Don't expect a long-term deal between Giants and JPP before free agency. Two sides not close. Giants will have to make do with available funds. Will be somewhat restrictive.
fuck it, trade him to cleveland for joe thomas and sign back hankins.
So then we'll have our LT, albeit one on the wrong side of 30.
We'll also have a gaping hole at one of the most important positions in a 4-3 defense with 2-way DEs becoming harder to find.
Tell us more.
The defense played pretty well without him down the stretch last year. Draft is also pretty deep at DE. If you plug Joe Thomas in there down the stretch last season maybe things would have turned out a bit differently. Our offensive line and lack of depth at corner (Wade filling in when DRC got hurt) is what killed us last year. We didn't lose because JPP got hurt.
restructuring does not mean pay cut, it means guaranteeing portions of or more of a contract than you as the team initially agreed to (aka you are now required to pay the player more or sooner than you thought they were worth.).
Eli isn't an option, because this is the year his cap hit dips. To create cap room with Eli need to increase the cap hit in future years and it's already 22.2 and 23.2 the final two years, that would hurt when they get there.
The others, maybe are candidates but again it's not in you as the teams best interest.
Of course it's math - but it's sliding math - there's always future seasons to push cap into.
It dips to $19M - you can convert a few million of that to guaranteed money, and spread it out, causing relief in this season.
Yes, it is spreading an inevitable cap hit down the road. Thing is, Eli's under contract until 2020, and presumably he'll be the starting QB here until that point. Even if we have to do it once or twice more, the amount of dead cap spread to the end is not all that much. The idea when restructuring in this manner is to align it in a way that you don't have to spend a lot of money while also writing off dead cap space, which results in you losing players you wanted to retain.
You're going to have dead cap - that goes without saying - but in return, you get something from JPP, whether it's a season that allows you to bridge into a newly drafted DE (or one signed in FA next season), or leverage that convinces him to sign a long term deal that's slightly below market.
It's very naive to think signing JPP will be easy. He was getting wacko advice and let things get way 'out of hand'.
Frankly, I don't think his performance warrants the aggravation. Trade him for as much as we can get.
similar to Shockey, albeit not nearly to the same disruptive extent. But it's definitely similar to Cousins. Both teams should lower their asking price. I'm not saying we should trade JPP for a few low round picks, but somebody would offer us something decent in all likelihood.
That JPP wants a long term deal, but it was him that screwed up his situation, now he wants to act as if there is no problem with signing him to an enormous contract when he a good season, but not a dominant season. I am with the Giants on this and would try to get a DE in this draft. If you can add one in this draft then add another in next years draft, then if JPP does not live up to the expectations he has created, you let him walk.
I love JPP but he did not play his hand well when he did get injured, let's not forget, and he is at it again. It does hurt short term, but if the Giants can upgrade the guard position in free agency this season, then add the tackle in the draft, maybe we can get by again. They can also add a tight end to help out. Not ideal, but since when has JPP shown the least concern with the team when his money is concerned. I know he is not alone, but this does not make me feel warm and fuzzy about JPP. Maybe I'm wrong but that is how I feel. If the Giants changed their minds and cut ties with him I would actually understand now, and that is something I never thought I would say.
I feel the same way. I didn't expect this at all. I guess I should have known better. Thought he bled blue on some level.
I generally agree with this but we don't know the situation...the Giants could be lowballing him.
RE: After seeing Chandler Jones contract i'm sure his number went up.
I was glad when we first signed him, and wished him well after his accident. But as others have noted he has handled things poorly. His talent is why the Giants have hung in there trying to make it work, but his actions have to be a concern with the front office in his dealings.
Cleveland being a wildcard can trade for him, but now with a new QB in their trade today seems unlikely, and a fantasy at best. Shame as they are known for more head scratching deals.
restructuring does not mean pay cut, it means guaranteeing portions of or more of a contract than you as the team initially agreed to (aka you are now required to pay the player more or sooner than you thought they were worth.).
Eli isn't an option, because this is the year his cap hit dips. To create cap room with Eli need to increase the cap hit in future years and it's already 22.2 and 23.2 the final two years, that would hurt when they get there.
The others, maybe are candidates but again it's not in you as the teams best interest.
Of course it's math - but it's sliding math - there's always future seasons to push cap into.
It dips to $19M - you can convert a few million of that to guaranteed money, and spread it out, causing relief in this season.
Yes, it is spreading an inevitable cap hit down the road. Thing is, Eli's under contract until 2020, and presumably he'll be the starting QB here until that point. Even if we have to do it once or twice more, the amount of dead cap spread to the end is not all that much. The idea when restructuring in this manner is to align it in a way that you don't have to spend a lot of money while also writing off dead cap space, which results in you losing players you wanted to retain.
You're going to have dead cap - that goes without saying - but in return, you get something from JPP, whether it's a season that allows you to bridge into a newly drafted DE (or one signed in FA next season), or leverage that convinces him to sign a long term deal that's slightly below market.
