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NFT: Knicks Chat: Rose has multiple suitors

DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 9:08 am
According to ESPNs Ian Begley, the Timberwolves have talked to the Knicks about a possible trade involving Rose. Begley reports that it is unclear what the Timberwolves would offer the Knicks for the former MVP. The Timberwolves arent the only team inquiring about Rose as Begley reports that several teams have reached out to the Knicks about their starting point guard.

-Berman is implying Melo prefers LAC/LAL over Cleveland, Boston etc but like everyone else he's saying a deal would be shocking.

-Steve Kyler says Paul has a verbal agreement to remain with LAC and will be official once the new CBA begins.
What would  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 9:15 am : link
be the point of Minnesota going after Rose? Simply a cap move?
Multiple suitors for Rose is good for the Knicks.  
Heisenberg : 2/21/2017 9:17 am : link
I still kinda doubt that a Melo trade will happen during the season. Maybe in the offseason.

I'd give Rubio a chance here. He at least tries on defense and it's not like Rose can shoot either, aside from layups and runners.
RE: What would  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 9:18 am : link
In comment 13366281 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
be the point of Minnesota going after Rose? Simply a cap move?


With Thib's history with Rose probably mostly that + knowledge Knicks are prone to dumb moves + possibly a "tryout" in terms of fit.
Would be great if Melo to LAL...  
Italianju : 2/21/2017 9:21 am : link
started gaining traction. That said they didnt trade for Cousins so i have no idea why they would want Melo. Even if they wont trade ingram they have quite a few assets id find somewhat appealing. Def better then everyone but BOS.
Apparently LAL  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 9:25 am : link
Offered williams, Randle, Clarkson and picks for Butler.

Yuck.
RE: Apparently LAL  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 9:26 am : link
In comment 13366299 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Offered williams, Randle, Clarkson and picks for Butler.

Yuck.


CHI will really regret dealing Butler for spare parts. They really need to resist that temptation. Boston is really the only match that makes sense.
RE: Apparently LAL  
dep026 : 2/21/2017 9:27 am : link
In comment 13366299 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Offered williams, Randle, Clarkson and picks for Butler.

Yuck.


If its their first round pick this year.... Id consider it.
Am I missing something with clarkson?  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 9:28 am : link
My Lakers fan friend ishead over heels about him. He's a nice player for where he was drafted, but everything about him screams backup scoring guard to me.
RE: RE: Apparently LAL  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 9:30 am : link
In comment 13366304 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13366299 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Offered williams, Randle, Clarkson and picks for Butler.

Yuck.



If its their first round pick this year.... Id consider it.


I don't think it would be, they only have control of it if it falls top 3. Otherwise i believe the earliest it can be is 2020 because philly gets the 2018 pick. Could be wrong on that though.
Give Him Away With the Caveat  
Suburbanites : 2/21/2017 9:31 am : link
You have to take Noah too. Yea, that's not not going to happen, dreaming is healthy though.
A Lakers squad with butler but minus  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 9:33 am : link
Clarkson, Randle and williams is not all that better than the current bulls team.
RE: Would be great if Melo to LAL...  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 9:57 am : link
In comment 13366292 Italianju said:
Quote:
started gaining traction. That said they didnt trade for Cousins so i have no idea why they would want Melo. Even if they wont trade ingram they have quite a few assets id find somewhat appealing. Def better then everyone but BOS.


I'm shocked they wouldn't move Ingram for Boogie. I think teams are going to regret big time not grabbing Cousins for cheap.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 10:00 am : link
think Jalen Brunson could be a second round target for Phil if they don't get a PG 1st round.
One thing about getting rubio  
nygiants16 : 2/21/2017 10:04 am : link
in the slot they are in now draft wise, it makes a guy monk a very good fit..

now rubio is not going to atop me from drafting a point guard but it could open more possibilitiea without desperately needing a point guard
RE: I  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13366359 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
think Jalen Brunson could be a second round target for Phil if they don't get a PG 1st round.


Agreed. Where do you think Josh Hart gets drafted and how do you project him in the NBA?

I'd probably do Rose for Rubio. Knicks would be very Eurocentric though.
Does Rubio make sense  
Canton : 2/21/2017 10:20 am : link
with the injury history? He's missed so many games in his career.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 10:21 am : link
In comment 13366381 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13366359 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


think Jalen Brunson could be a second round target for Phil if they don't get a PG 1st round.



Agreed. Where do you think Josh Hart gets drafted and how do you project him in the NBA?

I'd probably do Rose for Rubio. Knicks would be very Eurocentric though.


Hart is having a nice season but most things I see have him 2nd round as well. Seems like this draft is crazy deep on paper. Brunson isn't going to wow you but he's smart, high character, seems like the kind of PG Phik would like. Hart to me would be a great pickup second round which is another reason I'd love to see more picks added.
To  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 10:25 am : link
me the main appeal of Rubio for Rose is I think Rubio is better for KP/Willy's development so for that reason I'd probably do it.
RE: Does Rubio make sense  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 10:25 am : link
In comment 13366386 Canton said:
Quote:
with the injury history? He's missed so many games in his career.


And Rose has been what, exactly? Iron man?
RE: To  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 10:26 am : link
In comment 13366390 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
me the main appeal of Rubio for Rose is I think Rubio is better for KP/Willy's development so for that reason I'd probably do it.


Same. He's also halfway through his deal at a pretty decent cost.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 10:27 am : link
Legion Hoops
‏@LegionHoops

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The Knicks, Wolves & Pistons have discussed a three-team trade that sends DRose to Minnesota, Rubio to Detroit & Reggie Jackson to NY (ESPN)
I hate Reggie Jackson's game.  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 10:29 am : link
Hopefully that report is just piggybacking off Windhorst's speculation on ESPN last night.
Jazz are shopping favors.  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 10:30 am : link
Would anyone be opposed to swapping KOQ for favors? Favors has been very injury prone but was very good the last few years. Would be a buy low target. I also think he's a center, not a PF. Would be a solid 5 next to KP. Grans boards and plays defense.
RE: .  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 10:31 am : link
In comment 13366393 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Legion Hoops
@LegionHoops

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The Knicks, Wolves & Pistons have discussed a three-team trade that sends DRose to Minnesota, Rubio to Detroit & Reggie Jackson to NY (ESPN)


Such a Knicks move. Score first point guard on a big contract with injury concerns. Teammates also hate playing with him. A hard pass.
RE: I hate Reggie Jackson's game.  
nygiants16 : 2/21/2017 10:32 am : link
In comment 13366395 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Hopefully that report is just piggybacking off Windhorst's speculation on ESPN last night.


legion hoops just retweets reports, more than likely it is windhorst report they are reporting
,  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 10:34 am : link
More
The Clippers want Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley or Smart, and future 1st Round Picks in exchange for Blake Griffin from the Celtics (Via ESPN)
RE: .  
Jon in NYC : 2/21/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13366393 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Legion Hoops
‏@LegionHoops

Follow
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The Knicks, Wolves & Pistons have discussed a three-team trade that sends DRose to Minnesota, Rubio to Detroit & Reggie Jackson to NY (ESPN)


That's also not what Windhorst said.

Big pass on Reggie Jackson.
Gary  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 10:35 am : link
Washburn claims Melo WOULD waive his NTC to go to Boston. Didn't supply any evidence of this though.
I think the 3 way is speculative  
nygiants16 : 2/21/2017 10:37 am : link
because reports are minnesota wants rose, detroit wants rubio so they just assume knicks take jackson
If he's willing to go to Boston  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 10:38 am : link
I would just take whatever I can get from Boston at this point. Even their "B" package is better than anything Cleveland or LAC would give us.
RE: To  
Stu11 : 2/21/2017 10:48 am : link
In comment 13366390 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
me the main appeal of Rubio for Rose is I think Rubio is better for KP/Willy's development so for that reason I'd probably do it.

I agree and also it sure would be nice to see a Knicks PG at least try and get in the way of another team's PG occasionally. Not saying Rubio is a defensive stopper but at least it won't be the usual magic carpet ride to the rim.
Boston/ Clippers  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 10:51 am : link
Any chance for a 3 way trade where Blake ends up in Boston, Melo/ Bradley in LA, and Knicks get young players/ picks from Boston?

The ringer wrote about it a few weeks ago.
We will take whomever they want as long as some picks  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 11:04 am : link
Are involved. I'm surprised we are not hearing more about KOQ and Jennings. I thought more teams would be in on them. Perfect players for a playoff push.
knicks don't have to move noah as part of a salary dump  
djm : 2/21/2017 11:05 am : link
really they don't have to do much of anything other than move any desirable veterans for young assets. Knicks don't have to be desperate. Even if Melo stays...fine...get assets for anyone you can and draft well. Keep adding assets. They have a lot more assets today than they have in DECADES. Fact. Just keep at it and try to limit the stupid tweets and public embarrassments.
RE: knicks don't have to move noah as part of a salary dump  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 11:07 am : link
In comment 13366448 djm said:
Quote:
really they don't have to do much of anything other than move any desirable veterans for young assets. Knicks don't have to be desperate. Even if Melo stays...fine...get assets for anyone you can and draft well. Keep adding assets. They have a lot more assets today than they have in DECADES. Fact. Just keep at it and try to limit the stupid tweets and public embarrassments.

Thing is, by the time the team is ready (if ever) to compete for the East, Melo's days will be over.
Rubio has a longer contract that  
Reeses Pieces : 2/21/2017 11:09 am : link
the Wolves are trying to rid themselves of. Rose is a salary dump and extra compensation needs to be delivered. If dealing with the Wolves its either picks or take on Noahs contract to for Pekovic.
RE: knicks don't have to move noah as part of a salary dump  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13366448 djm said:
Quote:
really they don't have to do much of anything other than move any desirable veterans for young assets. Knicks don't have to be desperate. Even if Melo stays...fine...get assets for anyone you can and draft well. Keep adding assets. They have a lot more assets today than they have in DECADES. Fact. Just keep at it and try to limit the stupid tweets and public embarrassments.


