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A question for cap experts. How much cap room would a

Marty in Albany : 3/17/2017 1:18 am
Long term JPP contract provide?
And what are the risks if he retires or is hurt one or two  
Marty in Albany : 3/17/2017 1:23 am : link
Years early?
pretty sure  
DaddyM89 : 3/17/2017 1:31 am : link
there's way too many variables for anyone to accurately answer this.. amount of years, total money, guaranteed money, signing bonus.. etc..
No way to really predict it.  
Big Rick in FL : 3/17/2017 1:43 am : link
Here are a few older contracts though for comparison.

Ndamukong Suh got a 6 year deal worth 114 million with 60 million guaranteed. His cap hit was 6.1 million in his first year.

Olivier Vernon got a 5 year deal worth 85 million with 52 million guaranteed. His cap hit was 13.1 million in his first year. So basically JPP could have a cap hit as low as Suh's 6.1 million or as high as Vernon's 13.1 million.
A five year contract could knock $10M off this year's salary cap...  
Milton : 3/17/2017 1:43 am : link
Naturally the more cap room it provides this year, the more salary cap burden up ahead. And the more guaranteed money built into it, the more risk involved should his career end abruptly.

The simplest contract with the most cap relief could look something like this...

5 years $75M with a $30M signing bonus and a $1M guaranteed salary in year 1 and $4M guaranteed salary in year 2. Under such a contract, the guaranteed money is $35M, the cap hit in 2017 is $7M and the cap hit in 2018 is $10M.
To answer the second part of your question...  
Milton : 3/17/2017 5:06 am : link
Anytime you give someone a bigtime contract, the guaranteed money is gonna be such that you need the guy to give you at least three good years in order to come out of it on the plus side.

Sticking with my example from above, let's say JPP is okay with the total value, but wants more in guaranteed money than $35M. So in year 3 the salary is $8.5M salary with $5M guaranteed and in years 4 and 5 the salaries are $14.5M and $17M respectively (with none of it guaranteed). The contract could also include escalator/bonus clauses for 15+ sacks and/or post-season honors (Pro Bowl, All Pro, DPOY) that could push the total value to $85M.

In reality, the 5 year (for up to) $85M contract is a 3 year $43.5M commitment with $40M guaranteed. I chose $43.5M because that splits the difference between the $17M/year average JPP is seeking and the $12M/year average the Giants were reported to be first offering. If the Giants can get three good years out of JPP, the rest is gravy. If the Giants only get two good years out of him and part ways, he will have cost them $40M for two years of play and spread out over three years of cap hits. Worse would be if both of those years ended with him on IR. But let's think positive thoughts!
Thank you Milton. A lot of food for thought  
Marty in Albany : 3/17/2017 9:09 am : link
.
RE: A five year contract could knock $10M off this year's salary cap...  
WillVAB : 3/17/2017 9:57 am : link
In comment 13395991 Milton said:
Quote:
Naturally the more cap room it provides this year, the more salary cap burden up ahead. And the more guaranteed money built into it, the more risk involved should his career end abruptly.

The simplest contract with the most cap relief could look something like this...

5 years $75M with a $30M signing bonus and a $1M guaranteed salary in year 1 and $4M guaranteed salary in year 2. Under such a contract, the guaranteed money is $35M, the cap hit in 2017 is $7M and the cap hit in 2018 is $10M.


This leaves an 18 mil cap hit per year in seasons 3, 4, 5.

There simply isn't enough for Vernon, Snacks, Jenkins, Eli, OBJ, Collins etc. to take that kind of hit on JPP on the last half of his contract.

If the Giants want to keep him long term, the better play is to eat as much on the front end so there's money to go around when the young guys are looking to get paid -- and if things take a turn for the worse you can cut ties relatively painlessly.

Everyone is looking for cap relief now, but a backloaded contract really makes it difficult to retain guys like OBJ, Collins, Pugh, and Richberg down the road.

