-Knicks now 6th in the lottery. 1.5 games behind philly for the 5th spot and 2.5 games behind Orlando for 4th. Looking like they have a good chance at a top 5 pick.
- Rubio with 22 points and 19 assists last night. He's been playing great the last month. TWolves have played very well. 7-3 in their last 10 with some very impressive wins over GSW and Wizards. 3.5 games out of 8th seed but they should be formidable next year. Maybe Thibs trades for Butler?
- Butler with 22pts, 6 rebs, 11 assists last night.
- Brogdon 15 points and 8 assists
- Vinsanity with 24 points. Amazing what he's doing this late in his career.
- Big win for Utah over the Clippers. George Hill with 19 points, 8 rebs, 6 assists.
Isola - ( New Window )
If I'm Dolan that's when I step in and say no Phil.
Rose is the worst knick in years, Melo needs to go
We are stuck with Noah but oh well I can deal with that
Tank it up, get that top 5 pick and let horny/Phil pick a Guard
Haha...the Kyle Lowry effect!
If I'm Dolan that's when I step in and say no Phil.
Rose is the worst knick in years, Melo needs to go
We are stuck with Noah but oh well I can deal with that
Tank it up, get that top 5 pick and let horny/Phil pick a Guard
Ideally Phil resigns/ gets fired, they bring in a new GM and let Hornacek coach the team his way. Not being forced a system he doesn't believe in or is familiar with.
Wasn't the problem the Knicks were asking for extra assets and when they finally said they'd just do it straight up, the Wolves bailed?
Very true. I would still love to see Dolan offer "Phil money" to some of the top GMs. The GM salaries aren't really public knowledge, but best guess is the top ones make 3-5 mill a year and that's probably on the high end. Dangle that pot of gold and see if they take it.
Getting sick of this guy's act.
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but in the end did what's prudent and didn't part with extra assets. The deal fell through. I fully expect Rubio to embark on a HOF career from here on out.
Wasn't the problem the Knicks were asking for extra assets and when they finally said they'd just do it straight up, the Wolves bailed?
My understanding based on the reporting is that the Wolves were asking for another piece in addition to Rose for Rubio and the Knicks wouldn't budge on that.
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but in the end did what's prudent and didn't part with extra assets. The deal fell through. I fully expect Rubio to embark on a HOF career from here on out.
Wasn't the problem the Knicks were asking for extra assets and when they finally said they'd just do it straight up, the Wolves bailed?
No idea. Various reports seemed to say the Knicks didn't want to part with anything more than Rose. I'm sure they fucked something up.
I would just back (Jordan) in and lift him off the ground and call a foul every time he fouls me when I do a jump hook to the right or the left," Ball said. He cannot stop me one-on-one. He better make every shot cause he cant go around me. Hes not fast enough. And he can only make so many shots outside before I make every bucket under the rim."
Getting sick of this guy's act.
Not really. NBA jobs are scarce and there are plenty of guys who will run the triangle for an opportunity to be a head coach. Freakin' Mike Woodson said that he told Phil to teach him the triangle... keeping the job was far more important than any offensive philosophy.
Hornacek hasn't done literally one thing to show he deserves to keep his job. However, he's dealing with a locker room that has too many egotistical past their prime guys. I would give him a chance with a young team centered around KP, Willy, and the lottery pick.
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Not trying to be a youtube scout, but he doesn't look explosive to me. I know he's big and long, but he just doesn't jump off the screen with quickness or explosiveness.
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but in the end did what's prudent and didn't part with extra assets. The deal fell through. I fully expect Rubio to embark on a HOF career from here on out.
Wasn't the problem the Knicks were asking for extra assets and when they finally said they'd just do it straight up, the Wolves bailed?
This is correct
Most would not. But Phil is Phil.
Lonzo to me has a big bust potential. He reminds me of Dangeo Russell in the sense that he's not that athletic so how will a lot of the things he does well translate to the NBA? His shot is really bizarre, and his handle is too. Really, as loaded as this draft is to me all the prospects have really major question marks, I wouldn't be surprised if any of them were busts relative to expectations. Fultz seems to be the cleanest, but can he play defense?
MASSIVE disclaimer- I watch no college hoops so this is just from watching clips online and reading reports.
The difference between he and Russell, is that D'Angelo is a complete doofus.
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Smith
5. Tatum
6. Fox
7. Markkanen
8. Williams
9. Isaac
10. Monk
11. Hartenstein
12. Frenchy
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Smith
5. Tatum
6. Fox
7. Markkanen
8. Williams
9. Isaac
10. Monk
11. Hartenstein
12. Frenchy
That looks about right, at least for the Knicks. Don't think Isaac is a great fit here. Need a lead guard.
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awesome. It gives us a real shot at Lonzo, who is the guy I want.