Well if you believe Tommy Dee, Boston is a KOQ away from a trip to the finals and should be getting us the BKN pick.
Boston  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 11:23 am : link
What about a deal just with Boston? Melo for Amir Johnson/ Jerekbo/ James Young and D. Jackson and a non Brooklyn pick?

Knicks are getting a late future 1st plus Young and Jackson- two decent young players. Boston doesn't even have room for those young guys and have plenty of picks. Celtics are barely giving up anything. Who says no?
James Young  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 11:25 am : link
Is a D-leaguer
RE: Rubio has a longer contract that  
giants#1 : 2/21/2017 11:27 am : link
In comment 13366452 Reeses Pieces said:
Quote:
the Wolves are trying to rid themselves of. Rose is a salary dump and extra compensation needs to be delivered. If dealing with the Wolves its either picks or take on Noahs contract to for Pekovic.


Rubio's deal is longer, thus he is the salary dump, not Rose's expiring deal. I'd hope the Knicks could at least get a 2nd round pick along with taking back Rubio.
RE: James Young  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13366466 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Is a D-leaguer


I don't think the guy is the next James Harden but he doesn't get any minutes for Boston. When he does he's played well. I would take a chance on him.
I say no to Boston  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 11:30 am : link
In no way do I help them for a bag of shit. They have to help us. All those players you can sign off the street in the offseason. Now if you tell me 3-4 picks are involved I might change my tune.
RE: RE: James Young  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 11:34 am : link
In comment 13366473 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13366466 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Is a D-leaguer



I don't think the guy is the next James Harden but he doesn't get any minutes for Boston. When he does he's played well. I would take a chance on him.


He's made 21 shots in total this year. He can't play defense to save his life. The Celtics use Jerebko and Olynyk as part of their rotation. If he deserved minutes, he would get them. RJ hunter is another Celtic that didn't get minutes. Turns out he wasn't kyle korver that wasn't getting minutes because of the players in front of him.
RE: I say no to Boston  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 11:35 am : link
In comment 13366476 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
In no way do I help them for a bag of shit. They have to help us. All those players you can sign off the street in the offseason. Now if you tell me 3-4 picks are involved I might change my tune.


3 or 4 picks for Carmelo? Good luck getting that.

Most likely scenario is Melo gets moved to the Clippers in the offseason. Who knows though.
Point is  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 11:39 am : link
I keep Melo rather than give him to Boston. That's one team which has to overpay in my book. Any true Knick fan feels the same way.
I can't think of a worse team at drafting  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 11:40 am : link
than Boston over the last 5+ years. They don't get flack because Ainge has been on point on personnel moves so it masks it. Their best draft pick in recent history has been Marcus smart. They're not gonna mess up the Nets picks because you really can't picking that high. But if Boston is picking in the late lottery there's a pretty good chance they're gonna fuck up the pick. Not sure why it is, I think they look to go for "NBA ready" players with noted limited ceilings and end up getting useless players. Still a wait and see on their euro picks.
Remember late 1's  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 11:40 am : link
You can buy on draft night. Seconds also.
RE: Point is  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13366486 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
I keep Melo rather than give him to Boston. That's one team which has to overpay in my book. Any true Knick fan feels the same way.


You can speak for yourself. Any true knick fan would want the Knicks to get better long term. Sending Melo to Boston isn't going to put them over the Cavs.
RE: Remember late 1's  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 11:42 am : link
In comment 13366491 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
You can buy on draft night. Seconds also.


When was the last time a 1st rounder was sold straight for cash?
...  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 11:52 am : link
I don't care where Melo goes if he can be moved. I just don't want him going for 35 points in late March/ Early April winning meaningless games for the Knicks and hurting their draft position.

Teams aren't selling picks anymore. Not happening.
RE: RE: Remember late 1's  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 11:56 am : link
In comment 13366497 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13366491 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


You can buy on draft night. Seconds also.



When was the last time a 1st rounder was sold straight for cash?

I think Rondo was dealt basically straight for cash on draft night.
So now we're  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 11:58 am : link
worried about Boston getting better instead of the Knicks continuing to suck in mediocrity? Get outta here with that.
RE: RE: RE: Remember late 1's  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 11:59 am : link
In comment 13366520 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13366497 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13366491 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


You can buy on draft night. Seconds also.



When was the last time a 1st rounder was sold straight for cash?


I think Rondo was dealt basically straight for cash on draft night.


The Suns got the Cavs 2007 first rounder in that deal too. But my point is the same as TyreeHemlet's. Teams value 1st rounders (and overall picks in general) now more than they did 5 years, let alone 10 years ago. You can buy picks at the end of the 2nd round, but even early 2nd rounders seem to have value.
so giving Melo to Boston for trash  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 12:02 pm : link
really helps the Knicks. ill pass.
We wouldn't get trash  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:05 pm : link
from Boston. If Bradley, Crowder, or Smart was involved, that isn't trash.
RE: so giving Melo to Boston for trash  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13366533 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
really helps the Knicks. ill pass.


Where the fuck are you going with this? You first say Boston has to give a minimum of 4 1st round picks as an overpay for Melo and then assume the alternative is giving him away for nothing.
I commented on  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 12:09 pm : link
The trade proposal of D. Jackson, Johnson/Jerekbo and a late 1. None of the players you mentioned were discussed.
Imagine  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:10 pm : link
calling Ainge and saying hey Danny considering we used to be bitter rivals, how about throwing in a few extra picks. Ya know, for the old fans who hate you?
RE: so giving Melo to Boston for trash  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 12:10 pm : link
In comment 13366533 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
really helps the Knicks. ill pass.


Do you see the return Boogie Cousins just got? No team is giving the Knicks some incredible package of young players and picks. It's not realistic at his age and his contract. The value is moving him this year and improving your draft position into the top 5. That's incredibly valuable if you ask me.
4 first round picks?  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 12:10 pm : link
You are mistaken me for someone else. Read the fucking proposal.
It's nearly impossible  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:11 pm : link
for any Knick fan under 50 to hate the Celtics. They have outclassed them on the court and with management the past 15 years it is somewhat staggering. If anything, Knicks fans should look up to how they run their organization.
Tyreehelmet  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 12:12 pm : link
It was your proposal of Boston trash. I didn't make a proposal.
RE: Boston  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13366461 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
What about a deal just with Boston? Melo for Amir Johnson/ Jerekbo/ James Young and D. Jackson and a non Brooklyn pick?

Yeah this deal is terrible. No way the Knicks would agree to that. 1 of Crowder-Smart-Bradley would have to be involved I'm sure.
Especially if the  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:16 pm : link
Brooklyn picks aren't involved, the Knicks would be getting some of the Celtics good players.
Ryan  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 12:18 pm : link
Exactly. Now hating The Celts? Guilty as charged over 50. The 80's sucked!
Also  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:18 pm : link
Amir Johnson has almost no value. I'm sure Boston would throw him in though
RE: Ryan  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13366577 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Exactly. Now hating The Celts? Guilty as charged over 50. The 80's sucked!

I grew up in Boston too...Ainge is just a really good GM. Never makes a panic move and only strikes when completely necessary.
That being said,  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:21 pm : link
any GM would have accepted the Brooklyn offer. Bit of luck there.
I hope the Rose trade goes down today.  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 12:23 pm : link
We need to get these dominoes falling.
RE: That being said,  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13366581 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
any GM would have accepted the Brooklyn offer. Bit of luck there.


Well yeah. Not sure how the convo started but not many GMs would give up KG/Pierce when making the playoffs consistently. You can chalk that one up to luck but then you have the Rondo deal, Jeff Green deal and the IT trade. Ainge A+ manager, D+ drafter. All their non-Nets picks are more valuable to other teams at this point, they shouldn't be clinging onto those anymore.
NBA  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:28 pm : link
draft is tough if you aren't in the lottery, and they haven't been in the lottery hardly at all during Ainge's tenure. I wouldn't think any Celtics fan cares about Ainge's draft history.
Realistic  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 12:32 pm : link
Some of you aren't being realistic for what you can get for Melo. And I'm a big fan of Melo.

What would you accept if your Knicks? Let me hear it.
I'm 33. The only time I hated the Celtics was when Paul Pierce  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/21/2017 12:32 pm : link
Was being a dick. I don't think the Knicks and Celtics have ever been foot at the same time during my non-infant lifetime.
James Herbert  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 12:33 pm : link

Derrick Rose, New York Knicks: A recent report indicates Minnesota reached out about Rose, and thats fascinating. He has been better than some expected as a scorer this season, showcasing an ability to get to the rim and put pressure on defenses in transition, but his poor defense and reluctance to shoot from deep limits his value. It seems unlikely that New York would be able to get a first-round pick in exchange for a few months of Rose, who will be a free agent in July.

Carmelo Anthony, New York Knicks: The safe bet now is that the star forward will not waive his no-trade clause, meaning hell stay in New York the rest of this season. Knicks president Phil Jackson was reportedly determined to move him less than a month ago, so it would be unwise to completely dismiss the possibility. If Jackson can somehow put together a deal that sends him to the Clippers or Cavaliers, then he would surely consider it.

Brandon Jennings, New York Knicks: Like Rose, Jennings would be a rental. Also like Rose, he has not exactly played his best basketball in New York. He might be better in a different system, though, and if the Knicks think hes going elsewhere in free agency, he could come cheap.
Simmons  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:34 pm : link
just tweeted out Crowder-expirings-2018 nets pick-Grizzlies pick for Melo. That's very realistic.
Crowder and a Boston pick  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 12:36 pm : link
Non-Jersey.
RE: NBA  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 12:36 pm : link
In comment 13366589 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
draft is tough if you aren't in the lottery, and they haven't been in the lottery hardly at all during Ainge's tenure. I wouldn't think any Celtics fan cares about Ainge's draft history.


Hmm I'm not so sure about that, you need to nail draft picks if you don't have Lebron on your team. I give the Celtics props for managing properly and would welcome Ainge with open arms, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. They haven't won a playoff series in what, 5-6 years? You'd have to think if they nailed drafting they prospects right now would be a lot better.

