I was thinking RT. Most in the larger thread were thinking the same thing.
So was I. His one good year was at RT. Think this means that if they draft Ramcyzk or Bolles, Flowers will be moved to RT. Or they could draft Robinson or Lamp and try them at RT.
I was thinking RT. Most in the larger thread were thinking the same thing.
So was I. His one good year was at RT. Think this means that if they draft Ramcyzk or Bolles, Flowers will be moved to RT. Or they could draft Robinson or Lamp and try them at RT.
Odds, are we don't draft a tackle better than Flowers at 23. And there is no vet out there that I want to see brought in, bunch of bums.
Flowers - Pugh - Richburg - Fluker - ?
Hitdog42 made some points about Pugh being out injured, Richburg playing hurt, and Flowers losing a little confidence which is not to crazy when you think he is only 22, Hopefully those three improve and Fluker proves he is a upgrade over Newhouse. He also gave some insight into the way the FO is thinking, mainly you don't over pay a FA guard now when you have to negotiate with your own guys in the coming years at the Guard and Center positions.
We still need 1 OL.. maybe we have him in Bobby Hart? Just draft BPA and hope for the best I say.
I was thinking RT. Most in the larger thread were thinking the same thing.
So was I. His one good year was at RT. Think this means that if they draft Ramcyzk or Bolles, Flowers will be moved to RT. Or they could draft Robinson or Lamp and try them at RT.
Or they think Hart may be the guy..
Then I think they're engaging in wishful thinking.
Well, out run blocking has got to get better......
Flowers, Hart, and Fluker are absolutely enormous. Always thought we needed a line like that. Need to wear people down. As always, the question is the pass blocking. Now you use a number one on another lineman. Whoever the best one is at 23, as long as he is in the row of number one quality players, you add him to the mix. We have no choice. Hopefully it is a tackle, but if it is an interior lineman, you make that pick. The reality is, you could make a good case that our best linemen (Pugh, Richburg) are just average, and the rest flat out stink. Those are arguments mind you, I actually believe Pugh stinks and Richburg has been mediocre to good. Just gotta keep adding talent and hoping for the best.
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Robinson
or
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Lamp
or
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Ramzcyk
or
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Bolles
In any version its better than
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Newhouse/Hart
Although, again if I believe Fluker is a guard, then I'd still be ok with the #23 being our LT and Flowers RT. Thats really up to the coaches to decide.
Also remember the Giants like versatile guys, like Pugh
Since the draft is pretty heavy in quality guard prospects. I'm guessing they are betting on Hart at RT. Given that they only signed Fluker to a one year deal I am assuming they will still look to improve the OL through he draft.
All it takes is the Giants falling in love with 1 of these OLs. They may even love Moton or Dawkins in round 2 at RT. Lamp just "reaks" of a Giant but we don't need a G anymore so either he, or Pugh, would have to play T.
It would be a bummer passing on a Zack Martin-type OG just because we had Pugh and Fluker though. (Didn't we love Martin in that draft, too?)
That the o line needs to be improved let's not forget that before the 08 season a lot of those guys took time to get to that level. I know flowers was bad but he is still young and hopefully he improves. I'm sure all the experts didn't think the giants 08 season was on the horizon seeing as some of those guys were around in the early 2000s.
Will cause us the greatest concern again this year. If we can get steady play from these positions we have a great chance to excel on offense, considering the three WRs we now possess.
I still,hope we draft at least 3 OL guys this year.
He gave up a lot of pressure. I thought Newsome played better and that says a lot. Giants must believe chances are good of getting an OT at 23.
Hart has trouble with speed rushers. Newhouse has trouble with all rushers. Neither was particularly good. Hart is 22/23 and Newhouse is 28/29. Chances are Newhouse will not improve. Hart improved dramatically year one into year two at a position the Giants didn't think he could play.
While I tend to agree Hart was rough in the 3 games against speed rushers, he was more than adequate in the others he played. Plus he got down field and when he locked onto a man, it was game over.
I think his feet prevent him from being a starting RT, but his power likely makes him a RG as the Giants intended. I wouldn't quite sell him short at either position.
One- I believe that this is a sign that the Giants fully intend to go to a balanced run/pass offense this year. For three years, they have simply been unable to run the ball at all. That, in turn, has allowed defenses to simply attack the pocket without thought of contain or holding their position. As a result, te OL has even looked worse than it really was because there was no time.
Two- I think McAdoo gave a strong hint at the combine that the days of Eli or bust on offense are over with his criticisms. He knows that if the Giants are one-dimensional, they have to be perfect and Eli will constantly be ducking and dumping off throws. I think the game plan is to go to the line the majority of the time with a run call- but allow Eli to read the defense and if he sees a mismatch, he can audible to a pass play that will take advantage of the mismatch.
