Ereck Flowers

But I think he's probably a better RT

Coaches need to have him compete for his job.
But requires bringing in a vet

We find out quickly how much value he places on his position

but none are certain upgrades, which means he likely stays put and continues to learn on the job at LT.

Young OL still learning and continuity is vital.

no big deal.

But maybe not valid. We are entitled to see progress from injured to health, from first year to second year.
It's that lack of progress and particularly with regard to technique that can lead someone to believe that without an epiphany he's not going to get better.
And that's followed by the tenative conclusion that slow feet might damn him even if the light bulb goes off.
We are in Eli's last years, we don't have the luxury of waiting, we are not in the mood for projects.

half the Forum would have wanted Phil Simms run out of town by about 1985 as a "china doll";

Tiki Barber's fumbling would have made him 100x the whipping boy David Wilson was;

Amani Toomer would have been Ruben Randle; and Michael Strahan would have been a "bust."

To be fair about Joe Morris, I don't remember him being bad his first two seasons. I remember him being stuck behind Butch Woolfolk. As I recall the story, Parcells was unhappy about Woolfolk's unwillingness to run inside. There was a play where the O-line opened a huge hole in the middle and Woolfolk bounced the play outside and got stuffed. Parcells finally gave up and decided to try Morris.

They are all going to cost north of 8 mil and none of them are all that good except the old man Whitworth. I'd stick with Flowers at LT the only option I'd explore is what the price is for Joe Thomas in a trade? I would give up any pick except for pick 23 and 55. I'd throw in DRC too. But that's it and that's about as long a shot as it gets.

I think he showed alot in his rookie season playing through a high ankle sprain (a bitch of an injury) on an offensive line that was otherwise very soft.

I also love him on the right side. I hope he is flipped over there. I think if he is, you can leave him alone for the next 8-10 years.

next year? I think the these threads bring up players that were in much different situations. It is much harder on a team to let slide an LT that continues to be hugely inconsistent in today's NFL.

that EF should not be ruled out for LT.

There is a closing window for this team though. We don't have a lot of time for young players to hold this team back as they try to develop into good players on the field.

For that reason, we should have an open competition for every position on the field. That's what I was upset about last year - not with EF's play, but that the organization was apparently closed-minded about bringing in competition for him at LT.

This year I hope we bring in talent to compete with EF at LT. Having said that, I hope EF can win the job and play at a high level. I think all fans hope for that first.

I think RG may be the best position for him.I think it would enable him to play more to his strengths which is ...strength and power

In comment 13374209 JonC said:

Quote:

but none are certain upgrades, which means he likely stays put and continues to learn on the job at LT. Young OL still learning and continuity is vital.

yes

Not sure any of the players listed put their QB in danger of his life on each and every play. Why don't you suit up and play behind him and then comment

bad their first few years in the league. They were inconsistent which is quite different from bad. Those guys showed talent and ability early on. Not to mention, Toomer and Tiki had to deal with poor QB play.

Read his "Early Career" section and think of what BBI would have done to him. Give Flowers another year.


Simms - ( New Window )

as games wear on. Dropping his head, dropping his arms, flexing at the waist, anticipating his opponents moves and screwing up his footwork when he's wrong.
Maybe it's partially lack of conditioning. Maybe he needs to drop some weight.

In comment 13374235 ATL_Giants said:

Quote:

Quote: can there be some sort of test put in place in order to join this board? There are perhaps to many "Lowest Common Denominator" fans out there. How about a test for knowing how to not start threads with a double negative. I'm not sure that BBIers are not confused by them.

I also think the best value for an OT is Wagner from Baltimore and he is a RT.

This is something supposed fans forget the most. In this case though, I just don't think Flowers has the coordination to play Tackle in a way that won't incur penalties. Personally, I think a lot of the calls were BS. Unfortunately, the refs have a guidebook they go by in how you block, he can't do it there way. Worse, in struggling to do it there way, he sometimes gets beaten badly. I think he will be an all pro guard. He is strong as an ox, and seems tough as nails. Let him run straight into people and be a destroyer. That is his natural position.

so the LDE's can run by him?

On epic draft bust. For a team with a limited "win now" window, continuing to play him at the most vital position along the OL is flat out unacceptable.

Solari, he finally gets the techniques down..He certainly has the physical skillset, imv

The eye test tells me he can't play LT. It also tells me there is very little chance he won't be the same turnstile on the right side. I have nothing personal against the guy, I actually defended him against heavy criticism in his rookie year, but this past year, come on, you had to see how horrible he was. So horrible that I have lost faith that he can improve on technique and hold either tackle spot competently.
Whats wrong with moving to guard? The highly touted #2 overall pick Robert Gallery moved to guard, and it salvaged his NFL career. Is this the kind of criticism of Mr. Flowers that disqualifies me to make comments on BBI?

It's more natural for most right handed players to move to the right to avoid speed rushers. Also, we could make better use of his power in the run game.