Like if they drafted Lavine instead of Smart, Gary harris/Capella/hood instead of James Young, Dekker instead of Rozier, Harrel instead of Hunter, and Willy instead of Mickey, their prospects would be much, much better.

The draft is hard, but it's also really hard to screw up draft picks to that degree. Say half of those picks were better, they'd have more assets to give for butler or would be much more willing to part with a Nets pick to land Butler/George
RE: Simmons  
Deej : 2/21/2017 12:36 pm : link
In comment 13366602 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
just tweeted out Crowder-expirings-2018 nets pick-Grizzlies pick for Melo. That's very realistic.


I'd take that and run
That's even  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 12:36 pm : link
Better.
Would  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:37 pm : link
Knicks be more interested in Smart or Crowder?
Drafting halfway decently  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 12:38 pm : link
would be the difference in Boston being what they are now (a pretender) and being an actual contender.
Shit  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:39 pm : link
I meant Boston 2018 pick, not Brooklyn. Yikes. OK that makes it worse for Knicks but I'd still take it.
RE: Would  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13366612 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Knicks be more interested in Smart or Crowder?


Crowders a much better player but he's not super young anymore either. I'd also imagine Boston would want to keep crowder at the 3 and play Melo at the 4.
RE: Simmons  
Deej : 2/21/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13366602 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
just tweeted out Crowder-expirings-2018 nets pick-Grizzlies pick for Melo. That's very realistic.


His tweet was the BOS 2018 pick not the BK 2018 pick. Big difference.
Smart  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 12:39 pm : link
has 2 years remaining then is an RFA, Crowder has 3 and then is a UFA. Smart is 4 years younger.
RE: Simmons  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13366602 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
just tweeted out Crowder-expirings-2018 nets pick-Grizzlies pick for Melo. That's very realistic.


I'd do that in a heartbeat. Great deal for the Knicks.
RE: Shit  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13366614 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I meant Boston 2018 pick, not Brooklyn. Yikes. OK that makes it worse for Knicks but I'd still take it.


Ah I was going to ask if bill Simmons or Ben Simmons proposed a nets pick. Would still take that.
Memphis protection in case anyone is interested  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 12:40 pm : link
2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 (conveyable if Memphis conveys a 1st round pick to Portland in 2017) and 1-6 in 2020 (conveyable if Memphis has conveyed a 1st round pick to Portland by 2018) and unprotected in 2021 [Boston-Memphis-New Orleans, 1/12/2015]
Like Smart  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 12:41 pm : link
But we have too many guards and with Melo gone I think Crowder. Now if we move others, maybe smart. On second thought I think Crowder.
That Grizzlies  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 12:42 pm : link
pick has value for sure.
Celtics...  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 12:46 pm : link
rolling out a lineup of Thomas, Smart, Bradley, Melo and Horford could seriously score. Beating the Cavs? Probably not but it makes them dangerous....
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 12:47 pm : link
suspect the Celtics would prefer moving Smart. Crowder is their x factor vs. Lebron especially if you have Melo playing big minutes.
RE: Memphis protection in case anyone is interested  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13366622 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 (conveyable if Memphis conveys a 1st round pick to Portland in 2017) and 1-6 in 2020 (conveyable if Memphis has conveyed a 1st round pick to Portland by 2018) and unprotected in 2021 [Boston-Memphis-New Orleans, 1/12/2015]


If they were really including this pick, I would throw in KOQ or anything besides KP/ Willy to make it work.
RE: Smart  
Deej : 2/21/2017 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13366618 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has 2 years remaining then is an RFA, Crowder has 3 and then is a UFA. Smart is 4 years younger.


This is year 3 for Smart. So I think he has one more full season, then RFA, then UFA.

Still I think there is a lot of value in Smart if you think his shot has upside. I am a massive fan of his defense. He's beyond good on D -- he's disruptive and inspiring.
A lot of people scoff at the Melo-to-Celtics move  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 12:53 pm : link
from the Celtics standpoint, but to me it's a no-brainer for them. Getting George or Butler would require a Brooklyn pick as a starting point, while Melo may only require a non-Brooklyn pick or two and a guy like Smart. That's a massive, massive upgrade for your team at very little cost. Why not try and steal the East from Lebron this year while you wait to cash in on this year's and next year's Brooklyn picks?
RE: RE: Smart  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13366643 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13366618 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has 2 years remaining then is an RFA, Crowder has 3 and then is a UFA. Smart is 4 years younger.



This is year 3 for Smart. So I think he has one more full season, then RFA, then UFA.

Still I think there is a lot of value in Smart if you think his shot has upside. I am a massive fan of his defense. He's beyond good on D -- he's disruptive and inspiring.


Deej unlesss sporttact is wrong he has 2 years and then RFA

"2017-18 Contract details by year 22 $4,538,020 $4,538,020 $4,538,020
2018-19 Contract details by year 23 $6,053,718 $6,053,718 -
2018 Free Agent Year 24
RFA"
what's the Mem-Port pick protections?  
giants#1 : 2/21/2017 12:56 pm : link
since that seems to impact any deal for the Memphis pick.

Though a pick 3+ years out seems limited in value to begin with. And the BOS 2018 pick would likely be mid-20s. Not a super exciting deal with the 2018 pick coming from BOS instead of BKN, but probably about the best you can hope for after seeing the Cousins deal.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 12:57 pm : link
actually MUCH prefer Smart to Crowder. Younger, worst case is he's a guy you stick on a top PG and suddenly your bigs look better because the opposing PG isn't blowing by your PG. He's known for coming up with big plays, quick hands. Odds are against him ever becoming a good shooter but he could improve to the point he's merely "not good" vs. awful. His downside is defensive stopper at a key position.
RE: what's the Mem-Port pick protections?  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13366652 giants#1 said:
Quote:
since that seems to impact any deal for the Memphis pick.

Though a pick 3+ years out seems limited in value to begin with. And the BOS 2018 pick would likely be mid-20s. Not a super exciting deal with the 2018 pick coming from BOS instead of BKN, but probably about the best you can hope for after seeing the Cousins deal.


2017 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Portland (via Cleveland to Denver) protected for selections 1-5 in 2017 and 1-5 in 2018 and unprotected in 2019 [Cleveland-Memphis, 1/22/2013; Cleveland-Denver, 1/7/2015; Denver-Portland, 2/13/2017]
so Mem to Portland  
giants#1 : 2/21/2017 1:00 pm : link
is basically a lock to happen this year.
Agree  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 1:02 pm : link
on Smart...i think most Celtics fans would actually prefer him to stay.
RE: RE: RE: Smart  
Deej : 2/21/2017 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13366648 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13366643 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13366618 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has 2 years remaining then is an RFA, Crowder has 3 and then is a UFA. Smart is 4 years younger.



This is year 3 for Smart. So I think he has one more full season, then RFA, then UFA.

Still I think there is a lot of value in Smart if you think his shot has upside. I am a massive fan of his defense. He's beyond good on D -- he's disruptive and inspiring.



Deej unlesss sporttact is wrong he has 2 years and then RFA

"2017-18 Contract details by year 22 $4,538,020 $4,538,020 $4,538,020
2018-19 Contract details by year 23 $6,053,718 $6,053,718 -
2018 Free Agent Year 24
RFA"


I think that indicates that he's an RFA in the 2018 offseason with an option of $6,053,718. UFA would be in 2019. I.e. he has the remainder of this year and next season under contract, then 1 RFA/option season, then a restricted free agent. 2 more years of control, not 3.

You get 5 years of control unless that was just changed in the new CBA. Smart is in his 3rd season.
RE: A lot of people scoff at the Melo-to-Celtics move  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13366644 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
from the Celtics standpoint, but to me it's a no-brainer for them. Getting George or Butler would require a Brooklyn pick as a starting point, while Melo may only require a non-Brooklyn pick or two and a guy like Smart. That's a massive, massive upgrade for your team at very little cost. Why not try and steal the East from Lebron this year while you wait to cash in on this year's and next year's Brooklyn picks?

Agree. Getting Melo without giving up either BK pick is a great deal for them.
RE: I  
Deej : 2/21/2017 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13366653 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
actually MUCH prefer Smart to Crowder. Younger, worst case is he's a guy you stick on a top PG and suddenly your bigs look better because the opposing PG isn't blowing by your PG. He's known for coming up with big plays, quick hands. Odds are against him ever becoming a good shooter but he could improve to the point he's merely "not good" vs. awful. His downside is defensive stopper at a key position.


Yeah, our rim protectors are pretty good. You get Melo and Rose off this team and bring in a guy like Smart and we could quickly be a top 10 D, especially if KP physically matures. Noah-KP-XX-Lee-Smart is pretty good defensively. Putrid on offense unless that XX (our lottery pick?) is an offensive star/tablesetter.
RE: A lot of people scoff at the Melo-to-Celtics move  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13366644 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
from the Celtics standpoint, but to me it's a no-brainer for them. Getting George or Butler would require a Brooklyn pick as a starting point, while Melo may only require a non-Brooklyn pick or two and a guy like Smart. That's a massive, massive upgrade for your team at very little cost. Why not try and steal the East from Lebron this year while you wait to cash in on this year's and next year's Brooklyn picks?


Agree with all this. Is it possible for them to get Melo and Butler? They have a bunch of contracts that are flexible that I think they should use. Getting Butler and Melo without giving up any of your top players is a serious haul.
I would also think smart  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 1:07 pm : link
would be more expendable. Bradley isn't the most exciting name but I'd argue he's Bostons 2nd best player. And the idea of committing 3 max contracts to a backcourt that has yet to move out of the first round can't excite Boston too much. Obviously a Melo deal is a long shot but I would think Smart is the first trade piece Boston would be willing to dangle.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Smart  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13366669 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13366648 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13366643 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13366618 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has 2 years remaining then is an RFA, Crowder has 3 and then is a UFA. Smart is 4 years younger.



This is year 3 for Smart. So I think he has one more full season, then RFA, then UFA.

Still I think there is a lot of value in Smart if you think his shot has upside. I am a massive fan of his defense. He's beyond good on D -- he's disruptive and inspiring.



