On BBKL PDot is saying he doesn't fit the Giants - especially with Perkins, Vereen and Shepard on the team - says with Perkins Giants need a Power Back and Back who can assist with blocking.
I have to acknowledge what McCaffrey has done in the Combine.
Not that the Combine is everything, or even that much, but upon watching his play I didn't think his athleticism was as good as his numbers prove it is. I thought he would be exposed in the NFL game as a good college RB without the athletic talent to translate his skills to the NFL. And while I still think he may have a problem with toughness of the NFL game, I have to think that he can make himself useful in the backfield.
But he's not the kind of guy I'm looking for, I'd like Perine as a compliment to the the RB's the Giants already have. He's a real solid all-around RB with plenty of skills though not that fast. He ran about the same 40 as Alfred Morris. I think he can contribute on any down, and with his savvy, strength and toughness still come in an do the heavy lifting when needed. I can't see McCaffrey in that role.
Better question is whether his skill set is a priority in Rd.1
Basically he would assume Vereen's role and add additional skills. But, assuming he is not the clear BPA at #23, do the Giants have higher priorities at that spot? I think they do.
He's been begging for a power back for weeks on that show. He's been mentioning Eddie Lacey a lot, as well as the Perine kid from Oklahoma. That's strictly his POV. Those whose opinions actually matter, Reese and McAdoo, may feel differently.
I'd have no problem at all if McCaffrey was the pick at 23.
he's a KR/PR with a floor of decent 3rd down back, receiving option out of the backfield with some upside. Weak bench, but I'd worry less about that than the other measurables which were really good.
The need simply may not be there with Perkins seemingly a good 3rd down option too (though I don't think he was used enough that way) and Vereen (for now) still on the roster for 2017.
He's been begging for a power back for weeks on that show. He's been mentioning Eddie Lacey a lot, as well as the Perine kid from Oklahoma. That's strictly his POV. Those whose opinions actually matter, Reese and McAdoo, may feel differently.
I'd have no problem at all if McCaffrey was the pick at 23.
And if you go just by those RB prospects the Giants have been reported to have had conversations/meetings with, they could be characterized more as the smaller speed backs, than power backs.
and anyone who thinks he is strictly a 3rd down guy or an outside the tackles guy really has not seen him play. He is a 4 down impact player. Not saying that you would give him the ball 35 times a game, but he is incredible between the tackles with incredible patience and sets up his blocks incredibly well. He can catch the ball out of the backfield and is a dynamic return guy. If he does not get drafted by the Giants, I hope he is far away from the NFC.
McCaffrey would be an ideal replacement for Vereen as a pass receiver and occasional ball carrier. I think he could make a significant impact on our passing game but I don't know if any of that makes him a good first round pick for the Giants. Love to have him but a lot will depend on what McAdoo's offense is going to be like. Does he want a workhorse running back or a back who excels in the passing game?
and anyone who thinks he is strictly a 3rd down guy or an outside the tackles guy really has not seen him play. He is a 4 down impact player. Not saying that you would give him the ball 35 times a game, but he is incredible between the tackles with incredible patience and sets up his blocks incredibly well. He can catch the ball out of the backfield and is a dynamic return guy. If he does not get drafted by the Giants, I hope he is far away from the NFC.
I've seen him play tons of times, which is why I said his floor is a 3rd down back, if you don't understand that, or think any RB is a sure thing to transition successfully to the NFL you haven't watched the NFL very long.
I think he does a lot of things that Vereen does. I think Vereen was the biggest change from 2015 in our lack of offensive production so I view his role as important.
From a BPA perspective, I don't see McCaffrey as a clear choice at #23. From a value perspective, he wouldn't match either.
I expect a player at a premium position to be picked
is also the kind of player that some team will fall in love with. If he's still there at 23 it would represent IMO a good opportunity for the Giants to trade down I believe for the first time in Jerry Reese 1st round history.
Not saying he will or should, but I can see teams like New England or even Seattle being all over McCaffrey.
I love Paul Perkins but Perkins isn't good enough to pass outright on a major talent.
However, to be "clearly BPA" for the Giants, he'd have to be the only guy left on a higher "row" than anyone else on the board. If there are two or three guys on that row, he's not "clearly BPA." I think that's an unlikely secenario. But the thing is,every scenario for the 23rd pick is unlikely.
Short-sighted to assume McCaffrey isn't in the mix with Vereen on
the roster. Vereen is a FA after this year and with his recent injuries, I think it's reasonable to assume his best days are behind him.
NFL is all about mismatches. If you have OBJ and Shepard on the outside/slot, McCaffrey is a great mismatch out of the backfield. Essentially a younger version of Vereen.
wouldn't be a viable pick up. Vereen is a FA after this year. If Reddick, Howard, Njoku, Bolles, Ramczyk, and Robinson are all gone, he'd be a solid pick me up for this offense.
