Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Dalvin Cook

Stan in LA : 3/13/2017 2:45 pm
Falling big time. Worth a look?

Quote:
Very few top prospects come out of the NFL combine and simply don't match up to the player everyone saw during the previous season. Sure, a few concern areas may pop up. However, most individuals are who they are.

This is why Dalvin Cook's workout is so befuddling.

At Florida State, Cook looked like one of college football's most explosive runners. He needed to be defended as if he was going to score a touchdown every time he touched the ball, because he could.

Yet his workout fell well short of every expectation. What's most concerning is how poor he fared in change-of-direction drills. According to Mockdraftable.com, his times in both the three-cone and short shuttle were among the bottom 10 percent of running backs since the league started to reveal the workout numbers.

This is one of those instances where teams need to go back to their previous evaluations and make sure they're comfortable with Cook. When those concerns are added to his off-the-field issues and fumbling problems, Florida State's all-time leading rusher may no longer be considered a top-tier running back prospect.





Link - ( New Window )
Might not get past Philly  
The_Boss : 3/13/2017 2:47 pm : link
They're looking to surround Wentz with more talent and their RB cupboard is bare.
If he miraculously falls to #23...  
M.S. : 3/13/2017 2:55 pm : link

...grab him IMMEDIATELY!!!
I'd be all over Cook if he fell to us.  
arcarsenal : 3/13/2017 2:56 pm : link
.
Yes please.  
Mike from SI : 3/13/2017 2:57 pm : link
Performance on field > workout numbers.
RE: If he miraculously falls to #23...  
djm : 3/13/2017 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13391570 M.S. said:
Quote:

...grab him IMMEDIATELY!!!


But he's not an OLinman...how will you hold up?
RE: Yes please.  
GiantsLaw : 3/13/2017 3:09 pm : link
In comment 13391576 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
Performance on field > workout numbers.
I agree, somewhat. Workout numbers are very important for RBs because at the next level he'll be trying to make superior athletes miss. Lack of agility is a huge red flag as teams need to make sure he wasn't simply running through a wide open hole. I don't proclaim to know either way but the scouts need to make sure he can create in the NFL against Dlinemen that are possibly more agile than he is.
First, Cook ran a pretty good 4.49 40  
Ira : 3/13/2017 3:10 pm : link
Second while the times on the 3 cone and the shuttles weren't good, they don't measure instinct. Cook knows when to cut and he does it very well. Third, Cook had a pretty good bench press of 22 reps, not bad for a little quick guy. My biggest concern with him is his fumbling.
And his agility and burst metrics weren't just below average  
GiantsLaw : 3/13/2017 3:11 pm : link
they were horrendous
I would have some reservations  
bigblue12 : 3/13/2017 3:14 pm : link
In addition to the poor workout, he has fumble problems, major injury concerns and I believe I have read that he might have some off the field concerns as well.
Am I going to trust the combine or his last 2 game films vs. Clemson?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/13/2017 3:19 pm : link
Hmmmm?
Btw  
GiantsLaw : 3/13/2017 3:22 pm : link
If you want to, and have the time....
Dalvin Cook film study - ( New Window )
RE: I would have some reservations  
section125 : 3/13/2017 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13391615 bigblue12 said:
Quote:
In addition to the poor workout, he has fumble problems, major injury concerns and I believe I have read that he might have some off the field concerns as well.


He fumbled as a freshman. The workout means nothing, probably never trained for it. The only thing I see is that he comes out of games frequently (Conditioning?) or was Jimbo just spelling him because he has above avg backups?

Just look at game films against the best teams FSU played.
RE: RE: I would have some reservations  
Section331 : 3/13/2017 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13391646 section125 said:
Quote:
The workout means nothing, probably never trained for it.


What does that say about him? Would you hire somebody who was woefully unprepared for the interview? This was his chance to make a good impression on NFL personnel guys, and he couldn't be bothered to prepare?

I get that some of the combine events don't necessarily translate to the field, but if he wasn't willing to put in a little effort to be ready for the combine, why would anyone think he'd prepare after he signs a contract?
If I have to choose between a Combine workout . . . .  
TC : 3/13/2017 3:42 pm : link
and my eyes, I'll take my eyes every time.

If he slides into the 3rd round because of that workout, I think a team would be foolish not to grab him ASAP.
RE: Btw  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/13/2017 3:43 pm : link
In comment 13391635 GiantsLaw said:
Quote:
If you want to, and have the time.... Dalvin Cook film study - ( New Window )


He clearly needs to be more consistent with his pass protection, but that's true of 98% of the RBs who enter the pros now. One interesting thing watching this video is he'd probably be better in a Giants-style offense than in the traditional 2 back set he was in so much with FSU.
Watching the tape  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/13/2017 3:44 pm : link
He doesn't seem to be a guy who can make something out of nothing, but he reads the blocks really, really well and has a pretty devastating first cut. Very efficient, no wasted effort. Almost never moving laterally, his cuts are at 45 degrees so he is still moving upfield. If he hits the second level he is scary. Based solely on his combine, he is a much better football player than an athlete.
RE: RE: I would have some reservations  
ajr2456 : 3/13/2017 3:45 pm : link
In comment 13391646 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13391615 bigblue12 said:


Quote:


In addition to the poor workout, he has fumble problems, major injury concerns and I believe I have read that he might have some off the field concerns as well.




