I had a story up on this for about two minutes yesterday, but Eric pulled it down because it had a link to a GoFundMe site. I understand the logic behind his prohibition against charity request links, but I still wanted to mention the story. I contributed yesterday. You can find the site if you like, and I don't claim to know how the proceeds will be monitored and/or used. This is as tough a story as I have seen in a while.
This poor kid, Jeremiah Rivera, a 5 year old who lives in East New York, was attacked by a pit bull who had escaped from his cage, and the kid was protecting his 1 and 3 year old siblings. The father, who had been napping, finally pulled the dog off. The kid had roughly 2000 stitches and needs full-blown facial reconstruction. The NY Post article, linked, has the cost estimated at $100,000. They have raised 1/10th of that.
If anyone has contacts at sports teams that would like to get involved, it would go a long way. The Giants, of course, but even more the Nets and Islanders, since they are domiciled in Brooklyn. This is something they might care about. I have a fantasy of the kid, post-reconstruction or rapped in bandages, sitting court-side at a Nets game.
Thanks for reading.
A very tough story. - (
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In comment 13366863 gidiefor said:
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are not the problem -- it's the humans that raise them and teach them to be aggressive that are the problem
I own a dog that is part pit bull and she is the sweetest, most loving animal I've ever been associated with
Yah but you don't really hear about this type of thing with other breeds, it's always Pits and Rots that have the potential, and people always blame the owner. I don't buy that every single time. You will often hear after these reports that the "dog never bit anybody" and "was always a sweet dog." Sorry but it's in their DNA. Rarely do you hear, oh a German Sheperd did it, or a Golden retriever did it. I am sure it happens with other breeds, but is much, much rarer.
Clams - that is shear ignorance
Gidie - Dude...c'mon man! You may be a moderator now but how does that give you that right to call what I've said "shear ignorance"
On this site it shows the top 10.....just to preview, it's not even close, the Rots and Pits attack far more than any other breed -
http://dogs.petbreeds.com/stories/2759/dogs-fatal-attacks
The American Pit Bull Terrier is responsible for hundreds of more attacks than any other breed. Despite these numbers, Pitt Bull (and Rottweiler) owners will tell you that the breed has an unfair reputation. Many people say that the fault lies with people who fail to train the dogs, or who treat the dogs poorly. According to a statement to ABC News by Randall Lockwood, vice president of the Humane Society, “It’s not a Rottweiler problem or a pit bull problem. It’s a people problem.”
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NOT TRYING to miller this thread into a gun discussion. We can wait for the next inevitable mass-shooting for that painfully tired discussion (shouldn't be too long a wait). But at least pro-gun folks have an amendment in the Constitution upon which to base their argument.
Above, I wrote that I thought pit-bulls were "unnecessary"; my point is there are plenty of other breeds of dogs which people can own and enjoy. Is there some particular reason people are compelled to own a pit-bull? Is there some reason to own a pit-bull instead of a lab or jack-russell? Science and facts aside, clearly the vast majority of people perceive pit-bulls as being dangerous. Why then the need to own an animal that so many people will perceive to be dangerous? Considering the fact that there are so many dogs who need a home, why pick one that was intentionally, or otherwise predisposed to violently attack humans?
I know people are attached to their pets - not trying to be a dick or question peoples good intentions and compassion for animals. Its just that to me these pit-bulls seem to be a completely unnecessary risk.
This.
Is.
Not.
True.
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why pick one that was intentionally, or otherwise predisposed to violently attack humans?
This.
Is.
Not.
True.
Even assuming its not "true" (and as a casual observer, it doesn't seem to me that you have the benefit of facts on your side), you can't possibly write with any credibility that the perception of the danger of pit-bulls isn't overwhelming "true". So my question then is what compelled you (or someone who owns a pit-bull) to own something that is perceived to be a menace? Isn't it anti-social to walk around with a dog that people are instinctively afraid of? Why the need to make other fear your dog? What's the point?
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In comment 13369254 trueblueinpw said:
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why pick one that was intentionally, or otherwise predisposed to violently attack humans?
This.
Is.
Not.
True.
Even assuming its not "true" (and as a casual observer, it doesn't seem to me that you have the benefit of facts on your side), you can't possibly write with any credibility that the perception of the danger of pit-bulls isn't overwhelming "true". So my question then is what compelled you (or someone who owns a pit-bull) to own something that is perceived to be a menace? Isn't it anti-social to walk around with a dog that people are instinctively afraid of? Why the need to make other fear your dog? What's the point?
That, yes and plus the fact that
This.
IS.
VERY.
TRUE.
