may be giving them a bit too much credit. The offensive line is in a pretty dire situation, considering two of their best players are going to be free agents themselves next year, and this draft isn't offering much in lieu of future replacements.
I just said basically the same thing on another thread Â
That I find strange is spending 1.7 million on Kerry
Wynn who has been completely ineffective in my my view.
They could have used that $$ to resign Keenan Robinson
who has a solid year .... or could have put that $$ toward
A Tackle. I'm hoping they sign Fluker.
Biggest takeaway from the article for me (and discussed here): Â
Situation last year. Every week we heard of interest in this OT or that OT, yet (due to cost or potentials not wanting to play RT) the season rolled around and nothing changed with the OL. Plus there is not a lot to be optimistic about regarding OL help in this year's draft. So the impatience/ early panic are understandable.
RE: Biggest takeaway from the article for me (and discussed here): Â
seems potentially a disaster for the 2017 season. Not sure I am seeing the master plan here. Whenever I read that a team has a plan, it reminds me of Redskins fans when Joe Gibbs came back and he supposedly had a master plan. That plan apparently was to coach a shit show.
I think he meant in the sense that it's not conventional, not what you'd expect the Giants to do.
He pretty much nailed what I think most of BBI forgets here:
Quote:
The more money handed out now, the better for Pugh, as his price tag continues to rise. It is the same for Richburg. Setting the current roster cannot be done in a vacuum. The Giants must look ahead and project what their future investments need to be on the offensive line.
I think a lot of people just wanted the Giants to hand someone a check this offseason figuring that the line *had* to improve. But that would be a bad idea for two reasons - number 1, most of the players available in this FA crop were not very good. And the ones that were very good made a boatload of money. If you have any hopes of extending either Pugh or Richburg, then you can't pay all-time high guard money to a guy like Zeitler, since that just sets the table for the LG hole opening next season.
to overpay FA OL, and I think Ellison can help, but man that's a razor thin margin you leave yourself.
Ellison is injured or doesn't pan out and you're left to hoping the addition of a big body WR who can block changes everything on the OL.
and even if Ellison does pan out, are he and Marshall really the difference between Eli running for his life vs 2011 Eli?
hoping Pugh stays healthy, Richburg poor play was an injury blip, Hart can hold up all year at RT, Jones can play RG 16 games at a passable level and most of all Flowers improves is a lot of hope.
Was always the plan. I don't understand how people are shocked or disappointed the Giants weren't active in the FA OL market. It's a weak FA class for OL. Paying big money, long term deals for bad to average players is a recipe for disaster with the Giants current roster construction.
The OL has to be addressed in the draft and I think they can find a good starting OL if the draft breaks right.
My point is he will help out one of the positions not both. He cannot be two places at once unless he is bugs bunny.
Getting a blocking TE to "help" your tackles is a shitty bandaid. On pass plays, does this mean the TE has to hold back a bit to help the tackle he is lined up next to? Seems like a waste of an eligible receiver.
Way too early to panic but we need to find creative ways to improve this line, there isn't any other way to look at it. We cannot go into this season with what we currently have plus any rookies we draft. We just can't.
Was always the plan. I don't understand how people are shocked or disappointed the Giants weren't active in the FA OL market. It's a weak FA class for OL. Paying big money, long term deals for bad to average players is a recipe for disaster with the Giants current roster construction.
The OL has to be addressed in the draft and I think they can find a good starting OL if the draft breaks right.
Agreed - about the only guy in this FA crop that I think was a good combo of skill and value was Ron Leary, who went for about $9M a year all things considered. Wouldn't have minded Zeitler, but he went for quite a bit more.
The center was playing hurt
The left guard was hurt and missed time
The left tackle young and raw lost some confidence when his vet left guard was out
The tight ends were the worst blocking group in the league
The offense predictable and lacking rhythm - and with no 2nd outside threat could easily scheme against us
The quarterback playing poor , and along with the coach putting the line in poor positions by the predictability- long time sitting in stance waiting for an audible or snap
The free agent linemen were mostly mediocre, tackles in particular- and they have a left guard to sign next year
Add that all up and the team expects improvement from the qb, coach, healthy line, tight end play, and believes a young cheaper signing will offer more flexibility and value then a name overpaid.