Deej unlesss sporttact is wrong he has 2 years and then RFA

"2017-18 Contract details by year 22 $4,538,020 $4,538,020 $4,538,020
2018-19 Contract details by year 23 $6,053,718 $6,053,718 -
2018 Free Agent Year 24
RFA"



I think that indicates that he's an RFA in the 2018 offseason with an option of $6,053,718. UFA would be in 2019. I.e. he has the remainder of this year and next season under contract, then 1 RFA/option season, then a restricted free agent. 2 more years of control, not 3.

You get 5 years of control unless that was just changed in the new CBA. Smart is in his 3rd season.


Deej the website might be wrong but that is 100% not what is says on there. When a player is a UFA it actually says "UFA". In this case it's clearly indicating he's a RFA in 2 more full seasons.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13366672 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13366653 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


actually MUCH prefer Smart to Crowder. Younger, worst case is he's a guy you stick on a top PG and suddenly your bigs look better because the opposing PG isn't blowing by your PG. He's known for coming up with big plays, quick hands. Odds are against him ever becoming a good shooter but he could improve to the point he's merely "not good" vs. awful. His downside is defensive stopper at a key position.



Yeah, our rim protectors are pretty good. You get Melo and Rose off this team and bring in a guy like Smart and we could quickly be a top 10 D, especially if KP physically matures. Noah-KP-XX-Lee-Smart is pretty good defensively. Putrid on offense unless that XX (our lottery pick?) is an offensive star/tablesetter.


Oh don't worry, Jayson Tatum/Jon Isaac is going to be a top tier scorer.
The website  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 1:10 pm : link
is correct. Boston picked up Smart's option year, making him only a RFA in 2019 and not UFA.
Dan  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 1:11 pm : link
hoopshype has smart as a RFA in the 2018 offseason (so at the end of next season). This is his 3rd year in the league so he has 1 more full year before becoming a FA.
Like  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 1:12 pm : link
I said I'm not suggesting Deej is wrong, I'm stating the website flat out says it's 2 more than RFA. If you look at other players UFA says UFA when that's the case.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Smart  
Deej : 2/21/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13366682 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:


Deej the website might be wrong but that is 100% not what is says on there. When a player is a UFA it actually says "UFA". In this case it's clearly indicating he's a RFA in 2 more full seasons. Link - ( New Window )



It looks like you're misreading the website. What it shows is 4 seasons under contract. 2018-19 is in red, because it is his 5th year option season. The options hasnt been exercised (and the notes say 2016 and 2016 club option exercise). The annotation of 2018 RFA is not a 6th season even though it is in the chart. Indeed, it says "2018" for the RFA season. How can 2018 be a 6th RFA season in addition to 2018-19 as his 5th season?

In any event the rules are the rules no matter what a website says. You get 5 years of control.
Sorry I meant  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 1:14 pm : link
2018 RFA
Boston picked  
ryanmkeane : 2/21/2017 1:15 pm : link
up the option years for Smart and Rozier
Regardless of  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 1:20 pm : link
what sporttrac says I take him over Crowder and believe Boston would deal him over Crowder.
Lakers  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 1:21 pm : link
Magic is running the show now. Kupchak fired.
RE: Regardless of  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13366704 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
what sporttrac says I take him over Crowder and believe Boston would deal him over Crowder.


Yup. Melo deal or otherwise I think they're willing to part with smart more than any of their other core pieces.
Wow it didn't take long for Magic to take over.  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 1:24 pm : link
Kobe will get some BS "advisor" title now, too.
Nets lower Lopez's asking price to  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 1:24 pm : link
1 first rounder and one 2nd rounder. Shocker. Really, no team wanted to give 2 1st rounders for Brook?
I don't know why washington is intent on making win now moves  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 1:27 pm : link
but if they're willing to part with Oubre I try trading oubre, mahinimi and a 1st for Lopez and Bogdonavic. BKNs not really in a great position to be telling teams what the value of their players are worth.
So  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 1:28 pm : link
safe to assume it was Magic who balked at Ingram in the Boogie deal. Idiotic if you ask me.
I'm highly skeptical of Magic in this type of role.  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 1:30 pm : link
If he wants to make a quick splash move, I hear Melo's open to Los Angeles...
How about Jeannie Buss tho???  
EricNY33 : 2/21/2017 1:32 pm : link
You get rid of BOTH your brothers? Can't tell me she doesn't have the biggest dick in that family
Lakers  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 1:35 pm : link
dumped their PR guy who has been there for 25 seasons wow
RE: Lakers  
Canton : 2/21/2017 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13366721 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
dumped their PR guy who has been there for 25 seasons wow


Obviously Magic didn't like him
Yeah nixing the Boogie deal was a mistake.  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 1:37 pm : link
I knew it's early, but do any of the Lakers kids really have the look of a franchise player? No need for the Lakers to build slowly through the draft - they can attract free agents easily if they have a decent enough team. Trade the kids for guys like Cousins, George, Butler, etc., and watch the stars flock there in free agency.
Also, "Boogie" has my vote  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 1:39 pm : link
for the best nickname in basketball right now.
Magic is now  
moespree : 2/21/2017 1:40 pm : link
Running an NBA franchise and minority owner of the LA Dodgers. I'd say you could call that a success.
RE: Yeah nixing the Boogie deal was a mistake.  
EricNY33 : 2/21/2017 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13366723 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I knew it's early, but do any of the Lakers kids really have the look of a franchise player? No need for the Lakers to build slowly through the draft - they can attract free agents easily if they have a decent enough team. Trade the kids for guys like Cousins, George, Butler, etc., and watch the stars flock there in free agency.


I honestly think it was more about his volatility than his actual talent. If it was Anthony Davis being dealt to LA Brandon Ingram is gone.
RE: Yeah nixing the Boogie deal was a mistake.  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13366723 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I knew it's early, but do any of the Lakers kids really have the look of a franchise player? No need for the Lakers to build slowly through the draft - they can attract free agents easily if they have a decent enough team. Trade the kids for guys like Cousins, George, Butler, etc., and watch the stars flock there in free agency.


Lets put it this way, I wouldn't deal our pick sight unseen for any player on the Lakers roster. Depends when we pick.
RE: RE: knicks don't have to move noah as part of a salary dump  
djm : 2/21/2017 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13366450 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13366448 djm said:


Quote:


really they don't have to do much of anything other than move any desirable veterans for young assets. Knicks don't have to be desperate. Even if Melo stays...fine...get assets for anyone you can and draft well. Keep adding assets. They have a lot more assets today than they have in DECADES. Fact. Just keep at it and try to limit the stupid tweets and public embarrassments.


Thing is, by the time the team is ready (if ever) to compete for the East, Melo's days will be over.


That's fair. Nothing we can do about it. If you can get any tangible young assets for Melo you do it but don't panic and move Melo out for an anchor or bad teammate in return. We could do worse than Carmelo Anthony on the Knicks. He's still a good player and as much as we hate this side of things he's an attraction. Even if he's a cancer, which I doubt, you don't compound things by trading him for 2-3 average players that cost a lot.
Dan would you move it for  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 1:44 pm : link
Russell?
RE: RE: Yeah nixing the Boogie deal was a mistake.  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13366731 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13366723 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


I knew it's early, but do any of the Lakers kids really have the look of a franchise player? No need for the Lakers to build slowly through the draft - they can attract free agents easily if they have a decent enough team. Trade the kids for guys like Cousins, George, Butler, etc., and watch the stars flock there in free agency.



Lets put it this way, I wouldn't deal our pick sight unseen for any player on the Lakers roster. Depends when we pick.


I'd trade a lightly protected future first for Russell or Ingram. Randle is the most intriguing laker but he'd be a questionable fit next to KP. Zubac might honestly have the highest ceiling out of everyone on the Lakers and I don't really mean that as a shot to Russ and Ingram (not entirely anyways).
RE: It's nearly impossible  
djm : 2/21/2017 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13366561 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
for any Knick fan under 50 to hate the Celtics. They have outclassed them on the court and with management the past 15 years it is somewhat staggering. If anything, Knicks fans should look up to how they run their organization.


I am 45 and I want to punch the entire city of Boston in the face. ANd that includes the semen stained shit smelling Celtics. If that's not hate...ok fine...I don't hate.
Another issue with the Lakers is that  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 1:47 pm : link
Russell, Ingram and Clarkson are all 2 guards in the NBA.
RE: Dan would you move it for  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13366735 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Russell?


Without knowing where the ping pong balls fall? No I wouldn't. I like Russell but the guy is shooting 39% from the field with a WS/48 of .032. As of right now I have at least 6-7 guys in the draft I would take over Russell (if not more) certainly Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Smith, Isaac, Markkanen (yeah not a great fit with KP), Fox, Monk and likely the French kid. If I knew for a fact we were picking 10-12 then yeah. But if the Lakers offered him right now for our pick I'd pass.
RE: RE: RE: Yeah nixing the Boogie deal was a mistake.  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 1:50 pm : link
In comment 13366740 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13366731 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13366723 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


I knew it's early, but do any of the Lakers kids really have the look of a franchise player? No need for the Lakers to build slowly through the draft - they can attract free agents easily if they have a decent enough team. Trade the kids for guys like Cousins, George, Butler, etc., and watch the stars flock there in free agency.



Lets put it this way, I wouldn't deal our pick sight unseen for any player on the Lakers roster. Depends when we pick.



I'd trade a lightly protected future first for Russell or Ingram. Randle is the most intriguing laker but he'd be a questionable fit next to KP. Zubac might honestly have the highest ceiling out of everyone on the Lakers and I don't really mean that as a shot to Russ and Ingram (not entirely anyways).


I agree with all of that. Just saying if Magic called up Phil and offered any of those guys for our pick (no protection) I'd actually pass.
RE: RE: Dan would you move it for  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13366745 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13366735 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


Russell?



Without knowing where the ping pong balls fall? No I wouldn't. I like Russell but the guy is shooting 39% from the field with a WS/48 of .032. As of right now I have at least 6-7 guys in the draft I would take over Russell (if not more) certainly Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Smith, Isaac, Markkanen (yeah not a great fit with KP), Fox, Monk and likely the French kid. If I knew for a fact we were picking 10-12 then yeah. But if the Lakers offered him right now for our pick I'd pass.


