Flowers Pugh Richburg Jerry Hart. Add one blocking TE.
Flucker is a swing tackle if he can't beat out Jerry which he can't. Jerry is better at Pass Protection.
I feel sorry for Eli. This Front Office strategy that you don't have to pay for a good Oline is going to get him killed.
Fluker will start at either RG or RT. Either I'd still draft a T at #23.
I don't want to be mistaken for that Jerry troll, but he's absolutely a better (less bad?) player than Fluker just by virtue of having shown he's usually okay in pass pro (while being an awful run blocker) while Fluker has shown himself to be bad at everything other than being versatile (which makes him, at his money, a fine back-up signing).
He is definitely the starting and "best" RG on this team in 2017, with the parts as they currently look to be.
It's that Reese is okay with coming in with the same exact o-line as last year. He's actually fine with Flowers as our incumbent LT. He just gave Jerry 4 mil guaranteed to be a backup or starter if that bust Fluker busts out here like he did in San Diego. I'm sorry but that's just unforgivable when your franchise QB is 36 and has zero mobility.
too much. Would have moved on for that kind of money. No one else was interested. Only possible reason to do this is if they think Pugh will leave after this season. 7 OL now. 8 max, so room for one more on the final roster.
He can be counted on to play 16 games. He won't be going to any Pro-Bowls, but either is anyone else on our line. I'd draft Pugh's replacement and let everyone duke it out. If the rookie comes along and shows some talent in OTAs, then cut Pugh. We'll gain $5 mil in this year's cap just by the difference between Pugh's 5th year option and what Jerry signed for.
It's that Reese is okay with coming in with the same exact o-line as last year. He's actually fine with Flowers as our incumbent LT. He just gave Jerry 4 mil guaranteed to be a backup or starter if that bust Fluker busts out here like he did in San Diego. I'm sorry but that's just unforgivable when your franchise QB is 36 and has zero mobility.
OK, what would you like Jerry to do...trade Beckham for Tyron Smith?
He can be counted on to play 16 games. He won't be going to any Pro-Bowls, but either is anyone else on our line. I'd draft Pugh's replacement and let everyone duke it out. If the rookie comes along and shows some talent in OTAs, then cut Pugh. We'll gain $5 mil in this year's cap just by the difference between Pugh's 5th year option and what Jerry signed for.
go with up front, and if you believe in Flowers and Hart, o-line can quickly become a strength with solid depth.
Richburg starts at C.
Pugh can play LG or LT.
Flowers can play LT or RT.
Fluker can play RG or RT.
Plus you have Hart, Jerry and a potential early draft pick. After the signings of Fluker and Jerry though, I don't think you'll see an OL with a first round pick.
I still think McAdoo would like one of the TEs or McCaffrey. We'll see.
the only lineman worth a damn this period were Whitworth and Zeitler, and there's just no way in hell we were paying them that they got. Based on our cap, our own players, and our need to draft and develop young OL talent, we weren't even in consideration for that.
We need to beef up the line with competition and talent. Fluker was a solid move in that direction. Jerry isn't a world beater but he knows the offense and can be a good veteran on the club for young OL that we draft.
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
He can be counted on to play 16 games. He won't be going to any Pro-Bowls, but either is anyone else on our line. I'd draft Pugh's replacement and let everyone duke it out. If the rookie comes along and shows some talent in OTAs, then cut Pugh. We'll gain $5 mil in this year's cap just by the difference between Pugh's 5th year option and what Jerry signed for.
Cut Pugh 😂
Worse post of the day
I look forward to your post after his extension at 10 mil/year and he misses his first game to keep his injury streak alive. The reality is that as Giants fans we overvalue the talent on this team and fall in love with draft picks. But if Pugh was on any other team and hit FA with his injury history and then signed for 10mil/yr with the Giants, Reese would be killed.
RE: Some of you are such whiners when it comes to the OL
He got way too much shit on this board. The guy is an average OL. Below-average run blocking, above-average pass blocking. He is what he is. At the very least, we have competition on the right side now, and a competent backup regardless of who wins.
I very much doubt we are done adding the OL as well. There is this whole thing called the NFL Draft coming up. I have no problem with this signing.
Brutal... Jerry? I have to watch his pathetic ass for 3 more years? It isnt too comforting knowing 4/5 of the same OL starters will be back at their positions, especially Flowers back at LT and Jerry at RG..
minus a miracle the Giants OL will suck again next year.
This team is like 5 days into the new calendar year. They have the rest of FA, the draft, June 1st cuts, not to mention another whole offseason program to develop and re-shape the roster and yet Dave in Hoboken KNOWS the OL will suck again next year!
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
God forbid that I suggest that the team may not have been as good as their 11-5 record indicated and that a few bounces here or there and things could easily have been different. I'm sorry I have a much different opinion of the state of this team than the learned cognoscenti here. God this place has become insufferable.
minus a miracle the Giants OL will suck again next year.
This team is like 5 days into the new calendar year. They have the rest of FA, the draft, June 1st cuts, not to mention another whole offseason program to develop and re-shape the roster and yet Dave in Hoboken KNOWS the OL will suck again next year!
Makes sense, Got it!
Dude, they're bringing back 4 out of 5 players from last year's line. We're not drafting some blue chip OT at #23 or in the later rounds who's coming in ready to play and dominate from year 1, barring something extremely unforeseen. I didn't say it wasn't possible for them to improve..
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
the Patriots have won 6 Super Bowls? And could have beaten the '86 Bears?
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
God forbid that I suggest that the team may not have been as good as their 11-5 record indicated and that a few bounces here or there and things could easily have been different. I'm sorry I have a much different opinion of the state of this team than the learned cognoscenti here. God this place has become insufferable.
That's the whole point. A few bounces here and there and many(most?) teams records would/could be different..Those are facts for MOST/ALL teams, so not understanding this particular point of yours given that's what happens in ALL sports..Why be so defensive? I never considered myself a "learned cognoscenti."
Yes. I think Fluker will be a major upgrade from Newhouse. I like Hart as the 6th OL. Drafting a OL is still pretty important. But this looks like the opening day OL.
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
the Patriots have won 6 Super Bowls? And could have beaten the '86 Bears?
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
the Patriots have won 6 Super Bowls? And could have beaten the '86 Bears?
Ereck Flowers, D.J. Fluker, Bobby Hart, Michael Bowie, Justin Pugh, Adam Gettis, Jon Halapio, Martin Wallace, Weston Richburg, Brett Jones and Khaled Holmes.
As I count it, that is five guys that can play some (maybe 6 with Jones) and a bunch of guys who could appear on a milk carton. So signing Jerry can't possibly be a bad thing. Hopefully he never sees the field (because there are five guys who are better), but injuries do happen and you need guys like this.
Would we all like to have signed a bunch of all-pros for vet minimum? Sure but that isn't the way it works. Frankly, I don't love Jerry, but I am not sure I would like Jon Halapio, Martin Wallace or Khaled Holmes a lot better.
For all the shit the OL gets for last season, the skill positions were AWFUL.
Eli can mask alot of skill position deficiencies, but even he did not have his best season last year.
Let's see this offensive line can do with legitimate TEs, RBs and more weapons like Marshall and hopefully some early draft picks at skill positions.
Your insinuation that skill positions will improve the OL's pass blocking is backwards. The ball starts in the QBs hands and is distributed from there.
But they better not have any grandiose ideas of giving him his RG gig back. He can't run block, I'd like to see the Mauling Mountie be the number one interior lineman coming off the bench. In fairness to Jerry, he was originally signed as a depth guy and got pushed into a starting role because of personnel neglect by JR.
For all the shit the OL gets for last season, the skill positions were AWFUL.
Your insinuation that skill positions will improve the OL's pass blocking is backwards. The ball starts in the QBs hands and is distributed from there.
The skill positions were not winning their matchups early last year. Better skill position play reduces the amount of time the QB has to hold the ball and the line has to hold their blocks.
In comment 13391855 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
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In comment 13391841 Brown Recluse said:
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In comment 13391820 Chris684 said:
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For all the shit the OL gets for last season, the skill positions were AWFUL.
Your insinuation that skill positions will improve the OL's pass blocking is backwards. The ball starts in the QBs hands and is distributed from there.
The skill positions were not winning their matchups early last year. Better skill position play reduces the amount of time the QB has to hold the ball and the line has to hold their blocks.
Give him credit, he did the work necessary to become a better player.
Perhaps we will see more improvement this off season.
he didn't become a better Run blocker! He was stood up at the line by Linebackers and Safeties. He has no technique and can not push off. He becomes something you have to run around not through. 11 games went right to Reese's head.
to develop an offensive line. If two 1's and a 2 are not a solid foundation, there was not much could be done this off season to fix that.
None of the free agent OL warranted the type of money they were commanding.