Three- remember that in his prime, Eli was a masterful user of the play action pass. His fakes to the RB were so good that it would freeze rush ends and LB for that critical second while they located the ball. However, because the run game has been non-existent for the past 3 years, the play action became ineffective. Being able to run the ball will buy Eli and his OL more time.
Four- if the Giants can run the ball effectively, teams can no longer just play an upfield attacking defense because it exposes the defense to long runs. It forces the ends to play contain and the LB to hold their ground rather than attack the pocket- and forces at least one S to focus on the run game. In turn, the Giants OL performance would improve- EVEN WITHOUT SUPERIOR BLOCKING- because the defense is not in an all-out attack mode on most downs. Thus, so long as it is not an obvious passing down, the OL gains an advantage of the defense having to respect the run game and playing contain- which means the OL have more time and do not have to block as long.
All of this is a long way of saying that I think Raanan is right- Fluker is going to be the RG- and I think that there is a good possibility that the Giants either get a guy who can play RT and be a road grader in the run game and adequate in pass-protect- or take a BIG chance and bring in someone like Clady to play LT and move Flowers to RT.
By doing so, it allows the Giants to use the draft to grab best players rather than going for need. With that said, I still think that the Giants will use a relatively high pick on at least one OT- but probably not the 1st rounder.
I also think that if the Giants draft a RB who is more of a tough yardage guy and a "balanced" TE (one who blocks and can catch the ball), as fans, we should prepare for a team that will have a completely new identity on offense this year.
please - anyone want to wager - no way he is our starting RT - barring injury - hopes and wishes don't work on the NFL line of scrimmage - never have - never will - read his draft write up - and his grades -it is what it is - we now have 3 first rounders and 1 second rounder on the line - i bet we will have another fisrt or second rounder on the line in september
please - anyone want to wager - no way he is our starting RT - barring injury - hopes and wishes don't work on the NFL line of scrimmage - never have - never will - read his draft write up - and his grades -it is what it is - we now have 3 first rounders and 1 second rounder on the line - i bet we will have another fisrt or second rounder on the line in september
Is it that outlandish?
He started there last year. It's entirely plausible they will give him an opportunity to compete for a spot.
& DJ is the essence of the one-year patch. If he plays well in '17, he will get a long-term deal someplace else. If he doesn't...well, then the Giants wouldn't want him back.
Not to belabor a point, here, or serve as a bad-luck totem, but I've seen sideline shots of the guy during Chargers game when it seems like he's having trouble breathing and is about to keel over. He's very strong. Agile for his size. But I'm not sure if he's healthy. That said , I hope he solidifies both his career and the right side during his one-year patch .
Will cause us the greatest concern again this year. If we can get steady play from these positions we have a great chance to excel on offense, considering the three WRs we now possess.
I still,hope we draft at least 3 OL guys this year.
I agree but no way does "Who needs a good O-Line" Reese use three picks on the O-Line.
I'll settle for 2, and thank God if we get just 1 good one!
Seems to me that he has a better chance to be a plus Guard
Why tell every other team what position of need remains? If this is true & he is going to play RG, then its obvious Giants priority in the draft is OT.
It may be true, but I think you have to take these reports with a grain of salt
and make their own educated guesses on where Fluker plays. How does this "tip our hand"? We signed an OL to play somewhere on the right side and he played Guard the last 2 years, not exactly rocket science.
I'd like to see him at RG. They need muscle inside
So was I. His one good year was at RT. Think this means that if they draft Ramcyzk or Bolles, Flowers will be moved to RT. Or they could draft Robinson or Lamp and try them at RT.
Quote:
I was thinking RT. Most in the larger thread were thinking the same thing.
So was I. His one good year was at RT. Think this means that if they draft Ramcyzk or Bolles, Flowers will be moved to RT. Or they could draft Robinson or Lamp and try them at RT.
Or they think Hart may be the guy..
Flowers - Pugh - Richburg - Fluker - ?
Hitdog42 made some points about Pugh being out injured, Richburg playing hurt, and Flowers losing a little confidence which is not to crazy when you think he is only 22, Hopefully those three improve and Fluker proves he is a upgrade over Newhouse. He also gave some insight into the way the FO is thinking, mainly you don't over pay a FA guard now when you have to negotiate with your own guys in the coming years at the Guard and Center positions.
We still need 1 OL.. maybe we have him in Bobby Hart? Just draft BPA and hope for the best I say.
Quote:
In comment 13389964 Mark from Jersey said:
Quote:
I was thinking RT. Most in the larger thread were thinking the same thing.
So was I. His one good year was at RT. Think this means that if they draft Ramcyzk or Bolles, Flowers will be moved to RT. Or they could draft Robinson or Lamp and try them at RT.