I'm pretty sure they don't want to be pushing cap hits further down the road, the next few years they will need to have cap room to sign Odell and Pugh. Can't see them wanting to restructure guys this year
Well isn't this just beautiful. We got a 2nd rate, 7 1/2 finger dipshit holding the Giants hostage. Bad enough he's only interested in what he can pocket out of this but he obviously isn't one bit concerned that he's holding the team back from putting the final touches on a roster that might get them to the Super Bowl. A real team first player.
This is a guy who has had 2 good years in a 7 year career. The rest on the time he's been fair to middling or sitting out with a boo-boo. That is not a guy who has earned the kind of contract he's looking for.
I hope Reese smartens up quick and pulls the plug on him. Use the money for 2 or 3 guys who want to PLAY for the Giants. The great Pierre Jason-Paul. Screw him and the horse he rode in on.
People are overreacting to something they don't even understand
Restructuring is not a big deal for Eli. Keep in mind that Eli's base salary is $13M this season. If the Giants really needed say, $10M, they convert that to a bonus spread over the rest of Eli's contract- no extension- just pushing the cap hit to the last 2 seasons.
Eli is essentially the piece that controls the Giants cap- his cap hit is almost 12% of the team's entire payroll.
As for ODB and Pugh, so long as Eli is not extended, there is an almost zero concern about the restructures coming. Remember that the Giants have ODB under contract this season- and can exercise their 5th year option on him for 2018. That means that sometime in 2018, they can give him a mega extension that will not hurt much going forward. Let me illustrate.
Let's say that in 2018, the Giants extend both Pugh and ODB to big deals. Let's just say that Pugh gets 5 years $60M- which in light of today's deals is not that outrageous. The Giants would structure the deal to have a low base salary in year 1 (2018) and a slight increase in year 2 (2019)- then bump up the base salary in 2020.
The same for ODB, except that he would play out 2018 under his 5th year team option, then get the big money deal starting in 2019. Let's say he gets 6 years $100M- assuming his 2017 and 2018 go the way the last several seasons have gone, that is likely to be the going rate. For ODB, the trick will be to have him get almost a minimum base salary in 2019, then bump it up significantly in 2020.
Why bump up both in 2020? Because Eli will almost certainly be off the cap- and that will free up approximately $20M annually. Sure, the Giants will have to add a QB somewhere, but 2020 also happens to be just about the time the cap hit for Vernon begins to fade- as well as Jenkins and Snacks hit fades.
this will all work out,no need to panic.I am glad none of you are the GM of the Giants,negotiations take skill and time,JPP will be playing for NYG this year either on the tag or more likely on a longer term,but that might take more time to work out.In the mean time they are going about buisness,they were probably never going to pay huge contracts out to any of the available FA's anyway.The draft is probably where OL will be addressed.
Well isn't this just beautiful. We got a 2nd rate, 7 1/2 finger dipshit holding the Giants hostage. Bad enough he's only interested in what he can pocket out of this but he obviously isn't one bit concerned that he's holding the team back from putting the final touches on a roster that might get them to the Super Bowl. A real team first player.
Yeah, he really forced the Giants at gunpoint to franchise tag him.
So then we'll have our LT, albeit one on the wrong side of 30.
We'll also have a gaping hole at one of the most important positions in a 4-3 defense with 2-way DEs becoming harder to find.
Tell us more.
Very likely true. To me that just means it is all the more likely he plays a year on the tag and then leaves to go get paid.
Pay the man.
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fuck it, trade him to cleveland for joe thomas and sign back hankins.
So then we'll have our LT, albeit one on the wrong side of 30.
We'll also have a gaping hole at one of the most important positions in a 4-3 defense with 2-way DEs becoming harder to find.
Tell us more.
The defense played pretty well without him down the stretch last year. Draft is also pretty deep at DE. If you plug Joe Thomas in there down the stretch last season maybe things would have turned out a bit differently. Our offensive line and lack of depth at corner (Wade filling in when DRC got hurt) is what killed us last year. We didn't lose because JPP got hurt.
Eli isn't an option, because this is the year his cap hit dips. To create cap room with Eli need to increase the cap hit in future years and it's already 22.2 and 23.2 the final two years, that would hurt when they get there.
The others, maybe are candidates but again it's not in you as the teams best interest.
Of course it's math - but it's sliding math - there's always future seasons to push cap into.
It dips to $19M - you can convert a few million of that to guaranteed money, and spread it out, causing relief in this season.
Yes, it is spreading an inevitable cap hit down the road. Thing is, Eli's under contract until 2020, and presumably he'll be the starting QB here until that point. Even if we have to do it once or twice more, the amount of dead cap spread to the end is not all that much. The idea when restructuring in this manner is to align it in a way that you don't have to spend a lot of money while also writing off dead cap space, which results in you losing players you wanted to retain.
