Adrian Wojnarowski: I was told that the Knicks are still making some calls on the las 24 hours, trying to get some traction on possible deals for him. They dont have anything now and Carmelo is still headstrong on not wanting to waive his non-trade clause and at least finishing out this season in New York. 5 hours ago via Facebook.com
Adrian Wojnarowski: I was told that the Knicks are still making some calls on the las 24 hours, trying to get some traction on possible deals for him. They dont have anything now and Carmelo is still headstrong on not wanting to waive his non-trade clause and at least finishing out this season in New York. 5 hours ago via Facebook.com
woj is good at breaking trades but he doesnt know shit when it comes to the knicks,
and it's possible that he knows the Knicks have called Cle.
whem ot comes to woj if he is not breaking trades i take him with a grain of salt...he writes with a bias so if someone tells him something he writes in their favor
Jackson would be an idiot to give up a 1st with the team
realistically, at this point he isnt waiving his NTC for some out of the blue deal. He isnt deciding TODAY that he's cool moving his family to OKC. I dont speak in guarantees, but this I'll basically guarantee.
I could buy the Knicks circling back to BOS late in the day if the Celts havent gotten Butler or George. We're better off resolving the Melo situation over the summer when maybe he'll expand his list. Knicks need to tell him that they're rebuilding, with or without him.
What other teams in the East are doing. Boston is smart, they will make a deal at the 12th hour not letting other teams time to react. That's the only way Cleve will jump in and a possible Melo deal happens. I believe we do nothing by 3pm.
Guy is going to be 33 in May. It's very clear the Knicks won't be contending for 2-3 years -- at the earliest! So is he willing to spend the last couple of his career on non-playoff teams?
I totally understand putting family first -- however, going to Boston, or Washington, at the very least (besides Cleveland and LA) are just a hop and a skip from NY. And those teams are playoff teams and Boston is a real up and coming team.
.
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2017 3:06 pm : link : reply
He has not been good but keep an eye on this guy... Knicks previously tried acquiring his rights via trade
Link - ( New Window ) http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4269/nemanja-bjelica%20#Knicks Link - ( New Window )
but when was the last trade deadline where the knicks had any desirable players? Rose, Jennings, KOQ, Kuz, Melo(I wish). Every other trade deadline is some pipedream.
Guy is going to be 33 in May. It's very clear the Knicks won't be contending for 2-3 years -- at the earliest! So is he willing to spend the last couple of his career on non-playoff teams?
I totally understand putting family first -- however, going to Boston, or Washington, at the very least (besides Cleveland and LA) are just a hop and a skip from NY. And those teams are playoff teams and Boston is a real up and coming team.
Just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't get it either. Even if he gets traded this offseason, its another year of wear until he gets to play in the playoffs. He also has an opt out after next season, so he's essentially "moving" from now until the end of the playoffs and then next season. Can keep his base in NY easily. And I believe he has a house in LA and spends his offseason there.
I know its not happening, but if the Clippers offered Crawford/ Rivers/ B. Johnson, D. Stone and unprotected future first( either 2021/2022) for Melo, do you accept that. Crawford's contract is only guaranteed for 3 mill in 2018-2019 so essentially it's expiring next season. I know the return sucks but is it really getting better in the offseason/ next year?
I just worry about having him on the Knicks making 30 million in 2019.
Melo doesn't have that burning desire to win, he doesn't act that way, he certainly doesn't play that way. I'm sure he wants to win, but there is a difference between wanting it and needing it.
You hope in the offseason that Melo changes his tune and is willing to go somewhere. Trading for that Clips package does nothing for us, IMO.
Totally agree. The ONLY advantage to dealing Melo now for a garbage deal is a higher draft pick. The reported offers are SO bad that it defies reason to believe the same offers (at very worst) would be unavailable in the off-season if need be.
You hope in the offseason that Melo changes his tune and is willing to go somewhere. Trading for that Clips package does nothing for us, IMO.
Totally agree. The ONLY advantage to dealing Melo now for a garbage deal is a higher draft pick. The reported offers are SO bad that it defies reason to believe the same offers (at very worst) would be unavailable in the off-season if need be.
and even with the garbage offers you are not even getting salary relief
Hard to fathom a Melo deal comes together today, unfortunately.
You hope in the offseason that Melo changes his tune and is willing to go somewhere. Trading for that Clips package does nothing for us, IMO.
Totally agree. The ONLY advantage to dealing Melo now for a garbage deal is a higher draft pick. The reported offers are SO bad that it defies reason to believe the same offers (at very worst) would be unavailable in the off-season if need be.
and even with the garbage offers you are not even getting salary relief
Yup. Literally the ONLY upside is potentially getting a better pick. That's absolute best case with these Shumpert/Rivers type of headlined deals.
RE: Hard to fathom a Melo deal comes together today, unfortunately.
I'll settle for a Rose trade and another minor move involving O'Quinn, Jennings, etc.
A Jennings trade should be a given. I don't care if it's a 2nd rounder, you take it for Jennings. Teams have called, obviously they are interested, it should be done for whatever you can get.
Rose is a little trickier because of his salary. Will be hard for teams to match up, but Minny obviously makes sense. I don't pull the trigger on Rubio, but anything else is added and its done.
KOQ, I'd have to get a first for him and not a GS first. A late teens/early 20's pick. He's not a guy who's salary needs to be cleared.
RE: Hard to fathom a Melo deal comes together today, unfortunately.
I mean, he's said as much. Remember when he said he'd be okay if he retired without an NBA title?
There's not much more to it than that.
Also, the "high first" for Rubio can't be anything more than negotiation speak. I wouldn't be too concerned. Every team in the league is going to shoot for the moon when dealing with the Knicks for their history of dumb moves. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.
Per Marc Stein, the Nets have spoken to the Pistons about a potential trade for center Andre Drummond. Its unclear what the Nets would need to give up or what they even could give up for Drummond, but one thing is for sure, a trade for a dominant center like Drummond can change the landscape of the Nets franchise.
But not really sure what else to expect for Drummond....
Quote:
8m
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Taj Gibson, Doug McDermott and especially Nikola Mirotic ... Chicago Bulls all in play today on Deadline Day according to league sources.
Says the main focus is moving Rose, but teams are also interested in O'Quinn, Jennings & Kuz. He said the Knicks brass likes Kuz and he won't be cheap.
Is a player that contending teams love to
add because of his versatility and defense. He's a good addition for playoff teams...exact reason why Knicks won't be in play for him
Is a player that contending teams love to
add because of his versatility and defense. He's a good addition for playoff teams...exact reason why Knicks won't be in play for him
Sure but why would any Knick fan advocate such a thing? He's a UFA and turning 32.
Looks like Minny can't trade a 1st until 2020 because they owe Atlanta a pick in 2018 and they only have 1 2nd. I'd have to think the sweeten would be a player. Link - ( New Window )
is confirming the Knicks have discussed Bjelica as part of the Rose deal. No surprise since I noted yesterday the Knicks have long been tied to him
"2 years ago via EuroHoops.net
Nemanja Bjelica is ready to make the jump to the NBA, Minessota has his rights, but the New York Knicks are pursuing him and hope to get him via a sign and trade deal. According to Eurohoops sources, the Euroleague MVP has already decided to continue his career in the NBA. He has to sign his new contract until the 10th of July, the date his opt out clause in the contract with Fenerbahce/ Ulker expires. Bjelica has been in contact for a long time with the Timberwolves, however now the Knicks entered the picture."
Darren Wolfson ✔ @DWolfsonKSTP
Text from NBA scout at Serbia-Spain: "(Bjelica) flat-out stud. Better than Mirotic. Knows how to play. Has a feel one can't teach." #twolves
Adam Zagoria@AdamZagoria
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The #Knicks are shopping Kyle O'Quinn but it's unclear if they can get equal value back, league sources confirm.
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Ian Begley@IanBegley
NYK, like every other team, seeking a 1st-round pick; talked to one team about O'Quinn/Jennings package
Are not able to deal both Rose and Anthony you better just pray Jackson is fired because this guy is ruining the Knicks more then anyone has, and I think it is without him giving a fuck at all, he will always blame Dolan, and with all his rings who will argue it, besides, Dolan is hated also, as he should be, Jackson has been a total disgrace and I have lost all respect for this fuck. he cashed in his chips and is laughing all the way to the fucking bank. I am sorry for anyone who is a Knick fan, there is one resolution, everyone must stop following them and force Dolan out, it is the only way to get the Knicks back in our lifetime, they are lost because of this fool, Dolan.
Sam AmickVerified account@sam_amick 21s22 seconds ago
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The T-Wolves have continued to shop Ricky Rubio to non-Knicks teams too, even as they've continued to talk with NY about a Derrick Rose deal
Sam AmickVerified account@sam_amick 21s22 seconds ago
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The T-Wolves have continued to shop Ricky Rubio to non-Knicks teams too, even as they've continued to talk with NY about a Derrick Rose deal
Darren WolfsonVerified account@DWolfsonKSTP 11s12 seconds ago
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Ex-#Twolves exec., curious on Rubio, via text: "If they move him, hope he ends up in a good spot. Good guy, good player, and wants to win."
Since when did Scott Layden become a competent GM?
hope we don't just give away KOQ for a late first. I really think he can play. It would have to be a pretty decent pick imo.
If Horny played him the 28 mpg he deserved I don't think this would be a problem. Instead I can see a bunch of teams being like "if he's so good why is he getting 10-15 minutes a game off the bench on a team that struggles on D" and I can't think of a logical reason why.
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All these teams looking to trade for a first-round pick, but 7 of the final 9 picks (22 thru 30) in the first round have already been traded
Wth are you talking about? Jackson has ruined this team spares then anyone else? Have you seen what the past GMs have done here. This is the first time in as long as I can remember that we have had a young potential franchise player, another really good player in Willy with the potential to be above avg. we are looking at a potential high lottery pick in a stacked draft and we are in decent cap shape. We are in better shape then we have been in quite some time. This is exactly why no one ever attempts to come to NU and rebuild and we remain mediocre. They know the fans with kill them and they will never get to see the process through.
Now I don't care for jackals approac with tweets, medi, etc but from a player stand point and potential for growth as a team. We are in pretty decen shape
hope we don't just give away KOQ for a late first. I really think he can play. It would have to be a pretty decent pick imo.
If Horny played him the 28 mpg he deserved I don't think this would be a problem. Instead I can see a bunch of teams being like "if he's so good why is he getting 10-15 minutes a game off the bench on a team that struggles on D" and I can't think of a logical reason why.
Simple -- Then hang up the phone. He has value to the Knicks. Would love to get another first, but no pouting from me if 3pm comes and goes and KOQ is still here.
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1/ The Wolves are operating w/priority of pushing for playoffs. So that is coloring any trade talks they have.
What? They are closer to the Lakers than they are to the 8 seed. It would be semi bold for even the Pelicans to expect a playoff seed, Minnesota has no business thinking playoffs. Get another top pick and then decide your playoff hopes.
If they don't get anything there, I think they will trade Rubio/Bjelica for Rose.
Who are they hoping to get? It seems like Rubio is merely a contract dump for them.
Yeah, plus they've been shopping that package for a week and there hasn't been any rumored interest. That tells me that they will prob come back to the Knicks.
want Bjelica? I'm not familiar with his game plus he's 28 already, how much better will he get?
At a certain point they likely would just take whatever sweetener they realistically can get. Pretty clearly they aren't expected to get a first in the deal, I'd probably take the 2nd over Bjelica but if the scouts liked him that much in 2015 it makes some sense.
either but then it's not fair to expect he'll get you anything next year when he's an expiring. Might as well pony up to pay him when he becomes a FA. He could be a contributor off the bench when this team is (hopefully) good again in 3-4 years. Don't think his game will deteriorate in his early 30s, he can barely jump now and is pretty effective.
Darren WolfsonVerified account@DWolfsonKSTP 11s12 seconds ago
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Ex-#Twolves exec., curious on Rubio, via text: "If they move him, hope he ends up in a good spot. Good guy, good player, and wants to win."
We are the definition of a bad spot.
Also re KOQ: Im not sure he's had a bigger defender here than me going back to last season. But his foul rate is 5.1 per 36 minutes. He cant be a 28 minute player because he cant be counted on to be available that much. Literally, there have only been 10 seasons of guys playing 28 mpg, 40+ games, and averaging 7+ PF/100 possessions (KOQ's rate). Half the guys who did that were 22 or younger (ie developing players) See link. Link - ( New Window )
I don't like that stat as a projection. If you know you are only going to play a handful of minutes a night and you get 5 fouls then you are more inclined to use them. If you know you will be playing 28 minutes a night then your game/mentality changes.
already dreading the reports of Rubio working on his shooting with some great shooting coach and how his new shot looks great and the ensuing BBI arguments about it.
already dreading the reports of Rubio working on his shooting with some great shooting coach and how his new shot looks great and the ensuing BBI arguments about it.
already dreading the reports of Rubio working on his shooting with some great shooting coach and how his new shot looks great and the ensuing BBI arguments about it.
You mean like Hornacek?
"Rubio has worked tireless hours with Hornacek breaking down and rebuilding his shot..." that works lol
already dreading the reports of Rubio working on his shooting with some great shooting coach and how his new shot looks great and the ensuing BBI arguments about it.
It's the basketball version of "Pablo Sandoval arrived for training camp in the best shape of his life after a strenuous workout routine over the winter"
Tommy Dee is a no fly zone. Guy is a hack. Other than the mainstream guys like Begley I have enjoyed following Sports News @JSports_ent. Doesn't sound like he has an agenda and has never blatantly made up rumors in the past.
already dreading the reports of Rubio working on his shooting with some great shooting coach and how his new shot looks great and the ensuing BBI arguments about it.
It's the basketball version of "Pablo Sandoval arrived for training camp in the best shape of his life after a strenuous workout routine over the winter"
lol. I'm sure someone can come up with an example of a bad shooter becoming solid 6-7 years into an NBA career but it's gotta be beyond unusual. Yeah, if Rubio could shoot he'd be a star. That was the dream when he was drafted. He was a phenom in Europe. I've read Rubio was the overall "best" Euro teenager maybe ever until this Doncic kid came along.
How about trying to get LaVine involved in this Minnesota trade?
Charles Oakley confirmed he plans to attend the Knicks-Cavs game in Cleveland on Thursday. It is unclear if Oakley is going as a guest of his friend LeBron James, who has publicly supported Oakley after Oakley was forcibly removed from Madison Square Garden two weeks ago.
In a text message to the Daily News, Oakley would only say that he will be inside Quicken Loans Arena for the game.
Hey if Minnesota is trying to make a push this year
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Boston, Indy had preliminary talk on Paul George, but there won't be real dialogue until/unless C's introduce Nets pick into deal.
Rubio also shoots substantially better in the first quarter, and often looks for his own shots early in the contest as compared to the rest of the game. His field goal percentage last season was 44 percent in the first quarter but it quickly drops to 30 percent in the second, 36.5 percent in the third, and finally 39 percent in the fourth....
This is from Rubio in an interview with Britt Robson:
"But of course in the first quarter I am more focused and I have fresh legs. Usually players like to get easy in the game and I realized as a point guard for a young team as we were, coming off a bad start, and I wanted to lead by example, like I said, and so to be aggressive from the beginning trying to do my own thing and get some shots up in the beginning."
Wonder if he gets better if you really manage his minutes. 26 minutes of Rubio shooting over 40% would be good. Also, note that his 2P% is 44.5% this season. Possibly an anomaly tho and worse than ever from 3. Link - ( New Window )
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Boston, Indy had preliminary talk on Paul George, but there won't be real dialogue until/unless C's introduce Nets pick into deal.
I would love nothing more than the Nets pick turn out to be 4th overall this year and Nets improve next year and make the pick fringe lottery. Jaylen Brown turns out to be a bust, 2017/2018 pick don't produce any franchise player and the Celtics are stuck paying Isiah Thomas the super max as a middling playoff team.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
Update on Boston, Indy: Boston hasn't met Indiana's asking price on Paul George, but Nets pick has entered conversation now, sources say.
curious, if you were Ainge would you guys give up the 2017 Nets pick for George? For Butler?
Yes.
Ainge has gotten so fat ripping off teams that he's unable to negotiate on a fair plane. It's pretty laughable that he's pursuing George without putting the Nets pick(s) on the table. WTF is he offering? Brown?
curious, if you were Ainge would you guys give up the 2017 Nets pick for George? For Butler?
