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Patriots Have 10 Skill Position Players That Can Beat You

Mr. Nickels : 3/15/2017 3:18 pm
Brandin Cooks
Julian Edelman
Chris Hogan
Malcolm Mitchell
Danny Amendola

Rob Gronkowski
Dwayne Allen

James White
Dion Lewis
Rex Burkhead

And they still could bring back Blount or sign Peterson or Latavius Murray..
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Brady  
Doomster : 3/15/2017 3:45 pm : link
can't beat you?
RE: RE: chris hogan  
jtfuoco : 3/15/2017 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13394241 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
In comment 13394230 ECham said:


Quote:


is a nice player, but he is not a game breaker



This^^^

As stacked as they maybe (see 2007), they don't want to see Big Blue:)


Maybe in the past but I am not convinced that little Bill wont school Ben in a matchup.
Amendola is also a JAG  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2017 3:47 pm : link
just thought I'd throw that out there.
Pass Rush  
Paulie Walnuts : 3/15/2017 3:49 pm : link
stops all of this shit
RE: .  
jtfuoco : 3/15/2017 3:50 pm : link
In comment 13394212 Go Terps said:
Quote:
What they have is 10 guys that are asked to perform specific jobs that are tailored to their skill sets. They aren't going to be asked to do things they can't.


I agree its why they dominate the current NFL they tailor their system to the players they have not the other way around which in my opinion is much harder to accomplish and more expensive with FA money being tossed around.
I wouldn't say all of those guys  
Cenotaph : 3/15/2017 3:55 pm : link
can 'beat' you, as in coaches need to game plan for then. Their WR's are nice, but Cooks is the main threat - Amendola hasn't been awesome there, Mitchell is still developing, Edelman is more of a nice #2/3 WR etc. All of their RB's do specific things well and fit a role, they aren't really complete star type RB's. Gronk is an extreme talent at TE, but the injury issues, and Allen is a top end #2 TE who can fill in for Gronk, but not a world beater. Any, they can only play 5 of those guys at one time anyway.

Oh yeah, and the coach and QB make a lot of players look better. The Pats actually haven't killed it in the draft - they miss as many picks as anyone, and more than some. But they make a lot of trades, get more picks, so have more chances to hit. And they develop players well and fit excellent fits for their system - players you have their best years there and don't approach that elsewhere.
Every team has their version of Hogan, Burkhead & Mitchell  
Eric on Li : 3/15/2017 3:57 pm : link
they don't have Tom Brady - that's the guy who is really beating the defenses. Is there really an appreciable talent difference between those 3 and Paul Perkins, Tavares King, Roger Lewis, Shane Vereen, or even Will Tye?
Maybe you should find  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/15/2017 3:58 pm : link
a Patriots fansite? You might be more comfortable there.
Let's count ours  
Rafflee : 3/15/2017 4:02 pm : link
Marshall
Shep
Odell
Vereen
Perkins

The Pats guys are certainly more easily identified, as a Large Group.... but I believe the Giants will see the emergence of a 4th receiver, a Tight End, and Another RB

The Pats do tend to spread production to specific guys for specific tasks--- a successful G Team would have much more "horsepower" from their front 3-4 guys, specifically the Wide Receiver Group
RE: RE: chris hogan  
Brown Recluse : 3/15/2017 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13394241 Mdgiantsfan said:
Quote:
In comment 13394230 ECham said:


Quote:


is a nice player, but he is not a game breaker



This^^^

As stacked as they maybe (see 2007), they don't want to see Big Blue:)


Giant fans love living in the past.

RE: Amendola is also a JAG  
Tuckrule : 3/15/2017 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13394254 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
just thought I'd throw that out there.


You would be incorrect. Speed agility in tight spaces gets open. Try again and don't just be a hater
The list is Edelman Cook Gronk White  
Young Elijah : 3/15/2017 4:18 pm : link
And honestly Gronk is the only one you cant game plan against. But since you only have to about 50% of the time (since that all he plays) I'll take my chances.

