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NJ.com: Could Giants get stunning steal at no. 23?

Big Blue '56 : 2/23/2017 7:31 am
Quote:


The Giants are expected to try to bring back both defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul and defensive tackle Johnathan Hankins, but there is a chance one or both players could walk in free agency. If so, the surprise availability of Stanford's Solomon Thomas with the No. 23 pick in April's NFL Draft would be a welcomed occurrence.

Thomas has been projected as a top-10 pick by many media outlets so far this draft season, but PFF's Steve Palazzolo has him falling away the way down to the Giants, where he would be a fascinating fit in Steve Spagnuolo's 4-3 defense.


Link - ( New Window )
Kratch:  
Big Blue '56 : 2/23/2017 7:33 am : link
Quote:


Thomas could play defensive end in a 4-3 or 3-4, and he also could be an undersized, but disruptive, interior tackle. In the Giants' case, he would likely play end, and bump inside on passing downs.

"He can do it all; play the run, rush the passer," a scout told NJ Advance Media's Mark Eckel. "He's going to be really good."

Undersized and disruptive a la John Randall?  
Big Blue '56 : 2/23/2017 7:36 am : link
I ask because I've never seen him play
I think it would be a pipedream to havd him last until 23  
robbieballs2003 : 2/23/2017 7:44 am : link
.
He would be exactly what we need at DT  
jlukes : 2/23/2017 7:45 am : link


but there is absolutely ZERO chance he makes it to 23
What a ridiculous non-story.  
yatqb : 2/23/2017 7:46 am : link
.
RE: I think it would be a pipedream to havd him last until 23  
The_Boss : 2/23/2017 7:47 am : link
In comment 13368693 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
.


This.

I think tomorrow's article will focus on how/why Myles Garrett will slip to 23.
I doubt he falls to 23  
George : 2/23/2017 7:54 am : link
But someone will: it happens every single year, due largely to a couple of teams panicking and overreaching for someone of lesser value to fill a need position. No one thought Prince Amukamara would fall to us, or that Dan Marino or Randy Moss or Aaron Rodgers or Lael Collins would drop so far either. It happens every single year.

Someone unexpected will be there for us at 23.

In a post a few weeks back...  
Klaatu : 2/23/2017 8:01 am : link
sjnyfan said that he was hoping Solomon Thomas might fall to us at #23, but after his performance in the Sun Bowl he figured that was not likely to happen.

Well, I didn't watch the Sun Bowl live, but I was able to find the entire game online. After watching it, I'm forced to agree. See for yourself.

Draft Breakdown has his highlights, but you can watch the entire game if you want to (linked below).

2016 Sun Bowl - ( New Window )
the idea that we need a penetrating no. 3 to go with Harrison  
grizz299 : 2/23/2017 8:13 am : link
is likely wrong.
Dallas is the threat for the next few and we matched up well because of two nose guard types.
D. Prescott hasn't shown that he can beat us without the running game so I think we can generate enough pass rush.
Twice a year, every year means this team has to be designed specifically to beat Dallas and that means stopping - insomuch as we are able - they're run game.
So having never seen him, and needing a DE  
jcn56 : 2/23/2017 8:19 am : link
my question to you guys - if he falls to say, 15 - do you pony up a pick to go up and get him?
He seems to have a very similar build to Vernon  
robbieballs2003 : 2/23/2017 8:24 am : link
So why is he considered to be lacking size? Is it his height? His arm length?
Don't think he'll last to 23  
jeff57 : 2/23/2017 8:24 am : link
Bears, Jags, Titans, Washington, Bengals, Saints, Detroit and Arizona could all take him.
RE: Don't think he'll last to 23  
AcidTest : 2/23/2017 8:31 am : link
In comment 13368736 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Bears, Jags, Titans, Washington, Bengals, Saints, Detroit and Arizona could all take him.


Agreed. It would be truly stunning if he was on the board at #23.
RE: He seems to have a very similar build to Vernon  
adamg : 2/23/2017 8:32 am : link
In comment 13368735 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
So why is he considered to be lacking size? Is it his height? His arm length?