Yeah I don't think I trade a top 10-15 pick in this draft for Russell. But maybe a top 5 protected pick in 2018? Don't know much about that draft but early signs are it's not good. Once someone in the Lakers organization realizes Russ is a 2 guard things will get better for him.
RE: Another issue with the Lakers is that  
EricNY33 : 2/21/2017 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13366742 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Russell, Ingram and Clarkson are all 2 guards in the NBA.


Ingram will probably build his body and be a solid 3. He's just too thin right now but that should be the goal.
RE: RE: Another issue with the Lakers is that  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13366750 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
In comment 13366742 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Russell, Ingram and Clarkson are all 2 guards in the NBA.



Ingram will probably build his body and be a solid 3. He's just too thin right now but that should be the goal.


That's a possibility, but he has a long way to go to guard the star 3s of the NBA. How much weight can he gain before his quickness/ups start to fall off? He can be a lock down 2 guard defender and 2s won't be able to take as much advantage of his lack of strength.
Well let's hope Phil and Magic  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 2:01 pm : link
Can put something together.
RE: Well let's hope Phil and Magic  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13366767 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Can put something together.


Yes, please. Magic was quoted the other day saying it may take 5 years or so to build the Lakers up to a consistent winner - he doesn't strike me as the type to wait that long. Why make this move today if the Lakers aren't going to be aggressive at the trade deadline? They could just as easily have waited til the end of the regular season.
RE: RE: RE: Another issue with the Lakers is that  
EricNY33 : 2/21/2017 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13366762 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13366750 EricNY33 said:


Quote:


In comment 13366742 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Russell, Ingram and Clarkson are all 2 guards in the NBA.



Ingram will probably build his body and be a solid 3. He's just too thin right now but that should be the goal.



That's a possibility, but he has a long way to go to guard the star 3s of the NBA. How much weight can he gain before his quickness/ups start to fall off? He can be a lock down 2 guard defender and 2s won't be able to take as much advantage of his lack of strength.


Well he's 19 years old and hasn't even stopped growing yet. When that stops is when he can really add the bulk to his frame. I just think it would serve the Lakers better if he was a SF and since he's always played there that's probably what they envision for him.

You're right about Clarkson and Russell though. Both those guys are more natural SG's.
Not ruling out Ingram as a 3  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 2:12 pm : link
But if he can guard 2s, why not put him there? you could theoretically trot out 4 6'9"+ players without sacrificing defense and spacing (if Ingram gets his shot down, which I don't know why he wouldnt eventually).
Looks like Jeanie agrees with us - time to get aggressive...  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 2:12 pm : link
Quote:

Sam Amick Verified account
‏@sam_amick

Jeanie is done w/ Lakers' inability to get stars in Laker Land, & she had always seemed convinced Cousins could calm down in their setting.
maybe Jeanie will be open to trading the Knicks a pick for Phil  
Greg from LI : 2/21/2017 2:21 pm : link
.
Buss  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 2:44 pm : link
thought LAL was a good fit for Boogie and then allowed Magic to veto a deal over Ingram? Yikes.
RE: Buss  
nygiants16 : 2/21/2017 2:45 pm : link
In comment 13366827 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
thought LAL was a good fit for Boogie and then allowed Magic to veto a deal over Ingram? Yikes.


do we know for sure magic vetoed the deal?
RE: RE: Buss  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13366828 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13366827 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


thought LAL was a good fit for Boogie and then allowed Magic to veto a deal over Ingram? Yikes.



do we know for sure magic vetoed the deal?


It would be pretty odd for a team to allow an outgoing GM to veto a trade 3 days before they fired him don't you think? I highly doubt this decision was a sudden one. If Jeannie thought LAL was a good fit for Boogie why wouldn't she have stepped in?
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 2:55 pm : link
Agent Rob Pelinka has emerged as a front-runner to become Lakers GM under Magic Johnson, sources tell @TheVertical. Reps Harden, Kobe.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 2:56 pm : link
Zach Harper ‏@talkhoops 4h4 hours ago
More
Watched a bunch of Jonathan Isaac video and I have no idea if hell be good but holy hell Im intrigued.
More I hear about NO's  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 2:57 pm : link
FA situation next year the more I think it's not gonna work out with Boogie. Really can't see how they add to their roster without doling out multiple 1sts to get rid of their contracts. Could end up being a BKN-BOS situation again. Would love to get a piece of the action
Wow.  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 3:03 pm : link
The Blazers are taking calls and listening to trade offers for Damian Lillard. (via @AmicoHoops)
Bill Reiter says Kupchak blew the Boogie deal  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 3:04 pm : link
One source close to the situation said Kupchak and Jeanie Buss had not spoken since Nov. 1, despite her role as president of basketball operations and the power that gave her to fire Kupchak, and that her brother had resorted to communicating with his sister only through lawyers. The same source said Jeanie never was informed of a potential DeMarcus Cousins trade over the weekend and described a chaotic scene in which Jim Buss insisted low-level basketball officials vote on the proposed deal while Jeanie and Magic were left in the dark.
This is a perfect exempt of what needs to change, the source said.
Wait Till Mom Finds Out  
Suburbanites : 2/21/2017 3:06 pm : link
Wow, she fired her own brother what a biotch. No wonder Phil has been nothing but a tormented soul since he got here. Can you imagine how much testosterone she's sucked out of him.
Link - ( New Window )
,  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 3:08 pm : link
Zach Harper ‏@talkhoops 44s45 seconds ago
More
Can confirm @ESPNSteinLine report Pistons are open to inquiries for Drummond. Sounds more exploratory, gauging temperature of interest.
RE: Wait Till Mom Finds Out  
Giantology : 2/21/2017 3:13 pm : link
In comment 13366862 Suburbanites said:
Quote:
Wow, she fired her own brother what a biotch. No wonder Phil has been nothing but a tormented soul since he got here. Can you imagine how much testosterone she's sucked out of him. Link - ( New Window )


Her brother sucked, has sucked, and the Lakers needed to go in a different direction. Not sure you how you interpretted that as her being a biotch or "sucking the testosterone" out of Phil, but it seems like you might have some problems with women.
RE: RE: RE: Buss  
djm : 2/21/2017 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13366839 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13366828 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13366827 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


thought LAL was a good fit for Boogie and then allowed Magic to veto a deal over Ingram? Yikes.



do we know for sure magic vetoed the deal?



It would be pretty odd for a team to allow an outgoing GM to veto a trade 3 days before they fired him don't you think? I highly doubt this decision was a sudden one. If Jeannie thought LAL was a good fit for Boogie why wouldn't she have stepped in?


I was thinking that the lakers wacked the GM because he didn't pull the trigger on boogie. Could be a stretch...who knows.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Buss  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13366875 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13366839 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13366828 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13366827 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


thought LAL was a good fit for Boogie and then allowed Magic to veto a deal over Ingram? Yikes.



do we know for sure magic vetoed the deal?



It would be pretty odd for a team to allow an outgoing GM to veto a trade 3 days before they fired him don't you think? I highly doubt this decision was a sudden one. If Jeannie thought LAL was a good fit for Boogie why wouldn't she have stepped in?



I was thinking that the lakers wacked the GM because he didn't pull the trigger on boogie. Could be a stretch...who knows.


I just don't understand why Buss would allow Kupchak to have ANY say if she wanted Boogie so badly. The claim is the GM/Buss didn't even speak since November, how can you both be hands on/furious and let the GM do as he pleases?
RE: More I hear about NO's  
djm : 2/21/2017 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13366848 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
FA situation next year the more I think it's not gonna work out with Boogie. Really can't see how they add to their roster without doling out multiple 1sts to get rid of their contracts. Could end up being a BKN-BOS situation again. Would love to get a piece of the action


I don't think NO ends up that desperate. They have two monster players in the front court. Both young. If I am them I grind things out for as long as possible and not make any panic desperate deals. Maybe they go the nets route but I don't think they have to.
sorry I am a little late to the boogie LAL GM fuck up  
djm : 2/21/2017 3:21 pm : link
I posted before reading those last few posts. Looks like that was in fact the case. Not surprised.

Magic is going to stir shit up in LA. That's for damn sure. May it blow up in your face, magic.
Dan  
djm : 2/21/2017 3:22 pm : link
that is weird. But then again people are weird lol.
RE: maybe Jeanie will be open to trading the Knicks a pick for Phil  
Eli Wilson : 2/21/2017 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13366796 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


And take Rambis with him. I'm not sure how the league "allows" his wife to be an executive with the Lakers, while he is coaching the Knicks.
Would  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 3:25 pm : link
be pretty shocking to see Lillard or Drummond moved but fun to see "big names" available.
So long, Fredo Buss.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/21/2017 3:26 pm : link
.
RE: RE: maybe Jeanie will be open to trading the Knicks a pick for Phil  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/21/2017 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13366883 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
In comment 13366796 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


.



And take Rambis with him. I'm not sure how the league "allows" his wife to be an executive with the Lakers, while he is coaching the Knicks.


They're not married, and they're no longer engaged. I think they're actually split. It was in the news a bit ago.
Shaq's  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 3:28 pm : link
son vs. Manute Bol's son (Bol Bol) people are going nuts for Bol Bol
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: More I hear about NO's  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 3:29 pm : link
In comment 13366879 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13366848 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


FA situation next year the more I think it's not gonna work out with Boogie. Really can't see how they add to their roster without doling out multiple 1sts to get rid of their contracts. Could end up being a BKN-BOS situation again. Would love to get a piece of the action



I don't think NO ends up that desperate. They have two monster players in the front court. Both young. If I am them I grind things out for as long as possible and not make any panic desperate deals. Maybe they go the nets route but I don't think they have to.


Well it would take tremendous patience on NO's part. Their roster is awful. AWFUL. They probably have the worst 4-15 guys in the NBA after Davis, DMC and Holiday. Playoffs are no guanrantes, and I'd say odds are against them getting the 8th seed.