Lonzo to me has a big bust potential. He reminds me of Dangeo Russell in the sense that he's not that athletic so how will a lot of the things he does well translate to the NBA? His shot is really bizarre, and his handle is too. Really, as loaded as this draft is to me all the prospects have really major question marks, I wouldn't be surprised if any of them were busts relative to expectations. Fultz seems to be the cleanest, but can he play defense?
MASSIVE disclaimer- I watch no college hoops so this is just from watching clips online and reading reports.
I'd say he's more athletic than Russell. Russell is one of the least explosive guards (he makes up a lot with an advanced handle/ability to shift directions quickly). Ball may not be elite but I think he's at least average. He can get up quickly.
I'd still lean Fultz with the #1 but Ball is easily in the discussion for #2. Josh Jackson is probably my favorite prospect in the draft and I'd lean that way but Ball is probably the consensus 2.
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1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Smith
5. Tatum
6. Fox
7. Markkanen
8. Williams
9. Isaac
10. Monk
11. Hartenstein
12. Frenchy
That looks about right, at least for the Knicks. Don't think Isaac is a great fit here. Need a lead guard.
I know you like Frenchy but to me if one of the "big 4" isn't there I'm not taking a PG. Obviously it would be great to come away with one but I'd hate to reach and as I said I don't think the ceiling merits the risk. Markkanen isn't a great fit for us either but I'd hate to pass on a superior talent for "need". We need talent...everywhere basically.
His defense would be the biggest concern for me. I think he can be a 20-10-5 guy by year 3 in the league easy.
The hitch in it makes you wonder if he can get it off vs bigger more athletic defenders. Can he get that off vs Wall or Kawhi?
What if they threw in Dunn as well?
What if they threw in Dunn as well?
Lavine AND Dunn? In a millisecond for me.
His defense would be the biggest concern for me. I think he can be a 20-10-5 guy by year 3 in the league easy.
The hitch in his shot will absolutely make it more difficult for him to get off against NBA defenders. Curry gets his shot off so quickly that it's impossible to defend, Ball is the opposite.
I'd love to get him, but there's definitely things to worry about with him
What if they threw in Dunn as well?
No.
I'm not far off from agreeing Williams over Fox. I think Williams is going to have late helium and yes there are those who think he will eventually have 3 point range. I think he could be a Rasheed Wallace type. High IQ, high character. I'm becoming a big big fan.
What if they threw in Dunn as well?
Where's the pick? 7th/8th overall is a big difference vs 2nd/3rd.
What if they get a top 2 pick. Would you trade it for Jimmy Butler?
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condoning Lavar Ball's statements saying Ball is better than Curry, but Ball has taken (and made) shots in college only curry could get away with. Not at all worried about his form. Offensively, he might be better than Steph as a pure point due to his size/vision.
His defense would be the biggest concern for me. I think he can be a 20-10-5 guy by year 3 in the league easy.
The hitch in his shot will absolutely make it more difficult for him to get off against NBA defenders. Curry gets his shot off so quickly that it's impossible to defend, Ball is the opposite.
I'd love to get him, but there's definitely things to worry about with him
But at the same time he is 6'6", so you have to consider that the average height of the player guarding him will probably be like 6'3".
How is it a waste? If the player in question is significantly worse off but fits a position of need, I don't understand that logic.
If we are talking about getting Dennis Schroeder at the point vs Shawn Kemp at the 5 (not my comparisons, draft net has these) I think I'm damn sure which one I'll be taking. I don't think the discrepancy from Fox to Williams is equivalent to the talent discrepancy of Kemp vs Schroeder, but I personally think the answer lies somewhere within those 2. And if scouts/GMs agree, then what's the issue?
I'm as big of a WH fan as there is, but if we're talking about pairing KP with a potential perennial All defensive team player at the 5, Willy wouldn't stop me from doing so. I also think long term, the offensive value of Willy won't be higher than Williams, if at all. Willy can be a fantastic 6th man. But
WH can be a serviceable defender, but given his athletic limitations I don't have high hopes for him as being a dominant defensive enforcer. I'm not sure who would, to be honest with you.
Not saying Willy is useless, but it's hard to justify giving 30+ minutes a night to a 5 that doesn't space the floor or protects the rim. Hell, JV in Toronto isn't an awful rim protector but Toronto can't justify giving him more than 25 minutes a night. It just means we should expect Willy to play more of an Enes Kanter role rather than Marc Gasol.
If Isaiah Thomas started shooting like Carlos Boozer his release point would still be like 5 inches below where Ball's release starts.
Markannen is going to be a wonderful pro imo.
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want a 4 or 5. Waste of resource, unless its a massive talent difference. Like if we end up with the #1 pick next year and Deandre Ayton is still the consensus #1, sure. At the 7th pick in the draft, it makes no sense.
How is it a waste? If the player in question is significantly worse off but fits a position of need, I don't understand that logic.
