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NFT: Knicks/ NBA Talk 3/14

TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 10:46 am
-Knicks now 6th in the lottery. 1.5 games behind philly for the 5th spot and 2.5 games behind Orlando for 4th. Looking like they have a good chance at a top 5 pick.
- Rubio with 22 points and 19 assists last night. He's been playing great the last month. TWolves have played very well. 7-3 in their last 10 with some very impressive wins over GSW and Wizards. 3.5 games out of 8th seed but they should be formidable next year. Maybe Thibs trades for Butler?
- Butler with 22pts, 6 rebs, 11 assists last night.
- Brogdon 15 points and 8 assists
- Vinsanity with 24 points. Amazing what he's doing this late in his career.
- Big win for Utah over the Clippers. George Hill with 19 points, 8 rebs, 6 assists.
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Coaching Change  
TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 10:54 am : link
Isola speculating that Hornacek could get axed. I think Jackson has done a terrible job but this would be a new low. Unless Phil decides to coach himself, or Dolan cleans house firing Jackson, I can't see this happening. Is he going to hire Rambis to replace Hornacek?
Isola - ( New Window )
the Knicks almost landed Rubio  
djm : 3/14/2017 10:58 am : link
but in the end did what's prudent and didn't part with extra assets. The deal fell through. I fully expect Rubio to embark on a HOF career from here on out.
No way Horny should be fired  
DennyInDenville : 3/14/2017 11:01 am : link
No way at all.

If I'm Dolan that's when I step in and say no Phil.

Rose is the worst knick in years, Melo needs to go

We are stuck with Noah but oh well I can deal with that

Tank it up, get that top 5 pick and let horny/Phil pick a Guard
Is tonight's game still a Go?  
DennyInDenville : 3/14/2017 11:02 am : link
Any word?
RE: the Knicks almost landed Rubio  
TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 11:03 am : link
In comment 13392551 djm said:
Quote:
but in the end did what's prudent and didn't part with extra assets. The deal fell through. I fully expect Rubio to embark on a HOF career from here on out.


Haha...the Kyle Lowry effect!
RE: No way Horny should be fired  
TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 11:04 am : link
In comment 13392560 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
No way at all.

If I'm Dolan that's when I step in and say no Phil.

Rose is the worst knick in years, Melo needs to go

We are stuck with Noah but oh well I can deal with that

Tank it up, get that top 5 pick and let horny/Phil pick a Guard


Ideally Phil resigns/ gets fired, they bring in a new GM and let Hornacek coach the team his way. Not being forced a system he doesn't believe in or is familiar with.
RE: the Knicks almost landed Rubio  
Sgrcts : 3/14/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13392551 djm said:
Quote:
but in the end did what's prudent and didn't part with extra assets. The deal fell through. I fully expect Rubio to embark on a HOF career from here on out.


Wasn't the problem the Knicks were asking for extra assets and when they finally said they'd just do it straight up, the Wolves bailed?
Presumably  
DanMetroMan : 3/14/2017 11:05 am : link
a new GM would want to hire his own coach.
The Knicks are doomed  
blueblood : 3/14/2017 11:06 am : link
Phil Jackson is just stealing money from the Knicks.
if only they didn't blow those 2 games to Orl  
giants#1 : 3/14/2017 11:09 am : link
in the last few weeks. They'd be in position for a top 4 pick.
RE: Presumably  
TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13392573 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
a new GM would want to hire his own coach.


Very true. I would still love to see Dolan offer "Phil money" to some of the top GMs. The GM salaries aren't really public knowledge, but best guess is the top ones make 3-5 mill a year and that's probably on the high end. Dangle that pot of gold and see if they take it.
Good lucking finding another coach to hire if Phil is just going to  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/14/2017 11:16 am : link
undermine everyone he hires.

Getting sick of this guy's act.
RE: RE: the Knicks almost landed Rubio  
PhiPsi125 : 3/14/2017 11:24 am : link
In comment 13392572 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
In comment 13392551 djm said:


Quote:


but in the end did what's prudent and didn't part with extra assets. The deal fell through. I fully expect Rubio to embark on a HOF career from here on out.



Wasn't the problem the Knicks were asking for extra assets and when they finally said they'd just do it straight up, the Wolves bailed?


My understanding based on the reporting is that the Wolves were asking for another piece in addition to Rose for Rubio and the Knicks wouldn't budge on that.
RE: RE: the Knicks almost landed Rubio  
djm : 3/14/2017 11:40 am : link
In comment 13392572 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
In comment 13392551 djm said:


Quote:


but in the end did what's prudent and didn't part with extra assets. The deal fell through. I fully expect Rubio to embark on a HOF career from here on out.



