Sometimes I see these kinds of articles and am blown away. To put it in perspective, the article does say that relatively few companies even offer the plans these days. Nevertheless, how much are people saving on their own? Does anyone know those numbers? If the numbers are similar, what are the long-term implications of having a nation where many people have nothing saved for retirement?
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any tips on additional places to put my money? I've got an extra 10,000 or so to "play with" so to speak ... any help would be greatly appreciated
^ roth portfolio is very aggressive, something with a relatively "Safe" long term return would be ideal. additional mutual funds outside of Roth?
Young people especially are worried about being liquid for a house purchase, wedding, vacation, etc. and I'd wager there's a lot of money sitting in savings/checking accounts to be used for a large purchase or an emergency.
I know that's separate since there's no growth potential, but wanted to throw it out there since I feel like my age bracket does this at a high rate.
Depends. For an 'emergency fund', you should aim for 6-12 months of expenses. But if you're saving for a large purchase you may want/need a lot more than that. You can still keep that money invested (as supposed to straight cash) somewhere, you just need it liquid, i.e not a retirement fund with withdrawal fees. Your large purchase horizon (5, 10, 20 years, etc) then determines your investment mix (e.g. CDs, bonds, stocks, etc).
Young people especially are worried about being liquid for a house purchase, wedding, vacation, etc. and I'd wager there's a lot of money sitting in savings/checking accounts to be used for a large purchase or an emergency.
I know that's separate since there's no growth potential, but wanted to throw it out there since I feel like my age bracket does this at a high rate.
The highly publicized data about cash on hand was the report that 47% of Americans would deal with an unplanned $400 emergency by either borrowing, selling something, or would be unable to raise the money.
Doesn't exactly point to a lot of people who are sitting liquid.
My guess is that there are plenty of BBIers this relates to... - ( New Window )
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currently getting a 414h from work and max out my Roth IRA yearly ...
any tips on additional places to put my money? I've got an extra 10,000 or so to "play with" so to speak ... any help would be greatly appreciated
^ roth portfolio is very aggressive, something with a relatively "Safe" long term return would be ideal. additional mutual funds outside of Roth?
One thing to take into consideration is the fact that it doesn't matter whether dividends in a Roth are qualified or non-qualified. That brings REITs into play. I'd be leery of commercial office space REITs but it might worth doing some homework on assisted living or medical REITS.
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In comment 13369403 annexOPR said:
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currently getting a 414h from work and max out my Roth IRA yearly ...
any tips on additional places to put my money? I've got an extra 10,000 or so to "play with" so to speak ... any help would be greatly appreciated
^ roth portfolio is very aggressive, something with a relatively "Safe" long term return would be ideal. additional mutual funds outside of Roth?
One thing to take into consideration is the fact that it doesn't matter whether dividends in a Roth are qualified or non-qualified. That brings REITs into play. I'd be leery of commercial office space REITs but it might worth doing some homework on assisted living or medical REITS.
Funny, my Roth is where I keep my Vanguard REIT ETF. It's not a big investment.
Good for you! She sounds like a smart young lady.
since we are not a country that is going to let old people die in the street, the government will wind up taking care of them anyway. we just need to enforce the laws and make sure payroll taxes are paid, so the system does not go broke or having to wind up cutting benefits
i read SS accounts for 37% of total retirement income nationwide. but what is happening now is more and more people are retiring outside of the US because they can't make it here on just their SS. So that is money that is flowing out of the country.
since we are not a country that is going to let old people die in the street, the government will wind up taking care of them anyway. we just need to enforce the laws and make sure payroll taxes are paid, so the system does not go broke or having to wind up cutting benefits
i read SS accounts for 37% of total retirement income nationwide. but what is happening now is more and more people are retiring outside of the US because they can't make it here on just their SS. So that is money that is flowing out of the country.
Anyway, my wife was diagnosed with a serious health issue recently - 51.
Not getting political, but Health issues are extremely relevant in our house.
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She nets about $100 a month in pay. Along with some graduation money she was just able to get the $1000 together to open an account with Vanguard and start a Roth. We told her we would do a 100% match in for whatever she deposits until the end of senior year.
Good for you! She sounds like a smart young lady.
If the school's won't make it mandatory to learn basic finance principles, parents really need to step up; good for you (I mean that)!
I was naturally a saver at a young age, probably from my grandfathers advice who wasd WW2 vet who learned a trade (electrician) and never ever missed work. Lived and died in the only house he ever owned which was paid off well before his retirement. I will be passing on that wisdom to my daughter, its the most important thing they can possibly learn in that middle school-high school timeframe.
people would rather spend on iPhones and digital cable than save? I don't really care what happens to them. People who truly don't have the means to save is another matter. Most people who think they don't have the means, actually do, IMO. they simply choose not to and pretend that it is out of their control.
but I agree, the young should be more aggressive - which I'd love to be. Where to put the money, now that is the question.
