I love how all the supporters of Phil point to him not trading future picks. Some baseline. Not exactly the mark of a great GM.
The guy has been a failure and is a joke. Throw that big money at a top proven GM, not a senial old man.
The crazy thing is that the big plus he gets on drafting KP, he basically still tried to trade up to get Russell and Okafor off a season where he predicted they would go the playoffs. He has been pretty horrible.
when did he try to trade up?
and what is wrong with thinking you are going to make the playoffs, melo gets hurt and shifting the ciurse and tanking? isnt that a good thing he had the forsight to change directions?
Prior the draft. Philly and NY media were all over this topic.
And as far as foresight goes... I'm not sure he had much of a choice but watch his team flame out. It's not he making these moves to land a top lottery pick. Even his coach said they were trying to win games but just can't get wins. Most of the guys he talked about developing aren't even on the team with the exception of Thomas. So...
with or without those "bad" contracts, even Noah, it will come down to the drafts. Nothing else matters. If the Knicks are sitting here 2-3 years from now with a budding superstar in KP (hopefully) and a top ten PG from this draft? They will be just fine.
You had a team interested and couldn't finish because you expected too much of a return.
So instead we just let an asset walk out the door for nothing.
Or "cap space" when everyone is in agreement that the team doesn't need to be adding expensive long term deals.
how do you know twolves were not asking for more?
Obviously that changes the conversation, but if they were asking for something unreasonable, this deal isn't being negotiated right up to the deadline and in the news for days.
For everyone who keeps saying "kids' and "young pieces"...the Knicks have 2. KP and Willy who probably play the same position. Not complaining about them at all but besides them who's on this roster that's on the same "arc" as them? Please don't say Kuzmingas. They don't exactly have a treasure chest of young players.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
and i dont remember reading once he tried to trade up, i remember seeing people say he wanted to trade down or was in love with winslow
The assumption was that the Lakers would take either Russell or Okafor. But if Deangelo was off the board that Philly would be willing to trade down since they had no need for another big since in the prior years they already drafted big. Winslow or Mudiay were thought to be the picks if the Knicks didn't trade down for Kaminsky who the Knicks also liked.
please sign Jones, offering him playing time. He's 25 with a 16.32 PER, just dropped 36 and 11 on the Cavs a few weeks back.
Don't think we have any playing time for him. I was more surprised that a team that is holding tryouts to fill out their rotation is cutting arguably their 4th best player.
For everyone who keeps saying "kids' and "young pieces"...the Knicks have 2. KP and Willy who probably play the same position. Not complaining about them at all but besides them who's on this roster that's on the same "arc" as them? Please don't say Kuzmingas. They don't exactly have a treasure chest of young players.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
how do you expect them to trade rose if no one wanted him?
and adding 3 picks is not adding 3 young guys to kp and hernangomez?
holiday is not a young player?
yoi act like the knicks are stuck with this team with no way to improve
RE: RE: he traded away smith and shumper for nothing
and i dont remember reading once he tried to trade up, i remember seeing people say he wanted to trade down or was in love with winslow
The assumption was that the Lakers would take either Russell or Okafor. But if Deangelo was off the board that Philly would be willing to trade down since they had no need for another big since in the prior years they already drafted big. Winslow or Mudiay were thought to be the picks if the Knicks didn't trade down for Kaminsky who the Knicks also liked.
i never read the knicks were trying to move up, never once...
fsct is no one knew who the knicks loked til after when it came out gaines told phil he had to draft kp..
Why were those guys bought out? What am I missing?
I guess so Deron can go play for a contender. NO is trying to make the playoffs so no idea why they'd do that. Unless they're trying to get a top 3 pick still...
The immediate future of the franchise hinges on draft night. We need an impact PG or wing player in the top 10, and at least another contributor later on. Lee and O'Quinn are tradeable assets, but no need to force it right now. We'll be OK if we truly commit to rebuilding - but, will we finally do that? I have my doubts.
For everyone who keeps saying "kids' and "young pieces"...the Knicks have 2. KP and Willy who probably play the same position. Not complaining about them at all but besides them who's on this roster that's on the same "arc" as them? Please don't say Kuzmingas. They don't exactly have a treasure chest of young players.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
how do you expect them to trade rose if no one wanted him?
and adding 3 picks is not adding 3 young guys to kp and hernangomez?
holiday is not a young player?
yoi act like the knicks are stuck with this team with no way to improve
I'd rather than cut Rose to be honest. But I was referring to Jennings/ KOQ/ Lee- anyone who could bring back something to build on.