If they reach a deal, my guess is his cap hit for '17 will be pretty much the same it is now with the benefit of a lower hit or release after year 3.
But with his physical history,  
Doomster : 3/17/2017 10:00 am : link
you will never get that dollar value the first three years...and JPP is a far cry from that guy, in 2011.....

He is just not worth it.....however, if you don't sign/tag him, how much of a drop off will his replacement be?

And if you don't sign him, you don't necessarily have to have his replacement, but you have to strengthen that side of the defense, with a stud at linebacker, or you strengthen other weaknesses in your defense, like FS and CB depth.....

But sadly, the ship has sailed on freeing up cap space to sign anyone significant now....and I don't think there was any backup plan for JPP not signing the tender right away.....

They are down to three options now......pay though the nose on a deal, pay the tag, or cut him, and roll over the 17M to next season( I wouldn't use it overpaying Hankins).....
Doomster  
GeoMan999 : 3/17/2017 10:26 am : link
I know this topic has been discussed way too much, but I feel the need to balance your comments with actual facts.

JPP recorded 54 total pressures (sacks, hits and pressures), fifth most among 4-3 defensive ends in 2016. In addition, regarding the run he recorded 19 stops among the same group and also was tied for fewest missed tackles (two). By the way, all the people that say his lost fingers are a huge negative.....he led the league in fewest missed tackles for 4-3 DEs.

That is probably why It was predicted he would be in such high demand and why the Giants tagged him. Losing your susperstars does not make the team better.

Geo,  
Doomster : 3/17/2017 10:41 am : link
I understand......we don't have anyone on the roster, that comes close to being his replacement....

The eye, is more important than stats.....how many games did he really have an impact on, to be paid that amount of money?

Sometimes, you have to have a plan....you can't have all stars at every position, and you can't have too large a group of guys, that you overpay for, because it weakens the rest of your team....

In JPP's case, sometimes you have to have a backup plan, even if that plan includes the following season, where the players you want, are more available.....you can't always fix everything in one season.....you make your team the best it can be, without sacrificing the future...
RE: RE: A five year contract could knock $10M off this year's salary cap...  
Keith : 3/17/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13396185 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 13395991 Milton said:


Quote:


Naturally the more cap room it provides this year, the more salary cap burden up ahead. And the more guaranteed money built into it, the more risk involved should his career end abruptly.

The simplest contract with the most cap relief could look something like this...

5 years $75M with a $30M signing bonus and a $1M guaranteed salary in year 1 and $4M guaranteed salary in year 2. Under such a contract, the guaranteed money is $35M, the cap hit in 2017 is $7M and the cap hit in 2018 is $10M.



This leaves an 18 mil cap hit per year in seasons 3, 4, 5.

There simply isn't enough for Vernon, Snacks, Jenkins, Eli, OBJ, Collins etc. to take that kind of hit on JPP on the last half of his contract.

If the Giants want to keep him long term, the better play is to eat as much on the front end so there's money to go around when the young guys are looking to get paid -- and if things take a turn for the worse you can cut ties relatively painlessly.

Everyone is looking for cap relief now, but a backloaded contract really makes it difficult to retain guys like OBJ, Collins, Pugh, and Richberg down the road.

If they reach a deal, my guess is his cap hit for '17 will be pretty much the same it is now with the benefit of a lower hit or release after year 3.


Yeah but the backloaded deals provide less risk for the Giants. They can cut JPP with a smaller dead cap hit and not pay him the salary. Or they can extend him and convert salary to a SB to lower the cap hit later.

No way will the deal cut $10M off his cap hit. Vernons cap hit in year 1 was 12 million, JPP is currently at 17 million. So even if JPP got less than Vernon(doubtful), it's not going to be $10M less in year 1.
Keith  
WillVAB : 3/17/2017 11:46 am : link
True, but JPP and his agent also know there's a good chance they'll never see the money on a backloaded contract -- which means they would never sign such a deal.
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