for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: NBA/Knicks Chat 3/16

giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 9:37 am
Brace for the win tonight.

Last night was another step closer in sorting out the playoff hunt.

-Wizards drop to Mavs at home, Boston is building a comfortable lead (and supposedly has the easiest remaining schedule in the NBA)

-Barnes 22 and 9, Dirk 20. Wall 26 and 11, Beal 24 and 5

-Paul George with 39. Frank the tank with 20, but of course Charlotte got dominated on the glass.

-IT with 27, horford a near triple double (20, 8 and 9). Rubio 23 and 7

-Hayward 25, 6 and 9.

-Miami wants a playoff spot. Dragic 33, Whiteside 20 and 17. AD 27,8 and 3

-Portland beats SA in SA. Dame 36, CJ 26, Nurk 16 and 9 (but with possible the worst 90 second stretch of basketball I've ever seen. With 2 minutes to go, he misses 3 layup/dunks, misses 2 free throws, missed 2 defensive rotations, inexplicably fumbled another easy layup out of bounds and threw away an inbounds pass to allow SAS back into the game).

-Kawhi 34, 6 and 9. 3 st;s and 2 blks. LMA made a return, good to see things are alright with him

-Houston routs LAL as anyone could've called. Harden trip doub. Luu Williams with 30 and 7. Randle with 32.

-Grizz beat Bulls. Can't imagine thats a fun game to watch. Gasol/Conley with 27 and 7

-Milwaukee also wants a playoff spot. They are like 15 and 4 when Middleton plays, and he's been on a minutes restriction until late. Beating good teams too.

-The crap bowl: Kings move ahead of us in the standings.

-Skal with 32 and 11. he's a very real NBA player.
-WCS 14, 14, 5. 4 steals and 4 blocks
Where do the Knicks  
Big Rick in FL : 3/16/2017 9:43 am : link
Currently pick?
Gotta say I'm looking on the wrong side  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 9:44 am : link
of the Boogie trade. I still contend they could've gotten more (so does Vlade). But a bunch of young guys to be excited about. I know Deej was sticking up for SAC on that deal, I can totally see why.

SAC is still a game ahead of NO in the standings. You of course always choose the rebuilding team with the star (Davis), but NO's cap structure is so ridiculously awful it's hard to see how they improve the roster much more now.

If I'm NO I trade Boogie in the summer. Might not get much but yeesh. Get something, anything, before you decide this team is the future.

Way too hot take: Skal is one of the top 5 rookies from this past draft. He's way more of a polished scorer than Chriss. Better rebounder/defender as well.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Where do the Knicks  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 9:44 am : link
In comment 13394857 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Currently pick?


7th I think? They're tied with SAC, so 7 or 8.
Sacramentos future is looking up  
Earl the goat : 3/16/2017 9:46 am : link
Willie Cayley Stein
Skal Labusserrue
Pappigianis
Mclemore

Possibly two lottery picks

Cap space and youth

Team is in the rise. They play hard for their coach
Still there is no way  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 9:47 am : link
the Knicks finish below SAC.

SAC's upcoming schedule:

@OKC
@SAS
MIL
@GS
@LAC
MEM
UTAH
@ NO
@MIN
DAL

Im counting that as a 10 game losing streak.
RE: Sacramentos future is looking up  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 9:48 am : link
In comment 13394865 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
Willie Cayley Stein
Skal Labusserrue
Pappigianis
Mclemore

Possibly two lottery picks

Cap space and youth

Team is in the rise. They play hard for their coach


Hield too.

Almost certainly 2 lottery picks. NO is relying on winning the lottery with the 7th/8th pick to build on their future. Sacramento isn't.
Yes.  
Earl the goat : 3/16/2017 9:52 am : link
My bad. I left out Hield
Berman reporting  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 10:16 am : link
that Phil won't fire Hornacek, nor should he.
Link - ( New Window )
I didnt understand labissiere's fall during the draft  
Deej : 3/16/2017 10:28 am : link
and I think I mentioned it on the draft thread. He had top 1-2 overall projections going into the season. We've seen some guys fall from there to like mid lottery, e.g. Barnes. But to fall to the end of round one seemed like nonsense to me. To get a guy with the toolbox to be an NBA starter or even star that late in the draft makes no sense.
he got tarred as being lazy  
Greg from LI : 3/16/2017 10:36 am : link
Didn't do much at Kentucky and was thought to have a bad attitude.
Sacramento has upside  
Deej : 3/16/2017 10:37 am : link
I think WCS can be a more athletic Tyson Chandler -- especially running the floor. In fact, I think there is a chance he's a decent PnR big. He wont be Karl Malone, but he can get to the rim quickly and elevate. Skal has stretch 4 potential (he's been filthy so far on mid range and long 2s). Hield at a minimum can be a volume 3 point shooter. McLemore is a guy who Im not investing in long term though. He's a bench guard to me, and not even a 6th man.

Problematically, no one on that team can be the best player on even a very good team, barring some really unforseen growth. And it's doubtful anyone there is even a #2 on a title team. It is plausible to me that in WCS, Hield, and Skal, what they have are guys who are good candidates to be the #3, 4, and 5 players on a title team. The need to find a way to draft a super star, and then add another in the draft or UFA (eventually).
RE: he got tarred as being lazy  
Deej : 3/16/2017 10:38 am : link
In comment 13394945 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Didn't do much at Kentucky and was thought to have a bad attitude.


I heard that. Still, to fall from 1/2 to 28 for that struck me as really odd. Coaches must have demolished him in private calls.
RE: he got tarred as being lazy  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13394945 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Didn't do much at Kentucky and was thought to have a bad attitude.


I don't know if it was being lazy, he just looked scarred and overwhelmed at times. Cal doesn't seem to care for using his bigs in pick and pop/spacing situations (remember how surprised people were that KAT was a killer shooter his rookie year? Wasn't used much in that situation). And skal doesn't seem like he was ready to be a back to the basket player.

But still, in a shitty draft where fliers were being taken on marquesse chriss and Thon maker you would've thought Skal would've been in a similar situation. His pure numbers weren't even that bad given that he only played like 17 minutes a game.
RE: Sacramento has upside  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 10:43 am : link
In comment 13394948 Deej said:
Quote:
I think WCS can be a more athletic Tyson Chandler -- especially running the floor. In fact, I think there is a chance he's a decent PnR big. He wont be Karl Malone, but he can get to the rim quickly and elevate. Skal has stretch 4 potential (he's been filthy so far on mid range and long 2s). Hield at a minimum can be a volume 3 point shooter. McLemore is a guy who Im not investing in long term though. He's a bench guard to me, and not even a 6th man.

