If they want to try and get Hankins back or sign a good kicker, then they need to start cutting or restructuring people. And if a JPP deal is coming it needs to come soon.
And they still need a backup QB, kicker and the rookie draft pool. Thomas will have to go. Harris probably also. But if they can't sign JPP to a long-term deal I don't see where they get the money to sign Hankins or Robinson, or replacements for them.
And they still need a backup QB, kicker and the rookie draft pool. Thomas will have to go. Harris probably also. But if they can't sign JPP to a long-term deal I don't see where they get the money to sign Hankins or Robinson, or replacements for them.
They will get Robinson's $ by cutting Thomas. They can find money for Hankins by restructuring other deals; of course getting the long term deal done with JPP would help this cause significantly as well.
pulling the JPP tag is the only way to get big cap relief.
And they still need a backup QB, kicker and the rookie draft pool. Thomas will have to go. Harris probably also. But if they can't sign JPP to a long-term deal I don't see where they get the money to sign Hankins or Robinson, or replacements for them.
They can pretty easily redo Vernon's deal. It essentially had a break at the end of the second year, they may feel that he's shown enough to warrant the removal of that break allowing them to prorate more of the deal. It's not going to net masses of space for a splurge unless they do Snacks or Eli as well (both of which are more risky from an age pov)
only saves you about a little over 4M.....but then you have to replace them with bodies, and those bodies subtract from that 4M....
BBI had this fantasy, that we had all this cap space....many still want to mortgage the future to sign guys....
Fact is, we didn't have the money, and this was a lousy free agency year.....and now we have to restructure, someone, just to have some cap space, to make minimal moves during the season.....we had about 10M last year....we basically have nothing right now....
Reese has to hit several homeruns in the draft....
only saves you about a little over 4M.....but then you have to replace them with bodies, and those bodies subtract from that 4M....
BBI had this fantasy, that we had all this cap space....many still want to mortgage the future to sign guys....
Fact is, we didn't have the money, and this was a lousy free agency year.....and now we have to restructure, someone, just to have some cap space, to make minimal moves during the season.....we had about 10M last year....we basically have nothing right now....
Reese has to hit several homeruns in the draft....
Normally I would agree. But with Eli's age I would mortgage the future. I think JPP gets a longterm deal at some point which will free up space. But that space will be used for the next few years when we beging extending the likes of Pugh and ODB. Really the Marshall signing was a homerun in terms of the contract.
1. BBI values Hankins a lot more then the Giants or anyone else in the league do
2. JT Thomas probably cannot pass a physical yet which is why he is still here
3. Reese needs to make JPP his truly best offer. Structure the deal so his cap hit this year is minimal with guaranteed dollars in the form of guaranteed roster bonus/salary in 2018/2019
4. The Giants will sign a decent kicker. Kickers are always available.
5. Do not be shocked to see Eli adjust his contract
only saves you about a little over 4M.....but then you have to replace them with bodies, and those bodies subtract from that 4M....
BBI had this fantasy, that we had all this cap space....many still want to mortgage the future to sign guys....
Fact is, we didn't have the money, and this was a lousy free agency year.....and now we have to restructure, someone, just to have some cap space, to make minimal moves during the season.....we had about 10M last year....we basically have nothing right now....
Reese has to hit several homeruns in the draft....
Normally I would agree. But with Eli's age I would mortgage the future. I think JPP gets a longterm deal at some point which will free up space. But that space will be used for the next few years when we beging extending the likes of Pugh and ODB. Really the Marshall signing was a homerun in terms of the contract.
There was money this year too..Brandon Marshal signed. JPP has $17 Million attached to him. Jerry Signed, Fluker signed, etc. There was money. Not the money we had last year but there was money.
only saves you about a little over 4M.....but then you have to replace them with bodies, and those bodies subtract from that 4M....
BBI had this fantasy, that we had all this cap space....many still want to mortgage the future to sign guys....
Fact is, we didn't have the money, and this was a lousy free agency year.....and now we have to restructure, someone, just to have some cap space, to make minimal moves during the season.....we had about 10M last year....we basically have nothing right now....
Reese has to hit several homeruns in the draft....
Normally I would agree. But with Eli's age I would mortgage the future. I think JPP gets a longterm deal at some point which will free up space. But that space will be used for the next few years when we beging extending the likes of Pugh and ODB. Really the Marshall signing was a homerun in terms of the contract.
There was money this year too..Brandon Marshal signed. JPP has $17 Million attached to him. Jerry Signed, Fluker signed, etc. There was money. Not the money we had last year but there was money.
saves like $3M, can easily replace him for that or less with an FA, and certainly less if they go draft pick. Harris would save a bit more, and it seems he already lost some of his return jobs and isn't much of a contributor on O - he can be replaced through draft or WR's currently on roster (I'd guess a later round draft pick at WR).
JPP's tag is eating up a lot fo cap, yes - but if they needed it, the Giants have several easy cuts and a few ways they can re-structure deals to give some relief. As others mentioned, even a long term deal with JPP won't give a ton of cap relief - I'd guess they plan on plunging big $ into 3 DL spots, but not 4 so Hankins probably gone (outside a short/cheap deal) - he is most likely replaced through draft, as they likely won't pay big $ for a FA DT (the market has been soft so anything still possible, and it's supposed to be a solid DL draft). They can make some room, but won't have $ for any big deals after last year's splurge.