I think George is slightly better but his contract makes it tricky. I'd rather trade Brown and the 2018 pick or some other combo outside the 2017 pick but ultimately I would do it. Both are superstar top 10/15 players that play incredibly well on both ends. The draft is such a crapshoot.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
Philadelphia is sending Nerlens Noel to Dallas for Justin Anderson and a first-round draft pick, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA 29s29 seconds ago
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Philadelphia is sending Nerlens Noel to Dallas for Justin Anderson and a first-round draft pick, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Marc SteinVerified account@ESPNSteinLine 17s17 seconds ago
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Andrew Bogut and Justin Anderson and conditional first-round pick will be traded from Dallas to Philadelphia for Nerlens Noel, sources say
Trade Jennings/ KOQ for a 1st.
Trade Rose for Rubio or dump him somewhere. If no trade- buy him out.
One last offer to Boston for Melo- see if they'll take him on the cheap.
What will happen-
No trades and the above players all play out the year. Knicks finish the season on a 5 game winning streak that moves them into 13th pick of the draft. Phil Jackson says he's proud of how the team finished and what they are building.
Adrian Wojnarowski
Philadelphia is in advanced talks to send Nerlens Noel to the Dallas Mavericks, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Anderson and/or picks I'd have to think. Unlikely, Curry or Ferrell with picks. Really hope the Mavs dont hand Philly another lottery pick. That would be bonkers. I also really worry about them sending a declining protection #1. Mavs strike me as a good candidate to bottom out post-Dirk.
Dont agree. Would like to see what the pick is of course. But I think it makes a lot of sense to surround Simmons and Embiid with 3 & D guys at the 1-2-3. Anderson is a nice piece. I'd love him in NY.
what the 1st is. But I thought, they'd get more for Noel. Dallas got better, hopefully they win more games then the Knicks. Honestly I'm just hoping the Knicks get a top 5 picks. If they don't sell off assets I'm returning my newly bought Knicks fathead for my man cave.
Dont agree. Would like to see what the pick is of course. But I think it makes a lot of sense to surround Simmons and Embiid with 3 & D guys at the 1-2-3. Anderson is a nice piece. I'd love him in NY.
It's top 18 protected which means 1. It's not an ultra high pick 2. They likely won't be seeing it for a while because the Mavs suck. That's a giveaway.
pick protected 1-18 lol. They just gave away Noel.
Whats the point of that trade for the Sixers? Are they ever going to try to start winning on the court? They keep kicking the can down the road. Maybe they didn't want to pay him this summer but I don't get it. I'm not a huge fan of Noel but good trade for Dallas.
Dont agree. Would like to see what the pick is of course. But I think it makes a lot of sense to surround Simmons and Embiid with 3 & D guys at the 1-2-3. Anderson is a nice piece. I'd love him in NY.
It's top 18 protected which means 1. It's not an ultra high pick 2. They likely won't be seeing it for a while because the Mavs suck. That's a giveaway.
Not a great return but I disagree with the give away for nothing angle. I guess I just like Anderson's potential as a 3 & D guy.
I dont think this is Philly kicking the can down the road. New GM. I think they like Anderson and hated the idea of maxing Noel this summer. He is obviously getting a massive offer.
how many Noel rumors there were, how they were talking to teams for 2 seasons now this isn't much of a return at all. That pick is one they may not see for 2-3-4 seasons given how bad the Mavs figure to be and Anderson is a solid player but that's about it. Hard to call him a good 3 and D when he's yet to show he can shoot the 3 (29%) career.
how many Noel rumors there were, how they were talking to teams for 2 seasons now this isn't much of a return at all. That pick is one they may not see for 2-3-4 seasons given how bad the Mavs figure to be and Anderson is a solid player but that's about it. Hard to call him a good 3 and D when he's yet to show he can shoot the 3 (29%) career.
It would have to be a projection on Anderson. I cant say I've seen him much. But the 3 & D guys often take a bit of time.
says the Wolves current offer is Rubio and Shabazz (to multiple teams) as has been rumored. He also said the Mavs had soured on Justin Anderson and that the Magic are interested in Reggie Jackson.
in the thinking if Rubio is a salary dump for Minny (which it is) then Shabazz isn't much of compensation. But at this point the Knicks should look at it as helping Minny get better thus potentially improving their draft slot in the upcoming draft.
I would have thought so but he was know to be available forever. So either Philly loves Anderson or the offers werent very good. It's notable that the contending teams have so little to offer, and Im reasonably sure that Philly had zero interest in getting back a 4 or 5. For non-contending teams, what you're really acquiring is a tryout period and the right to match the massive contract Noel is gonna get. And he's a risk. People dont like his attitude, and he hasnt been a model of health. But he can be a great defensive center and a very good PnR big I think.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Boston, Indy had preliminary talk on Paul George, but there won't be real dialogue until/unless C's introduce Nets pick into deal.
I would love nothing more than the Nets pick turn out to be 4th overall this year and Nets improve next year and make the pick fringe lottery. Jaylen Brown turns out to be a bust, 2017/2018 pick don't produce any franchise player and the Celtics are stuck paying Isiah Thomas the super max as a middling playoff team.
I think you are looking at the trade the wrong way from Philly's point of view. They are accumulating 1st round picks NOT for immediate use- or even their own use.
I believe that the intent is to clear the roster of the extra bigs and to gather up assets to use in trades next year as the talent returns fully healthy. Embiid is the real deal as a C. Saric is emerging as a stretch 4. Simmons will likely be a ball-handling 2/3. What they really need next is a top PG and a D&3 SG.
The Sixers can pick up a high end G in this year's draft- and then use those picks to make a trade for a top SG. I think that is why they accepted the restrictions on the Mavs pick- they don't want to use it now- it is an asset for later.
With the cap space the Sixers save, they can then fill in their backup spots with decent vets and be a strong team in 2 years.
how many Noel rumors there were, how they were talking to teams for 2 seasons now this isn't much of a return at all. That pick is one they may not see for 2-3-4 seasons given how bad the Mavs figure to be and Anderson is a solid player but that's about it. Hard to call him a good 3 and D when he's yet to show he can shoot the 3 (29%) career.
It's interesting that brogdon comes into the league and is raining 3s but Anderson has struggled. if Anderson perfects his 3 pointer he is a very, very good player.
Marc SteinVerified account@ESPNSteinLine
The Knicks and Timberwolves remain engaged in trade talks toward a deal headlined by Derrick Rose and Ricky Rubio, league sources tell ESPN.
They are really putting a lot of eggs in the Embiid will be healthy basket. I would have re-signed Noel and traded Okafor. Plausible to me that Noel told them that he really wanted out.
Marc SteinVerified account@ESPNSteinLine
The Knicks and Timberwolves remain engaged in trade talks toward a deal headlined by Derrick Rose and Ricky Rubio, league sources tell ESPN.
These tweets are so ridiculous. Some are so vague you know they are just complete bullshit. " Team X is open to moving Player X for high draft picks and multiple assets."
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Cavs owner Dan Gilbert has invited Charles Oakley to sit two rows behind him for tonight's Knicks game...
Oakley really just wants to kepp making this worse and worseand gilbert is a piece of shit for egging it on
Eh, Gilbert's likely doing it as a favor for LeBron. Though there's also a chance that the Knicks dysfunction makes it slightly more likely Melo forces a trade elsewhere.
David AldridgeVerified account@daldridgetnt
As we hit air on @NBATV, Knicks and Wolves still talking Rose-Rubio, but still a ways to go, with numerous names in mix, between the teams.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
Minnesota remains engaged with several teams on a Ricky Rubio trade, including New York, league sources tell @TheVertical.
If the Mavs pick isn't 19-30, it becomes a 2017 2nd and 2018 2nd. So it's very possible/likely the deal is Anderson + 2 2nd round picks for Noel.
Put aside your valuation of Noel. Anderson and 2 #2s is not nothing. It's 3 pieces I'd want on the Knicks. Those #2s could turn into gold.
People on here are expecting 2nd's for guys like Jennings so I'm not too impressed with a guy who is a career 29% 3 point shooter and 2 2nd round picks spread over 2 drafts. It seems like any quasi-decent player can bring back a 2 if you deal them at the right time.
when all is said and done I'd love to see an analysis of what the actual price is to take on a bad contract/get a #1. Seems to me that if the Cavs could trade a ~#28-32 overall pick to dump Shump's contract the next two years, it's like selling a pick for $21.3 million. Except the Cavs save a lot more because of the luxury tax, and the team getting him doesnt save the money unless it is what takes them over the floor threshold, so it isnt that simple.
when all is said and done I'd love to see an analysis of what the actual price is to take on a bad contract/get a #1. Seems to me that if the Cavs could trade a ~#28-32 overall pick to dump Shump's contract the next two years, it's like selling a pick for $21.3 million. Except the Cavs save a lot more because of the luxury tax, and the team getting him doesnt save the money unless it is what takes them over the floor threshold, so it isnt that simple.
Problem for the Cavs is picks lose value the longer you have to wait for them. A 2017 1st is worth more than a 2021 1st.
that the Pacers are "seriously" considering George to Boston and are advanced enough that they are looking to make other moves to clear roster spots for the guys they are getting for PG.
Ian Begley@IanBegley 5s5 seconds ago
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NYK & Clippers have had recent talks about SG Courtney Lee, sources tell Ramona Shelburne and I. http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0626483726108334742-4
If the Mavs pick isn't 19-30, it becomes a 2017 2nd and 2018 2nd. So it's very possible/likely the deal is Anderson + 2 2nd round picks for Noel.
Put aside your valuation of Noel. Anderson and 2 #2s is not nothing. It's 3 pieces I'd want on the Knicks. Those #2s could turn into gold.
People on here are expecting 2nd's for guys like Jennings so I'm not too impressed with a guy who is a career 29% 3 point shooter and 2 2nd round picks spread over 2 drafts. It seems like any quasi-decent player can bring back a 2 if you deal them at the right time.
Well it's like Jae Crowder again IMo. People are shitting on phil for not taking him in the Chandler deal but he never crossed 34% shooting until this year. He was shooting around 31% in dallas up to that point. I think Anderson is 100% that type of player. Do I think Philly lost that trade at this moment? Yes. Do I think they got peanuts for him? No. Anderson is playing behind Wesley Matthews and Harrison Barnes so there's reason why he's not getting more PT. He's more than just a 3 point shooter who can't shoot just yet at the NBA level. If he becomes even a league average 3 point shooter Philly has their starting SG spot set for the next 10 years.
He had an insanely cold stretch earlier in the season where he went 0-14 on 3s over a four game span. Take those four games out and he's at 34% for the season. I know they actually happened, but they really kind of tanked his numbers considering how Carlisle never liked him and didn't play him much at all in January.
love picks as much as the next guy but I think Ainge is making a mistake if he ends up passing on George or Butler because the 2017 pick. Horford is 31 in June, the Cavs are dinged etc. I get the idea "nobody is beating the Warriors" but is a rookie Fultz/Ball going to do that? George/Butler are youngish superstars.
3 trades in the last hour. We will be lucky to have a little one.
you dont know what has been sent to league office and what is agreed to...for all we know knicks have 3 trades lined up and just waiting to send to league office..
nba allows trades to be processed after 3 as long as teams call in before 3 to let league know
He had an insanely cold stretch earlier in the season where he went 0-14 on 3s over a four game span. Take those four games out and he's at 34% for the season. I know they actually happened, but they really kind of tanked his numbers considering how Carlisle never liked him and didn't play him much at all in January.
I was hoping when dallas was calling for KOQ they'd put Anderson on the table. But clearly they didn't have to give up that much more to get Noel.
Agree with the procedure. Take this (a friend of a friend) at 11:45 said they had nothing locked down. This person works in the marketing dept for NYK. (They usually prepare releases).
is practicing with the Wolves as we speak... read into that what you will.
You have to think if they were close they would hold him out. Also interesting timing of practice with Thibs being the head coach and GM. Wonder how that works. Stop practice to ask Thibs for final say?
Jonathan GivonyVerified account@DraftExpress 4m4 minutes ago
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The extremely low demand/yield for quality NBA big men on the trade market is a bad sign for the many big men prospects in the 2017 draft.
who the hell is the Knicks PG gonna be next season, and how do we acquire that player? Im reasonably scared. Not sure if they'll let a rookie PG start, barring a top 3 pick.
who the hell is the Knicks PG gonna be next season, and how do we acquire that player? Im reasonably scared. Not sure if they'll let a rookie PG start, barring a top 3 pick.
who the hell is the Knicks PG gonna be next season, and how do we acquire that player? Im reasonably scared. Not sure if they'll let a rookie PG start, barring a top 3 pick.
who the hell is the Knicks PG gonna be next season, and how do we acquire that player? Im reasonably scared. Not sure if they'll let a rookie PG start, barring a top 3 pick.
This is why getting Rubio makes sense. And Phil's dumbass is holding out for a Euro or pick. He's lucky he a found a taker for Rose and actually getting some value in return.
Frank IsolaVerified account@FisolaNYDN 17s17 seconds ago
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The deal would include Andre Roberson and Cam Payne.
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Frank IsolaVerified account@FisolaNYDN 2m2 minutes ago
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The Dougie McBuckets trade to OKC is getting closer, according to a league source.
Jonathan GivonyVerified account@DraftExpress 4m4 minutes ago
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The extremely low demand/yield for quality NBA big men on the trade market is a bad sign for the many big men prospects in the 2017 draft.
I guess interesting in the context of the draft, but no one here is terribly surprised. Teams arent playing two traditional bigs anymore. You play one big, and one stretch 4, unless you're lucky enough to have a good outside shooting big who can defend stretch 4s.
If you're a big, you better shoot 3s or protect the rim. The days of 10-10 power forwards seem over for now.
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Denver today made a "monster" offer to Indiana for Paul George, league sources tell @ChrisBHaynes and me, but the talks gained no traction.
Clevis MurrayVerified account@ClevisMurray 2m2 minutes ago
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The Oklahoma City Thunder have had talks with the Chicago Bulls on Doug McDermott and Taj Gibson. (Via The Vertical)
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Denver today made a "monster" offer to Indiana for Paul George, league sources tell @ChrisBHaynes and me, but the talks gained no traction.
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Final details on what OKC sends are being sorted, but Taj Gibson & Doug McDermott are about to become members of the Oklahoma City Thunder.
I think it's the opposite. He hasn't had a good point guard to faciliate an offense and so he has had an unnecessary burden upon himself to carry the offense.
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.
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Final details on what OKC sends are being sorted, but Taj Gibson & Doug McDermott are about to become members of the Oklahoma City Thunder.
I think it's the opposite. He hasn't had a good point guard to faciliate an offense and so he has had an unnecessary burden upon himself to carry the offense.
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.
Who on that list was Melo holding back?
Oh boy. I wouldn't bring that Up about rose with dep unless you have a few hours on your hand.
I think it's the opposite. He hasn't had a good point guard to faciliate an offense and so he has had an unnecessary burden upon himself to carry the offense.
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.
Who on that list was Melo holding back?
The problem is that every PG's numbers always decrease with melo on the team. Going back to his days in Denv.er I believe only 1 year did a PG exceded his career assist totals with Melo on the team, and that was andre miller.
Melo needs the ball to score. He isolates guy and use to either kill them with the jumper, take them of the dribble, or pull up. No matter the case, the ball usually stopped with him.
Denver offered must have been massive because the rumor now is that George basically killed it and not Indiana. I don't like their non-Jokic assets enough to come up with "massive" other than tons of picks.
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Final details on what OKC sends are being sorted, but Taj Gibson & Doug McDermott are about to become members of the Oklahoma City Thunder.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA 3m3 minutes ago
Sources: Philadelphia searching for defensive-minded guards to play with Ben Simmons. One target: Boston's Avery Bradley. No traction.
I think it's the opposite. He hasn't had a good point guard to faciliate an offense and so he has had an unnecessary burden upon himself to carry the offense.
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.
Who on that list was Melo holding back?
Knicks had a backcourt of Toney Douglas and Landry Fields. Doesn't get much worse than that.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA 3m3 minutes ago
Sources: Philadelphia searching for defensive-minded guards to play with Ben Simmons. One target: Boston's Avery Bradley. No traction.
I think it's the opposite. He hasn't had a good point guard to faciliate an offense and so he has had an unnecessary burden upon himself to carry the offense.
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.
Who on that list was Melo holding back?
