While there are quite a few defensive players I really like in this year's draft (DE Derek Barnett, OLB Tyus Bowser, and Safety Marcus Maye, to name three), I think it's imperative that the Giants come away with an offensive skill player or two who can contribute early and often. It looks to be a good draft for them, and my hope is that the Giants will address at least some of their offensive line woes in free agency and not force any OL picks because they failed to do that (yes, I'm still smarting over the Giants drafting Justin Pugh instead of Tyler Eifert).
With that in mind...
QB: As one pundit put it, this QB draft class is deep, even though there are no "elite" prospects. I tend to agree with that assessment. Still, if the Giants have the opportunity to draft one that they're pretty high on, I can see them pulling the trigger, but, personally, I hope they don't. I still have faith in Eli, and I think that the Giants would be better served - this year - in strengthening his supporting cast rather than looking for his replacement.
WR: If the Giants don't draft one in the first two rounds, I'll drive to East Rutherford and punch Jerry Reese in the head. Okay, not really, but I'll still be pissed. Although the odds are that they'll miss out on the top WR prospects, they should be able to draft one who would be an excellent compliment to OBJ and Shepard...and they desperately need that.
RB: I thought the Giants made a big mistake last year drafting Paul Perkins instead of Jordan Howard, but what's done is done. I suspect they figured to get a lot more out of Rashad Jennings (and Shane Vereen), and were a little scared of Howard's injury history. So be it. But now Jennings is gone and Vereen may be, too, so finding a good compliment to Perkins should be a priority, and may come earlier than most of us might expect, depending on how things shake out.
TE: It's certainly a good draft for them, but conventional wisdom says that Reese & Co. don't value the position that highly, at least where the draft is concerned. That's as may be (as the Brits say). If, by some chance, a top-tier prospect happened to fall to us (or at least get within trade-up striking distance) somewhere in the first two days, would Reese call his name? Only time will tell, but if the Giants fail to address the position in free agency, I can't believe they'll head into the 2017 season with only Tye, Adams, an LaCosse.
On to Indy!
A second tier WR is possible in FA.
I AM CALM, GOD DAMN IT! I'M SO FREAKING CALM, IT"S SCARY!
And while I'd welcome a weapon like a number of the TE/WR hybrids that are at the top of the TE position rankings, I also see value at all the skill positions from the 2nd through 4th as well that have potential to contribute this season and then get better.
The exception being QB, where I've got my eye set on a prospect coming out next year.
I'd say it's a safe bet that a WR is taken with one of their first 2 picks.
2. Donta Foreman
3. Zay Jones
Sign Zeitler
Sign Zeitler
Sign Zeitler
A second tier WR is possible in FA.
I would welcome Njoku, but I don't think he'll last until #23, especially not if he blows up the Combine as predicted,
UFA WRs are usually pretty expensive, and I don't want a lower-tiered WR in the Louis Murphy mold, either. I'd rather draft a kid like Chad Hansen or Josh Reynolds in, say, the 2nd round. Cost-controlled for a few years.
Eli's going to target Beckham for at least 25% of his passes (based on the last two seasons, 25% and 30%). Add in throws to Shepard, tight end and running back and I don't know if you have enough balls to keep to keep another expensive receiver happy.
Manningham was a good third receiver. Not a great player who commanded a big salary, but a legit deep threat and a guy who caught some clutch TD passes.
p.s.--After signing TE Jack Doyle in free agency.
But after that I believe like you, our resources should be to adding offensive help, as Jerry successfully did last year on D. As we all know we need 2 OLinemen minimum, but we need weapons. Reese has half the money to play with this year, vs. last. I, like you, would hate to see one of our top 3 picks used on a QB, when that asset could be used to help the best QB in Giant history, who isn’t done. I am a big proponent of Eli. Blamed Gilbride for the low completion percent. In 2015, blamed wRong Way Reuben, for the interceptions. But last year, no time, and nobody open too often. He needs help. These top 2 touted TE’s remind me of Eric Ebron. I hope if one of them falls to us, I’m wrong. Where I differ, I think we have a better chance at a FA Wr, or later rounder. I would not be upset if we pulled the trigger on a RB in the first, (especially if we could fill at least one OL spot in free agency).