Reese should be held accountable for the mess this line was last season, but I don't know what he could have done differently this off season than what he has done.
In comment 13391855 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
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In comment 13391841 Brown Recluse said:
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In comment 13391820 Chris684 said:
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For all the shit the OL gets for last season, the skill positions were AWFUL.
Your insinuation that skill positions will improve the OL's pass blocking is backwards. The ball starts in the QBs hands and is distributed from there.
The skill positions were not winning their matchups early last year. Better skill position play reduces the amount of time the QB has to hold the ball and the line has to hold their blocks.
Eli got the ball out faster than all but one other QB (out of 40 qualifying) last season.
He needs to be allowed to and have the confidence to get it out less quickly, if anything, not quicker. Even with likely better skill players.
RE: RE: The guy worked hard last off season and improved
Give him credit, he did the work necessary to become a better player.
Perhaps we will see more improvement this off season.
he didn't become a better Run blocker! He was stood up at the line by Linebackers and Safeties. He has no technique and can not push off. He becomes something you have to run around not through. 11 games went right to Reese's head.
Show me one play where a safety single handedly stood up Jerry. Me thinks you are full of mierda. I middle linebacker, maybe.
RE: RE: The guy worked hard last off season and improved
Give him credit, he did the work necessary to become a better player.
Perhaps we will see more improvement this off season.
he didn't become a better Run blocker! He was stood up at the line by Linebackers and Safeties. He has no technique and can not push off. He becomes something you have to run around not through. 11 games went right to Reese's head.
I agree, I give him credit for working so hard at camp Bentley but unfortunately effort and determination can't completely erase talent deficiencies. At this stage of his career we know what Jerry is, a decent backup NFL guard.
didn't we spend this money on Robinson? Or will we have to spend another year watching TEs split us down the seam because we don't have a LB who can cover? Too expensive.
Given the crazy amount of money we had in the 2016 offseason,
We can win with Jerry playing. He messed up in that clip against the Skins but his body of work shows he is a good pass blocker. Mediocre starter and would be a very good backup. The organization knows him well and if they think he's worth bringing back,then he most likely is.
RE: Given the crazy amount of money we had in the 2016 offseason,
to grab a RT(Everybody knew the Giants wanted Conklin) in the first round.
I bet the Eagle and Cowboy and Redskins Defensive linemen are laughing about this.
minus a miracle the Giants OL will suck again next year.
This team is like 5 days into the new calendar year. They have the rest of FA, the draft, June 1st cuts, not to mention another whole offseason program to develop and re-shape the roster and yet Dave in Hoboken KNOWS the OL will suck again next year!
Makes sense, Got it!
Dude, they're bringing back 4 out of 5 players from last year's line. We're not drafting some blue chip OT at #23 or in the later rounds who's coming in ready to play and dominate from year 1, barring something extremely unforeseen. I didn't say it wasn't possible for them to improve..
;)
don't lines improve with continuity so keeping 4 repeating starters should be good since the y know each others strengths and weaknesses
so improvement is a possibility especially when 3 of the starters are young players and need coaching up
Pretty much.
Likely bottom of the league (again) as well. Defense better be lights out again just to qualify for the playoffs. Likely zero advancement in the playoffs should we get there.
minus a miracle the Giants OL will suck again next year.
This team is like 5 days into the new calendar year. They have the rest of FA, the draft, June 1st cuts, not to mention another whole offseason program to develop and re-shape the roster and yet Dave in Hoboken KNOWS the OL will suck again next year!
Makes sense, Got it!
Dude, they're bringing back 4 out of 5 players from last year's line. We're not drafting some blue chip OT at #23 or in the later rounds who's coming in ready to play and dominate from year 1, barring something extremely unforeseen. I didn't say it wasn't possible for them to improve..
;)
don't lines improve with continuity so keeping 4 repeating starters should be good since the y know each others strengths and weaknesses
so improvement is a possibility especially when 3 of the starters are young players and need coaching up
minus a miracle the Giants OL will suck again next year.
This team is like 5 days into the new calendar year. They have the rest of FA, the draft, June 1st cuts, not to mention another whole offseason program to develop and re-shape the roster and yet Dave in Hoboken KNOWS the OL will suck again next year!
Makes sense, Got it!
Dude, they're bringing back 4 out of 5 players from last year's line. We're not drafting some blue chip OT at #23 or in the later rounds who's coming in ready to play and dominate from year 1, barring something extremely unforeseen. I didn't say it wasn't possible for them to improve..
;)
don't lines improve with continuity so keeping 4 repeating starters should be good since the y know each others strengths and weaknesses
so improvement is a possibility especially when 3 of the starters are young players and need coaching up
Yes, lines can improve with continuity. But if there's not enough talent, continuity doesn't matter
Is comforting. He knows how to play and knows the Giants. His absence would have been a problem. This and signing Fluker for RT opens up all kinds of possibilities for OL drafting where the ability to start right away is not a requirement.
when McAdoo shifted blame from the OL onto Eli during the combine interview. He knew we'd be trotting out the same garbage next season and wanted to soften the blow. Flowers, Hart, Fluker and Jerry are all below average linemen. Pugh's good, and Richburg is pretty solid. Add it up and the line still blows. I hope there's someone there at #23 who they love.
In all fairness that is Richburg who almost got Eli Killed.
What are you watching? Baker obliterated Jerry there and knocked Eli into next week. That hit f'ed Eli up the rest of the year. He wasn't the same guy.
In all fairness that is Richburg who almost got Eli Killed.
What are you watching? Baker obliterated Jerry there and knocked Eli into next week. That hit f'ed Eli up the rest of the year. He wasn't the same guy.
Well it seems pretty clear from that gif that Weston was supposed to slide his protection to Jerry and that Jerry was expecting help on the inside. Richburg even throws his hands to his helmet when he realizes what he just let happen. it is hard to see from that angle but it looks like he really screwed up his assignment and ended up basically blocking nobody on a rush that sacked the quarterback on his primary gap.
Protects us a little bit next year as well.....If we can not sign Pugh/Fluker.
I am not a big fan....But the reality of this market is the $$$$$ are out of control.....We now can assure that we are not desperate to start a rookie.
Get Ryan Clady and I will be very Happy......
True competition!
a starting OL of Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker entering the 2017 season is something that I would deem an organizational failure.
And if we didn't spend on defense last year we would have been lucky to finish .500. Unlike you, I never saw this offense becoming an unstoppable force last year with a few extra pieces. Eli has never been a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady rack-up-the-points QB, for starters, and he's more inconsistent at this stage of his career.
I'm not too enthused about the current OL, but it's not all on them. Eli has to play better (sure he was pressured quite a bit, but there were a lot of plays where he had time and bailed out too early), the skill positions need a talent infusion (hopefully Marshall, Perkins, new RB can help), and a TE that can seal the edge on blocks can make a difference. Oh, and McAdoo could freshen up the play-calling too.
In all fairness that is Richburg who almost got Eli Killed.
What are you watching? Baker obliterated Jerry there and knocked Eli into next week. That hit f'ed Eli up the rest of the year. He wasn't the same guy.
Well it seems pretty clear from that gif that Weston was supposed to slide his protection to Jerry and that Jerry was expecting help on the inside. Richburg even throws his hands to his helmet when he realizes what he just let happen. it is hard to see from that angle but it looks like he really screwed up his assignment and ended up basically blocking nobody on a rush that sacked the quarterback on his primary gap.
It is exactly what happened. It doesn't fit the popular narrative of BBI that Jerry sucks and almost got Eli killed.
In all fairness that is Richburg who almost got Eli Killed.
What are you watching? Baker obliterated Jerry there and knocked Eli into next week. That hit f'ed Eli up the rest of the year. He wasn't the same guy.
Well it seems pretty clear from that gif that Weston was supposed to slide his protection to Jerry and that Jerry was expecting help on the inside. Richburg even throws his hands to his helmet when he realizes what he just let happen. it is hard to see from that angle but it looks like he really screwed up his assignment and ended up basically blocking nobody on a rush that sacked the quarterback on his primary gap.
It is exactly what happened. It doesn't fit the popular narrative of BBI that Jerry sucks and almost got Eli killed.
That hit lead to the great performances by Eli in Minn and Green bay where he got rid of the ball when someone got close because he couldn't take another hit.
a starting OL of Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker entering the 2017 season is something that I would deem an organizational failure.
Because you would have signed whom, instead? And you should incorporate that not plying those dollars into the D would have left the talent from 2015 returning in 2016 into your answer.
This was a necessity, don't know what the complaining is, Hankins is not a necessity, it is a great draft for DT, we have Snacks who is way better, Hankins was never a good option for the money he wants, we needed to keep jerry, now we add a player or two in the draft and we are good to go on the Oline, we also need a couple of players on the Dline.