The problem is that every PG's numbers always decrease with melo on the team. Going back to his days in Denv.er I believe only 1 year did a PG exceded his career assist totals with Melo on the team, and that was andre miller.
Melo needs the ball to score. He isolates guy and use to either kill them with the jumper, take them of the dribble, or pull up. No matter the case, the ball usually stopped with him.
Ray Felton averaged 9 assists a game in 2011. Chauncey Billups played very well with Melo in Denver and NY.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA 3m3 minutes ago
Sources: Philadelphia searching for defensive-minded guards to play with Ben Simmons. One target: Boston's Avery Bradley. No traction.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA 10s11 seconds ago
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Unloading McDaniels to the Nets frees $3M in cap space to use on the buyout market for Houston.
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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA 1m1 minute ago
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Houston has traded K.J. McDaniels to the Brooklyn Nets, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Gery Woelfel@GeryWoelfel 1m1 minute ago
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NBA officials contend Rubio-Rose trade rumors are alive and well. Both would be nice fits for their new teams. #NBATradeDeadline .
Gery Woelfel@GeryWoelfel 1m1 minute ago
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NBA officials contend Rubio-Rose trade rumors are alive and well. Both would be nice fits for their new teams. #NBATradeDeadline .
500 tweets from 50 different people over the past couple of days saying the exact same thing. Twitter sucks.
Minnespta is leaking the other information to pressure Phil into accepting their deal but it hasn't worked. Minnesota is offering up Rubio and Shazz to anybody that will take them. Nobody wants that except us. This deal will get done. It would be dumb not to and it sounds as if Minnesota will give Phil what he wants once we get close to that deadline.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA 3m3 minutes ago
Sources: Philadelphia searching for defensive-minded guards to play with Ben Simmons. One target: Boston's Avery Bradley. No traction.
I dont want to sound like Kramer, but this is my idea for them. Play Simmons at the 4, but the 1-2-3 should all be defenders/shooters. Your 1 could be a PG without PG skills. But importantly, dont end up with a 2nd non-shooter.
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On that front, I'm told Pacers' Larry Bird is still trying to get Paul George help as deadline nears: talking with Kings about Arron Afflalo
Minnespta is leaking the other information to pressure Phil into accepting their deal but it hasn't worked. Minnesota is offering up Rubio and Shazz to anybody that will take them. Nobody wants that except us. This deal will get done. It would be dumb not to and it sounds as if Minnesota will give Phil what he wants once we get close to that deadline.
Minnesota WANTS Rose or to be rid of Rubio. Knicks I think are more indifferent.
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On that front, I'm told Pacers' Larry Bird is still trying to get Paul George help as deadline nears: talking with Kings about Arron Afflalo
My prediction (if it happens): 2017 Brooklyn pick (no protections), Crowder, 2018 Boston 1st, future Grizz 1st + Zeller/Young for PG-13.- Bill Simmons Twitter
That's a nice haul for the Pacers. If I'm Larry Bird, I would have to take that.
Shams CharaniaVerified account@ShamsCharania
For now, New York and Minnesota talks for a Derrick Rose trade have stalled significantly, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Felton was on pre-Melo was a D'Antoni team that was 3rd in pace, inflating his assist numbers. The 2012 team under Woodson dropped to 26th in pace. Efficient offensively, but slower pace.
Felton got fat and out of shape as he got older. He had positive numbers in Charlotte and the Knicks the first go around, then dipped in Portland, came back up in NY (with Melo) and now stink again. It's why he's an afterthought in the league right now and has been since he left the Knicks.
Even that is playing semantics. Felton hasn't accomplished anything in the league beyond All-rookie 2nd-team. If that's the zenith of point guard success Melo had in NY, the point still stands.
Shams CharaniaVerified account@ShamsCharania
Sources: OKC and Chicago are nearing agreement on a trade to send package centered on Cameron Payne for Doug McDermott and Taj Gibson.
Shams CharaniaVerified account@ShamsCharania
Sources: OKC and Chicago are nearing agreement on a trade to send package centered on Cameron Payne for Doug McDermott and Taj Gibson.
Shams CharaniaVerified account@ShamsCharania
OKC sending Joffrey Lauvergne and Anthony Morrow, w/ CHI sending '18 second-round pick with McDermott and Gibson, sources tell @TheVertical.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
Milwaukee is finalzing a deal to send Roy Hibbert to the Denver Nuggets, league sources tell @TheVertical.
[Charania] OKC sending Joffrey Lauvergne and Anthony Morrow, w/ CHI sending '18 second-round pick with McDermott and Gibson, sources tell @TheVertical.
My prediction (if it happens): 2017 Brooklyn pick (no protections), Crowder, 2018 Boston 1st, future Grizz 1st + Zeller/Young for PG-13.- Bill Simmons Twitter
That's a nice haul for the Pacers. If I'm Larry Bird, I would have to take that.
The Celtics would have to get George to waive his opt-out or it would be dumb for Ainge to do that. However, I would much rather have George than Butler. At this point, I think I would rather hold on to the picks than give them up for Butler.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
Indiana has passed on trade offers for Paul George and All-Star forward will remain with the Pacers, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Ian Begley@IanBegley 12s12 seconds ago
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A half hour ago, MIN had been unwilling to give up an additional asset in talks with NYK on a Rose trade, per source. Who blinks first here?
I wont even list CP3, Lowry, Curry, Holiday....they aren't leaving. After that your getting to George Hill( doubtful he leaves from all reports, Jeff Teague- would not want him and then Derrick Rose, Patty Mills, Darren Collison.
Do you want Collison or Teague? Going to have to overpay them too. Hard pass from me.
you guys killed Knicks GMs for blinking or being the GM to cave first. Phil isn't caving and you're still killing the Knicks GM.
Wait it out. If we are stuck with Rose so be it. At least he's off the books after the year. Rubio would be interesting but he's on the books for 2 more years. I do want him here though.
you cant blame him for asking for another asset, if no one wants to deal with him kind of hard to make trades
Not even upset about rose. Look I get your take on phil, and yes he's been better than past GMs but what has he done at a high level? He's a replacement level GM. That's fine. The Knicks have their picks. Fantastic.now let's get a better GM.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
@WojVerticalNBA
The Phoenix Suns are trading PJ Tucker to the Toronto Raptors, league source tells @TheVertical.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
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Sources: Toronto is sending Jared Sullinger and two future second-round picks to Phoenix for PJ Tucker.
you guys killed Knicks GMs for blinking or being the GM to cave first. Phil isn't caving and you're still killing the Knicks GM.
Wait it out. If we are stuck with Rose so be it. At least he's off the books after the year. Rubio would be interesting but he's on the books for 2 more years. I do want him here though.
If the reports are true and you could have traded Rose for Rubio straight up...then this is a massive fail. Rubio is more valuable and a better fit. Rose is expiring so he's now gone. You have to maximize your assets and Phil is terrible at doing that.
Following this loser organization, please, it is the only way to get what we all want. Phil is a total failure and does not give two fucks about the Knicks, cares too much about himself. Dolan is beyond words and is despicable. Time for fans to do what must be done, stop going, stop following and make them a nothing, then change will come.
Oh well, just keep losing. Knicks schedule eases up a bit in March - hopefully Melo takes his foot off the gas not that he's made the All-Star team and the deadline is over. Too many 30-point games will have us drafting Ivan Rabb in the first round.
Hopefully, they can continue to add losses with their horrific defense.
I was infinitely less worried about the "returns" than I was interested in turning the page to the future and tanking the shit out of the rest of the season.
Following this loser organization, please, it is the only way to get what we all want. Phil is a total failure and does not give two fucks about the Knicks, cares too much about himself. Dolan is beyond words and is despicable. Time for fans to do what must be done, stop going, stop following and make them a nothing, then change will come.
lol and if he traded rose for rubio straight up you would be screaming and yelling he added salary to the payroll...
you guys killed Knicks GMs for blinking or being the GM to cave first. Phil isn't caving and you're still killing the Knicks GM.
Wait it out. If we are stuck with Rose so be it. At least he's off the books after the year. Rubio would be interesting but he's on the books for 2 more years. I do want him here though.
If the reports are true and you could have traded Rose for Rubio straight up...then this is a massive fail. Rubio is more valuable and a better fit. Rose is expiring so he's now gone. You have to maximize your assets and Phil is terrible at doing that.
It's a massive fail? Really? When did Rubio turn into John Stockton? I wanted the guy but he isn't elite or close to it based on numbers. And he's making a lot of money for an additional two years. If the Knicks signed Rubio last offseason for 3 years at close to max people here would have shit sideways and killed Jackson. Now all of a sudden the Knicks are a joke..
And you don't know for sure if the Wolves wanted more than Rose. Save me the twitter rumor horse shit. I want facts.
Following this loser organization, please, it is the only way to get what we all want. Phil is a total failure and does not give two fucks about the Knicks, cares too much about himself. Dolan is beyond words and is despicable. Time for fans to do what must be done, stop going, stop following and make them a nothing, then change will come.
they are god awful and still worth the most money as a franchise
a trude for Rubio, especially straight up, was as dumb as dumb can be. He is not a very good player. He has never been. So trading Rose for a below average player the next 2 years makes no sense.
At least with rose, if you dont want him at the end of the year, he is gone, and his contract is gone. rubio has never made a NBA team good in his career, and wouldnt do so with the Knicks. He has been on the market for over a year now, and no one wants him. That may be true with Rose as well.... but you arent missing on a key piece. Taking on a contract at a position where your looking to improve upon instead of letting a guy walk at the end of the year makes no sense.
but all these rumors...trades...whatever...they all are secondary to what really matters. The Knicks HAVE to nail their next draft pick. They had to nail the KP draft. And they have to nail this next draft. All these trades and little moves mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things. The Knicks will only go as far as these drafts they have lined up, which still includes KP's progress.
It's KP and this draft or bust. Some decent PG who may help a bit isn't going to define the Knicks when they matter again. I can promise you that.
Jeff ZillgittVerified account@JeffZillgitt
Again, Knicks had eye on Bjelica, too. If T'Wolves really want Rose, they can get him as free agent this summer. And still trade Rubio.
LOL, the Kings basically screwed up the trading deadline for everyone
Teams demanding 1st round picks. Teams trying to acquire players saying but..but... Pelicans didn't have to give up that much for Boogie why should I give you all that for lesser guys?
RE: look I want a pass first PG and can't stand Rose
but all these rumors...trades...whatever...they all are secondary to what really matters. The Knicks HAVE to nail their next draft pick. They had to nail the KP draft. And they have to nail this next draft. All these trades and little moves mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things. The Knicks will only go as far as these drafts they have lined up, which still includes KP's progress.
It's KP and this draft or bust. Some decent PG who may help a bit isn't going to define the Knicks when they matter again. I can promise you that.
I think Monk is going to drop to the Knicks. he has stagnated lately whetherby fatigue or defenses figuring him out.
If he is drafted by the Knicks, he should be the PG instantly. Take some lumps the first few years.
Jeff ZillgittVerified account@JeffZillgitt
Again, Knicks had eye on Bjelica, too. If T'Wolves really want Rose, they can get him as free agent this summer. And still trade Rubio.
Bingo. Rose being a free agent hurt his value instead of increasing it this year.
Come on guys - if this was Isaiah, the Knicks would
have traded 2 future #1 picks for Rubio. It's not like he suddenly would have made them a championship contender. Maybe Minny decided they didn't want Rose after all.
I'm more disappointed we couldn't pick up an extra pick or two for OQuinn or Jennings
RE: look I want a pass first PG and can't stand Rose
but all these rumors...trades...whatever...they all are secondary to what really matters. The Knicks HAVE to nail their next draft pick. They had to nail the KP draft. And they have to nail this next draft. All these trades and little moves mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things. The Knicks will only go as far as these drafts they have lined up, which still includes KP's progress.
It's KP and this draft or bust. Some decent PG who may help a bit isn't going to define the Knicks when they matter again. I can promise you that.
Thats fair enough. Don't really care about Rubio or Rose. I just don't trust this organization enough to not give Rose $20M a year in this offseason. Only real reason I was rooting for the trade.
let rose walk in the summer. Add another crop of young talent in this draft. Coach the shit out of KP, Gomez and the kids and see what happens. Keeping Melo isn't even terrible. He's a good player that can help the team stay somewhat competitive while the kids mature. Melo isn't even hurting the tank cause.
Jeff ZillgittVerified account@JeffZillgitt
Again, Knicks had eye on Bjelica, too. If T'Wolves really want Rose, they can get him as free agent this summer. And still trade Rubio.
Bingo. Rose being a free agent hurt his value instead of increasing it this year.
But in the past teams were able to secure picks to not even let a player reach FA so they have the right to extend and lock in a player. Thinking about Wallace and Melo type trades.
RE: Come on guys - if this was Isaiah, the Knicks would
have traded 2 future #1 picks for Rubio. It's not like he suddenly would have made them a championship contender. Maybe Minny decided they didn't want Rose after all.
I'm more disappointed we couldn't pick up an extra pick or two for OQuinn or Jennings
nobody was giving up a first after the pelicans got cousins for free...
look at noel he got traded basically for 2 2nd roudn pickz
I love how all the supporters of Phil point to him not trading future picks. Some baseline. Not exactly the mark of a great GM.
The guy has been a failure and is a joke. Throw that big money at a top proven GM, not a senial old man.
The crazy thing is that the big plus he gets on drafting KP, he basically still tried to trade up to get Russell and Okafor off a season where he predicted they would go the playoffs. He has been pretty horrible.
no way. He's everything the Knicks probably expected him to be, and feared. He hasn't dazzled but he hasn't been a massive disappointment. He's on pace to miss about 25 games or so. Just for good measure the Knicks also didn't really give up anything to get Rose. There's little to no sunk cost. He's done with the Knicks.
I love how all the supporters of Phil point to him not trading future picks. Some baseline. Not exactly the mark of a great GM.
The guy has been a failure and is a joke. Throw that big money at a top proven GM, not a senial old man.
The crazy thing is that the big plus he gets on drafting KP, he basically still tried to trade up to get Russell and Okafor off a season where he predicted they would go the playoffs. He has been pretty horrible.
when did he try to trade up?
and what is wrong with thinking you are going to make the playoffs, melo gets hurt and shifting the ciurse and tanking? isnt that a good thing he had the forsight to change directions?
RE: there's no way the knicks pay rose to stay here long term
no way. He's everything the Knicks probably expected him to be, and feared. He hasn't dazzled but he hasn't been a massive disappointment. He's on pace to miss about 25 games or so. Just for good measure the Knicks also didn't really give up anything to get Rose. There's little to no sunk cost. He's done with the Knicks.
they actually gained an asset with the 2nd round pick
Even if you believe Rose being an expiring somehow hurt his value
fans are going to kill Jackson because he didn't make any moves that fans unrealistically expected. Twitter fucking blows. Just because some "writer" throws shit against the wall and "reports" that teams have shown interest in a Knicks player or the trade is done doesn't make it so. We don't know what Minny wanted for Rubio. For all we know they insited on Rose and a first or second rounder? Would you do that trade?> Fuck no.
Even if it was one for one...you're taking on more salary and minny is getting off scott free. When the Knicks tried to trade that 3 year big contract in year's past did any other team bite or bail us out? Fuck no. Now you're killing the Knicks for being patient?
In comment 13369670 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
that the Knicks are headed nowhere.
how are they headed nowhere?
they have 2 young pieces, their first round pick this year and 2 2nd round picks, cap flexibility..
really wouldnt aay nowhere
Cap flexibility? They have 65 million tied up between Melo/ Noah/ Lee/ Thomas for the next 3 seasons ( 2 for Melo).
In the 2019/2020 season when KP will be in his 5th season and up for a big payday, they have 40 million committed to Lee/ Noah/ Thomas. Those guys are going to be in their mid 30s and most likely not any good. It's poor planning from Phil.
He should have done a full rebuild around KP this past offseason. Instead he made them just good enough to pick outside the top 5.
RE: Even if you believe Rose being an expiring somehow hurt his value
In comment 13369670 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
that the Knicks are headed nowhere.
how are they headed nowhere?
they have 2 young pieces, their first round pick this year and 2 2nd round picks, cap flexibility..
really wouldnt aay nowhere
Cap flexibility? They have 65 million tied up between Melo/ Noah/ Lee/ Thomas for the next 3 seasons ( 2 for Melo).
