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Jints punishment for walkie talkie use too light?

Cruzin : 2/25/2017 12:45 pm
Frank Schwab from Yahoo Sports seems to think so.

When the NFL announced its compensatory picks on Friday, it also closed the book on the New York Giants illegally using walkie talkies during a win over the Dallas Cowboys last season.

And, it wasn’t much of a punishment. The Giants dropped 10 spots in the fourth round, from pick No. 130 to pick No. 140. That’s not nothing, but there’s also a pretty good chance it doesn’t hurt the Giants in the slightest.

We knew the punishment was going to be that the Giants slid to the back of the fourth round, but it’s still startling to see how little the Giants ended up getting docked.

The Patriots and quarterback Tom Brady were hammered in deflate-gate. The team was docked a first-round pick, and Brady was suspended four games. Even if the NFL had proof of what the Patriots did (Ted Wells’ report had flimsy circumstantial evidence at best), deflating footballs a little below the legal limit was still a misdemeanor at best. One rules violation is worth a first-round pick and a suspension for Brady that’s the same as a positive steroid test, and the other is worth a 10-pick drop in the fourth round? Huh.

It’s not just the Patriots who should raise an eyebrow. When the Atlanta Falcons were found to have pumped in crowd noise, they were fined $350,000 and stripped of a fifth-round pick. The Kansas City Chiefs had to give up a 2016 third-round draft pick and a 2017 sixth-round pick for tampering when they contacted then-free agent Jeremy Maclin before signing him. We can argue if those violations or deflate-gate are worse than New York’s illegal walkie talkie use, but they all feel like they’re in the same boat.


Giants owner John Mara and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell are close. Mara has defended and supported Goodell through his tenure. The Giants ended up with a light punishment over illegally using walkie talkies. A few fan bases have surely taken note of all that.

Lonk - ( New Window )
No idea how  
UConn4523 : 2/25/2017 12:55 pm : link
anyone can confuse the intent and pattern via the Brady texts with an on the fly decision that was nationally broadcasted which was addmitted to without any hassle.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/25/2017 1:16 pm : link
they used a walkie-talkie for five plays.
RE: ...  
Gmen24 : 2/25/2017 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13371233 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
they used a walkie-talkie for five plays.


That resulted in a punt IIRC.
Ask Redskins fans ...  
Crispino : 2/25/2017 1:29 pm : link
about it.
Then stand back and watch the fireworks.
RE: ...  
Eman11 : 2/25/2017 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13371233 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
they used a walkie-talkie for five plays.
p

Plus the way I understand it, the league found no evidence they planned in advance to use them or used them beyond the normal sideline/helmet 15 second communication cutoff.
It's not a small deal  
ThatLimerickGuy : 2/25/2017 1:31 pm : link
But it's not a big deal either.

Punishment fits the crime in my opinion.

And the author is kind of dumb when he says "we knew the Giants were going to be penalized in the fourth round" but then acts kind of surprised that the punishment was only moving them to the end of the 4th round after compensatory picks. What did he expect?
RE: Ask Redskins fans ...  
Klaatu : 2/25/2017 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13371246 Crispino said:
Quote:
about it.
Then stand back and watch the fireworks.




Off with their heads!
RE: ...  
McNally's_Nuts : 2/25/2017 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13371233 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
they used a walkie-talkie for five plays.


And none of those plays was "throw it to Odell"
RE: ...  
bluepepper : 2/25/2017 1:46 pm : link
Quote:
they used a walkie-talkie for five plays.

In legend, this will become the Giants used walkie talkies for the entire 2016 season and the league only moved them back 10 spots. Double standard!
The cover up  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2017 1:48 pm : link
is worse than the crime.
"Giants owner John Mara and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell are close."  
JohnB : 2/25/2017 2:11 pm : link
The theory that Goodell was going soft because they are friends doesn't hold water because Goodell and Pat's owner Robert Kraft are good friends and that didn't help the Pat's much.
The walkie Talkie drive  
Paulie Walnuts : 2/25/2017 2:13 pm : link
went no place
The fact the walkie talkie  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2017 2:19 pm : link
drive went nowhere is irrelevant just like the fact in the 2nd half of the 2014 AFC Championship game the Patriots outscored the Colts 28 - 0 with properly inflated footballs.

The Giants broke the rules. Stop. End of story.

The fact the Giants were forthcoming with the rule breaking were cooperative with the league investigation and the history of not intentionally skirting or breaking rules or cheating resulted in what the league determined to be an appropriate punishment.

RE: The fact the walkie talkie  
BigBlueShock : 2/25/2017 2:32 pm : link
In comment 13371277 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
drive went nowhere is irrelevant just like the fact in the 2nd half of the 2014 AFC Championship game the Patriots outscored the Colts 28 - 0 with properly inflated footballs.