I was gonna start a new thread, should I? not trying to hijack the thread, but 401K talk seemed somewhat relevant.
Fixed
It had been going up way before Trump.
if I contribute max to a Roth annually, is their a limit to how much money I can put into a mutual fund(s) outside of the Roth?
I was lucky to be able to cash out a pension from an old job and between that and other 401Ks from other jobs, I'm doing ok. I actually started doing brokerage stuff through my IRA. One of my stocks is getting bought out, I nearly doubled my investment!!!! Yeah me! Hubby is self employed so he does a SEP. We hopefully will have a decent retirement. Not that great, but comfortable.
Does anyone actually do that? My wife and i have 4 months worth of mortgage payments in our emergency savings account, and that's probably more than we need. Hell you could use a line of credit as an emergency fund if you had to.
My SO stands to make $60K a year (in today's dollars) from a state pension...a pension which is massively under-funded.
$60K a year is A LOT of money to possible have or not have in retirement. How the hell do you make plans given that information?!
That is fine, but you better secure that line of credit NOW while you are employed. Keep it at a zero balance and dip into it only in the case of an emergency
My SO stands to make $60K a year (in today's dollars) from a state pension...a pension which is massively under-funded.
$60K a year is A LOT of money to possible have or not have in retirement. How the hell do you make plans given that information?!
yeah the whole thing is a pile of uncertainty. What I would really like to do is pull all of my 401k money out and move it into a self directed retirement fund. Then, use that fund to purchase an apartment building. The income stream would have to go back into that fund (you cannot touch it) or you will get taxed heavily. Then, when you are 65 you can begin drawing the money/positive cash flow from the rents as your source of income. If you do it right, your monthly income will be much greater than if you were to just leave that money in a 401k. Plus, you are not eating into the value if you bought a building. You live off of the rents and the building value is still there. You can then pass it onto your kids. Don't want to manage a building? A management company will do it all for you for anywhere from 5-7% of the rent roll.
Does anyone actually do that? My wife and i have 4 months worth of mortgage payments in our emergency savings account, and that's probably more than we need. Hell you could use a line of credit as an emergency fund if you had to.
For some of those people, sure, there's no way they could do it. But for many, it's because they've chosen to live above or to the limit of their means. I've known many, many people who have no excuse to not have that fund. But they have prioritized the new car, new furniture, big TV, etc, etc.
...if you are under the age of 55 (maybe under 60), there's a pretty good chance your Medicare and Social Security benefits are in for a haircut.
A serious haircut.
if I contribute max to a Roth annually, is their a limit to how much money I can put into a mutual fund(s) outside of the Roth?
You'll probably pay a little more in fees with a retirement age fund (0.15-0.16 with Vanguard), but you won't have to adjust the balances yourselves (e.g. periodic rebalancing and allocation changes).
Other option is to pick a target fund and then just invest in the underlying funds yourself with roughly the same percentage. Here's the Vanguard 2040 breakdown:
Ticker | % Invest | % Fees (Admiral)
VTSAX | 52.1% | 0.05%
VTIAX | 35.1% | 0.11%
VBTLX | 9.00% | 0.06%
VTABX | 3.80% | 0.12%
And there's no limit on the amount you can invest in non-retirement accounts.
...if you are under the age of 55 (maybe under 60), there's a pretty good chance your Medicare and Social Security benefits are in for a haircut.
A serious haircut.
That has been the chant from the 70's. So has the advice not to count on social security for anything.
"Entitlements" aren't going anywhere for a while.
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...if you are under the age of 55 (maybe under 60), there's a pretty good chance your Medicare and Social Security benefits are in for a haircut.
A serious haircut.
That has been the chant from the 70's. So has the advice not to count on social security for anything.
"Entitlements" aren't going anywhere for a while.
It was raised in the 70's, and Reagan and Tip O'Neil bought at generation worths of time to fix the issue with their 1983 compromise. All of us have been paying more and waited a year or two longer to qualify for full benefits since then.
Well, a generation has passed and nothing further has been done to resolve the issue. And given the current atmosphere in Washington I don't see anything being done. There was a fix among the many provisions of the Simpson Bowles Commission recommendations, but that was ignored by both parties because too many sacred cows would have been gored. And since the ignoring was bi-partisan, the media quickly lost interest.
As things stand, the system can operate as it stands for about another 15 years. Maybe a little less if the avalanche of people filing with disabilities continues. Then the haircut begins. Then everyone who is getting benefits, whether they've just turned 67 or have been receiving benefits for decades, is affected. Contrary to what some have said, people will not be getting nothing. But as MS said, there could be a haircut.
