The anti-retain JPP argument seems to be that his stats only came against crappy teams, and obviously his health issues. Sure i guess you could say that, however in those games he was being the old 'game-wrecker' he used to be. JPP was starting to show signs of his old self, he would have reached double digit sacks had he finished out the season. This also has to do with the opportunity cost that he comes with. Yes you could save that 15-17 a year if you dont re-sign him, who are you going to replace him with for the upcoming year? It has been pointed out that his injury negatively affected Vernon and a good pass rush makes our already good secondary look that much better. I guess what I am saying is, who would you replace him with next year, which is a win now year?
It's not as simple as who do you replace him with when you consider the wear/tear and trying to project what type of talent he'll be in 2 or 3 years. There has to be a comfort level with the terms of the deal over its duration, as is having talent in place for 2017.
I'd prefer to keep him, but my terms would be closer to 4/48 than 5/75.
I also think some of the anti-JPP people don't really understand the cap.
I think it's obvious what Reese is trying to do, with who he's cut so far and his approach last year. They're all in on winning in 2017 and 2018 with not much a plan after that, due to the impending resetting of the franchise QB situation.
I also think some of the anti-JPP people don't really understand the cap.
I think most people in general don't understand the cap. Read Pat Traina's article today where she says Pugh shouldn't be extended for the cap considerations involved.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say, so why not just say it.
I understand that it effected him when he had the club, but did anyone see the finger issue effect him in any way last year? I didn't.
Seem to effect him last year.
The back surgery comment is such an amateur hour response at this point. It was almost 5 years ago. He has shown no ill effects of the surgery since that year, either on the field- gameday or practice, or in training. Come up with something better because you troll every JPP thread and quite frankly look like a Giant jackass.
Then you don't understand the salary cap situation the Giants are in.
Interesting, just curious, when was this?
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between wanting him back, and wanting him back at any price. I think everyone wants him back, but not if it handcuffs the team (from a salary cap perspective) to the point they can't bring in other players that are needed.
Then you don't understand the salary cap situation the Giants are in.
Mostly those who don't want him back are concerned about the cap consequences.
Can you name five DE's that are clearly better 'all around' than JPP.. (hint: Its a trick question so don't name anyone just say NO)
It's not as simple as who do you replace him with when you consider the wear/tear and trying to project what type of talent he'll be in 2 or 3 years. There has to be a comfort level with the terms of the deal over its duration, as is having talent in place for 2017.
I'd prefer to keep him, but my terms would be closer to 4/48 than 5/75.
Reese won't give him a contract that will prevent the team from retaining talent down the road. It's going to be a deal on the Giants terms. Worrying about the money is misguided.
If you look at FA DEs and draft prospects, JPP cannot be adequately replaced this year and maybe not even for next. Real good 4-3 2-way DEs are very expensive. OV would be doubled every snap. Not so with JPP here.
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but I think those who would rather not spend 5/75 or more to retain him are being conservative, of which I am one.
It's not as simple as who do you replace him with when you consider the wear/tear and trying to project what type of talent he'll be in 2 or 3 years. There has to be a comfort level with the terms of the deal over its duration, as is having talent in place for 2017.
I'd prefer to keep him, but my terms would be closer to 4/48 than 5/75.
Reese won't give him a contract that will prevent the team from retaining talent down the road. It's going to be a deal on the Giants terms. Worrying about the money is misguided.
I'm not worried, trusting Reese will do the right thing on this one is what I've been preaching on many threads.
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7 fingers and has had back surgery
Seem to effect him last year.
The back surgery comment is such an amateur hour response at this point. It was almost 5 years ago. He has shown no ill effects of the surgery since that year, either on the field- gameday or practice, or in training. Come up with something better because you troll every JPP thread and quite frankly look like a Giant jackass.
I am not trolling I just have a different opinion.
Last year JPP has a pick 6. Remember? It was tipped right at the line and dropped right into his hands with nobody around him. He almost dropped it and had to cradle it with his chest and midsection.
He physically is at a disadvantage over the other 21 men on the field in terms of how he can grab, push and pull. That is not an opinion.