In the 2019/2020 season when KP will be in his 5th season and up for a big payday, they have 40 million committed to Lee/ Noah/ Thomas. Those guys are going to be in their mid 30s and most likely not any good. It's poor planning from Phil.
He should have done a full rebuild around KP this past offseason. Instead he made them just good enough to pick outside the top 5.
and the cap will be around 110 million..
by 2019 it maybe 130...
they are losing and have young pieces in place with a top pick coming..
go look at what the knicks had 3 years agao compared to now and tell me they are not in a better position..
besides lee noah and melo their oldest player is going to be kuz at 27 and he makes 3 million...
I think there's way too much worry about those contracts you listed. Let's get to 3-4 years from now first before we cry that the Knicks will be hamstrung. PLus, Lee and Melo can be traded from all accounts.
I love how all the supporters of Phil point to him not trading future picks. Some baseline. Not exactly the mark of a great GM.
The guy has been a failure and is a joke. Throw that big money at a top proven GM, not a senial old man.
The crazy thing is that the big plus he gets on drafting KP, he basically still tried to trade up to get Russell and Okafor off a season where he predicted they would go the playoffs. He has been pretty horrible.
when did he try to trade up?
and what is wrong with thinking you are going to make the playoffs, melo gets hurt and shifting the ciurse and tanking? isnt that a good thing he had the forsight to change directions?
Prior the draft. Philly and NY media were all over this topic.
And as far as foresight goes... I'm not sure he had much of a choice but watch his team flame out. It's not he making these moves to land a top lottery pick. Even his coach said they were trying to win games but just can't get wins. Most of the guys he talked about developing aren't even on the team with the exception of Thomas. So...
with or without those "bad" contracts, even Noah, it will come down to the drafts. Nothing else matters. If the Knicks are sitting here 2-3 years from now with a budding superstar in KP (hopefully) and a top ten PG from this draft? They will be just fine.
You had a team interested and couldn't finish because you expected too much of a return.
So instead we just let an asset walk out the door for nothing.
Or "cap space" when everyone is in agreement that the team doesn't need to be adding expensive long term deals.
how do you know twolves were not asking for more?
Obviously that changes the conversation, but if they were asking for something unreasonable, this deal isn't being negotiated right up to the deadline and in the news for days.
For everyone who keeps saying "kids' and "young pieces"...the Knicks have 2. KP and Willy who probably play the same position. Not complaining about them at all but besides them who's on this roster that's on the same "arc" as them? Please don't say Kuzmingas. They don't exactly have a treasure chest of young players.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
and i dont remember reading once he tried to trade up, i remember seeing people say he wanted to trade down or was in love with winslow
The assumption was that the Lakers would take either Russell or Okafor. But if Deangelo was off the board that Philly would be willing to trade down since they had no need for another big since in the prior years they already drafted big. Winslow or Mudiay were thought to be the picks if the Knicks didn't trade down for Kaminsky who the Knicks also liked.
please sign Jones, offering him playing time. He's 25 with a 16.32 PER, just dropped 36 and 11 on the Cavs a few weeks back.
Don't think we have any playing time for him. I was more surprised that a team that is holding tryouts to fill out their rotation is cutting arguably their 4th best player.
For everyone who keeps saying "kids' and "young pieces"...the Knicks have 2. KP and Willy who probably play the same position. Not complaining about them at all but besides them who's on this roster that's on the same "arc" as them? Please don't say Kuzmingas. They don't exactly have a treasure chest of young players.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
how do you expect them to trade rose if no one wanted him?
and adding 3 picks is not adding 3 young guys to kp and hernangomez?
holiday is not a young player?
yoi act like the knicks are stuck with this team with no way to improve
RE: RE: he traded away smith and shumper for nothing
and i dont remember reading once he tried to trade up, i remember seeing people say he wanted to trade down or was in love with winslow
The assumption was that the Lakers would take either Russell or Okafor. But if Deangelo was off the board that Philly would be willing to trade down since they had no need for another big since in the prior years they already drafted big. Winslow or Mudiay were thought to be the picks if the Knicks didn't trade down for Kaminsky who the Knicks also liked.
i never read the knicks were trying to move up, never once...
fsct is no one knew who the knicks loked til after when it came out gaines told phil he had to draft kp..
Why were those guys bought out? What am I missing?
I guess so Deron can go play for a contender. NO is trying to make the playoffs so no idea why they'd do that. Unless they're trying to get a top 3 pick still...
The immediate future of the franchise hinges on draft night. We need an impact PG or wing player in the top 10, and at least another contributor later on. Lee and O'Quinn are tradeable assets, but no need to force it right now. We'll be OK if we truly commit to rebuilding - but, will we finally do that? I have my doubts.
For everyone who keeps saying "kids' and "young pieces"...the Knicks have 2. KP and Willy who probably play the same position. Not complaining about them at all but besides them who's on this roster that's on the same "arc" as them? Please don't say Kuzmingas. They don't exactly have a treasure chest of young players.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
how do you expect them to trade rose if no one wanted him?
and adding 3 picks is not adding 3 young guys to kp and hernangomez?
holiday is not a young player?
yoi act like the knicks are stuck with this team with no way to improve
I'd rather than cut Rose to be honest. But I was referring to Jennings/ KOQ/ Lee- anyone who could bring back something to build on.
Holiday is 28 and not that good. He's not young or good. There's definitely ways to improve this team, Phil's just not doing them.
the bulls had to give up a pick to trade gibson who is better than oquinn..
noel got traded for 2 2nd round picks..
much better than oquinn...
you dont just give away players with value..
Excellent point NYG16. Plenty will happen pre draft day
I don't understand why people are pissed
The most important thing that needs to happen now is that the Knicks continue to lose
if he had traded for pj tucker or a longer contract of a veteran than i would have killed him but i am not going to kill phil for not making a deal
So the Cavs are going to get Bogut/ Deron for nothing? Unbelievable.
Also, I really respect Ainge/ Morey/ Marks and other GMs who actually address the media. Fans are really interested in this and want to hear from the GM directly. We don't want to hear from Berman of the Post. Jackson hasn't addressed the media once since the season started. Unreal.
The immediate future of the franchise hinges on draft night. We need an impact PG or wing player in the top 10, and at least another contributor later on. Lee and O'Quinn are tradeable assets, but no need to force it right now. We'll be OK if we truly commit to rebuilding - but, will we finally do that? I have my doubts.
lottery night and draft day will be 2 very important days for the knicks...
of course watch the knicks go like 20 and 5 down the stretch and make the playoffs...
believe there is a single person who will stick up for Phil, it is SICKENING how bad he has done. He is WORSE then Isiah Thomas, and when he is gone then the people who refuse to wake the fuck up now will realize it, but I'm sure they will either disappear or make their excuses. Anyone who is not outraged at the job he has done is beyond words. he has been HORRIBLE.
believe there is a single person who will stick up for Phil, it is SICKENING how bad he has done. He is WORSE then Isiah Thomas, and when he is gone then the people who refuse to wake the fuck up now will realize it, but I'm sure they will either disappear or make their excuses. Anyone who is not outraged at the job he has done is beyond words. he has been HORRIBLE.
instead of screaming and yelling..
you want to give some examples of what he should of done differently? besides noah whcih i think everyone agrees with..
the Mavs are "all-in" on Yogi and released Deron as a courtesy. His short list is apparently 2 teams, Jazz and Cavs.
How can a team be all in on a guy that spent all of 10 games on the sacred Brookyln Nets before they deemed he had no use in the NBA??
You'd have to ask them lol
Haha I was being facetious. He's probably going to end up being better than all the young prospects currently on the Nets roster. Still think its laughable the Nets thought they had too much depth to give him a shot.
not see this myself so could be total BS but someone on twitter was claiming Woj reported Ainge offered BOTH Nets picks in deals for George (and possibly Butler)? Hard to believe teams would turn that down.
NOBODY is coming here, NOBODY. Not anyone good, only mediocre players who Phil grossly overpays, like he has done since he got here. Have fun, and anyone who is honest knows he lucked into Porzingis, he didn't even want him! He couldn't trade up! LOL! Unreal. anyone who thinks he has done a good job is, I don't want to say. Donnie Walsh, HE, did a good job. That is the only reason anything good has happened here.
it's gonna be funny when Yogi is the second coming of Linsanity
but when was the last trade deadline where the knicks had any desirable players? Rose, Jennings, KOQ, Kuz, Melo(I wish). Every other trade deadline is some pipedream.
believe there is a single person who will stick up for Phil, it is SICKENING how bad he has done. He is WORSE then Isiah Thomas, and when he is gone then the people who refuse to wake the fuck up now will realize it, but I'm sure they will either disappear or make their excuses. Anyone who is not outraged at the job he has done is beyond words. he has been HORRIBLE.
You're just wrong. He's not even remotely as bad as Isiah. Isiah traded what eventually became the SECOND pick in the draft for Eddy Curry. Isiah showed neither respect for draft picks nor restraint when it came to free agency... it was a total fuck-up. And keep in mind, Isiah was better than Scott Layden.
NOBODY is coming here, NOBODY. Not anyone good, only mediocre players who Phil grossly overpays, like he has done since he got here. Have fun, and anyone who is honest knows he lucked into Porzingis, he didn't even want him! He couldn't trade up! LOL! Unreal. anyone who thinks he has done a good job is, I don't want to say. Donnie Walsh, HE, did a good job. That is the only reason anything good has happened here.
Phil didnt want porzingis? is that why his number 1 guy told him he had to draft him no matter what?
NOBODY is coming here, NOBODY. Not anyone good, only mediocre players who Phil grossly overpays, like he has done since he got here. Have fun, and anyone who is honest knows he lucked into Porzingis, he didn't even want him! He couldn't trade up! LOL! Unreal. anyone who thinks he has done a good job is, I don't want to say. Donnie Walsh, HE, did a good job. That is the only reason anything good has happened here.
Phil lucked into kp? do you realize how many gms and media members ripped phil for drafting kp?
how does someone luck into draftimg someone that he got ripped for draftimg..
and my bet is you were one of the people ripping him whem he drafted kp
NOBODY is coming here, NOBODY. Not anyone good, only mediocre players who Phil grossly overpays, like he has done since he got here. Have fun, and anyone who is honest knows he lucked into Porzingis, he didn't even want him! He couldn't trade up! LOL! Unreal. anyone who thinks he has done a good job is, I don't want to say. Donnie Walsh, HE, did a good job. That is the only reason anything good has happened here.
Donnie Walsh? No he didn't do a good job. I don't know what you're on about.
I'm wrong, he is not as bad as him. How happy are you now, I admitted I was wrong, although history is not done. he tried to trade up, but don't believe it. he has been just great.
I'm wrong, he is not as bad as him. How happy are you now, I admitted I was wrong, although history is not done. he tried to trade up, but don't believe it. he has been just great.
you have any proof he tried to trade up? because every news outlet said he tried to trade down..
yes, Isiah at least had a decent eye for college talent
Layden did absolutely nothing positive. The Ewing trade was an unmitigated disaster that handicapped the team for years. He traded Nene and Camby for Antonio McDyess' wrecked knee and Frank fucking Williams. He traded for two horrific contracts in Eisley and Anderson, sinking the team even further into cap hell. And, of course, he gave Houston that ludicrous contract.
Again - I remain stunned that he got another GM job in the NBA, although it did take him 13 years to get it.
he tried to trade up, that is how much he wanted him. He was a fall back, and was advised to take him when he failed to trade up. big victory, Walsh cleared cap space and set the team right after the what Thomas did, imagine if this fool would have followed Thomas? Phil has been horrible and people who are diluting themselves into thinking he is doing well are just that.
he tried to trade up, that is how much he wanted him. He was a fall back, and was advised to take him when he failed to trade up. big victory, Walsh cleared cap space and set the team right after the what Thomas did, imagine if this fool would have followed Thomas? Phil has been horrible and people who are diluting themselves into thinking he is doing well are just that.
again do you have proof he tried to trade up? i dont remember him trying to trade up..
walsh sold his assets 50 cents on the dollar and then traded 1st round picks to get rid of jared jefferies...
he drafted gallo good and jordan hill with lottery picks..
he aig ed stat to 100 million because he panicked he was not going to sign anyone..
Nearly everyone that covers the league thought the Wolves trading Rubio for Rose was idiotic. Yet, the Knicks decline the deal.
anyone who trades an expiring for a longer deal 9 tomes out of ten gets another asset
The Knicks would have been getting an asset - they'd be getting the better player with a lower price tag.
a lower price tag? rubio is signed for another 3 years at 13 million a year...
AAV is more important (IMO) than total contract value. For one thing, the Knicks are not cash-poor, so the total contract value isn't a problem. For another, they're going to spend cap room if they have it. And finally, they're going to need a PG anyway. So yes, it's a lower price tag in the way that I'm looking at it.
What do you think Rubio would get on the open market if he were a free agent this offseason? What do you think the Knicks will spend on a FA PG this offseason? And will they get a PG at least as good as Rubio for whatever they spend? Most importantly, this ensures that Rose walks and they will have gotten nothing in return for him. None of the second pieces that were speculated about were significant enough to have been dealbreakers. Ultimately, it seems foolish (again, IMO) that Phil would have been willing to deal Rose for Rubio + Bjelica, but not Rubio straight up.
I doubled the meds, even though I'm not on any. LOL. Listen, it is sickening what is happening and the only solution is to freeze the Garden out, Phil Jackson knows basketball, but he simply don't give a fuck about what he is doing at all, he took the money and that is it. Where is the press conference to explain why he did what he did today? LOL! He is too good for that and too smart, you accept that, fine, I happen to believe it is a slap in the face to any fan. You are entitled to your opinion and are not the guy fucking over the fan base, so it's time for me to step away, yea, I am passionate. I have never seen folly like this before from an organization that is so beloved by the fans. Sorry if that galls me to death.
he tried to trade up, that is how much he wanted him. He was a fall back, and was advised to take him when he failed to trade up. big victory, Walsh cleared cap space and set the team right after the what Thomas did, imagine if this fool would have followed Thomas? Phil has been horrible and people who are diluting themselves into thinking he is doing well are just that.
Has produced no big names in free agency when he did have all that cap space, and that will continue now that the garden is viewed so poorly and by the way Phil has treated Carmelo. That alone is enough to fire Phil, you add up all the bad moves and you have the worst organization in basketball.
Ultimately, it seems foolish (again, IMO) that Phil would have been willing to deal Rose for Rubio + Bjelica, but not Rubio straight up.
What are you going on about? The report was that the Knicks offered Rose one for one for Rubio and it was Minnesota who said no.
Where was that? Maybe I wasn't following closely enough down to the wire, but most of the day it was that Phil was holding out for a second piece, wasn't it?
Stein was the one who reported Wolves turning down 1 for 1.
As the Knicks they will live and die with the upcoming 1st (and upcoming picks). Maybe we can dream Melo opens up his list in the off-season and the Knicks add an asset or 2 in a Melo deal but realistically it's KP/Willy guy we add this year and build upon that.
Signed Carmelo Anthony to this contract. How was that move? IF HE DIDNT SIGN MELO YOU WOULD OF KILLED HIM
He hired Fisher as his first coach, how was that move? ACTUALLY HE HIRED KERR BUT KERR ASKED HIM TO LET HIM GO TO GS AND HE DID
He signed Lopez, then traded him for Rose. How was that move, now that they are stuck with Rose.
HE ALSO GOT A 2ND ROUND PICK IN THAT DEAL AND IT IS LOOKING LIKE A HIGH 2ND
He traded away JR Smith for nothing. How was that move?
JR SMITH WAS CONSIDERED UNTRADEABLE AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE AND HE TRADED HIM BECAUSE KNICKS DECIDED TO TANK
He hired Hornacek. How was that move? STILL TO EARLY TO TLL
He signed Noah to an outrageous contract. How was that move?EVERYONE ALREADY AGREED BAD DEAL
He signed Lee and Jennings, how were those moves?JENNINGS IS AN EXPIRING SO DOESNT HURT ANYTHING, LEE IS A GOOD VET DOESNT REALLY HURT ANYTHING
he devalued his best asset to the point of no return, the guy he signed to start. How was that move?MELO WAS GOING NOWHERE EITHER WAY BECAUSE OF HIS NTC, HIM SAYING BAD STUFF ABOUT MELO DIDNT MAKE THE CLIPPERS LOW BALL THE KNICKS
He was so convinced that Rose was going to be great for the Knicks that he signed Noah to that contract. How was that move?ALREADY SAID NOAH
Ultimately, it seems foolish (again, IMO) that Phil would have been willing to deal Rose for Rubio + Bjelica, but not Rubio straight up.