You're going to have dead cap - that goes without saying - but in return, you get something from JPP, whether it's a season that allows you to bridge into a newly drafted DE (or one signed in FA next season), or leverage that convinces him to sign a long term deal that's slightly below market.
Frankly, I don't think his performance warrants the aggravation. Trade him for as much as we can get.
Agreed.
Where do I sign..Of course, other than Hankins, who else besides Warford is available to ink at this point?
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That JPP wants a long term deal, but it was him that screwed up his situation, now he wants to act as if there is no problem with signing him to an enormous contract when he a good season, but not a dominant season. I am with the Giants on this and would try to get a DE in this draft. If you can add one in this draft then add another in next years draft, then if JPP does not live up to the expectations he has created, you let him walk.
I love JPP but he did not play his hand well when he did get injured, let's not forget, and he is at it again. It does hurt short term, but if the Giants can upgrade the guard position in free agency this season, then add the tackle in the draft, maybe we can get by again. They can also add a tight end to help out. Not ideal, but since when has JPP shown the least concern with the team when his money is concerned. I know he is not alone, but this does not make me feel warm and fuzzy about JPP. Maybe I'm wrong but that is how I feel. If the Giants changed their minds and cut ties with him I would actually understand now, and that is something I never thought I would say.
I feel the same way. I didn't expect this at all. I guess I should have known better. Thought he bled blue on some level.
I generally agree with this but we don't know the situation...the Giants could be lowballing him.
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fuck it, trade him to cleveland for joe thomas and sign back hankins.
Did it it ever occur to that the Browns might not take that trade? Jesus Christ you make it seem like Cleveland offered Thomas for JPP.
Unbelievable the stupidity this time of year.
fucking relax dude...
Cleveland being a wildcard can trade for him, but now with a new QB in their trade today seems unlikely, and a fantasy at best. Shame as they are known for more head scratching deals.
Always a wild ride this time of year.
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restructuring does not mean pay cut, it means guaranteeing portions of or more of a contract than you as the team initially agreed to (aka you are now required to pay the player more or sooner than you thought they were worth.).
Eli isn't an option, because this is the year his cap hit dips. To create cap room with Eli need to increase the cap hit in future years and it's already 22.2 and 23.2 the final two years, that would hurt when they get there.
The others, maybe are candidates but again it's not in you as the teams best interest.
Of course it's math - but it's sliding math - there's always future seasons to push cap into.
It dips to $19M - you can convert a few million of that to guaranteed money, and spread it out, causing relief in this season.
Yes, it is spreading an inevitable cap hit down the road. Thing is, Eli's under contract until 2020, and presumably he'll be the starting QB here until that point. Even if we have to do it once or twice more, the amount of dead cap spread to the end is not all that much. The idea when restructuring in this manner is to align it in a way that you don't have to spend a lot of money while also writing off dead cap space, which results in you losing players you wanted to retain.
You're going to have dead cap - that goes without saying - but in return, you get something from JPP, whether it's a season that allows you to bridge into a newly drafted DE (or one signed in FA next season), or leverage that convinces him to sign a long term deal that's slightly below market.
I'm pretty sure they don't want to be pushing cap hits further down the road, the next few years they will need to have cap room to sign Odell and Pugh. Can't see them wanting to restructure guys this year
This is a guy who has had 2 good years in a 7 year career. The rest on the time he's been fair to middling or sitting out with a boo-boo. That is not a guy who has earned the kind of contract he's looking for.
I hope Reese smartens up quick and pulls the plug on him. Use the money for 2 or 3 guys who want to PLAY for the Giants. The great Pierre Jason-Paul. Screw him and the horse he rode in on.
Eli is essentially the piece that controls the Giants cap- his cap hit is almost 12% of the team's entire payroll.
As for ODB and Pugh, so long as Eli is not extended, there is an almost zero concern about the restructures coming. Remember that the Giants have ODB under contract this season- and can exercise their 5th year option on him for 2018. That means that sometime in 2018, they can give him a mega extension that will not hurt much going forward. Let me illustrate.
Let's say that in 2018, the Giants extend both Pugh and ODB to big deals. Let's just say that Pugh gets 5 years $60M- which in light of today's deals is not that outrageous. The Giants would structure the deal to have a low base salary in year 1 (2018) and a slight increase in year 2 (2019)- then bump up the base salary in 2020.
The same for ODB, except that he would play out 2018 under his 5th year team option, then get the big money deal starting in 2019. Let's say he gets 6 years $100M- assuming his 2017 and 2018 go the way the last several seasons have gone, that is likely to be the going rate. For ODB, the trick will be to have him get almost a minimum base salary in 2019, then bump it up significantly in 2020.
Why bump up both in 2020? Because Eli will almost certainly be off the cap- and that will free up approximately $20M annually. Sure, the Giants will have to add a QB somewhere, but 2020 also happens to be just about the time the cap hit for Vernon begins to fade- as well as Jenkins and Snacks hit fades.
Yeah, he really forced the Giants at gunpoint to franchise tag him.