Adam Schefter& #8207;Verified account @AdamSchefter 12s12 seconds ago
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Giants expected to sign former Jets QB Geno Smith, per @JordanRaanan and me. Smith and Brandon Marshall teammates again.
I'm fine with it. I've never sweated the Giants backup QB position, except when they wasted a fourth rounder on Nassib.
It was a worthwhile gamble for a QB prospect that they had a 2nd round grade on. It didn't pay dividends, but that's life. Sometimes you get Ryan Nassib when you already have Eli Manning, other times you get Tom Brady when you already have Drew Bledsoe.
off QB as a draft possibility (in any round). Smith is young enough they can try and develop for a year.Decide in 2018 if a young QB drafted is better or wait a little longer.
I agree...this is a safety net move to see if Smith really is a bust. Now, if Watson falls to us in, say, the 3rd round, I think they would jump on it. Overall, a low risk/high reward maneuver.
the way to look at it I suppose is if Eli gets hurt, we all suspected the Giants are screwed. Now we know they are screwed with Geno. So if Eli goes down, might as well have a 2015 Dallas tank job with Brandon Weeden and be so bad in the 2018 NFL Draft that they have a real chance to land a franchise QB again.
the way to look at it I suppose is if Eli gets hurt, we all suspected the Giants are screwed. Now we know they are screwed with Geno. So if Eli goes down, might as well have a 2015 Dallas tank job with Brandon Weeden and be so bad in the 2018 NFL Draft that they have a real chance to land a franchise QB again.
That's the case with any backup QB that isn't being paid good money, which is why I don't care if it's Smith so long as he's cheap. If we paid good money for that stiff I'm going to fully endorse the angry mob with pitchforks that goes after Reese.
This isn't a bad signing for a player who will likely never see the field. And if he does, whether your hatred for the Jets allows you to see it or not - can win a game or two for us.
the way to look at it I suppose is if Eli gets hurt, we all suspected the Giants are screwed. Now we know they are screwed with Geno. So if Eli goes down, might as well have a 2015 Dallas tank job with Brandon Weeden and be so bad in the 2018 NFL Draft that they have a real chance to land a franchise QB again.
I'd say your chances are better to win a game or two with Smith who has 30 starts under his belt than somebody who's never seen action in a regular season game.
I'd hate to lose out on a comp pick because he was included in the calculations.
Comp pick formula is heavy on playing time and (I think) evaluates salary compensation relative to your position. So signing a slot DB for $5M that sees 60% of your snaps might net the former team a 4th/5th round comp pick, but signing a backup QB for $5M that doesn't take a snap isn't likely to net them anything.
the way to look at it I suppose is if Eli gets hurt, we all suspected the Giants are screwed. Now we know they are screwed with Geno. So if Eli goes down, might as well have a 2015 Dallas tank job with Brandon Weeden and be so bad in the 2018 NFL Draft that they have a real chance to land a franchise QB again.
I'd say your chances are better to win a game or two with Smith who has 30 starts under his belt than somebody who's never seen action in a regular season game.
That's not necessarily true. With a younger player with no film you have the element of surprise and might catch the D with something unexpected. With Geno, D's already know his strengths/weaknesses and can game plan accordingly.
That said, Josh Johnson doesn't necessarily fit the 'younger player' mold since he's played on half the NFL teams...
the way to look at it I suppose is if Eli gets hurt, we all suspected the Giants are screwed. Now we know they are screwed with Geno. So if Eli goes down, might as well have a 2015 Dallas tank job with Brandon Weeden and be so bad in the 2018 NFL Draft that they have a real chance to land a franchise QB again.
I'd say your chances are better to win a game or two with Smith who has 30 starts under his belt than somebody who's never seen action in a regular season game.
That's not necessarily true. With a younger player with no film you have the element of surprise and might catch the D with something unexpected. With Geno, D's already know his strengths/weaknesses and can game plan accordingly.
That said, Josh Johnson doesn't necessarily fit the 'younger player' mold since he's played on half the NFL teams...
nobody is game planning for your backup QB. And even if the element of "surprise" is worth anything...I'd say it's worth a lot less than actual experience playing the position in the NFL.