And that is the situation we have.
THey did not have a pro caliber TE that could block. Not in the least. Tye is a serviceable receiving TE that can't block. He's a journeyman. He will be lucky to play until he's 30. Donnell will be out of football by this time next year if he even makes to camp this year.
The Giants have added a physical solid player to the position. It was by far their biggest weakness. When plays blew up last year it was usually due to the TE missing a block.
Outside wr is now better. TE is better. They will likely add competition to the OL and maybe even a good rb. Then the draft. The Giants didn't compromise their future cap.
Some of you boast Reese for failing to add an OT and in the same paragraph say you would have offered that OT less to come here and play for a contender. They weren't coming here for less. Accept it. The Giants weren't dishing out 30-50 million long term deals for average and or hurt OTs. The best OT is 35 and just got 35 million. No. Just no.
I can't argue that but those guys got boat loads of money. Everyone, including the Giants themselves said they were not gonna spend like lunatics this offseason. I don't understand what some of you expected?
They will add ol talent here by the draft. They simply couldn't add a big time sexy ol piece via FA. But they could add a TE that can block and they did just that. I don't understand how people can roast Reese while ignoring the truth. People really do lose their minds when FA rolls around. Thankfully the Giants usually don't.
I expect them to rework Jenkins 100% guaranteed contract Â
Getting a blocking TE to "help" your tackles is a shitty bandaid. On pass plays, does this mean the TE has to hold back a bit to help the tackle he is lined up next to? Seems like a waste of an eligible receiver.
He can stay and chip block - to give Eli more time to find OBJ or Marshall down field - then go out for an outlet pass if there is nothing open downfield.
It wouldn't be a "waste of an eligible receiver"
I'll tell you, if the offense is slightly better than last year Â
Was always the plan. I don't understand how people are shocked or disappointed the Giants weren't active in the FA OL market. It's a weak FA class for OL. Paying big money, long term deals for bad to average players is a recipe for disaster with the Giants current roster construction.
The OL has to be addressed in the draft and I think they can find a good starting OL if the draft breaks right.
Whitworth, Zeitler, and Leary were far from bad to average players. They are actually very good players. I keep seeing posts painting this picture as if nothing good was available. That's complete bullshit. Yes, Reiff, Okung and Kalil were overpaid but anyone of those 3 would've been in our top 3 OL if we signed them. Whitworth, Zeitler or Leary would've probably been our best lineman. So let's stop acting like there was all Menelik Watsons available.
Position to find in football nowadays, and you do have to overpay for that position.
To me, it does not inspire confidence that in the biggest game of the year against Green Bay, the Giants went with Newhouse over Hart, but now they are deciding to roll with Hart, or whoever they sign now.
Some of these FA who signed big contracts may not have been worth that money, but I'll bet you those teams offenses will be better off.
the bigger danger to me from this piece is that they (or is it just Â
Schwartz?) think Richburg is a guaranteed solution at C. He's had one pretty good year and one pretty mediocre to bad year at C. Remains to be seen if he is the long term answer.
Pugh is to a lesser extent in the same boat. He needs to show he can play at a consistently high level for an entire season
Was always the plan. I don't understand how people are shocked or disappointed the Giants weren't active in the FA OL market. It's a weak FA class for OL. Paying big money, long term deals for bad to average players is a recipe for disaster with the Giants current roster construction.
The OL has to be addressed in the draft and I think they can find a good starting OL if the draft breaks right.
Whitworth, Zeitler, and Leary were far from bad to average players. They are actually very good players. I keep seeing posts painting this picture as if nothing good was available. That's complete bullshit. Yes, Reiff, Okung and Kalil were overpaid but anyone of those 3 would've been in our top 3 OL if we signed them. Whitworth, Zeitler or Leary would've probably been our best lineman. So let's stop acting like there was all Menelik Watsons available.