Or they think Hart may be the guy..
Then I think they're engaging in wishful thinking.
I see Fluker as a RT myself.
On a side note, if they go with Hart and Flicker on the right there is presently no depth with Newhouse and Jerry gone.
I think Hart would be a fine backup at tackle, and possibly guard.
Big Blue '56
imo
or
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Lamp
or
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Ramzcyk
or
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Bolles
In any version its better than
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Newhouse/Hart
Although, again if I believe Fluker is a guard, then I'd still be ok with the #23 being our LT and Flowers RT. Thats really up to the coaches to decide.
It would be a bummer passing on a Zack Martin-type OG just because we had Pugh and Fluker though. (Didn't we love Martin in that draft, too?)
I still,hope we draft at least 3 OL guys this year.
Hart has trouble with speed rushers. Newhouse has trouble with all rushers. Neither was particularly good. Hart is 22/23 and Newhouse is 28/29. Chances are Newhouse will not improve. Hart improved dramatically year one into year two at a position the Giants didn't think he could play.
While I tend to agree Hart was rough in the 3 games against speed rushers, he was more than adequate in the others he played. Plus he got down field and when he locked onto a man, it was game over.
I think his feet prevent him from being a starting RT, but his power likely makes him a RG as the Giants intended. I wouldn't quite sell him short at either position.
Two- I think McAdoo gave a strong hint at the combine that the days of Eli or bust on offense are over with his criticisms. He knows that if the Giants are one-dimensional, they have to be perfect and Eli will constantly be ducking and dumping off throws. I think the game plan is to go to the line the majority of the time with a run call- but allow Eli to read the defense and if he sees a mismatch, he can audible to a pass play that will take advantage of the mismatch.
Three- remember that in his prime, Eli was a masterful user of the play action pass. His fakes to the RB were so good that it would freeze rush ends and LB for that critical second while they located the ball. However, because the run game has been non-existent for the past 3 years, the play action became ineffective. Being able to run the ball will buy Eli and his OL more time.
Four- if the Giants can run the ball effectively, teams can no longer just play an upfield attacking defense because it exposes the defense to long runs. It forces the ends to play contain and the LB to hold their ground rather than attack the pocket- and forces at least one S to focus on the run game. In turn, the Giants OL performance would improve- EVEN WITHOUT SUPERIOR BLOCKING- because the defense is not in an all-out attack mode on most downs. Thus, so long as it is not an obvious passing down, the OL gains an advantage of the defense having to respect the run game and playing contain- which means the OL have more time and do not have to block as long.
All of this is a long way of saying that I think Raanan is right- Fluker is going to be the RG- and I think that there is a good possibility that the Giants either get a guy who can play RT and be a road grader in the run game and adequate in pass-protect- or take a BIG chance and bring in someone like Clady to play LT and move Flowers to RT.
By doing so, it allows the Giants to use the draft to grab best players rather than going for need. With that said, I still think that the Giants will use a relatively high pick on at least one OT- but probably not the 1st rounder.
I also think that if the Giants draft a RB who is more of a tough yardage guy and a "balanced" TE (one who blocks and can catch the ball), as fans, we should prepare for a team that will have a completely new identity on offense this year.
Is it that outlandish?
He started there last year. It's entirely plausible they will give him an opportunity to compete for a spot.
I'm not sure how much the Giants like Hart, but I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of him.
Quote:
imo
But your opinion is for shit in this matter because he signed to play guard.
They signed him to play guard, but they also like versatility. Things can absolutely change in camp.
This isn't Madden people.
That means the Giants will either force the pick (unlikely) or choose a developmental OL prospect in rounds 3-5.
Face it. The starters will be (from left to right along the line...)
Flowers
Pugh
Richburg
Fluker
Hart
Giants will hope that Pugh and Richburg get (and stay) healthy...and they'll pray that Flowers, Fluker and Hart somehow get better.
Not to belabor a point, here, or serve as a bad-luck totem, but I've seen sideline shots of the guy during Chargers game when it seems like he's having trouble breathing and is about to keel over. He's very strong. Agile for his size. But I'm not sure if he's healthy. That said , I hope he solidifies both his career and the right side during his one-year patch .
And for what it's worth, Fluker rated lower than Newhouse in PFF ratings.
Same as Pugh ('cept at LG)
I still,hope we draft at least 3 OL guys this year.
I agree but no way does "Who needs a good O-Line" Reese use three picks on the O-Line.
I'll settle for 2, and thank God if we get just 1 good one!
Why tell every other team what position of need remains? If this is true & he is going to play RG, then its obvious Giants priority in the draft is OT.
It may be true, but I think you have to take these reports with a grain of salt