NFT: Knicks Chat 2/24

that the PG situation would be unclear over the next few years if Rose walks. Why not sign tyreke evans to like a 2 year $16M deal? Can continue to tank for another season or two without splurging on one of the bigger names.

In comment 13370383 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

that the PG situation would be unclear over the next few years if Rose walks. Why not sign tyreke evans to like a 2 year $16M deal? Can continue to tank for another season or two without splurging on one of the bigger names.

I talk about this in a lot of threads when it comes to free agency. Pointing out specific players is a dangerous. Could they sign Evans? Sure. Does Evans want to be part of Knick culture? Huge question. One of the problems with going into free agency is that you have to decide whether or not a guy wants to sign with a losing franchise or do you want to overpay him....

In comment 13370389 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 13370383 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: that the PG situation would be unclear over the next few years if Rose walks. Why not sign tyreke evans to like a 2 year $16M deal? Can continue to tank for another season or two without splurging on one of the bigger names. I talk about this in a lot of threads when it comes to free agency. Pointing out specific players is a dangerous. Could they sign Evans? Sure. Does Evans want to be part of Knick culture? Huge question. One of the problems with going into free agency is that you have to decide whether or not a guy wants to sign with a losing franchise or do you want to overpay him....

That's true, but evans has had a couple of rough years with injuries, so I was thinking he might be a guy better teams avoid. Maybe give him a 1 year deal and the starting job for him to go back into the following year and cash in. But I guess he'd be a nice backup on a lot of teams and he could be getting a decent offer regardless.

In comment 13370401 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13370389 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 13370383 giantsfan44ab said: He can't play point. That's the last guy I want on this team. Quote: that the PG situation would be unclear over the next few years if Rose walks. Why not sign tyreke evans to like a 2 year $16M deal? Can continue to tank for another season or two without splurging on one of the bigger names. I talk about this in a lot of threads when it comes to free agency. Pointing out specific players is a dangerous. Could they sign Evans? Sure. Does Evans want to be part of Knick culture? Huge question. One of the problems with going into free agency is that you have to decide whether or not a guy wants to sign with a losing franchise or do you want to overpay him.... That's true, but evans has had a couple of rough years with injuries, so I was thinking he might be a guy better teams avoid. Maybe give him a 1 year deal and the starting job for him to go back into the following year and cash in. But I guess he'd be a nice backup on a lot of teams and he could be getting a decent offer regardless.

Sixers announced Simmons will not play this season. Bone scan showed foot hasn't fully healed.

In comment 13370437 Stu11 said:

Quote:

Sixers announced Simmons will not play this season. Bone scan showed foot hasn't fully healed.

This was pretty much expected. If he and Embiid dont get healthy quickly, their franchise will be irrelevant.

In comment 13370438 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 13370437 Stu11 said: Quote: Sixers announced Simmons will not play this season. Bone scan showed foot hasn't fully healed. This was pretty much expected. If he and Embiid dont get healthy quickly, their franchise will be irrelevant.

Unless they land Tatum and ball in this draft.

Pat Riley , Danny Ainge, Masai Ujirri, Daryl Morey and plenty more GMs/ Presidents spoke to the media yesterday. Phil Jackson-the highest paid in the league- refuses to address the media. Hasn't spoken to the fans all season aside from a few tweets.

I remember when he was hired everyone was comparing him to Pat Riley in Miami. What has he done that even remotely resembles Pat Riley? I don't understand how any fan can support this guy anymore.

was drafting wade that simple, phil has the same chance with kp, build a team around him..

because we aren't privy to the talks and we don't know what was offered. However I think its safe to say 3 years in that this has been pretty much an unmitigated disaster. One break I'll give Phil is that 2 of his 3 off seasons he had no #1 pick which is a huge handicap to a re-building team, and the one he had he nailed. However the most important thing he was brought here to do was restore relevance to the organization. Not only has he literally achieved zero success on the court, we are now a laughing stock once again. Not only are free agents laughing at us, they have been outright critical of how we do things (Draymond Green last week). So we have become a joke AND a Pariah at the same time. Man that is hard to achieve. I'll give him that he has done the bare minimum of not hurting the future through dealing picks, and has kept us in good cap shape but that is simply not enough. He was brought here to change this whole thing around and in 3 years he has possibly made it worse. I say cut the chord now and find a young hungry GM who will be attracted by the roster flexibility and picks. Someone who can think outside the box.

and see if he can build around kp...

knicks could have a yoing fun team next year rather quickly

In comment 13370499 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

was drafting wade that simple, phil has the same chance with kp, build a team around him..

At the same point in Wades career KP is in now, he was about to win a championship.

In comment 13370513 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

In comment 13370499 nygiants16 said: Quote: was drafting wade that simple, phil has the same chance with kp, build a team around him.. At the same point in Wades career KP is in now, he was about to win a championship.

wade was almost 25 years old when he won a championship and he was surrounded by vets and one hall of famer

.

on Riley.

You don't want to give him credit for clearing space to sign Lebron and Bosh fine. N

No wade, bosh or lebron and he is pretty likely to still field a playoff roster with Dion Waiters as part of his new "Big Three". Just think about that.

