this type of OL. Huge guy and that's all well and good, but sloppy physique, footwork and not mentally sharp. Sort of like our LT.
I agree -- but if the price is right it makes sense to bring in a vet with experience and some upside. The Giants need bodies and completion along the OL. Doesn't make sense to burn 2-3 picks on OL.
but when you are out on all of the top FA's you have to go into tier 2 and 3. Fluker is a young player who played for a very broken franchise who may respond well in a new environment.
Sooner or later the Giants will catch a break on the OL without having to invest a top pick or a huge contract. If he checks out physically and the numbers are right, it could pay immediate dividends.
But I think if you sign Beachum for LT, sign Fluker to RG, move Flowers to RT- that's a pretty good line in the modern NFL.
In today's NFL, you have big men in the middle of the DL- and the Giants have had problems running the ball between the tackles for years because they can't move those guys. Fluker would definitely help move those big guys.
Beachum's pass protect skills were significantly better than Flowers last year- Eli only has about 3 years left- make sure he doesn't get slammed from the back side anymore and you have better odds with the 3 WR.
In addition, people REALLY have forgotten this one- one of Eli's strengths in his early prime and when the Giants won 2 Super Bowls was his ability to freeze the defense with the play action fake handoff. No defense even buys Eli's play action anymore because they KNOW the Giants can't run the ball anyway, so just stay in your base pass D.
Also remember that if the DE/rush LB has to play contain on the run, and the Giants can run the ball effectively, that slows the pass rush down too- which is why Eli used the play action so much years ago.
If you have some big guys who can move people on the line- AND a blocking TE/FB, that play action becomes a threat again- and Eli stays on his feet and can set his feet more often because the defense has to stay honest.
It isn't just about having 5 All Pros- it is about slowing the defense down that half-step on the pass rush and being able to move the DL to get that 1st down on short yardage.
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OL D.J. Fluker has visit scheduled with Giants, per source. The Patriots also have strong interest in the former Chargers first-round pick.
improved Guard play and the ability to run up the gut will greatly help in pass pro. It will also help keep a cleaner pocket for Eli. I know LT is the highly coveted position on the OLine, but there's other ways to make it work. The Giants need to get creative.
Fluker and a rookie in the first two rounds competing for the open 2 slots. This paired with Ellison and we are at least moving in the right direction. Imagine what Beckham/Shepard can do with at the very least, an extra second to get open.
At the very least Fluker gives us push up front. Beachum has more polish than Flowers on the left side. Grab those two and slide Flowers to RT, get back Newhouse and/or Jerry for depth and that is a good offseason given the market and cap room. Gets us much younger, deeper and more powerful up front. Get JPP to a long term deal and that is a productive offseason as we can draft BPA again and stay on course with the goal of the team.
Common theme to all the guys we are looking at seems to be size & power. We got pushed around last year
For sure. I don't see sloppy footwork or technique here as some others have suggested. He is a big strapping nasty dude who doesn't get pushed around... but based on the mistake clips... oopha. I mean... He stripped his own WR on a fumble for crissakes... lol. Still, maybe an org change helps a guy like this.
Just a competent OLine would be nice. It's been awhile..
sarcasm
ˈsrˌkazəm/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
I hear you. But let's see how this all plays out....Ellison and Marshall will certainly help things out up front.
I like both moves alot. So, no complaints from me. I'd just like to add Fluker, too. At least we have a visit scheduled, so there is at least some interest there on both sides.
Same as I feel about Flowers. I think the assumption that their weaknesses can be better masked at OG than at OT is a mistake.
While the OT position requires greater athletic ability to be successful, the OG position is more mentally demanding. It was a couple of years ago I read in one of Bob McGinn's pre-draft columns an NFL scout saying that it's more important for an OG to be smart than it is an OT. Also, it seems to me that it's a waste of 35 1/2 inch arms to put these guys at OG.