Vernon doesn't have the prototype build of a 4-3 DE. It's definitely height, couple inches shorter than preferred.
Vernon is relentless. He doesn't take plays off  
Ivan15 : 2/23/2017 8:51 am : link
Find another DE not nicknamed JPP.
Thomas may be that guy but, if he is, he likely won't be there at 23.
RE: I doubt he falls to 23  
TyreeHelmet : 2/23/2017 8:54 am : link
In comment 13368708 George said:
Quote:
But someone will: it happens every single year, due largely to a couple of teams panicking and overreaching for someone of lesser value to fill a need position. No one thought Prince Amukamara would fall to us, or that Dan Marino or Randy Moss or Aaron Rodgers or Lael Collins would drop so far either. It happens every single year.

Someone unexpected will be there for us at 23.


Or a family member posts a video of him smoking a gasmask bong....Don't forget about Tunsil
RE: He seems to have a very similar build to Vernon  
Big Rick in FL : 2/23/2017 9:34 am : link
In comment 13368735 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
So why is he considered to be lacking size? Is it his height? His arm length?


I think the people saying he lacks size are penciling him in at DT. Yet I've seen a lot of draft sites say his best position in the NFL will be 4-3 DE. He's listed at 6'3 276 which is undersized for a DT. Great size for a DE. I saw a picture of him the other day and I'd be shocked if his arm length isn't similar to JPP.
He won't last to 23.  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/23/2017 9:42 am : link
If he did last that long, the Giants would take him imo even if Hankins and JPP are both retained.
I think the Giants  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/23/2017 9:43 am : link
would move him around, DT and DE.
There is another guy like this: Malik McDowell  
BillT : 2/23/2017 10:28 am : link
6'5" 276. Plays inside and outside.

Anyone have an opinion about him. He looks like he might be there at 23 and is an interesting talent. The write-ups rave about his skills.
RE: There is another guy like this: Malik McDowell  
jlukes : 2/23/2017 10:30 am : link
In comment 13368979 BillT said:
Quote:
6'5" 276. Plays inside and outside.

Anyone have an opinion about him. He looks like he might be there at 23 and is an interesting talent. The write-ups rave about his skills.


He is the most intriguing Giant-like prospect I have on my radar. Has the measurables and the skill-set the Giants would love, was a Top 10 pick coming in this year, but had a down year and his stock dropped.

RE: There is another guy like this: Malik McDowell  
robbieballs2003 : 2/23/2017 10:31 am : link
In comment 13368979 BillT said:
Quote:
6'5" 276. Plays inside and outside.

Anyone have an opinion about him. He looks like he might be there at 23 and is an interesting talent. The write-ups rave about his skills.


I watch video on him and was extremely impressed so I started researching him more. The two major knocks on him is that he doesn't play through bumbs and bruises and he is supposedly a very selfish player where he has gotten into verbal arguments with his coaches on numerous occasions.
I can't see a way the Giants don't get a "steal"  
Patrick77 : 2/23/2017 10:35 am : link
A QB will "drop"
A CB will "drop"
A S, ER, or DT will "drop"
Or the Giants could have access to an excellent interior OL worth the 23rd pick.

The way analysts talk about the depth at certain areas and the prospects the 23rd pick is going to have some serious talent.
RE: the idea that we need a penetrating no. 3 to go with Harrison  
chuckydee9 : 2/23/2017 10:36 am : link
In comment 13368722 grizz299 said:
Quote:
is likely wrong.
Dallas is the threat for the next few and we matched up well because of two nose guard types.
D. Prescott hasn't shown that he can beat us without the running game so I think we can generate enough pass rush.
Twice a year, every year means this team has to be designed specifically to beat Dallas and that means stopping - insomuch as we are able - they're run game.


