Drop JT Thomas, maybe we can bring back Hankins/Robinson. That should be it for significant moves until the draft I think, maybe fill in some depth here and there (or replace Hank or a LB if we don't re-sign).
I think Reese is good, not Acorsi, but good. I think he tried too hard to get value and "huge upside" people before. Now he's sticking to known quantities.
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The Giants and Jason Pierre-Paul have agreed to a 4-year deal expected to be about $17M/year with about $54M guaranteed, per @AdamSchefter.
Long-term deal for Jason Pierre-Paul will surely reduce his 2017 cap hit and open up space for Giants to do more free-agent work. They still want DT Johnathan Hankins back but have not been willing/able to meet his price. It's possible this changes that, though I wouldn't assume it automatically does.
if he is still making 17 mill per? This just increases our risk. Unless it's backloaded.. we desperately needed the cap space to get Hankins back (and Robinson.)
seems legit!!
Great news!!! Now lets get Robinson and Hankins back. Link - ( New Window )
Agree. Re-sign both of them and let's move on to the draft. Or re-sign Robinson and use the Hankins $ to go ahead and extend somebody who's deal is ending next year.
Actually made him money! I think he made more by getting this contract plus the last two years than he would have if he signed the original (60 million?) deal that was on the table before his accident.
Actually made him money! I think he made more by getting this contract plus the last two years than he would have if he signed the original (60 million?) deal that was on the table before his accident.
For him to work as hard as he did and come back the way he did, he will have earned every penny IMO. The amount of BBI'ers, reporters, and even professional scouts who completely wrote him off after that accident was astounding. He proved [almost] everyone wrong. Happy for him.
if he is still making 17 mill per? This just increases our risk. Unless it's backloaded.. we desperately needed the cap space to get Hankins back (and Robinson.)
Don't think either are coming back actually.
Hankins asking price is too high and the Giants probably want a real three tech DT anyway.
I like Robinson, but you can find LBs that can cover in the draft. Also, this class is loaded at safety. Drafting another one allows you to put Collins in the box more or at LB in the nickel package.
vehicle he can get himself to the offices with and sign that fucker pronto. I like JPP, but that's about as much money as one guy can make given the circumstances.
they've reached an agreement, but he hasn't formally signed the contract. OTOH, why would he even get on Twitter and make such a statement if that was true?
The guaranteed money alone is $13.5M per year if true... how low can his base salary possibly be in the first 2-3 years... under $1M?... then inflate the final number to like $30M, and essentially 3 year deal?
The guaranteed money alone is $13.5M per year if true... how low can his base salary possibly be in the first 2-3 years... under $1M?... then inflate the final number to like $30M, and essentially 3 year deal?
Guaranteed doesn't mean signing bonus, they are different. They guaranteed his salary for a portion of it.
That can't be real, right? Eli, OV, JPP would be consuming a pretty high % of the cap.
Agreed. Part of the reason for a new deal was to lower his cap number for this year, which is $17M on the FT. This deal apparently pays him $17M this year, so it wouldn't free up any more cap space.
Here's hoping it isn't true. That contract would be - in my humble opinion - a big mistake.
How can it be a big mistake? What were you hoping to get a premier DE for? MAYBE $1-2mm less per year? And he's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, proved he can be elite in this defensive system, and it seems to only be guaranteed for the first 3 years. This signing was a must and even if we overpay by a little there is simply no way you can call this a big mistake!
Its important to note that this is just a reported deal, though, because JPP himself says he has not signed anything.
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Jason Pierre-Paul ✔ @UDWJPP
What the heck is people talking about I ain't sign nothing.
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Jason Pierre-Paul ✔ @UDWJPP
That's New York media for yah!! They always want the story first and they got it wrong.
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Here's hoping it isn't true. That contract would be - in my humble opinion - a big mistake.
How can it be a big mistake? What were you hoping to get a premier DE for? MAYBE $1-2mm less per year? And he's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, proved he can be elite in this defensive system, and it seems to only be guaranteed for the first 3 years. This signing was a must and even if we overpay by a little there is simply no way you can call this a big mistake!
That's not over paying by a little. I'd rather just give him the $17M tag on a 1 year deal.
Art StapletonVerified account @art_stapleton 45s46 seconds ago
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#Giants and JPP have agreement. Confident in that.
He has not signed contract yet.
I expect @UDWJPP responding to those saying he "signed"
Here's hoping it isn't true. That contract would be - in my humble opinion - a big mistake.
