What they have is 10 guys that are asked to perform specific jobs that are tailored to their skill sets. They aren't going to be asked to do things they can't.
What they have is 10 guys that are asked to perform specific jobs that are tailored to their skill sets. They aren't going to be asked to do things they can't.
I agree its why they dominate the current NFL they tailor their system to the players they have not the other way around which in my opinion is much harder to accomplish and more expensive with FA money being tossed around.
can 'beat' you, as in coaches need to game plan for then. Their WR's are nice, but Cooks is the main threat - Amendola hasn't been awesome there, Mitchell is still developing, Edelman is more of a nice #2/3 WR etc. All of their RB's do specific things well and fit a role, they aren't really complete star type RB's. Gronk is an extreme talent at TE, but the injury issues, and Allen is a top end #2 TE who can fill in for Gronk, but not a world beater. Any, they can only play 5 of those guys at one time anyway.
Oh yeah, and the coach and QB make a lot of players look better. The Pats actually haven't killed it in the draft - they miss as many picks as anyone, and more than some. But they make a lot of trades, get more picks, so have more chances to hit. And they develop players well and fit excellent fits for their system - players you have their best years there and don't approach that elsewhere.
Every team has their version of Hogan, Burkhead & Mitchell
they don't have Tom Brady - that's the guy who is really beating the defenses. Is there really an appreciable talent difference between those 3 and Paul Perkins, Tavares King, Roger Lewis, Shane Vereen, or even Will Tye?
The Pats guys are certainly more easily identified, as a Large Group.... but I believe the Giants will see the emergence of a 4th receiver, a Tight End, and Another RB
The Pats do tend to spread production to specific guys for specific tasks--- a successful G Team would have much more "horsepower" from their front 3-4 guys, specifically the Wide Receiver Group
And honestly Gronk is the only one you cant game plan against. But since you only have to about 50% of the time (since that all he plays) I'll take my chances.
And no one on there can run the ball. Strength vs Strength NE passing game vs our Pass Defense I think we can hold our own. If Eli and Co can give us 24+ pts a game we should be a legit contenders.
You would be incorrect. Speed agility in tight spaces gets open. Try again and don't just be a hater
Yeah, no one else in the NFL can do that...
I'm not being a hater, I fully respect what the Pats do, they are the only ones to do it after-all. That said, if someone is going to create a thread about how deadly all their players are I'm going to call BS on it where applicable.
Danny Amendola is a career 9.5 YPC player who's best season with the Rams netted him 666 yards, and best with the Pats was 4 TD's. He's had an injury riddled career and is 1 more concussion from being out of the league entirely.
If he was as good as you say he is, he'd be a focal point in the Pats offense and would eclipse the 700 yard mark atleast once in his career. He has a knack for getting open, and that's it. Its a great trait to have but he isn't the only player on the Pats to be able to do this, he's replaceable.
Seriously I doubt Will Tye would make the Patriots practice squad ... Having guys like him on the roster shows how far we still have to go to get to the SB level.
Seriously I doubt Will Tye would make the Patriots practice squad ... Having guys like him on the roster shows how far we still have to go to get to the SB level.
We won a super bowl with Ballard and Beckum at TE. Where precisely between Travis Beckum and Will Tye is the line on which super bowl dreams die?
Danny Amendola didn't play like a JAG in the Super Bowl
It's not like Belichick is the first great coach. There have been great thinkers before him like Paul Brown and Tom Landry that have advanced the game with their innovations to the benefit of all coaches that came after them (including Belichick himself).
Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is? It doesn't seem as simple as saying it's an on-field revolution, because it's not as though the Patriots have introduced us something like the West Coast Offense or umbrella defense.
Belichick's obviously an elite mind when it comes to actually coaching the game, but I wonder if his greatness lies in his mastery of roster/game plan management within the constraints of the salary cap/free agency.
this is what happens when you hit on a lot of your draft picks...
That's partially the result of having on average almost 9.5 draft picks every draft, including multiple picks among the first 3 rounds, as the Patriots historically have.
It's not like Belichick is the first great coach. There have been great thinkers before him like Paul Brown and Tom Landry that have advanced the game with their innovations to the benefit of all coaches that came after them (including Belichick himself).
Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is? It doesn't seem as simple as saying it's an on-field revolution, because it's not as though the Patriots have introduced us something like the West Coast Offense or umbrella defense.
Belichick's obviously an elite mind when it comes to actually coaching the game, but I wonder if his greatness lies in his mastery of roster/game plan management within the constraints of the salary cap/free agency.
Belichick's genius is in developing a total, integrated system in which drafting, player indoctrination, motivation, team culture and coaching are all parts of one system. And I have no doubt that he is its architect. Anyone who believes he doesn't get exactly what he wants in the draft, haven't counted the number of Super Bowl rings on his fingers.
And neither did Deion Branch. Better player game Amendola but same premise.