If we are talking about getting Dennis Schroeder at the point vs Shawn Kemp at the 5 (not my comparisons, draft net has these) I think I'm damn sure which one I'll be taking. I don't think the discrepancy from Fox to Williams is equivalent to the talent discrepancy of Kemp vs Schroeder, but I personally think the answer lies somewhere within those 2. And if scouts/GMs agree, then what's the issue?
I'm as big of a WH fan as there is, but if we're talking about pairing KP with a potential perennial All defensive team player at the 5, Willy wouldn't stop me from doing so. I also think long term, the offensive value of Willy won't be higher than Williams, if at all. Willy can be a fantastic 6th man. But
WH can be a serviceable defender, but given his athletic limitations I don't have high hopes for him as being a dominant defensive enforcer. I'm not sure who would, to be honest with you.
Except how often in an NBA Draft do you have that kind of talent discrepancy between two players at 7? No, you don't reach for players who aren't skilled, but you aren't going to tell me that Williams was a top 3 player who somehow magically slipped. In fact, Fox is higher ranked on basically every mock draft, so its not as if he's a bum we'd be reaching for in your theoretical.
We have 2 above replacement level young players, who are both bigs. I just don't see the value in drafting a player at 4 or 5 who is similarly talented to a guy who is a 1 or a wing. The odds are at 7 you are getting a solid starter/role player and not a star, so why go at a position which clearly isn't a need?
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Smith
5. Tatum
6. Fox
7. Markkanen
8. Williams
9. Isaac
10. Monk
11. Hartenstein
12. Frenchy
I've started clip watching and reading. I have groupings. 1) Fultz 2) Ball and Jackson 3) Tatum, Smith, Markkanen, and Isaac. Maybe Monk in #3 as well.
I used to love Monk, but more and more he looks like a second banana on a good team, strictly a scorer. Maybe even a rich man's Ben Gordon.
Jackson is very good, but don't know if he has that "it" factor. Fultz and Ball do, not sure about Jackson.
Tatum is growing on me, but I think Jackson is the better athlete so I give him the nod.
Love Smith. The down year is concerning though.
BTW, do we have our first pick next year?
-I already like Magic more than Phil. Healthy scratch to Mozgoc the remainder of the year to look at their other players? Lol do that to Melo, Rose etc
Remember, Russell had a 39" vertical at the combine. He could shoot and had even better court vision than Fultz, and we know how he's turned out.
Not saying Fultz isn't going to be good, but you can't really say any prospect in this class is can't-miss.
But even with the PGs, the question must be asked -- when has a PG led team won a title? Since 1991, all but __ titles have been won by teams whose best players were wings or bigs (Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, KG, Dirk, MJ, Wade, Kobe, LeBron). That leaves the 2004 Pistons, aka "the Exception to every rule", and the Curry led Warriors. Curry is only kind of a PG, and more to the point is a singular shooter in NBA history. Probably have to go back to Magic to see a floor general PG led team win it all.
So is that a trend, or noise? I.e. Shaq, Duncan, MJ, LeBron were all the best player, regardless of position. Or is there something to it, that you're not going to win if you have a best player as a PG?
Luckily, I think it is not crazy for the Knicks to approach the draft thinking they have their Batman and just need a Robin for him. Or at least a 1a for their 1. Whereas a team like ORL or PHX is still shopping for a guy who can lead them.
2 jackson
3 tatum
4 fox
5 monk
i have not seen enough of isaac or williams and markannen doesnt seem like a great fit next to kp..
For whatever reason you don't like Ball, Fultz, Frenchy as lead guards, just play them at the 2. I don't know what would scare you about Ball or Fultz at the PG, but if you have someone else you'd rather run point, you can go ahead.
For Fox, I think almost all the intrigue is in his length/athleticism. To me he's serviceable as a PG but he doesn't do anything a PG does at a high level. He can run simply PnRs, but he's not even close to like John Wall as a passer (not saying thats what people are expecting, but it seems that's what Fox-hopefuls will be talking themselves into come draft time, just like Ingram and KD).
He's rail thin, and unlike Jackson/Isaac, he doesn't play stronger/more physical than his build suggests. He struggles finishing through contact from what I've seen. And Kentucky fans are up in arms about how he can't stay in front of good college PGs to save his life.
There's lots of red flags for Fox for me. I think he will end up being fine, but not elite. He'll end up in that 10-20 class of PGs where you can switch all of them around and it doesn't matter which one you end up with. Those guys you can get any year in FA if you want (albeit at a hefty price). I don't think he's the type thats worth taking the risk on with a top 6-7 pick in a supposed great class.
I just see alot more Emmanuel Mudiay than John Wall in Fox. Just me personally.
not to mention he was playing at 85%
I tend to agree. Jackson would have to be significantly better in the scouts eyes to justify the pick IMO, given that there are no sure things anyway.
There is really a dearth of guard depth in the league. The depth among the top 10-15 PGs disguises that. SG is super thin. There are few good, two way bench guards. It is far easier to cobble together 96 minutes a night at the 4-5 on the cheap ($$/asset wise), especially given what we already have.