We have an overwhelming weakness in a weak free agency season and draft, for Offensive Linemen. Besides not having the Cap Space to do so, I personally am happy the Giants did not attempt to pay Kahil, Reemers, etc., some of the crazy money they received.
JJ doesn't rock my world, but we need his body in camp, along with our 1st or 2nd Rd. O Linemen. Heres hoping one , of these guys posted above makes it through: The high pre-season choice, who fell a ton, and is now climbing back up the boards, to me seems to be Robinson. All the knocks on Ramcyxk and Bolles seems to basically say not worthy top 10-15 pick. But their value/bpa, seems to be falling in line with 23. Personally if Lamp or Dawkins project as a higher floor/ceiling Guard, then Ramcyzk or Bolles at Tackle, I just want a quality player who will win his match-up. Give me the Guard.
Ramcyzk
Bolles
Lamp
Robinson
Feeney
Moton
Dawkins
outside of a shock FA move you have to hope you can get some depth at OL in the first 3 rounds, even if just at guard to protect against Pugh leaving and provide depth options. Hart is nice depth as it stands and the Canadian might be ok. Would like to add a top 100 pick to the mix though.
Reese likes DE's and with JPP up in the air, a DE would be logical
Unless someone takes him first Reese is in love with the TE from Miami and everyone knows it. I am hoping he is gone by our pick because to me he is a big WR not a Blocking TE two way player we need.
San Diego did what most of us are (were) hoping the Giants would do with Flowers, and moved Fluker from RT to RG after 2 seasons of looking horrible. He was toast against speed rushers so they moved their 1st round pick inside. Now, the Giants sign him and he possibly will be our RT with below average Jerry coming back and Flowers staying at LT. I dont get it..
Wasn't John Jerry our best offensive linemen last season? Not sure why so many people kill Jerry; he isn't spectacular but he's a solid player and seems like a good hard working guy.
As well, but there really weren't/aren't a lot of options this year. They added a young, flawed, but talented power player in Fluker. Jerry at worst depth.
I still think they need to add an OL in rounds 2-3. Some of you expect a solution tab LT. There just isn't one there. Again, I get the OL stinks...a lot are underestimating Marshal/Ellison signings (they should help OL a lot) .This offense needed to get more physical- it has done that. BBI tends to overrate the rest of league as well. OL talent is scarce.
Is the right tackle, unless Hart beats him out, Jerry is the right guard, unless Hart beat him out, or Hart beats out Fluker and Fluker beats out Jerry. It all can change if the Giants add a tackle/Olineman early in the draft, which I believe they will. What this all does is create competition, which is not a good thing, but a great thing, nobody is getting paid so high that they must start, they are all getting paid to compete for a starting job, instead of a starting job being handed to them, which will also get these guys off their asses and work hard to win a job.
You add the fact that we have added Ellison, and Marshall, who will help the pass blocking immensely and also the play calling flexibility will help to create a much more unpredictable play selection that this will all help. The Giants will also add a running back and should also add a tight end, besides adding an Olineman. You add all this up and this has a very good chance of working.
I really believe in this coach, and I think him and Reese are working hard together to get this thing turned around and fixed, and I believe we are going to see a much better offense this season.
Wasn't John Jerry our best offensive linemen last season? Not sure why so many people kill Jerry; he isn't spectacular but he's a solid player and seems like a good hard working guy.
No disrespect as someone else made this claim earlier in the thread, but I just don't get how anyone could believe John Jerry was the teams best offensive lineman last season. Pugh was on his way to the pro bowl before his injury. Even missing 5 games he was worlds better than Jerry. Richburg didn't have as good of a second season as first but he too was much better than Jerry. I'm not trying to kill Jerry here, but at best he's a serviceable depth guy. Even with all of his hard off season work at LaCharles Bentley's clinic he still couldn't run block a lick. I believe the Giants signed Fluker to play RG and will either move Flowers to RT and draft an OLT or go with Flowers one more year on the left side and draft a pure ORT. I have to believe Jerry was signed for depth.
Wasn't John Jerry our best offensive linemen last season? Not sure why so many people kill Jerry; he isn't spectacular but he's a solid player and seems like a good hard working guy.
No disrespect as someone else made this claim earlier in the thread, but I just don't get how anyone could believe John Jerry was the teams best offensive lineman last season. Pugh was on his way to the pro bowl before his injury. Even missing 5 games he was worlds better than Jerry. Richburg didn't have as good of a second season as first but he too was much better than Jerry. I'm not trying to kill Jerry here, but at best he's a serviceable depth guy. Even with all of his hard off season work at LaCharles Bentley's clinic he still couldn't run block a lick. I believe the Giants signed Fluker to play RG and will either move Flowers to RT and draft an OLT or go with Flowers one more year on the left side and draft a pure ORT. I have to believe Jerry was signed for depth.
I still tend to think they have a OL in the draft in mind in 1st or 2nd round...
Wasn't John Jerry our best offensive linemen last season? Not sure why so many people kill Jerry; he isn't spectacular but he's a solid player and seems like a good hard working guy.
He was better than Richburg. Richburg was pretty bad and got a pass from fans because he was good in '15 and Flowers/Hart were worst in the league.
But, Jerry started every game for us last season and that counts for something in the NFL.
Pugh is more talented, but, he got injured. Richburg looked to be more talented going into the season but he took a huge step back this season. We all know about Flowers troubles and Hart certainly wasn't better than Jerry. So, by my estimation that make JJ the best OL that played for the Giants last season. And that fact alone tells you what you need to know about the Giants offense which was historically inept.
Jerry's a good signing. He's a solid player, good teammate who works hard in the off season and regular season alike.
RE: RE: Given the crazy amount of money we had in the 2016 offseason,
a starting OL of Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker entering the 2017 season is something that I would deem an organizational failure.
Because you would have signed whom, instead? And you should incorporate that not plying those dollars into the D would have left the talent from 2015 returning in 2016 into your answer.
I'd said many times that my initial targets last year would have been Osemele and Schwartz. They signed for combined less money than we gave Vernon. Obviously there is no guarantee you get one or both of them, but we will never know as the priorities last year were clearly placed on signing defensive players, with Vernon being number one.
Then this year the team doubled down on its (I think) mistake when it franchised JPP. The money for offensive linemen was severe this off-season, but I would have targeted Kalil with the intent of moving Flowers to the right side of the line. If the OL was a priority we again don't know because JPP clearly was.
So we enter 2017 with OL questions at three positions and about 20% of the cap allocated to two defensive ends that struggled to generate a conventional rush for most of 2016.
A lot of the moves worked out: Jenkins was superb and I thought Harrison was the team MVP. I also love the Marshall signing and I like getting a legit blocking tight end. But to come out of that bounty of cap riches with this offensive life is tough to take.
RE: RE: RE: Given the crazy amount of money we had in the 2016 offseason,
a starting OL of Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker entering the 2017 season is something that I would deem an organizational failure.
Because you would have signed whom, instead? And you should incorporate that not plying those dollars into the D would have left the talent from 2015 returning in 2016 into your answer.
I'd said many times that my initial targets last year would have been Osemele and Schwartz. They signed for combined less money than we gave Vernon. Obviously there is no guarantee you get one or both of them, but we will never know as the priorities last year were clearly placed on signing defensive players, with Vernon being number one.
Then this year the team doubled down on its (I think) mistake when it franchised JPP. The money for offensive linemen was severe this off-season, but I would have targeted Kalil with the intent of moving Flowers to the right side of the line. If the OL was a priority we again don't know because JPP clearly was.
So we enter 2017 with OL questions at three positions and about 20% of the cap allocated to two defensive ends that struggled to generate a conventional rush for most of 2016.
A lot of the moves worked out: Jenkins was superb and I thought Harrison was the team MVP. I also love the Marshall signing and I like getting a legit blocking tight end. But to come out of that bounty of cap riches with this offensive life is tough to take.
He is just average, which probably makes him our best lineman. It seems like we paid too much but compared to others we paid NOTHING. And we have him locked up for three years. We still need to draft a quality lineman in round one. Tackle or interior lineman makes no difference. I would be happy with Ramchyk, Lamp or Garcia. One of those three will be there.
The OL is one hit on a draft pick away from being pretty good.
An OT draft pick will most likely compete with Flowers for LT. Loser goes to RT. Jerry and Fluker compete for RG. Hart competes somewhere. Pugh and Richberg are set.
The pieces and depth are there, they just need one more piece to bring it all together.
RE: RE: RE: Given the crazy amount of money we had in the 2016 offseason,
a starting OL of Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker entering the 2017 season is something that I would deem an organizational failure.
Because you would have signed whom, instead? And you should incorporate that not plying those dollars into the D would have left the talent from 2015 returning in 2016 into your answer.