But I will add, where I also differ, but on the same point of the drafting of Pugh. As you point to Effect, I point to Kyle Long. Everybody said Pugh didn’t have the arms for Tackle. But Jerry forced it anyway. Converted him to Guard, as he should have been from the start. The next pick was Long, whose gone to 3 pro bowls, I think.
And your point is what, exactly? You should wait until the 6th round to draft a QB?
You watch games (or game film), you make your determinations, whether it's QBs or any other position.
No, I didn't miss the "Excellent analysis, Klaatu" part, so a belated Thank You for that.
However, the Pugh/Eifert thing is more than a mere sidebar (from my side, not yours). It should serve as a warning. If the Giants don't address their O-Line issues - even partially - before the draft begins, it will hamper their efforts to upgrade at the skill positions.
+1
The Giants likely see the need at TE, but they will see the need at WR as more deserving of premium resources....high draft picks or FA dollars.
As much as some here hate to hear it, a TE at the top or a high priced FA TE are very unlikely given the Giants tendencies.
If they have a WR and a TE with similar grades at 23 you can bet your ass they are going to take the WR.
Thank you so much for adding absolutely nothing constructive to the discussion. I'd hate to see you break your streak of pissing/moaning/whining/Reese-bashing.
But to invest a 1st round pick on a RB they need to address the OLine in FA.
With that fresh in our minds, it's time to do the same thing with the OLine. The good news is, it won't be nearly as expensive. I think we see the Giants move Flowers to RG - where his run blocking is a massive improvement to Jerry - and sign 2 Offensive Tackles (say Whitworth and Wagner). Easily affordable.
Whitworth - Pugh - Richburg - Flowers - Wagner
Go into the draft with your starting OLine set, and if a stud you really like is there (like Floyd for the DLine last year), take him. You will need a replacement for Whitworth soon enough.
And you're a gem of a poster. A one-trick-pony whose act is already stale.
But sincere thanks again for another post that adds absolutely nothing constructive to the discussion.
With that fresh in our minds, it's time to do the same thing with the OLine. The good news is, it won't be nearly as expensive. I think we see the Giants move Flowers to RG - where his run blocking is a massive improvement to Jerry - and sign 2 Offensive Tackles (say Whitworth and Wagner). Easily affordable.
Whitworth - Pugh - Richburg - Flowers - Wagner
Go into the draft with your starting OLine set, and if a stud you really like is there (like Floyd for the DLine last year), take him. You will need a replacement for Whitworth soon enough.
I like the idea of Wagner for RT. I am not sure they will move Flowers to RG. I think they start with adding a LT first, maybe Okung or a long shot in Whitworth. The reason I say long shot is the combination of his age, the fact that he wants to stay in Cincy and the cost associated with acquiring him. There is a better chance of Flowers staying at LT, us adding a RG and RT in FA/Draft.
The mission of 2017 should be "restore Eli" and step 1 is getting Flowers off his blind side. I'll be fascinated if we stay the course.
I think we're at the point we admit it's not working, and go in a new direction. Can't wait to find out.
The mission of 2017 should be "restore Eli" and step 1 is getting Flowers off his blind side. I'll be fascinated if we stay the course.
I think we're at the point we admit it's not working, and go in a new direction. Can't wait to find out.
I agree that Eli's internal clock is messed up, mainly due to pressure and yes Flowers is a part of the problem. I will also say that an effective running game will do wonders for our passing game and the line in general. We passed the ball twice as much as we passed which puts the amount of pass rush attempts of our opponent at a high level. The O Line as a whole is weak because of the inability to run the football. A strong RG, RT, TE along with Richburg, Pugh and Flowers would improve the unit which is just as important as adding a new LT.
With Will Johnson returning and Jerrell Adams coming in as the blocking TE, and hopefully a roiling TE like Njoku, we could be a proficient running team. It helps all fases of the game.
Wagner at RT, Warford at RG with Njoku at TE is what I would look to add this offseason.
