Now, I've been seeing a lot of contracts lately where there's guaranteed money as roster bonuses in year 2 and 3 - is that included in the 'guaranteed' portion, or is that part of the overall?
If he's getting $34M in first 11 mo and 20 is the SB, then his salary is $14 million in the first 2 years? So something like this?
20M SB
Year 1 salary-6M(11M cap hit)
Year 2 salary-8M(13M cap hit)
Year 3 salary-13M(partially gtd)(18M cap hit)
Year 4 salary-19M(24M cap hit, 5M dead money if released)
For the Giants and a great job by Jerry Reese. Now if we can add another pass rusher and a defensive tackle, this defense will be something to watch, I also would not be surprised to see a free safety added also.
On offense we all know we need a pass catching tight end, a running back, and 2 offensive linemen would be nice. A tackle and a guard/tackle swing man. I loved last years draft and I think they should and will take the same approach. I also love the fact that McAdoo has a year under his belt, and he is much more experienced moving forward this season.
I also like his mentality, he wants to control the lines of scrimmage. It's a fun time to be a Giants fan, we just have to pray for good health, that is the thing that can kill us. We are overdue for some run of luck in that area.
And supposedly he came back early from vacation, does that mean they got this done now in conjunction with another impending deal to get cap space (Hankins?)?
Agreed. He was obviously being facetious, especially given his reference to trading him to the Browns for Thomas and one of their second round picks. That "hypothetical" trade has been discussed many times during the last few weeks.
That means he gets a guaranteed roster bonus in February of next year which will be amortized over the remaining three years of the deal.
for example...
$20M signing bonus today. (guaranteed money)
$3.5M salary in year 1 (guaranteed)--8.5M cap hit
$10.5M roster bonus in February 2018 (guaranteed)
$6M salary in year 2 (guaranteed)--14.5M cap hit
$9.5M salary in year 3--18M cap hit
$12.5M salary in year 4--21M cap hit.
and first 11 months might not include his 2nd year base salary since he technically doesn't get that until September 2018. So the $34M could just be his SB ($20M) plus his first year salary, plus a 2018 roster bonus.
Milton is guessing based on the little information
and first 11 months might not include his 2nd year base salary since he technically doesn't get that until September 2018. So the $34M could just be his SB ($20M) plus his first year salary, plus a 2018 roster bonus.
Vernon's base was only $1.75M and he also received a $20M signing bonus (pro-rated over 5 years), but he also received a roster bonus ($7M) and a workout bonus ($250k) in the first year of his deal. The roster/workout bonuses are NOT pro-rated, thus his 1st year cap hit was: $1.75 + $20/5 + $7 + $0.25 = $13M.
and first 11 months might not include his 2nd year base salary since he technically doesn't get that until September 2018. So the $34M could just be his SB ($20M) plus his first year salary, plus a 2018 roster bonus.
Roster bonuses are easily converted to signing bonuses so that they can be amortized.
RE: Milton is guessing based on the little information
20M SB
Year 1 salary-6M(11M cap hit)
Year 2 salary-8M(13M cap hit)
Year 3 salary-13M(partially gtd)(18M cap hit)
Year 4 salary-19M(24M cap hit, 5M dead money if released)
So this contract makes sense, slightly smaller with the potential to reach that level with incentives. Tough to digest but you had to figure that this is what it would cost.
I think they need to let Hankins walk though, we now have enough cap dollars tied up on the D line. I'd like to see them add a bargain DE/DT tweener in free agency with the cap space, Jared Odrick makes sense.
and first 11 months might not include his 2nd year base salary since he technically doesn't get that until September 2018. So the $34M could just be his SB ($20M) plus his first year salary, plus a 2018 roster bonus.
Roster bonuses are easily converted to signing bonuses so that they can be amortized.
When was the last time this happened? Typically teams (Dallas with Smith/Frederick, Dolphins with Suh, etc) have large base salaries in years 2-3+ of the deal, which they then convert to a restructure bonus. Off hand, I don't recall the Giants touching roster bonuses other than as part of a restructure and/or paycut (e.g. Cruz).
RE: Seems like its truly a 3 year $40 million deal
If I'm reading this correctly it means his cap hit this year is $11 million instead of the $16.934 million it would have been had he played under the franchise tag, so that adds about $6 million to the cap? Is that correct? If so OTC is saying that before this contract the Giants only had $3,282,766 in cap space so their new cap number is $9,282,766. Does that seem right?