So twice a year we beat dallas in close games but when we face redskins or packers or other pass happy teams we can't put pressure on them because our DT's are stonewalled and we get knocked out of first round of playoffs.. Teams like GB, Pats and Atlanta will destroy us on defense as the game goes on and we cannot generate any pressure up the middle..
Everytime we get a "steal"  
est1986 : 2/23/2017 10:38 am : link
It turns out to be a bust ..
I am looking for the part about him having issues with coaches  
robbieballs2003 : 2/23/2017 10:39 am : link
But I cannot find it.
RE: Everytime we get a  
Klaatu : 2/23/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13369002 est1986 said:
Quote:
It turns out to be a bust ..


Who are these "steals" you're talking about?
Testing  
JonC : 2/23/2017 10:50 am : link
Thomas and McDowell both look like 3-4 pieces to me, not seeing the closing burst or quick twitch.
McDowell reminds me of Chris Canty  
jlukes : 2/23/2017 10:50 am : link
.
We've seen this movie before  
HomerJones45 : 2/23/2017 10:53 am : link
guy we have first round grade on falls and we think we got a steal and instead we got a guy who fell for a reason. If this guy falls to 23, there is a reason he fell to 23.
lukes  
JonC : 2/23/2017 10:56 am : link
and Canty was arguably better at 3-4 DE, which is often the case for these types of athletes who are limited compared to what NYG seems to prefer as premium.
RE: McDowell reminds me of Chris Canty  
robbieballs2003 : 2/23/2017 11:02 am : link
In comment 13369031 jlukes said:
Quote:
.


Really? McDowell is more of a penetrator to me. Almost like an Atkins. McDowell is able to line up at DE and has a burst.
RE: RE: Everytime we get a  
The_Boss : 2/23/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13369016 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13369002 est1986 said:


Quote:


It turns out to be a bust ..



Who are these "steals" you're talking about?


Amukamara is probably the first guy who comes to my mind. When he wasn't injured, he was an OK CB. Many early mocks that year had him a top 10-15 pick.
Well  
Trainmaster : 2/23/2017 11:39 am : link
.
.
.
RE: There is another guy like this: Malik McDowell  
jeff57 : 2/23/2017 11:44 am : link
In comment 13368979 BillT said:
Quote:
6'5" 276. Plays inside and outside.

Anyone have an opinion about him. He looks like he might be there at 23 and is an interesting talent. The write-ups rave about his skills.


Probably best as a five-tech in a 3-4.
RE: RE: Everytime we get a steal  
est1986 : 2/23/2017 11:56 am : link
In comment 13369016 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13369002 est1986 said:


Quote:


It turns out to be a bust ..



Who are these "steals" you're talking about?


The most recent one, you mean? hmmmm Odi..
RE: RE: RE: Everytime we get a  
est1986 : 2/23/2017 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13369067 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 13369016 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 13369002 est1986 said:


Quote:


It turns out to be a bust ..



Who are these "steals" you're talking about?



Amukamara is probably the first guy who comes to my mind. When he wasn't injured, he was an OK CB. Many early mocks that year had him a top 10-15 pick.


He's the most recent First round "steal" we got.. He wasn't a scrub but he sure as hell wasn't a steal.
RE: RE: Everytime we get a  
est1986 : 2/23/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13369016 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13369002 est1986 said:


Quote:


It turns out to be a bust ..



Who are these "steals" you're talking about?


Odi. DaMonster. Were not expected to be there for us in the 3rd round, across the board they were called "great value picks". Rueben Randle was almost the pick instead of David Wilson SOO when we got him in the second.. We've had better luck when we've so called "reached".
I haven't watched enough McDowell games to comment on this, but  
yatqb : 2/23/2017 12:12 pm : link
I've read scouts saying that he can look like a stud for 3 plays, but for long stretches doesn't make any contribution.
Brantley or McDowell  
est1986 : 2/23/2017 12:15 pm : link
Next to Harrison... I say Brantley no question.
RE: RE: RE: Everytime we get a  
Klaatu : 2/23/2017 2:57 pm : link
In comment 13369192 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13369016 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 13369002 est1986 said:


Quote:


It turns out to be a bust ..



Who are these "steals" you're talking about?



Odi. DaMonster. Were not expected to be there for us in the 3rd round, across the board they were called "great value picks". Rueben Randle was almost the pick instead of David Wilson SOO when we got him in the second.. We've had better luck when we've so called "reached".