The cards were stacked against him for 2 reasons:1. Rex was his head coach and 2. He played for the Jets. He will improve with a better team knowing he is the backup QB.
Part of developing a QB is giving him an environment to thrive Â
and develop. I don't think the Jets was a good place for anybody to develop. He is a talented guy. What do we really lose here with this signing? He's better than Nassib by a mile.
And then he got hurt immediately. He only was allowed a short rope as a starter. As a 2nd round pick he was given two seasons as a starter, showed improvement but the team lost more, and so he was replaced by Fitzpatrick.
I like this signing. He's young and has potential.
But, for many BBIers, I guess we only should have gone out and signed Tom Brady...
The reward is a guy with some physical tools (size, arm strength, toughness) is able to figure out the rest of the position surrounded by an offensive-minded HC and a hall of fame level starter.
I think Geno's been unlucky. The Jets are terrible at developing QBs, the organization has been unstable, he hasn't had good leadership. And yeah, he was a dick and played badly when he got the chance.
I think there's a lot of luck in the career of NFL QBs. If the Jets or Browns had drafted Tom Brady instead of the Patriots, would he have become the guy we've seen? He wasn't a blue-chip prospect, he needed development, and he landed in just the right spot. He was lucky.
Some guys screw up their own careers, like Ryan Leaf, and Kerry Collins in Carolina, and Johnny Manziel. We all know those guys. On the other hand, I think we can all think of blue-chip prospects whose development got botched, or who ended up on lousy teams that hurt their development. David Carr was wrecked by all those sacks early in his career. Long ago, Jim Plunkett was a former #1 overall pick (by the Patriots) who was a reclamation project by the time he got to Oakland. Unlucky early, lucky late. Roethlisberger was luckier than Rivers. Phil Simms was unlucky early, both with injuries and Bill Parcells choosing Scott Brunner to start ahead of him. (One of the few truly boneheaded moves Parcells made.)
Now Geno moves from the mess that is the Jets to the Giants, where he has zero pressure and nobody is looking at him for leadership. He has Eli Manning to teach him work habits, how to break down film, etc. If things go well he might have a few years to understudy and get superbly prepared to be Eli's successor. He has a stable organization and a strong head coach who seems to be on the rise. The team is pretty good. There's a winning culture, even if the team hasn't had a lot of winning seasons since the last Super Bowl run.
This is Geno finally getting a little lucky. He has good physical tools. Can he truly master the position?
If he can't succeed with the Giants, he probably can't succeed, period. But if he's learned from his travails of the last few years, he could surprise us all.
And he creates some real defensive problems for you. If you get into the red zone, you must not only account for him, but you have to account for him with someone who has speed and agility
One of our red zone problems is that defenses do not have to account for Eli.
This is a good situation for Geno. Statistical odds are against him at this stage of his career, but it is hard to imagine a worse QB development structure than what he had with the Jets.
Geno's stat line for his first 866 NFL attempts... Â
...isn't all that different from Eli's. Smith's is better by many measures, especially if you include Manning's shitshow in the 2005 playoffs.
Do I want Geno Smith taking meaningful snaps at QB for the Giants? Hell no. But he's a 26-year-old quarterback with a fair amount of physical ability, plus some valuable game experience. Would you prefer Josh "Zero pass attempts since 2011" Johnson backing up our 35-year-old starter?
And he creates some real defensive problems for you. If you get into the red zone, you must not only account for him, but you have to account for him with someone who has speed and agility
One of our red zone problems is that defenses do not have to account for Eli.
This is a good situation for Geno. Statistical odds are against him at this stage of his career, but it is hard to imagine a worse QB development structure than what he had with the Jets.
The Jets are dysfunctional, and Geno tore an ACL, but he's had plenty of time to prove himself. The Jets also had a very good defense for several years. And yes, I'd much rather have Johnson than Smith. Several teams wanted Johnson last season as a backup IIRC. Nobody this year wants Smith.
Damontre Moore and Ryan Nassib - two of the worst back to back picks ever made by Reese that early in the draft. Shoulda went Jordan Reed / Landry Jones or something. I dont get the Geno signing.
