In listening to McAdoo I get the feeling that the Giants will not overhaul the OL.
They may tweak it, but nothing dramatic.
I think that the Giants are committed to Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry ( who they appear to want back), and Hart.
They may draft another tackle and guard to compete, and they may bring in some inexpensive free agents. But nothing that will substantially improve the line.
I heard McAdoo being interviewed and he was suggesting Eli was complicit in the poor line play. He stated that Eli has to improve.
I do not feel Eli was responsible for the offensive decline. I think he actually made the line look better than it was.
By any matrix the Giants line play was poor. They could not run block or pass block.
I hope that the coach speak is concealing the Giants true intentions and that the Giants revamp the line.
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So yes we wouldnt need to change a lot on the ol. Sad truth is our skill positions outside of beckham and 2 rookies was one of worst in the league also
But just improving the OL will also help the offense, even if more playmakers aren't added, but I doubt it will to the same extent.
How is it that the quality of the offensive players is so poor?
With the exception of ODB where are the offensive improvements?
If Ereck Flowers, Justin Pugh, and Weston Richburg don't elevate their games/stay healthy, then it will be tough. We didn't get the seasons expected out of Flowers and Richburg in 2016. And Pugh got hurt again. John Jerry actually had a decent year. Hart surprised me. He struggled toward the end, but I didn't expect him to be as steady as he was (remember, scouts doubted he could play tackle in the NFL).
If Ereck Flowers, Justin Pugh, and Weston Richburg don't elevate their games/stay healthy, then it will be tough. We didn't get the seasons expected out of Flowers and Richburg in 2016. And Pugh got hurt again. John Jerry actually had a decent year. Hart surprised me. He struggled toward the end, but I didn't expect him to be as steady as he was (remember, scouts doubted he could play tackle in the NFL).
What's your feeling on Hart moving forward?
This!!!!!!!!!!!!
If Ereck Flowers, Justin Pugh, and Weston Richburg don't elevate their games/stay healthy, then it will be tough. We didn't get the seasons expected out of Flowers and Richburg in 2016. And Pugh got hurt again. John Jerry actually had a decent year. Hart surprised me. He struggled toward the end, but I didn't expect him to be as steady as he was (remember, scouts doubted he could play tackle in the NFL).
Steady wouldn't be the word I would use for Hart. Better than Flowers? Sure. But the 2 of the combined gave up over 100 QB pressures - 59 attributed to Flowers alone. Keep in mind that Eli is credited with one of the fastest releases at 2.5 seconds. It takes a remarkable lack of talent to give up a QB pressure in less than 3 seconds. Again, steady doesn't come to mind when I think of Hart. And don't get me started on Pugh.
I think you are taking it too far. I think Raanan said they would probably want Jerry back at a certain price. I think he also said he feels the Giants dont like the current linemen available in FA at the price tag they want so they would most likely venture into the second tier of OL in FA. He never said they wouldn't address it at all or that they weren't interested in addressing it in the draft. He also said that a lot depends on Hankins. If he is not brought back then that could change their look on the OL if they have more money to spend.
They know as well as us that they need to upgrade the OL.
What you have to understand is that this is a game and they do not want to show their cards,be it FA or Draft, got to lay low and then grab the guy you want when the time comes.
This is key - everyone makes it sound like there was some clear FA upgrade last season that was missed, when in fact most of what was out there was dreck (and of the rest, Penn returned to Oakland and Osemele made a small fortune for a guard).
The same seems to be repeating this season - not a whole lot out there, and what will be there is going to command a king's ransom. The draft doesn't seem to be offering much promise there either.
It's a transition year for the OL in a big way - Pugh and Richburg running out of time on their rookie contracts, Flowers in a shit or get off the pot scenario. It's going to be sink or swim, whether we like it or not, and it doesn't seem like we have much of a choice.
Anyway, after today, I wonder where Garrett Bolles is on our board. He had been a player on the rise, and his performance at the combine proves that.
There were games last year where you didn't hear much from his opponent. He had more issues late in the year and I think that is what sticks out to people (we - like pundits around the country - tend to focus too much on what just happened rather than entire body of work).
Stating the obvious, Flowers is the key. If the guy is a bust, we're in bad shape.
If they stand pat with last years line they are both dumb and high. We need to be able to run the ball better and that starts with a RG. Jerry is not the answer.
From my observations The Giants need better left tackle play, better right guard, and better right tackle play.
From my observations The Giants need better left tackle play, better right guard, and better right tackle play.
That's the aspect that frustrates me: we've invested plenty of resources into this OL over the last 4-5 years and we have just 2 players we are somewhat confident are long term answers there, Pugh and Richburg. That's unreal.
Not sure I'd want Reiff at LT. Two reasons why:
Lions thought a rookie was a better alternative at LT last year and played Reiff at RT
We talk about Flowers leading the planet in QB hurries over the last 2 years, Reiff is 5th in that dubious category. Him at LT and Flowers at RT is a potential disaster.
agree. Not great timing for a team, imho, needs to improve talent on OL.
Going have to hope Flowers (another year under belt and working -supposably hard this off season) improves markedly at LT and like said Richburgh improves and Newhouse still handle or Hart RT. But, most important, Eli needs to get his act together in spite of aging abilities.