How can it be a big mistake? What were you hoping to get a premier DE for? MAYBE $1-2mm less per year? And he's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, proved he can be elite in this defensive system, and it seems to only be guaranteed for the first 3 years. This signing was a must and even if we overpay by a little there is simply no way you can call this a big mistake!
That's not over paying by a little. I'd rather just give him the $17M tag on a 1 year deal.
And then go through this entire dance (and owe him even more money) next year? That would be very shortsighted.
RE: You can easily call that much guaranteed money, if it's true, a
mistake given JPP's health history. It's hardly an out there claim.
People constantly say we're not in win-now mode to defend other moves. If not in win-now mode, you don't lock yourself into that for this player.
Looking at Eli's age and trajectory and based on every move we've made this offseason, it's obvious to anyone with a brain that we're in win now mode. Not really a question.
Here's hoping it isn't true. That contract would be - in my humble opinion - a big mistake.
How can it be a big mistake? What were you hoping to get a premier DE for? MAYBE $1-2mm less per year? And he's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, proved he can be elite in this defensive system, and it seems to only be guaranteed for the first 3 years. This signing was a must and even if we overpay by a little there is simply no way you can call this a big mistake!
That's not over paying by a little. I'd rather just give him the $17M tag on a 1 year deal.
Yeah I don't get it, just keep him on the one year deal, spend the year trying to get a longterm one. We have other avenues to free up money if needed
Here's hoping it isn't true. That contract would be - in my humble opinion - a big mistake.
How can it be a big mistake? What were you hoping to get a premier DE for? MAYBE $1-2mm less per year? And he's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, proved he can be elite in this defensive system, and it seems to only be guaranteed for the first 3 years. This signing was a must and even if we overpay by a little there is simply no way you can call this a big mistake!
That's not over paying by a little. I'd rather just give him the $17M tag on a 1 year deal.
And then go through this entire dance (and owe him even more money) next year? That would be very shortsighted.
Listen, I like JPP and I hope it works out. But there's a big difference in guaranteeing a player with legit health issues $54M over $17M. Would we end up going through this dance again? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe after 1 more season, we realize his value isn't $17M a season anymore (I don't even think it is now) and we use that $34M we saved in 2018 and 2019 towards areas of need. That's ALOT of money!
Is saying the numbers that are out there aren't accurate. Plus everybody needs to stop looking at the 17 million a year number. It's fake. Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
RE: RE: You can easily call that much guaranteed money, if it's true, a
mistake given JPP's health history. It's hardly an out there claim.
People constantly say we're not in win-now mode to defend other moves. If not in win-now mode, you don't lock yourself into that for this player.
Looking at Eli's age and trajectory and based on every move we've made this offseason, it's obvious to anyone with a brain that we're in win now mode. Not really a question.
Look at the OL and seriously tell yourself that again. No clear win now team is starting the dreck we are at three spots, with a QB with a shot internal clock.
If anything, the Giants are in purgatory, neither win-now nor long term building, which makes giving JPP that much guaranteed even more suspect (and I say that as someone who wanted him back).
I think where we disagree is on JPP's worth today. I think he proved he's still an elite DE in this league (even with 7 fingers) and that's just what elite DE's command.
Is saying the numbers that are out there aren't accurate. Plus everybody needs to stop looking at the 17 million a year number. It's fake. Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
You keep saying that
Quote:
Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
I don't understand what you are saying.
Non-guaranteed salary/bonus does count against the cap when they are earned. The only time that non-guaranteed is not counted against the cap is if the player is released and has yet to be paid.
Now if you are referring to the last year or two of a multi year contract of a soon to be released player I'd agree with you. But if JPP has non-guaranteed salary in the first two years of the contract your statement is wrong. That money will count against the cap if he is on the team.
Is saying the numbers that are out there aren't accurate. Plus everybody needs to stop looking at the 17 million a year number. It's fake. Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
The guaranteed amount matters a lot, but you have to look at the entire structure
The guaranteed money alone is $13.5M per year if true... how low can his base salary possibly be in the first 2-3 years... under $1M?... then inflate the final number to like $30M, and essentially 3 year deal?
Guaranteed doesn't mean signing bonus, they are different. They guaranteed his salary for a portion of it.
Signing bonus is part of the guaranteed amount.