I'd said many times that my initial targets last year would have been Osemele and Schwartz. They signed for combined less money than we gave Vernon. Obviously there is no guarantee you get one or both of them, but we will never know as the priorities last year were clearly placed on signing defensive players, with Vernon being number one.
Then this year the team doubled down on its (I think) mistake when it franchised JPP. The money for offensive linemen was severe this off-season, but I would have targeted Kalil with the intent of moving Flowers to the right side of the line. If the OL was a priority we again don't know because JPP clearly was.
So we enter 2017 with OL questions at three positions and about 20% of the cap allocated to two defensive ends that struggled to generate a conventional rush for most of 2016.
A lot of the moves worked out: Jenkins was superb and I thought Harrison was the team MVP. I also love the Marshall signing and I like getting a legit blocking tight end. But to come out of that bounty of cap riches with this offensive life is tough to take.
Do you really think Schwartz was coming here after the debacle with his brother?
Sure, both made less - but less than the best pass rushing DE available, and a guy who is going to anchor DE for this team for years to come. They're guards - not to downplay the need, but until last year, nobody would've ever dreamed of paying a guard that much money, and still all *but* Osemele (who was added to a strong line) turned out to be poor value.
The Giants took the available cap space and ran with it, and built a league leading defense. That's how you're supposed to spend cap money - on young, high performing players.
The O looked worse last year in large part due to injuries. Richburg and Pugh both struggled through injury, and that magnified the struggles of the OL as a whole.
With a little bit of luck on the health front, and hopefully a bounceback season from Flowers, you can get some of the offensive performance lost in 2016 while returning most of the defense intact.
If JJ played for another team, BBI wuld be yelling to sign him
but the Giants don't believe in paying Guards like that, so it's a moot point.
Hopefully, this philosophy hold true when it comes time to consider extending Pugh. Draft his replacement this year. Heck we can carry Pugh all through training camp and so long as he is healthy, we can cut him in the final cut down and not owe him a dime with zero cap hit. The 5th year option is guaranteed for injury only if his is on the final 53.
Wasn't John Jerry our best offensive linemen last season? Not sure why so many people kill Jerry; he isn't spectacular but he's a solid player and seems like a good hard working guy.
No disrespect as someone else made this claim earlier in the thread, but I just don't get how anyone could believe John Jerry was the teams best offensive lineman last season. Pugh was on his way to the pro bowl before his injury. Even missing 5 games he was worlds better than Jerry. Richburg didn't have as good of a second season as first but he too was much better than Jerry. I'm not trying to kill Jerry here, but at best he's a serviceable depth guy. Even with all of his hard off season work at LaCharles Bentley's clinic he still couldn't run block a lick. I believe the Giants signed Fluker to play RG and will either move Flowers to RT and draft an OLT or go with Flowers one more year on the left side and draft a pure ORT. I have to believe Jerry was signed for depth.
I still tend to think they have a OL in the draft in mind in 1st or 2nd round...
Something tells me they don't see much of a difference between the first round projections and the second/third round projections like Garcia, Molton and Dawkins. I have a feeling they're going to go with the big Miami TE in the first and then get their OT in the second.
In '13, '14, and '15 they drafted OL First, Second, First. Beatty in 2010 was supposed to be the starting LT playing at his peak right now.
The haven't brought in any star linemen in free agency, but they've brought in some who had the right to be very good players.
I used to believe that if you formed your O-Line from five rookie first round draft picks playing as a unit for the first time, and matched them against five hard-working lunch pail guys, and the lunch pail unit had been playing together as a unit for three or four years that the lunch pail guys were outplay the big number guys.
Not so sure anymore, but I do know that you can't count on any inexperienced first round pick to play well as a rookie. Not many do.
It wouldn't be a big shock if the Giant line, substantially the same as last year's, just played significantly better in 2017-18. Flowers, starting his 3rd season, could finally get it with help from I'm sure all kinds of coaches who will be all over him.
I believe that there is at least something to the idea that a line gels gradually as it plays together. A player sees ths teammate in trouble and he knows how to help him out.
The performance of the OL next year will significantly determine the success or failure of the team.
This is on Reese and I will be the first to applaud him if this works out, but if it does not he should take responsibility for what he created.
It appears that Reese's concept of an OL relies more on depth than on quality. He is hoping that if he throws enough mediocre players in the mix one will succeed.
last year. I don't know what the grief is about?! Jerry is far from the problem in pass pro, but don't ask him to move a DT in the run game. With that said, he was much better as a pulling guard last year and made some key blocks. He's a great guy to have as a back up, but I'm not sold on him as a starter at RG. IMO we need a mauler at that position.
Hopefully he and Richberg can get Flowers to the Lebentley Charles camp!
He literally almost got Eli killed last year. Did you not see the Chris Baker hit above?
Ummmmm, did YOU not see the clip above?? It was Richburg who did not slide over fast enough and pick Baker up. He even slaps his helmet as Baker ran right by him.
or a true blocking TE really compensated what we could do in the run game. It's not all on Jerry and the guard play. What gives me hope is that Jennings and Darkwa ran the ball OK two years ago, particularly towards the end of the year.
The criticality of this signing should forfeit there right to post on this site
It's a solid fair for both parties signing for a guy who doesn't miss games that can fill in as a starter but also be a key reserve if a player is drafted an excels at his position
Also the guaranteed money is 4 mill.
Tons of time , A lot can happen in the next 4 months
Go kick rocks
Also for the "Reese hasn't done anything to fix the OL crowd"
What exactly did you want Reese to do , spend 50 million dollars for mediocre talent an forfeit the future of the cap?
Did you not see the contracts given out day 1 f FA
OH an Reese has fucking drafted 8 lineman since 2012 , 3 of them high picks , ANDDDD his number 1 target was Conklin last year but guess what ... the best olineman of the year for Tennessee was really good and got drafted beforehand
This was a necessity, don't know what the complaining is, Hankins is not a necessity, it is a great draft for DT, we have Snacks who is way better, Hankins was never a good option for the money he wants, we needed to keep jerry, now we add a player or two in the draft and we are good to go on the Oline, we also need a couple of players on the Dline.
Your opinion fine. Think Hankins will be missed big time just like Linval Joseph was, the last time our run game and DL, was decent. We can replace him with another stiff like Austin or Bromley I guess., We will see.
oakland must not either. They play the Chargers twice a year, never even talked to Fluker and signed Newhouse instead. Light a candle and say a novena for Eli
The way John Jerry's contract is structured ($2.4M signing bonus, $925K base salary in '17) he will likely count only $1.75M vs cap this yr. Link - ( New Window )
oakland must not either. They play the Chargers twice a year, never even talked to Fluker and signed Newhouse instead. Light a candle and say a novena for Eli
Oakland doesn't need to take a chance on someone with 'potential'. Their line is set. They just need a reliable position-versatile backup. Newhouse is much more of a fit for that job description. The Giants are actually hoping Fluker can produce at something like a starter level.
How many times do people have to repeat the 'Eli being killed' mantra over and over again?
One more time for the uninitiated - Jerry's a decent pass blocker. He's a lousy run blocker. He's played here long enough that even without a whole lot of experience grading OLs, this should be accepted as fact by now.
He's not going to get Eli killed. And the salary he's making does not prevent him from being a backup after all is said and done. Anyone freaking out over this one needs some medication.
who knows if they reached out to Fluker? He might have looked at the situation and said I want to take the meetings in NY and NE first. At his age, the guy wants to play, not be a back up.
to step into, and get some push in the running game. I thought Hart was ok and improving at RT, and is a mature kid, talking Beckham off the ledge on a number of occasions.
We went from the league's worst D to arguably its best..That is an amazing feat..If that's "all" that was done, then it was remarkable..We needed EVERY D FA player to accomplish what we did..Anything less than ALL of them and we probably aren't nearly as effective, imv..I have no problem not signing a 'stud' on O..We were 11-5..
Had we signed some of the OL put out there on this thread and elsewhere, our O might have improved, but I'm betting a 9-7 record and no playoffs..
Signing Marshall and Ellison, could be huge for a flawed OL..Draft still on tap..
RE: It's amazing what groupthink will do to people
How many times do people have to repeat the 'Eli being killed' mantra over and over again?
One more time for the uninitiated - Jerry's a decent pass blocker. He's a lousy run blocker. He's played here long enough that even without a whole lot of experience grading OLs, this should be accepted as fact by now.
He's not going to get Eli killed. And the salary he's making does not prevent him from being a backup after all is said and done. Anyone freaking out over this one needs some medication.
Agreed for the most part, but lets be realistic about something. Most likely, he's not going to be a backup. The most likely scenario is that our starting line is Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker.