In comment 13370513 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

At the same point in Wades career KP is in now, he was about to win a championship.

Shaq kind of had a role in that, no?

In comment 13370521 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

on Riley. You don't want to give him credit for clearing space to sign Lebron and Bosh fine. N No wade, bosh or lebron and he is pretty likely to still field a playoff roster with Dion Waiters as part of his new "Big Three". Just think about that.

he cleared the space but he had nothing to do with bosh and lebron coming to miami..

Smart post Stu....

Riley's Wade pick was obviously a home run but he's installed a great winning culture in Miami. Also developed a great coach who gets his teams to play good defense and run smart offense. It's a franchise players are attracted to and want to sign with.

What has Jackson done to improve the Knicks culture? As the foremost expert on basketball coaching( Charley Rosens words) what has he contributed to provide superior coaching ?

He nailed the Porzingis pick and no one can take that away from him. I don't care about the rumored trading back or that he "fell in the knicks lap". But naming one other positive move is hard to come by. And positive move, not neutral like not trading away picks.

Do you really want this guy overseeing another offseason? I'd fire him and bring in someone else. Throw big money at the top guys and see if they bite ( Buford, Urijji, Presti, Olshey). If not Hinkie is available.. Or sign a top assistant GM - Mike Zarren from Boston, Troy Weaver from OKC.

I hear Woj speak about it recently. The Knicks have limitless resources and are an attractive job- especially with Porzingis. He's not sure if the top guys would go, he just doesn't understand why they have never been pursued.

In comment 13370521 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

on Riley.

Because we despise the Rat.

In comment 13370521 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

on Riley. You don't want to give him credit for clearing space to sign Lebron and Bosh fine. N No wade, bosh or lebron and he is pretty likely to still field a playoff roster with Dion Waiters as part of his new "Big Three". Just think about that.

i give him a ton of credit for drafting wade when everyone thiught he should draft kaman and i give him credit for getting shaq..

i also give him credit for going to the bench and putting all the heat on him to deliver, if he didnt the nba would of killed him for pushing out svq...

i also give him a ton of credit for grooming spoelstra who is a hell of a coach..

In comment 13370527 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13370521 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: on Riley. You don't want to give him credit for clearing space to sign Lebron and Bosh fine. N No wade, bosh or lebron and he is pretty likely to still field a playoff roster with Dion Waiters as part of his new "Big Three". Just think about that. he cleared the space but he had nothing to do with bosh and lebron coming to miami..

Well clearing the space for 3 max guys made that possible. And if you don't think Riley and the franchise he built in Miami had anything to do with their decision to sign there, then go listen to Wade on Woj's podcast. Layed it all out there. Pretty much said they considered New York the city as great but couldn't trust the leadership there to sign there.

handle draft night. Fire him after the 60th pick.

In comment 13370540 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

In comment 13370527 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13370521 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: on Riley. You don't want to give him credit for clearing space to sign Lebron and Bosh fine. N No wade, bosh or lebron and he is pretty likely to still field a playoff roster with Dion Waiters as part of his new "Big Three". Just think about that. he cleared the space but he had nothing to do with bosh and lebron coming to miami.. Well clearing the space for 3 max guys made that possible. And if you don't think Riley and the franchise he built in Miami had anything to do with their decision to sign there, then go listen to Wade on Woj's podcast. Layed it all out there. Pretty much said they considered New York the city as great but couldn't trust the leadership there to sign there.

walsh also couldnt clear the cap space

Just to rid ourselves of Noah. If we are rebuilding then break it down.

In comment 13370583 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

Just to rid ourselves of Noah. If we are rebuilding then break it down.

Would have had to give up a lot more than KOQ. Noah might be the most difficult contract in the NBA to trade right now.

Noah's deal. I don't mind being financially constrained in a market where Jeff Teague will be getting a 5 years $130M contract. It probably won't even hamstring us from signing whoever we are going to sign anyways. I'm not on the optimist side of the whole phil debate but I think I trust him enough to sign someone like Collison, Lawson, or Rodriguez on like a 2 year deal. Maybe even just bring back Jennings as a starter for another year or two.

in Chicago tonight. Should start for the rest of the year with no Taj now.

In comment 13370630 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

Noah's deal. I don't mind being financially constrained in a market where Jeff Teague will be getting a 5 years $130M contract. It probably won't even hamstring us from signing whoever we are going to sign anyways. I'm not on the optimist side of the whole phil debate but I think I trust him enough to sign someone like Collison, Lawson, or Rodriguez on like a 2 year deal. Maybe even just bring back Jennings as a starter for another year or two.

I'd be fine with signing Jennings on the cheap and hopefully drafting a point guard. Would be nice to have some sort of continuity on the roster.

.

In comment 13370660 adamg said:

Quote:

.

If he can't shoot anymore than yeah 100%. Saving grace that good year he had under SVG was that he peaked as a passer and shooter. With his shot gone he's a poor mans Ricky Rubio.

As the starting PG on a 2 year deal imo.

He's good for Porz

as the PG combo next year.

