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NFT: Knicks/ NBA Talk 3/14

TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 10:46 am
-Knicks now 6th in the lottery. 1.5 games behind philly for the 5th spot and 2.5 games behind Orlando for 4th. Looking like they have a good chance at a top 5 pick.
- Rubio with 22 points and 19 assists last night. He's been playing great the last month. TWolves have played very well. 7-3 in their last 10 with some very impressive wins over GSW and Wizards. 3.5 games out of 8th seed but they should be formidable next year. Maybe Thibs trades for Butler?
- Butler with 22pts, 6 rebs, 11 assists last night.
- Brogdon 15 points and 8 assists
- Vinsanity with 24 points. Amazing what he's doing this late in his career.
- Big win for Utah over the Clippers. George Hill with 19 points, 8 rebs, 6 assists.
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RE: Wish we had Magic at the helm instead the infallible Phil Jax  
nygiants16 : 3/14/2017 9:47 pm : link
In comment 13393434 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
Magic gets it. Phil still wants to play and win games. Magic sees the forest through the trees and "let's the kids play."

This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.


and what player do the lakera have remotely close to melo or rose?

is russell still playing? randle? their best players are still playing..

also another thing you seem to not take into consideration, the lakers lose their pick if it is outside top 3 so they have to lose
Oh well... can't lose 'em all.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/14/2017 9:48 pm : link
Terrific game for Willy.
7 is the most likely place they end up picking  
giantsfan44ab : 3/14/2017 9:50 pm : link
NO is about to win back to back for the first time. There is no possible way the Knicks sustain being as bad as the Kings. Just isn't going to happen.
RE: RE: Wish we had Magic at the helm instead the infallible Phil Jax  
PhiPsi125 : 3/14/2017 9:51 pm : link
In comment 13393445 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13393434 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


Magic gets it. Phil still wants to play and win games. Magic sees the forest through the trees and "let's the kids play."

This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.



and what player do the lakera have remotely close to melo or rose?

is russell still playing? randle? their best players are still playing..

also another thing you seem to not take into consideration, the lakers lose their pick if it is outside top 3 so they have to lose


What's your point? Who cares if they don't have anyone as good as Melo or Rose? He's still scratching quality player(s) that would help them lose while seeing what they have in other players.

I wasn't aware of their pick situation (which makes sense) but I'm not understanding why this seems to bother some of you.
what quality player have they scratched?  
nygiants16 : 3/14/2017 9:54 pm : link
..
Way too early speculating:  
giantsfan44ab : 3/14/2017 9:55 pm : link
Celtics take Fultz.

Ball to LA.

Jackson fits perfectly at the 3 for PHO.

Orlando finally gets a PG it likes in Smith.

Tatum continues his hot streak into the tourney, Vivek falls in love.

Philly adds its shooter in Monk.

NY gets Isaac, another polarizing prospect, and will get picked apart just like they did for taking KP.
RE: what quality player have they scratched?  
PhiPsi125 : 3/14/2017 9:56 pm : link
In comment 13393458 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..


Mozgov...healthy scratch for the remainder of the season.
RE: RE: what quality player have they scratched?  
nygiants16 : 3/14/2017 9:57 pm : link
In comment 13393465 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13393458 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


..



Mozgov...healthy scratch for the remainder of the season.


he hasnt been in the rotation since christmas, it is not something magic did, he hasnt been playing anyway
RE: RE: RE: Wish we had Magic at the helm instead the infallible Phil Jax  
giantsfan44ab : 3/14/2017 9:59 pm : link
In comment 13393455 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13393445 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13393434 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


Magic gets it. Phil still wants to play and win games. Magic sees the forest through the trees and "let's the kids play."

This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.



and what player do the lakera have remotely close to melo or rose?

is russell still playing? randle? their best players are still playing..

also another thing you seem to not take into consideration, the lakers lose their pick if it is outside top 3 so they have to lose



What's your point? Who cares if they don't have anyone as good as Melo or Rose? He's still scratching quality player(s) that would help them lose while seeing what they have in other players.

I wasn't aware of their pick situation (which makes sense) but I'm not understanding why this seems to bother some of you.


Who are these "quality" players on the Lakers? Deng? Ingram is better than Deng at this point. Mozgov? Mozgov is the 5th best big man in LA.

Nick Young? Seriously?

The only veteran they scratched was Lou Williams and that was a decision made long before Magic was hired.

