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O Line reconfiguration

Rjanyg : 3/14/2017 2:55 pm
Stuck at home in the snow storm and was just watching Big Blue Kick off from yesterday with Dottino and Meadow.

They talked with the SD reporter and he gave his thoughts on Fluker. He thought his best position would be RG. I personally think he will be our RT.

But with the resent signing of John Jerry I started thinking of different OL configurations.

Config #1. This is what I see as the best line up

Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Fluker

Config #2. This might be a better option

Pugh, Jerry, Richburg, Fluker, Flowers

Power on the right side, finesse on the left. Option #2 would uproot 3 players from last years position but might actually be a better combo of talent and position.

Otherwise you go with option #1 and plug Fluker in at RT and try to top it with adding a draft pick or 2.

Opinions?


They aren't  
GiantsRage2007 : 3/14/2017 2:57 pm : link
Moving Pugh

IMO
Pugh and Flowers  
B in ALB : 3/14/2017 3:00 pm : link
are not moving unless something drastic happens in camp.

I still think they'll look for another Tackle and leave Fluker inside. I doubt the plan is the pencil him in at Tackle despite the Jerry signing.
RE: They aren't  
the coffee man : 3/14/2017 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13392955 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Moving Pugh

IMO
You are right and its a terrible mistake that they wont. You cant win with two horrible tackles which is what the giants have right now. Jerry is ok as a pass blocker but also a horrid run blocker. 3/5ths of the line cant run block and Richburg struggles with big dudes.

The giants should call Cleveland and offer a 1st this year and a 2nd next year for Thomas from Cle.
Also  
the coffee man : 3/14/2017 3:01 pm : link
Fluker is a castaway from a team with a horrible o-line. Hes not a good player.

Pugh is good and Ruchburg is above average. Rest of guys basically stink.
doubt they move Pugh  
giants#1 : 3/14/2017 3:01 pm : link
So that leaves 4 players (Flowers/Jerry/Fluker/Hart) for 3 positions plus potentially a draft pick. You could argue that last year's starting 5 are the front runners at their respective positions, which means Fluker needs to come in and unseat one of them, likely Jerry or Hart. It'll be good to have some competition and hopefully we see dramatic improvement from a few of them.
RE: They aren't  
Tuckrule : 3/14/2017 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13392955 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Moving Pugh

IMO


You don't move a guard to tackle in his free agency year. You want him to get paid as a guard not a tackle. It's a financial decision more so than putting the best group out there imo
RE: RE: They aren't  
the coffee man : 3/14/2017 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13392989 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
In comment 13392955 GiantsRage2007 said:


Quote:


Moving Pugh

IMO



You don't move a guard to tackle in his free agency year. You want him to get paid as a guard not a tackle. It's a financial decision more so than putting the best group out there imo
The goal is to win a Super bowl not balance a checkbook. Move Pugh to LT, give Flowers a year breather, and re-evaluate. You certainly dont try to save money by trotting out a horrid player in Flowers.
My thoughts  
Bleedin Blue : 3/14/2017 3:27 pm : link
From left to right
Flowers
Pugh
Richburgh
Fluker
Draft pick

Jerry, Jones, Gettis are depth
Pugh is not playing LT  
tomjgiant : 3/14/2017 3:28 pm : link
for a reason.They moved him to guard from RT for a reason.You think changing positions for everyone is going to make it better but it won't.Keeping the guys who are playing well in their spots and upgrading the talent on the line istheway to go.
RJ, good thread  
idiotsavant : 3/14/2017 3:30 pm : link
#2 pending the draft at which time assume you may upgrade any of the interior line positions.

Pugh  
Giant John : 3/14/2017 3:33 pm : link
Does not have the body to play LT.. stop the stupidity!
Richburg  
Glover : 3/14/2017 3:35 pm : link
should be the only one on the line who is pretty much locked in. They should be considering every other possibility. Flowers to RT or G, Pugh to any position other than C, same goes for Fluker. If Hart or Jones can step up and win a job, thats great, if Jerry can get some lower body power, great. This should be the definition of open competition, starting in OTAs. No one but Richburg and Pugh have earned anything.
Same parts only exception flukes whom may not see rt if Hart steps up  
micky : 3/14/2017 3:35 pm : link
Looking at same results as last season..unless they wish fully thinking step up play..running is going to be hard again.
I think we're stuck with Flowers at LT unless we draft another in Rd.  
yatqb : 3/14/2017 3:42 pm : link
But perhaps we'll have a running game to slow the opposing pass rush down.
Hopefully Jerry and Fluker compete at RG  
est1986 : 3/14/2017 3:43 pm : link
And we draft a RT with a pick in rounds 1-3.
pugh and richburg are good players at the interior  
idiotsavant : 3/14/2017 3:44 pm : link
but not great.