And no one on there can run the ball. Strength vs Strength NE passing game vs our Pass Defense I think we can hold our own. If Eli and Co can give us 24+ pts a game we should be a legit contenders.
RE: RE: Amendola is also a JAG  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2017 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13394300 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
In comment 13394254 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


just thought I'd throw that out there.



You would be incorrect. Speed agility in tight spaces gets open. Try again and don't just be a hater


Yeah, no one else in the NFL can do that...

I'm not being a hater, I fully respect what the Pats do, they are the only ones to do it after-all. That said, if someone is going to create a thread about how deadly all their players are I'm going to call BS on it where applicable.

Danny Amendola is a career 9.5 YPC player who's best season with the Rams netted him 666 yards, and best with the Pats was 4 TD's. He's had an injury riddled career and is 1 more concussion from being out of the league entirely.

If he was as good as you say he is, he'd be a focal point in the Pats offense and would eclipse the 700 yard mark atleast once in his career. He has a knack for getting open, and that's it. Its a great trait to have but he isn't the only player on the Pats to be able to do this, he's replaceable.
Malcom Mitchell may be just a JAG  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2017 4:29 pm : link
as well but I'll give him a couple more years before I call him that.
And the Giants have the QB  
djm : 3/15/2017 4:30 pm : link
That has beaten the patriots.
RE: Gosh!  
10to13td : 3/15/2017 4:31 pm : link
In comment 13394205 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Should we just cancel the season now and give them another Lombardi Trophy?
Very well said....Fuck the PATS.
Will Tye ?  
Spider56 : 3/15/2017 4:35 pm : link
Seriously I doubt Will Tye would make the Patriots practice squad ... Having guys like him on the roster shows how far we still have to go to get to the SB level.
Guys that can beat you?  
Deej : 3/15/2017 4:44 pm : link
I though they parted ways with Aaron Hernandez.
RE: Will Tye ?  
Deej : 3/15/2017 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13394334 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Seriously I doubt Will Tye would make the Patriots practice squad ... Having guys like him on the roster shows how far we still have to go to get to the SB level.


We won a super bowl with Ballard and Beckum at TE. Where precisely between Travis Beckum and Will Tye is the line on which super bowl dreams die?
Danny Amendola didn't play like a JAG in the Super Bowl  
Go Terps : 3/15/2017 4:50 pm : link
.
Hey you forgot Malcolm Floyd  
Giants86 : 3/15/2017 4:50 pm : link
ehh come on its the product of their system.

Most of those guys are nice players
but only 3 would scare me

Edelman
Gronk
Cooks
Is the QB position  
Earl the goat : 3/15/2017 4:55 pm : link
Not considered a skill position?
Make it 11. TB
Isn't there a Patriots site where you guys  
shelovesnycsports : 3/15/2017 5:00 pm : link
can lick the toe jam off that team and we don't have to see it everyday?
Only ones that dont scare me are  
Glover : 3/15/2017 5:09 pm : link
Amendola, Allen, and Burkhead. Aside from that, they got some serious players, and they didnt want the guy who had 18 TDs last year.
Not bad.
RE: Hey you forgot Malcolm Floyd  
pjcas18 : 3/15/2017 5:10 pm : link
In comment 13394353 Giants86 said:
Quote:
ehh come on its the product of their system.

Most of those guys are nice players
but only 3 would scare me

Edelman
Gronk
Cooks


Malcolm Floyd? Do you mean Michael Floyd? He's a UFA
Brady and BB goes...then  
micky : 3/15/2017 5:12 pm : link
That team goes nowhere
Instead of bashing the Pats we should be taking notes  
Go Terps : 3/15/2017 5:12 pm : link
It's not like Belichick is the first great coach. There have been great thinkers before him like Paul Brown and Tom Landry that have advanced the game with their innovations to the benefit of all coaches that came after them (including Belichick himself).

Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is? It doesn't seem as simple as saying it's an on-field revolution, because it's not as though the Patriots have introduced us something like the West Coast Offense or umbrella defense.

Belichick's obviously an elite mind when it comes to actually coaching the game, but I wonder if his greatness lies in his mastery of roster/game plan management within the constraints of the salary cap/free agency.
RE: ...  
TC : 3/15/2017 5:13 pm : link
In comment 13394200 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
this is what happens when you hit on a lot of your draft picks...

That's partially the result of having on average almost 9.5 draft picks every draft, including multiple picks among the first 3 rounds, as the Patriots historically have.
?  
TyreeHelmet : 3/15/2017 5:14 pm : link
Edelman, Cooks and Gronk are game changers. The rest are JAGS.
This is awesome..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/15/2017 5:17 pm : link
when guys like Mitchell, Burkhead and Allen are lauded, assumedly just for being Patriots.

Hell, if those three are game changers, you might as well throw in any mediocre TE, WR and utility back into the mix.

But I guess when people become fucking Patriots they are automatically golden.
RE: Instead of bashing the Pats we should be taking notes  
TC : 3/15/2017 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13394385 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's not like Belichick is the first great coach. There have been great thinkers before him like Paul Brown and Tom Landry that have advanced the game with their innovations to the benefit of all coaches that came after them (including Belichick himself).

Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is? It doesn't seem as simple as saying it's an on-field revolution, because it's not as though the Patriots have introduced us something like the West Coast Offense or umbrella defense.

Belichick's obviously an elite mind when it comes to actually coaching the game, but I wonder if his greatness lies in his mastery of roster/game plan management within the constraints of the salary cap/free agency.

Belichick's genius is in developing a total, integrated system in which drafting, player indoctrination, motivation, team culture and coaching are all parts of one system. And I have no doubt that he is its architect. Anyone who believes he doesn't get exactly what he wants in the draft, haven't counted the number of Super Bowl rings on his fingers.
Belichick  
NikkiMac : 3/15/2017 6:42 pm : link
Drafts smart players who can think on the run that's

Why Ochocinco was lost there no smarts !
whatever.  
annexOPR : 3/15/2017 6:44 pm : link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgQ14DqbC-g
RE: Danny Amendola didn't play like a JAG in the Super Bowl  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2017 6:52 pm : link
In comment 13394351 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


And neither did Deion Branch. Better player game Amendola but same premise.

Are the Pats above criticism? It's impossible to have hat discussion with you. We get it, they are great and you want the Giants to carbon copy their approach. Not sure what else there is to say then.
I guess  
5BowlsSoon : 3/15/2017 7:06 pm : link
Everyone else is playing for 2nd place.
Except for Gronk, none of those guys can beat you  
WideRight : 3/15/2017 7:25 pm : link
without Brady
RE: ...  
Mason : 3/15/2017 7:58 pm : link
In comment 13394200 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
this is what happens when you hit on a lot of your draft picks...


most of the players listed aren't Pats draft picks.
thats what they saidq  
spike : 3/15/2017 7:59 pm : link
when they were 16-0
.  
shelovesnycsports : 3/15/2017 8:10 pm : link
RE: RE: Instead of bashing the Pats we should be taking notes  
HomerJones45 : 3/15/2017 8:19 pm : link
In comment 13394393 TC said:
Quote:
In comment 13394385 Go Terps said:


Quote:


It's not like Belichick is the first great coach. There have been great thinkers before him like Paul Brown and Tom Landry that have advanced the game with their innovations to the benefit of all coaches that came after them (including Belichick himself).

Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is? It doesn't seem as simple as saying it's an on-field revolution, because it's not as though the Patriots have introduced us something like the West Coast Offense or umbrella defense.

Belichick's obviously an elite mind when it comes to actually coaching the game, but I wonder if his greatness lies in his mastery of roster/game plan management within the constraints of the salary cap/free agency.


