Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

For argument's sake, how about a mock draft?

Klaatu : 3/15/2017 10:44 am
1. Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss. 6-3, 234.

A match-up nightmare in the passing game who showed at the Senior Bowl that he was a willing and capable blocker.

Highlights


2. Tyus Bowser, LB. Houston. 6-3, 247.

Lance Zierlein says: "Ascending pass-rush prospect who is still learning the fundamentals of his position thanks to a late commitment to the sport. Bowser's movement ability in space creates interesting possibilities for teams looking for a twitched-up toy to play with. Bowser lacks production, but his explosive characteristics off the edge will push him up the draft board and give him a chance to play well above where some scouts might project him."

Highlights


3. Jaleel Johnson, DT, Iowa. 6-3, 316.

From DraftWire at the Senior Bowl practices: "Johnson was able to bull-rush top level guards, including Indiana’s Dan Feeney, and find his way in the backfield. His sheer upper-body strength combined and quickness could make him deadly as a pass rusher up the middle at the next level."

Scouting Report from some guy on Youtube


4. Erik Magnuson, OT/OG, Michigan. 6-6, 303.

He did not get invited to the Combine, and boy is he pissed.

Erik Magnuson vs. Ohio State (2016) from DraftBreakdown.com


5. Jermaine Eluemunor, OG/OT, Texas A& M. 6-4, 332

" "I didn't think too much about him before we played, but we were impressed with him. He's a really powerful guy and he moves way better than I expected. I thought he was going to be stiff but he's not." -- SEC defensive coach

"I'm just trying to make my dreams come true."


6. Nate Hairston, CB, Temple. 6-0, 196.

Lance Zierlein says: "Raw but very moldable prospect. Hairston shows good awareness from zone and his physical style and willingness to come tackle make him an immediate fit for primarily zone cover teams. However he may have the tools to eventually become a solid bump-and-run cornerback as he becomes more experienced at the position. Hairston is a projection-based talent who should become a much better player in two years than he is today."

Shrine Game Interview


7. Prescott Line, FB, Michigan State. 5-11, 253

"He's a football player."

Highlights
Pretty cool  
the coffee man : 3/15/2017 10:48 am : link
would have our d looking stronger and still getting a TE. Depth at FB.
Eluemunor  
YANKEE28 : 3/15/2017 10:49 am : link
is a local kid, so the Giants can benefit with an authorized visit to the Stadium, that doesn't count against the NFL limit.
No WR would surprise me, though I guess you count Engram as TE/WR.  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/15/2017 11:04 am : link
Otherwise, I like the position mix, and I agree that developmental OL in the middle rounds would make more sense than reaching for starters earlier. Not sure about the value on the individual picks.
Just don't see TE being that kind of priority  
BillT : 3/15/2017 11:11 am : link
Last year we signed Vernon and resigned JPP and folks were saying we wanted Floyd That made no sense even if he had a position in a 4-3 which he didn't.

This year we sign Ellison and have Adams returning and I just don't think the Giants see TE as the kind of priority they would spend a #1 (or even a #2 or #3) on. Just for a start I think DT and OL are much higher priority positions than TE. If you're drafting a TE #1 you're not drafting something else.
Is this a serious mock?  
PatersonPlank : 3/15/2017 11:21 am : link
.
RE: No WR would surprise me, though I guess you count Engram as TE/WR.  
Klaatu : 3/15/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13393826 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Otherwise, I like the position mix, and I agree that developmental OL in the middle rounds would make more sense than reaching for starters earlier. Not sure about the value on the individual picks.


It was just as hard for me to leave out a WR as it was for me to leave out a RB, but I considered several factors:

1. Engram's versatility, as you noted.

2. Signing Brandon Marshall lessens the need to get another young WR in the pipeline this year.

3. The 2018 WR class looks to be as strong as this year's.

4. The need to reinforce the defense, especially the pass-rush. Bowser and Johnson provide that from edge and the interior, and Bowser has the speed and athleticism to excel in coverage, too.

5. We do agree on the OL. We haven't been successful developing mid-round OL picks for a while now, so I figure we're due. :)
RE: Is this a serious mock?  
Klaatu : 3/15/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13393841 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
.