and neither seems particularly suited for Mac/Packers ball.

there was a series where newhouse possibly subbed for an injured pugh, and the O clicked better, cleaner pocket for not very mobile manning. putting aside all the bells and whistles, they are not using those anyway.

richburg similar.

regarding 'ideal body type' at OLT, we tried that with flowers and he sucks.
Config #2  
Johnny5 : 3/14/2017 3:53 pm : link
Config #2 for me. But it will never happen.
What you can deduce from how they addressed  
RetroJint : 3/14/2017 3:57 pm : link
the o-line so far is this: Flowers is staying. It's possible they will sign or draft somebody who will compete with him for LOT. But that's where they see him. They're playing a 3 for 2 on the other side. They can count Hart & Fluker as tackles. The next guy signed or drafted projects port side in their deliberations . Flowers is not changing positions but he could end up on the bench .
I agree with Idiotsevant  
No Where Man : 3/14/2017 3:58 pm : link
Part of the problem is that not one of our OL is a dominant physical force at their present position. Flowers can be but not at LT, maybe at G or RT. Same with Fluker. All the rest are basically finesse players, and that'a why we are not a good running team and why we're horrible on short yardage situations.
Pugh only becomes LT  
Vanzetti : 3/14/2017 4:09 pm : link
if Flowers really sucks again. Doubt it happens in training camp unless there is an injury. Would only happen in regular season if Flowers regresses from last year.
RE: Pugh only becomes LT  
the coffee man : 3/14/2017 4:18 pm : link
In comment 13393070 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
if Flowers really sucks again. Doubt it happens in training camp unless there is an injury. Would only happen in regular season if Flowers regresses from last year.
True
I want Fluker at RG. Next to the weak Richburg.  
Victor in CT : 3/14/2017 4:42 pm : link
get push in the run game, give Eli a pocket to step into
RE: Pugh  
jvm52106 : 3/14/2017 4:43 pm : link
In comment 13393016 Giant John said:
Quote:
Does not have the body to play LT.. stop the stupidity!


He was drafted to play Tackle and moved to guard....
Why certain people  
UConn4523 : 3/14/2017 4:46 pm : link
are convinced they know more about Pugh playing LT than the coaches is beyond me. How can anyone say we'd better with Pugh at LT, because he played it in college an a little in practice?
Unless injuries force it - or we have a surprise purge of the coaches  
Bob in Newburgh : 3/14/2017 4:51 pm : link
Pugh is only looked at as an undiscovered Pro Bowl LT by posters on BBI. It should be rather obvious to any who have attempted a trip around the block that the given by the Giants organization is that Pugh is not an NFL LT.

Doing speculations on the future configuration of our o-line based on the signing of Fluker and re-signing of Jerry without accounting for the variable that is our draft is a stupid waste of time at this point.
'O Line reconfiguration'...  
Torrag : 3/14/2017 4:51 pm : link
There is no way to know how this will shake out. We clearly aren't done adding personnel. Hard to even make an educated guess given all the permutations available. The only guy with a cemented position is Richburg.

Flowers: LT/RT/RG
Pugh: LT/LG
Fluker:RT/RG/LG
Hart: RT/RG
RE: OL as I see it  
5BowlsSoon : 3/14/2017 4:54 pm : link
In comment 13393003 Bleedin Blue said:
Quote:
From left to right
Flowers
Pugh
Richburgh
Fluker
Draft pick

Jerry, Jones, Gettis are depth


This +1
RE: RE: OL as I see it  
GMen23 : 3/14/2017 5:23 pm : link
In comment 13393139 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 13393003 Bleedin Blue said:


Quote:


From left to right
Flowers
Pugh
Richburgh
Fluker
Draft pick

Jerry, Jones, Gettis are depth



This +1

This +2
Young and developing OL Talent  
Rafflee : 3/14/2017 5:39 pm : link
A Big step by Flowers would be the biggest improvement, but they are relatively young across the front. They won 11 games with young guys in down years with injuries...it's not the strongest argument, but They Can Hardly be Worse than they were in 2016!!!