The Giants broke the rules. Stop. End of story.

The fact the Giants were forthcoming with the rule breaking were cooperative with the league investigation and the history of not intentionally skirting or breaking rules or cheating resulted in what the league determined to be an appropriate punishment.

Or, like others said, it was five plays. Regardless of result of those five plays, it was five plays. If the Giants were secretly using some kind of communication on the field for as long as the Pats supposedly were deflating footballs, then got caught and lied about it, destroyed evidence and started publically criticizing Goodell about it, we are not having this conversation. Conversely, if the Pats used a deflated football for only five plays, then admitted it, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I am shocked that no one on the Giants  
St. Jimmy : 2/25/2017 2:51 pm : link
knew this was against the rules. You would think they had this planned out. They had to have the walkie talkies set up before hand. I guess no one thought to run it by the league.
RE: The fact the walkie talkie  
UConn4523 : 2/25/2017 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13371277 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
drive went nowhere is irrelevant just like the fact in the 2nd half of the 2014 AFC Championship game the Patriots outscored the Colts 28 - 0 with properly inflated footballs.

The Giants broke the rules. Stop. End of story.

The fact the Giants were forthcoming with the rule breaking were cooperative with the league investigation and the history of not intentionally skirting or breaking rules or cheating resulted in what the league determined to be an appropriate punishment.


It isn't just that. You have a franchise with a HC who's been caught in multiple acts of cheating and evidence of Brady deflating footballs in more games than just the Colts (unless you believe the texts were a 1 time thing and even stilll, prove planning and intent).

Planning to gain a competitive edge by breaking a rule, however dumb it may be, and breaking a rule on the fly due to an equipment malfunction are two flat out different scenarios.
Here's the thing,  
colin : 2/25/2017 2:57 pm : link
for the Pats, this was the 2nd time where they were caught trying to gain a competitive advantage, or so it appeared

The Giants shit broke.

Intent, multiple offenses, (in the playoffs and Super Bowl, no less) it's not even in the same ball park as the Patriots.

Even the Falcons were breaking the rules to gain a competitive advantage.

The Giants shit broke.
RE: RE: The fact the walkie talkie  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2017 2:58 pm : link
In comment 13371314 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13371277 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


drive went nowhere is irrelevant just like the fact in the 2nd half of the 2014 AFC Championship game the Patriots outscored the Colts 28 - 0 with properly inflated footballs.

The Giants broke the rules. Stop. End of story.

The fact the Giants were forthcoming with the rule breaking were cooperative with the league investigation and the history of not intentionally skirting or breaking rules or cheating resulted in what the league determined to be an appropriate punishment.




It isn't just that. You have a franchise with a HC who's been caught in multiple acts of cheating and evidence of Brady deflating footballs in more games than just the Colts (unless you believe the texts were a 1 time thing and even stilll, prove planning and intent).

Planning to gain a competitive edge by breaking a rule, however dumb it may be, and breaking a rule on the fly due to an equipment malfunction are two flat out different scenarios.


That's why I mentioned that the Giants didn't have a history of cheating/breaking rules.
This Boston journalist  
SHO'NUFF : 2/25/2017 3:57 pm : link
is claiming bloody murder... no surprise
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/02/24/roger-goodell-giants-walkie-talkie-punishment-unbelievable/ - ( New Window )
Has anyone answered the question as to whether  
SomeFan : 2/25/2017 5:16 pm : link
the Cowboys could still communicate and it was only the Giants' equipment that malfunctioned. That is the question to answer.
Well, I could see other fans saying  
SomeFan : 2/25/2017 5:19 pm : link
if the Giants could so cavalierly use a walkie-talkie during a game in front of the TV cameras, what are they doing when no one is looking. In thinking about it, our cheating was quick and seamless, albeit no impact on the game whatsoever.
RE: Has anyone answered the question as to whether  
pjcas18 : 2/25/2017 5:51 pm : link
In comment 13371409 SomeFan said:
Quote:
the Cowboys could still communicate and it was only the Giants' equipment that malfunctioned. That is the question to answer.


Cowboys equipment still worked, but it's irrelevant, the league run communications systems are shut off 15 seconds prior to play clock expiring. the walkies talkies cannot be disabled that same way.

If one teams coach to QB system stops working the other team does not need to stop using theirs.
Even the NFL realizes it is a ridiculous rule  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/25/2017 6:25 pm : link
You can talk to the QB by headset radio but not by walkie talkie. Its a distinction without meaning.
RE: Even the NFL realizes it is a ridiculous rule  
Eman11 : 2/25/2017 7:07 pm : link
In comment 13371430 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
You can talk to the QB by headset radio but not by walkie talkie. Its a distinction without meaning.