Anthony told reporters he doesn’t understand management’s vision.
From ESPN’s Ian Begley:
“No, not now. No, to be honest with you,” Anthony said late Thursday night. “I think they were kind of planning on the trade deadline, whether they were trying to make moves. I think that was one plan. Now they’ve got to get back to the drawing board and come up with another plan about the future of this team.”
…
Anthony said he had “no reaction” to the team’s lack of moves but acknowledged that it is frustrating to be unsure of the approach that management, namely team president Phil Jackson, will take with the team at this point.
“Yeah, I mean, nobody likes to be in limbo,” Anthony said. “We all want to know kind of what’s going on, especially when it’s involving you. But that’s not the way it is in sports. I don’t think I’m the only one that’s going through that or feeling that way. I think there’s other players who feel the same way, that they want to be involved -- not involved, but at least up to date with what’s going on. I feel like I’m kind of up to date as far as when it comes to me what’s going on.”

is to wait for you to finally get the fuck out of here, then build this thing the proper way. Feel free to leave any time...

In comment 13370804 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Anthony told reporters he doesn’t understand management’s vision. From ESPN’s Ian Begley: “No, not now. No, to be honest with you,” Anthony said late Thursday night. “I think they were kind of planning on the trade deadline, whether they were trying to make moves. I think that was one plan. Now they’ve got to get back to the drawing board and come up with another plan about the future of this team.” … Anthony said he had “no reaction” to the team’s lack of moves but acknowledged that it is frustrating to be unsure of the approach that management, namely team president Phil Jackson, will take with the team at this point. “Yeah, I mean, nobody likes to be in limbo,” Anthony said. “We all want to know kind of what’s going on, especially when it’s involving you. But that’s not the way it is in sports. I don’t think I’m the only one that’s going through that or feeling that way. I think there’s other players who feel the same way, that they want to be involved -- not involved, but at least up to date with what’s going on. I feel like I’m kind of up to date as far as when it comes to me what’s going on.”

Another indication of how shitty Phil is at his job.

In comment 13370861 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

is to wait for you to finally get the fuck out of here, then build this thing the proper way. Feel free to leave any time...

Literally everyone recognizes this except for him (and apparently a few people on BBI). I like Melo, but neither seeing the bigger picture or introspection have been his strong suits.

I think it's fair to assume he just doesn't give a shit about winning and prefers to have an extra six weeks or so of vacation time every spring. I know we all hate Stephen A. Smith, but he speaks directly to Melo and is certain he'll be dealt this summer. Let's hope.

I still think it's going to be difficult to move him in the summer. Clippers are definitely a possibility but what are you receiving for him? Crawford and Rivers? If they resign Griffin, do they even want a frontline of Melo, Griffin and Jordan. Melo should be really be playing the 4. The Lakers? Cavs? The Clippers are the only realistic option. I guess you have to hope Lebron loses and wants Melo. Or maybe Magic and the Lakers get George and want another vet to win now. Pretty bleak for Melo.

that Melo should be open to moving on, but I also see his point of view. Why should he disrupt his life and family just because Phil sucks at his job? Melo has outlasted several regimes and coaches. In his mind, he likely thinks it's only a matter of time before Phil is gone like those before him.

It's not necessarily his responsibility to try and follow along with the machinations of the zen master.

see Rose thinks abandoning his team is a joke.

Before and after talking to reporters, Derrick Rose said he had to go to catch a flight to Chicago. A Knicks spokesperson said Rose was joking and was not flying to Chicago. Rose missed a game against New Orleans on Jan. 9 when he went to Chicago for a family issue but did not tell the Knicks. He was fined by the team.

Ohm Youngmisuk, ESPN Staff Writer

Team.

In comment 13370881 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

I still think it's going to be difficult to move him in the summer. Clippers are definitely a possibility but what are you receiving for him? Crawford and Rivers? If they resign Griffin, do they even want a frontline of Melo, Griffin and Jordan. Melo should be really be playing the 4. The Lakers? Cavs? The Clippers are the only realistic option. I guess you have to hope Lebron loses and wants Melo. Or maybe Magic and the Lakers get George and want another vet to win now. Pretty bleak for Melo.

I dont think he ever ruled out the Lakers, it is more that they are trying to keep their pick so why add melo for no reason. I think they become a realistic option in the offseason, especially if they keep their pick as their pick will be unprotected the following year.

In that case, we would have to root for the Lakers to get a top 3 pick this year. Then getting Melo would be a move to lure Paul George the following year.

I'm not sure what we would get in return from the Lakers to be honest. I guess Larry Nance, maybe we can hope for Jordan Clarkson? The main issue is going to be salary for the Lakers.

If you assume Randle will be getting a near-max contract, they probably won't even have enough to give PG a max deal. And if they hit their pick they are ending up with Ball, Fultz or Smith most likely. Then they have to figure out what to do with Russell, Ingram and Clarkson a SG if they are locked in on PG at SF.

Maybe Phil can convince them that Russell would be the odd man out if thats the case and send us Deng and Russell for Melo to clear space. They can then package Randle and Zubac to get an upgrade at center (maybe Drummond)?