See...the way I see it, you win when you put together a core of leaders who make it known that they will lead by words AND example. Leaders need to he smart. JPP is an idiot. I am sorry. He is. Twice he has proved it to me. First, after his 2011 season he went on a buffet tour and then lost his 2012 season because he never rebounded from being out of shape. THEN, with millions upon millions on the table he plays with fireworks. Smart professionals don't do that. You don't give 75 million contracts to guys like that unless you are the redskins in 2002
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In comment 13367622 ThatLimerickGuy said:
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7 fingers and has had back surgery
Seem to effect him last year.
The back surgery comment is such an amateur hour response at this point. It was almost 5 years ago. He has shown no ill effects of the surgery since that year, either on the field- gameday or practice, or in training. Come up with something better because you troll every JPP thread and quite frankly look like a Giant jackass.
I am not trolling I just have a different opinion.
Last year JPP has a pick 6. Remember? It was tipped right at the line and dropped right into his hands with nobody around him. He almost dropped it and had to cradle it with his chest and midsection.
He physically is at a disadvantage over the other 21 men on the field in terms of how he can grab, push and pull. That is not an opinion.
See...the way I see it, you win when you put together a core of leaders who make it known that they will lead by words AND example. Leaders need to he smart. JPP is an idiot. I am sorry. He is. Twice he has proved it to me. First, after his 2011 season he went on a buffet tour and then lost his 2012 season because he never rebounded from being out of shape. THEN, with millions upon millions on the table he plays with fireworks. Smart professionals don't do that. You don't give 75 million contracts to guys like that unless you are the redskins in 2002
It was actually a FF by Hankins that JPP recovered for the TD.
#BringBackOurBoys
I think there are people on this board that believe that JPP is a top DE...personal in today's NFL there is not a single DE playing outside of Watt & Clowney I would rather have...JPP is one of the best overall DL in the NFL...who does everything well...and in my opinion was getting ready to go on a tear and would have finished with 13-15 sacks if not for the unfortunate injury...
He is the superior player over Vernon...so the question is how do you ask a superior player to take $5 million less per year then an inferior one..can you do this with a strait face??
As was noted above the Giants have a 36 year old quarterback on his last legs with maybe a few more prime years...and can't afford to have its championship caliber defense take a step back as was noted when he was out and the drop off in the defense and Vernon's play took place...
JPP is the batman Vernon the robin and he needs to be paid accordingly... the superior player should have the right to make more money if he performs and stays on the field.....and the Giants should have the right to protect themselves if he can't stay on the field by having an out in 2-3 years...
Stop bull shitting...nobody cares what you think or anyone on this board thinks...it's not your money...it's the Giants money...and pay should be based strictly on professional evaluation...if they agree on the performance and worth above...the deal should be structured accordingly...
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won't acknowledge the player he is now ... this isn't 2011 JPP. Top DE is debatable, penny pinching is a disingenuous, and the world doesn't end if he moves on.
Can you name five DE's that are clearly better 'all around' than JPP.. (hint: Its a trick question so don't name anyone just say NO)
Boom...exactly!!
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In comment 13367622 ThatLimerickGuy said:
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7 fingers and has had back surgery
Seem to effect him last year.
The back surgery comment is such an amateur hour response at this point. It was almost 5 years ago. He has shown no ill effects of the surgery since that year, either on the field- gameday or practice, or in training. Come up with something better because you troll every JPP thread and quite frankly look like a Giant jackass.
I am not trolling I just have a different opinion.
Last year JPP has a pick 6. Remember? It was tipped right at the line and dropped right into his hands with nobody around him. He almost dropped it and had to cradle it with his chest and midsection.
He physically is at a disadvantage over the other 21 men on the field in terms of how he can grab, push and pull. That is not an opinion.
See...the way I see it, you win when you put together a core of leaders who make it known that they will lead by words AND example. Leaders need to he smart. JPP is an idiot. I am sorry. He is. Twice he has proved it to me. First, after his 2011 season he went on a buffet tour and then lost his 2012 season because he never rebounded from being out of shape. THEN, with millions upon millions on the table he plays with fireworks. Smart professionals don't do that. You don't give 75 million contracts to guys like that unless you are the redskins in 2002
So you decide to pick one friggen play from the year to show he's at disadvantage?
Well if he's at an disadvantage, how did he possibly accumulate all the pressures, tackle for losses, sacks, basic tackles, batted balls that he did? Relative to his peers at his position, he was in the upper echelon.
