Adam Schefter& #8207;Verified account @AdamSchefter
Giants seeking to restructure Pro Bowl special teamer and WR Dwayne Harris - absent agreement he could be released, per source.
guess that does make sense. He regressed as a return man this past year, and while his coverage was solid (and at times great), that's a lot of money to give to a special teamer who seems to get hurt a ton and at some point he won't bounce back up.
JT Thomas is in that realm as well, but Harris has significant demonstrated value on special teams, not to mention he's fearless when live bullets are flying.
Ralph VacchianoVerified account @RVacchianoSNY
Ralph Vacchiano Retweeted Adam Schefter
Odd. Harris is due to make $2.975M in salary in 2017 with a cap number of $3.8M. Cutting him would clear only $1.4M in salary cap space.
i'm reading that as..if he doesnt agree to a paycut he's gone, correct?
That's how I read it because he's not making a ton. Maybe convert some of this year's base to guaranteed money (spread over 3 years) in exchange for reducing his 2018/19 base salaries?
JT Thomas is in that realm as well, but Harris has significant demonstrated value on special teams, not to mention he's fearless when live bullets are flying.
Yea, I'd keep Harris of JTT every day and twice on Sundays. The JTT deal was an overpay to begin with and even moreso since he can't even get on the field. No clue why he still has a roster spot.
a la Reyna Thompson and Tyree is much rarer that a great returner. He's extremely valuable in that area. For that alone, I hope they work something out. He'd be a big loss, imv
JT Thomas, Shane Vereen, Dwayne Harris, Jonathan Casillas - all average players they overpaid for that left us scratching our heads at the time.
I think Harris and Casillas have earned their deals. Casillas obviously underperformed in 2015, but he certainly outperformed his deal last year. And Harris has been one of the top STs players in the NFL the last 2 years.
JTT was a complete bust and Vereen has been disappointing, though if healthy you could argue he was worth the deal.
but probably not worth is cap hit. I wonder if the loss of Harris, and maybe an improve offense, might encourage Mac to "go for it" more often on 4th down in opposition territory rather than punting. The decision making in that area was sub-optimal last year IMO, including the playoff game.
a la Reyna Thompson and Tyree is much rarer that a great returner. He's extremely valuable in that area. For that alone, I hope they work something out. He'd be a big loss, imv
Agree with this. Also excels at downing punts inside the 5.
Harris is signed through 2019 and is looking at some big cap numbers in 2018 and 2019, a shade over $4 million each of those seasons. The Giants have had a tendency to try to renegotiate contracts a year or so ahead of when they might look to actually make a move on a player and let them go (see Cruz in 2016).
This well could be a move like they did with Cruz to get Harris to reduce his cap hit for 2017, get him a bonus up front and prepare to release him after the 2017 season. The NFL is a business, I don't bemoan a single dollar these guys earn, they should get it all when they can.
but probably not worth is cap hit. I wonder if the loss of Harris, and maybe an improve offense, might encourage Mac to "go for it" more often on 4th down in opposition territory rather than punting. The decision making in that area was sub-optimal last year IMO, including the playoff game.
More consistency overall from the offense might encourage that and a healthy Vereen or greatly improved Perkins (+ hopefully a legit 2-way TE) would significantly help there.
has also been slowed by injury and is in a position (WR) where we really need some help. The Giants can't replace 3 WR's but they could add one and get rid of the WR who only really plays special teams.
No idea what we were thinking with any of those contracts! very strange indeed - that's the year it really looked like the wheels fell off the wagon in our front office.
we also missed on Graham and McCourty IIRC
Only 1.4 million? That's still a lot of money especially if we have to
$1.4M is not a lot of money when you consider that you also need to replace Harris on the roster. So even if that replacement is making the minimum (~$500k) the true savings are only $900k.
So is the drop-off in PR/KR coverage worth $900k in extra cap space?
then keep him. He's too valuable in the coverage on punts. How many times has Wing put it on the 5 yd line and Harris is there to catch it.