This team seems to have most of the big pieces (solid QB, playmaking WR, good rush ends and run stuffing DT, lock down CB and playmaking SS) - they need to fill out the depth and hope they can cobble together a decent OL. Based on where the talent supposedly is in this draft, and how the FA market went, I like what they did with limited funds in FA this year. Hopefully can add a RB/TE and DT from the draft early, competition at OL and depth at LB/DB/WR. Maybe OL/TE/DT over 1st 3 rounds, RB later since supposedly deep, and fill out depth in D and maybe a WR late.
extend him and this year is probably around 2-3mil CAP hit. Give him a 5yr deal with an avg of 8 mil/yr should get it done for both sides.
8 mil/yr? Pugh will laugh at that. For everyone clamoring to extend Pugh, you will be shocked what he'll be looking for. Some 6th round pick for the Chiefs eclipsed $8 mil/yr in a recent extension. With Zietler setting the ceiling, Pugh will be looking closer to what Zietler got than some 6th round pick. People who don't like throwing that kind of money to a player who only played a 16 game season once (his rookie year) should be advocating drafting his replacement this year.
Where you were drafted doesn't matter once you are in the NFL
The 6th round draft pick has out performed the Giants 1st round pick.
I agree, if Pugh waits it out til next year, he probably gets more than Zeiter. Because when he has played he has shown that he can be very good. But what if he gets hurt again. 1yr deal for him. Big risk. It would be a hard choice but I'd probably take the long term deal for a little less money and know my future is secure. But thats just me.
I wonder how secure Jonathan Casillas is if Robinson returns.
Outside of maybe Thomas if they resign Robinson. What's the point of cutting players you want to keep to sign other players you want. That's just treading water. They have a number of players they can restructure to make cap room when and if they need it.
So signing free agents for the vet minimum going forward isn't going to put much of a dent in the overall salary cap and the rookies won't count against the cap until they are signed in July. By then the Giants will have signed JPP to a long term deal and J.T. Thomas and Dwayne Harris will have been released.
A simplistic version of JPP's deal might be...
5 years $72.5M total with a $30M signing bonus and $1M (guaranteed) salary in 2017 and $4M (guaranteed) salary in 2018. Total guaranteed money is $35M.
His 2017 cap hit would be $7M, his 2018 cap hit would be $10M.
JPP is not going to get less guaranteed money on a yearly basis than Vernon. Vernon's contract is 40M guaranteed on 5 years - his additional 12M does not kick in until 2018. That equates to 8M before 2018 and avg of 10.5 if all.
JPP is not going to settle for a 5 year deal with less than Vernon guaranteed money. Feed the ego.
Higher signing bonus and most guaranteed money per year avg.
24-28M SB and 44M total guarantee on 4 years. You want to give 5 years do a 3rd year option for 11M guaranteed to get him highest paid
Re Pugh and a contract. Zeitlers contract is 5-60 12M SB and 31.5 guar. Look at the details - 28M is guaranteed in 2017 & 2018. YOu can easily do a similar deal with Pugh, giving him a higher signing bonus and guarantee money over 3 years and still save cap space
JPP is not going to get less guaranteed money on a yearly basis than Vernon.
Sure he is. Vernon got $52.5M guaranteed and $85M total over 5 years. JPP won't come within $10M of that when it comes to the guaranteed portion of his deal.
If you're JPP and you're given the choice between....
If they want to try and get Hankins back or sign a good kicker, then they need to start cutting or restructuring people. And if a JPP deal is coming it needs to come soon.
Still not enough.......
They will get Robinson's $ by cutting Thomas. They can find money for Hankins by restructuring other deals; of course getting the long term deal done with JPP would help this cause significantly as well.
They can pretty easily redo Vernon's deal. It essentially had a break at the end of the second year, they may feel that he's shown enough to warrant the removal of that break allowing them to prorate more of the deal. It's not going to net masses of space for a splurge unless they do Snacks or Eli as well (both of which are more risky from an age pov)
BBI had this fantasy, that we had all this cap space....many still want to mortgage the future to sign guys....
Fact is, we didn't have the money, and this was a lousy free agency year.....and now we have to restructure, someone, just to have some cap space, to make minimal moves during the season.....we had about 10M last year....we basically have nothing right now....
Reese has to hit several homeruns in the draft....
BBI had this fantasy, that we had all this cap space....many still want to mortgage the future to sign guys....
Fact is, we didn't have the money, and this was a lousy free agency year.....and now we have to restructure, someone, just to have some cap space, to make minimal moves during the season.....we had about 10M last year....we basically have nothing right now....
Reese has to hit several homeruns in the draft....
2. JT Thomas probably cannot pass a physical yet which is why he is still here
3. Reese needs to make JPP his truly best offer. Structure the deal so his cap hit this year is minimal with guaranteed dollars in the form of guaranteed roster bonus/salary in 2018/2019
4. The Giants will sign a decent kicker. Kickers are always available.
5. Do not be shocked to see Eli adjust his contract
6. Exactly who do you want them to cut?
Quote:
only saves you about a little over 4M.....but then you have to replace them with bodies, and those bodies subtract from that 4M....