Belichick's genius is in developing a total, integrated system in which drafting, player indoctrination, motivation, team culture and coaching are all parts of one system. And I have no doubt that he is its architect. Anyone who believes he doesn't get exactly what he wants in the draft, haven't counted the number of Super Bowl rings on his fingers.
Meh all the great coaches have some form of that system. You find that in any successful organization.

Little Bill has brought ultimate specialization to the skill positions. He's got the deep threat, the end of game runner, that pass catcher rb, the shifty receiver, the zone defense receiver, the large outside receiver, etc. Then he mixes and matches to exploit weaknesses, matchups and situations. His talent is in pltalent is in finding the right mix of these tools.
Edelman is a complete product of the sytem  
Vanzetti : 3/15/2017 8:31 pm : link
He is very effective for Patriots but if he went elsewhere, his numbers would be a lot lower. He probably would not even start on the Giants.
RE: Instead of bashing the Pats we should be taking notes  
Rafflee : 3/15/2017 9:10 pm : link
In comment 13394385 Go Terps said:
Quote:

Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is?


He's certainly willing to deploy his guy to their best advantages as players. He figures out how to get skilled players "with the same position" on the field---Hernandez and Gronk, as a great example. He is not overly captive to systems, other than as framework. He doesn't force his system---he understands the players he needs and the players he has.

.  
shelovesnycsports : 3/15/2017 9:13 pm : link
With all due respect to the Patriots, the only names that jump out are  
George from PA : 3/16/2017 6:18 am : link
The coach, Tom Brady, Gronk and Edelmen.... Possibly Cook.

The other guys all do well due to their system
they are solid  
Les in TO : 3/16/2017 10:27 am : link
but it's not as if they are the Rams' late 90s/early 00s greatest show on turf or the 1980s 49ers teams that were truly stacked with elite talent.
Mr. Nickles, whats your conclusion?  
idiotsavant : 3/16/2017 10:32 am : link
that we should therefor draft skills kids high?

But wait, Bill B. does not do that....?!?

what is your point here exactly?
Amendola? Hogan? Mitchell?  
Sonic Youth : 3/16/2017 10:37 am : link
Hold me, I'm scared.

Pats look great, but give me a break. Not every guy on there is a gamebreaker, not even remotely so.
Go Terps  
Bill2 : 3/16/2017 10:39 am : link
1) much greater use and refinement of analytics and probabilities. On line real time

2) Like Lombardi...very simple offensive system for the players. Can change every skill players assignment with one word at the line of scrimmage. Every player can run every route out of every formation. but the defense never knows who is going to run which route out of which formation. The number of possible plays is enormous but it's no strain to learn.

3) opponents are analyzed for what routes and what formations they have difficulty with. That analysis is from past data patterns. It's re calculated all during the game as the opposing defense makes adjustments and substitutes players.

The net result is the opponent is always forced into their least probability of success every single play.

Stop Nicks and Cruz and make them beat you with their third option.

Force the other team to be successful with their least likely option every play.

The model is closer to game theory on steroids ...As you might find in finance and in the military
excellent post  
idiotsavant : 3/16/2017 10:47 am : link
especially like the note about how the set are boiled down to simple language for on field and off.

bingo, I had been thinking generally about something like that as a basis for DL centric, DL called, Defense here
.  
Bill2 : 3/16/2017 2:12 pm : link
Considering that there are 5 skill players beyond the QB and about 8 formations and 6 routes (all of which can be run at different depths)...and then add running plays and special plays...a defense has to prepare for about 250 possible plays. Some are run by Patriot tendency but many are run by your tendencies.

What stops them? A great DL to stop the run and generate a pass rush that wrecks rhythm, requires one of the 5 to stay in to block, messes the timing and depth of the routes and great secondary play on their top 2 receivers.

Know any opponents in Patriot history who did just that?

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