I assume they are gonna restructure though which means convert some money to a later guaranteed money.
Rory, I said above, I think this is similar to what the Giants did with Cruz last year. They don't like Harris' cap number this year, and even less the next couple of years. The way he's been beaten up, they probably feel that he's not going to last the full length of the deal, and even if he does, probably at a diminished return. So the Giants will likely work out a pay cut, give him a bonus (ie- cash in hand for Harris) and reduce his number for this year and go forward, and make it an easier cut in the future.
The Wing and Harris combo was a big reason the defense was as good as it was, and why the team went 11-5.
We're talking about paying JPP five times the amount Harris makes.
I don't undervalue it, but he was terrible as a return man and his offensive snaps are getting closer to zero. Giants can't pay a gunner this much money.
If only being a difference of 1.4 million but the Giants are probabaly thinking more along the lines that he's really expensive now as purely a gunner. He cap space less important then the actual cash spending For the Giants I imagine. .
If only being a difference of 1.4 million but the Giants are probabaly thinking more along the lines that he's really expensive now as purely a gunner. He cap space less important then the actual cash spending For the Giants I imagine. .
Yup with Marshall and the young guys he should never see the fit as a WR. Though I do not believe they want to cut him because his ST play took a hit when he did get extended WR reps .... now he can focus on ST his play there will be stellar. I bet they meet in the middle and give him a chance to earn some, not all, back via incentives.
because he is fearless, tough and a great gunner. I think he was largely responsible for the second Dallas victory with those punts downed near the end zone. Just hope he agrees to a pay cut.
from this guy for my liking last year. Given the other holes on this roster, he's a luxury item. Ideally, the front office is finding guys like him in the later rounds of the draft or as an UDFA...as opposed to paying a premium.
if they cut him, said that before, the guy is beat up.
He sucked last year, let's be real.
They should tell Vereen to take a pay cut too in the
last year of his deal. Maybe re-structure DRC?
They need to find more $$$$.
because he is fearless, tough and a great gunner. I think he was largely responsible for the second Dallas victory with those punts downed near the end zone. Just hope he agrees to a pay cut.
This is a business decision. A paycut means that the Giants will convert some of his contract for a bonus and money in hand. Harris will need to judge the market and decide if he thinks he could get a better deal as a free agent than he would for his salary this year, plus the bonus, with the odds being he could well be cut before 2018. If the Giants cut him, $1.8 savings isn't something to sneeze at, but it's not that great. They would have made the decision that with the Marshall signing, and his decline as a returner, he's a pure special teamer, and while a very good one, not worth the contract in the long term. There are a lot of factors going on for both parties here.
JT Thomas is in that realm as well, but Harris has significant demonstrated value on special teams, not to mention he's fearless when live bullets are flying.
The only reason he hasn't been cut YET, is they are waiting
to see if the re-sign Robinson at LB. If that is done,
JT Thomas will be gone!
for the Giants. Cut him and how many additional guys do you need to add to the roster to perform all of the duties he currently performs? The "net" savings could actually be negative.
He takes the place of 3 players. He is capable as a kick 7 punt returner, is a tremendous ST coverage player and can play slot WR and go over the middle when called upon.
for the Giants. Cut him and how many additional guys do you need to add to the roster to perform all of the duties he currently performs? The "net" savings could actually be negative.
understood but they signed him to play all 4 specials...right now he has been taken off punt return and kick return so he should be paid accordingly. He is still valuable on kick and punt coverage but if he isn't doing the other two he should take a pay cut.
for the Giants. Cut him and how many additional guys do you need to add to the roster to perform all of the duties he currently performs? The "net" savings could actually be negative.
why do you have to replace Harris on the roster? we barely use him. All the WRs and CBs are potential gunners and we have other guys who can KR/PR
Why would you carry less than 53 guys?
