NFT: NHL Pre-Deadline Discussion

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In comment 13369040 Greg from LI said:

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I hope not. I'd be ok trading a young forward for a long term D solution (e.g. Trouba). Just dont ask me which forward.

Now is the dang time to trade Klein. Do it, Gorts.

Yeah, we're in a tough spot.

I think we really need a top 4 dman to be a contender but I have no interest in shipping out guys like Miller or Hayes.

the next week.

Quite a few of the current Canadiens don't fit the Julien mold (like they didn't fit the Therrien mold), but a new coach gives new freedom to trade a guy.

Galchenyuk is at the top of the list.

Then McCarron, Bealieu, Sergachev, Juulsen, Lehkonen, all young and the kind of player who I'd build around, not trade, but don't really fit the mold of the Julien system (the forwards at least).

I wouldn't mind seeing Desharnais traded. Even guys like Torrey Mitchell or Brian Flynn, who can win a face-off maybe play some PK, or Andrew Shaw.

WTF was Shaw doing on the PP vs the Rangers. That's a potential game losing decision right there.

...of I think the Rangers exceeded pre-season expectations. As the season evolved, expectations have changed and adjusted. I am sure the Islanders fans feel the same way (sellers vs buyers) now that they have a playoff spot.

Obviously the Vegas expansion throws in a unique factor this year. I personally do not feel that the team is a "Kevin Shattenkirk" away - he may move the needle slightly but not enough to trade valuable draft picks. I felt similarly about Eric Staal, last year.

Like arc, I do not want to move any of our young forward depth. However, this is where I may get criticized but I would think about moving Zuccarello for an enticing return and if a team was to throw a crazy offer for Grabner on his great season, I would have to think about it.

If the deadline comes and goes without any moves, that wouldn't be devastating.

In comment 13369040 Greg from LI said:

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With what defensemen are fetching, they really should shop Klein. They could probably get a second rounder for him.

Devs are definitely sellers at this point. Most of their top players are signed long term, so they don't have UFA's but hopefully they can move some vets like Lovejoy or Camm for draft picks.

that the deadline would be more active than usual because of the expansion draft.

Now I'm getting the feeling it's going to be more quiet than usual

the Blues may be willing to take a prospect and a conditional pick for Shattenkirk. Essentially a 2nd rounder that becomes a 1st if you re-sign him. I don't think I could pass that up for the Rangers. I know we haven't had a first rounder in ages, but we've supplemented that well with Hayes and Vesey and finding a 1st round talent like Buch in the 3rd. If we can get Shattenkirk without trading from the current roster I think you have to do that.

Also, if Hainsey got a 2nd round pick then the Rangers should be shopping Klein heavily.

for a guy they're likely to sign in the offseason anyway, and who won't be enough to make them a real contender.

because of expansion. Teams planned to know which players they'd expose before the season, now trades can blow that up.

Additionally,there are only 4 or 5 teams legit eliminated. At most. Teams can't throw in towel when they're 4 wins out of a playoff spot with as many as 25 games left.

But i could be wrong.

is a reason why I would consider trading Grabner. Believe me, under normal circumstances, I would not even consider it . It would hurt to lose him and lessen our chances but if it allows us to protect other players and maybe gaining some picks and prospects might be best long term.

I think getting Shattenkirk makes them a contender if he is played with McDonagh. Replacing one of the worst defenseman in the league with a player of Shattenkirk's caliber will make a huge difference.

I'm indifferent on the first - I think counting on Lundqvist being elite for more than three years is a risky proposition.

= NYR cup contenders, if not favorites.

The Rangers sit a forward every game who could slot in fine and the 4 offensive lines wouldn't miss a beat.

If there are any takers, that is. Flyers want to protect Stolarz from the expansion draft.

In comment 13369126 Greg from LI said:

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for a guy they're likely to sign in the offseason anyway, and who won't be enough to make them a real contender.

Why aren't they a real contender at that point? It's a 108 point team as is (and is not being propped up by elite goaltending like last season). To replace Girardi with Shattenkirk while not having to take away from the forward group is an enormous improvement.

Especially with how well Skjei has been playing.

I think that's at least an average group of D with the addition of Shattenkirk. Is it really much worse than the 15/16 group prior to Yandle's addition?