Problematically, no one on that team can be the best player on even a very good team, barring some really unforseen growth. And it's doubtful anyone there is even a #2 on a title team. It is plausible to me that in WCS, Hield, and Skal, what they have are guys who are good candidates to be the #3, 4, and 5 players on a title team. The need to find a way to draft a super star, and then add another in the draft or UFA (eventually).


Agreed. It's time for SAC to actually hit on their high lottery picks. 2 this year. The stuaskas trade is going to kill them next year. The sixers are getting a top 3 pick out of them (maybe even 2 if the Lakers keep theirs this year).
RE: Sacramento has upside  
Metnut : 3/16/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13394948 Deej said:
Quote:
I think WCS can be a more athletic Tyson Chandler -- especially running the floor. In fact, I think there is a chance he's a decent PnR big. He wont be Karl Malone, but he can get to the rim quickly and elevate. Skal has stretch 4 potential (he's been filthy so far on mid range and long 2s). Hield at a minimum can be a volume 3 point shooter. McLemore is a guy who Im not investing in long term though. He's a bench guard to me, and not even a 6th man.

Problematically, no one on that team can be the best player on even a very good team, barring some really unforseen growth. And it's doubtful anyone there is even a #2 on a title team. It is plausible to me that in WCS, Hield, and Skal, what they have are guys who are good candidates to be the #3, 4, and 5 players on a title team. The need to find a way to draft a super star, and then add another in the draft or UFA (eventually).


Given how terrible they've been for a long time, the Kings turning into a Western conference version of the Hawks isn't the worst outcome. It's at least a starting point (i.e., not all teams like the Hawks of 1-3 years ago would fail to add a piece to take a step forward).
RE: RE: Sacramento has upside  
Deej : 3/16/2017 10:49 am : link
In comment 13394967 Metnut said:
Quote:


Given how terrible they've been for a long time, the Kings turning into a Western conference version of the Hawks isn't the worst outcome. It's at least a starting point (i.e., not all teams like the Hawks of 1-3 years ago would fail to add a piece to take a step forward).


It's not a terrible outcome to be the Hawks -- you get to watch good basketball. But the Hawks clearly never had a shot at a title.

The missing piece(s) from the Hawks/Kings is the super-duper star. Unfortunately, that's the hardest piece to get. I wouldnt trade KP for all WCS, Hield, Skal, and McLemore. And KP is far from assured to end up a top 10 player.
Might  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 11:01 am : link
be the kind of guy worth looking at with our 2nd 2 despite his age
Link - ( New Window )
White wouldn't be a bad second round choice  
Greg from LI : 3/16/2017 11:08 am : link
He can't do much besides score, but he can shoot and has serious range.
If the Kings draft say  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 11:08 am : link
Fox/Smith and Tatum/Isaac, they'll have an interesting combo of long, elite athletes.

Wouldn't trade trade KP/Willy for that group, but they might leap the Lakers in year 1 of their "rebuild". There might be an outside shot of Skal developing into a LMA type. I mean that's what the expectation was of him before he entered Kentucky.
Obviously the Kings mid lottery picks  
Deej : 3/16/2017 11:18 am : link
could turn into stars. Im not convinced Fox has that ceiling, but if they can walk away with Smith plus one of Tatum, Isaac, or Markkanen, yeah, they could have their top 2.
RE: White wouldn't be a bad second round choice  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 11:23 am : link
In comment 13395004 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He can't do much besides score, but he can shoot and has serious range.


Just trying to be realistic with the level of guys you would take/land in the 50's of the draft. A guy with "a skill" (even as a specialist) likely has the best odds.
Would be interesting to see how GMs would view  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 11:27 am : link
Jabari Parker after 2 ACL tears to the same knee in 2 years. A team with some young second/third tier players could make a move. Something like WCS or zubac for Parker straight up. Milwaukee could get its center it's been searching for and a rebuilding squad could take on a high risk player that can turn into a 2nd option, health permitting.
Im really getting into Isaac for the Knicks  
Deej : 3/16/2017 11:48 am : link
not sure management wants to wait him out because his body needs work. But I think his potential exceeds the guards we're likely to get a chance to draft.
Isaac  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 12:08 pm : link
like Jackson does not "play skinny". He has no problem bodying bigger guys. I'm not saying he's going to be able to handle the Zbos of the world but he's very versatile. I actually think his upside is on par with any of the top tier guys (not that I would take him over Fultz/Jackson/Ball) but my mind wouldn't be blown if he ends up as good/or better. Very, very intriguing prospect... oh yeah grew up in the Bronx (bonus).
Dan's got it right  
Greg from LI : 3/16/2017 12:12 pm : link
If you watch Isaac, he doesn't play like a skinny guy. He's stronger than he looks and doesn't shy away from physical play. Yeah, he'll probably still be a bit physically overmatched at times early in his NBA career, but not so much that he can't make an early impact.
I've  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 12:12 pm : link
always been intrigued by the guys with late growth spurts. They seemingly tend to be the "freaks" who have some guard skills at a massive size
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Dan's got it right  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13395114 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If you watch Isaac, he doesn't play like a skinny guy. He's stronger than he looks and doesn't shy away from physical play. Yeah, he'll probably still be a bit physically overmatched at times early in his NBA career, but not so much that he can't make an early impact.


I mean obviously it would benefit him to be an NBA weight room etc but he's not some fragile Shawn Bradley. If you want to look for ultimate upside I think it may be a guy like Paul George. Also considered a good kid. I love the versatility and he (like KP) is a guy where you can both dream on the upside but also expect instant "production" if not instant stardom.
Suns are pulling a Lakers  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 12:17 pm : link
The Suns already shelved veterans Brandon Knight and Tyson Chandler in favor of a youth evaluation period, otherwise known as Phase 1 of Operation Tank, and now theyre adding Eric Bledsoe to that list. There are advantages to the youth movement gauging their in-game capabilities, getting them some NBA experience and showcasing their talents for trade bait but no NBA coaches know full well vets will help win more games. They might not all admit, but Suns coach Earl Watson wasnt afraid to:

Its a great thing for younger players; its a dangerous thing for coaches, Watson said, via The Arizona Republic, when management shut down Knight and Chandler late last month. This is not college. Coaches dont have 7-10 year contracts. But for us, coming into this situation, we owe it to these players for them to be great for their career. And as a former player, Ive had my chance, so I have to give these young guys their opportunity. I have to give them whatever it takes, even if at some times theres risk for us moving forward as a staff. We owe it to these players. I always believe that if you do the right thing, then somehow opportunity opens up, whether its continue to coach somewhere else, but you owe it to these younger players every day to develop and build confidence.
yeah I like Isaac as a 3  
Deej : 3/16/2017 12:19 pm : link
moreso than a stretch 4. I'd develop him as a Paul George, with stretch 4 as a fall back option.
Wouldn't be surprised  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 12:20 pm : link
if we're picking between Isaac, Monk and the Frenchman, and I'd be happy with Isaac or the Frenchman. I like the template that Milwaukee is setting with those long freak athletes, and those two guys fit that profile.
RE: yeah I like Isaac as a 3  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13395129 Deej said:
Quote:
moreso than a stretch 4. I'd develop him as a Paul George, with stretch 4 as a fall back option.