You wouldn't. You just wouldn't pay a gunner $3M. Forget the cap too - that's real cash. If you're point was you have to have a 53 man roster.....that is obvious. It's about $ management.
why do you have to replace Harris on the roster? we barely use him. All the WRs and CBs are potential gunners and we have other guys who can KR/PR
Why would you carry less than 53 guys?
You wouldn't. You just wouldn't pay a gunner $3M. Forget the cap too - that's real cash. If you're point was you have to have a 53 man roster.....that is obvious. It's about $ management.
Oh, please - News flash; the Giants one of the richest NFL franchises, 3 million isn't "real cash" to them.
The point - which you still fail to realize - is the net savings Giants would realize from cutting Harris to filling his roster spot with someone else is basically negligible.
It's amazing how many people don't value special teams..
It's easy to forget how important special teams are to the outcome
for the Giants. Cut him and how many additional guys do you need to add to the roster to perform all of the duties he currently performs? The "net" savings could actually be negative.
.
LOL! Yeah, he's the Mike Trout of football!
Hey dumbass, that's what they refer to him as. You may not agree, but please continue to provide us your insightful comments.
but if they're looking to clear some space to add something more valuable, such as an OL, then I'm alright with it. I think Roger Lewis has the potential to be a very good in kick coverage. He was often right there with Harris and made some nice plays of his own.
for the Giants. Cut him and how many additional guys do you need to add to the roster to perform all of the duties he currently performs? The "net" savings could actually be negative.
.
LOL! Yeah, he's the Mike Trout of football!
Hey dumbass, that's what they refer to him as. You may not agree, but please continue to provide us your insightful comments.
Maybe you refer to him as that, I don't see anybody else
referring to him as that. Somebody calling Harris a
five tool player, might want to check the dumbass comment.
Let's see, he was terrible returning punts and kicks,
don't use as a WR the past year with Shepard here.
He is a gunner, that's one tool he uses.
People need to watch games with their eyes,
and less with their hearts. The guy sucked last year.
D field position .... just think if we can keep that same level and improve the O ... we are not a contender ... Harris was/is a MAJOR factor in that ... the brass and coaches have to take that into account ... as does Harris knowing his WR play was avg at best (being nice) understand your role and strengths
There needs to be give and take on both sides ....
looked fine to me as a gunner. It's not that difficult.
Harris downed about three balls inside the 10 yard line,
that was his only real contribution last year.
I also believe Lewis did the same thing!
Harris would not be missed one iota,
if they decide to move on from him.
he's the 11th highest paid player on the team. Is that really worth it for coverage on ST? He's second choice for returns, and emergency for WR. When he was signed, the story was that he played 4 positions (coverage, KR,PR,WR). now he only is good at 1.
only about 20 players have a cap hit higher than 1.4 million.
Personally, I would look to extend/squeeze Vereen first, but after that, Harris should be squeezed.
designating Harris a cut post Jun 1, you can save 3 mil this year, but incur dead money of 1.6 next year (should be a last resort, IMO)
Over the next two years. And contrary to popular opinion, the Giants will need to be under the salary cap next year as well. It's not just this year in which the salary cap applies.
Sometimes people get too wrapped up in the current year's salary cap hit instead of the real dollars. If the Giants cut him, it won't be because they needed the $1.4M in cap room this year, it will be because they didn't think he was worth $3M in salary this year. And I agree with them on that point. He's not.
$$$$ always matters. Dont kid yourself. Im just agreeing with the Giants here- he's overpaid and needs to take a paycuu to justify his role.
At that level, it doesn't matter nearly as much as you try to make it out to.
Of course they should try to restructure if they can and save money on the cap, but it's not like paying Harris at that small sum will force them to turn off the lights.
In other words - Mara/Tisch are losing sleep over paying his current salary...
and that was gunner. He was horrid as a KO returner. And not because of injury of age, but because of poor judgement, which for a vet is inexcusable. Just cut him and get it over with.