For example if the the signing bonus is 25mm then the remaining guarantees are 29mm (assuming 54mm guaranteed)
If the contract is 4 year at 54 mil and 35 guaranteed, that is bad enough, but acceptable, 17 mil with all of it guaranteed is a contract that the Giants would be out of their fucking minds to offer and I don't think they are out of their minds.
Of him in a dr office with his agent. Perhaps getting a physical prior to signing. Also was in Jamaica yesterday and flew back to NY early this AM, and based of his snaps he wasn't too pleased to have left his vacation.
are not realistic about where this team is right now.
You're looking at probably a (tops) 3 year window with Eli right now.
With this move they have effectively locked up all major players on the defensive side of the football through that window.
Let JPP walk and you are then trying to replace arguably the top 2 way DE in the league. Easier said than done, and everyone knows the value the Giants place on this position anyway. They don't let top DEs in their prime leave.
This team is right there, the goal now is to string together playoff appearances and hopefully let Eli do his thing when he gets there.
Even if 54M is accurate, which i am hesitant that is 13.5M guaranteed per year. If you take 30 for a SB that is 7.5M per year. That leaves 24M. You give him roster bonus totaling 4 (1 per year). that leaves you salary.
If you structure 4M in 17 and 11M in 2018 that gets you to 42M.
You do the same verbiage as Vernon. 11M guaranteed on 3rd day of 2019.
It saves money in 17, the 18 number is manageable and you then get to 2019
JPP gets more guaranteed money than Vernon. Righteous as far as I'm concerned. The league knows the value of the guy. The Cowboys were hoping they wouldn't have to face him this season, at least as a Giant.
Can't fault Reese. He got it done , paying what needed to be paid. He will have a leather noose tightening around his sacks as he begins deliberations for '18 , but right now, it's '17 that matters.
So here is the scorecard:
QB
RB
WR +
TE +
OL
DL -
LB -
DB
SP -
Minus grades at D-Line & LB presuming loss of Hankins & Robinson, respectively. Are they better? That's for you to decide .
Rotoworld quotes those numbers to Schefter as well, but I never saw any tweets or what not from Schefter to back the numbers up, unless he mentioned it on air. I'd be skeptical about any JPP news coming from Schefter after their history, and with Duggan hedging the numbers that were reported and no one else really running with that number, I think it very well may be incorrect.
Would love it if he signed but those aren't the numbers.
Is saying the numbers that are out there aren't accurate. Plus everybody needs to stop looking at the 17 million a year number. It's fake. Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
Yet again, you're wrong. The non-guaranteed matters also as long as he's on the roster and under contract. I don't know why you seem to think that players only get paid the guaranteed portion.
@art_stapleton
Hearing Jason Pierre-Paul is expected at #Giants facility at some point today, so, again, agreement is in place. Anticipated signing to come
Is saying the numbers that are out there aren't accurate. Plus everybody needs to stop looking at the 17 million a year number. It's fake. Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
Yet again, you're wrong. The non-guaranteed matters also as long as he's on the roster and under contract. I don't know why you seem to think that players only get paid the guaranteed portion.
Because he's probably never going to see the end of the contract. Just like most free agent signings in the NFL.
Tom RockVerified account @TomRock_Newsday 22s22 seconds ago
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
Technically true, but also some lousy injury luck with David Wilson and Kenny Phillips in there.
If you look through the list, you can't really point to any mistakes on not re-signing guys, and it's virtually all due to injury:
Wilson, Amukamara, Nicks, Phillips, and Ross are the players in question.
And based on the beat reporters', it sounds like that percentage is about to be changed significantly: Pugh, Beckham, and Apple all seem to be ripe for second contracts (unless they too fall the way of ill-health). Flowers is still in limbo.
Is saying the numbers that are out there aren't accurate. Plus everybody needs to stop looking at the 17 million a year number. It's fake. Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
Yet again, you're wrong. The non-guaranteed matters also as long as he's on the roster and under contract. I don't know why you seem to think that players only get paid the guaranteed portion.
Because he's probably never going to see the end of the contract. Just like most free agent signings in the NFL.
Not to mention bonuses & incentives. We have no clue how that's broken down. Everytime we first see a contract it looks huge. Then the actual numbers come out and it isn't nearly as big as originally thought.
Tom RockVerified account @TomRock_Newsday 22s22 seconds ago
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
Technically true, but also some lousy injury luck with David Wilson and Kenny Phillips in there.