Paul George is a superstar so I don't want to claim it's "high" odds he's Paul George (otherwise he'd be considered a lock top 3 pick right?) but he has that kind of multi-faceted skillset. I've been a big fan since the first time I saw him play. Got hammered a few times and didn't back down. Extremely fluid for his height, not on the same planet in terms of passing but in terms of big man fluidity best I've seen the last 2 seasons other than Simmons. Awesome running the court. I see some concern with the form on his shot but 35% from 3, 80% from the line and he's 6'10 where I think an awkward 3 point form is less of an issue. He had a 3 game run against #11 UNC, #15 Notre Dame and #12 Louisville where he averaged 18.6 and 11 on 17/27 with 3.6 blocks
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 12:27 pm : link
taking Isaac over Monk/Frenchy pretty quickly.
Tatum is the one that  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 1:02 pm : link
resembles paul George in this class to me.

Isaac to me is more like a taller Brandon Ingram. Yeah, I know everyone on this board thinks Ingram is another Anthony Bennett but he's been hitting shots and plays good D. Isaac is certainly more aggressive than Ingram, not as skinny either, but he has a similar skill set.
Really  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 1:05 pm : link
not interested in Frenchy. Seems like the prototypical "we need a PG and the other 4 are off the board so lets take him" pick. Would be pretty bummed.
Link - ( New Window )
Right now  
Deej : 3/16/2017 1:06 pm : link
I see a top 3 of Fultz, Ball, and Jackson. The next group for me is Tatum, Smith, Markkanen, and Isaac. Probably in that order but I'd flip the last two on the Knick's draft board due to fit. As of now, pre-tourney, I dont think I pass any of them to take Monk, Fox, Williams, or Le PG.
Tatum is a conundrum  
Deej : 3/16/2017 1:09 pm : link
a good passer but also an isolation player. I like him a lot more the less iso he plays.
RE: Really  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13395186 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not interested in Frenchy. Seems like the prototypical "we need a PG and the other 4 are off the board so lets take him" pick. Would be pretty bummed. Link - ( New Window )


Again, if he was looked at as a 2 guard with potential as a 1 guard, everyone would see him in a different light. All his PG skills would look like a plus at the 2 spot, rather than insufficient for a 1.
RE: Right now  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13395190 Deej said:
Quote:
I see a top 3 of Fultz, Ball, and Jackson. The next group for me is Tatum, Smith, Markkanen, and Isaac. Probably in that order but I'd flip the last two on the Knick's draft board due to fit. As of now, pre-tourney, I dont think I pass any of them to take Monk, Fox, Williams, or Le PG.


I think I agree with that assessment completely, even the order.
DX-  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 1:19 pm : link
Fresh off of a season-best 15-point outing versus Aris in the Champions League, Ntilikina is one of the more steady guard prospects in this draft class as he defends multiple positions, can play on or off the ball, has a strong feel for the game and a mature professional approach, and has greatly improved as a shooter. Ntilikina may not be at the same level talent-wise as the top-tier American guards in the draft, but hes still a very intriguing long-term two-way prospect because of the aforementioned qualities. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/frank-ntilikina-u18-european-championship-scouting-analysis-5821/ DraftExpress

50% from the line? Sure seems like a reach given what is likely still on the board. Ceiling/floor combo isn't where it should be for a guy you are taking that high
Just keep losing.  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 1:23 pm : link
The top seven has been my goal for weeks now. Pelicans are pissing me off lately.
What do you mean by  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 1:32 pm : link
Given that high?
I don't think he's in the group of the top 7, but in the range of fox and monk (2 guys who are questionable at defending any position at this point) I think he's right there. Right along side williams and bridges.
RE: What do you mean by  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13395234 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Given that high?
I don't think he's in the group of the top 7, but in the range of fox and monk (2 guys who are questionable at defending any position at this point) I think he's right there. Right along side williams and bridges.


To me the "goal" is to be a good enough team that you aren't getting "too many" shots at premium players. A top 7 pick in a loaded draft should be a shot at greatness. KP represented a risk with insane reward. A euro project with skills that if reached = superstar. Frenchy is regarded as 5th in physical tools and yet still a project. While his defensive upside may be high, I don't view his offensive upside as such. He's most certainly not in my top 7. He's in the 10-13 range for me and a reach at 7. At 7 it seems reasonable to suggest you will be taking a guy who has all-star upside. I don't see it with this kid whereas I do with Isaac, Williams, Markkannen, Smith (others being projected in the 6-10 range as of right now). I'm not that high on Monk so I could go either way on those 2.
I'm entirely uninterested in floor  
Deej : 3/16/2017 1:44 pm : link
except as a tiebreaker re two otherwise equal prospects. Im not sacrificing an ounce of upside or even middle case to protect ourselves on the downside. Who cares if your #6-8 pick busts but ends up playable as a 9th man?

So what I really want is to take a swing at greatness. Who has the best shot at being, at least, the 2nd best player on a very good team.
RE: I'm entirely uninterested in floor  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13395254 Deej said:
Quote:
except as a tiebreaker re two otherwise equal prospects. Im not sacrificing an ounce of upside or even middle case to protect ourselves on the downside. Who cares if your #6-8 pick busts but ends up playable as a 9th man?

So what I really want is to take a swing at greatness. Who has the best shot at being, at least, the 2nd best player on a very good team.


Yeah and I have an extremely hard time formulating a path in which Frenchy is that. I can come up with one for Isaac, Smith and Markkanen, maybe less so for Williams but are you going to complain if he's Rasheed Wallace? I dunno. Even my pet project Hartenstein seems to have in a dream scenario a "Kevin Love" esque upside.
Sorry  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 1:48 pm : link
I'm not saying frenchy at 7. I personally like williams so much so that I think it should be a "top8" rather than a top 7". Would like to see more of fox but he'd be right after that group alongside Frenchy, monk and bridges.
Epic Darko interview  
Deej : 3/16/2017 1:52 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Sorry  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13395266 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
I'm not saying frenchy at 7. I personally like williams so much so that I think it should be a "top8" rather than a top 7". Would like to see more of fox but he'd be right after that group alongside Frenchy, monk and bridges.