Wasn't the problem the Knicks were asking for extra assets and when they finally said they'd just do it straight up, the Wolves bailed?


No idea. Various reports seemed to say the Knicks didn't want to part with anything more than Rose. I'm sure they fucked something up.
..  
DanMetroMan : 3/14/2017 11:40 am : link
The mouth was motoring during a recent interview with USA TODAY Sports while LaVar Ball stood in the kitchen of his home here, about 35 miles east of Los Angeles and heaven only knows how far from reality.

“I would just back (Jordan) in and lift him off the ground and call a foul every time he fouls me when I do a jump hook to the right or the left," Ball said. “He cannot stop me one-on-one. He better make every shot ’cause he can’t go around me. He’s not fast enough. And he can only make so many shots outside before I make every bucket under the rim."

He also  
Sgrcts : 3/14/2017 11:48 am : link
Asked for a billion dollar shoe deal for all the Ball boys. Hilarious. One of them isn't even an NBA prospect.
Prospect  
TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 12:12 pm : link
If the Knicks pick came down to Fox or Smith, who would you choose? Fox looked great over the weekend but Smith demonstrates a lot of traits you want in a NBA PG.
I may be in the minority  
Carl in CT : 3/14/2017 12:33 pm : link
But I take Fox hands down. Why? Watch him play defense which we haven't had in a PG in a long time. Smith (to me) is one of the laziest players I saw all year. (IE D. Rose clone).
Fox  
DanMetroMan : 3/14/2017 12:38 pm : link
scares me a bit. Something very Brandon Jennings about him. Build, lack of touch on his shot. I haven't seen much of Smith yet and only youtube highlights of Frenchy (I would take Williams or Isaac over Frenchy)
RE: Good lucking finding another coach to hire if Phil is just going to  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/14/2017 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13392599 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
undermine everyone he hires.

Getting sick of this guy's act.


Not really. NBA jobs are scarce and there are plenty of guys who will run the triangle for an opportunity to be a head coach. Freakin' Mike Woodson said that he told Phil to teach him the triangle... keeping the job was far more important than any offensive philosophy.

Hornacek hasn't done literally one thing to show he deserves to keep his job. However, he's dealing with a locker room that has too many egotistical past their prime guys. I would give him a chance with a young team centered around KP, Willy, and the lottery pick.
I would take Smith.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/14/2017 12:44 pm : link
His style of play can make KP and Willy better. But I'm a huge Fox fan and would be very happy with him too.
Not  
DanMetroMan : 3/14/2017 12:47 pm : link
that I'm expecting the Knicks to be good next season but Frenchy strikes me as a project that doesn't have enough upside to be worth the wait. If you are going to take a euro "project" the upside better be immense. Not sure I see it with him. Looks like he could be a very strong defensive player but overall seems like a sum of parts guy not worth gambling on.
Just  
DanMetroMan : 3/14/2017 12:48 pm : link
saw this new piece on Frenchy, still feel the same way. Pass.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Not  
TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 12:52 pm : link
In comment 13392751 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
that I'm expecting the Knicks to be good next season but Frenchy strikes me as a project that doesn't have enough upside to be worth the wait. If you are going to take a euro "project" the upside better be immense. Not sure I see it with him. Looks like he could be a very strong defensive player but overall seems like a sum of parts guy not worth gambling on.


Not trying to be a youtube scout, but he doesn't look explosive to me. I know he's big and long, but he just doesn't jump off the screen with quickness or explosiveness.
RE: RE: the Knicks almost landed Rubio  
Jon in NYC : 3/14/2017 12:55 pm : link
In comment 13392572 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
In comment 13392551 djm said:


Quote:


but in the end did what's prudent and didn't part with extra assets. The deal fell through. I fully expect Rubio to embark on a HOF career from here on out.



Wasn't the problem the Knicks were asking for extra assets and when they finally said they'd just do it straight up, the Wolves bailed?


This is correct
This late tank is  
Jon in NYC : 3/14/2017 12:58 pm : link
awesome. It gives us a real shot at Lonzo, who is the guy I want.
Record  
TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 1:15 pm : link
If the Knicks win 3 more games they will finish 29-53. That will put Phil Jackson's record at 78-168 over 3 seasons. Is he really surviving that?
RE: Record  
Jon in NYC : 3/14/2017 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13392797 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
If the Knicks win 3 more games they will finish 29-53. That will put Phil Jackson's record at 78-168 over 3 seasons. Is he really surviving that?