What are you going on about? The report was that the Knicks offered Rose one for one for Rubio and it was Minnesota who said no.
Where was that? Maybe I wasn't following closely enough down to the wire, but most of the day it was that Phil was holding out for a second piece, wasn't it?
Nevermind - I just saw it in the post-deadline flurry. That changes my view, obviously, as I was still under the impression that it was Phil's insistence on a second piece that was that sticking point.
like to go on record and state if Derrick Rose plays "a little better" second half and we give him an extension I will cease following the Knicks until Phil Jackson is gone.
like to go on record and state if Derrick Rose plays "a little better" second half and we give him an extension I will cease following the Knicks until Phil Jackson is gone.
this may get me killed but i think if melo was off the team we would not hate rose as much..
like to go on record and state if Derrick Rose plays "a little better" second half and we give him an extension I will cease following the Knicks until Phil Jackson is gone.
this may get me killed but i think if melo was off the team we would not hate rose as much..
That may or may not be so but either Melo is here next year OR you deal Melo and fully are looking to rebuild so it's hard to formulate a scenario where we would find out. You don't deal Melo and retain Rose.
like to go on record and state if Derrick Rose plays "a little better" second half and we give him an extension I will cease following the Knicks until Phil Jackson is gone.
this may get me killed but i think if melo was off the team we would not hate rose as much..
That may or may not be so but either Melo is here next year OR you deal Melo and fully are looking to rebuild so it's hard to formulate a scenario where we would find out. You don't deal Melo and retain Rose.
i agree, my big fear is this team goes on a run and the entire team is brought back
what exactly constitutes "going on a run" for this team?
Im mostly happy that we didnt make a bad trade. It is staggeringly common to make bad trades in the NBA. It's just so hard to get to a winning hand. Teams are getting smarter about keeping picks in the last year or so.
I think a lot of the lack of movement was that the best teams had nothing to trade due to legacy deals.
Note that Berman's lede is that we turned down the swap. I suspect both NY and MIN want to claim they turned down the 1 for 1. More plausible from NY IMO.
Embiid is ruled out the next 4 games (we play them twice in that span) and no Noel. Likely wins.
Also play Orlando twice in the next 2 weeks. Good news is that there are 10 road games next month and the 4 Philly/Orlando games are the only guaranteed wins I see.
we didn't trade a single player for anything to rebuild the future. Same under achievers who can't play D and are zero fun to watch. I just watch here and there, hoping for losses because that is the only way we have a shot at winning a championship.
But I'll take that over the disasters that were Layden and Isiah. Faint praise, I know.
Noah's contract will be worst than Curry who actually put up big numbers when he did play. Thomas traded for Randolph and Crawford, two players who went on to be all-stars and Crawford a multiple six man of the year winner. He drafted David Lee with the last pick in the 1st round who received a max contract. Trevor Ariza was a key member on the 2009 Lakers championship team. Fyre won it with Cleveland last year. Only two of the players he drafted did not receive a second contract in the NBA Collins and Balkman. I forgot he also drafted Wilson Chandler in the later part of the draft. The funny thing is that Isiah has drafted better than most Knicks GMs in over 30 years.
Phil also drafted Grant, Early and the Greek's Freak's brother. Two of them are already out of the league and Grant appears to be soon on his way. Layden drafts were just horrendous and Walsh biggest draft piece was Gallo who was scouted by Isiah. Walsh/D'Antonio declared their 2009 lottery pick to be bad rookie after only six months.
Thomas's failures are well known, and so are his plusses
But, really Rubio wasn't making the team better short term or long term, so why pull the trigger. I'd rather get a pick back, but freeing up his cap space is equally as important.
I'm still not 100% sure where I stand on Melo. Last year, I was staunchly in favor of building a team with him in mind. Now, his lack of defense is no longer overshadowed as much by his offense, as his scoring is on the decline. So, getting an asset for him would have been welcome. But, I'm still not convinced they can't win with him here.
He can't be the best player on the team, and he would have to be paid less so they have the flexibility to put a very talented team around him to offset his current defensive ability/want to.
#Knicks talks have continued with #twolves the teams are close however NY I'm told asking for a bit more.
thibs?
#Knicks talks have continued with #twolves the teams are close however NY I'm told asking for a bit more.
jon he is very good, and doesnt just post random rumors, only posts what he hears, if he doesnt hear it will not post
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begely says deal is getting closer and would be shocked if it is not done
thibs?
sorry thibs wants a high first for rubio
woj is good at breaking trades but he doesnt know shit when it comes to the knicks,
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In comment 13368672 nygiants16 said:
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begely says deal is getting closer and would be shocked if it is not done
thibs?
sorry thibs wants a high first for rubio
Makes no sense. Rumor for weeks was that MIN would attach Shabbaz to get out from Rubio. Now Rubio nets a lottery pick?
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In comment 13368677 Deej said:
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In comment 13368672 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
begely says deal is getting closer and would be shocked if it is not done
thibs?
sorry thibs wants a high first for rubio
Makes no sense. Rumor for weeks was that MIN would attach Shabbaz to get out from Rubio. Now Rubio nets a lottery pick?
Yeah that doesnt add up at all.
whem ot comes to woj if he is not breaking trades i take him with a grain of salt...he writes with a bias so if someone tells him something he writes in their favor
I could buy the Knicks circling back to BOS late in the day if the Celts havent gotten Butler or George. We're better off resolving the Melo situation over the summer when maybe he'll expand his list. Knicks need to tell him that they're rebuilding, with or without him.
....along with the rest of the Knicks, unfortunately.
Guy is going to be 33 in May. It's very clear the Knicks won't be contending for 2-3 years -- at the earliest! So is he willing to spend the last couple of his career on non-playoff teams?
I totally understand putting family first -- however, going to Boston, or Washington, at the very least (besides Cleveland and LA) are just a hop and a skip from NY. And those teams are playoff teams and Boston is a real up and coming team.
Just doesn't make sense to me.
DanMetroMan : 2/22/2017 3:06 pm : link : reply
He has not been good but keep an eye on this guy... Knicks previously tried acquiring his rights via trade
Link - ( New Window ) http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4269/nemanja-bjelica%20#Knicks
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Guy is going to be 33 in May. It's very clear the Knicks won't be contending for 2-3 years -- at the earliest! So is he willing to spend the last couple of his career on non-playoff teams?
I totally understand putting family first -- however, going to Boston, or Washington, at the very least (besides Cleveland and LA) are just a hop and a skip from NY. And those teams are playoff teams and Boston is a real up and coming team.
Just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't get it either. Even if he gets traded this offseason, its another year of wear until he gets to play in the playoffs. He also has an opt out after next season, so he's essentially "moving" from now until the end of the playoffs and then next season. Can keep his base in NY easily. And I believe he has a house in LA and spends his offseason there.
I know its not happening, but if the Clippers offered Crawford/ Rivers/ B. Johnson, D. Stone and unprotected future first( either 2021/2022) for Melo, do you accept that. Crawford's contract is only guaranteed for 3 mill in 2018-2019 so essentially it's expiring next season. I know the return sucks but is it really getting better in the offseason/ next year?
I just worry about having him on the Knicks making 30 million in 2019.
Totally agree. The ONLY advantage to dealing Melo now for a garbage deal is a higher draft pick. The reported offers are SO bad that it defies reason to believe the same offers (at very worst) would be unavailable in the off-season if need be.
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You hope in the offseason that Melo changes his tune and is willing to go somewhere. Trading for that Clips package does nothing for us, IMO.
Totally agree. The ONLY advantage to dealing Melo now for a garbage deal is a higher draft pick. The reported offers are SO bad that it defies reason to believe the same offers (at very worst) would be unavailable in the off-season if need be.
and even with the garbage offers you are not even getting salary relief
Well, that's the hope, but it's no like Melo is saying he will waive his NTC in the summer.
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In comment 13368756 Keith said:
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You hope in the offseason that Melo changes his tune and is willing to go somewhere. Trading for that Clips package does nothing for us, IMO.
Totally agree. The ONLY advantage to dealing Melo now for a garbage deal is a higher draft pick. The reported offers are SO bad that it defies reason to believe the same offers (at very worst) would be unavailable in the off-season if need be.
and even with the garbage offers you are not even getting salary relief
Yup. Literally the ONLY upside is potentially getting a better pick. That's absolute best case with these Shumpert/Rivers type of headlined deals.
A Jennings trade should be a given. I don't care if it's a 2nd rounder, you take it for Jennings. Teams have called, obviously they are interested, it should be done for whatever you can get.
Rose is a little trickier because of his salary. Will be hard for teams to match up, but Minny obviously makes sense. I don't pull the trigger on Rubio, but anything else is added and its done.
KOQ, I'd have to get a first for him and not a GS first. A late teens/early 20's pick. He's not a guy who's salary needs to be cleared.
only way it happens is if boston strikes out on butler and come back to the knicks..
There's not much more to it than that.
Also, the "high first" for Rubio can't be anything more than negotiation speak. I wouldn't be too concerned. Every team in the league is going to shoot for the moon when dealing with the Knicks for their history of dumb moves. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.
mavs kept deron and bogut put of practice yesterday just in case
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lol that's what I'm saying. Unless they are somehow interested in a Lopez swap...really makes little sense
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is a stake in the team. Can they offer 50% of the Nets for Drummond? Otherwise, lol.
lol that's what I'm saying. Unless they are somehow interested in a Lopez swap...really makes little sense
you could argue lopez fits in detroit better than drummond does...
stan likes to run 1 guy in the post with 4 shooters, drummond really is not that guy in the post
I'd have to think Lavert and RHJ are on the table at a minimum.
- per woj
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
Minnesota's Ricky Rubio remains a significant target for the Knicks today, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Taj Gibson, Doug McDermott and especially Nikola Mirotic ... Chicago Bulls all in play today on Deadline Day according to league sources.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
Minnesota's Ricky Rubio remains a significant target for the Knicks today, league sources tell @TheVertical.
woj backtracking now, last night it was knicks have no chance at rubio and rose couldnt be moved..
Rose for Rubio + pick.
KOQ for two seconds.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
The Knicks, sources say, are pushing for an additional piece from Minnesota in the Rubio/DRose talks and that's been the holdup this week.
Rose for Rubio and a player/pick
Jennings for (2) 2nds
Kuz in a 3 way to Phoenix that brings back a 1st
add because of his versatility and defense. He's a good addition for playoff teams...exact reason why Knicks won't be in play for him
add because of his versatility and defense. He's a good addition for playoff teams...exact reason why Knicks won't be in play for him
Sure but why would any Knick fan advocate such a thing? He's a UFA and turning 32.
They have the Pelicans 2nd (but not their own) , no first next year
Link - ( New Window )
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Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
The Knicks, sources say, are pushing for an additional piece from Minnesota in the Rubio/DRose talks and that's been the holdup this week.
Shabazz? Tyus?
Was someone advocating for him? I just automatically assumed when it was revealed the Suns had interest in Kuz that phil would go all out for tucker.
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Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
The Knicks, sources say, are pushing for an additional piece from Minnesota in the Rubio/DRose talks and that's been the holdup this week.
Shabazz? Tyus?
It'll be Bjielca or whatever
Vujacic to Toronto
Tucker to Toronto
Sullinger and Toronto 1st to Knicks
Is there a burning need for someone who fires up contested 3s as soon as he touches the ball in the half court?
Same. He's an excellent knockdown shooter and defender who is on an expiring deal
"2 years ago via EuroHoops.net
Nemanja Bjelica is ready to make the jump to the NBA, Minessota has his rights, but the New York Knicks are pursuing him and hope to get him via a sign and trade deal. According to Eurohoops sources, the Euroleague MVP has already decided to continue his career in the NBA. He has to sign his new contract until the 10th of July, the date his opt out clause in the contract with Fenerbahce/ Ulker expires. Bjelica has been in contact for a long time with the Timberwolves, however now the Knicks entered the picture."
Darren Wolfson ✔ @DWolfsonKSTP
Text from NBA scout at Serbia-Spain: "(Bjelica) flat-out stud. Better than Mirotic. Knows how to play. Has a feel one can't teach." #twolves
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The #Knicks are shopping Kyle O'Quinn but it's unclear if they can get equal value back, league sources confirm.
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Ian Begley@IanBegley
NYK, like every other team, seeking a 1st-round pick; talked to one team about O'Quinn/Jennings package
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The T-Wolves have continued to shop Ricky Rubio to non-Knicks teams too, even as they've continued to talk with NY about a Derrick Rose deal
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The T-Wolves have continued to shop Ricky Rubio to non-Knicks teams too, even as they've continued to talk with NY about a Derrick Rose deal
Oh go fuck yourself, Diane
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Ex-#Twolves exec., curious on Rubio, via text: "If they move him, hope he ends up in a good spot. Good guy, good player, and wants to win."
If Horny played him the 28 mpg he deserved I don't think this would be a problem. Instead I can see a bunch of teams being like "if he's so good why is he getting 10-15 minutes a game off the bench on a team that struggles on D" and I can't think of a logical reason why.
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All these teams looking to trade for a first-round pick, but 7 of the final 9 picks (22 thru 30) in the first round have already been traded
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1/ The Wolves are operating w/priority of pushing for playoffs. So that is coloring any trade talks they have.
Now I don't care for jackals approac with tweets, medi, etc but from a player stand point and potential for growth as a team. We are in pretty decen shape
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hope we don't just give away KOQ for a late first. I really think he can play. It would have to be a pretty decent pick imo.
If Horny played him the 28 mpg he deserved I don't think this would be a problem. Instead I can see a bunch of teams being like "if he's so good why is he getting 10-15 minutes a game off the bench on a team that struggles on D" and I can't think of a logical reason why.
Simple -- Then hang up the phone. He has value to the Knicks. Would love to get another first, but no pouting from me if 3pm comes and goes and KOQ is still here.
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1/ The Wolves are operating w/priority of pushing for playoffs. So that is coloring any trade talks they have.
What? They are closer to the Lakers than they are to the 8 seed. It would be semi bold for even the Pelicans to expect a playoff seed, Minnesota has no business thinking playoffs. Get another top pick and then decide your playoff hopes.
Who are they hoping to get? It seems like Rubio is merely a contract dump for them.
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If they don't get anything there, I think they will trade Rubio/Bjelica for Rose.
Who are they hoping to get? It seems like Rubio is merely a contract dump for them.
Yeah, plus they've been shopping that package for a week and there hasn't been any rumored interest. That tells me that they will prob come back to the Knicks.
I unfollowed that asshole a while ago. Reading his tweets only pissed me off. The guy is a clown.
Still waiting for the BKN pick he said KOQ was going to get us. And the finals appearannce KOQ would lead Boston to
At a certain point they likely would just take whatever sweetener they realistically can get. Pretty clearly they aren't expected to get a first in the deal, I'd probably take the 2nd over Bjelica but if the scouts liked him that much in 2015 it makes some sense.
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Ex-#Twolves exec., curious on Rubio, via text: "If they move him, hope he ends up in a good spot. Good guy, good player, and wants to win."
We are the definition of a bad spot.
Also re KOQ: Im not sure he's had a bigger defender here than me going back to last season. But his foul rate is 5.1 per 36 minutes. He cant be a 28 minute player because he cant be counted on to be available that much. Literally, there have only been 10 seasons of guys playing 28 mpg, 40+ games, and averaging 7+ PF/100 possessions (KOQ's rate). Half the guys who did that were 22 or younger (ie developing players) See link.
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah, but I'm sure he can get better tapas in NYC than Minneapolis, so he comes out ahead anyway.
You mean like Hornacek?
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already dreading the reports of Rubio working on his shooting with some great shooting coach and how his new shot looks great and the ensuing BBI arguments about it.
You mean like Hornacek?
"Rubio has worked tireless hours with Hornacek breaking down and rebuilding his shot..." that works lol
It's the basketball version of "Pablo Sandoval arrived for training camp in the best shape of his life after a strenuous workout routine over the winter"
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already dreading the reports of Rubio working on his shooting with some great shooting coach and how his new shot looks great and the ensuing BBI arguments about it.