Are the Pats above criticism? It's impossible to have hat discussion with you. We get it, they are great and you want the Giants to carbon copy their approach. Not sure what else there is to say then.
It's not like Belichick is the first great coach. There have been great thinkers before him like Paul Brown and Tom Landry that have advanced the game with their innovations to the benefit of all coaches that came after them (including Belichick himself).
Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is? It doesn't seem as simple as saying it's an on-field revolution, because it's not as though the Patriots have introduced us something like the West Coast Offense or umbrella defense.
Belichick's obviously an elite mind when it comes to actually coaching the game, but I wonder if his greatness lies in his mastery of roster/game plan management within the constraints of the salary cap/free agency.
Belichick's genius is in developing a total, integrated system in which drafting, player indoctrination, motivation, team culture and coaching are all parts of one system. And I have no doubt that he is its architect. Anyone who believes he doesn't get exactly what he wants in the draft, haven't counted the number of Super Bowl rings on his fingers.
Meh all the great coaches have some form of that system. You find that in any successful organization.
Little Bill has brought ultimate specialization to the skill positions. He's got the deep threat, the end of game runner, that pass catcher rb, the shifty receiver, the zone defense receiver, the large outside receiver, etc. Then he mixes and matches to exploit weaknesses, matchups and situations. His talent is in pltalent is in finding the right mix of these tools.
Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is?
He's certainly willing to deploy his guy to their best advantages as players. He figures out how to get skilled players "with the same position" on the field---Hernandez and Gronk, as a great example. He is not overly captive to systems, other than as framework. He doesn't force his system---he understands the players he needs and the players he has.
1) much greater use and refinement of analytics and probabilities. On line real time
2) Like Lombardi...very simple offensive system for the players. Can change every skill players assignment with one word at the line of scrimmage. Every player can run every route out of every formation. but the defense never knows who is going to run which route out of which formation. The number of possible plays is enormous but it's no strain to learn.
3) opponents are analyzed for what routes and what formations they have difficulty with. That analysis is from past data patterns. It's re calculated all during the game as the opposing defense makes adjustments and substitutes players.
The net result is the opponent is always forced into their least probability of success every single play.
Stop Nicks and Cruz and make them beat you with their third option.
Force the other team to be successful with their least likely option every play.
The model is closer to game theory on steroids ...As you might find in finance and in the military
Considering that there are 5 skill players beyond the QB and about 8 formations and 6 routes (all of which can be run at different depths)...and then add running plays and special plays...a defense has to prepare for about 250 possible plays. Some are run by Patriot tendency but many are run by your tendencies.
What stops them? A great DL to stop the run and generate a pass rush that wrecks rhythm, requires one of the 5 to stay in to block, messes the timing and depth of the routes and great secondary play on their top 2 receivers.
Know any opponents in Patriot history who did just that?
Put those 10 guys on any other team, then what?
This^^^
As stacked as they maybe (see 2007), they don't want to see Big Blue:)
Quote:
is a nice player, but he is not a game breaker
This^^^
As stacked as they maybe (see 2007), they don't want to see Big Blue:)
Maybe in the past but I am not convinced that little Bill wont school Ben in a matchup.
I agree its why they dominate the current NFL they tailor their system to the players they have not the other way around which in my opinion is much harder to accomplish and more expensive with FA money being tossed around.
Oh yeah, and the coach and QB make a lot of players look better. The Pats actually haven't killed it in the draft - they miss as many picks as anyone, and more than some. But they make a lot of trades, get more picks, so have more chances to hit. And they develop players well and fit excellent fits for their system - players you have their best years there and don't approach that elsewhere.
Shep
Odell
Vereen
Perkins
The Pats guys are certainly more easily identified, as a Large Group.... but I believe the Giants will see the emergence of a 4th receiver, a Tight End, and Another RB
The Pats do tend to spread production to specific guys for specific tasks--- a successful G Team would have much more "horsepower" from their front 3-4 guys, specifically the Wide Receiver Group
Quote:
is a nice player, but he is not a game breaker
This^^^
As stacked as they maybe (see 2007), they don't want to see Big Blue:)
Giant fans love living in the past.
You would be incorrect. Speed agility in tight spaces gets open. Try again and don't just be a hater
And no one on there can run the ball. Strength vs Strength NE passing game vs our Pass Defense I think we can hold our own. If Eli and Co can give us 24+ pts a game we should be a legit contenders.
Quote:
just thought I'd throw that out there.
You would be incorrect. Speed agility in tight spaces gets open. Try again and don't just be a hater
Yeah, no one else in the NFL can do that...
I'm not being a hater, I fully respect what the Pats do, they are the only ones to do it after-all. That said, if someone is going to create a thread about how deadly all their players are I'm going to call BS on it where applicable.
Danny Amendola is a career 9.5 YPC player who's best season with the Rams netted him 666 yards, and best with the Pats was 4 TD's. He's had an injury riddled career and is 1 more concussion from being out of the league entirely.