If you look through the list, you can't really point to any mistakes on not re-signing guys, and it's virtually all due to injury:
Wilson, Amukamara, Nicks, Phillips, and Ross are the players in question.
And based on the beat reporters', it sounds like that percentage is about to be changed significantly: Pugh, Beckham, and Apple all seem to be ripe for second contracts (unless they too fall the way of ill-health). Flowers is still in limbo.
Ross just wasn't that good IMO. He was an ok pick. Steve Smith wasn't a first, but still, he should have been a Giant for a long time.
Has made some bad draft picks, especially in the later rounds, but everyone does, the problem recently of coarse is the offensive line, and with Eli as the franchise QB and him getting older now, it is imperative to have a good offensive line.
But overall Reese has done a decent job, the biggest problem overall has been injuries, no doubt there has been too much bad luck. But we have to hope that the luck has changed and hope that Flowers works hard, which I doubt he has, and that Fluker works his ass off, if that happens and Pugh and Richburg improve a little and stay healthy, who knows, maybe we can make it 3 for 3 against the pats, we are the only ones that seem to be capable of beating them.
isn't an idiot. He's going to protect himself and the organization. My guess is that they have some kind of "out" after two or maybe three years, just as Eli's career is ending. This is done to give us one final chance at a SB with these players before their careers end, and to not undue the $200M we spent on defense last year.
Hope he can hold up these next 4 years. I am happy it's 4 years and not a day more than that, at least. Still, alot of money. Hope he can get home alittle more often next season.
Didn't Raanan recently say they weren't close on a deal?
Well, maybe season ticket holders will have to pay some.
It's not even the owners' money, at least not out of pocket. The Giants annual revenue is almost a half a billion dollars and under two hundred thousand goes to the cost of players. The owners are already wealthy and they want to win just as much as the fans.
Besides JPP's sacks, it's also his batted down passes and the help that Vernon, on the other side of the line, gets because they can't double both ends. Vernon had only a half a sack in the last five games of the season without JPP, including Green Bay.
It's a gamble that his health and productivity stay high, but you gamble on all the players. If you want to stop Brady and Rodgers, you have to have pressure on them. If you want to stop Dak and Zeke, and win at least one against the 'Boys, you have to have players equally good lined up against them.
I'm already excited about seeing this defense back on the field.
Is saying the numbers that are out there aren't accurate. Plus everybody needs to stop looking at the 17 million a year number. It's fake. Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
Yet again, you're wrong. The non-guaranteed matters also as long as he's on the roster and under contract. I don't know why you seem to think that players only get paid the guaranteed portion.
Because he's probably never going to see the end of the contract. Just like most free agent signings in the NFL.
Not to mention bonuses & incentives. We have no clue how that's broken down. Everytime we first see a contract it looks huge. Then the actual numbers come out and it isn't nearly as big as originally thought.
Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. It's not just the guaranteed dollars that matter. Milton did a good job of detailing how the first three years of a large multiyear contract are the most important thing, much more than the guaranteed/non-guaranteed breakdown.
Well, maybe season ticket holders will have to pay some.
It's not even the owners' money, at least not out of pocket. The Giants annual revenue is almost a half a billion dollars and under two hundred thousand goes to the cost of players. The owners are already wealthy and they want to win just as much as the fans.
Besides JPP's sacks, it's also his batted down passes and the help that Vernon, on the other side of the line, gets because they can't double both ends. Vernon had only a half a sack in the last five games of the season without JPP, including Green Bay.
It's a gamble that his health and productivity stay high, but you gamble on all the players. If you want to stop Brady and Rodgers, you have to have pressure on them. If you want to stop Dak and Zeke, and win at least one against the 'Boys, you have to have players equally good lined up against them.
I'm already excited about seeing this defense back on the field.
You're completely missing the point as to why fans sometimes are unhappy with contracts given to players. Completely missing the point.
Highly doubtful. Expect something closer to $13-14mm freeing up around $3-4mm.
It's Ian Rapoport.
Ian Rapoport from NFL Network
I believe it's Ian Rapaport, so it should be legit.
Time for Hankins to come home.
Link - ( New Window )
Great news!
Great news!!! Now lets get Robinson and Hankins back.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
I anticipate a cap hit around $10 million, freeing up $7 million.
Highly doubtful. Expect something closer to $13-14mm freeing up around $3-4mm.
spike : 11:22 am : link : reply
Is finally awake!''
Holy shit he got PAID
Happy St. Patty's day to JPP!!!