The distinction is they can cut the headset communication at 15 seconds but can't with the walkie talkie.
for the next 10 years or less we will be evaluating  
gtt350 : 2/25/2017 7:59 pm : link
the nine players before our 4th round pick
I don't know Frank Schwab  
Cruzin : 2/25/2017 8:08 pm : link
but to me it's obvious he's a Pats slanted writer from this article. Which kind of pisses me off since they did what they needed to do this year to show up Goodell and the questionable punishment.

What more could you ask for? Is the point of the article to show that Goodell is in bed with Mara for some reason? Should we address Kraft making millions of dollars as an investor in DraftKings and Fanduel when it should have been ruled gambling from the onset?

The troubling point for me as a Giants fan is why did Mac allow this to happen? He must have known it was illegal. Did he panic and throw caution to the wind just to beat Dallas? I could get behind a man like that.

I'm not a Mac fan as HC when Coughlin could have easily done better with our newly bought defense. I'm not a Coughlin homer either, I just think we would have been been better off with Mac as OC. I think he had too much to learn too quickly and it cost us a better playoff position this year.

I think it was confusion, a situation that arose that we were not prepared for. I think that happened several other times during the year. Mac not being in a position to adjust because he was going through growing pains of being a play calling HC.

It may pay off in the long run. Problem is, we don't have a long run. We had last year, which was better than what we've had, we have this year and next. That's it. Again, I'm not a TC homer but the timing of annoiting a new HC with no experience who also wants to call his own plays is very questionable to me.

Hey, we beat Dallas, Mac made a spontaneous call that I do not disagree with. His cushion is gone. Get the pieces, get more creative and let's make it happen. Gonna be a long wait after Eli's done, Mac really doesn't matter.



RE: I don't know Frank Schwab  
SHO'NUFF : 2/25/2017 8:16 pm : link
In comment 13371497 Cruzin said:
Quote:
but to me it's obvious he's a Pats slanted writer from this article.


If you think that's bad, you obviously didn't read my linked article. Talk about Pats slanted (granted it is from Boston media).

Quote:
Perhaps it would be more difficult to speculate that perhaps Goodell is playing favorites if the commissioner had not gone out of his way to try to help the Giants avoid any and all issues with Josh Brown during the former Giants kicker’s issues with domestic violence. Had Goodell not worked with the Giants to bypass the automatic six-game suspension which Goodell instituted himself, had Goodell not personally worked to drop that suspension to just one game in hopes of sweeping it all under the rug, then maybe — just maybe — nobody would accuse him of favoritism with regard to the New York Giants.
I did not Sho  
Cruzin : 2/25/2017 8:26 pm : link

but I will now.
Bottom line  
Cruzin : 2/25/2017 8:34 pm : link

I'd rather be a friend of Goodell (although my sister and brother-in-law have 56 years between them as NFL employees and hate Goodell) as a Giants fan and have other teams complaining about it than be on the martyr side.

It's good to be connected. There's just no way possible that Kraft has ever been slighted without being taken care of in other situations. He bitches for show and counts his money in the dark.
The Pats lost a 1st rounder for failure to cooperate...  
Torrag : 2/25/2017 10:12 pm : link
...not for deflating footballs. Fake News.
Atlanta knowingly cheated for two  
LauderdaleMatty : 2/26/2017 8:42 am : link
Years. Two. 16 games. Much worse IMO than deflatefafe. Their punishment was a huge joke. . This guy is a moron
The Pats are regarded by the league  
Don in DC : 2/27/2017 2:33 pm : link
as serial cheaters, and the penalty they received for deflate gate reflected that fact. The Giants. by contrast, are regarded as pretty much model citizens, and the penalty they received reflected that as well.
It was not like  
Fred in Atlanta : 2/27/2017 2:56 pm : link
The Giants covered it up. They were out in the open about it. Why did not the refs stop them?
Do you really think McAdoo knew he was breaking a rule  
ghost718 : 2/27/2017 5:26 pm : link
I don't

Belichick on the other hand,I'm pretty sure he has every rule memorized...from every edition ever printed.
RE: RE: Has anyone answered the question as to whether  
SomeFan : 2/27/2017 6:05 pm : link
In comment 13371422 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13371409 SomeFan said:


Quote:


the Cowboys could still communicate and it was only the Giants' equipment that malfunctioned. That is the question to answer.



Cowboys equipment still worked, but it's irrelevant, the league run communications systems are shut off 15 seconds prior to play clock expiring. the walkies talkies cannot be disabled that same way.

If one teams coach to QB system stops working the other team does not need to stop using theirs.


To me the answer goes to whether the Giants punishment was too light and that fact leads me to think it is not too light, maybe it is too severe.
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