It's the basketball version of "Pablo Sandoval arrived for training camp in the best shape of his life after a strenuous workout routine over the winter"
lol. I'm sure someone can come up with an example of a bad shooter becoming solid 6-7 years into an NBA career but it's gotta be beyond unusual. Yeah, if Rubio could shoot he'd be a star. That was the dream when he was drafted. He was a phenom in Europe. I've read Rubio was the overall "best" Euro teenager maybe ever until this Doncic kid came along.
Zach LaVine
Ricky Rubio
Nikola Pekovic (Career could be over but take him for $$ purposes)
T Wolves get:
D Rose
Courtney Lee
Kyle O'Quinn
Link - ( New Window )
LaVine
Melo
Porzingis
Hermangomez or Noah
Plus whatever we pick up in this draft which should be a high pick.
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to understand why people on the previous thread advocated a deal involving Kuz and Tucker? Why would we want Tucker?
Was someone advocating for him? I just automatically assumed when it was revealed the Suns had interest in Kuz that phil would go all out for tucker.
Or maybe Knight?
Zach LaVine
Ricky Rubio
Nikola Pekovic (Career could be over but take him for $$ purposes)
T Wolves get:
D Rose
Courtney Lee
Kyle O'Quinn Link - ( New Window )
In a heartbeat but not happening. I also think Pekovic has to remain on the same team for his contract to be wiped away for injury.
Is Brandon Knight that bad now? Suns willing to give him away for nothing- expirings.
In a text message to the Daily News, Oakley would only say that he will be inside Quicken Loans Arena for the game.
Sources: Boston, Indy had preliminary talk on Paul George, but there won't be real dialogue until/unless C's introduce Nets pick into deal.
This is from Rubio in an interview with Britt Robson:
"But of course in the first quarter I am more focused and I have fresh legs. Usually players like to get easy in the game and I realized as a point guard for a young team as we were, coming off a bad start, and I wanted to lead by example, like I said, and so to be aggressive from the beginning trying to do my own thing and get some shots up in the beginning."
Wonder if he gets better if you really manage his minutes. 26 minutes of Rubio shooting over 40% would be good. Also, note that his 2P% is 44.5% this season. Possibly an anomaly tho and worse than ever from 3.
Link - ( New Window )
Sources: Boston, Indy had preliminary talk on Paul George, but there won't be real dialogue until/unless C's introduce Nets pick into deal.
I would love nothing more than the Nets pick turn out to be 4th overall this year and Nets improve next year and make the pick fringe lottery. Jaylen Brown turns out to be a bust, 2017/2018 pick don't produce any franchise player and the Celtics are stuck paying Isiah Thomas the super max as a middling playoff team.
Update on Boston, Indy: Boston hasn't met Indiana's asking price on Paul George, but Nets pick has entered conversation now, sources say.
Yes.
Ainge has gotten so fat ripping off teams that he's unable to negotiate on a fair plane. It's pretty laughable that he's pursuing George without putting the Nets pick(s) on the table. WTF is he offering? Brown?
I think George is slightly better but his contract makes it tricky. I'd rather trade Brown and the 2018 pick or some other combo outside the 2017 pick but ultimately I would do it. Both are superstar top 10/15 players that play incredibly well on both ends. The draft is such a crapshoot.
Philadelphia is in advanced talks to send Nerlens Noel to the Dallas Mavericks, league sources tell @TheVertical.
25.5 PER, ORtg of 123
Philadelphia is sending Nerlens Noel to Dallas for Justin Anderson and a first-round draft pick, league sources tell @TheVertical.
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Philadelphia is sending Nerlens Noel to Dallas for Justin Anderson and a first-round draft pick, league sources tell @TheVertical.
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Andrew Bogut and Justin Anderson and conditional first-round pick will be traded from Dallas to Philadelphia for Nerlens Noel, sources say
Dallas center Andrew Bogut will go to the 76ers in the Noel trade too, league source tells @TheVertical.
Trade Jennings/ KOQ for a 1st.
Trade Rose for Rubio or dump him somewhere. If no trade- buy him out.
One last offer to Boston for Melo- see if they'll take him on the cheap.
What will happen-
No trades and the above players all play out the year. Knicks finish the season on a 5 game winning streak that moves them into 13th pick of the draft. Phil Jackson says he's proud of how the team finished and what they are building.
Philadelphia is in advanced talks to send Nerlens Noel to the Dallas Mavericks, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Anderson and/or picks I'd have to think. Unlikely, Curry or Ferrell with picks. Really hope the Mavs dont hand Philly another lottery pick. That would be bonkers. I also really worry about them sending a declining protection #1. Mavs strike me as a good candidate to bottom out post-Dirk.
Dont agree. Would like to see what the pick is of course. But I think it makes a lot of sense to surround Simmons and Embiid with 3 & D guys at the 1-2-3. Anderson is a nice piece. I'd love him in NY.
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The Sixers literally gave away Noel for nothing.
Dont agree. Would like to see what the pick is of course. But I think it makes a lot of sense to surround Simmons and Embiid with 3 & D guys at the 1-2-3. Anderson is a nice piece. I'd love him in NY.
It's top 18 protected which means 1. It's not an ultra high pick 2. They likely won't be seeing it for a while because the Mavs suck. That's a giveaway.
Whats the point of that trade for the Sixers? Are they ever going to try to start winning on the court? They keep kicking the can down the road. Maybe they didn't want to pay him this summer but I don't get it. I'm not a huge fan of Noel but good trade for Dallas.
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In comment 13369153 DanMetroMan said:
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The Sixers literally gave away Noel for nothing.
Dont agree. Would like to see what the pick is of course. But I think it makes a lot of sense to surround Simmons and Embiid with 3 & D guys at the 1-2-3. Anderson is a nice piece. I'd love him in NY.
It's top 18 protected which means 1. It's not an ultra high pick 2. They likely won't be seeing it for a while because the Mavs suck. That's a giveaway.
Not a great return but I disagree with the give away for nothing angle. I guess I just like Anderson's potential as a 3 & D guy.
I dont think this is Philly kicking the can down the road. New GM. I think they like Anderson and hated the idea of maxing Noel this summer. He is obviously getting a massive offer.
It would have to be a projection on Anderson. I cant say I've seen him much. But the 3 & D guys often take a bit of time.
I would have thought so but he was know to be available forever. So either Philly loves Anderson or the offers werent very good. It's notable that the contending teams have so little to offer, and Im reasonably sure that Philly had zero interest in getting back a 4 or 5. For non-contending teams, what you're really acquiring is a tryout period and the right to match the massive contract Noel is gonna get. And he's a risk. People dont like his attitude, and he hasnt been a model of health. But he can be a great defensive center and a very good PnR big I think.
Do the Sixers really need all these firsts? I mean really, there has to be a limit
So seems clear that Philly is looking for 3 and Ds.
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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Boston, Indy had preliminary talk on Paul George, but there won't be real dialogue until/unless C's introduce Nets pick into deal.
I would love nothing more than the Nets pick turn out to be 4th overall this year and Nets improve next year and make the pick fringe lottery. Jaylen Brown turns out to be a bust, 2017/2018 pick don't produce any franchise player and the Celtics are stuck paying Isiah Thomas the super max as a middling playoff team.
LOL ... wow you are a hater ... LOL
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Murray is reporting the Pacers have offered their first and Aaron Brooks for Okafor.
Do the Sixers really need all these firsts? I mean really, there has to be a limit
I expect a number of teams are going to hit the reset button. Philly can turn #1s into vets very easily.
Still waiting to see what Phil does and I hope it doesn't end with Stephon Marbury in Brooklyn asking people if they saw with Isaiah just pulled off.
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In comment 13369195 DanMetroMan said:
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Murray is reporting the Pacers have offered their first and Aaron Brooks for Okafor.
Do the Sixers really need all these firsts? I mean really, there has to be a limit
I expect a number of teams are going to hit the reset button. Philly can turn #1s into vets very easily.
Melo?? Easy drive from Manhattan....I kid I kid
I think you are looking at the trade the wrong way from Philly's point of view. They are accumulating 1st round picks NOT for immediate use- or even their own use.
I believe that the intent is to clear the roster of the extra bigs and to gather up assets to use in trades next year as the talent returns fully healthy. Embiid is the real deal as a C. Saric is emerging as a stretch 4. Simmons will likely be a ball-handling 2/3. What they really need next is a top PG and a D&3 SG.
The Sixers can pick up a high end G in this year's draft- and then use those picks to make a trade for a top SG. I think that is why they accepted the restrictions on the Mavs pick- they don't want to use it now- it is an asset for later.
With the cap space the Sixers save, they can then fill in their backup spots with decent vets and be a strong team in 2 years.
Yeah I was surprised. Anderson might be perfect for PHI but what a pickup for dallas.
worth a lottery pick, even in this draft.
Because that's usually what happens aside from the amazing Alexey Shved.
It's interesting that brogdon comes into the league and is raining 3s but Anderson has struggled. if Anderson perfects his 3 pointer he is a very, very good player.
The Knicks and Timberwolves remain engaged in trade talks toward a deal headlined by Derrick Rose and Ricky Rubio, league sources tell ESPN.
They are really putting a lot of eggs in the Embiid will be healthy basket. I would have re-signed Noel and traded Okafor. Plausible to me that Noel told them that he really wanted out.
The Knicks and Timberwolves remain engaged in trade talks toward a deal headlined by Derrick Rose and Ricky Rubio, league sources tell ESPN.
These tweets are so ridiculous. Some are so vague you know they are just complete bullshit. " Team X is open to moving Player X for high draft picks and multiple assets."
Peter VecseyVerified account
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Cavs owner Dan Gilbert has invited Charles Oakley to sit two rows behind him for tonight's Knicks game...
Peter VecseyVerified account
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Cavs owner Dan Gilbert has invited Charles Oakley to sit two rows behind him for tonight's Knicks game...
Oakley really just wants to kepp making this worse and worseand gilbert is a piece of shit for egging it on
Peter VecseyVerified account
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Cavs owner Dan Gilbert has invited Charles Oakley to sit two rows behind him for tonight's Knicks game...
LeBron's 'friendship' can only get him within 2 rows of Gilbert? ;-)
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we won't be seeing a Knicks/Cavs deal? lol
Peter VecseyVerified account
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Cavs owner Dan Gilbert has invited Charles Oakley to sit two rows behind him for tonight's Knicks game...
Oakley really just wants to kepp making this worse and worseand gilbert is a piece of shit for egging it on
Eh, Gilbert's likely doing it as a favor for LeBron. Though there's also a chance that the Knicks dysfunction makes it slightly more likely Melo forces a trade elsewhere.
As we hit air on @NBATV, Knicks and Wolves still talking Rose-Rubio, but still a ways to go, with numerous names in mix, between the teams.
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Hearing Beverley isn't going anywhere so Knicks not adding the defensive PG they chased in summer of 2015.
The additional pieces. #Knicks want more #twolves don't want to give up to much. It's negotiations.
Put aside your valuation of Noel. Anderson and 2 #2s is not nothing. It's 3 pieces I'd want on the Knicks. Those #2s could turn into gold.
Minnesota remains engaged with several teams on a Ricky Rubio trade, including New York, league sources tell @TheVertical.
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If the Mavs pick isn't 19-30, it becomes a 2017 2nd and 2018 2nd. So it's very possible/likely the deal is Anderson + 2 2nd round picks for Noel.
Put aside your valuation of Noel. Anderson and 2 #2s is not nothing. It's 3 pieces I'd want on the Knicks. Those #2s could turn into gold.
People on here are expecting 2nd's for guys like Jennings so I'm not too impressed with a guy who is a career 29% 3 point shooter and 2 2nd round picks spread over 2 drafts. It seems like any quasi-decent player can bring back a 2 if you deal them at the right time.
Problem for the Cavs is picks lose value the longer you have to wait for them. A 2017 1st is worth more than a 2021 1st.
I'd take him over Willy. And I'm probably higher on Willy than anyone on here.
He's pretty fucking good. I'd take Noel over Drummond.
everyone wants a first in this years draft
Yup, great trade for the rebuilding Mavs
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NYK & Clippers have had recent talks about SG Courtney Lee, sources tell Ramona Shelburne and I. http://www.
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NYK & Clippers have had recent talks about SG Courtney Lee, sources tell Ramona Shelburne and I. http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0626483726108334742-4
What could LAC give for lee except Austin rivers?
Peter VecseyVerified account
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Cavs owner Dan Gilbert has invited Charles Oakley to sit two rows behind him for tonight's Knicks game...
The asshole who wrote "The Letter" actually has the balls to troll another owner? What a shitstain.
A little weird to me since there arent great UFAs and with the rising cap, teams have room and fewer tax concerns.
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In comment 13369311 DanMetroMan said:
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If the Mavs pick isn't 19-30, it becomes a 2017 2nd and 2018 2nd. So it's very possible/likely the deal is Anderson + 2 2nd round picks for Noel.
Put aside your valuation of Noel. Anderson and 2 #2s is not nothing. It's 3 pieces I'd want on the Knicks. Those #2s could turn into gold.
People on here are expecting 2nd's for guys like Jennings so I'm not too impressed with a guy who is a career 29% 3 point shooter and 2 2nd round picks spread over 2 drafts. It seems like any quasi-decent player can bring back a 2 if you deal them at the right time.
Well it's like Jae Crowder again IMo. People are shitting on phil for not taking him in the Chandler deal but he never crossed 34% shooting until this year. He was shooting around 31% in dallas up to that point. I think Anderson is 100% that type of player. Do I think Philly lost that trade at this moment? Yes. Do I think they got peanuts for him? No. Anderson is playing behind Wesley Matthews and Harrison Barnes so there's reason why he's not getting more PT. He's more than just a 3 point shooter who can't shoot just yet at the NBA level. If he becomes even a league average 3 point shooter Philly has their starting SG spot set for the next 10 years.
Desperate. He lacks the strength to play the 4 (maybe even the 3).
China league can trade with the NBA now?
he got it from a tweet saying roberson was seen hugging teammates and looked like he was saying good bye
I'm all for moving Lee but for this? No thanks.
you dont know what has been sent to league office and what is agreed to...for all we know knicks have 3 trades lined up and just waiting to send to league office..
nba allows trades to be processed after 3 as long as teams call in before 3 to let league know
Can all but guarantee it's not happening then.
I was hoping when dallas was calling for KOQ they'd put Anderson on the table. But clearly they didn't have to give up that much more to get Noel.
Is he working on his jumper for when he comes to NY?
My guess as of now is that we will not be making any moves today.
You have to think if they were close they would hold him out. Also interesting timing of practice with Thibs being the head coach and GM. Wonder how that works. Stop practice to ask Thibs for final say?
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Ian Begley@IanBegley 37s37 seconds ago
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One holdup in the Rose talks: NYK hadn't budged on their insistence that a 2nd piece to be added:
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Ian Begley@IanBegley 37s37 seconds ago
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One holdup in the Rose talks: NYK hadn't budged on their insistence that a 2nd piece to be added:
They have another 57 minutes not to budge, then Rose better be gone in 58 minutes.
He steals stuff from other people so sometimes he's "right" without it being because of him. He's a fake moron overall. Well aware.
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Ian Begley@IanBegley 37s37 seconds ago
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One holdup in the Rose talks: NYK hadn't budged on their insistence that a 2nd piece to be added:
Really?
The incompetence of this organization is amazing. Can someone send the Jackson the link for the trade machine.
Jonathan GivonyVerified account@DraftExpress 4m4 minutes ago
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The extremely low demand/yield for quality NBA big men on the trade market is a bad sign for the many big men prospects in the 2017 draft.
Ty Lawson? Darren collision?
Which is why Teodosic is intriguing
This is why getting Rubio makes sense. And Phil's dumbass is holding out for a Euro or pick. He's lucky he a found a taker for Rose and actually getting some value in return.
Frank IsolaVerified account@FisolaNYDN 17s17 seconds ago
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The deal would include Andre Roberson and Cam Payne.
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Frank IsolaVerified account@FisolaNYDN 2m2 minutes ago
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The Dougie McBuckets trade to OKC is getting closer, according to a league source.
Jonathan GivonyVerified account@DraftExpress 4m4 minutes ago
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The extremely low demand/yield for quality NBA big men on the trade market is a bad sign for the many big men prospects in the 2017 draft.
I guess interesting in the context of the draft, but no one here is terribly surprised. Teams arent playing two traditional bigs anymore. You play one big, and one stretch 4, unless you're lucky enough to have a good outside shooting big who can defend stretch 4s.
If you're a big, you better shoot 3s or protect the rim. The days of 10-10 power forwards seem over for now.