They've added some "Help" in the form of depth, and edge blocking with the new Tight End. I'm pretty happy with what they've done to reinforce this group...they have a great opportunity to improve with the guys they have.

But with the resent signing of John Jerry I started thinking of differ  
madgiantscow009 : 3/14/2017 5:41 pm : link
Freudian slip?
Most likely Option 1 to start the season,  
Simms11 : 3/14/2017 5:43 pm : link
Unless they draft an OT or OG, then there will be competition for those two positions on the right side and anything is possible.
If Pugh was a LT  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/14/2017 5:45 pm : link
they wouldn't have drafted Flowers with a top ten pick.
RE: RE: RE: OL as I see it  
PatersonPlank : 3/14/2017 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13393189 GMen23 said:
Quote:
In comment 13393139 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 13393003 Bleedin Blue said:


Quote:


From left to right
Flowers
Pugh
Richburgh
Fluker
Draft pick

Jerry, Jones, Gettis are depth



This +1


This +2


+3. Pugh is going to be an All-Pro LG. Our line does not get better taking out an All-Pro Guard, replacing him with an average guard, and moving him to become an average LT.
RE: If Pugh was a LT  
the coffee man : 3/14/2017 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13393225 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
they wouldn't have drafted Flowers with a top ten pick.
Pugh is a better LT then flowers period. Thats all that matters.
RE: Unless injuries force it - or we have a surprise purge of the coaches  
Rjanyg : 3/14/2017 5:47 pm : link
In comment 13393131 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
Pugh is only looked at as an undiscovered Pro Bowl LT by posters on BBI. It should be rather obvious to any who have attempted a trip around the block that the given by the Giants organization is that Pugh is not an NFL LT.

Doing speculations on the future configuration of our o-line based on the signing of Fluker and re-signing of Jerry without accounting for the variable that is our draft is a stupid waste of time at this point.


The reason I offer Pugh as a candidate for LT is the fact everyone on BBI and planet earth keep crying about Flowers and how he sucks. As of right now if Flowers were to get hurt, who would step in at LT? Hart? Fluker? Jerry? No, it would be Pugh. So asking the thought of which line up could benefit the team with Pugh as an option for LT is not far fetched. He was a LT in college, he was drafted in the first round to play OT because of his feet. His short arms make him a better OG, I get it. Everyone crus about Flowers having poor technique and slow feet and that he would be a better guard. This would be our only option other than Flowers.
I don't think they're moving Pugh either...  
BillKo : 3/14/2017 6:01 pm : link
but shit happens.

A history lesson will provide you that that three of the four Giant SBs featured either David Diehl and Brad Benson as left tackles.

Neither were prototype left tackles, but both battled and made it work. And however the got there (under-performing taemmates, injuries, etc), it's not outlandish to see Pugh move there depending how how things develop this August.

RE: RE: RE: RE: OL as I see it  
Rjanyg : 3/14/2017 6:24 pm : link
In comment 13393228 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 13393189 GMen23 said:


Quote:


In comment 13393139 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 13393003 Bleedin Blue said:


Quote:


From left to right
Flowers
Pugh
Richburgh
Fluker
Draft pick

Jerry, Jones, Gettis are depth



This +1


This +2



+3. Pugh is going to be an All-Pro LG. Our line does not get better taking out an All-Pro Guard, replacing him with an average guard, and moving him to become an average LT.


I like Pugh and think he's a very good OL. If he is an all pro OG I wonder why NYG hasn't extended him yet?
I've stated this before on other threads regarding the O line  
joeinpa : 3/14/2017 6:28 pm : link
If you have two 1's and a 2 starting on that line, and you still stink, it wasn't because you didn't expend resources trying to build that line.

