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With the mammoth offensive linemen now on the team

yatqb : 3/13/2017 12:01 pm
I wonder if Cam Robinson is a more attractive candidate at 23 than many of us have thought.

I see him as a capable player in the running game, but as a very inconsistent pass blocker who will lean and lose balance quite a bit, ala Flowers (and similar in that regard to Rod Johnson of FSU).

Bu perhaps we are content with those shortcomings, and determined to develop a reliable running game. The additions of Ellison and Marshall certainly aid in that.

I wonder if, supposing that Robinson is a target, the next move they make would be to land a QB who is far more mobile than Eli with eyes to the future.

Lots of hypotheticals here, I know, but it's where my mind takes me after the Fluker signing.
I think he could drop  
Andy in Boston : 3/13/2017 12:06 pm : link
into the 2nd round. If that' happens, I think Giants would have to think seriously about trading up to get him in the 2nd...as the value is there. Especially if they can get Howard or Njoku in the 1st.
He play well against Myles Garrett  
rasbutant : 3/13/2017 12:12 pm : link
I could see the Giants liking Antonio Garcia as well. Hasn't been talked about as a 1st Rounder, but it just seems like a Giants kind of pick to me.
Why would the Giants be making long term plans  
YAJ2112 : 3/13/2017 12:15 pm : link
based on the signing of one player to a one year contract?
They need to clear the red flags  
JonC : 3/13/2017 12:19 pm : link
which are often worse than the public is aware of.
I know OL is a concern  
pjcas18 : 3/13/2017 12:23 pm : link
but if the Giants take an OL at 23, they will have used 3 of their past 5 1st round picks on OL (Robinson (if taken), Flowers, and Pugh), plus a 2nd (Richburg). I don't think there is a team in the NFL with more (or even as much) premium draft pick investment in the OL.

Without, so far, great results.

I think the OL has to be fixed with FA's (like Fluker) and development of the current players (like Hart, Jones, even Flowers) or later round picks than the 1st.

too much premium, cost-controlled, resources in one position neglects others.

Reese hates to go into a draft having to draft a specific position, he likes to position the Giants for draft flexibility, but I wouldn't be surprised based on the lack of quality talent and needs elsewhere on the team if Reese goes into the draft with a no OL at 23 philosophy.

though, I also wouldn't be completely shocked if he took an OL, just because that player falls, but I will be at least mildly surprised.
I could see them taking him  
jeff57 : 3/13/2017 12:24 pm : link
.
JonC  
Marty866b : 3/13/2017 12:29 pm : link
Has got this right. There are many schools that MAY have not Robinson even play this year after his arrest.
if what the consensus says is correct  
idiotsavant : 3/13/2017 12:33 pm : link
then Lamp might make a heck of a left guard, with Pugh at left tackle .
RE: Why would the Giants be making long term plans  
yatqb : 3/13/2017 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13391261 YAJ2112 said:
Quote:
based on the signing of one player to a one year contract?


YAJ, you make a valid point. Marty, do you know anything more than has been reported about that arrest? Remind me of the details.
not having looked at players this year  
idiotsavant : 3/13/2017 12:37 pm : link
it seems inherent in the concept of left tackle at 23 that there is a much higher degree of bust risk than there is at left guard at 23.

and, as I said I have not looked at players, but consensus plus 2 seconds watching the combine, Lamp looks like a real beast in terms of his lower legs and forearms, old school.
RE: They need to clear the red flags  
jeff57 : 3/13/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13391271 JonC said:
Quote:
which are often worse than the public is aware of.


Supposedly impressed teams with his interviews at the combine. FWIW.
I'd love Robinson at #23 - he could play T or G for us  
PatersonPlank : 3/13/2017 12:44 pm : link
I would be happy with Robinson, Lamp, Bolles, or Ramzcyk (if he checks outs medically). Any of these could step in and play RT next year.
my gut says Lamp  
idiotsavant : 3/13/2017 12:54 pm : link
my 'jerry radar' says Bolles
RE: I know OL is a concern  
Andy in Boston : 3/13/2017 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13391281 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but if the Giants take an OL at 23, they will have used 3 of their past 5 1st round picks on OL (Robinson (if taken), Flowers, and Pugh), plus a 2nd (Richburg). I don't think there is a team in the NFL with more (or even as much) premium draft pick investment in the OL.

Without, so far, great results.