Its a very flawed group. They won't get Eli killed, but its highly likely that he won't have a comfortable pocket to throw from. Especially since neither one of these tackles is very reliable in that respect. And that's an issue that trickles down to the rest of the offense.
This was a necessity, don't know what the complaining is, Hankins is not a necessity, it is a great draft for DT, we have Snacks who is way better, Hankins was never a good option for the money he wants, we needed to keep jerry, now we add a player or two in the draft and we are good to go on the Oline, we also need a couple of players on the Dline.
Your opinion fine. Think Hankins will be missed big time just like Linval Joseph was, the last time our run game and DL, was decent. We can replace him with another stiff like Austin or Bromley I guess., We will see.
I too think we will miss Hankins if we let him go just as we did Joseph.
The plan at LT, RT, and swing tackle is worrisome as hell though.
Good news. We have more solid depth. Hopefully, we snag a 2nd rounder who can start and then all of the sudden we may have a line.
Link - ( New Window )
#Giants continue to do O-line work. They agreed to terms with OL John Jerry on a 3-year deal worth $10mil with $4.25 guaranteed, source said
Unbelievable. A guy who can be stood up and pushed out of the way by a Safety.
Could probably say the same about Hart and Fluker.
Lots of depth, few starters.
Name of the game is OL competition
Maybe the Giants plan on fusing the two together in a Dijon Flurry.
At that $$$ - if hes not planned to start - its a terrible move.
Its either a cheap starter contract or a way-too-expensive depth.
So he's the worst run blocking guard ever....at least he isn't the worst pass blocking guard ever.
Flucker is a swing tackle if he can't beat out Jerry which he can't. Jerry is better at Pass Protection.
I feel sorry for Eli. This Front Office strategy that you don't have to pay for a good Oline is going to get him killed.
I don't want to be mistaken for that Jerry troll, but he's absolutely a better (less bad?) player than Fluker just by virtue of having shown he's usually okay in pass pro (while being an awful run blocker) while Fluker has shown himself to be bad at everything other than being versatile (which makes him, at his money, a fine back-up signing).
He is definitely the starting and "best" RG on this team in 2017, with the parts as they currently look to be.
At that $$$ - if hes not planned to start - its a terrible move.
Its either a cheap starter contract or a way-too-expensive depth.
Relax, Einstein. Only 4.5 million is guaranteed. Maybe they can still go after Anthony Davis...
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
If John Jerry is getting $4.25 million guaranteed, it'll likely be spread over 3 years
In comparison to that, D.J. Fluker is getting $3 million for one year.
Now, is that starter money or backup money?
Again: #competition
I just hope they don't go into training camp with him expected to be a starter.
OK, what would you like Jerry to do...trade Beckham for Tyron Smith?
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker
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is brutal.
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Cut Pugh 😂
Worse post of the day
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In comment 13391725 Mr. Nickels said:
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is brutal.
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Who cares how much they won by?
Richburg starts at C.
Pugh can play LG or LT.
Flowers can play LT or RT.
Fluker can play RG or RT.
Plus you have Hart, Jerry and a potential early draft pick. After the signings of Fluker and Jerry though, I don't think you'll see an OL with a first round pick.
I still think McAdoo would like one of the TEs or McCaffrey. We'll see.
We need to beef up the line with competition and talent. Fluker was a solid move in that direction. Jerry isn't a world beater but he knows the offense and can be a good veteran on the club for young OL that we draft.
Watch how much better this OL will look with RBs that can hit a hole consistently or TEs that can actually help out on an edge rush.
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker
yuck
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In comment 13391725 Mr. Nickels said:
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is brutal.
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
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He can be counted on to play 16 games. He won't be going to any Pro-Bowls, but either is anyone else on our line. I'd draft Pugh's replacement and let everyone duke it out. If the rookie comes along and shows some talent in OTAs, then cut Pugh. We'll gain $5 mil in this year's cap just by the difference between Pugh's 5th year option and what Jerry signed for.
Cut Pugh 😂
Worse post of the day
I look forward to your post after his extension at 10 mil/year and he misses his first game to keep his injury streak alive. The reality is that as Giants fans we overvalue the talent on this team and fall in love with draft picks. But if Pugh was on any other team and hit FA with his injury history and then signed for 10mil/yr with the Giants, Reese would be killed.
Watch how much better this OL will look with RBs that can hit a hole consistently or TEs that can actually help out on an edge rush.
Man, I hope the Giants are paying some of you guys top dollar. You certainly deserve it.
Watch how much better this OL will look with RBs that can hit a hole consistently or TEs that can actually help out on an edge rush.
Good point of course, but remember who you're talking to..
I very much doubt we are done adding the OL as well. There is this whole thing called the NFL Draft coming up. I have no problem with this signing.
So the Giants bring back one of the problems, and now it's "Solid move"?
I guess I'm just missing something.
This doesn't rule out OT at #23, just don't force the pick.
This doesn't rule out OT at #23, just don't force the pick.
Who might be there at 23 that you don't believe would be a 'forced pick?'
This team is like 5 days into the new calendar year. They have the rest of FA, the draft, June 1st cuts, not to mention another whole offseason program to develop and re-shape the roster and yet Dave in Hoboken KNOWS the OL will suck again next year!
Makes sense, Got it!
I think this signing clarifies that Flowers will be back at Left Tackle.
This doesn't rule out OT at #23, just don't force the pick.
Bolles and Ramczyk will likely be gone. I'm beginning to think Reese may do the unthinkable and draft Mahomes.
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In comment 13391731 drkenneth said:
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In comment 13391725 Mr. Nickels said:
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is brutal.
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
God forbid that I suggest that the team may not have been as good as their 11-5 record indicated and that a few bounces here or there and things could easily have been different. I'm sorry I have a much different opinion of the state of this team than the learned cognoscenti here. God this place has become insufferable.
This team is like 5 days into the new calendar year. They have the rest of FA, the draft, June 1st cuts, not to mention another whole offseason program to develop and re-shape the roster and yet Dave in Hoboken KNOWS the OL will suck again next year!
Makes sense, Got it!
Dude, they're bringing back 4 out of 5 players from last year's line. We're not drafting some blue chip OT at #23 or in the later rounds who's coming in ready to play and dominate from year 1, barring something extremely unforeseen. I didn't say it wasn't possible for them to improve..
;)
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In comment 13391731 drkenneth said:
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In comment 13391725 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
is brutal.
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
the Patriots have won 6 Super Bowls? And could have beaten the '86 Bears?
I know some here say he is a "lousy run blocker" but is that accurate?
So the Giants bring back one of the problems, and now it's "Solid move"?
I guess I'm just missing something.
Exactly
Eli can mask alot of skill position deficiencies, but even he did not have his best season last year.
Let's see this offensive line can do with legitimate TEs, RBs and more weapons like Marshall and hopefully some early draft picks at skill positions.
I think they go TE, RB, or CB in the first round and grab a developmental OL in the latter rounds.
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In comment 13391756 Reb8thVA said:
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In comment 13391731 drkenneth said:
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In comment 13391725 Mr. Nickels said:
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is brutal.
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
God forbid that I suggest that the team may not have been as good as their 11-5 record indicated and that a few bounces here or there and things could easily have been different. I'm sorry I have a much different opinion of the state of this team than the learned cognoscenti here. God this place has become insufferable.
That's the whole point. A few bounces here and there and many(most?) teams records would/could be different..Those are facts for MOST/ALL teams, so not understanding this particular point of yours given that's what happens in ALL sports..Why be so defensive? I never considered myself a "learned cognoscenti."
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker
Yes. I think Fluker will be a major upgrade from Newhouse. I like Hart as the 6th OL. Drafting a OL is still pretty important. But this looks like the opening day OL.
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In comment 13391756 Reb8thVA said:
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In comment 13391731 drkenneth said:
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In comment 13391725 Mr. Nickels said:
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is brutal.
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
the Patriots have won 6 Super Bowls? And could have beaten the '86 Bears?
Fucking sorry..5
Giants Re-Sign John Jerry; Keenan Robinson Visits Bengals - ( New Window )
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In comment 13391783 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 13391756 Reb8thVA said:
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In comment 13391731 drkenneth said:
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In comment 13391725 Mr. Nickels said:
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is brutal.
Must have been tough for you to see them win 11 games last year.
With all due respect, we won four games last year by three points or less that could have gone the other way. The previous year it was the opposite.
Seriously? How many narrow wins did the Cowboys have? When is that ever relevant in sports? The Patriots won 6 of their SBs (by 3 points each?), that could have gone either way. They should have lost to the Seahawks, even the Falcons..In short, they could be 0-9 or 9-0
the Patriots have won 6 Super Bowls? And could have beaten the '86 Bears?
Fucking sorry..5
Why so tense? Everything alright at home?