In comment 13374235 ATL_Giants said:

Quote:

Quote: can there be some sort of test put in place in order to join this board? There are perhaps to many "Lowest Common Denominator" fans out there.

Can we start with basic grammar first? You know like at least knowing the difference between to and too before calling out anyone else?

and then the loser of that competition goes to the right side, but he'll want LT money if he was asked to do that, I'm sure.

to read what he does this off-season.

work at being great. As you pointed out Tiki struggled for a few years before he put it all together. I remember how many on the sight wanted to run Cory Webster out of town, then in year 4 he became the guy that covered the most difficult receivers from the other team. Flowers has all the tools (and nastiness) to be a great OL, hopefully, we will see that transitional moment for him where everything starts to click the same as we saw in Tiki and Cory.

Most of the star athletes have a lot of self-confidence. They need it when as a rookie things aren't going very well, and there's been an injury. Linemen believe that they are good and it's just a matter of time before they have enough experience to begin playing at a high level.

For other players, getting off to a slow start and hearing the fans boo and the media turning on you, it shakes belief that they are good enough for the job.

It takes time and success to get yourself past that. Unfortunately some players will never be up to the job. You can't give a player more than three years before moving on. If you're in contention next year, then you can't give him more than half the season to come around. You have to go to your carefully chosen in advance veteran tackle whom you went out and got at a reasonable price.

How hard can it be to pass block if you're a lineman called on to do it? Dave Diehl, one of the great lunchpail guys on the Giants, was our LT I believe through both postseason runs. He got it done (although just barely against the Niners).

-NYG won't disrupt things much.

In comment 13374378 rdt288 said:

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-NYG won't disrupt things much.

They had one of the worst offenses in the NFL last season.

If they don't "disrupt things", then they and we shouldn't expect anything to get appreciably better.

after 2 years of better play at RT. we have no RG on the roster. go into fa and sign the best guy they can. if he is a guard leave Flowers at LT. if he is a LT move flowers to guard.

then draft the best lineman available and go from there.

That right guard is the spot for him next season, worry about the future when we get there, sacrificing Eli's career for this guy has been insane from the outset. The Giants have done a bad job with the offensive line for way too long.

does hamper getting a LT....

However, there might not be a LT available....

There are two options.....you keep him there and hope for the best, or you move Pugh there, get a guard to replace Pugh, and move Flowers to the right side....

Even with these moves, it doesn't bode well for the OL...once again we will be juggling bodies in front of Eli and the continuity as a unit will not be there....

YES!

In comment 13374466 Since1965 said:

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YES! Right guard.

...isn't good?

...should be moved to Guard?

they are still his weaknesses despite starting 30+ NFL games. Why expect some sudden improvement? Not a bust, but not exactly worth the 9th pick in the draft.

I have to travel to Boston in April for work, and I want to go to a Yanks/Sox game at Fenway.

Anyone know anyone with tickets that would sell 1?

If so, please email me.

Thanks.

Meant to start a new thread

In comment 13374218 est1986 said:

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They are all going to cost north of 8 mil and none of them are all that good except the old man Whitworth. I'd stick with Flowers at LT the only option I'd explore is what the price is for Joe Thomas in a trade? I would give up any pick except for pick 23 and 55. I'd throw in DRC too. But that's it and that's about as long a shot as it gets.

So you would trade a 3rd round pick or later? That's not getting you an all pro left tackle. I would love Joe Thomas, but you have to give to get.

Joe Morris' rookie year, he only got the ball 15 times, was behind #1 draft pick Butch Wolfolk and the great Rob Carpenter in the rotation. His second year, he was immediately up to over 4ypc, 3rd year was very effective splitting carries with Rob Carpenter. His career path was very similar to Ahmad Bradshaw's - the potential was ALWAYS there, Giants just happened to be loaded at RB at that time.

Sehorn and Toomer both showed potential in their rookie seasons, and Tiki Barber IMMEDIATELY contributed, was a deadly threat in the passing game. The fumbling didn't become a real problem until a few seasons in.

I think the Giants will keep EF as the starting LT not because he is good enough but after 4 years we know that JR doesn't understand the value of a strong O-Line so he's going to consider Eric good enough at that position. If McAdoo convinces JR to get him an upgrade to Oline he might switch him to the right side but I'm not holding out any hope for a starting upgrade other than maybe a lucky find in a 3rd or 4th round pick.

In comment 13375100 nicky43 said:

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I think the Giants will keep EF as the starting LT not because he is good enough but after 4 years we know that JR doesn't understand the value of a strong O-Line so he's going to consider Eric good enough at that position. If McAdoo convinces JR to get him an upgrade to Oline he might switch him to the right side but I'm not holding out any hope for a starting upgrade other than maybe a lucky find in a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Doesn't understand the value of a good o line?

You have got to be kidding me with this utterly absurd statement

2 number 1 picks invested
1 number 2 pick
And a free agent signing in Schwartz which turned out to be a bust

Facts are a pesky thing

...didn't last, but did win a ring.