So if you feel it is the mental demands of the game holding Flowers or Fluker back and not their athletic ability, a switch to OG from OT is not going to solve their problems. Only their coaches know if this is the case or not.
They have very, very different personalities, but they also have a lot in common (and the fact that both their names begin with "FL" is just a small part of it).
RE: RE: RE: I don't think anyone's looking for 5 pro bowlers.
Just a competent OLine would be nice. It's been awhile..
sarcasm
ˈsrˌkazəm/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
I hear you. But let's see how this all plays out....Ellison and Marshall will certainly help things out up front.
I like both moves alot. So, no complaints from me. I'd just like to add Fluker, too. At least we have a visit scheduled, so there is at least some interest there on both sides.
Yup. I'd be down for Fluker....rather take chance on younger guy with upside.
Can't imagine getting JPP signed for a long term contarct would free up that much cap space. He's at $17MM right now for this year. Don't see any scenario where they get that number anywhere lower than $12MM and even that would be pushing more money towards the later years of a contract.
At the very least Fluker gives us push up front. Beachum has more polish than Flowers on the left side. Grab those two and slide Flowers to RT, get back Newhouse and/or Jerry for depth and that is a good offseason given the market and cap room. Gets us much younger, deeper and more powerful up front. Get JPP to a long term deal and that is a productive offseason as we can draft BPA again and stay on course with the goal of the team.
Can't imagine getting JPP signed for a long term contarct would free up that much cap space. He's at $17MM right now for this year. Don't see any scenario where they get that number anywhere lower than $12MM and even that would be pushing more money towards the later years of a contract.
Vernon's first year hit was 13m so 11m is possible for JPP. Would save 6m. Along with the 8 w have that would give us 14m which would be enough for Flucker and Hankins.
It would be a good gamble on upside, but Fluker has the body type that doesn't age well. I wonder if he's gained weight since college that might be slowing him down.
with are the Pats..Who wouldn't want to play for them..Our chances of signing him are slim and none, imo..If the Pats are serious about him, that is
I think the Pats are set at the tackle positions, so they would most likely want him at OG. And it could be the Giants are projecting him at Right Tackle, which could be his preference. In other words, there could be more to his decision than a better shot at a Super Bowl trophy and who's to say that Belichick will offer him any more money than Reese.
and Newhouse. Thinking he is a big upgrade is not accurate. Others castoffs aren't automatically good. Having said that I would assume as a former #1 he may have more upside if the lightbulb goes off. At this point we are painted into a corner. We'll likely add another guy with #23.
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this type of OL. Huge guy and that's all well and good, but sloppy physique, footwork and not mentally sharp. Sort of like our LT.
Yeah, no one ever played better on a different team or anything. Why bother, right?
I don't understand why this organization REFUSES to improve the OL.
I mean, why can't they just find 5 Pro-Bowls who will play for vet min? OUTRAGEOUS!
I agree -- but if the price is right it makes sense to bring in a vet with experience and some upside. The Giants need bodies and completion along the OL. Doesn't make sense to burn 2-3 picks on OL.
For me, one of those guys you fall in love with during pre-draft process.
Fluker interview - ( New Window )
sarcasm
ˈsrˌkazəm/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
I hear you. But let's see how this all plays out....Ellison and Marshall will certainly help things out up front.
Sooner or later the Giants will catch a break on the OL without having to invest a top pick or a huge contract. If he checks out physically and the numbers are right, it could pay immediate dividends.
Apologies to all for getting excited yesterday. Very frustrated with the Giants OL, obviously. Especially to Eric, RYK and Bb56.
In today's NFL, you have big men in the middle of the DL- and the Giants have had problems running the ball between the tackles for years because they can't move those guys. Fluker would definitely help move those big guys.
Beachum's pass protect skills were significantly better than Flowers last year- Eli only has about 3 years left- make sure he doesn't get slammed from the back side anymore and you have better odds with the 3 WR.