Great news!
An excessively tame celebration, ideally.
they've decided to go all in for the last few seasons of Eli Manning's career.
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The Giants and Jason Pierre-Paul have agreed to a 4-year deal expected to be about $17M/year with about $54M guaranteed, per @AdamSchefter.
Dan Graziano, ESPN Staff Writer
really. how would a $17 MM cap hit for 4 years be better than for 1 year?
But let's see the details before coming to any conclusions
Quote:
Time to go celebrate
Great news!
An excessively tame celebration, ideally.
Indeed.
I would imagine JPP feels a lot of satisfaction right now and has learned a lot from the past.
Does this re-cement me as a certified asshat in addition to being a certified asshole?
Great news!!! Now lets get Robinson and Hankins back. Link - ( New Window )
Agree. Re-sign both of them and let's move on to the draft. Or re-sign Robinson and use the Hankins $ to go ahead and extend somebody who's deal is ending next year.
Does this re-cement me as a certified asshat in addition to being a certified asshole?
I'm sure someone will toss your salad
Thanks, I didn't want to be that guy. I respect that they're going all in for Eli's last couple of years though.
For him to work as hard as he did and come back the way he did, he will have earned every penny IMO. The amount of BBI'ers, reporters, and even professional scouts who completely wrote him off after that accident was astounding. He proved [almost] everyone wrong. Happy for him.
@UDWJPP
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What the heck is people talking about I ain't sign nothing.
link - wtf? - ( New Window )
Don't think either are coming back actually.
Hankins asking price is too high and the Giants probably want a real three tech DT anyway.
I like Robinson, but you can find LBs that can cover in the draft. Also, this class is loaded at safety. Drafting another one allows you to put Collins in the box more or at LB in the nickel package.
That's New York media for yah!! They always want the story first and they got it wrong.
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That's New York media for yah!! They always want the story first and they got it wrong.
Does this re-cement me as a certified asshat in addition to being a certified asshole?
I'd say you're certifiable.
Dunno, but 'ain't signed nothing' doesn't seem to imply a problem with terms...
The guaranteed money alone is $13.5M per year if true... how low can his base salary possibly be in the first 2-3 years... under $1M?... then inflate the final number to like $30M, and essentially 3 year deal?
The guaranteed money alone is $13.5M per year if true... how low can his base salary possibly be in the first 2-3 years... under $1M?... then inflate the final number to like $30M, and essentially 3 year deal?
Guaranteed doesn't mean signing bonus, they are different. They guaranteed his salary for a portion of it.
Agreed. Part of the reason for a new deal was to lower his cap number for this year, which is $17M on the FT. This deal apparently pays him $17M this year, so it wouldn't free up any more cap space.
How can it be a big mistake? What were you hoping to get a premier DE for? MAYBE $1-2mm less per year? And he's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, proved he can be elite in this defensive system, and it seems to only be guaranteed for the first 3 years. This signing was a must and even if we overpay by a little there is simply no way you can call this a big mistake!
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Jason Pierre-Paul ✔ @UDWJPP
What the heck is people talking about I ain't sign nothing.
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Jason Pierre-Paul ✔ @UDWJPP
That's New York media for yah!! They always want the story first and they got it wrong.
11:45 AM - 17 Mar 2017
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Quote:
Here's hoping it isn't true. That contract would be - in my humble opinion - a big mistake.
How can it be a big mistake? What were you hoping to get a premier DE for? MAYBE $1-2mm less per year? And he's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, proved he can be elite in this defensive system, and it seems to only be guaranteed for the first 3 years. This signing was a must and even if we overpay by a little there is simply no way you can call this a big mistake!
That's not over paying by a little. I'd rather just give him the $17M tag on a 1 year deal.
over/under on days until JPP throws his ass in the Hot Tub
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#Giants and JPP have agreement. Confident in that.
He has not signed contract yet.
I expect @UDWJPP responding to those saying he "signed"
What is the SB, what salary is guaranteed, when is the salary guaranteed.
That's New York media for yah!! They always want the story first and they got it wrong."
People constantly say we're not in win-now mode to defend other moves. If not in win-now mode, you don't lock yourself into that for this player.
Quote:
In comment 13396560 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
Here's hoping it isn't true. That contract would be - in my humble opinion - a big mistake.
How can it be a big mistake? What were you hoping to get a premier DE for? MAYBE $1-2mm less per year? And he's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, proved he can be elite in this defensive system, and it seems to only be guaranteed for the first 3 years. This signing was a must and even if we overpay by a little there is simply no way you can call this a big mistake!