Ereck Flowers, D.J. Fluker, Bobby Hart, Michael Bowie, Justin Pugh, Adam Gettis, Jon Halapio, Martin Wallace, Weston Richburg, Brett Jones and Khaled Holmes.
As I count it, that is five guys that can play some (maybe 6 with Jones) and a bunch of guys who could appear on a milk carton. So signing Jerry can't possibly be a bad thing. Hopefully he never sees the field (because there are five guys who are better), but injuries do happen and you need guys like this.
Would we all like to have signed a bunch of all-pros for vet minimum? Sure but that isn't the way it works. Frankly, I don't love Jerry, but I am not sure I would like Jon Halapio, Martin Wallace or Khaled Holmes a lot better.
Eli can mask alot of skill position deficiencies, but even he did not have his best season last year.
Let's see this offensive line can do with legitimate TEs, RBs and more weapons like Marshall and hopefully some early draft picks at skill positions.
Your insinuation that skill positions will improve the OL's pass blocking is backwards. The ball starts in the QBs hands and is distributed from there.
Hopefully he and Richberg can get Flowers to the Lebentley Charles camp!
Hopefully he and Richberg can get Flowers to the Lebentley Charles camp!
But he did get Eli killed.
Makes you wonder how many times that might have happened.
A running back great at pass pro can pickup an o-lineman who's been beaten or an assignment that's been missed up front.
TEs can do wonders in protection.
Hopefully he and Richberg can get Flowers to the Lebentley Charles camp!
That's a pretty funny mis-type of LeCharles Bentley
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For all the shit the OL gets for last season, the skill positions were AWFUL.
Your insinuation that skill positions will improve the OL's pass blocking is backwards. The ball starts in the QBs hands and is distributed from there.
The skill positions were not winning their matchups early last year. Better skill position play reduces the amount of time the QB has to hold the ball and the line has to hold their blocks.
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He's cheap, reliable, and won't get Eli killed.
Hopefully he and Richberg can get Flowers to the Lebentley Charles camp!
That's a pretty funny mis-type of LeCharles Bentley
God Damnit
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In comment 13391820 Chris684 said:
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For all the shit the OL gets for last season, the skill positions were AWFUL.
Your insinuation that skill positions will improve the OL's pass blocking is backwards. The ball starts in the QBs hands and is distributed from there.
The skill positions were not winning their matchups early last year. Better skill position play reduces the amount of time the QB has to hold the ball and the line has to hold their blocks.
-----> and the line has to hold their blocks
Perhaps we will see more improvement this off season.
In all fairness that is Richburg who almost got Eli Killed.
What if the John Jerry BBI troll is Jerry Reese?
Perhaps we will see more improvement this off season.
he didn't become a better Run blocker! He was stood up at the line by Linebackers and Safeties. He has no technique and can not push off. He becomes something you have to run around not through. 11 games went right to Reese's head.
None of the free agent OL warranted the type of money they were commanding.
Reese should be held accountable for the mess this line was last season, but I don't know what he could have done differently this off season than what he has done.
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In comment 13391820 Chris684 said:
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For all the shit the OL gets for last season, the skill positions were AWFUL.
Your insinuation that skill positions will improve the OL's pass blocking is backwards. The ball starts in the QBs hands and is distributed from there.
The skill positions were not winning their matchups early last year. Better skill position play reduces the amount of time the QB has to hold the ball and the line has to hold their blocks.
Eli got the ball out faster than all but one other QB (out of 40 qualifying) last season.
He needs to be allowed to and have the confidence to get it out less quickly, if anything, not quicker. Even with likely better skill players.
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Give him credit, he did the work necessary to become a better player.
Perhaps we will see more improvement this off season.
he didn't become a better Run blocker! He was stood up at the line by Linebackers and Safeties. He has no technique and can not push off. He becomes something you have to run around not through. 11 games went right to Reese's head.
Show me one play where a safety single handedly stood up Jerry. Me thinks you are full of mierda. I middle linebacker, maybe.
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Give him credit, he did the work necessary to become a better player.
Perhaps we will see more improvement this off season.
he didn't become a better Run blocker! He was stood up at the line by Linebackers and Safeties. He has no technique and can not push off. He becomes something you have to run around not through. 11 games went right to Reese's head.
I agree, I give him credit for working so hard at camp Bentley but unfortunately effort and determination can't completely erase talent deficiencies. At this stage of his career we know what Jerry is, a decent backup NFL guard.
Bingo!!
I bet the Eagle and Cowboy and Redskins Defensive linemen are laughing about this.
Ramcyzk
Bolles
Lamp
Robinson
Feeney
Moton
Dawkins
in the draft.
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minus a miracle the Giants OL will suck again next year.
This team is like 5 days into the new calendar year. They have the rest of FA, the draft, June 1st cuts, not to mention another whole offseason program to develop and re-shape the roster and yet Dave in Hoboken KNOWS the OL will suck again next year!
Makes sense, Got it!
Dude, they're bringing back 4 out of 5 players from last year's line. We're not drafting some blue chip OT at #23 or in the later rounds who's coming in ready to play and dominate from year 1, barring something extremely unforeseen. I didn't say it wasn't possible for them to improve..
;)
don't lines improve with continuity so keeping 4 repeating starters should be good since the y know each others strengths and weaknesses
so improvement is a possibility especially when 3 of the starters are young players and need coaching up
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker
Pretty much.
Likely bottom of the league (again) as well. Defense better be lights out again just to qualify for the playoffs. Likely zero advancement in the playoffs should we get there.
Quote:
minus a miracle the Giants OL will suck again next year.
This team is like 5 days into the new calendar year. They have the rest of FA, the draft, June 1st cuts, not to mention another whole offseason program to develop and re-shape the roster and yet Dave in Hoboken KNOWS the OL will suck again next year!
Makes sense, Got it!
Dude, they're bringing back 4 out of 5 players from last year's line. We're not drafting some blue chip OT at #23 or in the later rounds who's coming in ready to play and dominate from year 1, barring something extremely unforeseen. I didn't say it wasn't possible for them to improve..
;)
don't lines improve with continuity so keeping 4 repeating starters should be good since the y know each others strengths and weaknesses
so improvement is a possibility especially when 3 of the starters are young players and need coaching up
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In comment 13391801 Chris684 said:
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minus a miracle the Giants OL will suck again next year.
This team is like 5 days into the new calendar year. They have the rest of FA, the draft, June 1st cuts, not to mention another whole offseason program to develop and re-shape the roster and yet Dave in Hoboken KNOWS the OL will suck again next year!
Makes sense, Got it!
Dude, they're bringing back 4 out of 5 players from last year's line. We're not drafting some blue chip OT at #23 or in the later rounds who's coming in ready to play and dominate from year 1, barring something extremely unforeseen. I didn't say it wasn't possible for them to improve..
;)
don't lines improve with continuity so keeping 4 repeating starters should be good since the y know each others strengths and weaknesses
so improvement is a possibility especially when 3 of the starters are young players and need coaching up
Yes, lines can improve with continuity. But if there's not enough talent, continuity doesn't matter
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In all fairness that is Richburg who almost got Eli Killed.
What are you watching? Baker obliterated Jerry there and knocked Eli into next week. That hit f'ed Eli up the rest of the year. He wasn't the same guy.
Link - ( New Window )
Eli can mask alot of skill position deficiencies, but even he did not have his best season last year.
Let's see this offensive line can do with legitimate TEs, RBs and more weapons like Marshall and hopefully some early draft picks at skill positions.
Solid point.
I am hoping we draft a great Tight End.
Excited about Marshall and Perkins (as starter)
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In comment 13391825 bceagle05 said:
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In all fairness that is Richburg who almost got Eli Killed.
What are you watching? Baker obliterated Jerry there and knocked Eli into next week. That hit f'ed Eli up the rest of the year. He wasn't the same guy.
Well it seems pretty clear from that gif that Weston was supposed to slide his protection to Jerry and that Jerry was expecting help on the inside. Richburg even throws his hands to his helmet when he realizes what he just let happen. it is hard to see from that angle but it looks like he really screwed up his assignment and ended up basically blocking nobody on a rush that sacked the quarterback on his primary gap.
The same Walter Football that basically said the team went 11-5 in spite of Eli?
I am not a big fan....But the reality of this market is the $$$$$ are out of control.....We now can assure that we are not desperate to start a rookie.
Get Ryan Clady and I will be very Happy......
True competition!
What if the John Jerry BBI troll is Jerry Reese?
I can see that lol
There's truth to this.
And if we didn't spend on defense last year we would have been lucky to finish .500. Unlike you, I never saw this offense becoming an unstoppable force last year with a few extra pieces. Eli has never been a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady rack-up-the-points QB, for starters, and he's more inconsistent at this stage of his career.