And I think not getting a PG will hamper KP and WH's development. I'd reach a bit for a PG -- although I want a pick and roll guy, and Phil would have to leave for that.
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get a guard, specifically a point, from the rest of the top tier group. Going BPA is obviously the best philosophy, but I can just imagine KP and Jackson getting 12-15 shots a game while our pathetic guards dribbling the ball off their feet.
I tend to agree. Jackson would have to be significantly better in the scouts eyes to justify the pick IMO, given that there are no sure things anyway.
There is really a dearth of guard depth in the league. The depth among the top 10-15 PGs disguises that. SG is super thin. There are few good, two way bench guards. It is far easier to cobble together 96 minutes a night at the 4-5 on the cheap ($$/asset wise), especially given what we already have.
And I think not getting a PG will hamper KP and WH's development. I'd reach a bit for a PG -- although I want a pick and roll guy, and Phil would have to leave for that.
But what happens if we reach for a point and we get a good but not great PG? Like a #15-ish guy? Someone we can get in FA?
I don't think relying on a raw 19 year old PG is going to expedite KP/WH's development anymore than keeping Rose or getting a guy like Collison to run point for a few years to be completely honest with you.
Also I wouldn't rule out Josh Jackson's potential as a future PG. Remember GF looked awful at his first go as the team's PG. Heck the Lakers have tried Ingram at the point and same with the Suns and Booker. Josh Jackson has better PG skills than either of those 2.
He has it all, and is a more willing passer compared to other PG prospects with his gifts.
We have to keep tanking to keep him in the conversation for our pick.
I don't know how I feel about Fox. You can't judge a Kentucky player by their play on the court unfortunately, so it's all projection. If anybody is going to take a Westbrook-like leap, it's probably him though.
If we draft a PG, regardless of how good, with the thinking of helping KP/Willy, I'd be scared if we left that in the hands of Fox. He needs more development than either of our young bigs IMO.
I don't care what system you decide to run, a good PG will solve a lot of things. I don't see the me-first attitude with Smith, but who knows?
But what happens if we reach for a point and we get a good but not great PG? Like a #15-ish guy? Someone we can get in FA?
I don't think relying on a raw 19 year old PG is going to expedite KP/WH's development anymore than keeping Rose or getting a guy like Collison to run point for a few years to be completely honest with you.
Also I wouldn't rule out Josh Jackson's potential as a future PG. Remember GF looked awful at his first go as the team's PG. Heck the Lakers have tried Ingram at the point and same with the Suns and Booker. Josh Jackson has better PG skills than either of those 2.
What top 15 PG are we getting in UFA? Im 100% tired of waiting to fix issues in UFA. The fix doesnt come. Hard as hell to get guards in particular. Only thing you can reliable count on in UFA is defensively capable centers. Collison is not a top 15 PG.
And in any event, the same logic applies to other position. Why take a SF when you can sign one in UFA. As I said, a much superior F or C you take over a PG. But otherwise fill the glaring need for a G.
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But what happens if we reach for a point and we get a good but not great PG? Like a #15-ish guy? Someone we can get in FA?
I don't think relying on a raw 19 year old PG is going to expedite KP/WH's development anymore than keeping Rose or getting a guy like Collison to run point for a few years to be completely honest with you.
Also I wouldn't rule out Josh Jackson's potential as a future PG. Remember GF looked awful at his first go as the team's PG. Heck the Lakers have tried Ingram at the point and same with the Suns and Booker. Josh Jackson has better PG skills than either of those 2.
What top 15 PG are we getting in UFA? Im 100% tired of waiting to fix issues in UFA. The fix doesnt come. Hard as hell to get guards in particular. Only thing you can reliable count on in UFA is defensively capable centers. Collison is not a top 15 PG.
And in any event, the same logic applies to other position. Why take a SF when you can sign one in UFA. As I said, a much superior F or C you take over a PG. But otherwise fill the glaring need for a G.
Thats true too, but drafting an 18 year old with the expectation that he will immediately be able to help with the devlelopment of KP/Willy seems like a bad reason to reach.
Rubio isn't a top 15 PG, but wouldn't you think he'd be an ideal type of guy to help young guys to develop? To that extend, wouldn't Rogriduez fill that hole even if he's awful on D and can't really shoot?
To me there's a risk that a guy like Fox could be a head down, score first guard in the same vein as Derrick Rose. I can say with 100% confidence that Fox will not be a top 15 PG on the first day he sets foot on an NBA court. How many rookie PGs are? Heck, it would be impressive if a rookie Ball/Fultz/Smith would be immediately better than a Jrue Holiday or Dennis Schroeder. It would even be impressive if those guys became a top 10 PG by year 3.
I dont know why the standard to take a PG has to be "will he be a top 15 pg on day 1". It's a silly standard. Also, a PG doesnt need to be good, overall, to help his bigs. He just needs to do things that help the bigs. It's like a QB who takes sacks and throws picks -- does that mean he's bad for WRs? No, on the 90% of plays he isnt messing up, he could still deliver a great ball.