Vereen isn't durable enough to be a starter anyway. He's a solid 3rd down and RZ change of pace guy. McCaffrey is better than that.
I wonder what percentage of snaps he was actually healthy enough to be available for? Seems he's banged up most of the time, and a talented player who can't stay on the field looses a lot of his value.
is our starting RB the minute we draft him. He is better than anyone we have right now. Perkins is a good back with a range of skills, but McCaffrey is a difference-maker. He has the receiving skills of a WR, excellent vision, anticipation and patience as a RB. He can be an excellent return man as well. He will pick up the blocking assignments in a flash. I don't think the Giants will pick him, but I will be happy if they do. he may very well be BPA at #23.
If they draft him, Vereen is gone. His skill set can open up the passing game, and he can split carries with Perkins. I wouldn't have a problem taking him at 23. Although he's probably not my first choice.
An offensive wildcard. Will he run, will he slip out and go across the slot, will he go our for a screen pass, etc?
I think he would become Eli's favorite target when he's under pressure.
In short - I'd love to see McCaffrey in Giants' blue and he's every bit worth a pick at 23 if he's even there. Which I think he could be because so many teams will be focusing on the incredible amount of high quality defensive players that they won't be able to pass on. Giants are in a pretty good position because defense is no longer a team weakness and there should be plenty of offensive standouts that filter down to them that wouldn't in any other draft year
and if you have Vereen and Shepard healthy - he would only see limited touches even if you used him for special teams - PDot has a point
Unless he's actually better than Vereen. Then Vereen takes a seat and plays on 3rd down or the Giants find a way to get both backs involved. Shepard to me has nothing to do with which rb the Giants covet or need.
Really, the Giants should be looking for the best RB. Not the best fit. It's not like the Giants are stocked with rbs to begin with and are we really going to let Shane Vereen dictate our draft plans? Did this guy even play last year? How many big plays has Vereen had with the Giants in the two years? One?
I don't know why I keep having this recurring David Wilson nightmares.We need a power and not a scat back. Besides, it has been observed that he will be a duplication of Vereen and Shepard'so strengths/roles.
he's available, I bet they'll take him. He's an explosive speed back, with excellent vision, who is also a PR. I'd be fine with the pick. Vereen isn't going to stop them from taking McCaffrey.
This team needs more explosive playmakers, either at TE, WR, or RB. The precedent for taking McCaffrey is David Wilson. He may also remind them a little of Tiki Barber.
Not sure what half of BBI continues to see as so significant in
First off, how much longer are we going to have Vereen? He's been oft injured, and he's had trouble hanging on to the football.
And second, I've never really subscribed to the theory that you need two different types of backs, if they are both great at what they do, the more the merrier.
Plus, McCaffrey is not a finesse guy. He's pretty tough to bring down with the angles he takes.
First off, how much longer are we going to have Vereen? He's been oft injured, and he's had trouble hanging on to the football.
And second, I've never really subscribed to the theory that you need two different types of backs, if they are both great at what they do, the more the merrier.
Plus, McCaffrey is not a finesse guy. He's pretty tough to bring down with the angles he takes.
Its important to have a back that can punch through on short yardage situations though. Especially at the goal line. And especially with this lousy offensive line. Not sure McCaffrey is that guy.
are relying on Vereen's contribution to be high it's that he counts $5M on the salary cap. You draft a player in this era in the first round pick you don't have him sit the bench for a year, and you don't have a $5M player sit the bench (even for 1 year).
It's not a simple as some people make it, especially when the Giants aren't a team that was dominant on both sides of the ball with very few holes to fill.
But McCaffrey measured in at 5'11", not the advertised 6'0". And he's just a shade over 200. Kind of disheartening. If he's got speed and quicks then maybe that compensates, but I just can't get excited.
Interestingly, Perine, Foreman, and Conner weighed in the exact same -- 233. I think I'd rather take that heft in the mid rounds than a 30-pound-lighter guy at #23 overall.
is missing the big picture. We need to score points. McCaffrey is a playmaker. What's the problem? He's a swiss army knife. He won the Paul Hornung Award for most versatile college player in 2015. You know who won that award two years previous? Beckham.
He holds the record for most all purpose yards in NCAA history and did it in only two seasons as a starter. He has TDs as a RB, WR, PR and KR. He ran a faster 3 cone than Beckham. We could get rid of Vereen AND Harris. Despite the penalties did you see the difference this past season when Beckham returned kicks vs. Harris? And we want to pass that opportunity up? For what? Because he's not a bowling ball?