Maybe you refer to him as that, I don't see anybody else
referring to him as that. Somebody calling Harris a
five tool player, might want to check the dumbass comment.
Let's see, he was terrible returning punts and kicks,
don't use as a WR the past year with Shepard here.
He is a gunner, that's one tool he uses.
People need to watch games with their eyes,
and less with their hearts. The guy sucked last year. [/quote]
Whether he sucked or not is not the point. It's the fact that he plays 5 positions on the roster that they call him a 5 tool player. And yes, front office people do refer to him as a 5 tool player for that reason. How many gunners also return punts and kicks? His versatility allows the Giants to keep other players they would not have the luxury of doing if he could not fulfill all of these roles. Go do a search of articles when he was originally signed to see what was said.
Maybe you refer to him as that, I don't see anybody else
referring to him as that. Somebody calling Harris a
five tool player, might want to check the dumbass comment.
Let's see, he was terrible returning punts and kicks,
don't use as a WR the past year with Shepard here.
He is a gunner, that's one tool he uses.
People need to watch games with their eyes,
and less with their hearts. The guy sucked last year.
Whether he sucked or not is not the point. It's the fact that he plays 5 positions on the roster that they call him a 5 tool player. And yes, front office people do refer to him as a 5 tool player for that reason. How many gunners also return punts and kicks? His versatility allows the Giants to keep other players they would not have the luxury of doing if he could not fulfill all of these roles. Go do a search of articles when he was originally signed to see what was said. [/quote]
if all he is is a gunner, he is WAAAAY overpaid. And on the downside of his career. He's not worth the future cap trouble.
While it's true that cutting Dwayne Harris would only clear about $1.375MM in 2017 ($2.975 salary minus $1.6MM in bonus acceleration), that's only a small part of the picture. The $2.4MM in unamortized bonus is a sunk cost, and the only variable is which year it hits the cap. Accelerating the extra two-thirds into 2017 as dead money isn't an additional cost, it just brings the cost forward.
The real savings, over the remaining three years of DH's contract, is $9.425MM - representing his contractual 2017-2019 salaries. You can get a pretty good gunner for less than that, and the gunner might very well end up being Harris himself, after a negotiated salary cut.
is a ridiculous comment. If you paid attention, you would see that most punts were un-returnable. In fact many were criticising him for even fielding the punts because they were inside the 15 yd line. Kickoff blocking was horrible. As for special teams, he was a monster getting downfield and keeping punts out of the opposition end zone. There was a reason he made the pro bowl and it was well deserved.I and would love to see him restructure and remain on the team. We have not had a special teams player like him since Reyna Thompson
is a ridiculous comment. If you paid attention, you would see that most punts were un-returnable. In fact many were criticising him for even fielding the punts because they were inside the 15 yd line. Kickoff blocking was horrible. As for special teams, he was a monster getting downfield and keeping punts out of the opposition end zone. There was a reason he made the pro bowl and it was well deserved.I and would love to see him restructure and remain on the team. We have not had a special teams player like him since Reyna Thompson
Do you watch the games? How many times did he choose to take it out from 5 yds deep in the end zone and not make it even to the 20, let alone the free 25 yd line? Don't blame poor decision making on bad blocking. He routinely cost them 5-10 yards of free field position. It was so bad that they actually chanced Bobby "oily hands" Rainey back there at the end of the season. Harris is WAAAY overpaid for what he offers. With both Mykele and Darian Thompson coming back they should be able to replace him at gunner cheaply with guys who also play other positions.
is a ridiculous comment. If you paid attention, you would see that most punts were un-returnable. In fact many were criticising him for even fielding the punts because they were inside the 15 yd line. Kickoff blocking was horrible. As for special teams, he was a monster getting downfield and keeping punts out of the opposition end zone. There was a reason he made the pro bowl and it was well deserved.I and would love to see him restructure and remain on the team. We have not had a special teams player like him since Reyna Thompson
I don't think the Pro Bowl was well deserved, nor did he provide what he was brought here to. His coverage on punts was excellent. However, all other aspects of ST he was mediocre, at best, last year. He was brought in to be a return man above all else. He was pretty good in that area in 2015. Last year, he was terrible. He had a few muffs, he made terrible decisions on which punts to field, to return, etc. and the same goes for kickoffs.