Then you have the risk of Holiday leaving. And if you keep Holiday, they only have the MLE to upgrade their roster. Then you assume Davis and Holiday stay healthy.

Not saying they didn't make a smart move buying super low on Dmc. But they're gonna feel the burn of paying Asik, Moore, Ajinca, and Hill heart $40M a year. Their terrible management of the last 3-4 years is going to bite them in the ass for making a move like this. Not even factoring in how injury-prone Davis and Holiday are. Everything has to go right for them and nothing can really go wrong for them the next season and a half.
marc stein on zach lowes podcast  
nygiants16 : 2/21/2017 3:32 pm : link
said he believes the tose to minnesota deal is happening, i dont know if it was his opinion or based on what he was hearing
RE: RE: RE: maybe Jeanie will be open to trading the Knicks a pick for Phil  
Eli Wilson : 2/21/2017 3:34 pm : link
In comment 13366888 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13366883 Eli Wilson said:


Quote:


In comment 13366796 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


.



And take Rambis with him. I'm not sure how the league "allows" his wife to be an executive with the Lakers, while he is coaching the Knicks.



They're not married, and they're no longer engaged. I think they're actually split. It was in the news a bit ago.


Sorry, I meant Kurt Rambis, whose wife works for the Lakers as well.
If it's true that Minny approached the Knicks  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 3:35 pm : link
I can't see how it doesn't get done. I hope KOQ isn't just some throw in - he should net a draft pick from Minny, or be moved separately for a draft pick.
I'm actually slowly starting to convince myself  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 3:36 pm : link
that NO trading for DMC was a bad move, not even for cousins attitude issues. God why couldn't Davis just wait out his deal and sign in Chicago?
RE: RE: Wait Till Mom Finds Out  
Suburbanites : 2/21/2017 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13366869 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 13366862 Suburbanites said:


Quote:


Wow, she fired her own brother what a biotch. No wonder Phil has been nothing but a tormented soul since he got here. Can you imagine how much testosterone she's sucked out of him. Link - ( New Window )



Her brother sucked, has sucked, and the Lakers needed to go in a different direction. Not sure you how you interpretted that as her being a biotch or "sucking the testosterone" out of Phil, but it seems
like you might have some problems with women.


Oh go fuck yourself, I was joking around and you have to turn a paragraph in jest into a woe me misogyny whine. What qualifications do you have? You can't even spell interpreted correctly, dumb ass. Got to love the sanctimonious tough guy act from some guy in his moms basement.
RE: marc stein on zach lowes podcast  
Jon in NYC : 2/21/2017 3:45 pm : link
In comment 13366896 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
said he believes the tose to minnesota deal is happening, i dont know if it was his opinion or based on what he was hearing


It just makes too much sense not to. Rose is a Thibs player and Rubio is exactly what Phil/Horny have in mind as a PG. A true thinker who can play D and make his teammates better.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 3:47 pm : link
rather keep KOQ than include him and take back Muhammad. He's a block hole.
.  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 3:57 pm : link
Best part of Rubio potentially being a Knick will be the articles about him working with shooting coach X and how great he looks! #Knicks
RE: .  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 4:02 pm : link
In comment 13366921 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Best part of Rubio potentially being a Knick will be the articles about him working with shooting coach X and how great he looks! #Knicks


I'd do a Rose for Rubio swap but the Knicks need to get a sweetener for taking the extra years on his deal. Pick swap/ 2nd round pick- something.
Rubio/Smart  
Deej : 2/21/2017 4:03 pm : link
no idea if we can get either one, but if we're going to rebuild and lose for a few years I'd very much like to do it playing entergetic, committed defense. Rather than track meet no-D games. Lay down a foundation of defense and commitment.
I  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 4:05 pm : link
can't imagine Rubio would stop them from drafting a PG. Might stop them from reaching for one.
RE: I'd  
Greg from LI : 2/21/2017 4:05 pm : link
In comment 13366911 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
rather keep KOQ than include him and take back Muhammad. He's a block hole.


You know, since I never watch Minnesota games I took a look at his stats. Man, you're not kidding about being a black hole - his ast/36 is 0.9. That's unspeakably bad.
RE: RE: I'd  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13366939 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13366911 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


rather keep KOQ than include him and take back Muhammad. He's a block hole.



You know, since I never watch Minnesota games I took a look at his stats. Man, you're not kidding about being a black hole - his ast/36 is 0.9. That's unspeakably bad.


I was just telling EricNY33 that I've honestly NEVER seen a 3 play as much as he does with so few assists. It seems nearly impossible to do.
am I correct in thinking  
djm : 2/21/2017 4:09 pm : link
that Minny likely couldn't trade for Rose before the Knicks did? That they basically couldn't make the salaries work or didn't have the resources to make a deal with Chicago? Just wanted to eliminate the concern that Minny would have just traded for Rose last year if they wanted him so badly now . I guess they didn't have the guy like Lopez and cheap filler Grant to deal?

I just hate getting my hopes up at the deadline for the Knicks to deal vets for picks or assets only to be disappointed.
RE: I  
Jon in NYC : 2/21/2017 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13366938 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
can't imagine Rubio would stop them from drafting a PG. Might stop them from reaching for one.


This. Rubio is big enough that he can guard 1s and 2s. This frees them up to get someone like Monk who is a combo guard.
even for Rubio  
djm : 2/21/2017 4:12 pm : link
I just hate watching opposing PGs shred the Knicks every night. Rose in the right place could serve a purpose but I think Rubio could be better than Rose here with the Knicks. He plays D and passes. At the very least i'd be curious to see the differences in team play from Rose to Rubio. Really it would be fascinating to see. Polar opposites.
Schmeelk  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 4:12 pm : link
on the deal-
Link - ( New Window )
you know  
djm : 2/21/2017 4:14 pm : link
the BBALL book probably says the Knicks would benefit greatly from a Rose for Rubio trade. Maybe I am a hopeless dreamer but I could see Rubio peaking here in NY. Knicks really need a gritty PG type more than a star scoring PG.
RE: even for Rubio  
dep026 : 2/21/2017 4:15 pm : link
In comment 13366947 djm said:
Quote:
I just hate watching opposing PGs shred the Knicks every night. Rose in the right place could serve a purpose but I think Rubio could be better than Rose here with the Knicks. He plays D and passes. At the very least i'd be curious to see the differences in team play from Rose to Rubio. Really it would be fascinating to see. Polar opposites.


1. If you trade for Rubio, you need to trade Melo. Rubio's strength of a passer would be negated with Melo's iso ball. Getting a guy like Smart somehow, would give you a good defensive backcourt (even though personally I find rubio's defense overrated.)
2. Rubio would be the point guard to vaunt Porz into the leading man, but you would need a shooter to pair with them. A guy like Monk would be ideal, but may be unrealistic. But then in the draft, you would look at a tatum or Isaacs.
3. Even with Rubio, Rambis needs to be fire, as his defensive scheme is worst than players defensive abilities - which is say something.
Isaac  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 4:17 pm : link
sounds like he has beast upside. I've only seen him once and his body (how thin he was) really stood out but I'm trying not to get my hopes up on one of the big PG's or Jackson so Isaac stands out as "hmmm"
RE: RE: RE: I'd  
Deej : 2/21/2017 4:21 pm : link
In comment 13366941 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13366939 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13366911 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


rather keep KOQ than include him and take back Muhammad. He's a block hole.



You know, since I never watch Minnesota games I took a look at his stats. Man, you're not kidding about being a black hole - his ast/36 is 0.9. That's unspeakably bad.



I was just telling EricNY33 that I've honestly NEVER seen a 3 play as much as he does with so few assists. It seems nearly impossible to do.


Oubre is no "fan of passing"
Link - ( New Window )
It's a fun year to actually have a lottery pick.  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 4:22 pm : link
Five good PGs, Monk, Jackson, Isaac, Tatum, Bridges. Any of them would help us, regardless of what happens in the next 24 hours.
Yuck  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 4:23 pm : link
Really not a fan of players like that (I'd obviously take 21 year old Oubre as part of a Melo deal and hope for the best)
RE: Isaac  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13366954 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
sounds like he has beast upside. I've only seen him once and his body (how thin he was) really stood out but I'm trying not to get my hopes up on one of the big PG's or Jackson so Isaac stands out as "hmmm"


Isaac, tatum, Jackson. Any one of them. All of them have good two way potential. Weight is more of a concern for Isaac than Jackson as he'll be a 3 in the NBA, but he's more athletic than say a Brandon Ingram.
Nets expected to land a #1  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 4:24 pm : link
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojVerticalNBA 6s7 seconds ago
More
Teams pursuing Brooklyns Bojan Bogdanovic suggest theyre ramping up on offers, process moving closer to Nets choosing best available deal.
RE: Schmeelk  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 4:24 pm : link
In comment 13366948 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
on the deal- Link - ( New Window )


Does Schmeelk really think the Knicks have any shot on Steph Curry, Lowry, CP in free agency? There are reasons not to trade for Rubio. Having cap room for a marquee free agent isn't one of them.
RE: Isaac  
Greg from LI : 2/21/2017 4:25 pm : link
In comment 13366954 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
sounds like he has beast upside. I've only seen him once and his body (how thin he was) really stood out but I'm trying not to get my hopes up on one of the big PG's or Jackson so Isaac stands out as "hmmm"


Isaac is skinny, but 1)he's only 19 and can fill out 2)he can play a hard-nosed game when he has too. If we don't end up with one of the point guards, then Isaac is my next choice.
RE: RE: Schmeelk  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 4:26 pm : link
In comment 13366971 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13366948 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


on the deal- Link - ( New Window )



Does Schmeelk really think the Knicks have any shot on Steph Curry, Lowry, CP in free agency? There are reasons not to trade for Rubio. Having cap room for a marquee free agent isn't one of them.


CP3 already said he's staying in LA.
RE: RE: Isaac  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 4:30 pm : link
In comment 13366974 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13366954 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


sounds like he has beast upside. I've only seen him once and his body (how thin he was) really stood out but I'm trying not to get my hopes up on one of the big PG's or Jackson so Isaac stands out as "hmmm"



Isaac is skinny, but 1)he's only 19 and can fill out 2)he can play a hard-nosed game when he has too. If we don't end up with one of the point guards, then Isaac is my next choice.