Well to be clear I'm talking specifically about the Knicks pick vs. who I like/don't like overall. I can't really see a scenario where he's the guy I would want the Knicks picking if they pick 7th.
Herbert  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 1:53 pm : link
8 Willy Hernangomez
NEW YORK C
Last week: 6
This is a weekly thing, but Hernangomez deserves credit for the fact hes been consistent since the Knicks committed to giving him minutes. From Jan. 31 onward, he has averaged 11.2 points, 9.9 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 0.8 blocks and 0.9 steals in 25 minutes. He might lose some of his playing time now that Kristaps Porzingis is starting at center, but he has made it tough for Jeff Hornacek to keep him off the court -- on Tuesday he had 13 points, 16 rebounds, four assists, a block and three steals in 31 minutes, filling in when Porzingis left the game with a thigh injury.
Im really high on Willy  
Deej : 3/16/2017 2:00 pm : link
I wasnt before the season, but his feel for the game is really fantastic. So much of his rebounding and finishing is just innate talent/feel. He's a great example of why an athletic assessment is really no where close to the be-all of an NBA prospect.

I think there are 3 facets to a big man's game -- offense, defense, and rebounding. Willy is materially ahead of Marc Gasol in offense and rebounding at the same age (and rebounding, any age). Gasol made huge strides defensively. Willy can do that too but it isnt assured.
Zubac  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 2:02 pm : link
seems like a Willy-esque steal by the Lakers
RE: Zubac  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13395293 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
seems like a Willy-esque steal by the Lakers


Love Zubac. He plays differently than Willy, has these nice touch floaters in space but gets similar results as Willy
Scott Davis  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 2:41 pm : link
did a "consensus poll" with Givony, Ford and a few others

Isaac came in at #6, Smith #4, Tatum 5, Fox 8, Frenchy 10, Williams 11
Isaac and bacon playing at 9:20 vs FGCU  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 3:53 pm : link
Markannen at 9:50 vs North Dakota

Caleb Swanigan (maybe slips to the 2nd round pick) @7:30.

For the Knicks I'm not so sure I'd consider monk considerably over Dwayne Bacon. I find it hard to believe all these traditional, post up centers that aren't touted as rim protectors would go over a strong 3 and D prospect in the back end of the lottery.
RE: Scott Davis  
Deej : 3/16/2017 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13395370 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
did a "consensus poll" with Givony, Ford and a few others

Isaac came in at #6, Smith #4, Tatum 5, Fox 8, Frenchy 10, Williams 11


Were the others Monk and Markkanen, or did someone sneak it.

That seems to be a somewhat consistent top 11. Will be interesting to see which players rise into that group through good tourney/workouts (and who falls when their game gets picked apart or injury history becomes known).
RE: RE: Scott Davis  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13395501 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13395370 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


did a "consensus poll" with Givony, Ford and a few others

Isaac came in at #6, Smith #4, Tatum 5, Fox 8, Frenchy 10, Williams 11



Were the others Monk and Markkanen, or did someone sneak it.

That seems to be a somewhat consistent top 11. Will be interesting to see which players rise into that group through good tourney/workouts (and who falls when their game gets picked apart or injury history becomes known).


Monk was 7 (though on twitter his own opinion was that Monk reminded him of Lou Williams)

Markkanen was 8

I'd take Markkanen over Monk 10/10 times (I recognize the fit being rough but one COULD be a star, and I think that's Markkanen). Legit 3 point range + that Dirk-like fallback release. I could dream on teams bitching about the Knicks 2 7 foot bombers.
RE: RE: RE: Scott Davis  
nygiants16 : 3/16/2017 4:41 pm : link
In comment 13395526 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13395501 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13395370 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


did a "consensus poll" with Givony, Ford and a few others

Isaac came in at #6, Smith #4, Tatum 5, Fox 8, Frenchy 10, Williams 11



Were the others Monk and Markkanen, or did someone sneak it.

That seems to be a somewhat consistent top 11. Will be interesting to see which players rise into that group through good tourney/workouts (and who falls when their game gets picked apart or injury history becomes known).



Monk was 7 (though on twitter his own opinion was that Monk reminded him of Lou Williams)

Markkanen was 8

I'd take Markkanen over Monk 10/10 times (I recognize the fit being rough but one COULD be a star, and I think that's Markkanen). Legit 3 point range + that Dirk-like fallback release. I could dream on teams bitching about the Knicks 2 7 foot bombers.


if you can find the right point guard markannen and kp would be dangerous..

how long would willy be ok coming iff the bench though?

also how would it work defensively
Defensively would be a tough fit  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 4:46 pm : link
But if you hope KP develops as a rim protector might not be the worst thing.

Again, Willy is fantastic and should be praised and looked as a piece for the future, but let's not get ahead of ourselves about "will he be OK coming off the bench".

This team is still abysmal defensively with Willy at the center. Enes Kanter seems pretty ok about coming off the bench, Willy should as well if it comes to that.
RE: Defensively would be a tough fit  
nygiants16 : 3/16/2017 4:48 pm : link
In comment 13395560 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
But if you hope KP develops as a rim protector might not be the worst thing.

Again, Willy is fantastic and should be praised and looked as a piece for the future, but let's not get ahead of ourselves about "will he be OK coming off the bench".

This team is still abysmal defensively with Willy at the center. Enes Kanter seems pretty ok about coming off the bench, Willy should as well if it comes to that.


your right probably getting ahead of myself on that part
Willy seems to have better lateral  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 4:55 pm : link
quickness and understanding of rotations compared to Kanter. It really depends on how KP develops defensively. If he turns into the rangy rim protector we all hope, then you can live with Willy even if he's below average. Same thing if you get 3 defensive stoppers at the guard and wing spots
I  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 4:58 pm : link
think I would just "worry about" stuff like that later.
RE: I  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 5:16 pm : link
In comment 13395577 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
think I would just "worry about" stuff like that later.


Yup, but at the same time you don't neglect looking at a center who provides different skills solely because of Willy. I still hold KP to a higher pedigree, but I don't think Markannen should 100% be overlooked, either. If he has a higher chance of becoming a star than other guys, it is still a good problem to have.
Rim protection is the last of KP's problems  
Deej : 3/16/2017 5:20 pm : link
since he entered the league he has graded out as a top notch rim protector. Concerns are more about other aspects of defense/rebounding.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 3/16/2017 5:21 pm : link
In comment 13395604 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13395577 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


think I would just "worry about" stuff like that later.



Yup, but at the same time you don't neglect looking at a center who provides different skills solely because of Willy. I still hold KP to a higher pedigree, but I don't think Markannen should 100% be overlooked, either. If he has a higher chance of becoming a star than other guys, it is still a good problem to have.


Markannen is pretty damn impressive. Legit 7 feet tall 43% from 3, 7 rebounds, 82% from the line, love his shot, love it, quick release, form all of it. He's not a freak athlete but runs the court very well for a legit 7 footer.
Wade out for the season  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 5:34 pm : link
Kick the tires?