I'm not too enthused about the current OL, but it's not all on them. Eli has to play better (sure he was pressured quite a bit, but there were a lot of plays where he had time and bailed out too early), the skill positions need a talent infusion (hopefully Marshall, Perkins, new RB can help), and a TE that can seal the edge on blocks can make a difference. Oh, and McAdoo could freshen up the play-calling too.
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In comment 13391868 shelovesnycsports said:
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In comment 13391825 bceagle05 said:
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In all fairness that is Richburg who almost got Eli Killed.
What are you watching? Baker obliterated Jerry there and knocked Eli into next week. That hit f'ed Eli up the rest of the year. He wasn't the same guy.
Well it seems pretty clear from that gif that Weston was supposed to slide his protection to Jerry and that Jerry was expecting help on the inside. Richburg even throws his hands to his helmet when he realizes what he just let happen. it is hard to see from that angle but it looks like he really screwed up his assignment and ended up basically blocking nobody on a rush that sacked the quarterback on his primary gap.
It is exactly what happened. It doesn't fit the popular narrative of BBI that Jerry sucks and almost got Eli killed.
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In comment 13391942 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13391868 shelovesnycsports said:
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In comment 13391825 bceagle05 said:
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In all fairness that is Richburg who almost got Eli Killed.
What are you watching? Baker obliterated Jerry there and knocked Eli into next week. That hit f'ed Eli up the rest of the year. He wasn't the same guy.
Well it seems pretty clear from that gif that Weston was supposed to slide his protection to Jerry and that Jerry was expecting help on the inside. Richburg even throws his hands to his helmet when he realizes what he just let happen. it is hard to see from that angle but it looks like he really screwed up his assignment and ended up basically blocking nobody on a rush that sacked the quarterback on his primary gap.
It is exactly what happened. It doesn't fit the popular narrative of BBI that Jerry sucks and almost got Eli killed.
That hit lead to the great performances by Eli in Minn and Green bay where he got rid of the ball when someone got close because he couldn't take another hit.
Fluker vs Jerry for RG
Because you would have signed whom, instead? And you should incorporate that not plying those dollars into the D would have left the talent from 2015 returning in 2016 into your answer.
I was really hoping for a fluker and Hart combo on the right side.
JJ doesn't rock my world, but we need his body in camp, along with our 1st or 2nd Rd. O Linemen. Heres hoping one , of these guys posted above makes it through: The high pre-season choice, who fell a ton, and is now climbing back up the boards, to me seems to be Robinson. All the knocks on Ramcyxk and Bolles seems to basically say not worthy top 10-15 pick. But their value/bpa, seems to be falling in line with 23. Personally if Lamp or Dawkins project as a higher floor/ceiling Guard, then Ramcyzk or Bolles at Tackle, I just want a quality player who will win his match-up. Give me the Guard.
Ramcyzk
Bolles
Lamp
Robinson
Feeney
Moton
Dawkins
Reese likes DE's and with JPP up in the air, a DE would be logical
Actually, possible starter or AT THE VERY LEAST, solid depth
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not a lineman.
Reese likes DE's and with JPP up in the air, a DE would be logical
Unless someone takes him first Reese is in love with the TE from Miami and everyone knows it. I am hoping he is gone by our pick because to me he is a big WR not a Blocking TE two way player we need.
I still think they need to add an OL in rounds 2-3. Some of you expect a solution tab LT. There just isn't one there. Again, I get the OL stinks...a lot are underestimating Marshal/Ellison signings (they should help OL a lot) .This offense needed to get more physical- it has done that. BBI tends to overrate the rest of league as well. OL talent is scarce.
You add the fact that we have added Ellison, and Marshall, who will help the pass blocking immensely and also the play calling flexibility will help to create a much more unpredictable play selection that this will all help. The Giants will also add a running back and should also add a tight end, besides adding an Olineman. You add all this up and this has a very good chance of working.
I really believe in this coach, and I think him and Reese are working hard together to get this thing turned around and fixed, and I believe we are going to see a much better offense this season.
No disrespect as someone else made this claim earlier in the thread, but I just don't get how anyone could believe John Jerry was the teams best offensive lineman last season. Pugh was on his way to the pro bowl before his injury. Even missing 5 games he was worlds better than Jerry. Richburg didn't have as good of a second season as first but he too was much better than Jerry. I'm not trying to kill Jerry here, but at best he's a serviceable depth guy. Even with all of his hard off season work at LaCharles Bentley's clinic he still couldn't run block a lick. I believe the Giants signed Fluker to play RG and will either move Flowers to RT and draft an OLT or go with Flowers one more year on the left side and draft a pure ORT. I have to believe Jerry was signed for depth.
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Wasn't John Jerry our best offensive linemen last season? Not sure why so many people kill Jerry; he isn't spectacular but he's a solid player and seems like a good hard working guy.
No disrespect as someone else made this claim earlier in the thread, but I just don't get how anyone could believe John Jerry was the teams best offensive lineman last season. Pugh was on his way to the pro bowl before his injury. Even missing 5 games he was worlds better than Jerry. Richburg didn't have as good of a second season as first but he too was much better than Jerry. I'm not trying to kill Jerry here, but at best he's a serviceable depth guy. Even with all of his hard off season work at LaCharles Bentley's clinic he still couldn't run block a lick. I believe the Giants signed Fluker to play RG and will either move Flowers to RT and draft an OLT or go with Flowers one more year on the left side and draft a pure ORT. I have to believe Jerry was signed for depth.
I still tend to think they have a OL in the draft in mind in 1st or 2nd round...
He was better than Richburg. Richburg was pretty bad and got a pass from fans because he was good in '15 and Flowers/Hart were worst in the league.
Pugh is more talented, but, he got injured. Richburg looked to be more talented going into the season but he took a huge step back this season. We all know about Flowers troubles and Hart certainly wasn't better than Jerry. So, by my estimation that make JJ the best OL that played for the Giants last season. And that fact alone tells you what you need to know about the Giants offense which was historically inept.
Jerry's a good signing. He's a solid player, good teammate who works hard in the off season and regular season alike.
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a starting OL of Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker entering the 2017 season is something that I would deem an organizational failure.
Because you would have signed whom, instead? And you should incorporate that not plying those dollars into the D would have left the talent from 2015 returning in 2016 into your answer.
I'd said many times that my initial targets last year would have been Osemele and Schwartz. They signed for combined less money than we gave Vernon. Obviously there is no guarantee you get one or both of them, but we will never know as the priorities last year were clearly placed on signing defensive players, with Vernon being number one.
Then this year the team doubled down on its (I think) mistake when it franchised JPP. The money for offensive linemen was severe this off-season, but I would have targeted Kalil with the intent of moving Flowers to the right side of the line. If the OL was a priority we again don't know because JPP clearly was.
So we enter 2017 with OL questions at three positions and about 20% of the cap allocated to two defensive ends that struggled to generate a conventional rush for most of 2016.
A lot of the moves worked out: Jenkins was superb and I thought Harrison was the team MVP. I also love the Marshall signing and I like getting a legit blocking tight end. But to come out of that bounty of cap riches with this offensive life is tough to take.
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In comment 13391898 Go Terps said:
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a starting OL of Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker entering the 2017 season is something that I would deem an organizational failure.
Because you would have signed whom, instead? And you should incorporate that not plying those dollars into the D would have left the talent from 2015 returning in 2016 into your answer.
I'd said many times that my initial targets last year would have been Osemele and Schwartz. They signed for combined less money than we gave Vernon. Obviously there is no guarantee you get one or both of them, but we will never know as the priorities last year were clearly placed on signing defensive players, with Vernon being number one.
Then this year the team doubled down on its (I think) mistake when it franchised JPP. The money for offensive linemen was severe this off-season, but I would have targeted Kalil with the intent of moving Flowers to the right side of the line. If the OL was a priority we again don't know because JPP clearly was.
So we enter 2017 with OL questions at three positions and about 20% of the cap allocated to two defensive ends that struggled to generate a conventional rush for most of 2016.
A lot of the moves worked out: Jenkins was superb and I thought Harrison was the team MVP. I also love the Marshall signing and I like getting a legit blocking tight end. But to come out of that bounty of cap riches with this offensive life is tough to take.
Well said
An OT draft pick will most likely compete with Flowers for LT. Loser goes to RT. Jerry and Fluker compete for RG. Hart competes somewhere. Pugh and Richberg are set.
The pieces and depth are there, they just need one more piece to bring it all together.
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In comment 13391898 Go Terps said:
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a starting OL of Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker entering the 2017 season is something that I would deem an organizational failure.
Because you would have signed whom, instead? And you should incorporate that not plying those dollars into the D would have left the talent from 2015 returning in 2016 into your answer.