That's not over paying by a little. I'd rather just give him the $17M tag on a 1 year deal.
And then go through this entire dance (and owe him even more money) next year? That would be very shortsighted.
People constantly say we're not in win-now mode to defend other moves. If not in win-now mode, you don't lock yourself into that for this player.
Looking at Eli's age and trajectory and based on every move we've made this offseason, it's obvious to anyone with a brain that we're in win now mode. Not really a question.
Quote:
In comment 13396560 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
Here's hoping it isn't true. That contract would be - in my humble opinion - a big mistake.
How can it be a big mistake? What were you hoping to get a premier DE for? MAYBE $1-2mm less per year? And he's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, proved he can be elite in this defensive system, and it seems to only be guaranteed for the first 3 years. This signing was a must and even if we overpay by a little there is simply no way you can call this a big mistake!
That's not over paying by a little. I'd rather just give him the $17M tag on a 1 year deal.
Yeah I don't get it, just keep him on the one year deal, spend the year trying to get a longterm one. We have other avenues to free up money if needed
Now I hear we are going to sign Geno... Say it isn't so Joe!!
JR has lost his mind if the Geno signing is true
The gtd money is a TON for a 4 year deal, you can't deny that and I'm somoene that really wnated JPP signed.
Quote:
In comment 13396579 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 13396560 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
Here's hoping it isn't true. That contract would be - in my humble opinion - a big mistake.
How can it be a big mistake? What were you hoping to get a premier DE for? MAYBE $1-2mm less per year? And he's 28 years old, in the prime of his career, proved he can be elite in this defensive system, and it seems to only be guaranteed for the first 3 years. This signing was a must and even if we overpay by a little there is simply no way you can call this a big mistake!
That's not over paying by a little. I'd rather just give him the $17M tag on a 1 year deal.
And then go through this entire dance (and owe him even more money) next year? That would be very shortsighted.
Listen, I like JPP and I hope it works out. But there's a big difference in guaranteeing a player with legit health issues $54M over $17M. Would we end up going through this dance again? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe after 1 more season, we realize his value isn't $17M a season anymore (I don't even think it is now) and we use that $34M we saved in 2018 and 2019 towards areas of need. That's ALOT of money!
Quote:
mistake given JPP's health history. It's hardly an out there claim.
People constantly say we're not in win-now mode to defend other moves. If not in win-now mode, you don't lock yourself into that for this player.
Looking at Eli's age and trajectory and based on every move we've made this offseason, it's obvious to anyone with a brain that we're in win now mode. Not really a question.
Look at the OL and seriously tell yourself that again. No clear win now team is starting the dreck we are at three spots, with a QB with a shot internal clock.
If anything, the Giants are in purgatory, neither win-now nor long term building, which makes giving JPP that much guaranteed even more suspect (and I say that as someone who wanted him back).
When all the contract details come out, it'll be easier to analyze.
Agree 100%.
You keep saying that
Non-guaranteed salary/bonus does count against the cap when they are earned. The only time that non-guaranteed is not counted against the cap is if the player is released and has yet to be paid.
Now if you are referring to the last year or two of a multi year contract of a soon to be released player I'd agree with you. But if JPP has non-guaranteed salary in the first two years of the contract your statement is wrong. That money will count against the cap if he is on the team.
The guaranteed amount matters a lot, but you have to look at the entire structure
People constantly say we're not in win-now mode...
...were wrong.
Now we wait and see the actual contract numbers so we can assess the impact on this years cap.
Quote:
was hoping it'd be lower than that.
The guaranteed money alone is $13.5M per year if true... how low can his base salary possibly be in the first 2-3 years... under $1M?... then inflate the final number to like $30M, and essentially 3 year deal?
Guaranteed doesn't mean signing bonus, they are different. They guaranteed his salary for a portion of it.
Signing bonus is part of the guaranteed amount.
For example if the the signing bonus is 25mm then the remaining guarantees are 29mm (assuming 54mm guaranteed)
I guess the JPP cap hit could come in around that number. I hope not.
You're looking at probably a (tops) 3 year window with Eli right now.
With this move they have effectively locked up all major players on the defensive side of the football through that window.
Let JPP walk and you are then trying to replace arguably the top 2 way DE in the league. Easier said than done, and everyone knows the value the Giants place on this position anyway. They don't let top DEs in their prime leave.