Addressing holes for the sake of addressing holes is how you end up with Mudiay or Dunn. Not saying that's what fox or frenchy will become, but that's the road you head down when you just look for need.
I'm sure Nuggets fans would've gone beserk if they took Booker instead of Mudiay but who would that look now?
Same with the wolves if they took hield, murray or chriss over Dunn.
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I prefer a PG but a SG would be nice too. I don't want Jackson or Tatum even though I admit they're good players. I am just tired of not addressing the glaring holes on this team. They have a first and 2 seconds. If they can't get one of the PG's in the first then I want them to grab one with their 2nd rounder. Jawun Evans from OK State would be good there. Maybe Derrick White from Colorado or Monte Morris from Iowa State as well.
Addressing holes for the sake of addressing holes is how you end up with Mudiay or Dunn. Not saying that's what fox or frenchy will become, but that's the road you head down when you just look for need.
I'm sure Nuggets fans would've gone beserk if they took Booker instead of Mudiay but who would that look now?
Same with the wolves if they took hield, murray or chriss over Dunn.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Plus I think it's a bit premature to write guys in their rookie seasons off. Dunn might develop. You don't know that.
I understand your point though (no pun intended).
I dont know why the standard to take a PG has to be "will he be a top 15 pg on day 1". It's a silly standard. Also, a PG doesnt need to be good, overall, to help his bigs. He just needs to do things that help the bigs. It's like a QB who takes sacks and throws picks -- does that mean he's bad for WRs? No, on the 90% of plays he isnt messing up, he could still deliver a great ball.
That's literally my point. My biggest worry about fox is that he doesn't do anything in terms of passing at a high level. So taking Fox because he would supposedly do a better job at developing KP compared to arose/Calderon the day he steps onto a court would be a mistake.
On the other hand, playing Rodriguez 33 minutes a game over 82 games might leave you with 15 wins on the season, but it wouldn't come at the expense of KP/Willy not running pick and rolls and getting proper post entries.
However, fox may be better than rogriguez day 1 and get you 20 wins, but would he be any better than Rodriguez in terms of helping KP/Willy his rookie year?
I think not.
I got your point bro. No worries.
Ty Lawson would've been another guy to add to the list but it seems his life is out of sorts at this point, bad culture fit.
There's also deron Williams but I think he might be ring chasing at this point.
The Vertical - ( New Window )
I hate evaluations based on record. I dont think Phil has been a disaster. I dont think he has succeeded, but I see no reason to traffic in hyperbole. I kill the Rose and Noah deals, but they're not disasters. If we had 30 more wins in the Phil era I wouldnt feel any better about this team.
My big issue with him right now is (1) he hasnt actually, publicly fessed up and agreed to a rebuild, and more importantly, (2) this triangle nonsense and the undermining of coaches. That's a huge issue. Basically, there are two people in the league committed to the triangle -- Phil, and Rambis. One is physically incapable of coaching, and the other is a bad coach. Everyone else will do it just enough to get hired but wont embrace it. Furthermore, unlike the Bulls and Lakers, which had their stars in place and were therefore able to have stable rosters, the Knicks roster is like a bus station, with massive turnover. Tough to install the triangle that way.
I do agree with the premise. Phil needs to coach or quit (only thing I can think of is him running practice and coaching home, BK, and Philly games). Seems pretty unlikely to happen, so he should quit. But he wont.
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I prefer a PG but a SG would be nice too. I don't want Jackson or Tatum even though I admit they're good players. I am just tired of not addressing the glaring holes on this team. They have a first and 2 seconds. If they can't get one of the PG's in the first then I want them to grab one with their 2nd rounder. Jawun Evans from OK State would be good there. Maybe Derrick White from Colorado or Monte Morris from Iowa State as well.
Addressing holes for the sake of addressing holes is how you end up with Mudiay or Dunn. Not saying that's what fox or frenchy will become, but that's the road you head down when you just look for need.
I'm sure Nuggets fans would've gone beserk if they took Booker instead of Mudiay but who would that look now?
Same with the wolves if they took hield, murray or chriss over Dunn.
You can make that case for a million players at a million positions. Think the Kings don't wish they had Booker instead of WCS, who pretty much matches the description you are giving for Williams pre draft? Unless the talent gap is massive between two players, which rarely happens past the top 3-5 in an NBA draft, you pick the guy that fills a need. It happens in the NFL because some teams pick for need which causes better players to slip, and in the MLB draft because of money requests, but not really in the NBA.
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In comment 13393073 EricNY33 said:
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I prefer a PG but a SG would be nice too. I don't want Jackson or Tatum even though I admit they're good players. I am just tired of not addressing the glaring holes on this team. They have a first and 2 seconds. If they can't get one of the PG's in the first then I want them to grab one with their 2nd rounder. Jawun Evans from OK State would be good there. Maybe Derrick White from Colorado or Monte Morris from Iowa State as well.