By Melo, do you mean Ewing? Unless you consider Starbury a good PG.
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Denver today made a "monster" offer to Indiana for Paul George, league sources tell @ChrisBHaynes and me, but the talks gained no traction.
Its very hard to have a PG who is excellent with Melo as the number 1 option.
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The Oklahoma City Thunder have had talks with the Chicago Bulls on Doug McDermott and Taj Gibson. (Via The Vertical)
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Denver today made a "monster" offer to Indiana for Paul George, league sources tell @ChrisBHaynes and me, but the talks gained no traction.
Indiana really didn't want Emmanuel Mudiay???
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Final details on what OKC sends are being sorted, but Taj Gibson & Doug McDermott are about to become members of the Oklahoma City Thunder.
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.
Who on that list was Melo holding back?
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Final details on what OKC sends are being sorted, but Taj Gibson & Doug McDermott are about to become members of the Oklahoma City Thunder.
Future 1st rounds better be included.
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.
Who on that list was Melo holding back?
Oh boy. I wouldn't bring that Up about rose with dep unless you have a few hours on your hand.
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.
Who on that list was Melo holding back?
The problem is that every PG's numbers always decrease with melo on the team. Going back to his days in Denv.er I believe only 1 year did a PG exceded his career assist totals with Melo on the team, and that was andre miller.
Melo needs the ball to score. He isolates guy and use to either kill them with the jumper, take them of the dribble, or pull up. No matter the case, the ball usually stopped with him.
Payne the future PG for the Bulls? Could be ok, could be very bad.
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Adam JosephVerified account
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Final details on what OKC sends are being sorted, but Taj Gibson & Doug McDermott are about to become members of the Oklahoma City Thunder.
Future 1st rounds better be included.
If I were you I'd be rooting for Payne instead
If I were you I'd be rooting for Payne instead
A risk I could live with. I am not enamored with him, however extended playing time could be beneficial.
Sources: Philadelphia searching for defensive-minded guards to play with Ben Simmons. One target: Boston's Avery Bradley. No traction.
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.
Who on that list was Melo holding back?
Knicks had a backcourt of Toney Douglas and Landry Fields. Doesn't get much worse than that.
Sources: Philadelphia searching for defensive-minded guards to play with Ben Simmons. One target: Boston's Avery Bradley. No traction.
Lee for Bayless and Okafor?
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I think it's the opposite. He hasn't had a good point guard to faciliate an offense and so he has had an unnecessary burden upon himself to carry the offense.
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.
Who on that list was Melo holding back?
The problem is that every PG's numbers always decrease with melo on the team. Going back to his days in Denv.er I believe only 1 year did a PG exceded his career assist totals with Melo on the team, and that was andre miller.
Melo needs the ball to score. He isolates guy and use to either kill them with the jumper, take them of the dribble, or pull up. No matter the case, the ball usually stopped with him.
Ray Felton averaged 9 assists a game in 2011. Chauncey Billups played very well with Melo in Denver and NY.
Still negotiating as we speak.
No wonder we can't move Melo - we have to move Heaven and Earth just to trade a damn expiring contract.
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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA 3m3 minutes ago
Sources: Philadelphia searching for defensive-minded guards to play with Ben Simmons. One target: Boston's Avery Bradley. No traction.
Lee for Bayless and Okafor?
according to jsports lee has been told he is safe
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Unloading McDaniels to the Nets frees $3M in cap space to use on the buyout market for Houston.
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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA 1m1 minute ago
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Houston has traded K.J. McDaniels to the Brooklyn Nets, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Ray Felton averaged 9 assists a game in 2011. Chauncey Billups played very well with Melo in Denver and NY.
Felton was part of the trade to get Melo to the Knicks. he never played with him. Billups numbers took a hit from his Detroit days as well.
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NBA officials contend Rubio-Rose trade rumors are alive and well. Both would be nice fits for their new teams. #NBATradeDeadline .
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NBA officials contend Rubio-Rose trade rumors are alive and well. Both would be nice fits for their new teams. #NBATradeDeadline .
500 tweets from 50 different people over the past couple of days saying the exact same thing. Twitter sucks.
You're right. But I was referring to the year where Felton averaged 9 assists per game for the Knicks. Melo wasnt on that team yet.
Was referring to the 9 assists per game in 2010-2011..... Felton didnt play with Melo that year. Sorry fo rthe confusion.
Sources: Philadelphia searching for defensive-minded guards to play with Ben Simmons. One target: Boston's Avery Bradley. No traction.
I dont want to sound like Kramer, but this is my idea for them. Play Simmons at the 4, but the 1-2-3 should all be defenders/shooters. Your 1 could be a PG without PG skills. But importantly, dont end up with a 2nd non-shooter.
@sam_amick
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On that front, I'm told Pacers' Larry Bird is still trying to get Paul George help as deadline nears: talking with Kings about Arron Afflalo
Minnesota WANTS Rose or to be rid of Rubio. Knicks I think are more indifferent.
@sam_amick
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On that front, I'm told Pacers' Larry Bird is still trying to get Paul George help as deadline nears: talking with Kings about Arron Afflalo
Ok, but what is he doing to get George help?
That's a nice haul for the Pacers. If I'm Larry Bird, I would have to take that.
For now, New York and Minnesota talks for a Derrick Rose trade have stalled significantly, league sources tell @TheVertical.
His loss. If LA acquired George for nothing right now I don't think they crack 35 wins next year.
You can't fuck this up.
@ShamsCharania
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For now, New York and Minnesota talks for a Derrick Rose trade have stalled significantly, league sources tell @TheVertical.
@APkrawczynski
Knicks have definitely asked for Bjelica as well during talks with Minnesota. Non-starter for Thibs, Wolves.
Felton got fat and out of shape as he got older. He had positive numbers in Charlotte and the Knicks the first go around, then dipped in Portland, came back up in NY (with Melo) and now stink again. It's why he's an afterthought in the league right now and has been since he left the Knicks.
Even that is playing semantics. Felton hasn't accomplished anything in the league beyond All-rookie 2nd-team. If that's the zenith of point guard success Melo had in NY, the point still stands.
@vgoodwill
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Think Bulls/OKC will be a bigger deal than McDermott/Payne. OKC not giving up Sabonis. Taj and McDermott both in play
Sources: OKC and Chicago are nearing agreement on a trade to send package centered on Cameron Payne for Doug McDermott and Taj Gibson.
Sources: OKC and Chicago are nearing agreement on a trade to send package centered on Cameron Payne for Doug McDermott and Taj Gibson.
Shams CharaniaVerified account@ShamsCharania
OKC sending Joffrey Lauvergne and Anthony Morrow, w/ CHI sending '18 second-round pick with McDermott and Gibson, sources tell @TheVertical.
Milwaukee is finalzing a deal to send Roy Hibbert to the Denver Nuggets, league sources tell @TheVertical.
[Charania] OKC sending Joffrey Lauvergne and Anthony Morrow, w/ CHI sending '18 second-round pick with McDermott and Gibson, sources tell @TheVertical.
That's a nice haul for the Pacers. If I'm Larry Bird, I would have to take that.
What free agents are even projected to be out there? They don't need to spend to try to fake a long term answer out of a middling free agent.
Indiana has passed on trade offers for Paul George and All-Star forward will remain with the Pacers, league sources tell @TheVertical.
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A half hour ago, MIN had been unwilling to give up an additional asset in talks with NYK on a Rose trade, per source. Who blinks first here?
He'll be right on it as soon as he's done consulting the I Ching.
Houston has traded guard Tyler Ennis to the Lakers, league source tells @TheVertical.
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haven't had a good point guard since Carmelo has been here. Why start next season?
Its very hard to have a PG who is excellent with Melo as the number 1 option.
I'm sorry dep but that's nonsense.
As of now (2:52 EDT), no deal between Knicks and Wolves for Rose/Rubio.
One NBA team exec said of what he's hearing about Knicks in talks at deadline: "Silence."
Do you want Collison or Teague? Going to have to overpay them too. Hard pass from me.
you cant blame him for asking for another asset, if no one wants to deal with him kind of hard to make trades
@WojVerticalNBA
The Phoenix Suns are trading PJ Tucker to the Toronto Raptors, league source tells @TheVertical.
Wait it out. If we are stuck with Rose so be it. At least he's off the books after the year. Rubio would be interesting but he's on the books for 2 more years. I do want him here though.
Where did Shams come from? Really young guy.
Now we (continue to) wait.
No moves for Knicks. They're done. Rubio does have injury history.
Jennings is a JAG at this point. Perhaps no one wanted him?
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you cant blame him for asking for another asset, if no one wants to deal with him kind of hard to make trades
Not even upset about rose. Look I get your take on phil, and yes he's been better than past GMs but what has he done at a high level? He's a replacement level GM. That's fine. The Knicks have their picks. Fantastic.now let's get a better GM.
Lol Boston tried to get me son..
@WojVerticalNBA
The Phoenix Suns are trading PJ Tucker to the Toronto Raptors, league source tells @TheVertical.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account@WojVerticalNBA
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Sources: Toronto is sending Jared Sullinger and two future second-round picks to Phoenix for PJ Tucker.
Wait it out. If we are stuck with Rose so be it. At least he's off the books after the year. Rubio would be interesting but he's on the books for 2 more years. I do want him here though.
If the reports are true and you could have traded Rose for Rubio straight up...then this is a massive fail. Rubio is more valuable and a better fit. Rose is expiring so he's now gone. You have to maximize your assets and Phil is terrible at doing that.
anyone who trades an expiring for a longer deal 9 tomes out of ten gets another asset
I was infinitely less worried about the "returns" than I was interested in turning the page to the future and tanking the shit out of the rest of the season.
Lol Boston tried to get me son..
in 2011????
lol and if he traded rose for rubio straight up you would be screaming and yelling he added salary to the payroll...
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you guys killed Knicks GMs for blinking or being the GM to cave first. Phil isn't caving and you're still killing the Knicks GM.
Wait it out. If we are stuck with Rose so be it. At least he's off the books after the year. Rubio would be interesting but he's on the books for 2 more years. I do want him here though.
If the reports are true and you could have traded Rose for Rubio straight up...then this is a massive fail. Rubio is more valuable and a better fit. Rose is expiring so he's now gone. You have to maximize your assets and Phil is terrible at doing that.
It's a massive fail? Really? When did Rubio turn into John Stockton? I wanted the guy but he isn't elite or close to it based on numbers. And he's making a lot of money for an additional two years. If the Knicks signed Rubio last offseason for 3 years at close to max people here would have shit sideways and killed Jackson. Now all of a sudden the Knicks are a joke..
And you don't know for sure if the Wolves wanted more than Rose. Save me the twitter rumor horse shit. I want facts.
At least with rose, if you dont want him at the end of the year, he is gone, and his contract is gone. rubio has never made a NBA team good in his career, and wouldnt do so with the Knicks. He has been on the market for over a year now, and no one wants him. That may be true with Rose as well.... but you arent missing on a key piece. Taking on a contract at a position where your looking to improve upon instead of letting a guy walk at the end of the year makes no sense.
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It's KP and this draft or bust. Some decent PG who may help a bit isn't going to define the Knicks when they matter again. I can promise you that.
how are they headed nowhere?
they have 2 young pieces, their first round pick this year and 2 2nd round picks, cap flexibility..
really wouldnt aay nowhere
Again, Knicks had eye on Bjelica, too. If T'Wolves really want Rose, they can get him as free agent this summer. And still trade Rubio.
It's KP and this draft or bust. Some decent PG who may help a bit isn't going to define the Knicks when they matter again. I can promise you that.
I think Monk is going to drop to the Knicks. he has stagnated lately whetherby fatigue or defenses figuring him out.
If he is drafted by the Knicks, he should be the PG instantly. Take some lumps the first few years.
So will I to see them get their asses kicked! Let the tanking begin!!
Again, Knicks had eye on Bjelica, too. If T'Wolves really want Rose, they can get him as free agent this summer. And still trade Rubio.
Bingo. Rose being a free agent hurt his value instead of increasing it this year.
I'm more disappointed we couldn't pick up an extra pick or two for OQuinn or Jennings
It's KP and this draft or bust. Some decent PG who may help a bit isn't going to define the Knicks when they matter again. I can promise you that.
Thats fair enough. Don't really care about Rubio or Rose. I just don't trust this organization enough to not give Rose $20M a year in this offseason. Only real reason I was rooting for the trade.
The guy has been a failure and is a joke. Throw that big money at a top proven GM, not a senial old man.
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Jeff ZillgittVerified account@JeffZillgitt
Again, Knicks had eye on Bjelica, too. If T'Wolves really want Rose, they can get him as free agent this summer. And still trade Rubio.
Bingo. Rose being a free agent hurt his value instead of increasing it this year.
But in the past teams were able to secure picks to not even let a player reach FA so they have the right to extend and lock in a player. Thinking about Wallace and Melo type trades.
I'm more disappointed we couldn't pick up an extra pick or two for OQuinn or Jennings
nobody was giving up a first after the pelicans got cousins for free...
look at noel he got traded basically for 2 2nd roudn pickz
I think I'd prefer the Frenchie PG to Monk and Fox. Love his defensive potential, 7' wingspan.
The guy has been a failure and is a joke. Throw that big money at a top proven GM, not a senial old man.
The crazy thing is that the big plus he gets on drafting KP, he basically still tried to trade up to get Russell and Okafor off a season where he predicted they would go the playoffs. He has been pretty horrible.
The guy has been a failure and is a joke. Throw that big money at a top proven GM, not a senial old man.
besides noah what has he done that hurts the future? if anything he has made the future better
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I love how all the supporters of Phil point to him not trading future picks. Some baseline. Not exactly the mark of a great GM.
The guy has been a failure and is a joke. Throw that big money at a top proven GM, not a senial old man.
The crazy thing is that the big plus he gets on drafting KP, he basically still tried to trade up to get Russell and Okafor off a season where he predicted they would go the playoffs. He has been pretty horrible.
when did he try to trade up?
and what is wrong with thinking you are going to make the playoffs, melo gets hurt and shifting the ciurse and tanking? isnt that a good thing he had the forsight to change directions?
they actually gained an asset with the 2nd round pick
So instead we just let an asset walk out the door for nothing.
Or "cap space" when everyone is in agreement that the team doesn't need to be adding expensive long term deals.
Even if it was one for one...you're taking on more salary and minny is getting off scott free. When the Knicks tried to trade that 3 year big contract in year's past did any other team bite or bail us out? Fuck no. Now you're killing the Knicks for being patient?
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that the Knicks are headed nowhere.
how are they headed nowhere?
they have 2 young pieces, their first round pick this year and 2 2nd round picks, cap flexibility..
really wouldnt aay nowhere
Cap flexibility? They have 65 million tied up between Melo/ Noah/ Lee/ Thomas for the next 3 seasons ( 2 for Melo).
In the 2019/2020 season when KP will be in his 5th season and up for a big payday, they have 40 million committed to Lee/ Noah/ Thomas. Those guys are going to be in their mid 30s and most likely not any good. It's poor planning from Phil.
He should have done a full rebuild around KP this past offseason. Instead he made them just good enough to pick outside the top 5.
So instead we just let an asset walk out the door for nothing.
Or "cap space" when everyone is in agreement that the team doesn't need to be adding expensive long term deals.
how do you know twolves were not asking for more?
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In comment 13369670 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
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that the Knicks are headed nowhere.
how are they headed nowhere?
they have 2 young pieces, their first round pick this year and 2 2nd round picks, cap flexibility..
really wouldnt aay nowhere
Cap flexibility? They have 65 million tied up between Melo/ Noah/ Lee/ Thomas for the next 3 seasons ( 2 for Melo).
In the 2019/2020 season when KP will be in his 5th season and up for a big payday, they have 40 million committed to Lee/ Noah/ Thomas. Those guys are going to be in their mid 30s and most likely not any good. It's poor planning from Phil.
He should have done a full rebuild around KP this past offseason. Instead he made them just good enough to pick outside the top 5.
and the cap will be around 110 million..
by 2019 it maybe 130...
they are losing and have young pieces in place with a top pick coming..
go look at what the knicks had 3 years agao compared to now and tell me they are not in a better position..
besides lee noah and melo their oldest player is going to be kuz at 27 and he makes 3 million...
hernangomez makes 1 million a year..
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In comment 13369692 TyreeHelmet said:
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I love how all the supporters of Phil point to him not trading future picks. Some baseline. Not exactly the mark of a great GM.