...And yes, I'd much rather have Johnson than Smith. Several teams wanted Johnson last season as a backup IIRC. Nobody this year wants Smith.
It doesn't appear that many teams wanted Johnson last summer, judging by the one-year qualifying contract he signed with the Giants on September 5th. Maybe there was competition for his services when he signed with the Ravens, but I doubt it. He faced an uphill climb to unseat Mallett as their #2, so Baltimore was hardly an ideal destination. And by the time they cut him, a vet-min deal was his only option.
Really, we're debating the relative culinary merits of a plate of worms vs. a bowl of cockroaches. More evidence that the offseason is too long.
How is he at goalline sneaks?
I agree...this is a safety net move to see if Smith really is a bust. Now, if Watson falls to us in, say, the 3rd round, I think they would jump on it. Overall, a low risk/high reward maneuver.
That's the case with any backup QB that isn't being paid good money, which is why I don't care if it's Smith so long as he's cheap. If we paid good money for that stiff I'm going to fully endorse the angry mob with pitchforks that goes after Reese.
I'd say your chances are better to win a game or two with Smith who has 30 starts under his belt than somebody who's never seen action in a regular season game.
Even without him, doesn't JPP's contract factor in or does the formula discard players re-signing with the team? We haven't exactly lost much.
Comp pick formula is heavy on playing time and (I think) evaluates salary compensation relative to your position. So signing a slot DB for $5M that sees 60% of your snaps might net the former team a 4th/5th round comp pick, but signing a backup QB for $5M that doesn't take a snap isn't likely to net them anything.
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the way to look at it I suppose is if Eli gets hurt, we all suspected the Giants are screwed. Now we know they are screwed with Geno. So if Eli goes down, might as well have a 2015 Dallas tank job with Brandon Weeden and be so bad in the 2018 NFL Draft that they have a real chance to land a franchise QB again.
I'd say your chances are better to win a game or two with Smith who has 30 starts under his belt than somebody who's never seen action in a regular season game.
That's not necessarily true. With a younger player with no film you have the element of surprise and might catch the D with something unexpected. With Geno, D's already know his strengths/weaknesses and can game plan accordingly.
That said, Josh Johnson doesn't necessarily fit the 'younger player' mold since he's played on half the NFL teams...
Quote:
In comment 13396767 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
the way to look at it I suppose is if Eli gets hurt, we all suspected the Giants are screwed. Now we know they are screwed with Geno. So if Eli goes down, might as well have a 2015 Dallas tank job with Brandon Weeden and be so bad in the 2018 NFL Draft that they have a real chance to land a franchise QB again.
I'd say your chances are better to win a game or two with Smith who has 30 starts under his belt than somebody who's never seen action in a regular season game.
That's not necessarily true. With a younger player with no film you have the element of surprise and might catch the D with something unexpected. With Geno, D's already know his strengths/weaknesses and can game plan accordingly.
That said, Josh Johnson doesn't necessarily fit the 'younger player' mold since he's played on half the NFL teams...
nobody is game planning for your backup QB. And even if the element of "surprise" is worth anything...I'd say it's worth a lot less than actual experience playing the position in the NFL.
Torrag : 12:40 pm : link : reply
...so true.
It was a 4th AND a 6th.....
He can run. Apart from that he is a turnover machine with a bad attitude.
Please tell me this is a joke.
He can run based on what, exactly?
Look, this will probably spiral the thread out of control, but just because he's black doesn't mean he's a running QB.
I like this signing. He's young and has potential.
But, for many BBIers, I guess we only should have gone out and signed Tom Brady...
The reward is a guy with some physical tools (size, arm strength, toughness) is able to figure out the rest of the position surrounded by an offensive-minded HC and a hall of fame level starter.
I actually like the idea.
Hey, make a change of scenery is good for him..........
I think there's a lot of luck in the career of NFL QBs. If the Jets or Browns had drafted Tom Brady instead of the Patriots, would he have become the guy we've seen? He wasn't a blue-chip prospect, he needed development, and he landed in just the right spot. He was lucky.