The Lakers aren't going to lose any more games than they were going to anyways.
Anyway, my point is that you don't hear GMs or front offices  
PhiPsi125 : 3/14/2017 10:08 pm : link
publicly state that they are going to sit players to "see what they have" very often. And it's a philosophy that we should be adopting for many reasons. That's all.
Tanking aside  
bceagle05 : 3/14/2017 10:16 pm : link
I'm just fucking tired of Carmelo Anthony. Is this what he wants his career to be? The highlight these days is hitting a couple of clutch shots here and there on a garbage team playing meaningless games. Go challenge yourself a little on a good team, instead of holding us hostage.
Tanks for nothing.  
batman11 : 3/15/2017 12:00 am : link
Stupid Knicks!
This team can't even tank correctly. What the fuck are you playing  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/15/2017 12:13 am : link
your old vets for with 15 games left?
RE: RE: RE: Araton  
Deej : 3/15/2017 7:57 am : link
In comment 13393333 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13393204 Deej said:


Quote:




I do agree with the premise. Phil needs to coach or quit (only thing I can think of is him running practice and coaching home, BK, and Philly games). Seems pretty unlikely to happen, so he should quit. But he wont.



Phil will never coach this team. He wouldn't if he was healthy and he certainly won't now. Nor should he. What is the great Phil Jackson going to do with this team as a coach? Absolutely nothing. I don't see Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol, and others walking through the door.

I can't take away any of Phil's achievements or pedigree...but his crowing achievement was being able to surround himself with multiple HOF players on each of his teams. Pretty easy to win that way. No matter what offensive system you implement.


My point was that if he is going to insist on the triangle, he really needs to be the coach. Because only he and Rambis are committed to it in the NBA, and Rambis cannot be the coach.

My preference is that we stop with this triangle BS. We have two PnR/PnP bigs. Go get a pick and __ PG and you have an offense.
If Phil was the coach he'd have a better chance  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/15/2017 9:14 am : link
To run the team as he sees fit.

I don't even see how you can evaluate hornacek as a coach in such a toxic environment as MSG. Does anyone think Hornacek actually has control here? That he would have been okay with Rose just disappearing and then getting to start again when he shows up? Or that he's not fed up with the lazy defense and constant defensive switching that have infected this team since long before he got this job?
Melo  
TyreeHelmet : 3/15/2017 2:20 pm : link
This is why I wanted them to trade Melo- regardless of what they got back. Just since the deadline, he's been instrumental in 3 wins. I'm sure he'll have a couple more before the season is over. Those 4-5 additional wins drastically changes your draft position and is very very valuable. You wouldn't have received value for Melo directly but improving your draft position could deliver it.
Well said regarding Melo.  
bceagle05 : 3/15/2017 2:28 pm : link
So freaking frustrating watching him carry us to a couple of meaningless wins as we play out the string of another lost season. He played 41 minutes last night - that number should be no higher than 30. Rose shouldn't be out there either.

This is what happens when you have a bunch of people with their own self interests at stake - I'm sure Hornanek wants as many wins as possible for his next job interview. Melo wants his stats, Rose wants a big contract this summer, Phil wants to gratify his own ego with this triangle bullshit. Anyone looking out for the best interests of the Knicks? Nope.
Players self interest is irrelevant  
Deej : 3/15/2017 2:38 pm : link
no player tanks. Period. No player on Philly all these years was tanking. Players play hard. They dont create bad game tape that will inhibit them in free agency.

You dont tank by having your players play worse than they should. You tank by sitting guys out, spreading minutes around, and being committed to developing players over putting the best lineup out there.
This is roughly what I've expected from this team  
giantsfan44ab : 3/15/2017 2:53 pm : link
since like December. They're not as good as Dallas (if Dirk plays), MIN (ironically a good team without Lavine. Or not), and probably NO. But they're also not going to be as bad as a Collison-led Kings, a treanwreck team that is the magic, or an Embiid-less Sixers squad (although saric has been keeping them fairly competitive).

I'm sure in the coming weeks fans will get what they want and see Melo/Rose benched the last few games. I believe they've been resting Melo on back to backs as well.

This team lost 4 home games in a row (including the Lakers, Nuggets and a CP3-less Clippers team) and then beat the Spurs. They lose to the Nets and then beat the Pacers. Big whoop. If it was the other way around, people wouldn't complain as much.

I'm a Sam Hinkie fan boy. I advocate the tank. I trust the tank. But everyone one of us knew this team wouldn't be sniffing a top 5 pick (barring lottery odds). Anyone who thought so is just making a narrative to shit on the Knicks even more. Trust me. I do that probably more than anyone else.