Most would not. But Phil is Phil.
RE: This late tank is  
Sgrcts : 3/14/2017 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13392769 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
awesome. It gives us a real shot at Lonzo, who is the guy I want.


Lonzo to me has a big bust potential. He reminds me of Dangeo Russell in the sense that he's not that athletic so how will a lot of the things he does well translate to the NBA? His shot is really bizarre, and his handle is too. Really, as loaded as this draft is to me all the prospects have really major question marks, I wouldn't be surprised if any of them were busts relative to expectations. Fultz seems to be the cleanest, but can he play defense?


MASSIVE disclaimer- I watch no college hoops so this is just from watching clips online and reading reports.
I actually think  
Jon in NYC : 3/14/2017 1:30 pm : link
Lonzo has pretty low bust potential based on his BBIQ and shooting ability.

The difference between he and Russell, is that D'Angelo is a complete doofus.
My updated top  
DanMetroMan : 3/14/2017 1:30 pm : link
1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Smith
5. Tatum
6. Fox
7. Markkanen
8. Williams
9. Isaac
10. Monk
11. Hartenstein
12. Frenchy
RE: My updated top  
Jon in NYC : 3/14/2017 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13392818 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Smith
5. Tatum
6. Fox
7. Markkanen
8. Williams
9. Isaac
10. Monk
11. Hartenstein
12. Frenchy


That looks about right, at least for the Knicks. Don't think Isaac is a great fit here. Need a lead guard.
RE: RE: This late tank is  
giantsfan44ab : 3/14/2017 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13392807 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
In comment 13392769 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


awesome. It gives us a real shot at Lonzo, who is the guy I want.



Lonzo to me has a big bust potential. He reminds me of Dangeo Russell in the sense that he's not that athletic so how will a lot of the things he does well translate to the NBA? His shot is really bizarre, and his handle is too. Really, as loaded as this draft is to me all the prospects have really major question marks, I wouldn't be surprised if any of them were busts relative to expectations. Fultz seems to be the cleanest, but can he play defense?


MASSIVE disclaimer- I watch no college hoops so this is just from watching clips online and reading reports.


I'd say he's more athletic than Russell. Russell is one of the least explosive guards (he makes up a lot with an advanced handle/ability to shift directions quickly). Ball may not be elite but I think he's at least average. He can get up quickly.

I'd still lean Fultz with the #1 but Ball is easily in the discussion for #2. Josh Jackson is probably my favorite prospect in the draft and I'd lean that way but Ball is probably the consensus 2.
Ball  
TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 1:33 pm : link
Ball helped UCLA go from a 15 win team to 29-4 this season. I also don't understand why everyone kills his shot. It doesn't look conventional but its highly effective. The knock on him can be his lack of 1 on 1 offense but he's such a well rounded player and is very unselfish.
RE: RE: My updated top  
DanMetroMan : 3/14/2017 1:35 pm : link
In comment 13392819 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13392818 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Smith
5. Tatum
6. Fox
7. Markkanen
8. Williams
9. Isaac
10. Monk
11. Hartenstein
12. Frenchy



That looks about right, at least for the Knicks. Don't think Isaac is a great fit here. Need a lead guard.


I know you like Frenchy but to me if one of the "big 4" isn't there I'm not taking a PG. Obviously it would be great to come away with one but I'd hate to reach and as I said I don't think the ceiling merits the risk. Markkanen isn't a great fit for us either but I'd hate to pass on a superior talent for "need". We need talent...everywhere basically.
Not at all  
giantsfan44ab : 3/14/2017 1:36 pm : link
condoning Lavar Ball's statements saying Ball is better than Curry, but Ball has taken (and made) shots in college only curry could get away with. Not at all worried about his form. Offensively, he might be better than Steph as a pure point due to his size/vision.

His defense would be the biggest concern for me. I think he can be a 20-10-5 guy by year 3 in the league easy.
Williams  
DanMetroMan : 3/14/2017 1:40 pm : link
is very intriguing with 8.2 boards, 2.5 blocks in 26 minutes per game. Would move Willy to the bench however.
RE: Ball  
Sgrcts : 3/14/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13392826 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Ball helped UCLA go from a 15 win team to 29-4 this season. I also don't understand why everyone kills his shot. It doesn't look conventional but its highly effective. The knock on him can be his lack of 1 on 1 offense but he's such a well rounded player and is very unselfish.