So hypothetically, the Lakers could be looking at a lineup of:

Ball
Ingram/Clarkson
Paul George
Melo
Drummond

Not a shabby team for Magic Johnson to end up with after 1 year on the job. I'd hate to root for the Lakers but they could give up something of value to clear salary cap space for PG.

In comment 13370888 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

see Rose thinks abandoning his team is a joke. Before and after talking to reporters, Derrick Rose said he had to go to catch a flight to Chicago. A Knicks spokesperson said Rose was joking and was not flying to Chicago. Rose missed a game against New Orleans on Jan. 9 when he went to Chicago for a family issue but did not tell the Knicks. He was fined by the team. Ohm Youngmisuk, ESPN Staff Writer

The funniest part of it is picturing a spokesperson explain the joke to the reporters. I can't imagine Rose pulling of sarcasm all that well.

In comment 13370888 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

see Rose thinks abandoning his team is a joke. Before and after talking to reporters, Derrick Rose said he had to go to catch a flight to Chicago. A Knicks spokesperson said Rose was joking and was not flying to Chicago. Rose missed a game against New Orleans on Jan. 9 when he went to Chicago for a family issue but did not tell the Knicks. He was fined by the team. Ohm Youngmisuk, ESPN Staff Writer

How do the other players respect the Knicks hierarchy after he went AWOL and went unpunished. Truly pathetic. Should have been cut then and should cut his ass now for joking about it.

does phil tell melo the knicks are rebuilding or does he try again to build around melo?


if phil tells melo they are rebuilding and are going to trade him i think people will get behind phil..

if he tells him hey we are going to try one more time buildimg around him i will be out with pitchforks like evryone else

In comment 13370891 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

Team.

I guarantee you that the FA market for Rose will not be friendly to him. He's 100% taking a huge pay cut.

rose gets bought out or straigh cut..

melo should be told they are rebuilding they are going to cut his minutes, if he wants to stay next year fine otherwise they will trade him

I don't mind the Knicks passing on the Rubio deal, but I was already celebrating not having to see Rose in a Knicks uniform ever again. Now we're stuck with him for 24 more games.

In comment 13370906 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

I don't mind the Knicks passing on the Rubio deal, but I was already celebrating not having to see Rose in a Knicks uniform ever again. Now we're stuck with him for 24 more games.

my hope is knicks are smart of to seee they can have a fun young team to root for if they just commit to it...

i dont mind keeping lee and noah, they can be vets on the team full of young guys, noah could be a good influencr on hernangonez and kp

In comment 13370906 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

I don't mind the Knicks passing on the Rubio deal, but I was already celebrating not having to see Rose in a Knicks uniform ever again. Now we're stuck with him for 24 more games.

This

In comment 13370902 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

In comment 13370891 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: Team. I guarantee you that the FA market for Rose will not be friendly to him. He's 100% taking a huge pay cut.

Yeah, but he'll still get away happy. He won't get a big contract but his play and behavior tells me he's already accepted that.

Im really not so sure. We all want to rebuild. Has anyone heard Phil or Dolan say we will rebuild?

How much more evidence do we need that he's not driven to chase championships. Him signing his second contract with the Knicks should have been proof enough for everyone.

and bulls offered you butler, do you do it?

or do you draft ball or fulz and eatch them grow with kp?

In comment 13370977 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

How much more evidence do we need that he's not driven to chase championships. Him signing his second contract with the Knicks should have been proof enough for everyone.

i think he wanted the knicks to make a win now trade and they did not do it and now he is frustrated...

i think he is starting to feel like the knicks want to build around kp and not him, which they should now..

sorry melo knicks tried these past 2 years, didnt work time to work with the youth and build..

In comment 13370962 Deej said:

Quote:

Im really not so sure. We all want to rebuild. Has anyone heard Phil or Dolan say we will rebuild?

Unfortunately, we haven't heard Phil say anything at all. Which is a joke. Im not sure how accurate it is, but some chick on ESPN the other day said something about Phil not meeting with the press since November.

Dude has the best job on the planet. He could leave the country for a year and nobody would know. And Dolan said that he absolutely will not opt out of Phil's contract, no matter what happens. Whether he's good or bad. Because hes trying to give any potential GMs in the future a sense of security with the job.

Remember how many years Layden and Thomas got. When he likes you, you're dug in safely.

The only guy he was happy to run off asap was the guy he didn't really want to hire and probably wasn't buddy-buddy with, Walsh.

Dolan and Phil have probably already been on a peyote and muddy waters trip or two.

In comment 13370906 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

I don't mind the Knicks passing on the Rubio deal, but I was already celebrating not having to see Rose in a Knicks uniform ever again. Now we're stuck with him for 24 more games.

That's how I felt too. Couldn't blame the Knicks but was curious to see Rubio and elated at the prospects of jettisoning rose.

a Brad Stevens?

and phoenix is winning would be big for the tank

..

In comment 13371040 bigbluehoya said:

Quote:

a Brad Stevens?