BBI had this fantasy, that we had all this cap space....many still want to mortgage the future to sign guys....
Fact is, we didn't have the money, and this was a lousy free agency year.....and now we have to restructure, someone, just to have some cap space, to make minimal moves during the season.....we had about 10M last year....we basically have nothing right now....
Reese has to hit several homeruns in the draft....
Normally I would agree. But with Eli's age I would mortgage the future. I think JPP gets a longterm deal at some point which will free up space. But that space will be used for the next few years when we beging extending the likes of Pugh and ODB. Really the Marshall signing was a homerun in terms of the contract.
Quote:
In comment 13393680 Doomster said:
Quote:
only saves you about a little over 4M.....but then you have to replace them with bodies, and those bodies subtract from that 4M....
BBI had this fantasy, that we had all this cap space....many still want to mortgage the future to sign guys....
Fact is, we didn't have the money, and this was a lousy free agency year.....and now we have to restructure, someone, just to have some cap space, to make minimal moves during the season.....we had about 10M last year....we basically have nothing right now....
Reese has to hit several homeruns in the draft....
Normally I would agree. But with Eli's age I would mortgage the future. I think JPP gets a longterm deal at some point which will free up space. But that space will be used for the next few years when we beging extending the likes of Pugh and ODB. Really the Marshall signing was a homerun in terms of the contract.
There was money this year too..Brandon Marshal signed. JPP has $17 Million attached to him. Jerry Signed, Fluker signed, etc. There was money. Not the money we had last year but there was money.
JPP's tag is eating up a lot fo cap, yes - but if they needed it, the Giants have several easy cuts and a few ways they can re-structure deals to give some relief. As others mentioned, even a long term deal with JPP won't give a ton of cap relief - I'd guess they plan on plunging big $ into 3 DL spots, but not 4 so Hankins probably gone (outside a short/cheap deal) - he is most likely replaced through draft, as they likely won't pay big $ for a FA DT (the market has been soft so anything still possible, and it's supposed to be a solid DL draft). They can make some room, but won't have $ for any big deals after last year's splurge.
This team seems to have most of the big pieces (solid QB, playmaking WR, good rush ends and run stuffing DT, lock down CB and playmaking SS) - they need to fill out the depth and hope they can cobble together a decent OL. Based on where the talent supposedly is in this draft, and how the FA market went, I like what they did with limited funds in FA this year. Hopefully can add a RB/TE and DT from the draft early, competition at OL and depth at LB/DB/WR. Maybe OL/TE/DT over 1st 3 rounds, RB later since supposedly deep, and fill out depth in D and maybe a WR late.
extend him and this year is probably around 2-3mil CAP hit. Give him a 5yr deal with an avg of 8 mil/yr should get it done for both sides.
structure: 17& 18 all guaranteed - he gets guaranteed money in 2 years. It also allows for change in 2019 if needed - new deal or move on
2017 Sal - 2M SB - 6M Rost Bonus 3.5M Cap savings 5.5M
2018 11M 6M 3.5M
2019 12M 6M
2020 12M 6M
THis gives him 44M in 2 years - tough to turn down
extend him and this year is probably around 2-3mil CAP hit. Give him a 5yr deal with an avg of 8 mil/yr should get it done for both sides.
8 mil/yr? Pugh will laugh at that. For everyone clamoring to extend Pugh, you will be shocked what he'll be looking for. Some 6th round pick for the Chiefs eclipsed $8 mil/yr in a recent extension. With Zietler setting the ceiling, Pugh will be looking closer to what Zietler got than some 6th round pick. People who don't like throwing that kind of money to a player who only played a 16 game season once (his rookie year) should be advocating drafting his replacement this year.
I agree, if Pugh waits it out til next year, he probably gets more than Zeiter. Because when he has played he has shown that he can be very good. But what if he gets hurt again. 1yr deal for him. Big risk. It would be a hard choice but I'd probably take the long term deal for a little less money and know my future is secure. But thats just me.
He's safe for now, certainly. That could change if Robinson comes back, especially if the staff considers Goodson a potential three-down LB.
A simplistic version of JPP's deal might be...
5 years $72.5M total with a $30M signing bonus and $1M (guaranteed) salary in 2017 and $4M (guaranteed) salary in 2018. Total guaranteed money is $35M.
His 2017 cap hit would be $7M, his 2018 cap hit would be $10M.
JPP is not going to settle for a 5 year deal with less than Vernon guaranteed money. Feed the ego.
Higher signing bonus and most guaranteed money per year avg.
24-28M SB and 44M total guarantee on 4 years. You want to give 5 years do a 3rd year option for 11M guaranteed to get him highest paid
Re Pugh and a contract. Zeitlers contract is 5-60 12M SB and 31.5 guar. Look at the details - 28M is guaranteed in 2017 & 2018. YOu can easily do a similar deal with Pugh, giving him a higher signing bonus and guarantee money over 3 years and still save cap space