McCaffrey could get 15 touches a game without sacrificing Perkins touches or development. He also wouldn't take time from OBJ or SS. He's someone you would have to account for if you're a DC, even in McAdoo's vanilla offense.
I seriously can't type fast enough for all of the reasons why he should be on the Giants' radar. The draft is about value, he brings a tremendous amount of it. This guy outperformed every RB at the combine, including Dalvin Cook who's only 8 pounds heavier. This isn't the 1980's. You don't have to have a tank in your backfield to be successful in the NFL, especially today.
Why? Because that's where a lot of his touches will come from. I'm ok with that because we haven't gotten what we paid for from Vereen since signing him. It also saves us $3.7M bucks. He's also an insurance policy at the slot receiver position where he'd be able to backup Shephard.
is missing the big picture. We need to score points. McCaffrey is a playmaker. What's the problem? He's a swiss army knife. He won the Paul Hornung Award for most versatile college player in 2015. You know who won that award two years previous? Beckham.
He holds the record for most all purpose yards in NCAA history and did it in only two seasons as a starter. He has TDs as a RB, WR, PR and KR. He ran a faster 3 cone than Beckham. We could get rid of Vereen AND Harris. Despite the penalties did you see the difference this past season when Beckham returned kicks vs. Harris? And we want to pass that opportunity up? For what? Because he's not a bowling ball?
McCaffrey could get 15 touches a game without sacrificing Perkins touches or development. He also wouldn't take time from OBJ or SS. He's someone you would have to account for if you're a DC, even in McAdoo's vanilla offense.
I seriously can't type fast enough for all of the reasons why he should be on the Giants' radar. The draft is about value, he brings a tremendous amount of it. This guy outperformed every RB at the combine, including Dalvin Cook who's only 8 pounds heavier. This isn't the 1980's. You don't have to have a tank in your backfield to be successful in the NFL, especially today.
Yeah, he's like the old flanker/RB hybrid. The days of Gifford, Charlie Taylor and Bobby Mitchell. Yardage machines. Plus, with him, they could run the wildcat. ;)
But McCaffrey measured in at 5'11", not the advertised 6'0". And he's just a shade over 200. Kind of disheartening. If he's got speed and quicks then maybe that compensates, but I just can't get excited.
Interestingly, Perine, Foreman, and Conner weighed in the exact same -- 233. I think I'd rather take that heft in the mid rounds than a 30-pound-lighter guy at #23 overall.
Actually, 3/4". He measured in at 5'11 1/4" and 202 lbs. But he's buff and he ran a 4.49 and catches balls like a WR with flypaper hands. At the combine, Mayock and the other talking heads could not get over how slick he caught balls, smooth and professionally receiving - even those that were bad throws.
If we want a heavy footed plow for short yardage, Eli should hand the ball to Will Johnson who is at full health and last week was showing off dead lifting 500lb sets. Will Johnson deadlifting 500 lbs - ( New Window )
But McCaffrey measured in at 5'11", not the advertised 6'0". And he's just a shade over 200. Kind of disheartening. If he's got speed and quicks then maybe that compensates, but I just can't get excited.
Interestingly, Perine, Foreman, and Conner weighed in the exact same -- 233. I think I'd rather take that heft in the mid rounds than a 30-pound-lighter guy at #23 overall.
If Perine, Foreman and Conner weighed in the same, that's an incredible coincidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a mistake on the site.
Conner is interesting, but has issues with health and his running style. Foreman impresses me as a lesser Ron Dayne, a big guy who thinks he's a scat back. Perine is solid, and I want him.
But McCaffrey measured in at 5'11", not the advertised 6'0". And he's just a shade over 200. Kind of disheartening. If he's got speed and quicks then maybe that compensates, but I just can't get excited.
Interestingly, Perine, Foreman, and Conner weighed in the exact same -- 233. I think I'd rather take that heft in the mid rounds than a 30-pound-lighter guy at #23 overall.
Dalvin Cook measured in at 5'10 3/4", 210, is considered by many as the #1 RB and a top 15 pick. He only has 35 more touches from scrimmage than McCaffrey. What's the difference?
LeSean McCoy is under 6' and measured in at 204 lbs. at his combine. That's worked out fine.
Completely agree, but some on here have made Tiki Barber comparisons, and interestingly enough as a Sr at UVA Tiki was almost exactly 5' 11" 200 pounds.
with Devonta Freeman (206 lbs) and Tevin Coleman (210) as their top 2 RBs. Teams are built on talent, not height-weight measurements.
A lot of this reminds me of when posters said three years ago that Aaron Donald was 'too small' to be an NFL DT. NFL Defensive rookie of the year, 3 Pro Bowls and two 1st team All Pro teams later, how silly does that sound?