I think the OL has to be fixed with FA's (like Fluker) and development of the current players (like Hart, Jones, even Flowers) or later round picks than the 1st.

too much premium, cost-controlled, resources in one position neglects others.

Reese hates to go into a draft having to draft a specific position, he likes to position the Giants for draft flexibility, but I wouldn't be surprised based on the lack of quality talent and needs elsewhere on the team if Reese goes into the draft with a no OL at 23 philosophy.

though, I also wouldn't be completely shocked if he took an OL, just because that player falls, but I will be at least mildly surprised.



I agree 100%. The pick at #23 will be who the Giants think is the best player there that can have an immediate impact. (offense or defense).
RE: I know OL is a concern  
allstarjim : 3/13/2017 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13391281 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but if the Giants take an OL at 23, they will have used 3 of their past 5 1st round picks on OL (Robinson (if taken), Flowers, and Pugh), plus a 2nd (Richburg). I don't think there is a team in the NFL with more (or even as much) premium draft pick investment in the OL.

Without, so far, great results.

I think the OL has to be fixed with FA's (like Fluker) and development of the current players (like Hart, Jones, even Flowers) or later round picks than the 1st.

too much premium, cost-controlled, resources in one position neglects others.

Reese hates to go into a draft having to draft a specific position, he likes to position the Giants for draft flexibility, but I wouldn't be surprised based on the lack of quality talent and needs elsewhere on the team if Reese goes into the draft with a no OL at 23 philosophy.

though, I also wouldn't be completely shocked if he took an OL, just because that player falls, but I will be at least mildly surprised.


I think they should go OL in the first if Ramcyzk or Bolles is there (and RR's hip checks out). Investment in the lines is how you win in the NFL.

Bolles seems very undersized for an OT.  
yatqb : 3/13/2017 1:10 pm : link
Good arm length but light. How much weight can he put on, and how quickly can he get stronger?
Also - Dallas  
allstarjim : 3/13/2017 1:12 pm : link
Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin, all first rounders, and remember La'el Collins was supposedly a first round talent (or borderline 2nd).
RE: Bolles seems very undersized for an OT.  
allstarjim : 3/13/2017 1:18 pm : link
In comment 13391359 yatqb said:
Quote:
Good arm length but light. How much weight can he put on, and how quickly can he get stronger?


Overblown issue. He can add... he's 297 lbs now, great, great feet... something we need. Has the attitude. He may need some work in getting a little stronger, I'm confident he can be ready by week 1 in that department. Long arms, 6'5"... I think he'll be just fine. He's right about the same size as Terron Armstead was when he came out... he's now one of the best LT's in the game.
RE: Also - Dallas  
pjcas18 : 3/13/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13391364 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin, all first rounders, and remember La'el Collins was supposedly a first round talent (or borderline 2nd).


but he wasn't (Collins), he was a UDFA and the investment is different.

I believe you need to be solid in the trenches to win, but I go through this exercise every year. Look at the playoff teams from last year. Look at their OL's. I'll just do the final 4, but you can look at the other 8 and the results aren't much different except for Dallas, who won 0 playoff games.

New England:
LT Solder (1st)
LG Thuney (3rd)
OC Andrews (UDFA)
RG Mason (4th)
RT Cannon (5th)

Atlanta:
LT Matthews (1st)
LG Levitre (UFA)
OC Mack (UFA)
RG Chester (UFA)
RT Schrader (UDFA)

Steelers:
LT Villanueva (UDFA)
LG Foster (UDFA)
OC Pouncey (1st)
RG Decastro (1st)
RT Gilbert (2nd)

Green Bay:
LT Bakthari (4th)
LG Taylor (UDFA)
OC Linsley (5th)/Tretter (4th)
RG Lang (4th)
RT Bulaga (1st)

I agree there is probably a correlation between OL play and winning, but there isn't one between high draft picks on the OL and winning, in fact I'd say you could make a case for FA investment being a better choice of investment than draft picks on the OL.

I don't want  
lugnut : 3/13/2017 1:43 pm : link
the Giants to go OL in first round because I just don't think they're very good at it. Even our "good" pick in that area, Pugh, has switched from OT to G, which is a big drop in value.

Them going RB in round one makes me nervous too. I would trust them going WR, DE, CB, and maybe TE.
I would be all in on Robinson at 23  
sjnyfan : 3/13/2017 3:35 pm : link
I think the hate has gone too far on him and he has far better technique than Flowers, which is most important. He's started every game from day one as a true freshman, 43 straight. He's paying the price for busts like the Kouandjio brothers and our recently signed DJ Fluker. Robinson is a far better athlete.