This team is right there, the goal now is to string together playoff appearances and hopefully let Eli do his thing when he gets there.
If you structure 4M in 17 and 11M in 2018 that gets you to 42M.
You do the same verbiage as Vernon. 11M guaranteed on 3rd day of 2019.
It saves money in 17, the 18 number is manageable and you then get to 2019
It is not that hard
Can't fault Reese. He got it done , paying what needed to be paid. He will have a leather noose tightening around his sacks as he begins deliberations for '18 , but right now, it's '17 that matters.
So here is the scorecard:
QB
RB
WR +
TE +
OL
DL -
LB -
DB
SP -
Minus grades at D-Line & LB presuming loss of Hankins & Robinson, respectively. Are they better? That's for you to decide .
Does this re-cement me as a certified asshat in addition to being a certified asshole?
I think you'll have to ask all the asshole asshole-certifiers at BBI.
Yup. NYG are trying to push for one more SB before the Eli window closes. I think it's obvious. We're all in right now.
...but sometimes ya gotta do it.
And sometimes ya gotta say good-bye to old friends.
Johnathan Hankins... so long it's been good to know you.
That's New York media for yah!! They always want the story first and they got it wrong.
No one has tweeted that out.
No one has tweeted that out.
Espns mobile app says that is per Schefter
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are folks seeing the $54M ($17M per year) figure?
No one has tweeted that out.
Espns mobile app says that is per Schefter
which explains the snapchat of JPP at the doctor's office with his agent.
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are folks seeing the $54M ($17M per year) figure?
No one has tweeted that out.
Espns mobile app says that is per Schefter
Rotoworld quotes those numbers to Schefter as well, but I never saw any tweets or what not from Schefter to back the numbers up, unless he mentioned it on air. I'd be skeptical about any JPP news coming from Schefter after their history, and with Duggan hedging the numbers that were reported and no one else really running with that number, I think it very well may be incorrect.
Yet again, you're wrong. The non-guaranteed matters also as long as he's on the roster and under contract. I don't know why you seem to think that players only get paid the guaranteed portion.
Link - ( New Window )
Mobile app had the 17 per and 54 gtd earlier. I didnt screenshot it tho
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Is not reporting any figures, only saying what we already heard.
Mobile app had the 17 per and 54 gtd earlier. I didnt screenshot it tho
I was seeing the same thing earlier.
Hearing Jason Pierre-Paul is expected at #Giants facility at some point today, so, again, agreement is in place. Anticipated signing to come
No risk with Geno. He could be as temporary as Josh Freeman was.
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
Thanks Slade. Have you heard if they are going to focus on any particular FA now that they cleared some cap room>
Hearing Jason Pierre-Paul is expected at #Giants facility at some point today, so, again, agreement is in place. Anticipated signing to come
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
That is wild, a lot of guys unlucky with injuries, but still.
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
Technically true, but also some lousy injury luck with David Wilson and Kenny Phillips in there.
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
It's so messed up that our 1st guy to get a 2nd long term deal blew up his hand. We had unusually shitty luck.
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Tom RockVerified account @TomRock_Newsday 22s22 seconds ago
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
Technically true, but also some lousy injury luck with David Wilson and Kenny Phillips in there.
And Nicks
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Is saying the numbers that are out there aren't accurate. Plus everybody needs to stop looking at the 17 million a year number. It's fake. Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
Yet again, you're wrong. The non-guaranteed matters also as long as he's on the roster and under contract. I don't know why you seem to think that players only get paid the guaranteed portion.
Because he's probably never going to see the end of the contract. Just like most free agent signings in the NFL.
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Tom RockVerified account @TomRock_Newsday 22s22 seconds ago
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
Technically true, but also some lousy injury luck with David Wilson and Kenny Phillips in there.
If you look through the list, you can't really point to any mistakes on not re-signing guys, and it's virtually all due to injury:
Wilson, Amukamara, Nicks, Phillips, and Ross are the players in question.
And based on the beat reporters', it sounds like that percentage is about to be changed significantly: Pugh, Beckham, and Apple all seem to be ripe for second contracts (unless they too fall the way of ill-health). Flowers is still in limbo.
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In comment 13396627 Big Rick in FL said:
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Is saying the numbers that are out there aren't accurate. Plus everybody needs to stop looking at the 17 million a year number. It's fake. Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
Yet again, you're wrong. The non-guaranteed matters also as long as he's on the roster and under contract. I don't know why you seem to think that players only get paid the guaranteed portion.