Brad Stevens wouldn't win here either. No coach would actually be allowed to run the basketball portion of the franchise with this clown show.

over Shaq making fun of Javale McGee on his TNT segment

"Javale works extremely hard, has come in here and done extremely well as a player. He only wants to be respected like anyone else. I understand that Shaq works for a company that wants him to do that kind of stuff, make fun of players. It's cool, it's funny, but when you keep doing it time and time again, a guy actually disagrees with you and you threaten him. I didn't know cops could threaten civilians like that. It's definitely childish. But that's what they want from these stars and these retired players is to feud with the guy who's playing now and make arguments and disagreements. If I was Javale I'd feel the same way. It's childish."

Then Durant goes in on Shaq as a player:

"It is, it is. Shaq wants to make a joke about it. But if it was him in that position, he'd feel the same way. We wouldn't call him a bum and all this because he's such a great player obviously. But still, everyone can't be Shaq. He's trying to make his money and enjoy the game of basketball and the perception of him now is that he's a dumb player because he makes mistakes out there on the court. Shaq was a shitty free throw shooter, he missed dunks, he couldn't shoot outside the paint. He was bigger than everyone, didn't have no skill, bigger and stronger than everyone. Still a great player, but you had your flaws as a player and you played on five or six teams too. So it's not like he's some perfect center. You had your flaws too. I didn't know cops could go on twitter and threaten civilians like that. I'm glad Javale challenged him."

Then Shaq goes after Durant:

Tells Durant to mind his business, this isn't for him. I understand you're sticking up for your teammate but your boy Javale McGee is still a bum. He started it and I'm going to finish it...

I think it's a little ridiculous from Shaq to be perfectly honest

Knicks in 8th. Have game out of 5th.

Half

In comment 13371067 dpinzow said:

Quote:

"Javale works extremely hard, has come in here and done extremely well as a player. He only wants to be respected like anyone else. I understand that Shaq works for a company that wants him to do that kind of stuff, make fun of players. It's cool, it's funny, but when you keep doing it time and time again, a guy actually disagrees with you and you threaten him. I didn't know cops could threaten civilians like that. It's definitely childish. But that's what they want from these stars and these retired players is to feud with the guy who's playing now and make arguments and disagreements. If I was Javale I'd feel the same way. It's childish." Then Durant goes in on Shaq as a player: "It is, it is. Shaq wants to make a joke about it. But if it was him in that position, he'd feel the same way. We wouldn't call him a bum and all this because he's such a great player obviously. But still, everyone can't be Shaq. He's trying to make his money and enjoy the game of basketball and the perception of him now is that he's a dumb player because he makes mistakes out there on the court. Shaq was a shitty free throw shooter, he missed dunks, he couldn't shoot outside the paint. He was bigger than everyone, didn't have no skill, bigger and stronger than everyone. Still a great player, but you had your flaws as a player and you played on five or six teams too. So it's not like he's some perfect center. You had your flaws too. I didn't know cops could go on twitter and threaten civilians like that. I'm glad Javale challenged him." Then Shaq goes after Durant: Tells Durant to mind his business, this isn't for him. I understand you're sticking up for your teammate but your boy Javale McGee is still a bum. He started it and I'm going to finish it... I think it's a little ridiculous from Shaq to be perfectly honest

Maybe Durant should win something before he starts criticizing what Shaq did during his time in the league. During his prime he was one of the most dominant forces the NBA has ever seen.

In comment 13371070 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

Knicks in 8th. Have game out of 5th.

Yup. Would be a shame if philly and dallas won today.

that durant is now a champion and should be mentioned with the greats, he ring xhased in the prime of his career, which he has every right to do, but he should never be mentioned with any of the greats when it comes to championships...

In comment 13371136 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

that durant is now a champion and should be mentioned with the greats, he ring xhased in the prime of his career, which he has every right to do, but he should never be mentioned with any of the greats when it comes to championships...

You don't have to convince me to hate on Durant, but when it's said and done I don't think I can name more than 10-15 players I'd take over him. His only real flaw is that he's not as good of a passer as Lebron. Not even sure that can be a real flaw.

I don't think how he got one matters. It's not as if this would be the only time he's gotten to the finals.

It would be like saying Ewing wasn't an all time great.

KG in Boston and Lebron in Miami. Now 5 years later it's hard to find people who don't think Lebron is one of the best to ever do it, likely 2nd best of all time. If the Warriors win like 3 or 4 straight I think there will be a legitimate argument for KD over Kobe (for non-Lakers fans). Sure, right now it's ludicrous to make that case based on career achievements right now, but if you talk about a rim protector who knocks down 3s at a 40% clip and facilitates an offense its hard to draw many comps. You're in Lebron/micha territory at that point.

i look at it like this, would james be looked at as one of the greatest ever without the rings?

that is my point, durant is a hell of a player but i dont want his championship they win this year to be talked aboit as a reason why

In comment 13371166 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

i look at it like this, would james be looked at as one of the greatest ever without the rings? that is my point, durant is a hell of a player but i dont want his championship they win this year to be talked aboit as a reason why

And my point is that is an overreaction. Everyone was saying the same exact thing when Lebron went to Miami. If he wins one ring in GS and thats it, that would be a disappointment. But if he wins the next 3-4 he will be talked about as the best player on the greatest team ever assembled. The narrative would change dramatically if that happened.