Addressing holes for the sake of addressing holes is how you end up with Mudiay or Dunn. Not saying that's what fox or frenchy will become, but that's the road you head down when you just look for need.
I'm sure Nuggets fans would've gone beserk if they took Booker instead of Mudiay but who would that look now?
Same with the wolves if they took hield, murray or chriss over Dunn.
You can make that case for a million players at a million positions. Think the Kings don't wish they had Booker instead of WCS, who pretty much matches the description you are giving for Williams pre draft? Unless the talent gap is massive between two players, which rarely happens past the top 3-5 in an NBA draft, you pick the guy that fills a need. It happens in the NFL because some teams pick for need which causes better players to slip, and in the MLB draft because of money requests, but not really in the NBA.
No I total get what you are saying. We aren't arguing about a can't miss prospect, consensus #1 vs a PG thats projected late 1st.
We'll see it in a few months. Williams played for a bad team and wasn't hyped before the draft, but he's inched his way into the top 10 as the season drifted on. He also had a great game against UK like 2 weeks ago.
The tournament will unfairly hype up/cool down some prospects, but when the dust settles I'll be interested to see what scouts say about Williams after they finish up the tournament film.
And no, WCS doesn't matchup with my personal take on Williams. WCS was just a pure defensive prospect with PnR ability. Was more Tyson Chandler but worse rebounding. Williams is a far superior rebounder, shooter, and post up player than WCS. I think he's more of an Antonio Mcdyess/Derrick Favors type than a Tyson Chandler. Draft net compares him to Shawn Kemp, and while thats a pretty high bar I do think he has that potential given his athleticism, size and feel for the game.
He's shown some promise since the Cousins trade. He's averaging 14 ppg, albeit on mediocre shooting (48%) but he's been taking tons of jump shots since then. Which is something you'd want to experiment with when you're tanking. You get him a proper PnR PG to maximize his offensive game and he's more than a fine player on offense and a stud defender. He'll probably never be a good rebounder, but I still take him over the next 4 guys that were drafted after (Mudiay, Kaminsky, Winslow, and Johnson) and two of the guys taken ahead of him (Okafor and Hezonja). I'd give a slight edge to Russell, but not much.
So even though he's not Turner things could've been much worse for SAC.
I do agree with the premise. Phil needs to coach or quit (only thing I can think of is him running practice and coaching home, BK, and Philly games). Seems pretty unlikely to happen, so he should quit. But he wont.
Phil will never coach this team. He wouldn't if he was healthy and he certainly won't now. Nor should he. What is the great Phil Jackson going to do with this team as a coach? Absolutely nothing. I don't see Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol, and others walking through the door.
I can't take away any of Phil's achievements or pedigree...but his crowing achievement was being able to surround himself with multiple HOF players on each of his teams. Pretty easy to win that way. No matter what offensive system you implement.
Nice game for Willy so far... 13 points, 14 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals, 1 block
This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.
This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.
It's not Magic. They started off 10-10. Then they stopped giving Randle minutes at center. And then they started experimenting with Ingram at PG.
This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.
and what player do the lakera have remotely close to melo or rose?
is russell still playing? randle? their best players are still playing..
also another thing you seem to not take into consideration, the lakers lose their pick if it is outside top 3 so they have to lose
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Magic gets it. Phil still wants to play and win games. Magic sees the forest through the trees and "let's the kids play."
This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.
and what player do the lakera have remotely close to melo or rose?
is russell still playing? randle? their best players are still playing..
also another thing you seem to not take into consideration, the lakers lose their pick if it is outside top 3 so they have to lose
What's your point? Who cares if they don't have anyone as good as Melo or Rose? He's still scratching quality player(s) that would help them lose while seeing what they have in other players.
I wasn't aware of their pick situation (which makes sense) but I'm not understanding why this seems to bother some of you.
Ball to LA.
Jackson fits perfectly at the 3 for PHO.
Orlando finally gets a PG it likes in Smith.
Tatum continues his hot streak into the tourney, Vivek falls in love.
Philly adds its shooter in Monk.
NY gets Isaac, another polarizing prospect, and will get picked apart just like they did for taking KP.
Mozgov...healthy scratch for the remainder of the season.
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Mozgov...healthy scratch for the remainder of the season.
he hasnt been in the rotation since christmas, it is not something magic did, he hasnt been playing anyway
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In comment 13393434 PhiPsi125 said:
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Magic gets it. Phil still wants to play and win games. Magic sees the forest through the trees and "let's the kids play."
This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.
and what player do the lakera have remotely close to melo or rose?
is russell still playing? randle? their best players are still playing..
also another thing you seem to not take into consideration, the lakers lose their pick if it is outside top 3 so they have to lose
What's your point? Who cares if they don't have anyone as good as Melo or Rose? He's still scratching quality player(s) that would help them lose while seeing what they have in other players.