Physically/build wise he sort of reminds me of Bosh at the same stage but yeah he didn't shy away from contact. He's very interesting
pfft. we have seen that making cap room for FAs is  
Heisenberg : 2/21/2017 4:31 pm : link
overrated. Waiting for CP3, etc is dumb.
That Sckmelk piece  
Deej : 2/21/2017 4:34 pm : link
is terrible. It reads like he doesnt know much. And not to stick up for Rose too much, but calling a trade of Rose "addition by subtraction" is silly.
RE: It's a fun year to actually have a lottery pick.  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 4:37 pm : link
In comment 13366964 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Five good PGs, Monk, Jackson, Isaac, Tatum, Bridges. Any of them would help us, regardless of what happens in the next 24 hours.


Dream scenario with the 1st overall pick, who you taking for the Knicks? For me its Ball, Fultz or Smith. I look forward to watching more of these guys.
Here's a stat that absolutely boggled my mind  
dep026 : 2/21/2017 4:42 pm : link
the Knicks are 13th in the NBA in FG% allowed. I thought they would be near the bottom.
Said on another thread after watching Smith  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 4:43 pm : link
Against ND this weekend that I don't like the player at all.
I've seen Lonzo Ball the most  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 4:44 pm : link
so I'd probably lean towards him, but I haven't allowed myself to dream of such things. My magic number all along has been top 7 (PGs+Monk+Jackson), but Isaac and Tatum have made top 9 acceptable for me.
I think I'd go Fultz at #1  
Greg from LI : 2/21/2017 4:45 pm : link
.
RE: I've seen Lonzo Ball the most  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13366995 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
so I'd probably lean towards him, but I haven't allowed myself to dream of such things. My magic number all along has been top 7 (PGs+Monk+Jackson), but Isaac and Tatum have made top 9 acceptable for me.


Ball reminds me a lot of Jason Kid. Great passing and awesome quick outlets. Would be a dream to get him.
RE: Here's a stat that absolutely boggled my mind  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13366993 dep026 said:
Quote:
the Knicks are 13th in the NBA in FG% allowed. I thought they would be near the bottom.


They're 25th in defensive efficiency.
RE: I've seen Lonzo Ball the most  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 4:48 pm : link
In comment 13366995 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
so I'd probably lean towards him, but I haven't allowed myself to dream of such things. My magic number all along has been top 7 (PGs+Monk+Jackson), but Isaac and Tatum have made top 9 acceptable for me.


I'm pretty much right there with you. I probably take Isaac/Tatum over monk tho.
RE: RE: Here's a stat that absolutely boggled my mind  
dep026 : 2/21/2017 4:50 pm : link
In comment 13366999 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13366993 dep026 said:


Quote:


the Knicks are 13th in the NBA in FG% allowed. I thought they would be near the bottom.



They're 25th in defensive efficiency.


Oh I know they are bad.... I just thought teams shot a lot better against them.
Yeesh  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 4:55 pm : link
Denver is dead last in DEF efficiency. That's my one fear with Jokic, Denver needs to surround him with 4 guys that will play balls to the wall defense.
Knicks Schedule  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 4:57 pm : link
Knicks will be lucky to win 7 more games to get to 30 wins. Tough schedule and I'd bet them going under. Getting to the "4th seed" in the lottery gives them a 38% chance at top 3. Huge jump up from 8th currently and 8% at top 3.
RE: RE: RE: Here's a stat that absolutely boggled my mind  
Deej : 2/21/2017 5:02 pm : link
In comment 13367006 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13366999 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13366993 dep026 said:


Quote:


the Knicks are 13th in the NBA in FG% allowed. I thought they would be near the bottom.



They're 25th in defensive efficiency.



Oh I know they are bad.... I just thought teams shot a lot better against them.


eFG% allowed is 9th BEST because their 3 point D is actually decent (3P% against is also 9th). What does stick out in our stats allowed is ORB allowed (worst), FTA (7th worst, 2nd worst in foul rate), and TOs caused (4th worst). Stats are referenced per-possession.

Knicks are bad at pressuring the ball. They have bad non-shooting outcomes on D.
RE: Knicks Schedule  
Deej : 2/21/2017 5:03 pm : link
In comment 13367016 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Knicks will be lucky to win 7 more games to get to 30 wins. Tough schedule and I'd bet them going under. Getting to the "4th seed" in the lottery gives them a 38% chance at top 3. Huge jump up from 8th currently and 8% at top 3.


Melo and KP are shooters. Shooters can ALWAYS go off. Who had us beating SAS? I'd be surprised if the current roster closes that bad, especially if KP and Noah get healthy.
I think we end up with 32-33 wins  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 5:05 pm : link
Barring any trades. If we sell off rose and KOQ for picks/useless expirings I think 30 might be accurate.
Wouldnt it be so the knicks  
dep026 : 2/21/2017 5:05 pm : link
to have a diasterous season, finish with a top 4 pick, while trading for Rubio - and stuck with his contract when you could get a stud PG in the draft? haha
A 1 for Bojan would be great  
hitdog42 : 2/21/2017 5:07 pm : link
Stockpile some assets-
If could then trade brook for a 1 and 2 and then take on ezeli for comp- they will have something going for the offseason rfa attempts
Let's see what the roster looks like in 48 hours.  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 5:08 pm : link
If it stays as is, they'll at least be competitive (unfortunately). Maybe Rubio even gives them a spark on offense with his unselfishness. That's why I'd like to deal off some spare parts - Lance, O'Quinn, Jennings, etc. - to at least chip away at our depth. More minutes for Plumlee, Baker and N'Dour is good for development AND for tanking purposes.
RE: I think we end up with 32-33 wins  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 5:10 pm : link
In comment 13367024 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Barring any trades. If we sell off rose and KOQ for picks/useless expirings I think 30 might be accurate.


If that deadline passes and there's no deal for Rose, why not just buy him out? What purpose does it serve keeping him for the last 25 games?
RE: Wouldnt it be so the knicks  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 5:10 pm : link
In comment 13367025 dep026 said:
Quote:
to have a diasterous season, finish with a top 4 pick, while trading for Rubio - and stuck with his contract when you could get a stud PG in the draft? haha


Why would that be a big deal? He only has 2 years left, so 1 before he becomes an expiring.
RE: Wouldnt it be so the knicks  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 5:10 pm : link
In comment 13367025 dep026 said:
Quote:
to have a diasterous season, finish with a top 4 pick, while trading for Rubio - and stuck with his contract when you could get a stud PG in the draft? haha


There isn't a chance in hell they'd pass up those top PGs because Rubio is on the roster. Minny took Dunn despite having Rubio.
RE: A 1 for Bojan would be great  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 5:12 pm : link
In comment 13367027 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
Stockpile some assets-
If could then trade brook for a 1 and 2 and then take on ezeli for comp- they will have something going for the offseason rfa attempts


Mirotic might be very gettable, could be a good reward if he can get his 3 point shot figured out.
RE: Wouldnt it be so the knicks  
Deej : 2/21/2017 5:15 pm : link
In comment 13367025 dep026 said:
Quote:
to have a diasterous season, finish with a top 4 pick, while trading for Rubio - and stuck with his contract when you could get a stud PG in the draft? haha


I struggle to see how we could be stuck with Rubio. Contract runs 2 more seasons. Even assuming it is untradeable, so what? 16-18 minutes as the backup 1, plus time in 2 PG guard sets. Fundamentally, I dont see Melo, Noah, KP, Lee, Fultz/Smith/Ball competing for a title in 2018-19. And then Rubio is done.

More realistic to me is that he has some value in 2018-19 to someone who could use some PG depth/defense. I'd also like to see what he brings as a bench guard, as his athleticism might shine thru better in the less structured game that comes when the starters sit.
Can we just wrap this up already?  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 5:56 pm : link
Quote:
David Aldridge

@daldridgetnt

Wolves pursuit of Derrick Rose still very strongThibs wants to do this, says league source w/knowledgebut MIN absolutely keeping Dunn.
RE: Can we just wrap this up already?  
Jon in NYC : 2/21/2017 5:58 pm : link
In comment 13367058 bceagle05 said:
Quote:


Quote:


David Aldridge

@daldridgetnt

Wolves pursuit of Derrick Rose still very strongThibs wants to do this, says league source w/knowledgebut MIN absolutely keeping Dunn.



Was Dunn even up for grabs?
Yeah that was a weird thing to add.  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 6:02 pm : link
I think we all figure it's for Rubio by now.
RE: RE: Can we just wrap this up already?  
Deej : 2/21/2017 6:05 pm : link
In comment 13367060 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13367058 bceagle05 said:


Quote:




Quote:


David Aldridge

@daldridgetnt

Wolves pursuit of Derrick Rose still very strongThibs wants to do this, says league source w/knowledgebut MIN absolutely keeping Dunn.





Was Dunn even up for grabs?


For Rose? I wouldnt think so. I think it is just a statement that just because they want to trade for Rose, a PG, does not mean that they are looking to move on from Dunn, another PG.
Read that Celts are more interested in  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/21/2017 6:18 pm : link
George than Butler.
Why  
Jon in NYC : 2/21/2017 7:15 pm : link
aren't the Wolves better?

Rubio, Lavine, Wiggins, KAT, Dunn, Dieng. They have the third worst record in the West.
RE: Why  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 7:22 pm : link
In comment 13367128 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
aren't the Wolves better?

Rubio, Lavine, Wiggins, KAT, Dunn, Dieng. They have the third worst record in the West.