He fumbled as a freshman. The workout means nothing, probably never trained for it. The only thing I see is that he comes out of games frequently (Conditioning?) or was Jimbo just spelling him because he has above avg backups?

Just look at game films against the best teams FSU played.


The latter. Jimbo prefers to not overwork his RB's.
I'd definitely have reservations  
PatersonPlank : 3/13/2017 3:56 pm : link
There are a lot of highly regarded players from big programs who simply aren't that good. They get surrounded by the best talent and look good, but take away the supporting cast and they dont match up. USC QBs are famous for this. Guys like Leinert, Sanchez, etc. They get 10 minutes to throw because of their OL, their receivers are always open, and they run the ball well. Compare that to a guy like Cutler who played at Vandy. He was always getting killed because they sucked, yet he led them to a number of wins. Put Leinert on Vandy and he probably doesn't even get drafted.

That's why the combine is a big deal.
RE: I'd definitely have reservations  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/13/2017 3:59 pm : link
In comment 13391734 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
There are a lot of highly regarded players from big programs who simply aren't that good. They get surrounded by the best talent and look good, but take away the supporting cast and they dont match up. USC QBs are famous for this. Guys like Leinert, Sanchez, etc. They get 10 minutes to throw because of their OL, their receivers are always open, and they run the ball well. Compare that to a guy like Cutler who played at Vandy. He was always getting killed because they sucked, yet he led them to a number of wins. Put Leinert on Vandy and he probably doesn't even get drafted.

That's why the combine is a big deal.


Watch the video that was posted... probably the biggest thing that sticks out is how GOD-awful the QB play is (and you're not even supposed to be focused on that). The o-line isn't exactly anything to write home about either.
Here's  
AcidTest : 3/13/2017 4:02 pm : link
what will happen:

He'll be available at #23.
Reese will pass.
BBI will MELTDOWN.

Guaranteed.
Something must be up.  
bronxgiant : 3/13/2017 4:13 pm : link
Having seen Cook play in High School at Miami Central and at FSU the workouts was not the same player. Cook was faster than 4.5 even in HS. Actually play CB and RB he shared with Joe Yearby. Cook was known for his speed. If the Giants get a shot at him I hope they wouldn't pass. Kid is a gamebreaker. FSU's line was nothing to write home about. Don't think too many players have caught him from behind in HS or college.
Off the field concerns  
jeff57 : 3/13/2017 4:51 pm : link
Worry me.
RE: RE: RE: I would have some reservations  
section125 : 3/13/2017 5:00 pm : link
In comment 13391657 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13391646 section125 said:


Quote:


The workout means nothing, probably never trained for it.



What does that say about him? Would you hire somebody who was woefully unprepared for the interview? This was his chance to make a good impression on NFL personnel guys, and he couldn't be bothered to prepare?

I get that some of the combine events don't necessarily translate to the field, but if he wasn't willing to put in a little effort to be ready for the combine, why would anyone think he'd prepare after he signs a contract?


So, you pass on the best RB in the draft because of the combine? Shoot yourself. Conversely, how many workout warriors fail immediately in the NFL? Numbers work both ways. Question is, will there be a FSU Pro Day?

If Cook is available at 23, he's money. He's not making it to 20 I doubt he makes it to 15, so you won't have to worry.
Looking at Reese's strategy  
Aup155 : 3/13/2017 6:00 pm : link
As of late, what has been the one consistent intangible that we kept hearing about the guys that they drafted? High character, clean guys. Now you look at Cook and you say, does he check the boxes. You look at the game film and you see a guy who felt like he was going to the house every time he touched the ball. There is no questioning his talent. However, you also have to look at the entire player profile, which means you do have to talk about the multiple off the field issues that he has been involved in, from which he has been cleared off yes nonetheless still a part of his player resume, he's had fumbling issues, and injuries as well. You look at the lack luster combine numbers and say, ok maybe he's not as explosive as we thought he was. Now you add a very almost boring pro day and now you're hearing scouts saying that it was very underwhelming. Someone will take him for sure there is no doubt he has talent. I just don't think the Giants are as high on him because of the character issues.
Rather take  
OC2.0 : 3/13/2017 6:09 pm : link
Mixon or Foreman later
RE: Looking at Reese's strategy  
section125 : 3/13/2017 6:11 pm : link
In comment 13392019 Aup155 s Now you add a very almost boring pro day and now you're hearing scouts saying that it was very underwhelming. Someone will take him for sure there is no doubt he has talent. I just don't think the Giants are as high on him because of the character issues. [/quote]

FSU's Pro Day is March 28th, so what lackluster pro day are you talking about or are you speculating that he will or might have one?