If I'm reading this correctly it means his cap hit this year is $11 million instead of the $16.934 million it would have been had he played under the franchise tag, so that adds about $6 million to the cap? Is that correct? If so OTC is saying that before this contract the Giants only had $3,282,766 in cap space so their new cap number is $9,282,766. Does that seem right?
Unknown until we see salary breakdown, but your estimates are about right. Could be more savings too.
Roster bonuses are easily converted to signing bonuses so that they can be amortized.
When was the last time this happened?
Then you tell me how you get to $34M in compensation over the first 11 months when the original signing bonus is $20M?
Sure. I'd start by looking at recent big deals the Giants have signed for Vernon, Jenkins, and Snacks. All 3 of these have a low year one base salary + signing bonus + year 1 roster bonus (paid now, not amortized).
So, for JPP we know his SB = $20M. I'll give him the same $1.75M base as Vernon and Snacks and also assume he's get $250k workout bonuses each of the 4 years. That's $22M total. Next, like the 3 above players, he's also likely to get a roster bonus in 2017. Let's make that the same as Vernon's ($7M). So now he's getting $29M between now and next February, which leaves a $5M roster bonus for next year (Note: these numbers change if it's really $34M in the first 2 seasons rather than first 11 months).
We also know that the total deal is $62M with $49.5M paid in the first 3 years (IIRC). That means his final year base salary is $12.25M (last $250k is the workout bonus)
2017: $1.75M B $5M SB $7M RB $0.25 WB = $14M cap hit
2018: $4M B $5M SB $5M RB $0.25 WB = $14.25M cap hit
2019: $11M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $16.25M cap hit
2020: $12.25M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $17.5M cap hit
Total: $62M
Per a source with knowledge of the situation, its a four-year deal with a base value of $62 million. Of that amount, $29 million is fully guaranteed at signing.
The cash flow is as follows: $22.5 million in 2017, $35 million through 2018, $49.5 million through 2019, and $62 million. Incentives can push the value of the contract to $66 million.
If the $20M signing bonus report is true, this suggests a cap hit of $6.5M this year. I'm guessing there's a little bit of misinformation going on, but the exact numbers will come out within a couple of days, so no biggie.
20M SB
Year 1 salary-6M(11M cap hit)
Year 2 salary-8M(13M cap hit)
Year 3 salary-13M(partially gtd)(18M cap hit)
Year 4 salary-19M(24M cap hit, 5M dead money if released)
He's (reportedly) getting $49.5M over the first 3 years with a $20M signing bonus ($5M against the cap per year). So there's no way his year 4 salary is $19M. It's $12.5M minus roster/workout bonuses due that year (based on the deals last year, I'd guess he gets $250k workout each year and only Jenkins receive a roster bonus outside of year 1).
2017: $1.75M B $5M SB $7M RB $0.25 WB = $14M cap hit
2018: $4M B $5M SB $5M RB $0.25 WB = $14.25M cap hit
2019: $11M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $16.25M cap hit
2020: $12.25M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $17.5M cap hit
Total: $62M
We'll see but I find it hard to believe that the Giants signed him to a 4 year $62M deal with $40M guaranteed just so they could shave $3M off of this year's cap.
Per a source with knowledge of the situation, its a four-year deal with a base value of $62 million. Of that amount, $29 million is fully guaranteed at signing.
The cash flow is as follows: $22.5 million in 2017, $35 million through 2018, $49.5 million through 2019, and $62 million. Incentives can push the value of the contract to $66 million.
If the $20M signing bonus report is true, this suggests a cap hit of $6.5M this year. I'm guessing there's a little bit of misinformation going on, but the exact numbers will come out within a couple of days, so no biggie.
If this is right it would be a $7.5M first year cap hit ($5M from SB + $2.5M base/other bonus).
And as I suspected, it's $34-35M through 2018, not the first 11 months. Based on this info, I would say the structure is:
2017: $1.75M base _ $5M sb _ $500k rb _ $0.25 wb = $7.5M cap hit
2018: $12.25M base ($6.5M gtd) _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
2019: $14.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $19.5M cap hit
2020: $12.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: roster bonuses are NOT amortized
2017: $1.75M B $5M SB $7M RB $0.25 WB = $14M cap hit
2018: $4M B $5M SB $5M RB $0.25 WB = $14.25M cap hit
2019: $11M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $16.25M cap hit
2020: $12.25M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $17.5M cap hit
Total: $62M
We'll see but I find it hard to believe that the Giants signed him to a 4 year $62M deal with $40M guaranteed just so they could shave $3M off of this year's cap.