Is that a serious question?
Nice work...  
Moose and Fury : 3/15/2017 11:37 am : link
I love Engram...the assumption here would be that Howard and Njoku are off the board which seems likely. 23 MAY be a little high for him, but he won't be there at 55 so if the Giants want him, they would need to grab him here.

I like Bowser in Round 2. His stock has been soaring lately and he may not be there at 55, but probably a 50/50 shot at this point. Can do a lot of things with him and would add a dynamic dimension to this D.

Johnson in the 3rd would be a solid pick with the expectation that we're losing Hankinks.

4th and 5th round OL prospects both solid, developmental guys that could probably play a little G day one if necessary (although that shouldn't be necessary without injuries).

I like Hairston as a late round corner as well. Not familiar with the fullback and I sort of doubt we'd carry a full back plus Ellison - I think it's far more likely we carry 3 true TE's plus Ellison. But in the 7th round, anyone's worth a flier.

Again, nice work.
Engram in rd 1 at 23 is a reach  
superspynyg : 3/15/2017 11:46 am : link
He could be there in rd 2 along with Bucky Hodges or Jake Butt in rd 3. I would rather get a de like Riddick, or a Lber like Cunningham, DT or a Oline Bolles (if he is there) in rd 1.I like the Magnuson pick.
Actually I would not mind us targeting Engram  
Bob in Newburgh : 3/15/2017 11:48 am : link
But if your GM is competent, you should trade down if you are going to do that.

Also he won't be able to block well once he is in the NFL. There is only so much laws of physics you can overcome with pure upper body strength when you are light in the pants.
RE: Just don't see TE being that kind of priority  
Klaatu : 3/15/2017 11:48 am : link
In comment 13393831 BillT said:
Quote:
Last year we signed Vernon and resigned JPP and folks were saying we wanted Floyd That made no sense even if he had a position in a 4-3 which he didn't.

This year we sign Ellison and have Adams returning and I just don't think the Giants see TE as the kind of priority they would spend a #1 (or even a #2 or #3) on. Just for a start I think DT and OL are much higher priority positions than TE. If you're drafting a TE #1 you're not drafting something else.


The way I see it, Bill, is that the game is evolving in such a way that it's more about match-ups than it is about traditional roles, and as I said, Engram is a match-up nightmare for opposing defenses due to his speed and athleticism. He can get open very quickly and he catches just about everything thrown his way (10-inch hands!). I salivate when I think about what he can do in terms of YAC.
I understand not reaching for an OL....  
Reb8thVA : 3/15/2017 11:50 am : link
in the first. However, I'm looking for a Dan Feeney, Dorian Johnson ot a Taylor Moton in the second of third round. I want someone who will benefit from a year of seasoning but step into the starting line up next year. I worry that Magnusson and the other kid are too developmental similar to the Mosely, Brewer types that the Giants have invested in but haven't panned out. Unearthing late round OL gems is not the strong suit of this organization. WRs, DEs and CBs they are good at. OL, not so much.
I like  
Giantfootball025 : 3/15/2017 11:56 am : link
Bowser but, Not sure if I do that high, maybe 3rd round. I think many are putting to much stock into TE/RB on here. I think the Giants are going to go with the BPA at #23 and it seems DE/OLB (Reddick?) might be a fit. As for the remaining rounds an OL will be chosen early and a TE could come later in the third maybe someone like Sprinkle or Shaheen. It seems based on how the Giants are evaluating linemen they want versatility so maybe someone like Pitts Dorian Johnson who came in as a tackle but, is a very very good guard prospect. But, I'm not sure he'll make it to our second pick. Lots of possibilities and ways to go for Giants, it's going to be an exciting draft.
RE: RE: Just don't see TE being that kind of priority  
BillT : 3/15/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13393870 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13393831 BillT said:


Quote:


Last year we signed Vernon and resigned JPP and folks were saying we wanted Floyd That made no sense even if he had a position in a 4-3 which he didn't.