I liked what he provided in 2015, but I would be fine with releasing him based on his return game last year.
you wouldn't know he was on team. I couldn't believe he was voted to the Pro Bowl. OBJ outdid his entire season on 2 returns (called back). Not that I want OBJ returning the ball but it must be a pretty hefty cut.
If our kick return blocking was good so we can see him do the kind of things he did in Dallas.
In defense of him, last season he imitated RR on punts because of the blocking. Or lack thereof.
and very much watch and UNDERSTAND what Harris contributes. Will just have to agree to disagree on this point.
He was brought here specifically to return kickoffs and punts. Last season, he was terrible at both. His coverage was nice, but on a team with a bunch of holes still to fill both in the starting lineup and depth, especially on offense, we can't afford to keep a guy based on his punt coverage skills alone.
He knows he sucked last year and I am sure he wants to stay with the club.
He may not want to stay given the snaps he received at WR last year. That is something we just don't know.I have no problem with a very team and cap friendly restructure. But, I have less of a problem with letting him go.
for the Giants. Cut him and how many additional guys do you need to add to the roster to perform all of the duties he currently performs? The "net" savings could actually be negative.
.
LOL! Yeah, he's the Mike Trout of football!
Hey dumbass, that's what they refer to him as. You may not agree, but please continue to provide us your insightful comments.
That's what they refer to him as? Who is "they"? Based on a quick Google search, he's been called that one time, which was by Jerry Reese right after they signed him in 2015. His words were "we thought the guy was kind of a four-to-five-tool type player"
And that was two years ago. Some of those tools have diminished and some have been reduced in value by rule changes. Value is relative and dynamic.
he is now primarily a [very good] special teams player. when he gets in the offense he will be the 4th option or it will be a running down--he can still block.
Bernie: re "for the Giants. Cut him and how many additional guys do
you need to add to the roster to perform all of the duties he currently performs? The "net" savings could actually be negative."
he only does ONE thing well: punt team gunner. He's been a middling PR and a HORRID KR. He's not a plus WR. With Marshall here now, King having shown flashes and a good chance at t TE or WR being drafted, he's not playing offense. He doesn't play defense. You can't have a $3.8 mill cap hit for a guy who plays less than Larry Flowers did.
He is great in coverage but I don't want him returning KO's or PR's
But when you suck at all of those tools except 1 they usually just call that player a specialist or don't have that player play those other 4 spots he sucks at.
Kind of like how Zac Deossie is a stellar LS but not really regarded as depth at LB ever.
RE: To say Harris sucked
Victor in CT : 3/8/2017 2:03 pm : link : reply
Harris is WAAAY overpaid for what he offers. With both Mykele and Darian Thompson coming back they should be able to replace him at gunner cheaply with guys who also play other positions.
For how long? Neither has shown they can stay on the field.....
If the Giants say, being a receiver is off the table, and you will just return punts/kickoffs, and be a gunner, I have no problem with a Cruz type deal.....
I think he had a bad year.....I think ST's had a bad year blocking also.....you will have to pay someone to do the returns(it better not be Rainey).....I say give him one more year, on a prove it contract....he doesn't pan out, you cut him next year....
That's how I read it
Ralph Vacchiano Retweeted Adam Schefter
Odd. Harris is due to make $2.975M in salary in 2017 with a cap number of $3.8M. Cutting him would clear only $1.4M in salary cap space.
Odd. Harris is due to make $2.975M in salary in 2017 with a cap number of $3.8M. Cutting him would clear only $1.4M in salary cap space.
We need guys like Harris. He plays specials and can be a reliable WR.