Lol
comical:  
Enzo : 3/16/2017 6:12 pm : link
Quote:
Al Iannazzone‏Verified account @Al_Iannazzone
Hornacek said he will continue to play his veterans unless management tells him to play the younger guys.

"management" sucks.
RE: RE: RE: I  
Deej : 3/16/2017 7:06 pm : link
In comment 13395611 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

Markannen is pretty damn impressive. Legit 7 feet tall 43% from 3, 7 rebounds, 82% from the line, love his shot, love it, quick release, form all of it. He's not a freak athlete but runs the court very well for a legit 7 footer.


I agree. Im gravitating more towards him and Isaac due to shooting. It's what everyone needs. No one ever asks "how am I going to work this good shooter into my offense".
Markannen  
Deej : 3/16/2017 7:16 pm : link
if you think he is potentially a special scorer, it gets a lot easier to overlook his defensive and athletic issues. Everyone likes to talk up a two way game, but look at some of the deficient defenders who are considered great franchise players. I could easily see someone falling in love with Markannen as high as pick #3.
Not watching much of this  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 8:59 pm : link
but it looks like Derrick Rose is heroically leading us to another pointless victory. Glad we're giving him so much playing time.
Don't count that W just yet...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/16/2017 9:34 pm : link
Knicks trailing Nets by 5 after 3 quarters.

I hope they lose, but losing to the Nets twice in a week can't be good for anyone's job security.
Down 10 with 6:48 left.  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 9:48 pm : link
Still not comfortable.
I know nobody's watching  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 9:53 pm : link
but Hornacek is playing a Holiday/Melo/Lance front court - I guess Lance is the five.
Hollis-Jefferson shot an airball from 3 feet away.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/16/2017 10:03 pm : link
Hornacek looks like he's pondering which method of suicide to attempt tonight.

While I wasn't expecting this loss tonight, I still think they win 3 more games.

Ben Stiller looks like he wants in on whatever Hornacek decides to do tonight.


Bravo, fucking losers  
Deej : 3/16/2017 10:03 pm : link
this team collapses every year. They go from ok-interesting to dog shit.

Yes, Im rooting for losses. But the players arent. What an embarrassment.
You have to wonder what is going through Melo's head.  
PhiPsi125 : 3/16/2017 10:06 pm : link
Either way, I'd be embarrassed if I were him. Probably pissed also.

Or maybe he's content just being in NY on a loser team.
Yeah I wanted to give Hornacek a hug there.  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 10:07 pm : link
Clutch, clutch tank loss. Nets are better than we are right now, plain and simple. Hopefully this team packs it in now.
I'm almost 100% certain they beat the Sixers in the season finale.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/16/2017 10:09 pm : link
I think they will also beat Pistons or Bulls, then steal an unexpected game.

I don't see how they win another road game.

Right now, we're in 6th place.
RE: Yeah I wanted to give Hornacek a hug there.  
nygiants16 : 3/16/2017 10:09 pm : link
In comment 13395866 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Clutch, clutch tank loss. Nets are better than we are right now, plain and simple. Hopefully this team packs it in now.


keeping baker in was huge, he was god awful.tonight and hornacek stuck with him
27-42 with 13 games left.  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 10:11 pm : link
Brutal road trip coming up. They're going 3-10 at best down the stretch.
Yeah Rose was out for a long time.  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 10:12 pm : link
I was flipping back and forth a bit and thought maybe he got hurt.
What a run...  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 10:27 pm : link
Quote:
Al Iannazzone‏ @Al_Iannazzone

Knicks have had losing seasons in 13 of the last 16 years.
RE: You have to wonder what is going through Melo's head.  
DennyInDenville : 3/16/2017 10:33 pm : link
In comment 13395863 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
Either way, I'd be embarrassed if I were him. Probably pissed also.

Or maybe he's content just being in NY on a loser team.

I really wonder what is going through his head also..

I have to imagine he will be traded..

But I honestly think he's content and wants to play here and nowhere else
Wow  
TyreeHelmet : 3/16/2017 10:54 pm : link
Pretty low for the Knicks. Apathy and embarrassment. 2 of the worst things that can happen to a franchise.
Nets are not as bad as record  
hitdog42 : 3/16/2017 11:33 pm : link
They are a bottom tier team but with Lin they are a mid twenties win team (still brutal)
Culture will eventually breed greatness.
I don't think its out of hand to feel better about the 2020 nets then the 2020 knicks
Markannen with 16 and 6 at half  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 11:35 pm : link
Isaac with 14,6 and 8, 1 block, 2 steals and bacon with 22 and 8 with 4 minutes to go.

Swanigan with 16, 14 and 4, 3 blocks.

First round still, all going against crappy schools, but monitoring nonetheless.
RE: Nets are not as bad as record  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 11:37 pm : link
In comment 13395931 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
They are a bottom tier team but with Lin they are a mid twenties win team (still brutal)
Culture will eventually breed greatness.
I don't think its out of hand to feel better about the 2020 nets then the 2020 knicks


No, it's extremely out of hand. Unless "culture" counts for 15 wins in itself. Lopez will go somewhere else and the Nets won't crack 30 wins for another 5 years.

On the other hand, the Knicks will crack 30 wins this season.
Literally one of the most absurd things I've heard basketball  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 11:39 pm : link
related.

I wouldn't trade being a browns fan or a TB rays fan with being a Nets fan. There's no American professional sports team with a bleaker outlook than the Brooklyn Nets.
Isaac does look pretty damn smooth out there.  
bceagle05 : 3/16/2017 11:40 pm : link
An Isaac/KP front court combo is something to dream about.
RE: Isaac does look pretty damn smooth out there.  
giantsfan44ab : 3/16/2017 11:47 pm : link
In comment 13395943 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
An Isaac/KP front court combo is something to dream about.


Try getting a board over Willy/KP/Isaac (post-weight room and a few NY strips).
RE: Nets are not as bad as record  
Deej : 3/17/2017 7:49 am : link
In comment 13395931 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
They are a bottom tier team but with Lin they are a mid twenties win team (still brutal)
Culture will eventually breed greatness.
I don't think its out of hand to feel better about the 2020 nets then the 2020 knicks


Your theory is that Jeremy Lin is a 10 win player?

In any event, the Nets have no young stud and dont own their 2017 and 2018 picks. New free agency rules make it very hard to acquire star players. So your only argument could be that the Knicks utterly blow it over the next 4 years, both losing and not reaping rewards from the draft. Oh, shit...
RE: RE: Nets are not as bad as record  
kelsto811 : 3/17/2017 7:56 am : link
In comment 13396041 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13395931 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


They are a bottom tier team but with Lin they are a mid twenties win team (still brutal)
Culture will eventually breed greatness.
I don't think its out of hand to feel better about the 2020 nets then the 2020 knicks



Your theory is that Jeremy Lin is a 10 win player?