This year we sign Ellison and have Adams returning and I just don't think the Giants see TE as the kind of priority they would spend a #1 (or even a #2 or #3) on. Just for a start I think DT and OL are much higher priority positions than TE. If you're drafting a TE #1 you're not drafting something else.



The way I see it, Bill, is that the game is evolving in such a way that it's more about match-ups than it is about traditional roles, and as I said, Engram is a match-up nightmare for opposing defenses due to his speed and athleticism. He can get open very quickly and he catches just about everything thrown his way (10-inch hands!). I salivate when I think about what he can do in terms of YAC.

He may be a matchup nightmare but at 6'3" 237 he's also not a TE in the regular sense of the term, He's an H-Back type and that's not a position that McAdoo has used in the 3 years his offense has been here. A "a willing and capable blocker" when facing a DE who outweighs him by 30 lbs?
RE: Actually I would not mind us targeting Engram  
Klaatu : 3/15/2017 11:59 am : link
In comment 13393869 Bob in Newburgh said:
Quote:
But if your GM is competent, you should trade down if you are going to do that.

Also he won't be able to block well once he is in the NFL. There is only so much laws of physics you can overcome with pure upper body strength when you are light in the pants.


A competent GM strikes while the iron is hot.

As for blocking, Shannon Sharpe was an excellent blocker at 228 pounds. If size was all that mattered then Larry Donnell would be your blocking TE poster boy.
RE: RE: RE: Just don't see TE being that kind of priority  
Klaatu : 3/15/2017 12:06 pm : link
In comment 13393881 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 13393870 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 13393831 BillT said:


Quote:


Last year we signed Vernon and resigned JPP and folks were saying we wanted Floyd That made no sense even if he had a position in a 4-3 which he didn't.

This year we sign Ellison and have Adams returning and I just don't think the Giants see TE as the kind of priority they would spend a #1 (or even a #2 or #3) on. Just for a start I think DT and OL are much higher priority positions than TE. If you're drafting a TE #1 you're not drafting something else.



The way I see it, Bill, is that the game is evolving in such a way that it's more about match-ups than it is about traditional roles, and as I said, Engram is a match-up nightmare for opposing defenses due to his speed and athleticism. He can get open very quickly and he catches just about everything thrown his way (10-inch hands!). I salivate when I think about what he can do in terms of YAC.


He may be a matchup nightmare but at 6'3" 237 he's also not a TE in the regular sense of the term, He's an H-Back type and that's not a position that McAdoo has used in the 3 years his offense has been here.


Who has he had? Donnell? Fells? Adrien Robinson? Don't make me laugh.


Quote:
A "a willing and capable blocker" when facing a DE who outweighs him by 30 lbs?


See my comment above.
the Giants always draft  
djm : 3/15/2017 12:07 pm : link
TWO of WR, DL and DB within the first 3 rounds. Every year. Just food for thought. Interesting mock but it would buck a constant trend.

this mock could be an exception though  
djm : 3/15/2017 12:08 pm : link
since the TE is an athletic play maker and the LB is a pass rusher. Plus the DT in round 3 would fill the DL quota.
like it, and would take that  
ColHowPepper : 3/15/2017 12:10 pm : link
over anything FO is likely to do. Nice commentaries, Klaatu.

Hope you're feeling good, and if the measure of that is your increased
frequency back here, glad to see it
RE: like it, and would take that  
Klaatu : 3/15/2017 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13393902 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
over anything FO is likely to do. Nice commentaries, Klaatu.

Hope you're feeling good, and if the measure of that is your increased
frequency back here, glad to see it


I'm doing very well, health-wise. Just got a glowing review from my Cardiologist on Monday.
And Klaatu  
BillT : 3/15/2017 12:22 pm : link
Like I said, it's more a matter of draft priority than blocking skills. You think they'll spend a #1 on an TE. I think they'll have a number of other positions they'll think far more important.
RE: And Klaatu  
Klaatu : 3/15/2017 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13393921 BillT said:
Quote:
Like I said, it's more a matter of draft priority than blocking skills. You think they'll spend a #1 on an TE. I think they'll have a number of other positions they'll think far more important.