They signed him to the deal so they'd have a (second) premier pass rusher locked up for 4 seasons.
That said, with the new info (assuming its accurate) about the $35M thru 2018 instead of 11 months, I've ammended this.
This type of structure makes more sense for the Giants
2017: $1.75M base _ $5M sb _ $500k rb _ $0.25 wb = $7.5M cap hit
2018: $12.25M base ($6.5M gtd) _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
2019: $14.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $19.5M cap hit
2020: $12.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
I'm expecting it to look earily similar to this when the official numbers are released.
but hopefully it is front loaded. Pay him now and in 18 months when we all realize what a disaster it was to give the following player 40 million guaranteed:
1. A man with 7 fingers
2. With proven immaturity issues (Prince in Tub/Fireworks)
3. And motivation issues (came to camp looking like Kevin James one year)
4. And injury concerns (Bad back/surgery and dinged all the time)
We can cut bait and move on without really crippling us in 2 years.
RE: This type of structure makes more sense for the Giants
2017: $1.75M base _ $5M sb _ $500k rb _ $0.25 wb = $7.5M cap hit
2018: $12.25M base ($6.5M gtd) _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
2019: $14.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $19.5M cap hit
2020: $12.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
I'm expecting it to look earily similar to this when the official numbers are released.
The one thing that stands out is his 2019 number since Eli's cap # will be $23.2M, Vernon's $19.5M, Jenkins $13.25M and Beckham will be starting his big money deal that season. Excluding Beckham, that's $75M in cap space for 4 players!
Maybe they'll structure Pugh & Richburg's deals to have cap hits below average in 2019.
The cap will be in the $180-185 million rnge by then...
Robinson back. And a Vet RB Blount,Starks,Charles,etc
+1
Robinson was great in pass coverage and would be great to bring him back for another year. Plus the Giants are an attractive destination for a vet RB, with really only Paul Perkins to contend with for the starting job.
Hoping Jamaal Charles lowers his asking price and accepts a 1 year vet minimum contract just to have a shot to be a starting RB again. Having a 1-2 combo of Charles and Perkins would be great, along with Shane Vereen on 3rd downs.
Long term because of the presence of Vernon.
Vernon brought leadership and work ethic and dedication that fed into jpp both on and off the field
I'm sure snacks helped too
But they have no maturity concerns now
You don't worry about 2019 numbers because in most cases all the guaranteed money other than SB amortization is paid. The contracts are really essentially front loaded
I thought they'd keep it further under $14M per than they did
Long term because of the presence of Vernon.
Vernon brought leadership and work ethic and dedication that fed into jpp both on and off the field
I'm sure snacks helped too
But they have no maturity concerns now
Is this your opinion or knowledge of the situation? I ask because it appeared as though the situation changed him and how he approaches things rather than his new teammates.
RE: I thought they'd keep it further under $14M per than they did
and they paid him more than I expected, JPP's camp must have really stood their ground well.
There's only so much you can do. What they were asking for was on par with market rate for top defensive ends.
The "giants have all the leverage" stuff is almost always fan fiction every time you hear it.
Also, I'm of the opinion that the team has always been much higher on him as a person and a player than fans here have been. They have been trying to get him signed long term for years, and stuck by him through everything.
If you're a team that doesn't trust a player or you're lukewarm on his effort or behavior, this is not how you demonstrate it.
Long term because of the presence of Vernon.
Vernon brought leadership and work ethic and dedication that fed into jpp both on and off the field
I'm sure snacks helped too
But they have no maturity concerns now
I suspected this, tbh. Vernon and Snacks work ehtics and attitudes rubbing off on JPP doesn't surprise me.
RE: RE: I thought they'd keep it further under $14M per than they did
and they paid him more than I expected, JPP's camp must have really stood their ground well.
There's only so much you can do. What they were asking for was on par with market rate for top defensive ends.
The "giants have all the leverage" stuff is almost always fan fiction every time you hear it.
Also, I'm of the opinion that the team has always been much higher on him as a person and a player than fans here have been. They have been trying to get him signed long term for years, and stuck by him through everything.
If you're a team that doesn't trust a player or you're lukewarm on his effort or behavior, this is not how you demonstrate it.