In any event, the Nets have no young stud and dont own their 2017 and 2018 picks. New free agency rules make it very hard to acquire star players. So your only argument could be that the Knicks utterly blow it over the next 4 years, both losing and not reaping rewards from the draft. Oh, shit...


Yes Jeremy Lin can account for a +5/10 in the standings column with the alternative the Nets were trotting out. Sean Kilkpatrick? Sean Dinwiddie? The added factor of the Lin/Lopez combo on the pnr alone helps swing games/momentum for the Nets. Plus there bench has been playing better with Lin back. The Nets are a shit team but they aren't as shitty as everyone thinks.
Their*  
kelsto811 : 3/17/2017 7:56 am : link
:)
No, he cant  
Deej : 3/17/2017 8:03 am : link
there isnt a world where Jeremy Lin is a 10 win player. His best year was 5.4 wins (i.e net 4.2 over this season), and that was 4 years ago. Lets acknowledge what a 10 win player is. Last year, guys who were roughly 10 win players were: Whiteside, Aldridge, Millsap, Kemba, Derozan, Thomas.

Jeremy Lin is no more a 10 win player than Carmelo is an All-NBA defender.
I have a lot of respect  
bceagle05 : 3/17/2017 8:06 am : link
for what the Nets are doing - I'd trade front offices and coaching staffs with them in a heartbeat. They're facing some long odds though. If the Knicks dump Rose and Melo and add Tatum/Isaac/SmithJr/etc. in the draft, all of a sudden the culture will improve by leaps and bounds.
RE: Nets are not as bad as record  
BigBlueShock : 3/17/2017 8:06 am : link
In comment 13395931 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
They are a bottom tier team but with Lin they are a mid twenties win team (still brutal)
Culture will eventually breed greatness.
I don't think its out of hand to feel better about the 2020 nets then the 2020 knicks

Your obsession with the Nets "culture" is absolutely hysterical. I mean, I guess it's all you have, since the team is abysmal and has no picks until 2049, but I think it's a bit much. No, it's a lot much.
RE: No, he cant  
kelsto811 : 3/17/2017 8:06 am : link
In comment 13396048 Deej said:
Quote:
there isnt a world where Jeremy Lin is a 10 win player. His best year was 5.4 wins (i.e net 4.2 over this season), and that was 4 years ago. Lets acknowledge what a 10 win player is. Last year, guys who were roughly 10 win players were: Whiteside, Aldridge, Millsap, Kemba, Derozan, Thomas.

Jeremy Lin is no more a 10 win player than Carmelo is an All-NBA defender.


"This season, the Nets are 7-16 with Lin, whos been on minutes restriction all season long, and 6-38 without him."

All I'm saying is, you can make the argument hitdog is making easily. There's evidence to back it up.
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah, Lin makes sure to lace them up  
Deej : 3/17/2017 8:30 am : link
against the hapless Knicks.

That's pretty scant evidence. We know what a 10 win player looks like, and it's not Lin. If it was Lin, he wouldnt be on his 6th team in 7 years.
RE: Yeah, Lin makes sure to lace them up  
kelsto811 : 3/17/2017 8:35 am : link
In comment 13396071 Deej said:
Quote:
against the hapless Knicks.

That's pretty scant evidence. We know what a 10 win player looks like, and it's not Lin. If it was Lin, he wouldnt be on his 6th team in 7 years.


Okay you are right. Screw the facts just presented to you. Because he beat the Knicks twice, not like other "10 win players" face the Knicks right? Nevermind that a 10 win player on a team with little talent is probably different from a 10 win player on a team like the Spurs, for example. When the guy plays, he matched the Nets win total for the entire season in half the games played. He improves the Nets, that was the entire point of the comment to begin with.
Problem for Lin  
nygiants16 : 3/17/2017 8:55 am : link
when he gets hurt he takes his sweet time coming back, dude will not play hurt..

also i dont care how good your culture is, if you do not have the players you are not going to win and no one is leaving money on the table to go to the nets..

also they will not control their first round picks so how do you expect to get a young stud and build your team?

knicks already have a young stud and are going to add to it this year and probably next year, so they would already be ahead of the nets by 3 years in their rebuild..

nets rebuild wont start until after next season
RE: RE: Yeah, Lin makes sure to lace them up  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 8:59 am : link
In comment 13396074 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
In comment 13396071 Deej said:


Quote:


against the hapless Knicks.

That's pretty scant evidence. We know what a 10 win player looks like, and it's not Lin. If it was Lin, he wouldnt be on his 6th team in 7 years.



Okay you are right. Screw the facts just presented to you. Because he beat the Knicks twice, not like other "10 win players" face the Knicks right? Nevermind that a 10 win player on a team with little talent is probably different from a 10 win player on a team like the Spurs, for example. When the guy plays, he matched the Nets win total for the entire season in half the games played. He improves the Nets, that was the entire point of the comment to begin with.


Let's take that logic you are using.

The Mavericks started the season 17-30.

The Mavericks are 12-8 since they signed Yogi Ferrell. Using those win %s over an 82 game season, yogi is therefore a 20 win player.

The Nets fucking cut a 20 win player who is 23 years old, 10 games into the season.

What a joke of an organization.
Lopez has missed five games this year.  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 9:14 am : link
In those five games, the Nets are 0-5. Brook Lopez certainly will not be on this team in 2 years, maybe not even 1. There is "hard evidence" that the Nets can't win a game without Lopez.

Forget Lin, the nets are a 0 win team without brook. That's the logic you are using.

The Nets are 5 years from being where the Orlando Magic and the Sacramento Kings are right now. Buckle up, it's going to be a rough, rough ride. If you are a Nets fan, now is the time to advocate theories like the NBA is rigged or how the players don't care about playing hard. Not that the Nets are onto something big.

Go root for the browns in the meantime. They have more hope.
Correction  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 9:16 am : link
The Nets are 0-14 without brook over the last two years.
I'd take the Knicks  
Metnut : 3/17/2017 9:33 am : link
over the Nets in 2020-2022 and beyond just because the Knicks have vastly better assets but its not a foregone conclusion. The Nets coach & GM look vastly superior to the Knicks IMO and coach & GM (especially!) matters.

It'll be a challenge for them to improve but the Spurs havn't had a high pick in decades so it's not impossible. They have two late firsts in a deep draft this year which would be a nice place for them to start. I'd feel better about the Knicks if they committed to rebuild but there's a chance they overpay mediocre guys this offseason and doom themselves for another cycle unless they get a perennial all-star in this year's draft.

