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"What would the Patriots do?"

Ten Ton Hammer : 3/12/2017 3:44 pm
I've see this refrain a lot, whether here, or having to listen to distraught Jets fans on sports radio lamenting every decision any team makes in a Patriots-colored lens.

Every team in the NFL has been trying to copycat the Patriots' success since their first championship with Brady, from poaching coaching staff to raiding the front office, to taking their players. Nobody, and not for lack of trying, can do what they have done with that franchise. There's no easy explanation for it, so it makes me scratch my head when people want things to be done the way the Patriots would do it.

In most cases, they don't pay to keep their players. But the key to that actually working is that they draft well enough, and always find ways to evolve their game approach according to the talent they get.

No, the Patriots wouldn't have tried to keep JPP. They would have traded him a year before his contract was up and not shed a single tear because they'd be confident they didn't need to spend a first round pick on a DE.

This is not to say that they draft perfectly. Their draft record is mottled with misses just like anyone else, but they have an uncanny ability to take players that are not supremely talented and mold their game as a team to fit.

Short of a team kidnapping Bill B, I don't think "look at the Patriots" is a viable roster-managing strategy for anyone else. Sometimes a great coach is just better than everyone else at what he does, and it's not something that can be bottled and duplicated.
It's awful  
UConn4523 : 3/12/2017 3:48 pm : link
and ruins any discussion about the Giants when it's brought up. Give us Belichick the coach and then talk about those signings, until then it's absolutely worthless.
BB & Brady are once in a generation pairing.  
drkenneth : 3/12/2017 3:54 pm : link
You can't just say "Do what the Pats do". That simply isn't viable.

Like when Jerry asked George to teach him to lie like him.

"That's like saying teach me to sing like Pavaratti"
Ten Ton -  
Diver_Down : 3/12/2017 4:07 pm : link
Was this post in response to my reply on the Hurry up and Sign JPP thread? My reply was succinct with WWTPD comparison. Yours has expounded upon the premise so much more eloquently. Just seems uncanny in the timing from my reply on the other thread to the creation of this thread. But in summary, the WWTPD comparison is so tiresome. The Bill Belichick Interactive forum and the constant ball-washing of everything Patriots is nauseating.
RE: BB & Brady are once in a generation pairing.  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/12/2017 4:38 pm : link
In comment 13390401 drkenneth said:
Quote:
You can't just say "Do what the Pats do". That simply isn't viable.

Like when Jerry asked George to teach him to lie like him.

"That's like saying teach me to sing like Pavaratti"


Kraft gave Bill complete control of the program and it's another big reason they win so much.
Don't underestimate the value of  
CT Charlie : 3/12/2017 4:44 pm : link
Ernie Adams. He's been with BB forever, and he may understand the game behind the game as well as anyone.
Great OP  
markky : 3/12/2017 4:45 pm : link
I think that just because you can't duplicate BB/TB you can still learn from their approach. As the OP says, their draft record isn't perfect, yet they still win.

One thing that sticks out to me with the Pats is that they seem to trust all 53 players. Bill tells the players that if you're on the roster you need to expect to play and play at a high level.

How frustrated have people on this board been with players NOT getting into the game? And I think it cuts both ways, giving BB a double advantage:

- he has 53 players that can get on the field, giving him more options.

- he doesn't have people on the roster that he has to hide.

Take Damontre Moore as a negative example. People on this board wanted him to get playing time earlier. But then he turns out to be a tool. I think Bill would have gotten rid of him earlier and put someone on the roster, even a FA, that he could trust.

Take James White as a positive example. 39 carries for the season for 166 yards (by far a career high, about 2.5 carries per game). Decent receiving yards for the season (60 for 551 yards). That's 3.75 catches per game in the season. In the superbowl he gets 14 catches and 3 scores. He also gets 6 carriers in the SB.

I think it makes a big difference to try to build a roster that's 53 deep. There have certainly been players on the Giants the last few years that should have been replaced more aggressively.

RE: BB & Brady are once in a generation pairing.  
Trainmaster : 3/12/2017 5:05 pm : link
Actually, it's more about "Belichick the coach" paired with "Belichick the GM" IMHO.

Brady is obviously a great, future first ballot HOF QB, but the Patriot success is much, much more about Belichick than Brady.

The fact that the Patriots went 11-5 the year Brady was out is overstated as the Patriots played the always weak AFC East plus two very weak at the time (NFC West and AFC West) other divisions. Still, Brady without Belichick would have a much harder time than Belichick without Brady.

RE: Ten Ton -  
Rjanyg : 3/12/2017 5:23 pm : link
In comment 13390413 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
Was this post in response to my reply on the Hurry up and Sign JPP thread? My reply was succinct with WWTPD comparison. Yours has expounded upon the premise so much more eloquently. Just seems uncanny in the timing from my reply on the other thread to the creation of this thread. But in summary, the WWTPD comparison is so tiresome. The Bill Belichick Interactive forum and the constant ball-washing of everything Patriots is nauseating.


Diver,

I get it. My reply in the other thread is about JPP seemingly holding funds hostage in order to retain other players such as Hankins, Robinson and maybe adding Sheard. JPP is not irreplaceable. It is a team sport and while I want JPP to be apart of the Giants, not being able to retain other important pieces could weaken our defense.

The Pats let Collins and Jones go yet not only win the AFC but the Super Bowl. I know Bill and Tom have a lot to do with that but the beauty of the run is about the attitude about the rest of the roster.

I have been on the fence about JPP since the first time he was franchised back in 2015. He is a polarizing player especially since the fireworks accident. I am impressed with his comeback and equally impressed with the Giants loyalty and support they have given to JPP.