But the line has to remain injury free....
We need a TE that can block.....
We need a FB that can block.....
We need more playmakers, like a TE that can block, and also make yards after the catch.....a Third WR to offset OBj.....and another two way RB, with SPEED....
This offense needs more playmakers.....
Well, if you want to believe that Flowers and Richburg just had off years, and Pugh can stay healthy for a full year... then maybe, yes.
But no improvement over last year's performance, NOPE.
The better question is can they improve without bringing in new personnel. I think the answer is, not enough.
I m surprised at how many think McAdoo s comments about Eli means the Giants are satisfied with standing pat on the OL.
I m also surprised how many dismiss the point about Eli also being at fault. I realize what Eli is to this franchise, but he has had some. As moments. I still remember the second Eagle game last year. With a clean pocket he missed a game winner to OBJ in what at the time was a big game.
Eli needs to play better too
Perfect example was just a couple years ago with regards to Incognito Bully incident. Everyone wanted to claim some moral highground and not want to give Richie a second chance. Yet when Richie Seubert was here, we celebrated his fight and tenacity even going so far as wagering who he was going to fight during training camp. It was a given that he would be the first it was just a matter of whom.
If Ereck Flowers, Justin Pugh, and Weston Richburg don't elevate their games/stay healthy, then it will be tough. We didn't get the seasons expected out of Flowers and Richburg in 2016. And Pugh got hurt again. John Jerry actually had a decent year. Hart surprised me. He struggled toward the end, but I didn't expect him to be as steady as he was (remember, scouts doubted he could play tackle in the NFL).
Yes , you've identified the central issue. The line has to improve largely with what they already have. I don't think they were as bad as people think. Eli, McAdoo, Jennings--they all get a share. Pugh's extended absence hurt as well. But the main malfunctioning part was Flowers . What to do?
Doesnt have to be great. Avg players at either T spot are massive upgrades
On a serious note; not a chance. Bobby Hart can move to Guard but we still need another Tackle. Now I'd bring back Newhouse and Jerry just as depth because we have none.
Even with a Howard or Njuku at TE and a super big and fast WR, and AP.
A stud MLB who can do it all would be a massive upgrade. Another pass rusher would improve the defense.
The Giants just need to let the draft come to them like last year and select good players at each pick. Draft well, stay healthy and they'll have another good season.
I think they will though and I think the O will be transformed...
I felt like it was TD or 3 and out all season ... add to the OL, Ei/Shep/Odell/Perkins will do the rest
It's absurd to think the QB and RBs played a role in our offensive woes?
This is the line of thought that would hamstring us going forward. We need talent on all levels in our O not just on the line. RB, TE, WR... all three could use more talent. I also think addressing those three spots would do more than addressing the line.
I swear, the offensive line has taken on mythical proportions around here. It's like people think if only Flowers were Donald Penn we'd be cleaning up the confetti from beating the Pats again. I don't think Flowers had a particularly good year and I do think we drafted him way to high. He's an issue, I think we can agree here. But does anyone here really think Will Tye or Jennings are starting on another NFL team?
And what about the coaching? I still haven't seen an explanation as to why in the fuck we had the exact same personnel on the field for almost every snap all season. That's not done by any other team in the sport. We all understand that right? Cruz played the season at the X when he's entire career was at the slot. Hmmm... genius? Almost every single player on offense took at step back this season except maybe, John Jerry got better and I think Shep had a nice rookie campaign. If it weren't for our defense we might well have lost, what, 12 games? The offense was historically pathetic. That wasn't the fault of one player.
Two seasons ago the Giants offensive line was the same and the offense was really good. Last season the offense fell off a fucking cliff to the very bottom of the NFL. So, what changed?
( no interest in the Eli homer's opinions)
The O line will improve without additions from better coaching.
We are not wasting draft picks or FA money on more than one addition to the O line.
We need a pass rush to keep the D viable, we need a blocking FB, an explosive RB and a pass catching TE.
We might need a QB. We bought a defense last year, can't buy everything every year. Let the coaches do their job or find new coaches.
2 year window, no time to train college OL.
Jerry has done a really good job of finding "temporary" players in the past such as Antonio Pierce, Kawika Mitchell and Michael Boley.
If my memory is correct, didn't we go through both postseason runs with David Diehl at LT. Not that Dave wasn't a really good player with a big heart, but I don't think that many would have believed that Diehl, especially in 2011, could play LT on a championship team.
There are even some advantages to bringing in a veteran with a little age on him. By looking at his past injury history you get an idea of how durable he is likely to be, and with his experience he can help his young linemates.
Two years ago, we were playing from behind, just about every game, and the offense had to open up, because the defense could not be counted on.....
Last season was completely different....I feel Mac went conservative with the offense, when he had a lead, so there would be less chance of turnovers, and he finally had a defense that could hold a lead....
Two completely different offensive philosophies, because of the two different defenses.....
And when you have no running game, at all, you become one dimensional.....if your qb only has two receivers he can rely one, is it any wonder, this offense took a huge step back?
If they stand pat with last years line they are both dumb and high. We need to be able to run the ball better and that starts with a RG. Jerry is not the answer.