NFT: Knicks/ NBA Talk 3/14

Kings for taking. Exactly the type of way to think. No, he isn't Booker or Turner, but if you let scouts/Jay Bilas draft for the Kings they would've taken Mudiay, Johnson or Winslow. Yet they took a guy who played the same position as their best player.

He's shown some promise since the Cousins trade. He's averaging 14 ppg, albeit on mediocre shooting (48%) but he's been taking tons of jump shots since then. Which is something you'd want to experiment with when you're tanking. You get him a proper PnR PG to maximize his offensive game and he's more than a fine player on offense and a stud defender. He'll probably never be a good rebounder, but I still take him over the next 4 guys that were drafted after (Mudiay, Kaminsky, Winslow, and Johnson) and two of the guys taken ahead of him (Okafor and Hezonja). I'd give a slight edge to Russell, but not much.

So even though he's not Turner things could've been much worse for SAC.

Rip big guy

In comment 13393204 Deej said:

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I do agree with the premise. Phil needs to coach or quit (only thing I can think of is him running practice and coaching home, BK, and Philly games). Seems pretty unlikely to happen, so he should quit. But he wont.

Phil will never coach this team. He wouldn't if he was healthy and he certainly won't now. Nor should he. What is the great Phil Jackson going to do with this team as a coach? Absolutely nothing. I don't see Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol, and others walking through the door.

I can't take away any of Phil's achievements or pedigree...but his crowing achievement was being able to surround himself with multiple HOF players on each of his teams. Pretty easy to win that way. No matter what offensive system you implement.

after getting blown out by the Nets. Wouldn't make sense otherwise.

So glad Melo is carrying us to another pointless victory. What a hero.

They'll probably win 2 or 3 more home games and go winless on the road.

Nice game for Willy so far... 13 points, 14 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals, 1 block

Magic gets it. Phil still wants to play and win games. Magic sees the forest through the trees and "let's the kids play."

This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.

and Rose. That's part of the reason why they're horrendous.

In comment 13393434 PhiPsi125 said:

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Magic gets it. Phil still wants to play and win games. Magic sees the forest through the trees and "let's the kids play." This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.

It's not Magic. They started off 10-10. Then they stopped giving Randle minutes at center. And then they started experimenting with Ingram at PG.

In comment 13393434 PhiPsi125 said:

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Magic gets it. Phil still wants to play and win games. Magic sees the forest through the trees and "let's the kids play." This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game.

and what player do the lakera have remotely close to melo or rose?

is russell still playing? randle? their best players are still playing..

also another thing you seem to not take into consideration, the lakers lose their pick if it is outside top 3 so they have to lose

Terrific game for Willy.

NO is about to win back to back for the first time. There is no possible way the Knicks sustain being as bad as the Kings. Just isn't going to happen.

In comment 13393445 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13393434 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: Magic gets it. Phil still wants to play and win games. Magic sees the forest through the trees and "let's the kids play." This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game. and what player do the lakera have remotely close to melo or rose? is russell still playing? randle? their best players are still playing.. also another thing you seem to not take into consideration, the lakers lose their pick if it is outside top 3 so they have to lose

What's your point? Who cares if they don't have anyone as good as Melo or Rose? He's still scratching quality player(s) that would help them lose while seeing what they have in other players.

I wasn't aware of their pick situation (which makes sense) but I'm not understanding why this seems to bother some of you.

..

Celtics take Fultz.

Ball to LA.

Jackson fits perfectly at the 3 for PHO.

Orlando finally gets a PG it likes in Smith.

Tatum continues his hot streak into the tourney, Vivek falls in love.

Philly adds its shooter in Monk.

NY gets Isaac, another polarizing prospect, and will get picked apart just like they did for taking KP.

In comment 13393458 nygiants16 said:

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..

Mozgov...healthy scratch for the remainder of the season.