Holiday is 28 and not that good. He's not young or good. There's definitely ways to improve this team, Phil's just not doing them.
the bulls had to give up a pick to trade gibson who is better than oquinn..
noel got traded for 2 2nd round picks..
much better than oquinn...
you dont just give away players with value..
Excellent point NYG16. Plenty will happen pre draft day
I don't understand why people are pissed
The most important thing that needs to happen now is that the Knicks continue to lose
if he had traded for pj tucker or a longer contract of a veteran than i would have killed him but i am not going to kill phil for not making a deal
So the Cavs are going to get Bogut/ Deron for nothing? Unbelievable.
Also, I really respect Ainge/ Morey/ Marks and other GMs who actually address the media. Fans are really interested in this and want to hear from the GM directly. We don't want to hear from Berman of the Post. Jackson hasn't addressed the media once since the season started. Unreal.
The immediate future of the franchise hinges on draft night. We need an impact PG or wing player in the top 10, and at least another contributor later on. Lee and O'Quinn are tradeable assets, but no need to force it right now. We'll be OK if we truly commit to rebuilding - but, will we finally do that? I have my doubts.
lottery night and draft day will be 2 very important days for the knicks...
of course watch the knicks go like 20 and 5 down the stretch and make the playoffs...
believe there is a single person who will stick up for Phil, it is SICKENING how bad he has done. He is WORSE then Isiah Thomas, and when he is gone then the people who refuse to wake the fuck up now will realize it, but I'm sure they will either disappear or make their excuses. Anyone who is not outraged at the job he has done is beyond words. he has been HORRIBLE.
believe there is a single person who will stick up for Phil, it is SICKENING how bad he has done. He is WORSE then Isiah Thomas, and when he is gone then the people who refuse to wake the fuck up now will realize it, but I'm sure they will either disappear or make their excuses. Anyone who is not outraged at the job he has done is beyond words. he has been HORRIBLE.
instead of screaming and yelling..
you want to give some examples of what he should of done differently? besides noah whcih i think everyone agrees with..
the Mavs are "all-in" on Yogi and released Deron as a courtesy. His short list is apparently 2 teams, Jazz and Cavs.
How can a team be all in on a guy that spent all of 10 games on the sacred Brookyln Nets before they deemed he had no use in the NBA??
You'd have to ask them lol
Haha I was being facetious. He's probably going to end up being better than all the young prospects currently on the Nets roster. Still think its laughable the Nets thought they had too much depth to give him a shot.
not see this myself so could be total BS but someone on twitter was claiming Woj reported Ainge offered BOTH Nets picks in deals for George (and possibly Butler)? Hard to believe teams would turn that down.
NOBODY is coming here, NOBODY. Not anyone good, only mediocre players who Phil grossly overpays, like he has done since he got here. Have fun, and anyone who is honest knows he lucked into Porzingis, he didn't even want him! He couldn't trade up! LOL! Unreal. anyone who thinks he has done a good job is, I don't want to say. Donnie Walsh, HE, did a good job. That is the only reason anything good has happened here.
it's gonna be funny when Yogi is the second coming of Linsanity
but when was the last trade deadline where the knicks had any desirable players? Rose, Jennings, KOQ, Kuz, Melo(I wish). Every other trade deadline is some pipedream.
believe there is a single person who will stick up for Phil, it is SICKENING how bad he has done. He is WORSE then Isiah Thomas, and when he is gone then the people who refuse to wake the fuck up now will realize it, but I'm sure they will either disappear or make their excuses. Anyone who is not outraged at the job he has done is beyond words. he has been HORRIBLE.
You're just wrong. He's not even remotely as bad as Isiah. Isiah traded what eventually became the SECOND pick in the draft for Eddy Curry. Isiah showed neither respect for draft picks nor restraint when it came to free agency... it was a total fuck-up. And keep in mind, Isiah was better than Scott Layden.
NOBODY is coming here, NOBODY. Not anyone good, only mediocre players who Phil grossly overpays, like he has done since he got here. Have fun, and anyone who is honest knows he lucked into Porzingis, he didn't even want him! He couldn't trade up! LOL! Unreal. anyone who thinks he has done a good job is, I don't want to say. Donnie Walsh, HE, did a good job. That is the only reason anything good has happened here.
Phil didnt want porzingis? is that why his number 1 guy told him he had to draft him no matter what?
NOBODY is coming here, NOBODY. Not anyone good, only mediocre players who Phil grossly overpays, like he has done since he got here. Have fun, and anyone who is honest knows he lucked into Porzingis, he didn't even want him! He couldn't trade up! LOL! Unreal. anyone who thinks he has done a good job is, I don't want to say. Donnie Walsh, HE, did a good job. That is the only reason anything good has happened here.