In comment 13380541 sjnyfan said:
[quote] with Devonta Freeman (206 lbs) and Tevin Coleman (210) as their top 2 RBs. Teams are built on talent, not height-weight measurements.
A lot of this reminds me of when posters said three years ago that Aaron Donald was 'too small' to be an NFL DT. NFL Defensive rookie of the year, 3 Pro Bowls and two 1st team All Pro teams later, how silly does that sound? [/quote
sj - I don't think posters said Donald was too small to be an NFL DT - I believe they said - and I was one of them - that he was smaller than what the Giants like/prefer at DT
this thread is also predicated specifically as too how McCaffrey fits the Giants -- not the NFL -- Personally I think he is an incredible talent
someone above said Vereen only has a year left - which I think is a very good point - and may make the addition of McCaffrey a very good choice
the question really shouldn't be does his skill set fit the Giants. That's like asking what team doesn't need a versatile play-maker. It should be more do the Giants need him as much as they need other positions or something like that.
Completely agree, but some on here have made Tiki Barber comparisons, and interestingly enough as a Sr at UVA Tiki was almost exactly 5' 11" 200 pounds.
Having met Tiki, he's 5'9 and probably played at 190-195 in college. But, your point is valid.
I'm not saying a small tailback can't be successful in the NFL. Dorsett was smaller, Payton was roughly the same size, Sanders was smaller, etc. But, McCaffrey's had some issues getting banged up and that tends to not improve in the NFL wars where tailbacks often get their legs damaged.
Completely agree, but some on here have made Tiki Barber comparisons, and interestingly enough as a Sr at UVA Tiki was almost exactly 5' 11" 200 pounds.
Having met Tiki, he's 5'9 and probably played at 190-195 in college. But, your point is valid.
I'm not saying a small tailback can't be successful in the NFL. Dorsett was smaller, Payton was roughly the same size, Sanders was smaller, etc. But, McCaffrey's had some issues getting banged up and that tends to not improve in the NFL wars where tailbacks often get their legs damaged.
Agree, it's a durability thing with some smaller backs, not that they can't be successful.
In comment 13380541 sjnyfan said:
[quote] with Devonta Freeman (206 lbs) and Tevin Coleman (210) as their top 2 RBs. Teams are built on talent, not height-weight measurements.
A lot of this reminds me of when posters said three years ago that Aaron Donald was 'too small' to be an NFL DT. NFL Defensive rookie of the year, 3 Pro Bowls and two 1st team All Pro teams later, how silly does that sound? [/quote
sj - I don't think posters said Donald was too small to be an NFL DT - I believe they said - and I was one of them - that he was smaller than what the Giants like/prefer at DT
gidie, I hear what you're saying but I do remember posters thinking he would get pushed around in the NFL because of his size.
With that said, I still think it has to be talent over measurements. For instance, Olivier Vernon wouldn't fit our mold on drafting DE's but we made him our highest paid defensive player last year because of his talent. I'd hope we wouldn't overlook him based on his weight. Like all of these players, he'll get stronger and put on a few quality pounds but that won't change the kind of weapon he can be on the field for us or any team.
RE: RE: Yes, absolutely, he fits every teams needs.
First off, how much longer are we going to have Vereen? He's been oft injured, and he's had trouble hanging on to the football.
And second, I've never really subscribed to the theory that you need two different types of backs, if they are both great at what they do, the more the merrier.
Plus, McCaffrey is not a finesse guy. He's pretty tough to bring down with the angles he takes.
Its important to have a back that can punch through on short yardage situations though. Especially at the goal line. And especially with this lousy offensive line. Not sure McCaffrey is that guy.
I agree, however, I think one of McCaffrey's biggest strengths, is that he's a north/south type of runner, not much wasted movement. Sometimes we get caught up in taking the guy who weigh's thirty pounds more, but does more tip toeing.
McCaffrey, to me, is the guy who has a nose for gaining those tough yards when needed.
We may have other fish to fry in the first round, but I would be psyched if CM were the pick.
It doesn't mean a small absolutely cannot succeed, but considering the tailback position takes the greatest pounding in the game, more often than not, you must consider a player's size and ability to resist injury.
he's a wide receiver that is also a RB -- kind of a hybrid player who has real measurables - an ultra Vereen -- he can be played from all of the WR and RB positions
It doesn't mean a small absolutely cannot succeed, but considering the tailback position takes the greatest pounding in the game, more often than not, you must consider a player's size and ability to resist injury.
A point well taken. Shorter players like Sproles and Jones-Drew come to mind in that both added more weight as a pro, and I believe it was a least in part to allow them to better take the pounding.