The offensive reputation for all of those guys are levels ahead of where their defense stands. Defense comes much, much later in any player's career.
And Dunn  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 7:22 pm : link
has arguably been the worst player in the league at the amount of minutes he's gotten.
A quiet day for a lot of talk  
Carl in CT : 2/21/2017 7:31 pm : link
Wonder what tomorrow brings.
.  
Anakim : 2/21/2017 7:41 pm : link
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account‏@WojVerticalNBA
The Rockets are sending Corey Brewer and a first-round pick to the Lakers for Lou Williams, league source tells @TheVertical.
RE: A quiet day for a lot of talk  
nygiants16 : 2/21/2017 7:42 pm : link
In comment 13367155 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Wonder what tomorrow brings.


everything seems to happen at night
Who  
Jon in NYC : 2/21/2017 7:43 pm : link
would you rather have, Lou Williams or Courtney Lee?
RE: Who  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 7:50 pm : link
In comment 13367164 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
would you rather have, Lou Williams or Courtney Lee?


In a vacuum I take Williams. If I need a starting SG, I take Lee.
Noah "tweaked" his hamstring again  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/21/2017 8:11 pm : link
Willy starting Thursday night per bleacher report.
Why do I get the feeling that we'll all be disappointed Thursday?  
yatqb : 2/21/2017 8:11 pm : link
.
RE: Why do I get the feeling that we'll all be disappointed Thursday?  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 8:18 pm : link
In comment 13367202 yatqb said:
Quote:
.


In what way?
RE: RE: Why do I get the feeling that we'll all be disappointed Thursday?  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 8:19 pm : link
In comment 13367216 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13367202 yatqb said:


Quote:


.



In what way?


Nvm, thought you were suggesting we were going to beat the Cavs lol.
Picks  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 8:25 pm : link
But I thought no teams would trade a 1st round pick because no one can beat the Cavs/ Warriors......

I'd much rather have Courtney Lee. Lou Williams might be the worst defender in the league.

Courtney Lee and KOQ to the Wizards for picks. They need bench help....
RE: Why do I get the feeling that we'll all be disappointed Thursday?  
Jon in NYC : 2/21/2017 8:26 pm : link
In comment 13367202 yatqb said:
Quote:
.


I guess it depends on your expectation. I'd expect the Rose for Rubio trade to go down, and I think it's a safe bet that Jennings and/or KOQ goes for a pick. Melo's almost certainly staying.
RE: Picks  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 8:35 pm : link
In comment 13367228 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
But I thought no teams would trade a 1st round pick because no one can beat the Cavs/ Warriors......

I'd much rather have Courtney Lee. Lou Williams might be the worst defender in the league.

Courtney Lee and KOQ to the Wizards for picks. They need bench help....


I don't think anyone was saying NO 1st rounders would be traded. Like Deej said, not all 1st rounders are equal. The Rockets pick could very easily be the 28th pick in the draft and half of Lou Will's value is his contract. Lee's certainly not un-tradeable but his contract isn't amazing, either. He's getting twice what Williams is getting.
Kmart  
DanMetroMan : 2/21/2017 8:52 pm : link
shits on Phil and Noah wow lol
Link - ( New Window )
Somebody give us a crumb or something.  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 10:01 pm : link
Has Isaiah Thomas posted any more eyeball emojis?
RE: Somebody give us a crumb or something.  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 10:12 pm : link
In comment 13367343 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Has Isaiah Thomas posted any more eyeball emojis?


Umm...Emmanuel Mudiay is expected to play on Thursday?
I get why we are trading Rose.  
Keith : 2/21/2017 10:20 pm : link
I understand he has no future in NY and he's not really a good fit with this group. I also get that Rubio is a better fit with this cast, but Rose for Rubio makes no fucking sense to me. The whole idea of trading for rose was to give him a tryout and then decide if we want to build with him. It didn't work, so we get to move on pretty easily. What exactly does Rubio do for us? Make us slightly better in the short term which is the opposite of what we need to be doing. Nobody is taking him now and I doubt he will be movable next year too. If we are taking Rubio to get another asset, that works for me. A young player with potential or a pick makes it worth it. Rose for Rubio would be the Knicks of old. Hell, we might as well throw in a 2nd or Jennings or O'Quinn to get it done too!

Reggie Jackson? That would be way worse than Rubio....way worse.

I have to believe that these rumors are teams and agents using the media to strengthen their position. Hopefully Phil is smarter than that. We will see.

RE: I get why we are trading Rose.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/21/2017 10:24 pm : link
In comment 13367363 Keith said:
Quote:
I understand he has no future in NY and he's not really a good fit with this group. I also get that Rubio is a better fit with this cast, but Rose for Rubio makes no fucking sense to me. The whole idea of trading for rose was to give him a tryout and then decide if we want to build with him. It didn't work, so we get to move on pretty easily. What exactly does Rubio do for us? Make us slightly better in the short term which is the opposite of what we need to be doing. Nobody is taking him now and I doubt he will be movable next year too. If we are taking Rubio to get another asset, that works for me. A young player with potential or a pick makes it worth it. Rose for Rubio would be the Knicks of old. Hell, we might as well throw in a 2nd or Jennings or O'Quinn to get it done too!

Reggie Jackson? That would be way worse than Rubio....way worse.

I have to believe that these rumors are teams and agents using the media to strengthen their position. Hopefully Phil is smarter than that. We will see.


Part of what the Knicks need to be doing is developing Porzingis. He's not going to get better surrounded by ball hogs, but he's also not going to get better surrounded by garbage playing for 15 win teams.

You have to field a team, and Rubio isn't a long term commitment.
Rubio is about 2 years longer than he should be.  
Keith : 2/21/2017 10:29 pm : link
Why are we trading for a 3 year contract(that nobody else is interested in right now) that maybe makes us a little better which is the worst thing we can do right now. Because it might make KP better and we need bodies? That's ludicrous.

We need to stop making excuses for KP. Stop blaming Rose for KP's stagnation. KP has not played well this year and that isn't Rose's fault. Rose isn't a facilitator, but he also doesn't hog the ball until he has to. He's had to a lot this year. I understand that his style isn't really going to help KP a ton, but it's not his fault KP hasn't progressed.
Sure it's his fault. There's plenty of fault to go around.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/21/2017 10:35 pm : link
From coaching to roster to the player himself. He's still not going to get better playing with teammates that don't pass the ball or do a good job of running the offense the coach is trying to run. It's been half a season and KP himself is on the record as saying he still can't figure out how to play with Rose.

Nobody has benefitted from Rose's play this season except Rose demonstrating that he can still score when he wants to.
I'm rooting for a Rubio trade  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 10:37 pm : link
Because I don't expect this team to spend that money on anything wiser come this offseason.
What about a Rose and KOQ for  
NoGainDayne : 2/21/2017 10:38 pm : link
Rubio and their 1st rounder, who says no? KOQ is an asset on a good contract Rubio is a bad contract. They get to make a push this year and have more cap room this summer
RE: What about a Rose and KOQ for  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 10:39 pm : link
In comment 13367380 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
Rubio and their 1st rounder, who says no? KOQ is an asset on a good contract Rubio is a bad contract. They get to make a push this year and have more cap room this summer


Minnesota says no. They're picking higher than the Knicks right now. That pick is worth a lot more than KOQ.
Also why downplay the importance of getting his development right?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/21/2017 10:40 pm : link
The long term future of this franchise hinges on what he turns out to be. You don't just shrug your shoulders at that and lust after ping pong balls.
RE: I'm rooting for a Rubio trade  
bceagle05 : 2/21/2017 10:41 pm : link
In comment 13367379 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Because I don't expect this team to spend that money on anything wiser come this offseason.


Agreed. I don't want Jrue Holiday here on a $100+ million contract. Rubio's a tradeable asset down the line who won't prevent us from drafting a PG this year. I worry about a short-term bump in wins, but hopefully we deal off another piece or two to negate that.
RE: RE: I'm rooting for a Rubio trade  
giantsfan44ab : 2/21/2017 10:50 pm : link
In comment 13367386 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
In comment 13367379 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Because I don't expect this team to spend that money on anything wiser come this offseason.



Agreed. I don't want Jrue Holiday here on a $100+ million contract. Rubio's a tradeable asset down the line who won't prevent us from drafting a PG this year. I worry about a short-term bump in wins, but hopefully we deal off another piece or two to negate that.


See what I don't get is that there's no indication player values are adjusting quickly to the now non-increasing salary cap. Guys like cousins and Paul George are expected to get $200M deals. That's the point of the new CBA right? Give the stars a bigger share of the pot so they have less incentive to leave. By default that means everyone else should be making less, right?

Then why the hell are guys like Jrue Holiday, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, and Jeff Teague expected to get max/near-max deals in the near future? You'd think teams would learn from the Solomon hill and Joakim Noah deals of last season. Teams who will be giving these max contracts to the "pretty good but not great" class of players will be in Deep shit in 3-4 years. Which is why I'm not all that upset if we don't have cap space in the near future. Wait it out, there will be plenty of bad contracts teams will pay to get rid of them. And after that happens there may be yet a time again when you can find Jae Crowders on $6M annual contracts.
Rubio  
TyreeHelmet : 2/21/2017 10:56 pm : link
Trading Rose for Rubio is essentially signing Rubio to a 2 year deal for 28 million in the offseason. That's a very reasonable contract for a starting point guard. I also like the idea of Rubio playing with KP and other young guys. And it would be nice to have a decent defender at the point. Haven't had that since.... Charlie Ward maybe?

Just listened to latest Woj podcast. Few tidbits.

-Knicks are trying really hard to move Rose. Calling around for him and desperately want to trade him. Said it shows they have no interest in resigning him. Doesn't think they can get back much- maybe a bottom of the league PG.
- Doesn't sound like Melo is getting traded. When they called around to gauge his value, teams said they would take him as giveaway and wouldn't give up much. Believes they will revisit it in the offseason but described him as just above a "giveaway" player. Not getting lottery pick or valuable young players for him.
They passed the point of no return with melo one year ago  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/21/2017 11:00 pm : link
maybe two years ago was their window to deal him for a package that could set up the team's future.

He's gonna be here, probably for his whole remaining contract.
RE: They passed the point of no return with melo one year ago  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 2/22/2017 6:22 am : link
In comment 13367393 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
maybe two years ago was their window to deal him for a package that could set up the team's future.

He's gonna be here, probably for his whole remaining contract.


Unfortunately, that is probably true.
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