In addition, people REALLY have forgotten this one- one of Eli's strengths in his early prime and when the Giants won 2 Super Bowls was his ability to freeze the defense with the play action fake handoff. No defense even buys Eli's play action anymore because they KNOW the Giants can't run the ball anyway, so just stay in your base pass D.
Also remember that if the DE/rush LB has to play contain on the run, and the Giants can run the ball effectively, that slows the pass rush down too- which is why Eli used the play action so much years ago.
If you have some big guys who can move people on the line- AND a blocking TE/FB, that play action becomes a threat again- and Eli stays on his feet and can set his feet more often because the defense has to stay honest.
It isn't just about having 5 All Pros- it is about slowing the defense down that half-step on the pass rush and being able to move the DL to get that 1st down on short yardage.
OL D.J. Fluker has visit scheduled with Giants, per source. The Patriots also have strong interest in the former Chargers first-round pick.
OL D.J. Fluker has visit scheduled with Giants, per source. The Patriots also have strong interest in the former Chargers first-round pick.
For sure. I don't see sloppy footwork or technique here as some others have suggested. He is a big strapping nasty dude who doesn't get pushed around... but based on the mistake clips... oopha. I mean... He stripped his own WR on a fumble for crissakes... lol. Still, maybe an org change helps a guy like this.
OL D.J. Fluker has visit scheduled with Giants, per source. The Patriots also have strong interest in the former Chargers first-round pick.
Like Fluker. Versatile. Young.
Quote:
Just a competent OLine would be nice. It's been awhile..
sarcasm
ˈsrˌkazəm/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
I hear you. But let's see how this all plays out....Ellison and Marshall will certainly help things out up front.
I like both moves alot. So, no complaints from me. I'd just like to add Fluker, too. At least we have a visit scheduled, so there is at least some interest there on both sides.
While the OT position requires greater athletic ability to be successful, the OG position is more mentally demanding. It was a couple of years ago I read in one of Bob McGinn's pre-draft columns an NFL scout saying that it's more important for an OG to be smart than it is an OT. Also, it seems to me that it's a waste of 35 1/2 inch arms to put these guys at OG.
So if you feel it is the mental demands of the game holding Flowers or Fluker back and not their athletic ability, a switch to OG from OT is not going to solve their problems. Only their coaches know if this is the case or not.
Quote:
In comment 13388040 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
Just a competent OLine would be nice. It's been awhile..
sarcasm
ˈsrˌkazəm/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
I hear you. But let's see how this all plays out....Ellison and Marshall will certainly help things out up front.
I like both moves alot. So, no complaints from me. I'd just like to add Fluker, too. At least we have a visit scheduled, so there is at least some interest there on both sides.
Yup. I'd be down for Fluker....rather take chance on younger guy with upside.
Can't imagine getting JPP signed for a long term contarct would free up that much cap space. He's at $17MM right now for this year. Don't see any scenario where they get that number anywhere lower than $12MM and even that would be pushing more money towards the later years of a contract.
^^^ this.
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so we can afford these players AND Hankins..
Can't imagine getting JPP signed for a long term contarct would free up that much cap space. He's at $17MM right now for this year. Don't see any scenario where they get that number anywhere lower than $12MM and even that would be pushing more money towards the later years of a contract.
Vernon's first year hit was 13m so 11m is possible for JPP. Would save 6m. Along with the 8 w have that would give us 14m which would be enough for Flucker and Hankins.
Don't let him leave the building. Short ride to Foxboro.
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Fluker has a visit scheduled with the Giants
Don't let him leave the building. Short ride to Foxboro.
Put Fluker at RG and move FLowers to RT as mentioned above for power right side.
Link - ( New Window )
I see it as something of a similar style of signing to Shawn Andrews in that it would be reasonably low risk with upside.
Fluker seems to fit the style of OL that Solari likes.
Huh? He's coming in for a visit today or tomorrow..Am I missing something?
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but if the Giants are looking to sign Fluker they are waiting too long to do it...
Huh? He's coming in for a visit today or tomorrow..Am I missing something?
This place is unreal. lol.