Seeing what other DEs of lesser ability got and seeing OV with $85 mill, there was no way to get it under $14 mill/year.
for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
In fairness, not a helluva lot of them have been healthy enough to get to the second contract and if so, were injury prone enough (i.e. Prince) not to pursue
Do people really think that Philips or Nicks were not going to get contracts if their careers were not wrecked by injuries. Never approached that point with Wilson.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
......"for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back....."".
If you want to issue a condemning statement you're obligated to be specific....what first round picks do you think he should have resigned?
Otherwise you're a cheap shot artist.
funny to see that stat thrown around about Reese today, very fair to bitch and moan about his lack of production from mid to late round picks over his tenure, but first round picks, he has knocked out of the ballpark. Add in that he's generally pick in the back half of the first round, and its even more impressive.
"He's one of our best players and one of our leaders". They' are paying him that way, not just for sack numbers. I'm good with it. I wouldn't sign Hankins. Bromley and Thomas have to get the job done. Can't keep throwing money at the DL it's needed elsewhere. Successful teams develop players. Bromley was a high draft choice. Time for him to step up. Adams needs to be part of the TE solution. Lewis and King need to develop at WR. Everything can't be a free agency fix. Solutions have to come internally (like Goodson at MLB)
It's a big #, and we really need him to stay healthy (at least mostly over the next 3 years - realistically hope for him to play better than 80% of the games). But it's fair considering what pass rusher's make now - JPP is a talented and complete DE, good against both run and especially pass.
It's a lot of money on DL, but clearly that's where the Giants place their value on D (along w/DB, mainly CB). We have a great pair of bookend DE's who should essentially be at their prime age for the next few years. Along with Snacks, it's a scary DL even w/o Hankins. And now they have some cap room to possibly bring back big Hank (probably still not the most likely tho - they need to think about some other upcoming contracts like OBJ, Collins and Pugh etc), or a cheaper replacement and probable draft pick. I'd rather not lose one of those guys to pay a 4th DL.
Glad to get it done, now can move on to whatever's next (DT if no Hank, cover LB if not Robinson, DB depth, RB/TE/OL and the draft picks we'll add at those positions). I'm excited to see this roster fill out - a real nice core of good talent at key positions locked up for a few years - still a handful of guys coming up, but unfortunately when you hit on picks and sign FA's like we did last year, you may not be able to keep all the good picks or cheap backups who do well...
and with other players like Poe and Logan getting $8-10M, I just don't see the Giants paying Hankins' price. Unless he takes a 1 year, prove it type deal for maybe $6M (or less?).
for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
Are you forgetting what happened to guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips or David Wilson? Or is the Coughlin worship just *that* pathetic?
My statement had nothing to do with Coughlin. It was a factual statement regarding our GM's 1st round draft picks. I didn't forget what happened to players with injuries. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
Pugh will be the next eligible. If we apply the same standard of not being worth a second contract due to being often injured and missing games, then Pugh will not be extended. Still too early on OBJ, Flowers, and Apple.
Is this summary not factual? Again, not one mention of Coughlin in my response, but I'm sure you'll find some angle to drag him into the discussion.
......"for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back....."".
If you want to issue a condemning statement you're obligated to be specific....what first round picks do you think he should have resigned?
Otherwise you're a cheap shot artist.
It's not a cheap shot. The condemnation is based in the factual summary of Jerry's ability to extend his own first round draft picks. In a decade, he has extended 1 of his first round picks to a multi-year contract. Interpret that simple statement how you will.
Do people really think that Philips or Nicks were not going to get contracts if their careers were not wrecked by injuries. Never approached that point with Wilson.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
But our former 1st round picks did continue to play. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
Translation: I don't know the circumstances surrounding these players not being re-signed. Hence I will make an idiotic blanket statement that exposes me to ridicule.
for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
In fairness, not a helluva lot of them have been healthy enough to get to the second contract and if so, were injury prone enough (i.e. Prince) not to pursue
Now that is the crux of it - not worthy to pursue. Injuries have derailed players careers (Philips and Wilson), and others (Ross, Nicks, Prince) had some injuries but were able to continue playing after their rookie contract. Apparently 2 of them were worthy enough to bring back on a 1yr contract.
Translation: I don't know the circumstances surrounding these players not being re-signed. Hence I will make an idiotic blanket statement that exposes me to ridicule.
Congrats. Mission accomplished numbnutz.