Pits and Rots attack on the order of something like 10 times more than the frequency of the next lowest attacker, the Siberian Husky...
IT'S
NOT
EVEN
CLOSE
He don't need no stinking facts!
It was the referees fault.
The comment I responded to was that there is a predisposition to attack humans, not that it doesn't happen. They are not predisposed to attack humans. Other dogs, yes, humans, no. The root causes of pit bull attacks invariably reside with the owners. From a study conducted by the American Veterinary Medical Association:
Given that breed is a poor sole predictor of aggressiveness and pit bull-type dogs are not implicated in controlled studies it is difficult to support the targeting of this breed as a basis for dog bite prevention. If breeds are to be targeted a cluster of large breeds would be implicated including the German shepherd and shepherd crosses and other breeds that vary by location.
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Let me Google that for you - ( New Window )
He don't need no stinking facts!
It was the referees fault.
Exhibit A for the stupidity of average people.
Maybe you need some pit bulls on that team.
Maybe you need some pit bulls on that team.
Again - this is a sixtysomething year old man.
I don't have you on the couch here Greg, and I'm not writing anything to you personally. I've read and often enjoyed your posts for years and I'm happy to assume you're as decent and good natured as many other long time posters here on BBI. It's probably fodder for another thread or board, but from a psychological perspective at least, nearly every aspect of what we do as humans is based on our caring about the perception of other people and how we think they perceive us.
I would guess that most pit-bull owners care very much what other people think - or - the perception of strangers. In fact, I speculate that it is almost entirely the perception of others which motivates people to own pit-bulls and other animals perceived to be dangerous.
I speculate there are probably two primary reasons people are compelled to own pit-bulls. The first would be to strike fear in others. I remember years ago (and maybe this is still going on) pit-bulls were de-rigueur accoutrements for toughs in certain parts of Atlanta. As a response, some other toughs took to parading around public places with predatory snakes around their necks because pit-bulls were instinctive afraid of these types of snakes. It was sort of animal kingdom arms race. Funny stuff, in an absurd way, only not so safe, and the authorities eventually stepped in for - well you know - public safety. People that own pit-bulls to make other people afraid are not well intentioned but at least they're being honest about their reasons for ownership of the dogs.
The other reason people own pit-pulls, again, just my speculation, is to demonstrate they are able to marshal and control an animal they know is perceived to be dangerous. The "rescue pits" crowd comes to mind here. These people believe their compassion and love are able to overcome the previous abuse or poor intentions under which the pits were raised. Its a sort of "look at me, my love conquered this poor beast" type of psychological transference. And these people are certainly good natured well meaning folks.
However, each of these profiles trades on the perception that pit-bulls are dangerous. And again, I fail to see any compelling argument - here on this thread or anywhere else - which would indicate to me that pit-bulls are somehow a necessary component of our society.
Compelling interest? The interest is that they make for excellent, loyal companions to a decent dog owner, one which also provides a measure of home protection (as do other larger breeds such as Dobies, Rotts, mastiffs, German shepherds, chows, and so on). Any such dog that is used for fighting, abused and neglected, will turn vicious. To blame the dog rather than the scum who treat them that way makes no sense whatsoever. The pit bull has the misfortune of being both powerfully built and cheap/easily available in large numbers to shitty people, unlike other large powerful breeds which are seldom seen in shelters and are expensive to purchase from breeders.
Did you read the study I linked?
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not getting the shit sued out of them? How does this family not have some kind of public fund that can help the kid out?
Shit like this makes no sense.
It just happened, I'm guessing the parents will file a lawsuit at some point. Right now they are probably more concerned with their sons welfare.
What can they sue for? The kids dad agreed to watch the dogs, they were in cages, he was the one who fell asleep. It sucks but it seems that the fault lies with the dad for accepting to watch dangerous dogs and being asleep wih a 5, 2, and 1 yr old in the house playing
many animals/breeds have a tendency toward aggression, but that doesn't mean they are automatically so, and it doesn't mean people who own them are psychologically trying to prove something. Both can certainly be the case, but it is painting with too broad a brush to blanket label either. it is just as wrong to claim they're poxes on humanity as it is to deny that pits are a breed which can be more dangerous than others. all dogs can be a menace. rotties and german shepherds are the worst I've come across, but I've been terrorized by mutts, by dachshunds, by Chihuahuas. but I've also had all of those breeds be completely lovable. no one size fits all. some breeds are more aggressive. that doesn't mean they should be wiped off the face of the earth.
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The average person is a fucking idiot more often than not. I don't base my opinions or actions on the ill-informed opinions of random people.