But there may be exceptions, or at least there used to be. Walter Payton was never a big guy, and always gave more than he took.
he's a wide receiver that is also a RB -- kind of a hybrid player who has real measurables - an ultra Vereen -- he can be played from all of the WR and RB positions
with measurable he becomes a matchup nightmare
He's a tailback with good hands, he's not going to be running the route tree downfield, gidie. A hybrid of sorts, but his damage will be the running game and attacking the edges.
He can feature in the return game, but then the age old question of exposing him to phases of the game where injury odds greatly increase pops up.
Power back he is not and blocking was his weakness in college. Sounds like PDot doesn't know what he's talking about. Having said that I do like Christian and he may be a nice value pick
RE: RE: Yes, absolutely, he fits every teams needs.
First off, how much longer are we going to have Vereen? He's been oft injured, and he's had trouble hanging on to the football.
And second, I've never really subscribed to the theory that you need two different types of backs, if they are both great at what they do, the more the merrier.
Plus, McCaffrey is not a finesse guy. He's pretty tough to bring down with the angles he takes.
Its important to have a back that can punch through on short yardage situations though. Especially at the goal line. And especially with this lousy offensive line. Not sure McCaffrey is that guy.
Those kind of backs are a dime a dozen. We can easily find a grinder short yardage type back in FA or later in the draft. You don't draft grinder in round 1. You draft play makers.
You don't think a playmaker for the offense was and is a big need? Let's throw out the bpa vs need thing. The Giants have a huge gaping hole at rb right now even if Perkins is good.
As other's have said, McCaffery fits the scheme of EVERY team. Assuming the Giants take care of OL in free agency, one of the TEs or McCaffery would be at the top of the list.
Are we gonna use the Coughlin formula, if we draft CM?
of even seeing the name Vereen under any context that implies important or part of the future or why the Giants offense struggled last year. Shane Vereen? THis guy isn't even David Meggett on his best day. He's Tony Galbreath except he misses tons of time and fumbles.
Can we treat Vereen fairly? He's an OK utility RB. He should in no way shape or form factor into any short term or long term thinking here. This isn't even a 1999-2000 Tiki Barber. Barber was at least young and coming off a 60 catch season in 99. And the Giants STILL drafed a RB in round one of the 2000 draft. Granted, the RB was a bust, but that's irrelevant.
The Giants backfield is comprised of a 5th rounder who showed limited promise in 2016 but no big plays and a utility RB coming off an injury. In other words, not much.
I think you're being too hard on Vereen, but I absolutely don't see why McCaffrey and him can't be on the same roster. Other teams split out their halfbacks wide all the time, something I don't see the Giants do very often.
He seems to be really good at reading his blocks. Another thing that jumps out is how smoothly he changes direction and accelerates, which is also something that was really noticeable from Odell's college tape - they both change directions at full speed.
That said, the athletic ability doesn't jump off the screen to me - but I'm an amateur.
This reel is well worth watching. The first group of plays don't tell me anything at all - many missed tackles and poor defensive play - but watch the play starting about 1:30 in. The reel gets more and more interesting as it goes along. McCaffrey 2016 highlights - ( New Window )
Use him that way and you won't be disappointed. Stick him at RB only and be unimaginative and he won't be special.
His skill set his very wide and his measurables are much better than I ever expected.
The only concern I have with him is his slight build for the position, durability, and blocking. He is lean for a running back. 3rd and short or on the goal line I don't see him running through linebackers to get the yardage needed - luckily that type of player is dirt cheap.
He fits any NFL team but especially this team. Out of the backfield or split out wide most safeties and linebackers will struggle against him. Teams would be forced to be in nickle and dime just to account for the option for the Giants to split him out whenever they want.
A player like McCaffrey is especially useful to a QB like Eli
with a very good understanding of the game and an ability to audible effectively. Which is why the Giants signed Vereen, who I think has really helped Eli.
But he's not the kind of guy I'm looking for, I'd like Perine as a compliment to the the RB's the Giants already have. He's a real solid all-around RB with plenty of skills though not that fast. He ran about the same 40 as Alfred Morris. I think he can contribute on any down, and with his savvy, strength and toughness still come in an do the heavy lifting when needed. I can't see McCaffrey in that role.
I'd have no problem at all if McCaffrey was the pick at 23.
The need simply may not be there with Perkins seemingly a good 3rd down option too (though I don't think he was used enough that way) and Vereen (for now) still on the roster for 2017.
Better version of Vereen.
I'd have no problem at all if McCaffrey was the pick at 23.
And if you go just by those RB prospects the Giants have been reported to have had conversations/meetings with, they could be characterized more as the smaller speed backs, than power backs.
Who would trade for Vereen?
I've seen him play tons of times, which is why I said his floor is a 3rd down back, if you don't understand that, or think any RB is a sure thing to transition successfully to the NFL you haven't watched the NFL very long.