Attack the post not the poster. What was incorrect about my statement? Jerry Reese became the GM in Jan. 2007. Fact. In his decade of tenure, he has had 10 first round picks. OBJ, Flowers, and Apple are not eligible for second contracts. So out of 7 1st round draft picks, Jerry has managed to sign 1 to a multi-year contract. I'm aware of injuries. Some players (Phillips and Wilson) were forced out of the league due to their injuries. Others (Ross, Nicks, and Prince) managed to continue to play beyond their rookie contracts. The jury is still out regarding Pugh.
Long term because of the presence of Vernon.
Vernon brought leadership and work ethic and dedication that fed into jpp both on and off the field
I'm sure snacks helped too
But they have no maturity concerns now
Do people really think that Philips or Nicks were not going to get contracts if their careers were not wrecked by injuries. Never approached that point with Wilson.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
But our former 1st round picks did continue to play. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
This is a ridiculous point to try to pass off as legitimate discussion.
for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
Are you forgetting what happened to guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips or David Wilson? Or is the Coughlin worship just *that* pathetic?
My statement had nothing to do with Coughlin. It was a factual statement regarding our GM's 1st round draft picks. I didn't forget what happened to players with injuries. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
Pugh will be the next eligible. If we apply the same standard of not being worth a second contract due to being often injured and missing games, then Pugh will not be extended. Still too early on OBJ, Flowers, and Apple.
Is this summary not factual? Again, not one mention of Coughlin in my response, but I'm sure you'll find some angle to drag him into the discussion.
Lost me at Nicks. Nicks became a shell of himself due to leg injuries. Nicks would've signed a longterm deal as top 10 WR. Injuries derailed that. End of story
Yes he got another chance to hang on because he was a still just 25 formerly elite WR, but the point is he was worthy of a long-term deal if not for career-altering injuries.
for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
Are you forgetting what happened to guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips or David Wilson? Or is the Coughlin worship just *that* pathetic?
My statement had nothing to do with Coughlin. It was a factual statement regarding our GM's 1st round draft picks. I didn't forget what happened to players with injuries. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
Pugh will be the next eligible. If we apply the same standard of not being worth a second contract due to being often injured and missing games, then Pugh will not be extended. Still too early on OBJ, Flowers, and Apple.
Is this summary not factual? Again, not one mention of Coughlin in my response, but I'm sure you'll find some angle to drag him into the discussion.
Lost me at Nicks. Nicks became a shell of himself due to leg injuries. Nicks would've signed a longterm deal as top 10 WR. Injuries derailed that. End of story
Yes he got another chance to hang on because he was a still just 25 formerly elite WR, but the point is he was worthy of a long-term deal if not for career-altering injuries.
You place the criteria of "long-term" deal. My criteria was a multi-year contract. Jerry signed Ross, Nicks, and JPP to 1 year deals in the past. My low bar for him to clear is a contract that exceeds 1 year. Ross, Nicks, and Prince played for more than 1 year beyond their rookie contracts. Nowhere in my statements have I moved the goalposts to frame the critique that a "long-term" deal was required.
Do people really think that Philips or Nicks were not going to get contracts if their careers were not wrecked by injuries. Never approached that point with Wilson.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
Do people really think that Philips or Nicks were not going to get contracts if their careers were not wrecked by injuries. Never approached that point with Wilson.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
Being that you copied and pasted your original response above, I'll copy and paste my response to your response. RE: Contract
Diver_Down : 7:25 pm : link : reply
In comment 13397472 stretch234 said:
Quote:
Do people really think that Philips or Nicks were not going to get contracts if their careers were not wrecked by injuries. Never approached that point with Wilson.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
But our former 1st round picks did continue to play. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
You should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to slip that one by.
Nobody - not the Giants FO, not the fans, no one - wanted Nicks to be let go before he was hurt. He was putting together a HoF worthy career before he was derailed. And it was only after it was clear he had nothing left that he left the building with no attempt to retain him. And even then, they brought him back with the hopes he might somehow be able to resurrect his career.
What happened to him was criminal, but to insinuate that somehow it was a failing by Reese or the FO, or that the player was anything less than worthy of a hefty second contract, is insulting.
You should be ashamed of yourself for even trying to slip that one by.
Nobody - not the Giants FO, not the fans, no one - wanted Nicks to be let go before he was hurt. He was putting together a HoF worthy career before he was derailed. And it was only after it was clear he had nothing left that he left the building with no attempt to retain him. And even then, they brought him back with the hopes he might somehow be able to resurrect his career.