There isn't an offensive lineman in this draft that went up against a tougher group of edge rushers than Robinson this past season. He held Myles Garrett in check without allowing a sack, hurry or committing a penalty. He faced Derek Barnett, a first rounder as well as Carl Lawson, a Day 2 pick. Not to mention several other pass rushers who will be drafted in years to come. Do I like him as much as Conklin last year? No, but 23 is too low for Robinson. If he falls to us we would be lucky to have him, especially with our OL woes. He would be a day one starter for us, just as he was when he arrived in Tuscaloosa.
RE: I know OL is a concern  
5BowlsSoon : 3/13/2017 4:06 pm : link
In comment 13391281 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but if the Giants take an OL at 23, they will have used 3 of their past 5 1st round picks on OL (Robinson (if taken), Flowers, and Pugh), plus a 2nd (Richburg). I don't think there is a team in the NFL with more (or even as much) premium draft pick investment in the OL.

Without, so far, great results.

I think the OL has to be fixed with FA's (like Fluker) and development of the current players (like Hart, Jones, even Flowers) or later round picks than the 1st.

too much premium, cost-controlled, resources in one position neglects others.

Reese hates to go into a draft having to draft a specific position, he likes to position the Giants for draft flexibility, but I wouldn't be surprised based on the lack of quality talent and needs elsewhere on the team if Reese goes into the draft with a no OL at 23 philosophy.

though, I also wouldn't be completely shocked if he took an OL, just because that player falls, but I will be at least mildly surprised.


It doesn't matter how many OL guys we have taken in the past five years. If we have a need you address it as best as you can. With free agency, we picked up about 6 defensive players last year so no need to think we have to draft a defensive player to balance out our draft picks from prior year.

Each year should stand on its own. We should have a priority list and base our draft on that, not on what we have done the past five years.

So, what are our needs? OL has to be number one. We also cannot assume DJ Fluker solves any problem because he might not. And what if a starter goes down for the year? Do we have capable backups? OL should be pick 23 without a doubt UNLESS someone is surprisingly there we didn't expect and he is a BEAST waiting to happen. (For example, Another Zeke Elliot or some highly touted qb)
RE: RE: Also - Dallas  
5BowlsSoon : 3/13/2017 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13391416 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13391364 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin, all first rounders, and remember La'el Collins was supposedly a first round talent (or borderline 2nd).



but he wasn't (Collins), he was a UDFA and the investment is different.

I believe you need to be solid in the trenches to win, but I go through this exercise every year. Look at the playoff teams from last year. Look at their OL's. I'll just do the final 4, but you can look at the other 8 and the results aren't much different except for Dallas, who won 0 playoff games.

New England:
LT Solder (1st)
LG Thuney (3rd)
OC Andrews (UDFA)
RG Mason (4th)
RT Cannon (5th)

Atlanta:
LT Matthews (1st)
LG Levitre (UFA)
OC Mack (UFA)
RG Chester (UFA)
RT Schrader (UDFA)

Steelers:
LT Villanueva (UDFA)
LG Foster (UDFA)
OC Pouncey (1st)
RG Decastro (1st)
RT Gilbert (2nd)

Green Bay:
LT Bakthari (4th)
LG Taylor (UDFA)
OC Linsley (5th)/Tretter (4th)
RG Lang (4th)
RT Bulaga (1st)

I agree there is probably a correlation between OL play and winning, but there isn't one between high draft picks on the OL and winning, in fact I'd say you could make a case for FA investment being a better choice of investment than draft picks on the OL.


Wow, this surprises me. We all know Dallas is a line of high picks, but these teams, especially Atl is amazing.
RE: my gut says Lamp  
BMac : 3/13/2017 5:37 pm : link
In comment 13391336 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
my 'jerry radar' says Bolles


I'd be shocked if the 1st pick isn't a DE/CB/WR. It'll mean that either someone unexpected dropped or there was an early run on a particular position.
Dion Dawkins @ 56  
WillVAB : 3/13/2017 6:34 pm : link
My guess is BPA at 23 and Dawkins in the 2nd -- and I'd be good with that.

Njoku or Howard would be fine in the 1st. My preference would be to kill two birds with one stone and get a pass rusher who can slide in at DT on passing downs -- like Takk McKinley or the Stanford kid.
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