In comment 13393465 PhiPsi125 said:

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In comment 13393458 nygiants16 said: Quote: .. Mozgov...healthy scratch for the remainder of the season.

he hasnt been in the rotation since christmas, it is not something magic did, he hasnt been playing anyway

In comment 13393455 PhiPsi125 said:

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In comment 13393445 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13393434 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: Magic gets it. Phil still wants to play and win games. Magic sees the forest through the trees and "let's the kids play." This really doesn't need to be so difficult. But sure, keep playing Melo and Rose for 40 minutes a game. and what player do the lakera have remotely close to melo or rose? is russell still playing? randle? their best players are still playing.. also another thing you seem to not take into consideration, the lakers lose their pick if it is outside top 3 so they have to lose What's your point? Who cares if they don't have anyone as good as Melo or Rose? He's still scratching quality player(s) that would help them lose while seeing what they have in other players. I wasn't aware of their pick situation (which makes sense) but I'm not understanding why this seems to bother some of you.

Who are these "quality" players on the Lakers? Deng? Ingram is better than Deng at this point. Mozgov? Mozgov is the 5th best big man in LA.

Nick Young? Seriously?

The only veteran they scratched was Lou Williams and that was a decision made long before Magic was hired.

The Lakers aren't going to lose any more games than they were going to anyways.

publicly state that they are going to sit players to "see what they have" very often. And it's a philosophy that we should be adopting for many reasons. That's all.

I'm just fucking tired of Carmelo Anthony. Is this what he wants his career to be? The highlight these days is hitting a couple of clutch shots here and there on a garbage team playing meaningless games. Go challenge yourself a little on a good team, instead of holding us hostage.

Stupid Knicks!

your old vets for with 15 games left?

In comment 13393333 PhiPsi125 said:

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In comment 13393204 Deej said: Quote: I do agree with the premise. Phil needs to coach or quit (only thing I can think of is him running practice and coaching home, BK, and Philly games). Seems pretty unlikely to happen, so he should quit. But he wont. Phil will never coach this team. He wouldn't if he was healthy and he certainly won't now. Nor should he. What is the great Phil Jackson going to do with this team as a coach? Absolutely nothing. I don't see Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol, and others walking through the door. I can't take away any of Phil's achievements or pedigree...but his crowing achievement was being able to surround himself with multiple HOF players on each of his teams. Pretty easy to win that way. No matter what offensive system you implement.

My point was that if he is going to insist on the triangle, he really needs to be the coach. Because only he and Rambis are committed to it in the NBA, and Rambis cannot be the coach.

My preference is that we stop with this triangle BS. We have two PnR/PnP bigs. Go get a pick and __ PG and you have an offense.

To run the team as he sees fit.

I don't even see how you can evaluate hornacek as a coach in such a toxic environment as MSG. Does anyone think Hornacek actually has control here? That he would have been okay with Rose just disappearing and then getting to start again when he shows up? Or that he's not fed up with the lazy defense and constant defensive switching that have infected this team since long before he got this job?

This is why I wanted them to trade Melo- regardless of what they got back. Just since the deadline, he's been instrumental in 3 wins. I'm sure he'll have a couple more before the season is over. Those 4-5 additional wins drastically changes your draft position and is very very valuable. You wouldn't have received value for Melo directly but improving your draft position could deliver it.

So freaking frustrating watching him carry us to a couple of meaningless wins as we play out the string of another lost season. He played 41 minutes last night - that number should be no higher than 30. Rose shouldn't be out there either.

This is what happens when you have a bunch of people with their own self interests at stake - I'm sure Hornanek wants as many wins as possible for his next job interview. Melo wants his stats, Rose wants a big contract this summer, Phil wants to gratify his own ego with this triangle bullshit. Anyone looking out for the best interests of the Knicks? Nope.

no player tanks. Period. No player on Philly all these years was tanking. Players play hard. They dont create bad game tape that will inhibit them in free agency.

You dont tank by having your players play worse than they should. You tank by sitting guys out, spreading minutes around, and being committed to developing players over putting the best lineup out there.

since like December. They're not as good as Dallas (if Dirk plays), MIN (ironically a good team without Lavine. Or not), and probably NO. But they're also not going to be as bad as a Collison-led Kings, a treanwreck team that is the magic, or an Embiid-less Sixers squad (although saric has been keeping them fairly competitive).

I'm sure in the coming weeks fans will get what they want and see Melo/Rose benched the last few games. I believe they've been resting Melo on back to backs as well.

This team lost 4 home games in a row (including the Lakers, Nuggets and a CP3-less Clippers team) and then beat the Spurs. They lose to the Nets and then beat the Pacers. Big whoop. If it was the other way around, people wouldn't complain as much.