I just know New England would have moved on and improved the team while freeing up cap space.
The thing I admire most.....  
Reb8thVA : 3/12/2017 5:23 pm : link
Is Belicheck's supreme confidence. It's not like he hasn't made his share off mistakes and blunders because he has. Nonetheless, he accepts those mistakes as the cost of business and moves on without changing his approach. He's not afraid of trading a Chandler Jones or Jamie Collins or even releasing Lawyer Milloy because he knows he can get some he can plug into his system and get them to do what he needs. You have to admire that.
RE: The thing I admire most.....  
pjcas18 : 3/12/2017 5:27 pm : link
In comment 13390501 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
Is Belicheck's supreme confidence. It's not like he hasn't made his share off mistakes and blunders because he has. Nonetheless, he accepts those mistakes as the cost of business and moves on without changing his approach. He's not afraid of trading a Chandler Jones or Jamie Collins or even releasing Lawyer Milloy because he knows he can get some he can plug into his system and get them to do what he needs. You have to admire that.


He's also one of, if not the only, GM in the league who has built up enough goodwill/capital to make risky moves and not care about the fallout or not worry about the fallout.

Most of the other GM's in the league a decision like trading Chandler Jones and getting essentially nothing back for him is a job-losing transaction.
It's a  
trueblueinpw : 3/12/2017 8:38 pm : link
Hoodie's the GOAT, been breaking down film since he was a boy. If there's anyone as smart as Belichick, maybe smarter, it's Ernie Adams and as noted above, he's been with Hoodie pretty much the whole way. Brady's terrific, he's willing to take less money and take money under the table through his TB12 scam. Kraft is humble and smart enough to keep everyone employed and he really does deserve credit for putting the whole thing together AND keeping it together. Jerry Jones couldn't keep his own ego in check when he had Jimmy and I think Jimmy was as good as Hoodie. Cowboys might still be kicking ass if Jimmy and Jerry found a way to win together.

I don't think you can ignore the cheating. They've been caught red handed and not everyone would be willing to break the rules. And please don't hand me the eveyone cheats line because it's not true.

Plus, the Pats have had incredible good fortune. I get it, chance favors the prepared and I'm NOT saying they're JUST lucky. But they've got to be the most fortunate team in all of sports. That Oakland tuck game, the early and wicked close win against the Rams, Pete Carol with the dumbest call in history and even that sack of Ryan in the last game. Yeah, they were in a position to win and capitalized on the chances and I'm NOT discounting their greatness but they've gotten many good bounces.

Anyway, it ain't some formula that anyone can copy. But, Giants fans should remember that we beat those guys twice and we didn't cheat to win.
RE: It's a  
Diver_Down : 3/12/2017 8:46 pm : link
In comment 13390736 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Hoodie's the GOAT, been breaking down film since he was a boy. If there's anyone as smart as Belichick, maybe smarter, it's Ernie Adams and as noted above, he's been with Hoodie pretty much the whole way. Brady's terrific, he's willing to take less money and take money under the table through his TB12 scam. Kraft is humble and smart enough to keep everyone employed and he really does deserve credit for putting the whole thing together AND keeping it together. Jerry Jones couldn't keep his own ego in check when he had Jimmy and I think Jimmy was as good as Hoodie. Cowboys might still be kicking ass if Jimmy and Jerry found a way to win together.

I don't think you can ignore the cheating. They've been caught red handed and not everyone would be willing to break the rules. And please don't hand me the eveyone cheats line because it's not true.

Plus, the Pats have had incredible good fortune. I get it, chance favors the prepared and I'm NOT saying they're JUST lucky. But they've got to be the most fortunate team in all of sports. That Oakland tuck game, the early and wicked close win against the Rams, Pete Carol with the dumbest call in history and even that sack of Ryan in the last game. Yeah, they were in a position to win and capitalized on the chances and I'm NOT discounting their greatness but they've gotten many good bounces.

Anyway, it ain't some formula that anyone can copy. But, Giants fans should remember that we beat those guys twice and we didn't cheat to win.


And just to piggy-back off your comment, it helps when they are virtually assured the division in September every year. The Bills, Jets, and Dolphins combine for 6 wins on their schedule every year. The task of getting a ticket to the dance is much easier in the AFC East then any other division.
There are lessons that can be taken from their success  
Go Terps : 3/12/2017 10:18 pm : link
It's not just as simple as "Brady and Belichick". It's possible to look at what they are doing and to try to identify and apply some of their tendencies.
RE: Ten Ton -  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/12/2017 11:03 pm : link
In comment 13390413 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
Was this post in response to my reply on the Hurry up and Sign JPP thread? My reply was succinct with WWTPD comparison. Yours has expounded upon the premise so much more eloquently. Just seems uncanny in the timing from my reply on the other thread to the creation of this thread. But in summary, the WWTPD comparison is so tiresome. The Bill Belichick Interactive forum and the constant ball-washing of everything Patriots is nauseating.


Wasn't really directed at anyone in particular. I really have heard this a lot. I had the misfortune of catching Rick DiPietro on his sports radio show, and every other sentence is 'Look at the patriots' while discussing the Jets and Giants. Teams have tried to operate that way and simply don't make it work. It's not just Brady, though a stable QB situation helps a lot. Nobody seems to be able to maintain the managerial style. The closest thing might have the 2000-era eagles, where they made ruthless business decisions with their talent, and even they could only sustain it for so long once their team kept coming up short, and they lost too many good players.
One thing I admire is that  
JerryNYG : 3/13/2017 8:57 am : link
it seems the system changes to fit the personnel rather than expecting players to mold themselves to a static system.
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