The hitch in it makes you wonder if he can get it off vs bigger more athletic defenders. Can he get that off vs Wall or Kawhi?
Again though  
Sgrcts : 3/14/2017 1:42 pm : link
I really know nothing about college hoops so I'm just speculating.
I'd take Williams  
giantsfan44ab : 3/14/2017 1:42 pm : link
over Fox. Just personal preference. Williams is raw but it's hard to see how he would have a low floor. He's not the most polished defender but 18 year old centers don't have the fundamental understanding of verticality he does. You get any half-decent PnR PG and he's a double double machine the day he steps foot in the league. He's also playing PF, you get him spacing and he could be a force on the offensive glass and sealing small guys on switches. Draft net says he can add 25 pounds with his frame without sacrificing any athleticism. He also has a workable jumper. He takes 3s (doesn't make them) but shows he's comfortable enough with his shot.
If Minnesota calls on draft night  
giantsfan44ab : 3/14/2017 1:44 pm : link
and offers you Zach Lavine for the Knicks pick, would you do it?

What if they threw in Dunn as well?
RE: If Minnesota calls on draft night  
DanMetroMan : 3/14/2017 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13392846 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
and offers you Zach Lavine for the Knicks pick, would you do it?

What if they threw in Dunn as well?


Lavine AND Dunn? In a millisecond for me.
RE: Not at all  
MookGiants : 3/14/2017 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13392831 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
condoning Lavar Ball's statements saying Ball is better than Curry, but Ball has taken (and made) shots in college only curry could get away with. Not at all worried about his form. Offensively, he might be better than Steph as a pure point due to his size/vision.

His defense would be the biggest concern for me. I think he can be a 20-10-5 guy by year 3 in the league easy.


The hitch in his shot will absolutely make it more difficult for him to get off against NBA defenders. Curry gets his shot off so quickly that it's impossible to defend, Ball is the opposite.

I'd love to get him, but there's definitely things to worry about with him
RE: If Minnesota calls on draft night  
MookGiants : 3/14/2017 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13392846 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
and offers you Zach Lavine for the Knicks pick, would you do it?

What if they threw in Dunn as well?


No.
RE: I'd take Williams  
DanMetroMan : 3/14/2017 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13392845 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
over Fox. Just personal preference. Williams is raw but it's hard to see how he would have a low floor. He's not the most polished defender but 18 year old centers don't have the fundamental understanding of verticality he does. You get any half-decent PnR PG and he's a double double machine the day he steps foot in the league. He's also playing PF, you get him spacing and he could be a force on the offensive glass and sealing small guys on switches. Draft net says he can add 25 pounds with his frame without sacrificing any athleticism. He also has a workable jumper. He takes 3s (doesn't make them) but shows he's comfortable enough with his shot.


I'm not far off from agreeing Williams over Fox. I think Williams is going to have late helium and yes there are those who think he will eventually have 3 point range. I think he could be a Rasheed Wallace type. High IQ, high character. I'm becoming a big big fan.
I don't like  
MookGiants : 3/14/2017 1:54 pm : link
that Ball doesn't get to the free throw line, either.
RE: If Minnesota calls on draft night  
TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2017 2:03 pm : link
In comment 13392846 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
and offers you Zach Lavine for the Knicks pick, would you do it?

What if they threw in Dunn as well?


Where's the pick? 7th/8th overall is a big difference vs 2nd/3rd.

What if they get a top 2 pick. Would you trade it for Jimmy Butler?
I definitely do not  
Sgrcts : 3/14/2017 2:07 pm : link
want a 4 or 5. Waste of resource, unless its a massive talent difference. Like if we end up with the #1 pick next year and Deandre Ayton is still the consensus #1, sure. At the 7th pick in the draft, it makes no sense.
Ball isn't an explosive player, but he's definitely more athletic than  
Greg from LI : 3/14/2017 2:18 pm : link
Russell.
RE: RE: Not at all  
giantsfan44ab : 3/14/2017 2:20 pm : link
In comment 13392851 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 13392831 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


condoning Lavar Ball's statements saying Ball is better than Curry, but Ball has taken (and made) shots in college only curry could get away with. Not at all worried about his form. Offensively, he might be better than Steph as a pure point due to his size/vision.

His defense would be the biggest concern for me. I think he can be a 20-10-5 guy by year 3 in the league easy.



The hitch in his shot will absolutely make it more difficult for him to get off against NBA defenders. Curry gets his shot off so quickly that it's impossible to defend, Ball is the opposite.

I'd love to get him, but there's definitely things to worry about with him


But at the same time he is 6'6", so you have to consider that the average height of the player guarding him will probably be like 6'3".
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