From a BPA perspective, I don't see McCaffrey as a clear choice at #23. From a value perspective, he wouldn't match either.
I would be mad but would rather NYG go some other direction ( TE, LB, DT, OL )
Not saying he will or should, but I can see teams like New England or even Seattle being all over McCaffrey.
However, to be "clearly BPA" for the Giants, he'd have to be the only guy left on a higher "row" than anyone else on the board. If there are two or three guys on that row, he's not "clearly BPA." I think that's an unlikely secenario. But the thing is,every scenario for the 23rd pick is unlikely.
NFL is all about mismatches. If you have OBJ and Shepard on the outside/slot, McCaffrey is a great mismatch out of the backfield. Essentially a younger version of Vereen.
Vereen isn't durable enough to be a starter anyway. He's a solid 3rd down and RZ change of pace guy. McCaffrey is better than that.
I think he would become Eli's favorite target when he's under pressure.
In short - I'd love to see McCaffrey in Giants' blue and he's every bit worth a pick at 23 if he's even there. Which I think he could be because so many teams will be focusing on the incredible amount of high quality defensive players that they won't be able to pass on. Giants are in a pretty good position because defense is no longer a team weakness and there should be plenty of offensive standouts that filter down to them that wouldn't in any other draft year
Unless he's actually better than Vereen. Then Vereen takes a seat and plays on 3rd down or the Giants find a way to get both backs involved. Shepard to me has nothing to do with which rb the Giants covet or need.
Really, the Giants should be looking for the best RB. Not the best fit. It's not like the Giants are stocked with rbs to begin with and are we really going to let Shane Vereen dictate our draft plans? Did this guy even play last year? How many big plays has Vereen had with the Giants in the two years? One?
Just draft the best running back.
He should be a good pro, though.
This team needs more explosive playmakers, either at TE, WR, or RB. The precedent for taking McCaffrey is David Wilson. He may also remind them a little of Tiki Barber.
And second, I've never really subscribed to the theory that you need two different types of backs, if they are both great at what they do, the more the merrier.
Plus, McCaffrey is not a finesse guy. He's pretty tough to bring down with the angles he takes.
And second, I've never really subscribed to the theory that you need two different types of backs, if they are both great at what they do, the more the merrier.
Plus, McCaffrey is not a finesse guy. He's pretty tough to bring down with the angles he takes.
Its important to have a back that can punch through on short yardage situations though. Especially at the goal line. And especially with this lousy offensive line. Not sure McCaffrey is that guy.
It's not a simple as some people make it, especially when the Giants aren't a team that was dominant on both sides of the ball with very few holes to fill.
Interestingly, Perine, Foreman, and Conner weighed in the exact same -- 233. I think I'd rather take that heft in the mid rounds than a 30-pound-lighter guy at #23 overall.
He holds the record for most all purpose yards in NCAA history and did it in only two seasons as a starter. He has TDs as a RB, WR, PR and KR. He ran a faster 3 cone than Beckham. We could get rid of Vereen AND Harris. Despite the penalties did you see the difference this past season when Beckham returned kicks vs. Harris? And we want to pass that opportunity up? For what? Because he's not a bowling ball?
McCaffrey could get 15 touches a game without sacrificing Perkins touches or development. He also wouldn't take time from OBJ or SS. He's someone you would have to account for if you're a DC, even in McAdoo's vanilla offense.
I seriously can't type fast enough for all of the reasons why he should be on the Giants' radar. The draft is about value, he brings a tremendous amount of it. This guy outperformed every RB at the combine, including Dalvin Cook who's only 8 pounds heavier. This isn't the 1980's. You don't have to have a tank in your backfield to be successful in the NFL, especially today.
He holds the record for most all purpose yards in NCAA history and did it in only two seasons as a starter. He has TDs as a RB, WR, PR and KR. He ran a faster 3 cone than Beckham. We could get rid of Vereen AND Harris. Despite the penalties did you see the difference this past season when Beckham returned kicks vs. Harris? And we want to pass that opportunity up? For what? Because he's not a bowling ball?
McCaffrey could get 15 touches a game without sacrificing Perkins touches or development. He also wouldn't take time from OBJ or SS. He's someone you would have to account for if you're a DC, even in McAdoo's vanilla offense.
I seriously can't type fast enough for all of the reasons why he should be on the Giants' radar. The draft is about value, he brings a tremendous amount of it. This guy outperformed every RB at the combine, including Dalvin Cook who's only 8 pounds heavier. This isn't the 1980's. You don't have to have a tank in your backfield to be successful in the NFL, especially today.