Just buckle up tight. There really isn't much season left. There's march madness right now (if that's your thing) and then playoffs are in sniffing distance afterwards. There's really nothing to complain about one way or the other at this point. Save that energy for the whole YouTube-scout part of the season.
This is how its done.  
DanMetroMan : 3/15/2017 3:03 pm : link
Dan Devine‏Verified account @YourManDevine 24m24 minutes ago
More
Update @YahooBDL: The Lakers will now put Timofey Mozgov *and* Luol Deng on the shelf for the rest of the year. https://yhoo.it/2mKslwR
.  
DanMetroMan : 3/15/2017 3:09 pm : link
Type of player the Knicks should be avoiding. average starter who will be overpaid/30+ when they need him #Knicks
Link - ( New Window )
RE: This is how its done.  
PhiPsi125 : 3/15/2017 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13394173 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Dan Devine‏Verified account @YourManDevine 24m24 minutes ago
More
Update @YahooBDL: The Lakers will now put Timofey Mozgov *and* Luol Deng on the shelf for the rest of the year. https://yhoo.it/2mKslwR


Be careful, Dan. I said the same thing last night and people got their feathers all ruffled about it. Lord only knows why.
RE: RE: This is how its done.  
DanMetroMan : 3/15/2017 3:13 pm : link
In comment 13394189 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13394173 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Dan Devine‏Verified account @YourManDevine 24m24 minutes ago
More
Update @YahooBDL: The Lakers will now put Timofey Mozgov *and* Luol Deng on the shelf for the rest of the year. https://yhoo.it/2mKslwR



Be careful, Dan. I said the same thing last night and people got their feathers all ruffled about it. Lord only knows why.


The only thing controversial/silly about the Lakers plan is their need to "announce" it. Play your better players far less, play your lesser players far more. It's not that difficult. Expecting Melo not to play like "regular" Melo is silly
Never got my feathers ruffled  
giantsfan44ab : 3/15/2017 3:24 pm : link
I just don't know how Mozgov can be classified as a "better" player than zubac, black, Randle or Nance.

Same thing with Deng vs Ingram. Young is honestly the hilarious one.

The hilarity of the Lakers benching those guys comes from their contracts and expected desperation for signing Paul george in 2 years. They're are going to likely have to part with one of Clarkson, Russell or Randle, and possibly a pick to make requisite cap room to go after PG.
I'm certainly not asking Melo to dog it.  
bceagle05 : 3/15/2017 3:24 pm : link
I'm asking Coach Jackson, I mean, uh, Hornacek, to cut his minutes. Rose, too. Looks like we'll wind up in the seven spot, which was the number I've had in mind for weeks, but it's not a lock. And it's not just about the draft either. Melo's an older player with an injury history. Keeping him healthy through the end of the season should be a priority, whether we're looking to keep him or deal him.
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 3/15/2017 3:26 pm : link
really going to be sick if we go chasing the Hill, Teague types. Even if we don't take a PG I still wouldn't do something like that.
Another distinction is that  
Deej : 3/15/2017 3:27 pm : link
statistically, Deng and Mozgov are not top 9 players on LA this season. I.e. it can be justified in basketball terms (winning and losing) to remove them from the rotation.

On the other hand, there is no non-tanking justification to sit Melo (unless you're making a point about him not taking to the coaching). Rose of course has only 2 UDFA rookies at PG competition. Just different.
RE: I'm  
bceagle05 : 3/15/2017 3:28 pm : link
In comment 13394214 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
really going to be sick if we go chasing the Hill, Teague types. Even if we don't take a PG I still wouldn't do something like that.


I love the headline of that article you posted - something about our chances for Teague "slipping away," as if he's Steph Curry or Russell Westbrook. I'd be more concerned if our chances of landing him were improving.
I'd gladly argue  
giantsfan44ab : 3/15/2017 3:30 pm : link
Playing KOQ anything less than a consistent 25 minutes a night is more detrimental to winning than anything the lakers have done this entire season.
Melo  
DanMetroMan : 3/15/2017 3:30 pm : link
doesn't need to play 41 minutes. He plays 25-30 and people really raise their eyebrows? They value the triangle so highly why isn't it reasonable for Sasha to eat into Rose's 30+ per night?
RE: RE: I'm  
DanMetroMan : 3/15/2017 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13394218 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
In comment 13394214 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


really going to be sick if we go chasing the Hill, Teague types. Even if we don't take a PG I still wouldn't do something like that.



I love the headline of that article you posted - something about our chances for Teague "slipping away," as if he's Steph Curry or Russell Westbrook. I'd be more concerned if our chances of landing him were improving.


