 Years $70,000,000
With 50% guaranteed or $35,000,000
That is a fair deal since the better player gets more money then the inferior one on an annual basis...
The deal is fair to the Giants since it allows them to part ways in the event JPP can't stay on the field...
I would further add playing time and performance incentives after Year 2, 3, 4
Year 2
If JPP starts 14 games he earns another guaranteed year: $17,0000,000
Year 3
If JPP starts 14 games and gets 12 sacks he earns another guaranteed year: $17,000,000
Year 4
I would also throw in an option year based on exceptional performance:
If JPP starts 14 games and gets 14 sacks he earns another guaranteed year: $17,000,000
This is the correct way to structure a contract that pays a superior player...while protecting the time and allowing them to cut ties quickly if he can't stay on the field...Bottom line it amounts to:
2 Years $35,000,000...JPP will only see the backend of the contract if he can stay on the field and perform
Agreed but wants wrong with tacking a chance on a superior player for 2 years??
Quote:
The second FA starts Cowboys are going to be all in on JPP. They want him real bad and just cleared cap space. Anyone want to see him go after Eli against whoever they put at OLT? Which is why if they can't get a deal done before FA starts, franchising him one more year makes sense. Yea $17M is to much but it buys time and keeps him off the Cowboys.
.
They don't have money, they need to clear cap space, like release Romo for example.
I hope all of you no way Dallas guys are correct. They're going to release Romo, not sure would the cap implication will be. There's a lot of buzz in Dallas (I go there frequently on business) about the Cowboys in particular Jerrah passionately wanting to go all out to land JPP. In addition to releasing Romo they can restructure Witten, Lee and others. By now we've all seen teams work their magic to make cap space. Tannenbaum use to take the Jets from cap hell to cap nirvana in seemingly a day. I'm not aware of the Cowboys having an Abrams like Captologist, although I'm sure they have someone behind the scenes running the calcs. As much as I like JPP, I'd be fine with him going to someplace like Jax. I just don't want to see him him more than once every four years.
It's really pretty obvious and simple. This is almost certainly how it will play out. Although we may look to trade him as well. What isn't happening is the Giants letting him walk away for nothing when we have options on his rights and cap room to maneuver.
I like this. Add to the fact that NYG is a better team to play on and has a much better chance to win a superbowl than Cleveland and Jacksonville. It is a win/win situation for both JPP and NYG.
And the transition tag offers us a right of refusal but no compensation so that's a no go.
It's the franchise tag or nothing.
You're pointless. J/K. The two first rounders is a guideline. It's BS. Teams can negotiate whatever they want.
You make him a fair offer....you can't tag him and get stuck with the tag....we can't afford it...
The Giants may not be willing to pay it. Tagging is stupid, IMO. he'll laugh all the way to the bank, just as he did after blowing his hand up.
The bottom line is that JPP and his agent already know what kind of deal he's going to get. they'll probably try to play the Giants vs others to squeeze a little more out, but he'll get his deal rather quickly.
Come on...
One-year instead of long term, could be in the same boat next year.
He will be upset if he gets tagged..? if that counts, sure.
Then ask your self is that worth losing a star caliber player?
Hell to the No. JPP is not getting OV money, Giants hold ALL the cards. Transition tag him if he thinks he worth more than your offer and tell his agent go find that bigger offer and get us a draft pick while you are at it. Easy.
If I were JPP, I'd take that deal every day and twice on Sunday.
and stay away from fireworks.
the guy is likely to get more guaranteed by blowing up his hand than he was going to get: 8ish mil year blow up. 10ish mil year 2. and a big pay day - 20-30 guaranteed, plus 10-15 yearly average. vs the 20ish mil guaranteed and 10-12ish average that was on the table at the time, followed by an end of career low salary contract. the taggers want to give him 17 mil guaranteed, then another 20-30 next year.
If I were JPP, I'd take that deal every day and twice on Sunday.
and stay away from fireworks.
the guy is likely to get more guaranteed by blowing up his hand than he was going to get: 8ish mil year blow up. 10ish mil year 2. and a big pay day - 20-30 guaranteed, plus 10-15 yearly average. vs the 20ish mil guaranteed and 10-12ish average that was on the table at the time, followed by an end of career low salary contract. the taggers want to give him 17 mil guaranteed, then another 20-30 next year.
It's NOT 17 million, please. The non-exclusive tag in 12+ million. I wish people would get this.