That's how I read it because he's not making a ton. Maybe convert some of this year's base to guaranteed money (spread over 3 years) in exchange for reducing his 2018/19 base salaries?
Cap savings from a cut would only be $1.4M.
Link - ( New Window )
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/dwayne-harris-7895/ - ( New Window )
Yea, I'd keep Harris of JTT every day and twice on Sundays. The JTT deal was an overpay to begin with and even moreso since he can't even get on the field. No clue why he still has a roster spot.
I think Harris and Casillas have earned their deals. Casillas obviously underperformed in 2015, but he certainly outperformed his deal last year. And Harris has been one of the top STs players in the NFL the last 2 years.
JTT was a complete bust and Vereen has been disappointing, though if healthy you could argue he was worth the deal.
The players minus JT contributed but they all should bd cut now or re worked imo.
Agree with this. Also excels at downing punts inside the 5.
This well could be a move like they did with Cruz to get Harris to reduce his cap hit for 2017, get him a bonus up front and prepare to release him after the 2017 season. The NFL is a business, I don't bemoan a single dollar these guys earn, they should get it all when they can.
More consistency overall from the offense might encourage that and a healthy Vereen or greatly improved Perkins (+ hopefully a legit 2-way TE) would significantly help there.
we also missed on Graham and McCourty IIRC
I assume they are gonna restructure though which means convert some money to a later guaranteed money.
$1.4M is not a lot of money when you consider that you also need to replace Harris on the roster. So even if that replacement is making the minimum (~$500k) the true savings are only $900k.
So is the drop-off in PR/KR coverage worth $900k in extra cap space?
There are more touchbacks these days, and it seems there is a flag on every positive punt return (in gmen games anyway)
I assume they are gonna restructure though which means convert some money to a later guaranteed money.
Rory, I said above, I think this is similar to what the Giants did with Cruz last year. They don't like Harris' cap number this year, and even less the next couple of years. The way he's been beaten up, they probably feel that he's not going to last the full length of the deal, and even if he does, probably at a diminished return. So the Giants will likely work out a pay cut, give him a bonus (ie- cash in hand for Harris) and reduce his number for this year and go forward, and make it an easier cut in the future.
I am thinking the same thing.
They have to replace the roster spot and that takes 500k min.
We're talking about paying JPP five times the amount Harris makes.
We're talking about paying JPP five times the amount Harris makes.
I don't undervalue it, but he was terrible as a return man and his offensive snaps are getting closer to zero. Giants can't pay a gunner this much money.
Yup with Marshall and the young guys he should never see the fit as a WR. Though I do not believe they want to cut him because his ST play took a hit when he did get extended WR reps .... now he can focus on ST his play there will be stellar. I bet they meet in the middle and give him a chance to earn some, not all, back via incentives.
Why would you carry less than 53 guys?
He sucked last year, let's be real.
They should tell Vereen to take a pay cut too in the
last year of his deal. Maybe re-structure DRC?
They need to find more $$$$.
This is a business decision. A paycut means that the Giants will convert some of his contract for a bonus and money in hand. Harris will need to judge the market and decide if he thinks he could get a better deal as a free agent than he would for his salary this year, plus the bonus, with the odds being he could well be cut before 2018. If the Giants cut him, $1.8 savings isn't something to sneeze at, but it's not that great. They would have made the decision that with the Marshall signing, and his decline as a returner, he's a pure special teamer, and while a very good one, not worth the contract in the long term. There are a lot of factors going on for both parties here.
Exactly, 7 mill. GTD for a ST's player!
The only reason he hasn't been cut YET, is they are waiting
to see if the re-sign Robinson at LB. If that is done,
JT Thomas will be gone!
You need guys like that on the team.
Bigger issue over the money is how healthy he is.
understood but they signed him to play all 4 specials...right now he has been taken off punt return and kick return so he should be paid accordingly. He is still valuable on kick and punt coverage but if he isn't doing the other two he should take a pay cut.
Are the Giants so good now they only need 52 players?