Yeah, he's like the old flanker/RB hybrid. The days of Gifford, Charlie Taylor and Bobby Mitchell. Yardage machines. Plus, with him, they could run the wildcat. ;)
Interestingly, Perine, Foreman, and Conner weighed in the exact same -- 233. I think I'd rather take that heft in the mid rounds than a 30-pound-lighter guy at #23 overall.
Actually, 3/4". He measured in at 5'11 1/4" and 202 lbs. But he's buff and he ran a 4.49 and catches balls like a WR with flypaper hands. At the combine, Mayock and the other talking heads could not get over how slick he caught balls, smooth and professionally receiving - even those that were bad throws.
If we want a heavy footed plow for short yardage, Eli should hand the ball to Will Johnson who is at full health and last week was showing off dead lifting 500lb sets.
Will Johnson deadlifting 500 lbs - ( New Window )
4.48, best 3-cone among the RBs, and one the best verticals.
Interestingly, Perine, Foreman, and Conner weighed in the exact same -- 233. I think I'd rather take that heft in the mid rounds than a 30-pound-lighter guy at #23 overall.
If Perine, Foreman and Conner weighed in the same, that's an incredible coincidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a mistake on the site.
Conner is interesting, but has issues with health and his running style. Foreman impresses me as a lesser Ron Dayne, a big guy who thinks he's a scat back. Perine is solid, and I want him.
Interestingly, Perine, Foreman, and Conner weighed in the exact same -- 233. I think I'd rather take that heft in the mid rounds than a 30-pound-lighter guy at #23 overall.
Dalvin Cook measured in at 5'10 3/4", 210, is considered by many as the #1 RB and a top 15 pick. He only has 35 more touches from scrimmage than McCaffrey. What's the difference?
LeSean McCoy is under 6' and measured in at 204 lbs. at his combine. That's worked out fine.
Completely agree, but some on here have made Tiki Barber comparisons, and interestingly enough as a Sr at UVA Tiki was almost exactly 5' 11" 200 pounds.
that patient almost stutter step in place until the hole opens up
A lot of this reminds me of when posters said three years ago that Aaron Donald was 'too small' to be an NFL DT. NFL Defensive rookie of the year, 3 Pro Bowls and two 1st team All Pro teams later, how silly does that sound?
[quote] with Devonta Freeman (206 lbs) and Tevin Coleman (210) as their top 2 RBs. Teams are built on talent, not height-weight measurements.
A lot of this reminds me of when posters said three years ago that Aaron Donald was 'too small' to be an NFL DT. NFL Defensive rookie of the year, 3 Pro Bowls and two 1st team All Pro teams later, how silly does that sound? [/quote
sj - I don't think posters said Donald was too small to be an NFL DT - I believe they said - and I was one of them - that he was smaller than what the Giants like/prefer at DT
someone above said Vereen only has a year left - which I think is a very good point - and may make the addition of McCaffrey a very good choice
someone above said Vereen only has a year left - which I think is a very good point - and may make the addition of McCaffrey a very good choice
the question really shouldn't be does his skill set fit the Giants. That's like asking what team doesn't need a versatile play-maker. It should be more do the Giants need him as much as they need other positions or something like that.
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no ifs about it.
Completely agree, but some on here have made Tiki Barber comparisons, and interestingly enough as a Sr at UVA Tiki was almost exactly 5' 11" 200 pounds.
Having met Tiki, he's 5'9 and probably played at 190-195 in college. But, your point is valid.
I'm not saying a small tailback can't be successful in the NFL. Dorsett was smaller, Payton was roughly the same size, Sanders was smaller, etc. But, McCaffrey's had some issues getting banged up and that tends to not improve in the NFL wars where tailbacks often get their legs damaged.
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In comment 13380506 JonC said:
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no ifs about it.
Completely agree, but some on here have made Tiki Barber comparisons, and interestingly enough as a Sr at UVA Tiki was almost exactly 5' 11" 200 pounds.
Having met Tiki, he's 5'9 and probably played at 190-195 in college. But, your point is valid.
I'm not saying a small tailback can't be successful in the NFL. Dorsett was smaller, Payton was roughly the same size, Sanders was smaller, etc. But, McCaffrey's had some issues getting banged up and that tends to not improve in the NFL wars where tailbacks often get their legs damaged.
Agree, it's a durability thing with some smaller backs, not that they can't be successful.
Its all about the players available.
[quote] with Devonta Freeman (206 lbs) and Tevin Coleman (210) as their top 2 RBs. Teams are built on talent, not height-weight measurements.
A lot of this reminds me of when posters said three years ago that Aaron Donald was 'too small' to be an NFL DT. NFL Defensive rookie of the year, 3 Pro Bowls and two 1st team All Pro teams later, how silly does that sound? [/quote
sj - I don't think posters said Donald was too small to be an NFL DT - I believe they said - and I was one of them - that he was smaller than what the Giants like/prefer at DT
gidie, I hear what you're saying but I do remember posters thinking he would get pushed around in the NFL because of his size.