Phil lucked into kp? do you realize how many gms and media members ripped phil for drafting kp?
how does someone luck into draftimg someone that he got ripped for draftimg..
and my bet is you were one of the people ripping him whem he drafted kp
NOBODY is coming here, NOBODY. Not anyone good, only mediocre players who Phil grossly overpays, like he has done since he got here. Have fun, and anyone who is honest knows he lucked into Porzingis, he didn't even want him! He couldn't trade up! LOL! Unreal. anyone who thinks he has done a good job is, I don't want to say. Donnie Walsh, HE, did a good job. That is the only reason anything good has happened here.
Donnie Walsh? No he didn't do a good job. I don't know what you're on about.
I'm wrong, he is not as bad as him. How happy are you now, I admitted I was wrong, although history is not done. he tried to trade up, but don't believe it. he has been just great.
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In comment 13369692 TyreeHelmet said:
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I love how all the supporters of Phil point to him not trading future picks. Some baseline. Not exactly the mark of a great GM.
The guy has been a failure and is a joke. Throw that big money at a top proven GM, not a senial old man.
The crazy thing is that the big plus he gets on drafting KP, he basically still tried to trade up to get Russell and Okafor off a season where he predicted they would go the playoffs. He has been pretty horrible.
when did he try to trade up?
and what is wrong with thinking you are going to make the playoffs, melo gets hurt and shifting the ciurse and tanking? isnt that a good thing he had the forsight to change directions?
Prior the draft. Philly and NY media were all over this topic.
And as far as foresight goes... I'm not sure he had much of a choice but watch his team flame out. It's not he making these moves to land a top lottery pick. Even his coach said they were trying to win games but just can't get wins. Most of the guys he talked about developing aren't even on the team with the exception of Thomas. So...
and i dont remember reading once he tried to trade up, i remember seeing people say he wanted to trade down or was in love with winslow
Well said
So there you go. Assuming that's true, can't blame Phil for passing. Rubio isn't worth adding more pieces to the deal.
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Wolves turn down Rose for Rubio straight up at the deadline
So there you go. Assuming that's true, can't blame Phil for passing. Rubio isn't worth adding more pieces to the deal.
yeah basically said at the last minute phil went back and say do you want to go straight up and timberwolves said no
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You had a team interested and couldn't finish because you expected too much of a return.
So instead we just let an asset walk out the door for nothing.
Or "cap space" when everyone is in agreement that the team doesn't need to be adding expensive long term deals.
how do you know twolves were not asking for more?
Obviously that changes the conversation, but if they were asking for something unreasonable, this deal isn't being negotiated right up to the deadline and in the news for days.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
and i dont remember reading once he tried to trade up, i remember seeing people say he wanted to trade down or was in love with winslow
The assumption was that the Lakers would take either Russell or Okafor. But if Deangelo was off the board that Philly would be willing to trade down since they had no need for another big since in the prior years they already drafted big. Winslow or Mudiay were thought to be the picks if the Knicks didn't trade down for Kaminsky who the Knicks also liked.
Don't think we have any playing time for him. I was more surprised that a team that is holding tryouts to fill out their rotation is cutting arguably their 4th best player.
Why would they do that, though? Jennings is the only other PG on the roster. Baker isn't a PG.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
how do you expect them to trade rose if no one wanted him?
and adding 3 picks is not adding 3 young guys to kp and hernangomez?
holiday is not a young player?
yoi act like the knicks are stuck with this team with no way to improve
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that is not changing gears?
and i dont remember reading once he tried to trade up, i remember seeing people say he wanted to trade down or was in love with winslow
The assumption was that the Lakers would take either Russell or Okafor. But if Deangelo was off the board that Philly would be willing to trade down since they had no need for another big since in the prior years they already drafted big. Winslow or Mudiay were thought to be the picks if the Knicks didn't trade down for Kaminsky who the Knicks also liked.
i never read the knicks were trying to move up, never once...
fsct is no one knew who the knicks loked til after when it came out gaines told phil he had to draft kp..
also finding hernangomez was a steal
dont know about deron but the pelicans are doing jones a favor
I guess so Deron can go play for a contender. NO is trying to make the playoffs so no idea why they'd do that. Unless they're trying to get a top 3 pick still...
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For everyone who keeps saying "kids' and "young pieces"...the Knicks have 2. KP and Willy who probably play the same position. Not complaining about them at all but besides them who's on this roster that's on the same "arc" as them? Please don't say Kuzmingas. They don't exactly have a treasure chest of young players.
How are they putting young pieces around those 2? Rebuilding takes years and I just would have liked to see Phil pick up some young players to take a flier on- the exact opposite of the players he acquired this off-season. Or get an additional 1st this year or 2nds for the vets they have ( while also weakening the roster and increasing the chances of a higher pick).