In comment 13371172 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13371166 nygiants16 said: Quote: i look at it like this, would james be looked at as one of the greatest ever without the rings? that is my point, durant is a hell of a player but i dont want his championship they win this year to be talked aboit as a reason why And my point is that is an overreaction. Everyone was saying the same exact thing when Lebron went to Miami. If he wins one ring in GS and thats it, that would be a disappointment. But if he wins the next 3-4 he will be talked about as the best player on the greatest team ever assembled. The narrative would change dramatically if that happened.

it changed for lebron because people realized how much he carried that team..

without bron they do not win titles, without durant the warriors are still goimg to win 1 or 2 titles...

In comment 13371147 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13371136 nygiants16 said: Quote: that durant is now a champion and should be mentioned with the greats, he ring xhased in the prime of his career, which he has every right to do, but he should never be mentioned with any of the greats when it comes to championships... You don't have to convince me to hate on Durant, but when it's said and done I don't think I can name more than 10-15 players I'd take over him. His only real flaw is that he's not as good of a passer as Lebron. Not even sure that can be a real flaw.

Agreed that when it's all said and done that Durant will be considered one of the top 10-20 players of all time, but one of the 10 or so guys I would absolutely put ahead of him is Shaq. Just rubs me the wrong way to see him call a guy that has won more, and was a more dominant player than him, "unskilled." Like really? You're going to try to talk down on Shaq because he made fun of Javale McGee in a TV segment?

In comment 13371176 Lopes1984 said:

Quote:

In comment 13371147 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: In comment 13371136 nygiants16 said: Quote: that durant is now a champion and should be mentioned with the greats, he ring xhased in the prime of his career, which he has every right to do, but he should never be mentioned with any of the greats when it comes to championships... You don't have to convince me to hate on Durant, but when it's said and done I don't think I can name more than 10-15 players I'd take over him. His only real flaw is that he's not as good of a passer as Lebron. Not even sure that can be a real flaw. Agreed that when it's all said and done that Durant will be considered one of the top 10-20 players of all time, but one of the 10 or so guys I would absolutely put ahead of him is Shaq. Just rubs me the wrong way to see him call a guy that has won more, and was a more dominant player than him, "unskilled." Like really? You're going to try to talk down on Shaq because he made fun of Javale McGee in a TV segment?

I don't know if this is contrarian but I consider Shaq ahead of Kobe and Duncan. I dont care if it was size or skill, whatever Shaq was, was unstoppable.

And its funny KD is calling out Shaq for being unskilled while Javale Mcgee might actually be the ultimate combination of size and sheer athleticism that's been in the NBA maybe ever and has had a hard time sticking on a roster.

In comment 13371174 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13371172 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: In comment 13371166 nygiants16 said: Quote: i look at it like this, would james be looked at as one of the greatest ever without the rings? that is my point, durant is a hell of a player but i dont want his championship they win this year to be talked aboit as a reason why And my point is that is an overreaction. Everyone was saying the same exact thing when Lebron went to Miami. If he wins one ring in GS and thats it, that would be a disappointment. But if he wins the next 3-4 he will be talked about as the best player on the greatest team ever assembled. The narrative would change dramatically if that happened. it changed for lebron because people realized how much he carried that team.. without bron they do not win titles, without durant the warriors are still goimg to win 1 or 2 titles...

Not sure if thats a certainty. And there is a difference between winning 1 title and 3/4-peating. too early to say that about the Warriors but the potential for that is there. And if that happens, the narrative will certainly change for KD.

there's a really good shot the Knicks end up in 5th. That would be huge, as I think there's a pretty decent drop off after Fultz/Ball/Jackson/Tatum/Smith.

In comment 13371190 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

there's a really good shot the Knicks end up in 5th. That would be huge, as I think there's a pretty decent drop off after Fultz/Ball/Jackson/Tatum/Smith.

I'd toss in Isaac into that group but I agree with your premise. I think top 6 is a priority, will have options if within the top 5 though.

But when KP came out it was a 3 person draft and we picked 4th. You just have to do your homework.

In comment 13371289 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

But when KP came out it was a 3 person draft and we picked 4th. You just have to do your homework.

no everyobe said it was a 4 person draft begore lotto night, then knicks got 4 and it became a 3 person draft...

i remember woj saying how it was a deep draft and he saw 4 top guys, then all of sudden he switxhed to it is a 3 person draft and the knicks are tradong out

You could be right. I really remember draft night and lottery day (the expression) when we got the 4th pick. I don't remember much leading up to the draft other than Muiday being called for by some.

But boy he heats up like no one else in college ball.

In comment 13371358 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

But boy he heats up like no one else in college ball.

i think he would be a perfect 6th man on a contending team..

knicks are going to draft a player at a position other than pg and bring back this entire team

In comment 13371360 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13371358 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: But boy he heats up like no one else in college ball. i think he would be a perfect 6th man on a contending team..