I'll be furious if we are the high bidders on Teague or Hill. Furious.
KP may not play on Thursday  
giantsfan44ab : 3/15/2017 3:31 pm : link
And KOQ *may* crack 12 minutes played. It's fucking hilarious.
RE: RE: RE: I'm  
Deej : 3/15/2017 3:39 pm : link
In comment 13394222 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

I'll be furious if we are the high bidders on Teague or Hill. Furious.


Get ready for it. I dont know why anyone is expecting a rebuild. Phil hasnt said it. Lets say they get a 2/3 prospect that they think is a huge steal -- most likely is Monk, Isaac, or Tatum. Melo balks at a trade. What makes anyone here confident that the Knicks dont say, fuck it, Noah/Willy-KP-Melo-rookie-Hill is a #4 seed with a developmental path as the 3 young players age? I think that is way more likely than the Knicks saying "fuck Melo, we're in The Process(R) and we're going to spend this season on development, and not maximize wins."

I'll buy the Knicks as a rebuilding team when I see it. We always push our chips to the middle of the table the first chance we get. We're chasing this middle tier of PGs.
I'm scared shitless of what's to come this summer.  
bceagle05 : 3/15/2017 3:44 pm : link
It seems so obvious - take the best point guard or wing with your first round pick, deal Melo, and go with the youth movement. Keep Lee, Lance and Noah as the veteran leaders. If you take your lumps again next year, so be it. We'll be back in the top 10 of the draft to grab another stud prospect.

But I have no faith in the Knicks doing that - Deej's scenario sounds far more realistic, based on the evidence.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm  
DanMetroMan : 3/15/2017 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13394237 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13394222 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:



I'll be furious if we are the high bidders on Teague or Hill. Furious.



Get ready for it. I dont know why anyone is expecting a rebuild. Phil hasnt said it. Lets say they get a 2/3 prospect that they think is a huge steal -- most likely is Monk, Isaac, or Tatum. Melo balks at a trade. What makes anyone here confident that the Knicks dont say, fuck it, Noah/Willy-KP-Melo-rookie-Hill is a #4 seed with a developmental path as the 3 young players age? I think that is way more likely than the Knicks saying "fuck Melo, we're in The Process(R) and we're going to spend this season on development, and not maximize wins."

I'll buy the Knicks as a rebuilding team when I see it. We always push our chips to the middle of the table the first chance we get. We're chasing this middle tier of PGs.


And I'm sure some homers will defend it. I won't. The Knicks have to accept they aren't a very talented roster and likely need 2 good off-seasons to become one. Signing guys like Teague (30 in year 2 of a multi-year deal) or Hill (already turning 31 in May) would mean we outbid other teams for guys leaving their prime. Awful franchises do that. The 2017-2018 Knicks will still be nowhere near competing with the top teams with Jeff Teague and a rookie like Isaac or Tatum. Better? For sure. But the are about to win 30ish games, it would be tough not to be "better". This consistent argument on BBI that "being better" is some sort of victory is really perplexing. You really think Pistons fans (6 more wins), Indiana (7 more wins) are excited?

Pumped for next year and beyond? No, those are teams that have openly discussed blowing it up, rebuilding. What is the dream here? To be the Hawks and play a high level of ball but be limited by your talent level? Do we ignore Melo and Noah will be a year older?
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 3/15/2017 3:46 pm : link
to the point where I'd sign for Melo dealt for absolutely zero positive return (no added years of salary) if it meant the Knicks were signaling rebuild. That's how far I'm willing to go.
Im with you on direction Dan  
Deej : 3/15/2017 3:56 pm : link
(not sure re Melo for zero). I just dont believe that Dolan thinks that way, and the few fans he interacts with are likely of the "I just want to see good basketball already" variety. Unless he really soured this season.
Saving grace is that  
giantsfan44ab : 3/15/2017 3:57 pm : link
all these PGs will likely get 5 year max offers from their current teams. Teague, Holiday and Hill aren't guys who would neglect the extra pay bump and added year of financial security to come to the Knicks of all places.
Yes, that is a saving grace.  
bceagle05 : 3/15/2017 4:01 pm : link
We get top 10 picks because Phil's attempts at building a playoff team are such epic failures, and we avoid some bad free agent signings because guys don't want to come here anyway. Maybe he is just outsmarting everyone.
RE: I'm  
TyreeHelmet : 3/15/2017 4:01 pm : link
In comment 13394249 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
to the point where I'd sign for Melo dealt for absolutely zero positive return (no added years of salary) if it meant the Knicks were signaling rebuild. That's how far I'm willing to go.


Would you be willing to buy him out/ waive him? Allows for a clean break.