Whitworth is 35 and signed for 13 mil a year.
Zeitler is one of the highest paid guards in the league now.
Leary got paid a ton, and do we really know if he's good or a product of the guys around him in Dallas?
The Giants were going to have limited dollars to work with this off-season. They have their own guys to worry about over the next few years. Signing these guys was never going to happen unless it was for a lot less than they signed for.
Way too early to panic but we need to find creative ways to improve this line, there isn't any other way to look at it. We cannot go into this season with what we currently have plus any rookies we draft. We just can't.
Yup. Agreed. How was NOLA BTW?
I was under impression prior to FA that the Giants had room in salary Â
cap availability and weren't up against it that much. But with the FT of JPP made them cash strapped and would need restructures to free up $$, just didn't realize it would handcuff them some like it is.
Of course, they should've known prior to FA that OL were going to cost major $ teams in demand of OL esp LT's.
I know. Brilliant observation.
Wynn who has been completely ineffective in my my view.
They could have used that $$ to resign Keenan Robinson
who has a solid year .... or could have put that $$ toward
A Tackle. I'm hoping they sign Fluker.
The addition of Rhett Ellison as a blocking tight end instantly helps with damage control at both tackle spots.
Quote:
The addition of Rhett Ellison as a blocking tight end instantly helps with damage control at both tackle spots.
Is Ellison playing on the left side and right side of the OL on the same play? Lol
I think he meant in the sense that it's not conventional, not what you'd expect the Giants to do.
He pretty much nailed what I think most of BBI forgets here:
I think a lot of people just wanted the Giants to hand someone a check this offseason figuring that the line *had* to improve. But that would be a bad idea for two reasons - number 1, most of the players available in this FA crop were not very good. And the ones that were very good made a boatload of money. If you have any hopes of extending either Pugh or Richburg, then you can't pay all-time high guard money to a guy like Zeitler, since that just sets the table for the LG hole opening next season.
Ellison is injured or doesn't pan out and you're left to hoping the addition of a big body WR who can block changes everything on the OL.
and even if Ellison does pan out, are he and Marshall really the difference between Eli running for his life vs 2011 Eli?
hoping Pugh stays healthy, Richburg poor play was an injury blip, Hart can hold up all year at RT, Jones can play RG 16 games at a passable level and most of all Flowers improves is a lot of hope.
Quote:
Quote:
The addition of Rhett Ellison as a blocking tight end instantly helps with damage control at both tackle spots.
Is Ellison playing on the left side and right side of the OL on the same play? Lol
Yes, why do you ask?
No different than anyone else, giving a ton of money to Okung or Kalil wouldn't have been any different.
The OL has to be addressed in the draft and I think they can find a good starting OL if the draft breaks right.
Getting a blocking TE to "help" your tackles is a shitty bandaid. On pass plays, does this mean the TE has to hold back a bit to help the tackle he is lined up next to? Seems like a waste of an eligible receiver.
The OL has to be addressed in the draft and I think they can find a good starting OL if the draft breaks right.
Agreed - about the only guy in this FA crop that I think was a good combo of skill and value was Ron Leary, who went for about $9M a year all things considered. Wouldn't have minded Zeitler, but he went for quite a bit more.
The left guard was hurt and missed time
The left tackle young and raw lost some confidence when his vet left guard was out
The tight ends were the worst blocking group in the league
The offense predictable and lacking rhythm - and with no 2nd outside threat could easily scheme against us
The quarterback playing poor , and along with the coach putting the line in poor positions by the predictability- long time sitting in stance waiting for an audible or snap
The free agent linemen were mostly mediocre, tackles in particular- and they have a left guard to sign next year
Add that all up and the team expects improvement from the qb, coach, healthy line, tight end play, and believes a young cheaper signing will offer more flexibility and value then a name overpaid.