What happened to him was criminal, but to insinuate that somehow it was a failing by Reese or the FO, or that the player was anything less than worthy of a hefty second contract, is insulting.
I'm not trying to deceive anyone. Not trying to "slip one by". I'm setting a very low bar for Reese to hurdle. A multi-year contract is more than 1 year. A 2 year contract qualifies as a multi-year contract. Ross, Nicks, and Prince have all played for 2 years beyond their rookie contracts. Hence, they all could have qualified to have been signed to multi-year contracts.
Are you EVER not a negative, miserable person? Serious question because I've never seen you post a positive thing about this team. Why do you even watch? Don't you have a puppy to kick or something?
Are you EVER not a negative, miserable person? Serious question because I've never seen you post a positive thing about this team. Why do you even watch? Don't you have a puppy to kick or something?
I would appreciate if you would focus your criticism at my post and not myself. Don't confuse my criticism of the GM with my devotion to the team. One is capable for rooting for the team without endorsing the GM.
Are you EVER not a negative, miserable person? Serious question because I've never seen you post a positive thing about this team. Why do you even watch? Don't you have a puppy to kick or something?
I would appreciate if you would focus your criticism at my post and not myself. Don't confuse my criticism of the GM with my devotion to the team. One is capable for rooting for the team without endorsing the GM.
This was a 11-5 team that has added a big productive WR (team need), a blocking TE (team need), a G/T (team need), hasn't lost anyone of any signifance (Hankins still in limbo) and the draft is still yet to come. Seems a strange time to be killing the GM, though I'm not surprised that you continue to do so. You've made your mind up. Reese sucks. Nothing will ever change your mind so you will continue to litter every single thread with your agenda. Lucky us!
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
RE: Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now.
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Easy there killer
RE: Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now.
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
RE: RE: Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now.
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
RE: RE: RE: Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now.
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
Sorry. Been a NYG fan since conception. That doesn't mean the team, or members of the FO, are immune from being criticized when warranted. The hard truth is Reese's poor job performance from 2008 thru 2012 contributed to the roster's deterioration that resulted in the team missing the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons, including the train-wreck seasons of 2013, 2014, and 2015. They've seemingly turned a corner, but to waste away the prime years of the best QB in franchise history as he's done is criminal.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now.
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
Sorry. Been a NYG fan since conception. That doesn't mean the team, or members of the FO, are immune from being criticized when warranted. The hard truth is Reese's poor job performance from 2008 thru 2012 contributed to the roster's deterioration that resulted in the team missing the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons, including the train-wreck seasons of 2013, 2014, and 2015. They've seemingly turned a corner, but to waste away the prime years of the best QB in franchise history as he's done is criminal.
Why are you such a clown? You should just change your handle to: The_Cunt
Is it too much of a challenge for you to respond to a post without deferring to profanities? What The_Boss posted above is true. Because we root for our team doesn't mean that we have to agree with all facets of the organization. Someone above referenced that I think "Reese Sucks" which is the lazy narrative for any criticism of Jerry. Is he capable of the job? Sure. Has his past performance warranted the "In Reese We Trust" moniker that is thrown around? Not unless you are a homer.
RE: RE: RE: Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now.
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
He already does. He's an Eagles fan.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now.
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
Sorry. Been a NYG fan since conception. That doesn't mean the team, or members of the FO, are immune from being criticized when warranted. The hard truth is Reese's poor job performance from 2008 thru 2012 contributed to the roster's deterioration that resulted in the team missing the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons, including the train-wreck seasons of 2013, 2014, and 2015. They've seemingly turned a corner, but to waste away the prime years of the best QB in franchise history as he's done is criminal.
How anyone who calls himself a Giants fan can look at the 2008, 2009, and 2010 drafts and criticize Reese is beyond me.
In 2008, picking last in each round, the Giants got a starting FS, a starting CB, a complimentary WR, and a starting-caliber MIKE.
In 2009, picking late in each round, the Giants got a #1 WR and a starting LT.
In 2010, the Giants got an elite DE and a starting, run-stuffing DT.
Throw in a bunch of late-rounders who, at the very least, provided depth and special-teams play...add a couple of UDFAs who became major contributors...and let's not forget some very key free agent acquisitions, and it shouldn't be hard to see why the Giants won their second Super Bowl under Reese's tenure in 2011.