The question is - does America have the stomach to reverse course and have Grandma and Grandpa working til' they literally die, and/or living in spare rooms and basements, as it was in days before Social Security? Do we have the stomach for growing populations of elderly homeless, for the return of 'alms homes'?
I'm betting we do. Though America has made great progress in Civil Rights and equality when it comes to sex, race and religion - if anything, we've gone in the reverse direction regarding class. Upward mobility opportunity has been shrinking in this country for generations, the disparity between upper and lower class - the rapidly shrinking middle class draws much criticism and sympathy, but little if any action and legislation.
The future as I see it is bleak. We've completely forgotten the lessons of the greatest generation that lived through the Great Depression and WWII, and it's no coincidence that as they die off, we simply stop truly caring for one another the way they did.
Fidelity recommends have 2x your salary in your 401k by 35 which is pretty doable. My wife doesn't have a ton, we've mainly been focusing on mine since my employers have matched much more than hers but that's something I'll need to address soon, and definitely by the time daycare expenses are over with.
I am guessing she will buy a modest used car at that point so she has some transportation but the majority will go into savings and retirement.
She is saying all the right things, hopefully she follows through. But this is a kid that has done all her clothes shopping at Goodwill and has already sold the majority of her civilian wardrobe and prom dress through some site on the internet. Plus, you cannot spend too much on a submarine...LOL.
In short, she did not inherit her father's financial "skills."
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But as MS said, there could be a haircut.
The question is - does America have the stomach to reverse course and have Grandma and Grandpa working til' they literally die, and/or living in spare rooms and basements, as it was in days before Social Security? Do we have the stomach for growing populations of elderly homeless, for the return of 'alms homes'?
I'm betting we do. Though America has made great progress in Civil Rights and equality when it comes to sex, race and religion - if anything, we've gone in the reverse direction regarding class. Upward mobility opportunity has been shrinking in this country for generations, the disparity between upper and lower class - the rapidly shrinking middle class draws much criticism and sympathy, but little if any action and legislation.
The future as I see it is bleak. We've completely forgotten the lessons of the greatest generation that lived through the Great Depression and WWII, and it's no coincidence that as they die off, we simply stop truly caring for one another the way they did.
The key to the 1983 "patch" was that everybody, except those that were already retired and collecting benefits, suffered some degree of pain. What I see at this point is that everybody down in DC wants somebody else to pay for the fix. The difference between the parties is who that somebody is.
And this is all occurring in the backdrop of the fact that a significant portion of the problem come as a result of decisions made before many of us were born and/or (with respect to the 1973 addition of COLA's) were eligible to vote. Medicare is even worse. On one side of my family, my grandfather retired the year before Medicare was enacted. My grandmother lived until 1991. Covered for 26 years without ever having a deduction from her or my grandfather's paycheck. Add to that the inflation in Medical costs and no wonder the system is going broke.
Fidelity recommends have 2x your salary in your 401k by 35 which is pretty doable. My wife doesn't have a ton, we've mainly been focusing on mine since my employers have matched much more than hers but that's something I'll need to address soon, and definitely by the time daycare expenses are over with.
Main reasons for a rollover would be better fund options and/or ease of management. It's a lot easier to rebalance your portfolio if everything is in one place. That said, if you don't mind the little extra work once a quarter (or however often you rebalance), then I would go with whichever plan offers better fund options. Or a 3rd option is to roll it over to an IRA. I did the latter with my old 401k and started an IRA with Vanguard. Their fund expense fees are as cheap as you'll find and you get free trades of all their mutual funds/ETFs.
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In comment 13370318 njm said:
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Add to that the inflation in Medical costs and no wonder the system is going broke.
So the necessary adjustments to Social Security will come, but not until it actually crashes. Pathetic, but that's how we roll here.
thinking a vanguard retirement target fund in addition to maxing out my Roth should have me in great shape 30 years from now.
thank you guys again for any help you can provide.
thinking a vanguard retirement target fund in addition to maxing out my Roth should have me in great shape 30 years from now.
thank you guys again for any help you can provide.
I'm not one to recommend trying to time the market and certainly not an expert on whether it will keep rising or drop soon.
Generally speaking though, dollar cost averaging in addition to periodically rebalancing your portfolio helps to smooth out the peaks and valleys. So if you have $10k to invest, you could invest $2500 each quarter this year rather than all at once.
Obviously if you're using a target fund, then you can ignore rebalancing as they'll take care of that for you.
I can't predict what might happen in 10-15 years, but if the situation is the same in DC as it is today Social Security may stay "crashed" unless the changes can be done through the reconciliation process.
BTW- a month ago I got a new insurance card proving I am have a Pediatric Dental Care Plan as required under the ACA. I have no kids under 19, and my premium is therefore zero, but I get annual summaries of the plan and a statement that my premium will remain at zero as well as a pretty new card reflecting changes in coverage. Of course the insurance company has to bear the administrative cost of doing all that for me. And the ACA was supposed to help reduce costs?