And that is the situation we have.
Quote:
The team is going dumpster diving
No different than anyone else, giving a ton of money to Okung or Kalil wouldn't have been any different.
Don't know about that, I'll bet Cam Newton feels a whole lot better about his situation.
The Giants have added a physical solid player to the position. It was by far their biggest weakness. When plays blew up last year it was usually due to the TE missing a block.
Outside wr is now better. TE is better. They will likely add competition to the OL and maybe even a good rb. Then the draft. The Giants didn't compromise their future cap.
Some of you boast Reese for failing to add an OT and in the same paragraph say you would have offered that OT less to come here and play for a contender. They weren't coming here for less. Accept it. The Giants weren't dishing out 30-50 million long term deals for average and or hurt OTs. The best OT is 35 and just got 35 million. No. Just no.
They will add ol talent here by the draft. They simply couldn't add a big time sexy ol piece via FA. But they could add a TE that can block and they did just that. I don't understand how people can roast Reese while ignoring the truth. People really do lose their minds when FA rolls around. Thankfully the Giants usually don't.
Quote:
In comment 13388935 Beer Man said:
Quote:
The team is going dumpster diving
No different than anyone else, giving a ton of money to Okung or Kalil wouldn't have been any different.
Don't know about that, I'll bet Cam Newton feels a whole lot better about his situation.
He should probably spend some spare time reading the Viking fan message boards, that feeling will go away pretty quickly.
Getting a blocking TE to "help" your tackles is a shitty bandaid. On pass plays, does this mean the TE has to hold back a bit to help the tackle he is lined up next to? Seems like a waste of an eligible receiver.
He can stay and chip block - to give Eli more time to find OBJ or Marshall down field - then go out for an outlet pass if there is nothing open downfield.
It wouldn't be a "waste of an eligible receiver"
The onus lies on him imo
The OL has to be addressed in the draft and I think they can find a good starting OL if the draft breaks right.
Whitworth, Zeitler, and Leary were far from bad to average players. They are actually very good players. I keep seeing posts painting this picture as if nothing good was available. That's complete bullshit. Yes, Reiff, Okung and Kalil were overpaid but anyone of those 3 would've been in our top 3 OL if we signed them. Whitworth, Zeitler or Leary would've probably been our best lineman. So let's stop acting like there was all Menelik Watsons available.
To me, it does not inspire confidence that in the biggest game of the year against Green Bay, the Giants went with Newhouse over Hart, but now they are deciding to roll with Hart, or whoever they sign now.
Some of these FA who signed big contracts may not have been worth that money, but I'll bet you those teams offenses will be better off.
Pugh is to a lesser extent in the same boat. He needs to show he can play at a consistently high level for an entire season
Quote:
Was always the plan. I don't understand how people are shocked or disappointed the Giants weren't active in the FA OL market. It's a weak FA class for OL. Paying big money, long term deals for bad to average players is a recipe for disaster with the Giants current roster construction.
The OL has to be addressed in the draft and I think they can find a good starting OL if the draft breaks right.
Whitworth, Zeitler, and Leary were far from bad to average players. They are actually very good players. I keep seeing posts painting this picture as if nothing good was available. That's complete bullshit. Yes, Reiff, Okung and Kalil were overpaid but anyone of those 3 would've been in our top 3 OL if we signed them. Whitworth, Zeitler or Leary would've probably been our best lineman. So let's stop acting like there was all Menelik Watsons available.
Whitworth is 35 and signed for 13 mil a year.
Zeitler is one of the highest paid guards in the league now.
Leary got paid a ton, and do we really know if he's good or a product of the guys around him in Dallas?
The Giants were going to have limited dollars to work with this off-season. They have their own guys to worry about over the next few years. Signing these guys was never going to happen unless it was for a lot less than they signed for.
Yup. Agreed. How was NOLA BTW?
Of course, they should've known prior to FA that OL were going to cost major $ teams in demand of OL esp LT's.