I don't see how the Giants could do much more than hope these guys develop. There are not a lot of answers out there for this position this year.
RE: I've stated this before on other threads regarding the O line  
drkenneth : 3/14/2017 6:40 pm : link
In comment 13393254 joeinpa said:
Quote:
If you have two 1's and a 2 starting on that line, and you still stink, it wasn't because you didn't expend resources trying to build that line.

I don't see how the Giants could do much more than hope these guys develop. There are not a lot of answers out there for this position this year.


With Fluker, you would have THREE #1s, a #2, & a 7th (I think:

FLowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Hart
I've said as much as well  
UConn4523 : 3/14/2017 6:42 pm : link
I don't mind taking another O lineman high but sooner or later these guys need to make it work. We can't bypass impact players at other positions because these investments aren't working. The coaches and players need to figured it out.
RE: I've said as much as well  
drkenneth : 3/14/2017 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13393261 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I don't mind taking another O lineman high but sooner or later these guys need to make it work. We can't bypass impact players at other positions because these investments aren't working. The coaches and players need to figured it out.


Yup. It's not popular on BBI, but at some point coaches need to coach better and players need to play better. This is a young group.

The idea that somehow the organization "refuses" to "fix" the OL is silly.
I think the O Line apocalypse  
adamg : 3/14/2017 7:00 pm : link
is overblown. I agree with the Dr. Ken and UConn as well.

Yeah, our line isn't the best, but it's sufficient. Our lack of spending resources may better explain our O deficiencies in terms of the lack of investment at TE and RB and the subsequent lack of production from those positions. We're fielding mid tier FAs and mid to late round picks or UDFAs at those positions. Odell alone does so much for this offense, if we had another guy who scared defenses, the whole OL issue may go away.

I think we don't realize the impact having mediocre talent at TE and RB had on our offense last year. Vereen is a player, despite the hate he gets. He'll make a big difference if he stays on the field. Still, McCaffrey or Njoku also would be huge impact players for our O production. Potentially more so than bringing in Whitworth would have.

Not to mention, our line moved on from starting Newhouse last year, but the line was mostly the same as in 15. That team had a top 10 offense. You can say it was because Eli was slinging the ball, playing from behind with that terrible D unit, but they can score with this line. It's not unfathomable.
it always seems strange to me when people say  
idiotsavant : 3/14/2017 7:48 pm : link
'we have tried this and that, so leave it alone'

when what they really mean is

'I want to go back to mock drafting linebackers and wide outs'
I think Fluker is gonna kick ass as the RT  
Rjanyg : 3/14/2017 7:57 pm : link
I feel an O Line of Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Fluker
Will be solid with Perkins at RB, and Ellison at FB, OBJ, Marshall, Shep and Njoku as the Rookie TE. Lots of targets, ability to run and hopefully a more balanced attack with a top 10 defense.
think drkenneth's  
bc4life : 3/14/2017 8:10 pm : link
configuration is most likely

Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Fluker, Hart.


It'd be interesting to find out what the OL are doing this offseason
Fluker wasn't the Chargers worst o-lineman. He gave them the  
Ivan15 : 3/14/2017 8:46 pm : link
Biggest cap room.

He was a RT starter for 2 years, and RG for 2 more. He will battle Hart for RT in the preseason and the loser will push Jerry throughout the season.

They need to create real competition for LT. Pugh, another vet or even a draft pick. Gotta mak Flowers extend himself.
How about..  
Upstate Joe : 3/14/2017 8:52 pm : link
Ramczyk - Pugh - Richburg - Flowers - Fluker

Any realistic chance of this happening? Maybe switch flowers and Fluker? Would have to count on Ramczyk lasting to #23 and the medicals holding up

If they are truly willing to maximize Eli's window (as the Marshall signing could indicate) then I think Reese has to go OL in round one. Wait until rounds 2 and 3 for the DT and edge guys.
RE: RE: They aren't  
eric2425ny : 3/14/2017 9:01 pm : link
In comment 13392963 the coffee man said:
Quote:
In comment 13392955 GiantsRage2007 said:


Quote:


Moving Pugh

IMO

You are right and its a terrible mistake that they wont. You cant win with two horrible tackles which is what the giants have right now. Jerry is ok as a pass blocker but also a horrid run blocker. 3/5ths of the line cant run block and Richburg struggles with big dudes.

The giants should call Cleveland and offer a 1st this year and a 2nd next year for Thomas from Cle.