I wasn't aware of their pick situation (which makes sense) but I'm not understanding why this seems to bother some of you.
Who are these "quality" players on the Lakers? Deng? Ingram is better than Deng at this point. Mozgov? Mozgov is the 5th best big man in LA.
Nick Young? Seriously?
The only veteran they scratched was Lou Williams and that was a decision made long before Magic was hired.
The Lakers aren't going to lose any more games than they were going to anyways.
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I do agree with the premise. Phil needs to coach or quit (only thing I can think of is him running practice and coaching home, BK, and Philly games). Seems pretty unlikely to happen, so he should quit. But he wont.
Phil will never coach this team. He wouldn't if he was healthy and he certainly won't now. Nor should he. What is the great Phil Jackson going to do with this team as a coach? Absolutely nothing. I don't see Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol, and others walking through the door.
I can't take away any of Phil's achievements or pedigree...but his crowing achievement was being able to surround himself with multiple HOF players on each of his teams. Pretty easy to win that way. No matter what offensive system you implement.
My point was that if he is going to insist on the triangle, he really needs to be the coach. Because only he and Rambis are committed to it in the NBA, and Rambis cannot be the coach.
My preference is that we stop with this triangle BS. We have two PnR/PnP bigs. Go get a pick and __ PG and you have an offense.
I don't even see how you can evaluate hornacek as a coach in such a toxic environment as MSG. Does anyone think Hornacek actually has control here? That he would have been okay with Rose just disappearing and then getting to start again when he shows up? Or that he's not fed up with the lazy defense and constant defensive switching that have infected this team since long before he got this job?
This is what happens when you have a bunch of people with their own self interests at stake - I'm sure Hornanek wants as many wins as possible for his next job interview. Melo wants his stats, Rose wants a big contract this summer, Phil wants to gratify his own ego with this triangle bullshit. Anyone looking out for the best interests of the Knicks? Nope.
You dont tank by having your players play worse than they should. You tank by sitting guys out, spreading minutes around, and being committed to developing players over putting the best lineup out there.
I'm sure in the coming weeks fans will get what they want and see Melo/Rose benched the last few games. I believe they've been resting Melo on back to backs as well.
This team lost 4 home games in a row (including the Lakers, Nuggets and a CP3-less Clippers team) and then beat the Spurs. They lose to the Nets and then beat the Pacers. Big whoop. If it was the other way around, people wouldn't complain as much.
I'm a Sam Hinkie fan boy. I advocate the tank. I trust the tank. But everyone one of us knew this team wouldn't be sniffing a top 5 pick (barring lottery odds). Anyone who thought so is just making a narrative to shit on the Knicks even more. Trust me. I do that probably more than anyone else.
Just buckle up tight. There really isn't much season left. There's march madness right now (if that's your thing) and then playoffs are in sniffing distance afterwards. There's really nothing to complain about one way or the other at this point. Save that energy for the whole YouTube-scout part of the season.
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Update @YahooBDL: The Lakers will now put Timofey Mozgov *and* Luol Deng on the shelf for the rest of the year. https://yhoo.it/2mKslwR
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Update @YahooBDL: The Lakers will now put Timofey Mozgov *and* Luol Deng on the shelf for the rest of the year. https://yhoo.it/2mKslwR
Be careful, Dan. I said the same thing last night and people got their feathers all ruffled about it. Lord only knows why.
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Dan DevineVerified account @YourManDevine 24m24 minutes ago
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Update @YahooBDL: The Lakers will now put Timofey Mozgov *and* Luol Deng on the shelf for the rest of the year. https://yhoo.it/2mKslwR
Be careful, Dan. I said the same thing last night and people got their feathers all ruffled about it. Lord only knows why.
The only thing controversial/silly about the Lakers plan is their need to "announce" it. Play your better players far less, play your lesser players far more. It's not that difficult. Expecting Melo not to play like "regular" Melo is silly
Same thing with Deng vs Ingram. Young is honestly the hilarious one.
The hilarity of the Lakers benching those guys comes from their contracts and expected desperation for signing Paul george in 2 years. They're are going to likely have to part with one of Clarkson, Russell or Randle, and possibly a pick to make requisite cap room to go after PG.
On the other hand, there is no non-tanking justification to sit Melo (unless you're making a point about him not taking to the coaching). Rose of course has only 2 UDFA rookies at PG competition. Just different.
I love the headline of that article you posted - something about our chances for Teague "slipping away," as if he's Steph Curry or Russell Westbrook. I'd be more concerned if our chances of landing him were improving.
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really going to be sick if we go chasing the Hill, Teague types. Even if we don't take a PG I still wouldn't do something like that.
I love the headline of that article you posted - something about our chances for Teague "slipping away," as if he's Steph Curry or Russell Westbrook. I'd be more concerned if our chances of landing him were improving.
I'll be furious if we are the high bidders on Teague or Hill. Furious.
I'll be furious if we are the high bidders on Teague or Hill. Furious.