It would be great for NY basketball to see both teams good for a 5 year stretch.
Zach Lowe on Derrick Rose:  
Enzo : 3/17/2017 9:35 am : link
Quote:
Derrick Rose is among the half-dozen worst defenders among all full-time starters. He's either lazy, clueless, or both. The Knicks should not re-sign him unless his market collapses into nothingness.

"lazy" and "clueless"? Sounds familiar....

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Yeah, Lin makes sure to lace them up  
Deej : 3/17/2017 9:37 am : link
In comment 13396074 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
In comment 13396071 Deej said:


Quote:


against the hapless Knicks.

That's pretty scant evidence. We know what a 10 win player looks like, and it's not Lin. If it was Lin, he wouldnt be on his 6th team in 7 years.



Okay you are right. Screw the facts just presented to you. Because he beat the Knicks twice, not like other "10 win players" face the Knicks right? Nevermind that a 10 win player on a team with little talent is probably different from a 10 win player on a team like the Spurs, for example. When the guy plays, he matched the Nets win total for the entire season in half the games played. He improves the Nets, that was the entire point of the comment to begin with.


I wont belabor the point that others have made with the Yogi and Lopez win "facts". You cant extrapolate W-L differentials in games a guy played, especially over a sample size, in the manner you suggest.
RE: I'd take the Knicks  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13396142 Metnut said:
Quote:
over the Nets in 2020-2022 and beyond just because the Knicks have vastly better assets but its not a foregone conclusion. The Nets coach & GM look vastly superior to the Knicks IMO and coach & GM (especially!) matters.

It'll be a challenge for them to improve but the Spurs havn't had a high pick in decades so it's not impossible. They have two late firsts in a deep draft this year which would be a nice place for them to start. I'd feel better about the Knicks if they committed to rebuild but there's a chance they overpay mediocre guys this offseason and doom themselves for another cycle unless they get a perennial all-star in this year's draft.

It would be great for NY basketball to see both teams good for a 5 year stretch.


You need stars to win first and foremost. Not culture. KP gives you hope for that. No one on the Nets does. I wouldn't trade any of the Knicks upcoming picks or Willy for anyone on the Nets (although I'm a RHJ fan, but it's hard seeing him being anything more than a 4th option on a good team). Lavert is decent.

Saying that about the Spurs neglects the fact that the entire dynasty was founded ontop of 2 #1 overall picks who became 2 top 20 all time players. It's just very ignorant to bring up the Spurs model without acknowledging how it all started.

Even Kawhi was a lottery pick. The Nets don't have one of those for another 2 years.
RE: Zach Lowe on Derrick Rose:  
Deej : 3/17/2017 9:42 am : link
In comment 13396151 Enzo said:
Quote:


Quote:


Derrick Rose is among the half-dozen worst defenders among all full-time starters. He's either lazy, clueless, or both. The Knicks should not re-sign him unless his market collapses into nothingness.


"lazy" and "clueless"? Sounds familiar.... Link - ( New Window )


Clueless yes. I think he's dumber than a brick. Maybe the NBA's Pedro Guerrerro. I dont think I'd use the word lazy; rather I think he's made a conscious decision to save his body for UFA this season. Thus, he drive to the hoops but avoids contact (when compared to previous season). And on D he plays off, and while he "fights thru screens" b/c that is the scheme, he doesnt do it with abandon.
Ferrel turned out to be a tough loss for the Nets  
kelsto811 : 3/17/2017 9:43 am : link
And a good player for the Mavs, in fact a huge add for them, so I'm not really sure what you are arguing.

I don't really care about how you guys classify a "10 win player", the truth is the Nets have won 6 games with Lin playing and 7 without him. So back to the original point, yes I believe the Nets could be a mid twenties win team if Lin played a full season.
Nets fans are cute.  
Keith : 3/17/2017 9:57 am : link
Who have the Nets beaten with Lin? Knicks twice. Great job. Sacramento. Solid win. Detroit. Who else?

That link above about the Knicks defense, that's Melo in a nutshell. Damning video and says all you need to know.
Rose has completely given up on defense.  
Keith : 3/17/2017 9:59 am : link
Early on in the season he played hard. He made some mistakes because he can be pretty dumb on defense, but he did play hard. Now? Not so much. He doesn't even try anymore because he knows it's a waste of energy and a risk to his future. I don't think the Knicks are dumb enough to even consider bringing him back and if they do, it will be a monumentally bad decision. I do think you can build a team around Rose like the Bulls of 5 years ago, but it cannot be here.
RE: Rose has completely given up on defense.  
Enzo : 3/17/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13396191 Keith said:
Quote:
I do think you can build a team around Rose like the Bulls of 5 years ago, but it cannot be here.

sure, in the Chinese league.
Knicks fans and Nets fan arguing over whose future isn't the worst  
Greg from LI : 3/17/2017 10:06 am : link
has got to be the saddest argument I've ever seen.
The whole Nets culture thing is way overblown. It has 3 pieces  
Deej : 3/17/2017 10:15 am : link
1) Apparently last year guys were just showing up late for practice, shoot around, meetings etc with no consequences.

2) As a point of comparison to the Knicks, who I agree, are getting killed by a terrible culture both on the team and at MSG generally.

3) And finally, it's a sales gimmick to give some hope to a particularly hopeless team, because of the losing and lack of picks.

The notion that the Nets have weaponized "culture" is pretty laughable. Indeed, a number of the early quotes are about "a culture of winning" when these guys will finish last in the NBA
RE: Knicks fans and Nets fan arguing over whose future isn't the worst  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 10:21 am : link
In comment 13396204 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
has got to be the saddest argument I've ever seen.


I'm arguing whether the Nets, the Orlando magic or the Cleveland browns have the worst future. And it's the Nets by a longshot.

Kulish, my point is that using your argument, the Nets aren't going to win a game when Lopez gets traded/walks in FA. It's a dumb argument used on limited sample size. The Nets are still the worst NBA team with or without Lin.

And my point was also Yogi is not a 20 win player. Very good , yes. A better asset than Jeremy Lin, no question. But he by himself is not a 20 win player. Just like how Lin isn't a 10 win player. You put him on the Spurs, he's a replacement player that doesn't add any value.
Losing to the Nets twice  
Deej : 3/17/2017 10:22 am : link
is doing wonders for our draft position, obviously. Basketball reference quantifies it using 7500 simulations of the rest of the season. We are now:

5.2% to draft #1 overall
19.5% to draft top 3
63.5% to draft top 7
83.9% to draft top 8
98% to draft top 10

As of now I have three top tiers -- 3 guys, then 4 guys, then another 4 guys. So either a 3/5 or 4/5 chance we get a crack at one of those top 7 guys (since even at #8 there is a decent shot someone takes a player out of my top 7; e.g. DX has my Isaac at #9 when I have him at 6/7).
RE: RE: Rose has completely given up on defense.  
Sgrcts : 3/17/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13396194 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13396191 Keith said:


Quote:


I do think you can build a team around Rose like the Bulls of 5 years ago, but it cannot be here.


sure, in the Chinese league.