Is Reese God? Hardly. He's certainly made his share of mistakes. But he's also been the victim of a tremendous amount of bad luck and an inordinate amount of catastrophic injuries. My guess is that Eli gives him a lot more credit than some alleged fans do. After all, he's got two rings and two Super Bowl MVPs on his resume. Does Aaron Rogers? Does Drew Brees? Can Tony Romo? Can any other QB not named Brady or Roethlisberger make those claims? Nope.
So, oh, my paws and whiskers! Reese had to spend big in free agency last year to bolster a historically bad defense - a spending spree that was roundly criticized by pundits and fans alike, but which ended up being monumentally successful. A huge feather in his cap, in my opinion.
Criticism is fine when it's constructive. Incessant whining is not, but it's what we've come to expect from the usual suspects.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now.
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
Sorry. Been a NYG fan since conception. That doesn't mean the team, or members of the FO, are immune from being criticized when warranted. The hard truth is Reese's poor job performance from 2008 thru 2012 contributed to the roster's deterioration that resulted in the team missing the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons, including the train-wreck seasons of 2013, 2014, and 2015. They've seemingly turned a corner, but to waste away the prime years of the best QB in franchise history as he's done is criminal.
Why are you such a clown? You should just change your handle to: The_Cunt
Is it too much of a challenge for you to respond to a post without deferring to profanities? What The_Boss posted above is true. Because we root for our team doesn't mean that we have to agree with all facets of the organization. Someone above referenced that I think "Reese Sucks" which is the lazy narrative for any criticism of Jerry. Is he capable of the job? Sure. Has his past performance warranted the "In Reese We Trust" moniker that is thrown around? Not unless you are a homer.
Is it too hard not to bitch and moan about everything? Believe it or not, there are posters here that would love to talk about the Giants without The_Boss, Diver Down, and Doomster whining on every fucking thread. WE GET IT: THE OL SUCKS, REESE'S DRAFTS SUCKED for a few years BLAH BLAH BLAH..We get it. Men are trying to talk here.
Since then, he's drafted one of the best players in the NFL on offense (Beckham), traded up for an all pro safety (Collins), and added 3 MORE ALL PROS in Snacks, Vernon, Jenkins + DRC. But yeah, keep whining about the 2013 draft.
Nobody wants to be around the guy who bitches and moans all the time. If you're interested in having a discussion, I'd be more than happy to. But you seem more interested in venting your misery around here.
I'm sure I'm not the only poster who can do without The_Boss doing his "THE OL SUCKS I TOLD YOU SO" shtick, Doomster (who's a borderline troll) and Diver_Down polluting every thread like 15 year old girls.
I am a very happy Giant fan today. The most deserving true blue blood Giant, got paid, and will be on our side for a few more years. Congrats JPP! You are an inspiration to all of us who have fucked up, and fought our way back. A place in the "Ring of Honor" awaits you.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now.
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
Sorry. Been a NYG fan since conception. That doesn't mean the team, or members of the FO, are immune from being criticized when warranted. The hard truth is Reese's poor job performance from 2008 thru 2012 contributed to the roster's deterioration that resulted in the team missing the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons, including the train-wreck seasons of 2013, 2014, and 2015. They've seemingly turned a corner, but to waste away the prime years of the best QB in franchise history as he's done is criminal.
Why are you such a clown? You should just change your handle to: The_Cunt
Is it too much of a challenge for you to respond to a post without deferring to profanities? What The_Boss posted above is true. Because we root for our team doesn't mean that we have to agree with all facets of the organization. Someone above referenced that I think "Reese Sucks" which is the lazy narrative for any criticism of Jerry. Is he capable of the job? Sure. Has his past performance warranted the "In Reese We Trust" moniker that is thrown around? Not unless you are a homer.
Is it too hard not to bitch and moan about everything? Believe it or not, there are posters here that would love to talk about the Giants without The_Boss, Diver Down, and Doomster whining on every fucking thread. WE GET IT: THE OL SUCKS, REESE'S DRAFTS SUCKED for a few years BLAH BLAH BLAH..We get it. Men are trying to talk here.
Since then, he's drafted one of the best players in the NFL on offense (Beckham), traded up for an all pro safety (Collins), and added 3 MORE ALL PROS in Snacks, Vernon, Jenkins + DRC. But yeah, keep whining about the 2013 draft.
Nobody wants to be around the guy who bitches and moans all the time. If you're interested in having a discussion, I'd be more than happy to. But you seem more interested in venting your misery around here.