Get ready for it. I dont know why anyone is expecting a rebuild. Phil hasnt said it. Lets say they get a 2/3 prospect that they think is a huge steal -- most likely is Monk, Isaac, or Tatum. Melo balks at a trade. What makes anyone here confident that the Knicks dont say, fuck it, Noah/Willy-KP-Melo-rookie-Hill is a #4 seed with a developmental path as the 3 young players age? I think that is way more likely than the Knicks saying "fuck Melo, we're in The Process(R) and we're going to spend this season on development, and not maximize wins."
I'll buy the Knicks as a rebuilding team when I see it. We always push our chips to the middle of the table the first chance we get. We're chasing this middle tier of PGs.
But I have no faith in the Knicks doing that - Deej's scenario sounds far more realistic, based on the evidence.
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I'll be furious if we are the high bidders on Teague or Hill. Furious.
Get ready for it. I dont know why anyone is expecting a rebuild. Phil hasnt said it. Lets say they get a 2/3 prospect that they think is a huge steal -- most likely is Monk, Isaac, or Tatum. Melo balks at a trade. What makes anyone here confident that the Knicks dont say, fuck it, Noah/Willy-KP-Melo-rookie-Hill is a #4 seed with a developmental path as the 3 young players age? I think that is way more likely than the Knicks saying "fuck Melo, we're in The Process(R) and we're going to spend this season on development, and not maximize wins."
I'll buy the Knicks as a rebuilding team when I see it. We always push our chips to the middle of the table the first chance we get. We're chasing this middle tier of PGs.
And I'm sure some homers will defend it. I won't. The Knicks have to accept they aren't a very talented roster and likely need 2 good off-seasons to become one. Signing guys like Teague (30 in year 2 of a multi-year deal) or Hill (already turning 31 in May) would mean we outbid other teams for guys leaving their prime. Awful franchises do that. The 2017-2018 Knicks will still be nowhere near competing with the top teams with Jeff Teague and a rookie like Isaac or Tatum. Better? For sure. But the are about to win 30ish games, it would be tough not to be "better". This consistent argument on BBI that "being better" is some sort of victory is really perplexing. You really think Pistons fans (6 more wins), Indiana (7 more wins) are excited?
Pumped for next year and beyond? No, those are teams that have openly discussed blowing it up, rebuilding. What is the dream here? To be the Hawks and play a high level of ball but be limited by your talent level? Do we ignore Melo and Noah will be a year older?
Would you be willing to buy him out/ waive him? Allows for a clean break.
I also can't believe all this triangle talk. It's like a bad dream. Rambis and Phil running triangle drills at practice today? The focus should be on building a positive culture and some pride on defense. Jackson has failed miserably at that. I have no idea why he should be entrusted with another offseason. He needs to go.
Very funny but sadly also very true.
Nets rumored to love hill- can't see hill signing up to lose 55 games for a year
Nets rumored to love hill- can't see hill signing up to lose 55 games for a year
Also it wouldn't make sense for the Jazz to give up a first to get hill for a year, even if it was a back end first. Letting hill walk doesn't make sense if they want to keep Hayward. Aside from injuries, he's played as well as they could've hoped. Haven't had a PG anywhere near his caliber since D will got traded.
Same thing with Deng vs Ingram. Young is honestly the hilarious one.
The hilarity of the Lakers benching those guys comes from their contracts and expected desperation for signing Paul george in 2 years. They're are going to likely have to part with one of Clarkson, Russell or Randle, and possibly a pick to make requisite cap room to go after PG.
I was just playing around...no offense intended.
Tyree i said i wiuld never just give away melo but at this point if melo is on this team next year i will be pissed, unless he commits to being the 2nd or 3rd option to kp and this years draft pick. that will never happen so ahip him off, i dont care for what
kings have to win tonight, not many more oppurtunities for them to win
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Pelicans are a little too close for comfort in the tank race.
kings have to win tonight, not many more oppurtunities for them to win
The Kings will finish comfortably worse than the Knicks.
I can't believe I'm saying this but the Kings asset cupboard may not look all that bare. I think Hield has a hard ceiling but he's certainly a player. Maybe a 15 ppg that gives you spacing and potentially decent/good defense.
WCS didn't turn out all that bad offensively. Finds ways to get baskets, makes some nice passes too.
Skal might be the most intriguing of the Kings guys. He's extremely productive when he gets in and already seems to be an impact defensive player (from what I read, don't watch much Kings ball, shoot me). With some size he can be a KP-lite of sorts.
Then 2 top 10 picks. Hypothetically add Tatum/Fox to the mix. There's also the Greek center they took in the first this year.
Those are 5-6 guys as a Kings fan you can have real hope of becoming good basketball players. I don't know if I take that group over the Lakers group (if they keep their pick), but it's not as bad as say the Magic. I think I'd rather be a Kings fan as opposed to say the hornets or the Bulls to be completely honest.