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Rj, it's just my opinion of course, but I believe we hit our boiling point with Flowers last year. He showed no significant improvement culminating with a poor playoff game. Eli's mental clock is screwy.
The mission of 2017 should be "restore Eli" and step 1 is getting Flowers off his blind side. I'll be fascinated if we stay the course.
I think we're at the point we admit it's not working, and go in a new direction. Can't wait to find out.
I agree that Eli's internal clock is messed up, mainly due to pressure and yes Flowers is a part of the problem. I will also say that an effective running game will do wonders for our passing game and the line in general. We passed the ball twice as much as we passed which puts the amount of pass rush attempts of our opponent at a high level. The O Line as a whole is weak because of the inability to run the football. A strong RG, RT, TE along with Richburg, Pugh and Flowers would improve the unit which is just as important as adding a new LT.
With Will Johnson returning and Jerrell Adams coming in as the blocking TE, and hopefully a roiling TE like Njoku, we could be a proficient running team. It helps all fases of the game.
Wagner at RT, Warford at RG with Njoku at TE is what I would look to add this offseason.
Make that passed the ball twice as much as we ran the ball.
While watching multiple games of Foreman's on Draft Breakdown, he kept reminding me of someone I knew well; Foreman is a lesser Ron Dayne.
NOT FOR ANY REASON, PLEASE!!!
TE is strong with high end talent(2 probable 1st round picks) and good depth.
WR is weak at the top(possibly no Top 10 picks and only 3 1st round grades)) but has decent depth through the middle rounds.
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I really think you'll see what we did on the DLine last year, we do to the OLine this year. Once we realized our DLine was f#cked we signed 2 veteran studs to turn things around. And it worked slendidly.
With that fresh in our minds, it's time to do the same thing with the OLine. The good news is, it won't be nearly as expensive. I think we see the Giants move Flowers to RG - where his run blocking is a massive improvement to Jerry - and sign 2 Offensive Tackles (say Whitworth and Wagner). Easily affordable.
Whitworth - Pugh - Richburg - Flowers - Wagner
Go into the draft with your starting OLine set, and if a stud you really like is there (like Floyd for the DLine last year), take him. You will need a replacement for Whitworth soon enough.
I like the idea of Wagner for RT. I am not sure they will move Flowers to RG. I think they start with adding a LT first, maybe Okung or a long shot in Whitworth. The reason I say long shot is the combination of his age, the fact that he wants to stay in Cincy and the cost associated with acquiring him. There is a better chance of Flowers staying at LT, us adding a RG and RT in FA/Draft.
I wouldn't mind Flowers sticking at OLT and seeing how he develops if we signed Ricky Wagner and drafted Forrest Lamp or Taylor Moton in the second.
Those two moves alone would drastically improve our line play.
People crap on Flowers because he's a first rounder, but Hart was the worst tackle on our team last year. I like Hart, but when you're going to crap on a starting OL, you'd think you'd pick the worst one.
Well, hopefully we'll be able to address the offensive line, at least in part, in free agency. If we pull the trigger on an O-Lineman in the draft, so be it, but this class looks to be short on "plug and play" guys, so the odds are against a draftee having an immediate impact.
Regardless, we still need an infusion of talent at our offensive skill positions, and the odds are much better for rookie RBs, WRs, and TEs to make that immediate impact.
People crap on Flowers because he's a first rounder, but Hart was the worst tackle on our team last year.
You must admit, the expectations, are a little different between the 9th guy picked and the 226th guy picked....
Flowers is 22 years old. He played under two different coaches in two years.
People crap on Flowers because he's a first rounder, but Hart was the worst tackle on our team last year.
You must admit, the expectations, are a little different between the 9th guy picked and the 226th guy picked....
That's exactly what I said.
My point, though, is that expectations should take a back seat to actual performance when we're talking about improving the line.
1. RT is an easier position than LT based purely on the level of competition.
2. Flowers finished with 19.648 offensive snaps played per pressure allowed; Hart finished with 16.019 snaps per pressure allowed. So, the numbers don't agree with your post game analysis over a month outside of the season's end.
So, I don't get your attitude about that point. I like Hart as a leader. But, we're much better off with Flowers starting and Hart on the bench.