Rose would be a monster in China.
Yep, if we had won either of the Nets games  
bceagle05 : 3/17/2017 10:35 am : link
we'd be 5-7 since the All-Star Break - far too competitive at this point when ping pong balls are at stake. Much better to be 4-8 since the break, with a brutal schedule to close out the year.
Isaac finished with  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 10:59 am : link
17, 10, 5, 2 Blocks, 3 steals. Markannen with 20.
25 points for Dwayne Bacon, too.  
bceagle05 : 3/17/2017 11:02 am : link
Barkley says Bacon's his favorite guy in the tournament, though Barkley probably watches five minutes of college basketball prior to March.
Even if we lose out (and I hope we do)  
Carl in CT : 3/17/2017 11:16 am : link
We still won't be any better than the 6th worst team going into the lottery. Anything can happen, but time will tell save the date May 16th and hope the gods shine on us.
We'll most likely be at seven.  
bceagle05 : 3/17/2017 11:25 am : link
I just want to keep losing so we're closer to six than we are to eight. I don't trust the Pelicans - throw Cousins onto a team and there's no telling what can happen.
RE: Even if we lose out (and I hope we do)  
Deej : 3/17/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13396363 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
We still won't be any better than the 6th worst team going into the lottery.


Not necessarily. If we dont win another game, there is a decent chance we leapfrog PHI and ORL. Probably not LAL (which is sitting everyone to save the pick) and PHX (just sat Bledsoe).

Philly plays ORL, CHIx2, BKx2, and NY down the stretch.

Orlando plays PHI, BKx2, and CHI.

Seems like Philly has an easier schedule, so you probably root for them to beat the Magic on Monday.
It'll be interesting  
bceagle05 : 3/17/2017 11:36 am : link
to see where things stand once this brutal four-game road trip ends. If we're in position to jump a team or two, it's time to pull the plug on Melo and Rose.
Bacon could be a nice player for someone  
Greg from LI : 3/17/2017 11:38 am : link
Probably goes in the 20s.
This Lakers pick situation is unbelievable  
Deej : 3/17/2017 11:45 am : link
They're about 50-50 right now to lose the pick, and if they do it will be the 4 or 5 pick going to Philly.

50-50 Philly gets to choose two of Smith, Markkanen, Jackson/Tatum, or Isaac (or Fox/Monk if they want), with about a 30% shot of upgrading one of those picks to a top 3 pick (rought 10% to pick each of #1, #2, or #3). So there is a legit chance they come out with Fultz/Ball plus Tatum/Isaac/Monk
Next year's class  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 11:49 am : link
overall isn't supposed to be as good as this years, but some people believe the top end talent may be better.

So if the Lakers do keep their pick, philly could realistically have 2 top 3/4 picks in a draft where the picks are supposedly going to be even better than this year (unprotected Kings and lakers pick).
Stop me if you've heard this before - Dolan's a fucking asshole...  
bceagle05 : 3/17/2017 12:01 pm : link
Quote:
At a Knicks game late in 2012, Andariese, 73, just retired and showing symptoms of growing dementia, was honored with the Dick McGuire Knicks Legacy Award.

As Andariese and his family walked to center court from their seats, close to Dolans, Dolan never made a move to congratulate or even acknowledge him. Same after the ceremony. When Andariese returned to his seat, Dolan just sat there.

Andarieses family was furious with Dolans complete disregard for a man who had so well served the Garden, its customers, cable subscribers, radio listeners and employees for over 35 years.

And so, two years later, while that was still infuriating to Andarieses family, what happened wasnt surprising.

The Basketball Hall of Fame had selected Andariese as the winner of the Curt Gowdy Award for broadcasting excellence. Andariese, by then forced to use a walker, was in the house for a Knicks game again seated near Dolan when he was shown on the big screen as per his Hall of Fame honor. An ovation began, then grew. Andariese was moved. Dolan didnt move. Again, he couldnt be bothered.

Mushnick - ( New Window )
Covington  
DanMetroMan : 3/17/2017 12:04 pm : link
is becoming a defensive beast. He's been worth 2.8 dws, for context Tony Allen (arguably the best defensive wing of the past decade) has had "only" 3 seasons where he was worth more. Embiid obviously makes a difference but the Sixers are going to be fine either way. They will have to actively try to fuck things up for it to not work out.
Sixers are fine even if  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 12:12 pm : link
Embiid never sets foot on the court again. Holmes is legit. He's been shooting 3s. Can protect the rim. Simmons in summer league showed he can make the most out of Holmes, finding him spots to get him the ball for easy scores.

Add 3 more top 5 picks over the next two years to Simmons, saric, Holmes, Covington and anderson, people will forget about Embiid.

If Embiid gets healthy, lord have mercy.
Dolan is a very small and petty man  
Deej : 3/17/2017 12:13 pm : link
I assume it comes from him knowing that all that he has is because his father was successful, and his fear that everyone else believes that.
Take  
DanMetroMan : 3/17/2017 12:45 pm : link
him Phil!
Link - ( New Window )
RE: No, he cant  
Mike in NJ : 3/17/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13396048 Deej said:
Quote:
there isnt a world where Jeremy Lin is a 10 win player. His best year was 5.4 wins (i.e net 4.2 over this season), and that was 4 years ago. Lets acknowledge what a 10 win player is. Last year, guys who were roughly 10 win players were: Whiteside, Aldridge, Millsap, Kemba, Derozan, Thomas.

Jeremy Lin is no more a 10 win player than Carmelo is an All-NBA defender.


Jeremy Lin doesn't have to be a 10 win player to make the Nets 10 games better than what they have been. He only has to be 10 games better than who the Nets are playing in his absence. Is he 10 games better than Dinwiddie and Kilpatrick? Most definitely not, but he might be 5 games better....
I'll buy that Lin could be a 5 win player  
Deej : 3/17/2017 1:15 pm : link
at his near-best.
Even if Lin=5 more wins the  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 1:15 pm : link
Nets are still the worst team in the league.

And those wins aren't coming from 22 year olds the Nets can build off of. They are coming from vets that won't be there in 3 years.
The Nets can sign Dwayne wade  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 1:17 pm : link
To a 4 year deal and win 30 games, but it doesn't mean anything because they can build off of Wades production long term.
*cant  
giantsfan44ab : 3/17/2017 1:17 pm : link
.
Back to the Corner