With that said, I still think it has to be talent over measurements. For instance, Olivier Vernon wouldn't fit our mold on drafting DE's but we made him our highest paid defensive player last year because of his talent. I'd hope we wouldn't overlook him based on his weight. Like all of these players, he'll get stronger and put on a few quality pounds but that won't change the kind of weapon he can be on the field for us or any team.
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First off, how much longer are we going to have Vereen? He's been oft injured, and he's had trouble hanging on to the football.
And second, I've never really subscribed to the theory that you need two different types of backs, if they are both great at what they do, the more the merrier.
Plus, McCaffrey is not a finesse guy. He's pretty tough to bring down with the angles he takes.
Its important to have a back that can punch through on short yardage situations though. Especially at the goal line. And especially with this lousy offensive line. Not sure McCaffrey is that guy.
I agree, however, I think one of McCaffrey's biggest strengths, is that he's a north/south type of runner, not much wasted movement. Sometimes we get caught up in taking the guy who weigh's thirty pounds more, but does more tip toeing.
McCaffrey, to me, is the guy who has a nose for gaining those tough yards when needed.
We may have other fish to fry in the first round, but I would be psyched if CM were the pick.
McCaffrey shows all kinds of ability - ( New Window )
he's a wide receiver that is also a RB -- kind of a hybrid player who has real measurables - an ultra Vereen -- he can be played from all of the WR and RB positions
with measurable he becomes a matchup nightmare
A point well taken. Shorter players like Sproles and Jones-Drew come to mind in that both added more weight as a pro, and I believe it was a least in part to allow them to better take the pounding.
But there may be exceptions, or at least there used to be. Walter Payton was never a big guy, and always gave more than he took.
he's a wide receiver that is also a RB -- kind of a hybrid player who has real measurables - an ultra Vereen -- he can be played from all of the WR and RB positions
with measurable he becomes a matchup nightmare
He's a tailback with good hands, he's not going to be running the route tree downfield, gidie. A hybrid of sorts, but his damage will be the running game and attacking the edges.
He can feature in the return game, but then the age old question of exposing him to phases of the game where injury odds greatly increase pops up.
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First off, how much longer are we going to have Vereen? He's been oft injured, and he's had trouble hanging on to the football.
And second, I've never really subscribed to the theory that you need two different types of backs, if they are both great at what they do, the more the merrier.
Plus, McCaffrey is not a finesse guy. He's pretty tough to bring down with the angles he takes.
Its important to have a back that can punch through on short yardage situations though. Especially at the goal line. And especially with this lousy offensive line. Not sure McCaffrey is that guy.
Those kind of backs are a dime a dozen. We can easily find a grinder short yardage type back in FA or later in the draft. You don't draft grinder in round 1. You draft play makers.
You don't think a playmaker for the offense was and is a big need? Let's throw out the bpa vs need thing. The Giants have a huge gaping hole at rb right now even if Perkins is good.
I don't like the idea of living in a world where a guy like Vereen would keep a team from drafting a guy like McCaffrey.
What's next? Would we pass on Reuben Foster because we have Mark Herzlich?
Can we treat Vereen fairly? He's an OK utility RB. He should in no way shape or form factor into any short term or long term thinking here. This isn't even a 1999-2000 Tiki Barber. Barber was at least young and coming off a 60 catch season in 99. And the Giants STILL drafed a RB in round one of the 2000 draft. Granted, the RB was a bust, but that's irrelevant.
The Giants backfield is comprised of a 5th rounder who showed limited promise in 2016 but no big plays and a utility RB coming off an injury. In other words, not much.
He's a JAG. Always has been. Always will be.
He seems to be really good at reading his blocks. Another thing that jumps out is how smoothly he changes direction and accelerates, which is also something that was really noticeable from Odell's college tape - they both change directions at full speed.
That said, the athletic ability doesn't jump off the screen to me - but I'm an amateur.
This reel is well worth watching. The first group of plays don't tell me anything at all - many missed tackles and poor defensive play - but watch the play starting about 1:30 in. The reel gets more and more interesting as it goes along.
McCaffrey 2016 highlights - ( New Window )
His skill set his very wide and his measurables are much better than I ever expected.
The only concern I have with him is his slight build for the position, durability, and blocking. He is lean for a running back. 3rd and short or on the goal line I don't see him running through linebackers to get the yardage needed - luckily that type of player is dirt cheap.
He fits any NFL team but especially this team. Out of the backfield or split out wide most safeties and linebackers will struggle against him. Teams would be forced to be in nickle and dime just to account for the option for the Giants to split him out whenever they want.