I'd say drafting Ahmad Bradshaw in the 7th round was a steal that didn't turn out to be a bust. Hakeem Nicks fell all the way to #29...Mario Manningham fell all the way to the 3rd round. Two more steals that paid big dividends. How about OBJ falling to #12? A minor steal, but a steal nonetheless. Landon Collins falling out of the 1st round, allowing the Giants to trade up in the 2nd to get him? A steal? More like Grand Larceny.

The point is that a blanket statement about steals turning out to be busts is without foundation. Does is happen? Sure. Sometimes you go for "good value" but it doesn't pan out. But other times it does, so I prefer to hang my hat on that.
we got a steal with Collins  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/23/2017 3:13 pm : link
and Cruz - that nobody complained about
McDowell  
area junc : 2/23/2017 4:01 pm : link
Think Muhammad Wilkerson
CBS Rankings have him 3rd overall  
Milton : 2/23/2017 4:15 pm : link
And The Huddle Report has him 5th overall.
Great Blue North has him 4th overall.
I think drafting a player like Solomon Thomas  
Jersey55 : 2/24/2017 11:01 am : link
is a luxury we can't afford since most of our woes are on the offensive side of the ball and that should be our focus in the early rounds of this draft...
How do you know you have a 'steal'  
Carson53 : 2/24/2017 11:17 am : link
until the player goes out there and proves himself.
You don't know if you have a steal on draft day, it's a fallacy to think that way if you are a media member.
You can always look back in hindsight, and say this guy was
a steal or that guy was a steal.
RE: RE: the idea that we need a penetrating no. 3 to go with Harrison  
TyFromQueens : 2/24/2017 11:36 am : link
In comment 13368998 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 13368722 grizz299 said:


Quote:


is likely wrong.
Dallas is the threat for the next few and we matched up well because of two nose guard types.
D. Prescott hasn't shown that he can beat us without the running game so I think we can generate enough pass rush.
Twice a year, every year means this team has to be designed specifically to beat Dallas and that means stopping - insomuch as we are able - they're run game.



So twice a year we beat dallas in close games but when we face redskins or packers or other pass happy teams we can't put pressure on them because our DT's are stonewalled and we get knocked out of first round of playoffs.. Teams like GB, Pats and Atlanta will destroy us on defense as the game goes on and we cannot generate any pressure up the middle..


Actually,we got plenty of pressure on The Packers in the playoff game. DRC getting hurt is what really killed us.
He's my favorite player in the draft  
Tuckrule : 2/24/2017 10:28 pm : link
I watched a lot of Stanford because of mccafrey and this dude stood out to me every single time. Great leverage and an uncrabile burst off the snap.
RE: Everytime we get a  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/25/2017 8:37 am : link
In comment 13369002 est1986 said:
Quote:
It turns out to be a bust ..


Landon Collins.
The draft will be interesting  
PEEJ : 2/25/2017 8:55 am : link
because of the QBs and the QB needy teams. If the top 3-4 teams who need QBs at the top of the 1st round pass on their first pick, they may be looking to trade up to 23 to get a QB.
So every player that pans out is a steal...?  
est1986 : 2/25/2017 3:31 pm : link
I thought a player that was projected to go much higher than he was taken was a steal... But OK.
RE: RE: Everytime we get a  
est1986 : 2/25/2017 3:34 pm : link
In comment 13371091 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 13369002 est1986 said:


Quote:


It turns out to be a bust ..



Landon Collins.


Didn't exactly steal him... We did per say, we got a sliding player but we did give up a 2nd and 4th round pick for him, we didn't STEAL him. We typically take guys that are expected to go later... Odell wasn't expected to go as high as he did, either do Pugh, Flowers, Apple... Prince was proclaimed a steal right away because he was projected top 10 nearly everywhere pre draft..
Solomon Thomas is considered by many to be a top 5 pick.  
Ira : 2/25/2017 4:15 pm : link
While anything's possible, it's highly unlikely that he falls that far.
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