You're going to be replacing Holden with Shattenkirk, most likely. Having Yandle here sure didn't affect Girardi's ice time much, did it?

My only worry is that AV handles it like the Yandle situation and doesn't give him the minutes he deserved, and Girardi stays on the top pair even with Shattenkirk there.

But it's not a perfect comparison. Yandle is an LHD and he wasn't going to play over McDonagh. Shattenkirk as a RHD slots perfectly into the first pair. Though I don't believe in this strict adherence to handedness on defense, the Rangers staff clearly does.

Greg, we don't know that they wouldn't bump Girardi down. Like I said, it's not a perfect comparison to Yandle because Shattenkirk is a right handed shot.

But even playing Shattenkirk on the 2nd pair and the powerplay, Holden on the 3rd and Klein out of the lineup is a major improvement.

This season, which I agree is over-achievement, I don't think he'd be the one to sit.

I think it would force their hand to trade Klein.

than Shattenkirk.

and is likely a rental, only way I trade for him is if I think he's the missing piece to being a legit cup contender.

I don't see Shattenkirk the difference maker in NY.

Hamilton, Trouba, dream candidate Seth Jones, absolutely.

Shattenkirk, nope.

A prospect and 1st for Shat would be a steal. Can't see it happening. Also if that's the price, we still could move an extra forward for another potential D.

IF the Rangers aren't a serious contender, who is?

There are 6-8 every year that could win the Cup. The Rangers are certainly in the top half of that group.

Washington
Minnesota
Pittsburgh
New York
Chicago
San Jose?
Columbus?
Edmonton?
Anaheim?

In comment 13369231 pjcas18 said:

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than Shattenkirk. and is likely a rental, only way I trade for him is if I think he's the missing piece to being a legit cup contender. I don't see Shattenkirk the difference maker in NY. Hamilton, Trouba, dream candidate Seth Jones, absolutely. Shattenkirk, nope.

Not so sure about Yandle being better then Shat. Very similar players but arguments can be made for both.

In comment 13369171 BrettNYG10 said:

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I'm indifferent on the first - I think counting on Lundqvist being elite for more than three years is a risky proposition.

But then you're assuming that they can't be competitive without Lundqvist.

In comment 13369243 Giants in 07 said:

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IF the Rangers aren't a serious contender, who is? There are 6-8 every year that could win the Cup. The Rangers are certainly in the top half of that group. Washington Minnesota Pittsburgh New York Chicago San Jose? Columbus? Edmonton? Anaheim?

With the Rangers defensive depth and quality I do not consider them "legit" cup contenders.

Can they win? Of course, we all know in the NHL a hot goalie and timely scoring can carry a team, but when handicapping the field I look at the Rangers D as exploitable and likely the fatal flaw for them as a team.

including surely Hayes or Miller, and I'm not rehashing the Hayes debate right now, pj. Seth Jones isn't available.

Shattenkirk, because the Blues are really backed into a corner here, would cost much less. And if the speculation is true that they're willing to accept conditions on that draft pick depending on whether he re-signs, then that's even better. There are only so many runs with Hank remaining. This team has the forward group and goaltending to win, this could at least move the defense closer to the level needed. Then go re-coup some assets trading Klein and an extra forward.

I like Yandle a lot but you can't make definitive statements like that saying he's surely better than Shattenkirk. Nothing in the numbers suggests that it's clear. It's certainly a debate and both are very good.

below average. McDonagh's great, Shattenkirk is good....but Staal's still going to be stinking up the ice. Girardi's still going to be making snow angels. Klein likely stays in the lineup. Holden is average at best. Skjei is still erratic in his own end.

In comment 13369250 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 13369171 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I'm indifferent on the first - I think counting on Lundqvist being elite for more than three years is a risky proposition. But then you're assuming that they can't be competitive without Lundqvist.

I wouldn't phrase it that way. I don't think they can be competitive if Lundqvist becomes average given what they pay him (and the fact they will have few undermarket assets in three years, in part due to the lack of firsts).

I wouldn't operate under the assumption the Russian is going to be elite day one. I think you go for it when you have an asset like Lundqvist.

In the near term while citing a Lundqvist window is bad business either way.

In comment 13369267 bigbluehoya said:

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In the near term while citing a Lundqvist window is bad business either way.