I'm a Sam Hinkie fan boy. I advocate the tank. I trust the tank. But everyone one of us knew this team wouldn't be sniffing a top 5 pick (barring lottery odds). Anyone who thought so is just making a narrative to shit on the Knicks even more. Trust me. I do that probably more than anyone else.

Just buckle up tight. There really isn't much season left. There's march madness right now (if that's your thing) and then playoffs are in sniffing distance afterwards. There's really nothing to complain about one way or the other at this point. Save that energy for the whole YouTube-scout part of the season.

Dan Devine‏Verified account @YourManDevine 24m24 minutes ago
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Update @YahooBDL: The Lakers will now put Timofey Mozgov *and* Luol Deng on the shelf for the rest of the year. https://yhoo.it/2mKslwR

Type of player the Knicks should be avoiding. average starter who will be overpaid/30+ when they need him #Knicks
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13394173 DanMetroMan said:

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Dan Devine‏Verified account @YourManDevine 24m24 minutes ago More Update @YahooBDL: The Lakers will now put Timofey Mozgov *and* Luol Deng on the shelf for the rest of the year. https://yhoo.it/2mKslwR

Be careful, Dan. I said the same thing last night and people got their feathers all ruffled about it. Lord only knows why.

In comment 13394189 PhiPsi125 said:

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In comment 13394173 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Dan Devine‏Verified account @YourManDevine 24m24 minutes ago More Update @YahooBDL: The Lakers will now put Timofey Mozgov *and* Luol Deng on the shelf for the rest of the year. https://yhoo.it/2mKslwR Be careful, Dan. I said the same thing last night and people got their feathers all ruffled about it. Lord only knows why.

The only thing controversial/silly about the Lakers plan is their need to "announce" it. Play your better players far less, play your lesser players far more. It's not that difficult. Expecting Melo not to play like "regular" Melo is silly

I just don't know how Mozgov can be classified as a "better" player than zubac, black, Randle or Nance.

Same thing with Deng vs Ingram. Young is honestly the hilarious one.

The hilarity of the Lakers benching those guys comes from their contracts and expected desperation for signing Paul george in 2 years. They're are going to likely have to part with one of Clarkson, Russell or Randle, and possibly a pick to make requisite cap room to go after PG.

I'm asking Coach Jackson, I mean, uh, Hornacek, to cut his minutes. Rose, too. Looks like we'll wind up in the seven spot, which was the number I've had in mind for weeks, but it's not a lock. And it's not just about the draft either. Melo's an older player with an injury history. Keeping him healthy through the end of the season should be a priority, whether we're looking to keep him or deal him.

really going to be sick if we go chasing the Hill, Teague types. Even if we don't take a PG I still wouldn't do something like that.

statistically, Deng and Mozgov are not top 9 players on LA this season. I.e. it can be justified in basketball terms (winning and losing) to remove them from the rotation.

On the other hand, there is no non-tanking justification to sit Melo (unless you're making a point about him not taking to the coaching). Rose of course has only 2 UDFA rookies at PG competition. Just different.

In comment 13394214 DanMetroMan said:

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really going to be sick if we go chasing the Hill, Teague types. Even if we don't take a PG I still wouldn't do something like that.

I love the headline of that article you posted - something about our chances for Teague "slipping away," as if he's Steph Curry or Russell Westbrook. I'd be more concerned if our chances of landing him were improving.

Playing KOQ anything less than a consistent 25 minutes a night is more detrimental to winning than anything the lakers have done this entire season.

doesn't need to play 41 minutes. He plays 25-30 and people really raise their eyebrows? They value the triangle so highly why isn't it reasonable for Sasha to eat into Rose's 30+ per night?

In comment 13394218 bceagle05 said:

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In comment 13394214 DanMetroMan said: Quote: really going to be sick if we go chasing the Hill, Teague types. Even if we don't take a PG I still wouldn't do something like that. I love the headline of that article you posted - something about our chances for Teague "slipping away," as if he's Steph Curry or Russell Westbrook. I'd be more concerned if our chances of landing him were improving.

I'll be furious if we are the high bidders on Teague or Hill. Furious.

And KOQ *may* crack 12 minutes played. It's fucking hilarious.

In comment 13394222 DanMetroMan said:

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I'll be furious if we are the high bidders on Teague or Hill. Furious.