Because he's probably never going to see the end of the contract. Just like most free agent signings in the NFL.
Not to mention bonuses & incentives. We have no clue how that's broken down. Everytime we first see a contract it looks huge. Then the actual numbers come out and it isn't nearly as big as originally thought.
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
You think that factor has to weigh a bit on Reese's decision to stay committed to him over the years.
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In comment 13396888 Eric from BBI said:
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Tom RockVerified account @TomRock_Newsday 22s22 seconds ago
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
Technically true, but also some lousy injury luck with David Wilson and Kenny Phillips in there.
If you look through the list, you can't really point to any mistakes on not re-signing guys, and it's virtually all due to injury:
Wilson, Amukamara, Nicks, Phillips, and Ross are the players in question.
And based on the beat reporters', it sounds like that percentage is about to be changed significantly: Pugh, Beckham, and Apple all seem to be ripe for second contracts (unless they too fall the way of ill-health). Flowers is still in limbo.
Ross just wasn't that good IMO. He was an ok pick. Steve Smith wasn't a first, but still, he should have been a Giant for a long time.
But overall Reese has done a decent job, the biggest problem overall has been injuries, no doubt there has been too much bad luck. But we have to hope that the luck has changed and hope that Flowers works hard, which I doubt he has, and that Fluker works his ass off, if that happens and Pugh and Richburg improve a little and stay healthy, who knows, maybe we can make it 3 for 3 against the pats, we are the only ones that seem to be capable of beating them.
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Tom RockVerified account @TomRock_Newsday 22s22 seconds ago
JPP is the first 1st round pick by GM Jerry Reese to get a second long-term deal with the team.
Technically true, but also some lousy injury luck with David Wilson and Kenny Phillips in there.
Hakeem nicks and prince anukamara as well.
Yeah. He also said BMarsh wouldn't be signed here.
I think that was over a week ago.
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He was 100% off then...
Yeah. He also said BMarsh wouldn't be signed here.
He's been nailing it!
It's not even the owners' money, at least not out of pocket. The Giants annual revenue is almost a half a billion dollars and under two hundred thousand goes to the cost of players. The owners are already wealthy and they want to win just as much as the fans.
Besides JPP's sacks, it's also his batted down passes and the help that Vernon, on the other side of the line, gets because they can't double both ends. Vernon had only a half a sack in the last five games of the season without JPP, including Green Bay.
It's a gamble that his health and productivity stay high, but you gamble on all the players. If you want to stop Brady and Rodgers, you have to have pressure on them. If you want to stop Dak and Zeke, and win at least one against the 'Boys, you have to have players equally good lined up against them.
I'm already excited about seeing this defense back on the field.
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In comment 13396823 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13396627 Big Rick in FL said:
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Is saying the numbers that are out there aren't accurate. Plus everybody needs to stop looking at the 17 million a year number. It's fake. Guaranteed money is the only thing that matters.
Yet again, you're wrong. The non-guaranteed matters also as long as he's on the roster and under contract. I don't know why you seem to think that players only get paid the guaranteed portion.
Because he's probably never going to see the end of the contract. Just like most free agent signings in the NFL.
Not to mention bonuses & incentives. We have no clue how that's broken down. Everytime we first see a contract it looks huge. Then the actual numbers come out and it isn't nearly as big as originally thought.
Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. It's not just the guaranteed dollars that matter. Milton did a good job of detailing how the first three years of a large multiyear contract are the most important thing, much more than the guaranteed/non-guaranteed breakdown.
It's not even the owners' money, at least not out of pocket. The Giants annual revenue is almost a half a billion dollars and under two hundred thousand goes to the cost of players. The owners are already wealthy and they want to win just as much as the fans.
Besides JPP's sacks, it's also his batted down passes and the help that Vernon, on the other side of the line, gets because they can't double both ends. Vernon had only a half a sack in the last five games of the season without JPP, including Green Bay.
It's a gamble that his health and productivity stay high, but you gamble on all the players. If you want to stop Brady and Rodgers, you have to have pressure on them. If you want to stop Dak and Zeke, and win at least one against the 'Boys, you have to have players equally good lined up against them.
I'm already excited about seeing this defense back on the field.
You're completely missing the point as to why fans sometimes are unhappy with contracts given to players. Completely missing the point.