If that's a disadvantage relative to the other "21" men on the field, then I guess we are in pretty good shape because I don't know what the says about the vast majority of the defensive ends in the league and the offensive tackles he outplayed on a weekly basis
In terms of his "stupidity", can't disagree with is past but its also pretty obvious he's grown up as most humans do with his sacrifice to come back and dedication to training and playing. If you can't see the past two years he's dedicated himself to being in the best possible shape he can be, then I dont know what to tell you. But I wouldn't expect you to appreciate that, considering you don't even know what you watched last year on the field.
Its not an "opinion" he was a good player, its fact.
Its not an "opinion" he was a good player, its fact.
Bro. His complaint was with the ease with which JPP actually scored a TD. He's a clown and his complaints aren't only ridiculous: they're stupid.
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says from what she heard it's more than likely JPP will return. Tuck and Osi have had an influence on that.
Interesting, just curious, when was this?
This AM.
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In comment 13367604 JonC said:
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but I think those who would rather not spend 5/75 or more to retain him are being conservative, of which I am one.
It's not as simple as who do you replace him with when you consider the wear/tear and trying to project what type of talent he'll be in 2 or 3 years. There has to be a comfort level with the terms of the deal over its duration, as is having talent in place for 2017.
I'd prefer to keep him, but my terms would be closer to 4/48 than 5/75.
Reese won't give him a contract that will prevent the team from retaining talent down the road. It's going to be a deal on the Giants terms. Worrying about the money is misguided.
I'm not worried, trusting Reese will do the right thing on this one is what I've been preaching on many threads.
Well your argument is about the money. If that is the crux of most of the let JPP walk crowd then it's without merit. Reese hasn't buried this team with bad contracts. They've been able to keep everyone they wanted keep over the years outside of maybe Joseph. They know what they're doing from a cap perspective.
Either way, it wouldn't effect my willingness/ability to sign other targeted free agents this year. It might mean restructuring some contracts I'd prefer not to restructure, but not who I sign.
It just doesn't matter though. If the Giants gave him a 100 million but were able to keep whomever they wanted what's the practical effect? Nothing.
If someone wants to let him walk bc they think he'll miss games or be a slug after signing, fine. But the money argument doesn't hold any water.
Production dips.
We already are paying Vernon and Snacks
I think many are desperate to retain him. At his best he's a very good player, but the performance delta is a concern given what he's shown in the NFL. I just want to see the team mitigate the risk as I suspect in a few years the contract will be one that is at least somewhat regretful.
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It's about the inherent value, which got blown up by the OV contract last year, I get it from that level of the fan perspective.
It just doesn't matter though. If the Giants gave him a 100 million but were able to keep whomever they wanted what's the practical effect? Nothing.
If someone wants to let him walk bc they think he'll miss games or be a slug after signing, fine. But the money argument doesn't hold any water.
You need to think beyond 2017. I think we can all make an argument that we can keep the team in tact with our 2017 cap and go after a WR or OL, but at what future cost?
I'm a huge JPP supporter and want him back but we can't do it at all costs. The team will exist post Eli and we need to make sure we can be nimble with the cap for future years as well. To what extend none of us know, but its a legit question and one I'm sure Reese and Co are going through every which way under the sun.
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7 fingers and has had back surgery
I understand that it effected him when he had the club, but did anyone see the finger issue effect him in any way last year? I didn't.
If don't think the finger issue affected him much, if at all last year. I also think it will only heal more and more and get better as time goes on. I don't think it'll have any effect on his play going forward.
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In comment 13367802 JonC said:
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It's about the inherent value, which got blown up by the OV contract last year, I get it from that level of the fan perspective.
It just doesn't matter though. If the Giants gave him a 100 million but were able to keep whomever they wanted what's the practical effect? Nothing.
If someone wants to let him walk bc they think he'll miss games or be a slug after signing, fine. But the money argument doesn't hold any water.
You need to think beyond 2017. I think we can all make an argument that we can keep the team in tact with our 2017 cap and go after a WR or OL, but at what future cost?
I'm a huge JPP supporter and want him back but we can't do it at all costs. The team will exist post Eli and we need to make sure we can be nimble with the cap for future years as well. To what extend none of us know, but its a legit question and one I'm sure Reese and Co are going through every which way under the sun.
It's very easy in the NFL to sign a guy to a large contract, but have an out in 3 years(when Eli is done) in case the team wants to break it down and start over. This isn't the NBA when every year is guaranteed.