That's selling him short. He can average 25 ppg in the NBA. He's not a primary playmaker. Has sixers written all over him.

In comment 13371362 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

knicks are going to draft a player at a position other than pg and bring back this entire team

They're going to draft lauri markannen

In comment 13371362 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

knicks are going to draft a player at a position other than pg and bring back this entire team

To be fair, it's not like big name draft PGs always work out. A lot of people loved Mudiay and Russell.

In comment 13371384 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 13371362 nygiants16 said: Quote: knicks are going to draft a player at a position other than pg and bring back this entire team To be fair, it's not like big name draft PGs always work out. A lot of people loved Mudiay and Russell.

i loved mudiay, hated russell

Never thought he'd be a PG. But Booker should've been the top guard taken

the Knicks should take Booker during a pre-draft show, and thinking he was just being a troll. I'm happy we got KP, but Jalen was on to something.

in the draft is Frank Ntikilita. Could easily see Phil being enamored with the passing ability and length. He's always loved big PGs

tanking purposes.

I like the Knicks by double figures. Rose goes for 25 and 8. Hernangomez has 15/15.

He doesn't have the most well-rounded game, but he's a scoring machine who can get white hot and shoot the lights out.

In comment 13371489 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

He doesn't have the most well-rounded game, but he's a scoring machine who can get white hot and shoot the lights out.

isnt that the definition of a 6th man?

i see him as an eric gordon type, hopefully without the injuries

Melo's gonna cost us three draft slots as a nice parting gift.

In comment 13371496 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

Melo's gonna cost us three draft slots as a nice parting gift.

he's back on the baseline laying down, maybe taking a nap?

could put anyone to sleep...

In comment 13371499 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 13371496 bceagle05 said: Quote: Melo's gonna cost us three draft slots as a nice parting gift. he's back on the baseline laying down, maybe taking a nap?

he does the same thing every game..

..

They need to do it. Incredible player

Fuck

Very little chance of us losing this one. Melo's only missed one game this year - the game he sat out against Golden State. I'm not wishing injury on him, but missing a few games down the stretch would really help us.

aint afraid to shoot, huh?

trying to lose this game or he is just an idiot.

I dont care how well Holiday has been, he should have been subbed 5 minutes ago. Thomas and Holiday are just chucking now.

Holiday and Thomas have 9 of the last 11 shot attempts.

god is he awful

In comment 13371541 dep026 said:

Quote:

aint afraid to shoot, huh?

Lance Thomas gets the Knicks closer to the promised land with that turnover.

the worst player in the NBA. Its criminal seeing him in this game and getting the ball as much as he does.

Knicks problem starts with Hornacek first.

...

In comment 13371550 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

...

Same

This team never fails to piss me off. Not sure why I bother.

In comment 13371550 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

...

as much as i know tanking is the way to go, i cant get mad at wins...

when they lose i can see thr brightside but i cant root for losses

how a guy like Lance Thomas plays, yet alone in crunch time.

He isnt even a good defender.

Phil has really put together a shit team.

In comment 13371554 dep026 said:

Quote:

how a guy like Lance Thomas plays, yet alone in crunch time. He isnt even a good defender.

You had people on here saying how great of a signing that was by Phil Jackson. I couldn't believe that crap.

In comment 13371546 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

god is he awful

Lmao "tank commander"

That's awesome

With a good GM, Rose or Carmelo would not be on the Knicks right now. A high level GM would have a found a trade for Melo- even if it was the Clippers in a salary dump. Moving him was the way to go and he couldn't get it done.

As for Rose, he got lucky with Thibs wanting him. Rubio has plenty of flaws, but flipping Rose for
Rubio would have been productive for the long term. Instead Phil botched the negotiations.

Now the Knicks are playing out the string with Melo and Rose being good enough to beat shitty teams and lose to good ones. They'll probably end up picking in 10-12 range. When they should be trying to get to the top of the draft for a generational talent like Lonzo Ball, they are going the other way. What a distaster of a team.

In comment 13371783 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

With a good GM, Rose or Carmelo would not be on the Knicks right now. A high level GM would have a found a trade for Melo- even if it was the Clippers in a salary dump. Moving him was the way to go and he couldn't get it done. As for Rose, he got lucky with Thibs wanting him. Rubio has plenty of flaws, but flipping Rose for Rubio would have been productive for the long term. Instead Phil botched the negotiations. Now the Knicks are playing out the string with Melo and Rose being good enough to beat shitty teams and lose to good ones. They'll probably end up picking in 10-12 range. When they should be trying to get to the top of the draft for a generational talent like Lonzo Ball, they are going the other way. What a distaster of a team.

first off trading melo to the clippets would not of been a salary dump..

maybe you should go read the reports timberwolves said no not the knicks

In comment 13371784 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13371783 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: With a good GM, Rose or Carmelo would not be on the Knicks right now. A high level GM would have a found a trade for Melo- even if it was the Clippers in a salary dump. Moving him was the way to go and he couldn't get it done. As for Rose, he got lucky with Thibs wanting him. Rubio has plenty of flaws, but flipping Rose for Rubio would have been productive for the long term. Instead Phil botched the negotiations. Now the Knicks are playing out the string with Melo and Rose being good enough to beat shitty teams and lose to good ones. They'll probably end up picking in 10-12 range. When they should be trying to get to the top of the draft for a generational talent like Lonzo Ball, they are going the other way. What a distaster of a team. first off trading melo to the clippets would not of been a salary dump.. maybe you should go read the reports timberwolves said no not the knicks

I see the issue. You based all your info off final reports.