I don't agree. I think they blew their load too early with the MSL/Yandle trades. I think the time for urgency is the next three years.

that hurt us was Eric Staal and the 2nd rounders. How good would those look right now if we still had them? Staal was useless here and then he signs a decent contract and becomes close to what the Rangers thought they were getting.

saw yesterday that Callahan was declared out for the season, possibly needing hip surgery. 32 years old and is completely breaking down. Only in the 3rd season of a 6 year deal. That trade was worth it, if only to remove the temptation of giving Callahan that contract at the time.

While they do have a nice collection of young players, none of them are quite elite, and there's little coming up behind them. There are maybe 4 truly legit prospects in the system - Shesterkin, Gropp, Day, and Kovacs. Maybe Graves, too, although the write-ups I've seen on him vary wildly.

An undersized guy like that playing a reckless style like that was an excellent bet to age poorly.

by just how young the forward group is. Nash is the elder statesman in his early 30s. Even guys like Stepan and McDonagh on D are only around 26-27

In comment 13369279 Greg from LI said:

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An undersized guy like that playing a reckless style like that was an excellent bet to age poorly.

Good foresight with Callahan, so why didn't they see that with Girardi? Each guy played with that same style.

In comment 13369276 Greg from LI said:

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While they do have a nice collection of young players, none of them are quite elite, and there's little coming up behind them. There are maybe 4 truly legit prospects in the system - Shesterkin, Gropp, Day, and Kovacs. Maybe Graves, too, although the write-ups I've seen on him vary wildly.

That combination of factors makes me really not care about 2021-2024, frankly. I'm fine being bottom five then.

Kyle, I hate that thinking because it acts like management is dumb. They could have traded Callahan for picks.

and I am being somewhat facetious. But I'll stand by that trade. I don't think we go to the final without MSL. Sure we lost, but we took our shot and that team accomplished a whole lot

In comment 13369299 Kyle in NY said:

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and I am being somewhat facetious. But I'll stand by that trade. I don't think we go to the final without MSL. Sure we lost, but we took our shot and that team accomplished a whole lot

I agree we don't get there without MSL. But I also think he was a negative factor in the 2016 playoffs - maybe we beat TB if he didn't drag his line down every game.

but Buch could be elite. Kreider too. Miller could be a better Cally. Hayes could be Brad Richards (least likely of the 4). Mika is a really good player.

If one of the goalies pans out into a stud, then we have a decent chance of an extended window. We won a president's trophy with Hank, a UFA Gabby, and muckers (a 2nd line that was really an elite 3rd line, Richards). We won a playoff round with Hank, a 71 point Jagr and what (see link)?

Im not ready to write off the future. There are interesting permutations.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13369283 Kyle in NY said:

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In comment 13369279 Greg from LI said: Quote: An undersized guy like that playing a reckless style like that was an excellent bet to age poorly. Good foresight with Callahan, so why didn't they see that with Girardi? Each guy played with that same style.

I think they did. Girardi took less money and nota full term NMC, whereas Cally refused. I think the issue on Girardi is that the wheels fell off immediately, which was unexpected, and also they didnt realize that Strals was carrying Staal, statistically. I'd actually argue that they fell off before the extension kicked in. I thought he was terrible in that playoff run.

prior to him signing his contract, and it was the biggest reason why most of us wanted no part of him long-term. Not a huge guy, plays through a ton of injuries, blocks a ton of shots.....him declining drastically in a short time was not surprising.

Sure, I think there are scenarios for upside post-Lundqvist. Maybe we get two elite goalies from the system, trade one for a great player, etc.

I just think you maximize your chances with what you've got when it's an asset like Lundqvist. I kind of feel the same way about NYG and Eli, and I think Lundqvist is better at his position than Eli is.

I'm willing to rob Peter to pay Paul at this point in time because I think Lundqvist enhances the chances of winning a Cup so significantly. I really wasn't a fan of trading firsts back in 14/15.

We had Sean Avery! Actually look at the Corsi/Fenwick numbers on that team. Pretty good.

I enjoyed those Jagr teams simply because I stared following the team in the late 90s and went through 5-6 seasons before I even saw them make the playoffs. Just to win a round back then was great to me.

Pirri in tonight, Buchnevich back to bench.

Jesus fucking Christ, AV

with Pirri. Not holding my breath

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