The guy has been a failure and is a joke. Throw that big money at a top proven GM, not a senial old man.
The crazy thing is that the big plus he gets on drafting KP, he basically still tried to trade up to get Russell and Okafor off a season where he predicted they would go the playoffs. He has been pretty horrible.
when did he try to trade up?
and what is wrong with thinking you are going to make the playoffs, melo gets hurt and shifting the ciurse and tanking? isnt that a good thing he had the forsight to change directions?
Prior the draft. Philly and NY media were all over this topic.
And as far as foresight goes... I'm not sure he had much of a choice but watch his team flame out. It's not he making these moves to land a top lottery pick. Even his coach said they were trying to win games but just can't get wins. Most of the guys he talked about developing aren't even on the team with the exception of Thomas. So...
and i dont remember reading once he tried to trade up, i remember seeing people say he wanted to trade down or was in love with winslow
Well said
So there you go. Assuming that's true, can't blame Phil for passing. Rubio isn't worth adding more pieces to the deal.
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Wolves turn down Rose for Rubio straight up at the deadline
So there you go. Assuming that's true, can't blame Phil for passing. Rubio isn't worth adding more pieces to the deal.
yeah basically said at the last minute phil went back and say do you want to go straight up and timberwolves said no
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You had a team interested and couldn't finish because you expected too much of a return.
So instead we just let an asset walk out the door for nothing.
Or "cap space" when everyone is in agreement that the team doesn't need to be adding expensive long term deals.
how do you know twolves were not asking for more?
Obviously that changes the conversation, but if they were asking for something unreasonable, this deal isn't being negotiated right up to the deadline and in the news for days.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
and i dont remember reading once he tried to trade up, i remember seeing people say he wanted to trade down or was in love with winslow
The assumption was that the Lakers would take either Russell or Okafor. But if Deangelo was off the board that Philly would be willing to trade down since they had no need for another big since in the prior years they already drafted big. Winslow or Mudiay were thought to be the picks if the Knicks didn't trade down for Kaminsky who the Knicks also liked.
Don't think we have any playing time for him. I was more surprised that a team that is holding tryouts to fill out their rotation is cutting arguably their 4th best player.
Why would they do that, though? Jennings is the only other PG on the roster. Baker isn't a PG.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
how do you expect them to trade rose if no one wanted him?
and adding 3 picks is not adding 3 young guys to kp and hernangomez?
holiday is not a young player?
yoi act like the knicks are stuck with this team with no way to improve
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that is not changing gears?
and i dont remember reading once he tried to trade up, i remember seeing people say he wanted to trade down or was in love with winslow
The assumption was that the Lakers would take either Russell or Okafor. But if Deangelo was off the board that Philly would be willing to trade down since they had no need for another big since in the prior years they already drafted big. Winslow or Mudiay were thought to be the picks if the Knicks didn't trade down for Kaminsky who the Knicks also liked.
i never read the knicks were trying to move up, never once...
fsct is no one knew who the knicks loked til after when it came out gaines told phil he had to draft kp..
also finding hernangomez was a steal
dont know about deron but the pelicans are doing jones a favor
I guess so Deron can go play for a contender. NO is trying to make the playoffs so no idea why they'd do that. Unless they're trying to get a top 3 pick still...
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For everyone who keeps saying "kids' and "young pieces"...the Knicks have 2. KP and Willy who probably play the same position. Not complaining about them at all but besides them who's on this roster that's on the same "arc" as them? Please don't say Kuzmingas. They don't exactly have a treasure chest of young players.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
how do you expect them to trade rose if no one wanted him?
and adding 3 picks is not adding 3 young guys to kp and hernangomez?
holiday is not a young player?
yoi act like the knicks are stuck with this team with no way to improve
I'd rather than cut Rose to be honest. But I was referring to Jennings/ KOQ/ Lee- anyone who could bring back something to build on.
Holiday is 28 and not that good. He's not young or good. There's definitely ways to improve this team, Phil's just not doing them.
How can a team be all in on a guy that spent all of 10 games on the sacred Brookyln Nets before they deemed he had no use in the NBA??
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the Mavs are "all-in" on Yogi and released Deron as a courtesy. His short list is apparently 2 teams, Jazz and Cavs.
How can a team be all in on a guy that spent all of 10 games on the sacred Brookyln Nets before they deemed he had no use in the NBA??
You'd have to ask them lol
the bulls had to give up a pick to trade gibson who is better than oquinn..
noel got traded for 2 2nd round picks..
much better than oquinn...
you dont just give away players with value..
if he had traded for pj tucker or a longer contract of a veteran than i would have killed him but i am not going to kill phil for not making a deal
the bulls had to give up a pick to trade gibson who is better than oquinn..
noel got traded for 2 2nd round picks..
much better than oquinn...
you dont just give away players with value..
Excellent point NYG16. Plenty will happen pre draft day
I don't understand why people are pissed
The most important thing that needs to happen now is that the Knicks continue to lose
if he had traded for pj tucker or a longer contract of a veteran than i would have killed him but i am not going to kill phil for not making a deal
Also, I really respect Ainge/ Morey/ Marks and other GMs who actually address the media. Fans are really interested in this and want to hear from the GM directly. We don't want to hear from Berman of the Post. Jackson hasn't addressed the media once since the season started. Unreal.
but they can be 9 or 10 man and they are om very cheap deals...
they need to hit on this pick, preferrably a guard...
they also need to find 2 diamonds in the rough like hernangomez with their 2 2nds
lottery night and draft day will be 2 very important days for the knicks...
of course watch the knicks go like 20 and 5 down the stretch and make the playoffs...
instead of screaming and yelling..
you want to give some examples of what he should of done differently? besides noah whcih i think everyone agrees with..
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In comment 13369766 DanMetroMan said:
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the Mavs are "all-in" on Yogi and released Deron as a courtesy. His short list is apparently 2 teams, Jazz and Cavs.
How can a team be all in on a guy that spent all of 10 games on the sacred Brookyln Nets before they deemed he had no use in the NBA??
You'd have to ask them lol
Haha I was being facetious. He's probably going to end up being better than all the young prospects currently on the Nets roster. Still think its laughable the Nets thought they had too much depth to give him a shot.
the bulls had to give up a pick to trade gibson who is better than oquinn..
noel got traded for 2 2nd round picks..
much better than oquinn...
you dont just give away players with value..
if he had traded for pj tucker or a longer contract of a veteran than i would have killed him but i am not going to kill phil for not making a deal
Good and fair points. I would argue a better more savvy GM makes the Rose/Rubio work and could also find a good return for Lee.
I have to disagree on Kuz and Holiday though. Those guys aren't getting minutes on a good team.
So much for this....
You're just wrong. He's not even remotely as bad as Isiah. Isiah traded what eventually became the SECOND pick in the draft for Eddy Curry. Isiah showed neither respect for draft picks nor restraint when it came to free agency... it was a total fuck-up. And keep in mind, Isiah was better than Scott Layden.
Evergreen!
Phil didnt want porzingis? is that why his number 1 guy told him he had to draft him no matter what?
and donnie walsh was fucking awful..
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Nearly everyone that covers the league thought the Wolves trading Rubio for Rose was idiotic. Yet, the Knicks decline the deal.
anyone who trades an expiring for a longer deal 9 tomes out of ten gets another asset
The Knicks would have been getting an asset - they'd be getting the better player with a lower price tag.
Phil lucked into kp? do you realize how many gms and media members ripped phil for drafting kp?
how does someone luck into draftimg someone that he got ripped for draftimg..
and my bet is you were one of the people ripping him whem he drafted kp
Donnie Walsh? No he didn't do a good job. I don't know what you're on about.
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In comment 13369644 Canton said:
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Nearly everyone that covers the league thought the Wolves trading Rubio for Rose was idiotic. Yet, the Knicks decline the deal.
anyone who trades an expiring for a longer deal 9 tomes out of ten gets another asset
The Knicks would have been getting an asset - they'd be getting the better player with a lower price tag.
a lower price tag? rubio is signed for another 3 years at 13 million a year...
you have any proof he tried to trade up? because every news outlet said he tried to trade down..
Again - I remain stunned that he got another GM job in the NBA, although it did take him 13 years to get it.
again do you have proof he tried to trade up? i dont remember him trying to trade up..
walsh sold his assets 50 cents on the dollar and then traded 1st round picks to get rid of jared jefferies...
he drafted gallo good and jordan hill with lottery picks..
he aig ed stat to 100 million because he panicked he was not going to sign anyone..
He hired Fisher as his first coach, how was that move?
He signed Lopez, then traded him for Rose. How was that move, now that they are stuck with Rose.
He traded away JR Smith for nothing. How was that move?
He hired Hornacek. How was that move?
He signed Noah to an outrageous contract. How was that move?
He signed Lee and Jennings, how were those moves?
he devalued his best asset to the point of no return, the guy he signed to start. How was that move?
He was so convinced that Rose was going to be great for the Knicks that he signed Noah to that contract. How was that move?
You need more then this?
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In comment 13369658 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13369644 Canton said:
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Nearly everyone that covers the league thought the Wolves trading Rubio for Rose was idiotic. Yet, the Knicks decline the deal.
anyone who trades an expiring for a longer deal 9 tomes out of ten gets another asset
The Knicks would have been getting an asset - they'd be getting the better player with a lower price tag.
a lower price tag? rubio is signed for another 3 years at 13 million a year...
AAV is more important (IMO) than total contract value. For one thing, the Knicks are not cash-poor, so the total contract value isn't a problem. For another, they're going to spend cap room if they have it. And finally, they're going to need a PG anyway. So yes, it's a lower price tag in the way that I'm looking at it.
What do you think Rubio would get on the open market if he were a free agent this offseason? What do you think the Knicks will spend on a FA PG this offseason? And will they get a PG at least as good as Rubio for whatever they spend? Most importantly, this ensures that Rose walks and they will have gotten nothing in return for him. None of the second pieces that were speculated about were significant enough to have been dealbreakers. Ultimately, it seems foolish (again, IMO) that Phil would have been willing to deal Rose for Rubio + Bjelica, but not Rubio straight up.
What are you going on about? The report was that the Knicks offered Rose one for one for Rubio and it was Minnesota who said no.
Diluting?
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Ultimately, it seems foolish (again, IMO) that Phil would have been willing to deal Rose for Rubio + Bjelica, but not Rubio straight up.
What are you going on about? The report was that the Knicks offered Rose one for one for Rubio and it was Minnesota who said no.
Where was that? Maybe I wasn't following closely enough down to the wire, but most of the day it was that Phil was holding out for a second piece, wasn't it?
As the Knicks they will live and die with the upcoming 1st (and upcoming picks). Maybe we can dream Melo opens up his list in the off-season and the Knicks add an asset or 2 in a Melo deal but realistically it's KP/Willy guy we add this year and build upon that.
He hired Fisher as his first coach, how was that move? ACTUALLY HE HIRED KERR BUT KERR ASKED HIM TO LET HIM GO TO GS AND HE DID
He signed Lopez, then traded him for Rose. How was that move, now that they are stuck with Rose.
HE ALSO GOT A 2ND ROUND PICK IN THAT DEAL AND IT IS LOOKING LIKE A HIGH 2ND
He traded away JR Smith for nothing. How was that move?
JR SMITH WAS CONSIDERED UNTRADEABLE AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE AND HE TRADED HIM BECAUSE KNICKS DECIDED TO TANK
He hired Hornacek. How was that move? STILL TO EARLY TO TLL
He signed Noah to an outrageous contract. How was that move?EVERYONE ALREADY AGREED BAD DEAL
He signed Lee and Jennings, how were those moves?JENNINGS IS AN EXPIRING SO DOESNT HURT ANYTHING, LEE IS A GOOD VET DOESNT REALLY HURT ANYTHING
he devalued his best asset to the point of no return, the guy he signed to start. How was that move?MELO WAS GOING NOWHERE EITHER WAY BECAUSE OF HIS NTC, HIM SAYING BAD STUFF ABOUT MELO DIDNT MAKE THE CLIPPERS LOW BALL THE KNICKS
He was so convinced that Rose was going to be great for the Knicks that he signed Noah to that contract. How was that move?ALREADY SAID NOAH
You need more then this?
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In comment 13369837 Gatorade Dunk said:
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Ultimately, it seems foolish (again, IMO) that Phil would have been willing to deal Rose for Rubio + Bjelica, but not Rubio straight up.
What are you going on about? The report was that the Knicks offered Rose one for one for Rubio and it was Minnesota who said no.
Where was that? Maybe I wasn't following closely enough down to the wire, but most of the day it was that Phil was holding out for a second piece, wasn't it?
Nevermind - I just saw it in the post-deadline flurry. That changes my view, obviously, as I was still under the impression that it was Phil's insistence on a second piece that was that sticking point.
Knicks have to build from ground up with the picks they have
The very bad decision to not only re-sign Carmelo, but giving him the full no trade.
The very good decision to draft a little-known, lanky European player in the NY market which was screaming for Mudiay or Winslow took alot of guts.
As for the rest of that stuff, J.R. Smith s a bum. They are not stuck with Rose. Has anything else really mattered?
My bigger issue with Phil is the obsession with the triangle and Kurt Rambis. I do think Hornacek can coach.
that is why i want one of these yoing guards...
if they did go tatum or jackson, i wouldnt mind mason in the 2nd or as an undrafted
this may get me killed but i think if melo was off the team we would not hate rose as much..
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like to go on record and state if Derrick Rose plays "a little better" second half and we give him an extension I will cease following the Knicks until Phil Jackson is gone.
this may get me killed but i think if melo was off the team we would not hate rose as much..
That may or may not be so but either Melo is here next year OR you deal Melo and fully are looking to rebuild so it's hard to formulate a scenario where we would find out. You don't deal Melo and retain Rose.
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In comment 13369858 DanMetroMan said:
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like to go on record and state if Derrick Rose plays "a little better" second half and we give him an extension I will cease following the Knicks until Phil Jackson is gone.
this may get me killed but i think if melo was off the team we would not hate rose as much..
That may or may not be so but either Melo is here next year OR you deal Melo and fully are looking to rebuild so it's hard to formulate a scenario where we would find out. You don't deal Melo and retain Rose.
i agree, my big fear is this team goes on a run and the entire team is brought back
yes! that is worst case scenario
Phil has done a poor job, his day is and has been done.
What year do the Knicks win a championship - My guess -
2027 - 10 years from now. There is a 7th grade star somewhere that will deliver a championship to NY in 2027
I think a lot of the lack of movement was that the best teams had nothing to trade due to legacy deals.
Note that Berman's lede is that we turned down the swap. I suspect both NY and MIN want to claim they turned down the 1 for 1. More plausible from NY IMO.
Also play Orlando twice in the next 2 weeks. Good news is that there are 10 road games next month and the 4 Philly/Orlando games are the only guaranteed wins I see.
If Porzingis gets healthier and starts to play better with Rose, they could actually win some remaining games.
Noah's contract will be worst than Curry who actually put up big numbers when he did play. Thomas traded for Randolph and Crawford, two players who went on to be all-stars and Crawford a multiple six man of the year winner. He drafted David Lee with the last pick in the 1st round who received a max contract. Trevor Ariza was a key member on the 2009 Lakers championship team. Fyre won it with Cleveland last year. Only two of the players he drafted did not receive a second contract in the NBA Collins and Balkman. I forgot he also drafted Wilson Chandler in the later part of the draft. The funny thing is that Isiah has drafted better than most Knicks GMs in over 30 years.
Phil also drafted Grant, Early and the Greek's Freak's brother. Two of them are already out of the league and Grant appears to be soon on his way. Layden drafts were just horrendous and Walsh biggest draft piece was Gallo who was scouted by Isiah. Walsh/D'Antonio declared their 2009 lottery pick to be bad rookie after only six months.
That's the point. Since Ernie all Knicks GMs runs have been disastrous. Starting with Tapscott taking Weis over Artest.
That said, it wasn't a make or break either way, and I certainly see the rationale in not making the move.
They need to draft a PG, and not spend money stupidly.
I'm still not 100% sure where I stand on Melo. Last year, I was staunchly in favor of building a team with him in mind. Now, his lack of defense is no longer overshadowed as much by his offense, as his scoring is on the decline. So, getting an asset for him would have been welcome. But, I'm still not convinced they can't win with him here.
I'm not sure how or if they could get there.