T-Wolves contacted the Knicks awhile ago. Jackson and Mills were adamant that the Knicks receive picks to come back with Rubio. This has been heavily reported throughout the process. At the 11th hour the Knicks said okay forget about the picks but the T-Wolves said forget it at that point.

So yes the Knicks did indeed by ALL ACCOUNTS blotched the Rose for Rubio deal.

In comment 13371802 Mason said:

Quote:

In comment 13371784 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13371783 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: With a good GM, Rose or Carmelo would not be on the Knicks right now. A high level GM would have a found a trade for Melo- even if it was the Clippers in a salary dump. Moving him was the way to go and he couldn't get it done. As for Rose, he got lucky with Thibs wanting him. Rubio has plenty of flaws, but flipping Rose for Rubio would have been productive for the long term. Instead Phil botched the negotiations. Now the Knicks are playing out the string with Melo and Rose being good enough to beat shitty teams and lose to good ones. They'll probably end up picking in 10-12 range. When they should be trying to get to the top of the draft for a generational talent like Lonzo Ball, they are going the other way. What a distaster of a team. first off trading melo to the clippets would not of been a salary dump.. maybe you should go read the reports timberwolves said no not the knicks I see the issue. You based all your info off final reports. T-Wolves contacted the Knicks awhile ago. Jackson and Mills were adamant that the Knicks receive picks to come back with Rubio. This has been heavily reported throughout the process. At the 11th hour the Knicks said okay forget about the picks but the T-Wolves said forget it at that point. So yes the Knicks did indeed by ALL ACCOUNTS blotched the Rose for Rubio deal.

I meant just dumping Melo to the Clippers for barely anything. Done correctly, Melo could have moved. Instead Phil pissed him off and complicated everything.

I'm basing it on all the reports I read and heard. If you can flip Rose for Rubio, you make it happen. You don't need them to include 2nd round pick or Bjelica.

I can't believe fans still defend this guy. He's been an outright failure.

that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard..

and marc stein said knicks went to wolves and said rubio for rose and they say no..

of course you ask for a pick or another player, you are the ones adding salary...

In comment 13371802 Mason said:

Quote:

In comment 13371784 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13371783 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: With a good GM, Rose or Carmelo would not be on the Knicks right now. A high level GM would have a found a trade for Melo- even if it was the Clippers in a salary dump. Moving him was the way to go and he couldn't get it done. As for Rose, he got lucky with Thibs wanting him. Rubio has plenty of flaws, but flipping Rose for Rubio would have been productive for the long term. Instead Phil botched the negotiations. Now the Knicks are playing out the string with Melo and Rose being good enough to beat shitty teams and lose to good ones. They'll probably end up picking in 10-12 range. When they should be trying to get to the top of the draft for a generational talent like Lonzo Ball, they are going the other way. What a distaster of a team. first off trading melo to the clippets would not of been a salary dump.. maybe you should go read the reports timberwolves said no not the knicks I see the issue. You based all your info off final reports. T-Wolves contacted the Knicks awhile ago. Jackson and Mills were adamant that the Knicks receive picks to come back with Rubio. This has been heavily reported throughout the process. At the 11th hour the Knicks said okay forget about the picks but the T-Wolves said forget it at that point. So yes the Knicks did indeed by ALL ACCOUNTS blotched the Rose for Rubio deal.

why thr hell would you not ask for more? so in a negotiation you just take the first offer you can get?

knicks would of been adding salary of course you ask for a pick or a other player...

als if knicks would of made that trade and drafted a point guard, you and tyree would be the first ones complaining rubio is starting over the drafted point guards...

didn't realize NO outright released him. The Knicks should be all over a guy like that. I know we have a ton of FWD-C's but you add cheap young versatile players like that and let it sort itself out or use guys as trade chips this summer.

I hate what the Knicks do to us as fans. I was rooting for a Rubio trade because I fear we'll sign a free agent PG to a worse contract this summer. I'm rooting for losses because the draft is the only avenue we have to attract top talent. Can't we just operate like a normal franchise?

In comment 13371827 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard.. and marc stein said knicks went to wolves and said rubio for rose and they say no.. of course you ask for a pick or another player, you are the ones adding salary...

I would have traded Melo for that. Get Brice Johnson and a future pick. The value of moving Melo is not having him around to win games like last night. Getting a top 4 pick instead of one 9-13 is incredibly valuable. I don't see some great package the Knicks are getting in the offseason for him.

If you wanted Rubio, blowing up a trade over Bjelica or a 2nd round pick is stupid and shows Phil's ineptitude.

Please let me know a trade he has won in 3 years.