Get ready for it. I dont know why anyone is expecting a rebuild. Phil hasnt said it. Lets say they get a 2/3 prospect that they think is a huge steal -- most likely is Monk, Isaac, or Tatum. Melo balks at a trade. What makes anyone here confident that the Knicks dont say, fuck it, Noah/Willy-KP-Melo-rookie-Hill is a #4 seed with a developmental path as the 3 young players age? I think that is way more likely than the Knicks saying "fuck Melo, we're in The Process(R) and we're going to spend this season on development, and not maximize wins."

I'll buy the Knicks as a rebuilding team when I see it. We always push our chips to the middle of the table the first chance we get. We're chasing this middle tier of PGs.

It seems so obvious - take the best point guard or wing with your first round pick, deal Melo, and go with the youth movement. Keep Lee, Lance and Noah as the veteran leaders. If you take your lumps again next year, so be it. We'll be back in the top 10 of the draft to grab another stud prospect.

But I have no faith in the Knicks doing that - Deej's scenario sounds far more realistic, based on the evidence.

In comment 13394237 Deej said:

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In comment 13394222 DanMetroMan said: Quote: I'll be furious if we are the high bidders on Teague or Hill. Furious. Get ready for it. I dont know why anyone is expecting a rebuild. Phil hasnt said it. Lets say they get a 2/3 prospect that they think is a huge steal -- most likely is Monk, Isaac, or Tatum. Melo balks at a trade. What makes anyone here confident that the Knicks dont say, fuck it, Noah/Willy-KP-Melo-rookie-Hill is a #4 seed with a developmental path as the 3 young players age? I think that is way more likely than the Knicks saying "fuck Melo, we're in The Process(R) and we're going to spend this season on development, and not maximize wins." I'll buy the Knicks as a rebuilding team when I see it. We always push our chips to the middle of the table the first chance we get. We're chasing this middle tier of PGs.

And I'm sure some homers will defend it. I won't. The Knicks have to accept they aren't a very talented roster and likely need 2 good off-seasons to become one. Signing guys like Teague (30 in year 2 of a multi-year deal) or Hill (already turning 31 in May) would mean we outbid other teams for guys leaving their prime. Awful franchises do that. The 2017-2018 Knicks will still be nowhere near competing with the top teams with Jeff Teague and a rookie like Isaac or Tatum. Better? For sure. But the are about to win 30ish games, it would be tough not to be "better". This consistent argument on BBI that "being better" is some sort of victory is really perplexing. You really think Pistons fans (6 more wins), Indiana (7 more wins) are excited?

Pumped for next year and beyond? No, those are teams that have openly discussed blowing it up, rebuilding. What is the dream here? To be the Hawks and play a high level of ball but be limited by your talent level? Do we ignore Melo and Noah will be a year older?

to the point where I'd sign for Melo dealt for absolutely zero positive return (no added years of salary) if it meant the Knicks were signaling rebuild. That's how far I'm willing to go.

(not sure re Melo for zero). I just dont believe that Dolan thinks that way, and the few fans he interacts with are likely of the "I just want to see good basketball already" variety. Unless he really soured this season.

all these PGs will likely get 5 year max offers from their current teams. Teague, Holiday and Hill aren't guys who would neglect the extra pay bump and added year of financial security to come to the Knicks of all places.

We get top 10 picks because Phil's attempts at building a playoff team are such epic failures, and we avoid some bad free agent signings because guys don't want to come here anyway. Maybe he is just outsmarting everyone.

In comment 13394249 DanMetroMan said:

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to the point where I'd sign for Melo dealt for absolutely zero positive return (no added years of salary) if it meant the Knicks were signaling rebuild. That's how far I'm willing to go.

Would you be willing to buy him out/ waive him? Allows for a clean break.

I also can't believe all this triangle talk. It's like a bad dream. Rambis and Phil running triangle drills at practice today? The focus should be on building a positive culture and some pride on defense. Jackson has failed miserably at that. I have no idea why he should be entrusted with another offseason. He needs to go.

In comment 13394286 bceagle05 said:

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We get top 10 picks because Phil's attempts at building a playoff team are such epic failures, and we avoid some bad free agent signings because guys don't want to come here anyway. Maybe he is just outsmarting everyone.

Very funny but sadly also very true.