I'm expecting a significant salary bump within the next year, so laying the groundwork to be as aggressive as possible in 2018
thank you again, much appreciated
It may become unrecognizable compared to how it is today, but today's system is unrecognizable relative to 20 years ago.
Alarmist phrases like "crash" and "broke" are more about the person who says it than what they are saying.
When your bike used to break, did you run around screaming "My bike is broke! My bike is broke!" or did you try to find a way to fix it?
my girlfriend is terrified to enter the world of investing ... I simply respond with "well, the rich aren't going to let it collapse or things will be so bad that money will be irrelevant"
basically, it'll rise/fall, but the money will be there barring a planet of the apes/return of the dinosaur situation.
I guess it could happen.
- Notch up retirement age, perhaps exempting certain professions
- Means test so the likes of Buffett aren’t receiving a check (it’s a “net”, after all)
- Hike capital gains over x amount to help fill coffers
Medicare/health care – coupled with the right’s blind adherence to trickle down - is the real problem that will bankrupt the USA and a “fix” (insofar as that’s even possible) is the opposite of straightforward and entails deeply moral (eg EoLC) as well as economic considerations.
Whether or not one is a proponent of Single payer (and the overwhelming amount of Americans – even right wing ones – are, at least in part…as that shockingly, mind-blowingly stupid sign xmead posted confirms) it makes little sense to have it apply to only ~1/5 of the population, and the sickest ~1/5 at that. It’s necessarily a recipe for a wildly expensive program since there are very few healthy to balance out the infirmed.
But since the private insurance Co.s obviously wants nothing to do with Granny’s cancer & Alzheimer’s and since under 65s are entrenched in a deeply inefficient and immoral system of their own seemingly impervious to sensible reform (again, one points to the aforementioned sign…oh my fucking God is that person stupid) we’re left with the status quo.
For the under 65s I’d decouple insurance from employment by nixing preferential tax treatment and – with stringent federal standards (in order to prevent a race to the bottom at the state level) allow everyone to buy their own plan from any insurance company. Ocare at least began the framework to make this possible. You own the plan of your choosing, our businesses are unburdened.
But for Medicare? Fuck if I have a solution. I’m sure not gonna be the one to tell Granny her last month on this planet is “too expensive”
- Notch up retirement age, perhaps exempting certain professions
- Means test so the likes of Buffett aren’t receiving a check (it’s a “net”, after all)
- Hike capital gains over x amount to help fill coffers
Medicare/health care – coupled with the right’s blind adherence to trickle down - is the real problem that will bankrupt the USA and a “fix” (insofar as that’s even possible) is the opposite of straightforward and entails deeply moral (eg EoLC) as well as economic considerations.
Whether or not one is a proponent of Single payer (and the overwhelming amount of Americans – even right wing ones – are, at least in part…as that shockingly, mind-blowingly stupid sign xmead posted confirms) it makes little sense to have it apply to only ~1/5 of the population, and the sickest ~1/5 at that. It’s necessarily a recipe for a wildly expensive program since there are very few healthy to balance out the infirmed.
But since the private insurance Co.s obviously wants nothing to do with Granny’s cancer & Alzheimer’s and since under 65s are entrenched in a deeply inefficient and immoral system of their own seemingly impervious to sensible reform (again, one points to the aforementioned sign…oh my fucking God is that person stupid) we’re left with the status quo.
For the under 65s I’d decouple insurance from employment by nixing preferential tax treatment and – with stringent federal standards (in order to prevent a race to the bottom at the state level) allow everyone to buy their own plan from any insurance company. Ocare at least began the framework to make this possible. You own the plan of your choosing, our businesses are unburdened.
But for Medicare? Fuck if I have a solution. I’m sure not gonna be the one to tell Granny her last month on this planet is “too expensive”
It's rare that someone so quickly and succinctly makes your point for you, so really...thank you.
If your daughter decides to leave the service after her obligation, she will get some net benefit with the new Blended Retirement System. If she decides to stay all 20 years, she will still get the benefit but probably not as great as those grandfathered in. Either way, your daughter is in a good place with the only real pension plan that will never go away.
But doing an Roth now is great for your daughter ($100 now? We used to get $50 as plebes). I started when I was 24 by maxing out my Roth (took a huge hit in the crash, but I saw that as an opportunity in the long run), so good on you for setting her up right when she's so young!
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I second this greatly. I spent part of it buying a used car, uniform (Marines get screwed with this one since we have to buy all new uniforms as opposed to our Navy classmates), and putting it into savings. I wish that I would have invested, but I didn't know shit about it and no one told me to do so until I sat down with my company commander in my first unit.