Maybe they can get Anthony Davis to take his spot...
LOL! Yeah, he's the Mike Trout of football!
Quote:
why do you have to replace Harris on the roster? we barely use him. All the WRs and CBs are potential gunners and we have other guys who can KR/PR
Why would you carry less than 53 guys?
You wouldn't. You just wouldn't pay a gunner $3M. Forget the cap too - that's real cash. If you're point was you have to have a 53 man roster.....that is obvious. It's about $ management.
Quote:
In comment 13383063 area junc said:
Quote:
why do you have to replace Harris on the roster? we barely use him. All the WRs and CBs are potential gunners and we have other guys who can KR/PR
Why would you carry less than 53 guys?
You wouldn't. You just wouldn't pay a gunner $3M. Forget the cap too - that's real cash. If you're point was you have to have a 53 man roster.....that is obvious. It's about $ management.
Oh, please - News flash; the Giants one of the richest NFL franchises, 3 million isn't "real cash" to them.
The point - which you still fail to realize - is the net savings Giants would realize from cutting Harris to filling his roster spot with someone else is basically negligible.
It's amazing how many people don't value special teams..
If Harris is one of the best in the league just at covering punts and kickoffs, his salary is just chickenfeed.
You win with guys' like Harris, even though he doesn't look like a game changer anymore returning the ball, he is a tough cog in the machine.
Quote:
for the Giants. Cut him and how many additional guys do you need to add to the roster to perform all of the duties he currently performs? The "net" savings could actually be negative.
.
LOL! Yeah, he's the Mike Trout of football!
Hey dumbass, that's what they refer to him as. You may not agree, but please continue to provide us your insightful comments.
Quote:
In comment 13383281 Bernie said:
Quote:
for the Giants. Cut him and how many additional guys do you need to add to the roster to perform all of the duties he currently performs? The "net" savings could actually be negative.
.
LOL! Yeah, he's the Mike Trout of football!
Hey dumbass, that's what they refer to him as. You may not agree, but please continue to provide us your insightful comments.
Maybe you refer to him as that, I don't see anybody else
referring to him as that. Somebody calling Harris a
five tool player, might want to check the dumbass comment.
Let's see, he was terrible returning punts and kicks,
don't use as a WR the past year with Shepard here.
He is a gunner, that's one tool he uses.
People need to watch games with their eyes,
and less with their hearts. The guy sucked last year.
There needs to be give and take on both sides ....
Harris downed about three balls inside the 10 yard line,
that was his only real contribution last year.
I also believe Lewis did the same thing!
Harris would not be missed one iota,
if they decide to move on from him.
only about 20 players have a cap hit higher than 1.4 million.
Personally, I would look to extend/squeeze Vereen first, but after that, Harris should be squeezed.
designating Harris a cut post Jun 1, you can save 3 mil this year, but incur dead money of 1.6 next year (should be a last resort, IMO)
As good as he is on specials he isn't worth that money.
Sometimes people get too wrapped up in the current year's salary cap hit instead of the real dollars. If the Giants cut him, it won't be because they needed the $1.4M in cap room this year, it will be because they didn't think he was worth $3M in salary this year. And I agree with them on that point. He's not.
At that level, it doesn't matter nearly as much as you try to make it out to.
Of course they should try to restructure if they can and save money on the cap, but it's not like paying Harris at that small sum will force them to turn off the lights.
In other words - Mara/Tisch are losing sleep over paying his current salary...
Maybe you refer to him as that, I don't see anybody else
referring to him as that. Somebody calling Harris a
five tool player, might want to check the dumbass comment.
Let's see, he was terrible returning punts and kicks,
don't use as a WR the past year with Shepard here.
He is a gunner, that's one tool he uses.