I think they might have taken less than that last year, however, with the cash they have spent to resign Bitonio, and sign Tretter and especially Zeitler, you have to think they are keeping Thomas. If they draft a RT that is halfway decent they will be right up there with the Cowboys in regard to offensive line talent.
RE: My thoughts  
section125 : 3/14/2017 9:13 pm : link
In comment 13393003 Bleedin Blue said:
Quote:
From left to right
Flowers
Pugh
Richburgh
Fluker
Draft pick

Jerry, Jones, Gettis are depth


Hart beats out Gettis and Jones.

So:
Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Fluker is more likely w/

Hart, Jones, ????????
Way Early  
Percy : 3/14/2017 10:52 pm : link
But I think Fluker is starting at RT.
Find a LT  
George from PA : 3/14/2017 11:32 pm : link
Get a LT.....And if it pans out

X-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Flower...

Turns a negative to a major positive.

If for some reason they still feel Flower can play LT....

Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker....Is very risky



Like it or not  
Carson53 : 3/15/2017 9:02 am : link
John Jerry is going to be a starter, you don't give 3 year
deals to a player to be a backup. This is especially true
when you re-sign one of your own players.
The line is not going to look much different, hope for improvement with this group.
Fluker says  
pjcas18 : 3/15/2017 9:07 am : link
he was brought here to play RG. If true, why pay Jerry that much? Unless they strictly view Fluker as backup/depth/insurance for Jerry/Hart/draft pick

Quote:
Big Blue United
5 mins

#Giants OL DJ Fluker: "I was brought into New York as a right guard, but I'm willing to play anywhere on the line if they need it"

DJ Fluker just told Giants fans the plan for him. Fluker will compete with Jerry at RG.
.  
pjcas18 : 3/15/2017 9:11 am : link
Quote:
Ralph Vacchiano‏Verified account @RVacchianoSNY 12m12 minutes ago

Ralph Vacchiano Retweeted SiriusXM NFL Radio

Interesting. Then the Giants re-signed RG John Jerry. So perhaps they're still looking for a right tackle? ...
RE: think drkenneth's  
drkenneth : 3/15/2017 10:17 am : link
In comment 13393328 bc4life said:
Quote:
configuration is most likely

Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Fluker, Hart.


It'd be interesting to find out what the OL are doing this offseason


We know what Jerry is at this point- He's an average at best OL. As noted, Fluker will compete with him at RG (and I expect him to win the battle)....

Hart stays at RT unless they draft someone who win the RT battle. Hart is young, big, played at a big program. I can't see them benching him for Fluker. Fluker may be best at RG.

Draft an OT, let the chips fall.
I think it's probably a stretch  
Cenotaph : 3/15/2017 10:38 am : link
to count on a draft pick to start at RT, especially day one. I think Flowers gets another shot to start the season. If he really struggles, possible they consider moving Pugh out, but this is really a last resort move. Pugh was solid at RT, but not nearly as good as he's been at LG - and possibly not a huge improvement over Flowers at LT. So we'd get a small boost at LT and a big drop at LG.

It's going to be a pretty open competition I think. Pugh/Richburg are guaranteed to start, Flowers is likely, the rest will see who shakes out. RG is likely Jerry, maybe Fluker pushes him out. I think Hart/draft pick may compete at RT, even Fluker, but I'd guess the draft pick starts the season on bench. It's not a strong class at OL, and we aren't picking very high in Rd 1. Because the class isn't highly rated, we may have a shot at one of (or the) top rated OL, but I haven't seen anyone scouted as a day 1 plug and play OT so far.

My Guess - Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Hart to begin season, Hart gives way to draft pick if he isn't up to RT after a few games. Really hoping Flowers can at least step up to average LT - that would give us as good LT play as if we signed an FA making $9-10M/yr this offseason. Is that likely, maybe not - but this is a young guy in 3rd year, we've certainly seen guys develop after a few years before, especially at OL/LT (which has a learning curve in NFL).
They are not  
burtmanjack : 3/15/2017 11:48 am : link
moving Pugh to LT. For one thing, I doubt they think it makes football sense. But even if they saw it as a plausible scenario, it clearly is not a slam dunk, and they will therefore not move him to LT -- a more expensive position -- in his contract year.
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