If he was as good as you say he is, he'd be a focal point in the Pats offense and would eclipse the 700 yard mark atleast once in his career. He has a knack for getting open, and that's it. Its a great trait to have but he isn't the only player on the Pats to be able to do this, he's replaceable.
We won a super bowl with Ballard and Beckum at TE. Where precisely between Travis Beckum and Will Tye is the line on which super bowl dreams die?
Most of those guys are nice players
but only 3 would scare me
Edelman
Gronk
Cooks
Make it 11. TB
Not bad.
Most of those guys are nice players
but only 3 would scare me
Edelman
Gronk
Cooks
Malcolm Floyd? Do you mean Michael Floyd? He's a UFA
Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is? It doesn't seem as simple as saying it's an on-field revolution, because it's not as though the Patriots have introduced us something like the West Coast Offense or umbrella defense.
Belichick's obviously an elite mind when it comes to actually coaching the game, but I wonder if his greatness lies in his mastery of roster/game plan management within the constraints of the salary cap/free agency.
That's partially the result of having on average almost 9.5 draft picks every draft, including multiple picks among the first 3 rounds, as the Patriots historically have.
Hell, if those three are game changers, you might as well throw in any mediocre TE, WR and utility back into the mix.
But I guess when people become fucking Patriots they are automatically golden.
Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is? It doesn't seem as simple as saying it's an on-field revolution, because it's not as though the Patriots have introduced us something like the West Coast Offense or umbrella defense.
Belichick's obviously an elite mind when it comes to actually coaching the game, but I wonder if his greatness lies in his mastery of roster/game plan management within the constraints of the salary cap/free agency.
Belichick's genius is in developing a total, integrated system in which drafting, player indoctrination, motivation, team culture and coaching are all parts of one system. And I have no doubt that he is its architect. Anyone who believes he doesn't get exactly what he wants in the draft, haven't counted the number of Super Bowl rings on his fingers.
Why Ochocinco was lost there no smarts !
And neither did Deion Branch. Better player game Amendola but same premise.
Are the Pats above criticism? It's impossible to have hat discussion with you. We get it, they are great and you want the Giants to carbon copy their approach. Not sure what else there is to say then.
most of the players listed aren't Pats draft picks.
Quote:
It's not like Belichick is the first great coach. There have been great thinkers before him like Paul Brown and Tom Landry that have advanced the game with their innovations to the benefit of all coaches that came after them (including Belichick himself).
Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is? It doesn't seem as simple as saying it's an on-field revolution, because it's not as though the Patriots have introduced us something like the West Coast Offense or umbrella defense.
Belichick's obviously an elite mind when it comes to actually coaching the game, but I wonder if his greatness lies in his mastery of roster/game plan management within the constraints of the salary cap/free agency.
Belichick's genius is in developing a total, integrated system in which drafting, player indoctrination, motivation, team culture and coaching are all parts of one system. And I have no doubt that he is its architect. Anyone who believes he doesn't get exactly what he wants in the draft, haven't counted the number of Super Bowl rings on his fingers.
Little Bill has brought ultimate specialization to the skill positions. He's got the deep threat, the end of game runner, that pass catcher rb, the shifty receiver, the zone defense receiver, the large outside receiver, etc. Then he mixes and matches to exploit weaknesses, matchups and situations. His talent is in pltalent is in finding the right mix of these tools.
Have we yet been able to identify what Belichick's great innovation is?
He's certainly willing to deploy his guy to their best advantages as players. He figures out how to get skilled players "with the same position" on the field---Hernandez and Gronk, as a great example. He is not overly captive to systems, other than as framework. He doesn't force his system---he understands the players he needs and the players he has.
The other guys all do well due to their system
But wait, Bill B. does not do that....?!?
what is your point here exactly?
Pats look great, but give me a break. Not every guy on there is a gamebreaker, not even remotely so.
2) Like Lombardi...very simple offensive system for the players. Can change every skill players assignment with one word at the line of scrimmage. Every player can run every route out of every formation. but the defense never knows who is going to run which route out of which formation. The number of possible plays is enormous but it's no strain to learn.
3) opponents are analyzed for what routes and what formations they have difficulty with. That analysis is from past data patterns. It's re calculated all during the game as the opposing defense makes adjustments and substitutes players.
The net result is the opponent is always forced into their least probability of success every single play.
Stop Nicks and Cruz and make them beat you with their third option.
Force the other team to be successful with their least likely option every play.
The model is closer to game theory on steroids ...As you might find in finance and in the military
bingo, I had been thinking generally about something like that as a basis for DL centric, DL called, Defense here
What stops them? A great DL to stop the run and generate a pass rush that wrecks rhythm, requires one of the 5 to stay in to block, messes the timing and depth of the routes and great secondary play on their top 2 receivers.
Know any opponents in Patriot history who did just that?