I also can't believe all this triangle talk. It's like a bad dream. Rambis and Phil running triangle drills at practice today? The focus should be on building a positive culture and some pride on defense. Jackson has failed miserably at that. I have no idea why he should be entrusted with another offseason. He needs to go.
RE: Yes, that is a saving grace.  
TyreeHelmet : 3/15/2017 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13394286 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
We get top 10 picks because Phil's attempts at building a playoff team are such epic failures, and we avoid some bad free agent signings because guys don't want to come here anyway. Maybe he is just outsmarting everyone.



Very funny but sadly also very true.
Phil thinks his  
Enzo : 3/15/2017 4:25 pm : link
bullshit offense is a metaphor for life and a path to transformational leadership and all that other nonsense he babbles about. And when he ultimately leaves here, he will be quick to blame his failures on Dolan or on young players not having the fundamentals to execute the concepts in his offense or whatever excuses he can come up with. And there might even be people who believe his excuses. But it's all bullshit.
Hill is perfect triangle pg  
hitdog42 : 3/15/2017 5:15 pm : link
That shouldn't be relevant as knicks shouldn't be going that way ... but if Phil is around and they can't draft a pg- it wouldn't be surprising

Nets rumored to love hill- can't see hill signing up to lose 55 games for a year
RE: Hill is perfect triangle pg  
giantsfan44ab : 3/15/2017 5:22 pm : link
In comment 13394389 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
That shouldn't be relevant as knicks shouldn't be going that way ... but if Phil is around and they can't draft a pg- it wouldn't be surprising

Nets rumored to love hill- can't see hill signing up to lose 55 games for a year


Also it wouldn't make sense for the Jazz to give up a first to get hill for a year, even if it was a back end first. Letting hill walk doesn't make sense if they want to keep Hayward. Aside from injuries, he's played as well as they could've hoped. Haven't had a PG anywhere near his caliber since D will got traded.
RE: Never got my feathers ruffled  
PhiPsi125 : 3/15/2017 5:24 pm : link
In comment 13394208 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
I just don't know how Mozgov can be classified as a "better" player than zubac, black, Randle or Nance.

Same thing with Deng vs Ingram. Young is honestly the hilarious one.

The hilarity of the Lakers benching those guys comes from their contracts and expected desperation for signing Paul george in 2 years. They're are going to likely have to part with one of Clarkson, Russell or Randle, and possibly a pick to make requisite cap room to go after PG.


I was just playing around...no offense intended.
Wouldn't ever happen  
giantsfan44ab : 3/15/2017 5:26 pm : link
But Melo would fit beautifully next to Gobert at the 4 spot. He's exactly what they'd need. A move like that would put Utah on par with Houston IMO.
I dont care what system they run  
nygiants16 : 3/15/2017 9:05 pm : link
as long as they commit to it and stop going back and forth, and they commit to a long term plan. tired of the quick fixes that never work..

Tyree i said i wiuld never just give away melo but at this point if melo is on this team next year i will be pissed, unless he commits to being the 2nd or 3rd option to kp and this years draft pick. that will never happen so ahip him off, i dont care for what
Dallas wins, New Orleans loses.  
bceagle05 : 3/15/2017 9:56 pm : link
Pelicans are a little too close for comfort in the tank race.
RE: Dallas wins, New Orleans loses.  
nygiants16 : 3/15/2017 9:58 pm : link
In comment 13394614 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Pelicans are a little too close for comfort in the tank race.


kings have to win tonight, not many more oppurtunities for them to win
RE: RE: Dallas wins, New Orleans loses.  
giantsfan44ab : 3/15/2017 11:11 pm : link
In comment 13394616 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13394614 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


Pelicans are a little too close for comfort in the tank race.



kings have to win tonight, not many more oppurtunities for them to win


The Kings will finish comfortably worse than the Knicks.

I can't believe I'm saying this but the Kings asset cupboard may not look all that bare. I think Hield has a hard ceiling but he's certainly a player. Maybe a 15 ppg that gives you spacing and potentially decent/good defense.

WCS didn't turn out all that bad offensively. Finds ways to get baskets, makes some nice passes too.

Skal might be the most intriguing of the Kings guys. He's extremely productive when he gets in and already seems to be an impact defensive player (from what I read, don't watch much Kings ball, shoot me). With some size he can be a KP-lite of sorts.

Then 2 top 10 picks. Hypothetically add Tatum/Fox to the mix. There's also the Greek center they took in the first this year.

Those are 5-6 guys as a Kings fan you can have real hope of becoming good basketball players. I don't know if I take that group over the Lakers group (if they keep their pick), but it's not as bad as say the Magic. I think I'd rather be a Kings fan as opposed to say the hornets or the Bulls to be completely honest.
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