I don't have you on the couch here Greg, and I'm not writing anything to you personally. I've read and often enjoyed your posts for years and I'm happy to assume you're as decent and good natured as many other long time posters here on BBI. It's probably fodder for another thread or board, but from a psychological perspective at least, nearly every aspect of what we do as humans is based on our caring about the perception of other people and how we think they perceive us.
I would guess that most pit-bull owners care very much what other people think - or - the perception of strangers. In fact, I speculate that it is almost entirely the perception of others which motivates people to own pit-bulls and other animals perceived to be dangerous.
I speculate there are probably two primary reasons people are compelled to own pit-bulls. The first would be to strike fear in others. I remember years ago (and maybe this is still going on) pit-bulls were de-rigueur accoutrements for toughs in certain parts of Atlanta. As a response, some other toughs took to parading around public places with predatory snakes around their necks because pit-bulls were instinctive afraid of these types of snakes. It was sort of animal kingdom arms race. Funny stuff, in an absurd way, only not so safe, and the authorities eventually stepped in for - well you know - public safety. People that own pit-bulls to make other people afraid are not well intentioned but at least they're being honest about their reasons for ownership of the dogs.
The other reason people own pit-pulls, again, just my speculation, is to demonstrate they are able to marshal and control an animal they know is perceived to be dangerous. The "rescue pits" crowd comes to mind here. These people believe their compassion and love are able to overcome the previous abuse or poor intentions under which the pits were raised. Its a sort of "look at me, my love conquered this poor beast" type of psychological transference. And these people are certainly good natured well meaning folks.
However, each of these profiles trades on the perception that pit-bulls are dangerous. And again, I fail to see any compelling argument - here on this thread or anywhere else - which would indicate to me that pit-bulls are somehow a necessary component of our society.
There is a whole lot of generalizations and assumptions going on here. You are taking a large amount of people and putting them all into a tiny little box that fits your perception. I do think a lot of idiots own pitbulls but you can't say with a straight face everyone has one because of the reasons you listed.
My dog (half pit) was a rescue. I took her because I was looking for a dog and the guy that had her was on the way to the pound with her, and I knew it was a good dog from knowing him. I don't give a shit what people perceive. I was not trying to show how I "marshall and control" an animal. I was not trying to be tough. I was not trying to "strike fear" into others. I was giving a good dog a good home. I also was not trying to have a "look at me Im so thoughtful" moment for everyone to see. You painted with some awfully broad strokes there.
And not for nothing, but my dog has been attacked by other dogs a couple times, and those dogs were a lab and a jack russell (twice). My dog both times defended a little bit but really did nothing to two dogs she could probably rip apart if she wanted to.
So, it is human nature to defend your dog, and your dog's nature to be as defensive as you are.
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But, simpleman, you wrote your dog could have ripped up the dogs who attacked her. That's exactly my point. A couple of Jack Russel get into it at the dog run and maybe there's a torn ear or a bloody leg and a trip to the vet but it's not some fight to the death. Some poodle bites one of my kids and that's a tough day for all of us but a Rottweiler attacks and it could well be game over.
Greg, I read the article you linked and it didn't convince me of any good reason not to ban pits and other dangerous dogs. Partly because the article states that enforcement of animal control laws helps to avoid animal attacks. The article indicated springer spaniels were aggressive as well as pits. Ok, but seriously, would you rather a springer or a pit going after your child? Simpleman is right, his pit could rip another dog to shreds. Or a small kid. A springer spaniel? I don't know but I haven't seen too many of them in the news lately. The point is not that other dogs aren't aggressive, the point isn't that all dogs aren't capable of attacking humans, the point is that some dogs do more damage than others when they do attack.
And again, my initial point was simply that these Rotts and pits simply aren't necessary. Get some other dog that doesn't occasionally severely kids and other innocent humans. What's the compellling need for these particular breeds?
Anyway, didn't mean to be a cockbag about people's pets. I'm not a pet person myself and I'm sure the good people of BBI are all good pet owners with good intentions.
This proves what exactly?
I had searched dozens of pages before finding an adoption profile that interested me. She wasn't identified as a pit bull in her profile - but as a "lab mix." I was drawn in by her personality description and we also only adopt female short hair varieties. We we tend to value the descriptors "playful" and "affectionate." She also looked sweet in her picture.
It was after we adopted her that it was pointed out to us that she had pit bull features - and our vet confirmed she was a pit bull mix.
There is obviously a wide range of information that casts this breed in an unfavorable light, but my own experience does lead me to believe that in a responsible loving home these dogs can be genuinely loved and love back; that there are many folks that are passionate about the breed; and I have become one of them because of the experiences I now share with my own little doll.
I'm glad you love your pet gidie.