I'd said many times that my initial targets last year would have been Osemele and Schwartz. They signed for combined less money than we gave Vernon. Obviously there is no guarantee you get one or both of them, but we will never know as the priorities last year were clearly placed on signing defensive players, with Vernon being number one.
Then this year the team doubled down on its (I think) mistake when it franchised JPP. The money for offensive linemen was severe this off-season, but I would have targeted Kalil with the intent of moving Flowers to the right side of the line. If the OL was a priority we again don't know because JPP clearly was.
So we enter 2017 with OL questions at three positions and about 20% of the cap allocated to two defensive ends that struggled to generate a conventional rush for most of 2016.
A lot of the moves worked out: Jenkins was superb and I thought Harrison was the team MVP. I also love the Marshall signing and I like getting a legit blocking tight end. But to come out of that bounty of cap riches with this offensive life is tough to take.
Do you really think Schwartz was coming here after the debacle with his brother?
Sure, both made less - but less than the best pass rushing DE available, and a guy who is going to anchor DE for this team for years to come. They're guards - not to downplay the need, but until last year, nobody would've ever dreamed of paying a guard that much money, and still all *but* Osemele (who was added to a strong line) turned out to be poor value.
The Giants took the available cap space and ran with it, and built a league leading defense. That's how you're supposed to spend cap money - on young, high performing players.
The O looked worse last year in large part due to injuries. Richburg and Pugh both struggled through injury, and that magnified the struggles of the OL as a whole.
With a little bit of luck on the health front, and hopefully a bounceback season from Flowers, you can get some of the offensive performance lost in 2016 while returning most of the defense intact.
This year the guy to get was Lang or Zeitler, but they weren't in a position to do so.
Hopefully, this philosophy hold true when it comes time to consider extending Pugh. Draft his replacement this year. Heck we can carry Pugh all through training camp and so long as he is healthy, we can cut him in the final cut down and not owe him a dime with zero cap hit. The 5th year option is guaranteed for injury only if his is on the final 53.
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In comment 13392022 trueblueinpw said:
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Wasn't John Jerry our best offensive linemen last season? Not sure why so many people kill Jerry; he isn't spectacular but he's a solid player and seems like a good hard working guy.
No disrespect as someone else made this claim earlier in the thread, but I just don't get how anyone could believe John Jerry was the teams best offensive lineman last season. Pugh was on his way to the pro bowl before his injury. Even missing 5 games he was worlds better than Jerry. Richburg didn't have as good of a second season as first but he too was much better than Jerry. I'm not trying to kill Jerry here, but at best he's a serviceable depth guy. Even with all of his hard off season work at LaCharles Bentley's clinic he still couldn't run block a lick. I believe the Giants signed Fluker to play RG and will either move Flowers to RT and draft an OLT or go with Flowers one more year on the left side and draft a pure ORT. I have to believe Jerry was signed for depth.
I still tend to think they have a OL in the draft in mind in 1st or 2nd round...
Something tells me they don't see much of a difference between the first round projections and the second/third round projections like Garcia, Molton and Dawkins. I have a feeling they're going to go with the big Miami TE in the first and then get their OT in the second.
The haven't brought in any star linemen in free agency, but they've brought in some who had the right to be very good players.
I used to believe that if you formed your O-Line from five rookie first round draft picks playing as a unit for the first time, and matched them against five hard-working lunch pail guys, and the lunch pail unit had been playing together as a unit for three or four years that the lunch pail guys were outplay the big number guys.
Not so sure anymore, but I do know that you can't count on any inexperienced first round pick to play well as a rookie. Not many do.
It wouldn't be a big shock if the Giant line, substantially the same as last year's, just played significantly better in 2017-18. Flowers, starting his 3rd season, could finally get it with help from I'm sure all kinds of coaches who will be all over him.
I believe that there is at least something to the idea that a line gels gradually as it plays together. A player sees ths teammate in trouble and he knows how to help him out.
I am with Terp....We needed a LT last year in FA (but that is water under the bridge).. Reese was stubborn....To "hold" the LT spot for Flowers.
This year....The Giants do not have the cap space and the market has OL a top premium $$$$$ so we need to find a gem in the clearance bins.
I hope Clady gets healthy enough to play....
Hopefully staying in NY is something he values.....So the Giants can secure him....At a reasonable $$
Ramcyzk
Bolles
Lamp
Robinson
Feeney
Moton
Dawkins
in the draft.
Exactly. One of this crop would be great to add to the mix. Playmaker and one of these guys and I'm real thrilled.
This is on Reese and I will be the first to applaud him if this works out, but if it does not he should take responsibility for what he created.
It appears that Reese's concept of an OL relies more on depth than on quality. He is hoping that if he throws enough mediocre players in the mix one will succeed.
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Have to hope for one of:
Ramcyzk
Bolles
Lamp
Robinson
Feeney
Moton
Dawkins
in the draft.
Exactly. One of this crop would be great to add to the mix. Playmaker and one of these guys and I'm real thrilled.
Yup.
Agree. Imagine if Belichick inked him to the same deal?
Hopefully he and Richberg can get Flowers to the Lebentley Charles camp!
He literally almost got Eli killed last year. Did you not see the Chris Baker hit above?
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He's cheap, reliable, and won't get Eli killed.
Hopefully he and Richberg can get Flowers to the Lebentley Charles camp!
He literally almost got Eli killed last year. Did you not see the Chris Baker hit above?
Ummmmm, did YOU not see the clip above?? It was Richburg who did not slide over fast enough and pick Baker up. He even slaps his helmet as Baker ran right by him.
It's a solid fair for both parties signing for a guy who doesn't miss games that can fill in as a starter but also be a key reserve if a player is drafted an excels at his position
Also the guaranteed money is 4 mill.
Tons of time , A lot can happen in the next 4 months
Go kick rocks
Did you not see the contracts given out day 1 f FA
OH an Reese has fucking drafted 8 lineman since 2012 , 3 of them high picks , ANDDDD his number 1 target was Conklin last year but guess what ... the best olineman of the year for Tennessee was really good and got drafted beforehand
Fuck
Go pound salt
Well in 2014 Ken Whisenhunt was the offensive coordinator. In 2015 the went to Frank Reich. Not sure if there was some sort of scheme change.
Looks like they moved him to G right after a solid rookie year at RT. Seems dumb.
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that Fluker had a good rookie year at RT? What happened after that? Out of shape?
Well in 2014 Ken Whisenhunt was the offensive coordinator. In 2015 the went to Frank Reich. Not sure if there was some sort of scheme change.
Looks like they moved him to G right after a solid rookie year at RT. Seems dumb.
It wasn't right after. He got 16 more starts at RT the following year and wasn't good. He got moved in his third year.
Link - ( New Window )
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has no idea what they are doing.
oakland must not either. They play the Chargers twice a year, never even talked to Fluker and signed Newhouse instead. Light a candle and say a novena for Eli
Oakland doesn't need to take a chance on someone with 'potential'. Their line is set. They just need a reliable position-versatile backup. Newhouse is much more of a fit for that job description. The Giants are actually hoping Fluker can produce at something like a starter level.
One more time for the uninitiated - Jerry's a decent pass blocker. He's a lousy run blocker. He's played here long enough that even without a whole lot of experience grading OLs, this should be accepted as fact by now.
He's not going to get Eli killed. And the salary he's making does not prevent him from being a backup after all is said and done. Anyone freaking out over this one needs some medication.
He has a good chance to start here.
Had we signed some of the OL put out there on this thread and elsewhere, our O might have improved, but I'm betting a 9-7 record and no playoffs..
Signing Marshall and Ellison, could be huge for a flawed OL..Draft still on tap..
One more time for the uninitiated - Jerry's a decent pass blocker. He's a lousy run blocker. He's played here long enough that even without a whole lot of experience grading OLs, this should be accepted as fact by now.
He's not going to get Eli killed. And the salary he's making does not prevent him from being a backup after all is said and done. Anyone freaking out over this one needs some medication.
Agreed for the most part, but lets be realistic about something. Most likely, he's not going to be a backup. The most likely scenario is that our starting line is Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker.
Its a very flawed group. They won't get Eli killed, but its highly likely that he won't have a comfortable pocket to throw from. Especially since neither one of these tackles is very reliable in that respect. And that's an issue that trickles down to the rest of the offense.
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This was a necessity, don't know what the complaining is, Hankins is not a necessity, it is a great draft for DT, we have Snacks who is way better, Hankins was never a good option for the money he wants, we needed to keep jerry, now we add a player or two in the draft and we are good to go on the Oline, we also need a couple of players on the Dline.
Your opinion fine. Think Hankins will be missed big time just like Linval Joseph was, the last time our run game and DL, was decent. We can replace him with another stiff like Austin or Bromley I guess., We will see.
I too think we will miss Hankins if we let him go just as we did Joseph.