I agree that character issues (whatever they were) maybe be the nail in the coffin as far as the Giants are concerned.
The fumbling was a concern in his freshman year, so that does not bother me that much.

I still don't think he will be there at #23. TE or DE are probably more likely choices.
RE: Something must be up.  
GiantsLaw : 3/13/2017 8:12 pm : link
In comment 13391812 bronxgiant said:
Quote:
Having seen Cook play in High School at Miami Central and at FSU the workouts was not the same player. Cook was faster than 4.5 even in HS. Actually play CB and RB he shared with Joe Yearby. Cook was known for his speed. If the Giants get a shot at him I hope they wouldn't pass. Kid is a gamebreaker. FSU's line was nothing to write home about. Don't think too many players have caught him from behind in HS or college.
I tend to agree with this. The numbers were so bad, they just don't equate to what I've seen on the field. You'd think at least his agent would've tried to spin it at least. Say he had the flu or something.
Cook is head and shoulders  
Sy'56 : 3/13/2017 9:30 pm : link
is a top 10 player in this class. Yes, of course you take him.
^^^  
allstarjim : 3/13/2017 11:26 pm : link
What Sy said. And, I might add... one thing the combine doesn't measure is vision. We saw a RB that had none (Andre Williams), and Dalvin Cook's vision is phenomenal.

The difference between Cook and a guy like McCaffrey is that while McCaffrey was piling up most of his yardage against 4 of the worst defenses in FBS, Cook was tormenting the best defenses in the nation. Look what he did to Michigan, to Florida, to Clemson, to Miami... to Boston College (very good game, and don't laugh, BC was one of the best run-stopping defenses in FBS last year... ranked 7th).

Cook is a great, not just good, player. And I'm not trying to knock McCaffrey, because I think he'll be a good player, but he got more than half of his rushing yards (822 of 1603) against Oregon, Oregon State, California, and Rice... all 4 teams in the bottom 20% of defenses in the nation last year. In fairness to Ed's kid, he also had great games against USC (38th in the country in rushing against), and Kansas State (12th). But if you throw in Arizona, ranked 83rd of 128 FBS teams in rush defense, McCaffrey got 991 of his 1603 rushing yards against bottom feeding defenses. I mean, California was next to last. that leaves 612 yards against the other 6 teams on his schedule, which came out to 102 yards rushing per game at a 5.1 average... still very respectable.

Only reason I'm making this lengthy comparison is because I know the calls for McCaffrey over Cook are coming, and to me they aren't that close.
When and what were Cook's off the field incidents?  
Torrag : 3/14/2017 12:17 am : link
He's a great football player. We all know the Giants are sticklers for good citizens in the early rounds. They've never taken a 1st Round player with behavioral red flags Ever.
RE: Looking at Reese's strategy  
ajr2456 : 3/14/2017 12:50 am : link
In comment 13392019 Aup155 said:
Quote:
As of late, what has been the one consistent intangible that we kept hearing about the guys that they drafted? High character, clean guys. Now you look at Cook and you say, does he check the boxes. You look at the game film and you see a guy who felt like he was going to the house every time he touched the ball. There is no questioning his talent. However, you also have to look at the entire player profile, which means you do have to talk about the multiple off the field issues that he has been involved in, from which he has been cleared off yes nonetheless still a part of his player resume, he's had fumbling issues, and injuries as well. You look at the lack luster combine numbers and say, ok maybe he's not as explosive as we thought he was. Now you add a very almost boring pro day and now you're hearing scouts saying that it was very underwhelming. Someone will take him for sure there is no doubt he has talent. I just don't think the Giants are as high on him because of the character issues.


So if you're accused and it turns out the accusations are false, that's still a strike against you?
FYI, I googled Cook's  
section125 : 3/14/2017 8:12 am : link
issues.

The bad one is allegedly punching a girl outside a bar. But he was acquitted at trial. Looks like a very drunk girl got into several incidents and then fell and accused Cook of punching her.
Cook off field issues - ( New Window )
Cook's off field incidents.  
section125 : 3/14/2017 8:14 am : link
Battery article of acquittal.

Has the ring of the Duke Lacrosse team charges.
Cook battery charge. - ( New Window )
Dalvin Cook to giants per ringer mock  
Joey from GlenCove : 3/14/2017 10:27 am : link
-
Ringer Mock - ( New Window )
RE: RE: If he miraculously falls to #23...  
M.S. : 3/14/2017 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13391599 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13391570 M.S. said:


Quote:



...grab him IMMEDIATELY!!!



But he's not an OLinman...how will you hold up?

Round #2 / 55th Selection: O-Line
Round #3 / 87th Selection: O-Line
Round #4 / 140th Selection: O-Line
Round #5 / 167th Selection: O-Line
Round #6 / 207th Selection: O-Line
Round #7 / 241st Selection: O-Line

{:-) {:-) {:-) {:-) {:-)
Back to the Corner