Some guys screw up their own careers, like Ryan Leaf, and Kerry Collins in Carolina, and Johnny Manziel. We all know those guys. On the other hand, I think we can all think of blue-chip prospects whose development got botched, or who ended up on lousy teams that hurt their development. David Carr was wrecked by all those sacks early in his career. Long ago, Jim Plunkett was a former #1 overall pick (by the Patriots) who was a reclamation project by the time he got to Oakland. Unlucky early, lucky late. Roethlisberger was luckier than Rivers. Phil Simms was unlucky early, both with injuries and Bill Parcells choosing Scott Brunner to start ahead of him. (One of the few truly boneheaded moves Parcells made.)
Now Geno moves from the mess that is the Jets to the Giants, where he has zero pressure and nobody is looking at him for leadership. He has Eli Manning to teach him work habits, how to break down film, etc. If things go well he might have a few years to understudy and get superbly prepared to be Eli's successor. He has a stable organization and a strong head coach who seems to be on the rise. The team is pretty good. There's a winning culture, even if the team hasn't had a lot of winning seasons since the last Super Bowl run.
This is Geno finally getting a little lucky. He has good physical tools. Can he truly master the position?
If he can't succeed with the Giants, he probably can't succeed, period. But if he's learned from his travails of the last few years, he could surprise us all.
Yeah, great signing.
And he creates some real defensive problems for you. If you get into the red zone, you must not only account for him, but you have to account for him with someone who has speed and agility
One of our red zone problems is that defenses do not have to account for Eli.
This is a good situation for Geno. Statistical odds are against him at this stage of his career, but it is hard to imagine a worse QB development structure than what he had with the Jets.
Do I want Geno Smith taking meaningful snaps at QB for the Giants? Hell no. But he's a 26-year-old quarterback with a fair amount of physical ability, plus some valuable game experience. Would you prefer Josh "Zero pass attempts since 2011" Johnson backing up our 35-year-old starter?
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JPP is in the building with the Giants. Just waiting on that signature.
Marshall must have said some good things about Geno, who is his workout partner
And he creates some real defensive problems for you. If you get into the red zone, you must not only account for him, but you have to account for him with someone who has speed and agility
One of our red zone problems is that defenses do not have to account for Eli.
This is a good situation for Geno. Statistical odds are against him at this stage of his career, but it is hard to imagine a worse QB development structure than what he had with the Jets.
He's not a running QB.
Marshall must have said some good things about Geno, who is his workout partner
The whole Victor Cruz Jets thing is a perfect example of proof by assertion.
Marshall must have said some good things about Geno, who is his workout partner
Cruz IS NOT AN EX JET. FUUUUUUCK! What is with you people?
The Jets are dysfunctional, and Geno tore an ACL, but he's had plenty of time to prove himself. The Jets also had a very good defense for several years. And yes, I'd much rather have Johnson than Smith. Several teams wanted Johnson last season as a backup IIRC. Nobody this year wants Smith.
I've been reading about things... I think you're going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks. ;o)
Think people, THINK!
;-)
Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Acid?
Really, we're debating the relative culinary merits of a plate of worms vs. a bowl of cockroaches. More evidence that the offseason is too long.
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in the locker room and not a single teammate defends him. This is all we need to know about Geno.
He can run. Apart from that he is a turnover machine with a bad attitude.
Please tell me this is a joke.
He can run based on what, exactly?
Look, this will probably spiral the thread out of control, but just because he's black doesn't mean he's a running QB.
Only an ass clown would make an innocent comment a racial issue. You can fuck of now junior.
except for his big arm
hope Mac can fix this guy
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In comment 13396699 averagejoe said:
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in the locker room and not a single teammate defends him. This is all we need to know about Geno.
He can run. Apart from that he is a turnover machine with a bad attitude.
Please tell me this is a joke.
He can run based on what, exactly?
Look, this will probably spiral the thread out of control, but just because he's black doesn't mean he's a running QB.
Only an ass clown would make an innocent comment a racial issue. You can fuck of now junior.
Nah, pipe down. You're the one that made a know-nothing assumption based entirely on race.