As for the contracts, yeah they can be moved but it takes assets to move those deals. Knicks fan should be very famiilar with this. I just can't fathom how any fan can defend Phil Jackson at this point. I can't believe the Knicks will have D. Rose auditioning for a contract for the next 25 games and going for a "playoff push".
The correct direction for this franchise is clear as day and Phil Jackson refuses to take it.
how do you expect them to trade rose if no one wanted him?
and adding 3 picks is not adding 3 young guys to kp and hernangomez?
holiday is not a young player?
yoi act like the knicks are stuck with this team with no way to improve
I'd rather than cut Rose to be honest. But I was referring to Jennings/ KOQ/ Lee- anyone who could bring back something to build on.
Holiday is 28 and not that good. He's not young or good. There's definitely ways to improve this team, Phil's just not doing them.
How can a team be all in on a guy that spent all of 10 games on the sacred Brookyln Nets before they deemed he had no use in the NBA??
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the Mavs are "all-in" on Yogi and released Deron as a courtesy. His short list is apparently 2 teams, Jazz and Cavs.
How can a team be all in on a guy that spent all of 10 games on the sacred Brookyln Nets before they deemed he had no use in the NBA??
You'd have to ask them lol
the bulls had to give up a pick to trade gibson who is better than oquinn..
noel got traded for 2 2nd round picks..
much better than oquinn...
you dont just give away players with value..
if he had traded for pj tucker or a longer contract of a veteran than i would have killed him but i am not going to kill phil for not making a deal
the bulls had to give up a pick to trade gibson who is better than oquinn..
noel got traded for 2 2nd round picks..
much better than oquinn...
you dont just give away players with value..
Excellent point NYG16. Plenty will happen pre draft day
I don't understand why people are pissed
The most important thing that needs to happen now is that the Knicks continue to lose
if he had traded for pj tucker or a longer contract of a veteran than i would have killed him but i am not going to kill phil for not making a deal
Also, I really respect Ainge/ Morey/ Marks and other GMs who actually address the media. Fans are really interested in this and want to hear from the GM directly. We don't want to hear from Berman of the Post. Jackson hasn't addressed the media once since the season started. Unreal.
but they can be 9 or 10 man and they are om very cheap deals...
they need to hit on this pick, preferrably a guard...
they also need to find 2 diamonds in the rough like hernangomez with their 2 2nds
lottery night and draft day will be 2 very important days for the knicks...
of course watch the knicks go like 20 and 5 down the stretch and make the playoffs...
instead of screaming and yelling..
you want to give some examples of what he should of done differently? besides noah whcih i think everyone agrees with..
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In comment 13369766 DanMetroMan said:
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the Mavs are "all-in" on Yogi and released Deron as a courtesy. His short list is apparently 2 teams, Jazz and Cavs.
How can a team be all in on a guy that spent all of 10 games on the sacred Brookyln Nets before they deemed he had no use in the NBA??
You'd have to ask them lol
Haha I was being facetious. He's probably going to end up being better than all the young prospects currently on the Nets roster. Still think its laughable the Nets thought they had too much depth to give him a shot.
the bulls had to give up a pick to trade gibson who is better than oquinn..
noel got traded for 2 2nd round picks..
much better than oquinn...
you dont just give away players with value..
if he had traded for pj tucker or a longer contract of a veteran than i would have killed him but i am not going to kill phil for not making a deal
Good and fair points. I would argue a better more savvy GM makes the Rose/Rubio work and could also find a good return for Lee.
I have to disagree on Kuz and Holiday though. Those guys aren't getting minutes on a good team.
So much for this....
You're just wrong. He's not even remotely as bad as Isiah. Isiah traded what eventually became the SECOND pick in the draft for Eddy Curry. Isiah showed neither respect for draft picks nor restraint when it came to free agency... it was a total fuck-up. And keep in mind, Isiah was better than Scott Layden.
Evergreen!
Phil didnt want porzingis? is that why his number 1 guy told him he had to draft him no matter what?
and donnie walsh was fucking awful..
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Nearly everyone that covers the league thought the Wolves trading Rubio for Rose was idiotic. Yet, the Knicks decline the deal.
anyone who trades an expiring for a longer deal 9 tomes out of ten gets another asset
The Knicks would have been getting an asset - they'd be getting the better player with a lower price tag.
Phil lucked into kp? do you realize how many gms and media members ripped phil for drafting kp?
how does someone luck into draftimg someone that he got ripped for draftimg..
and my bet is you were one of the people ripping him whem he drafted kp
Donnie Walsh? No he didn't do a good job. I don't know what you're on about.