People need to watch games with their eyes,
and less with their hearts. The guy sucked last year. [/quote]
Whether he sucked or not is not the point. It's the fact that he plays 5 positions on the roster that they call him a 5 tool player. And yes, front office people do refer to him as a 5 tool player for that reason. How many gunners also return punts and kicks? His versatility allows the Giants to keep other players they would not have the luxury of doing if he could not fulfill all of these roles. Go do a search of articles when he was originally signed to see what was said.
Maybe you refer to him as that, I don't see anybody else
referring to him as that. Somebody calling Harris a
five tool player, might want to check the dumbass comment.
Let's see, he was terrible returning punts and kicks,
don't use as a WR the past year with Shepard here.
He is a gunner, that's one tool he uses.
People need to watch games with their eyes,
and less with their hearts. The guy sucked last year.
Whether he sucked or not is not the point. It's the fact that he plays 5 positions on the roster that they call him a 5 tool player. And yes, front office people do refer to him as a 5 tool player for that reason. How many gunners also return punts and kicks? His versatility allows the Giants to keep other players they would not have the luxury of doing if he could not fulfill all of these roles. Go do a search of articles when he was originally signed to see what was said. [/quote]
if all he is is a gunner, he is WAAAAY overpaid. And on the downside of his career. He's not worth the future cap trouble.
The real savings, over the remaining three years of DH's contract, is $9.425MM - representing his contractual 2017-2019 salaries. You can get a pretty good gunner for less than that, and the gunner might very well end up being Harris himself, after a negotiated salary cut.
Do you watch the games? How many times did he choose to take it out from 5 yds deep in the end zone and not make it even to the 20, let alone the free 25 yd line? Don't blame poor decision making on bad blocking. He routinely cost them 5-10 yards of free field position. It was so bad that they actually chanced Bobby "oily hands" Rainey back there at the end of the season. Harris is WAAAY overpaid for what he offers. With both Mykele and Darian Thompson coming back they should be able to replace him at gunner cheaply with guys who also play other positions.
I liked what he provided in 2015, but I would be fine with releasing him based on his return game last year.
In defense of him, last season he imitated RR on punts because of the blocking. Or lack thereof.
He knows he sucked last year and I am sure he wants to stay with the club.
He knows he sucked last year and I am sure he wants to stay with the club.
Because you're still going to have 53 guys on the roster.
We're talking about paying JPP five times the amount Harris makes.
We get it, you don't like JPP.
Quote:
In comment 13383281 Bernie said:
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for the Giants. Cut him and how many additional guys do you need to add to the roster to perform all of the duties he currently performs? The "net" savings could actually be negative.
.
LOL! Yeah, he's the Mike Trout of football!
Hey dumbass, that's what they refer to him as. You may not agree, but please continue to provide us your insightful comments.
That's what they refer to him as? Who is "they"? Based on a quick Google search, he's been called that one time, which was by Jerry Reese right after they signed him in 2015. His words were "we thought the guy was kind of a four-to-five-tool type player"
And that was two years ago. Some of those tools have diminished and some have been reduced in value by rule changes. Value is relative and dynamic.
he only does ONE thing well: punt team gunner. He's been a middling PR and a HORRID KR. He's not a plus WR. With Marshall here now, King having shown flashes and a good chance at t TE or WR being drafted, he's not playing offense. He doesn't play defense. You can't have a $3.8 mill cap hit for a guy who plays less than Larry Flowers did.
Kind of like how Zac Deossie is a stellar LS but not really regarded as depth at LB ever.
Victor in CT : 3/8/2017 2:03 pm : link : reply
Harris is WAAAY overpaid for what he offers. With both Mykele and Darian Thompson coming back they should be able to replace him at gunner cheaply with guys who also play other positions.
For how long? Neither has shown they can stay on the field.....
If the Giants say, being a receiver is off the table, and you will just return punts/kickoffs, and be a gunner, I have no problem with a Cruz type deal.....
I think he had a bad year.....I think ST's had a bad year blocking also.....you will have to pay someone to do the returns(it better not be Rainey).....I say give him one more year, on a prove it contract....he doesn't pan out, you cut him next year....