They certainly might and it wouldn't surprise me if they did, but if Jerry Reese wants my opinion, well, here it is.
I really hope Njoku is there  
Rjanyg : 3/15/2017 1:04 pm : link
I think Howard will be gone and even though I like Engram I don't see him as a 1st rounder. Mid 2nd round probably.
RE: Just don't see TE being that kind of priority  
OC2.0 : 3/15/2017 5:50 pm : link
In comment 13393831 BillT said:
Quote:
Last year we signed Vernon and resigned JPP and folks were saying we wanted Floyd That made no sense even if he had a position in a 4-3 which he didn't.

This year we sign Ellison and have Adams returning and I just don't think the Giants see TE as the kind of priority they would spend a #1 (or even a #2 or #3) on. Just for a start I think DT and OL are much higher priority positions than TE. If you're drafting a TE #1 you're not drafting something else.


Agreed 100%
I don't view Engram as a Tight End. I view him as a weapon.  
Klaatu : 3/15/2017 7:57 pm : link
At the Combine, only three WRs ran faster than Engram, and of those three, only one was as tall as he is (6-3), and that kid is 30 pounds lighter.

Rhett Ellison is no threat in the passing game, not a deep threat anyway. He's Bear Pascoe 2.0. Maybe a bit more athletic than Pascoe, but not by much. He'll be in there to block, to pave the way for our RBs and help out the OTs.

Jerrell Adams may turn into something serviceable, or he may not. I'm not passing up Engram because Jerrell Adams is on the team.

Will Tye? Don't even mention Tye and YAC in the same sentence.

When Reese drafted Travis Beckhum in 2009, he had the right idea but the wrong player. Engram runs faster and jumps higher than Eric Ebron or Jared Cook. He scored as many TDs as a Senior as Ebron did in three years at UNC. As I said, he's a weapon, and one that I'd love to see the Giants aim straight at the hearts of opposing defenses.
I think they can do better  
WillVAB : 3/15/2017 11:14 pm : link
Rounds 1 and 2.
Through Round 4  
Percy : 3/15/2017 11:25 pm : link
I like it a lot, especially the TE pick. Realistic and ultra-possible. Past that (i.e., Round 5), I have no idea what else might be available.
I have to say  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/15/2017 11:28 pm : link
that it would shock the hell out of me if the Giants came out of the first two rounds with a TE and a LB.
I like your 3rd Round DT pick  
Torrag : 3/16/2017 6:26 am : link
the rest not so much.
RE: I have to say  
Klaatu : 3/16/2017 11:40 am : link
In comment 13394659 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
that it would shock the hell out of me if the Giants came out of the first two rounds with a TE and a LB.


Would you be as shocked if the first two picks were a WR and a LB (as they were in 2009}? I wouldn't. But to me, Engram could make just as much of an immediate impact as any WR, given his size, speed, and athleticism.

As for Bowser, he's roughly the same size as Clint Sintim (albeit a little lighter), but he's ten times the athlete. He can rush the passer as well as cover TEs over the middle. He's a true three-down LB, the likes of which the Giants haven't had since Christ was a Corporal.
Klaatu, we all know Bowser is probably  
allstarjim : 3/16/2017 2:21 pm : link
Going to a 3-4 team! Combination of not a true need (I recognize that you can justify almost any position as a need), Giants don't put a premium on linebackers, and the fact that the value in the 2nd Rd is likely going to be very good for positions that Giants put a premium on like CB, DL, and WR, I just don't see this happening. But I like the out-of-the-box mock, and the exercise allows us all to get to know these prospects better, so thank you!
RE: Klaatu, we all know Bowser is probably  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/16/2017 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13395320 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Going to a 3-4 team! Combination of not a true need (I recognize that you can justify almost any position as a need), Giants don't put a premium on linebackers, and the fact that the value in the 2nd Rd is likely going to be very good for positions that Giants put a premium on like CB, DL, and WR, I just don't see this happening. But I like the out-of-the-box mock, and the exercise allows us all to get to know these prospects better, so thank you!


+1

It's very much worth noting that there will likely be some tremendous CB talent on the board with the 2nd and 3rd picks.
Back to the Corner