I'm sure I'm not the only poster who can do without The_Boss doing his "THE OL SUCKS I TOLD YOU SO" shtick, Doomster (who's a borderline troll) and Diver_Down polluting every thread like 15 year old girls.
Man the fuck up.
Could not have said that better myself
If you're a tue blue fan you take the good with the bad
earned it by getting the two rings for this franchise
An Reese is close to assembling another winning team
There will be a day they are both gone and the Giants will be truly re-building
Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
Big picture: If this franchise is able to win another SB in
2-3 years, nobody will give a shit that we had lousy years 2013-2015, which is a blip on the radar for this franchise....Eli goes into the HOF on roller skates and it will put a ribbon on the most successful period in franchise history. It's called seeing the big picture.
Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
As I wrote earlier, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Please call me when you're ready to provide some.
Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
As I wrote earlier, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Please call me when you're ready to provide some.
What further needs to be said? One poster called JR a god and I (accurately) said why we had to spend a boatload of cap $$ to improve the team. If Reese drafted better from 2008 thru 2012, chances are we'd have a strong enough roster to the point where we needed to import impact players from other rosters to the extent Reese had to. I'm not sure how anyone can dispute that. At the same time, by me stating that, how do posters have the nerve to call me a cunt? Let's try to have a semblance of respect around here. Jesus.
Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
As I wrote earlier, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Please call me when you're ready to provide some.
What further needs to be said? One poster called JR a god and I (accurately) said why we had to spend a boatload of cap $$ to improve the team. If Reese drafted better from 2008 thru 2012, chances are we'd have a strong enough roster to the point where we needed to import impact players from other rosters to the extent Reese had to. I'm not sure how anyone can dispute that. At the same time, by me stating that, how do posters have the nerve to call me a cunt? Let's try to have a semblance of respect around here. Jesus.
Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
As I wrote earlier, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Please call me when you're ready to provide some.
What further needs to be said? One poster called JR a god and I (accurately) said why we had to spend a boatload of cap $$ to improve the team. If Reese drafted better from 2008 thru 2012, chances are we'd have a strong enough roster to the point where we needed to import impact players from other rosters to the extent Reese had to. I'm not sure how anyone can dispute that. At the same time, by me stating that, how do posters have the nerve to call me a cunt? Let's try to have a semblance of respect around here. Jesus.
I did dispute it, and I did so rather nicely. You just chose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Reese is the hottest GM in the league right now.
He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
He already does. He's an Eagles fan.
Fake news.
Funny you all still think this. Upon my registering, I was labeled a Philly fan because I had nerve to suggest the Eagles were better than the NYG. Well, they swept us in 2015.
What most of you have failed to learn is two fold:
1. I am a NYG fan
2. I am ALWAYS right regarding the NYG and this has been demonstrated time and time again on this site.
Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
Klaatu +2
@Boss:
You're a one trick pony. You offer nothing of value to the forum. You repeat yourself over and over, and don't even attempt to take in all the information. As Klaatu pointed out (and several other posters have called you out on multiple threads for your BS), you clearly have an ax to grind, or are a troll (I've seen posts you are an Eagle fan?)
Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
Klaatu +2
@Boss:
You're a one trick pony. You offer nothing of value to the forum. You repeat yourself over and over, and don't even attempt to take in all the information. As Klaatu pointed out (and several other posters have called you out on multiple threads for your BS), you clearly have an ax to grind, or are a troll (I've seen posts you are an Eagle fan?)
I offer nothing of value? Hypocrisy in its finest form. In a perfect world, I'd never stoop to your level of (atrocious) posting, but since you are compelled to attack every (100% accurate) post I opine here, I'm left very little choice but to defend my heightened level of intelligence.
He's been better since 2013. I'm not debating that. Almost every unit is stronger today. And we finally saw the fruit of his efforts realized in 2016. People don't seem to recall just how devoid of talent this roster was.
RE: RE: Lol no Reese isnt god really, what i means is..
He's been better since 2013. I'm not debating that. Almost every unit is stronger today. And we finally saw the fruit of his efforts realized in 2016. People don't seem to recall just how devoid of talent this roster was.
This roster, IMO, is the best its been since the GMEN of the mid to late 80s. And IMO Reese is one of the best if not the very best GM in all of football, at least as of lately. And yes this roster is night and day from 2013 no doubt. It took a few more years than expected to fix and there is still work to be done as there will always be but im beyond impressed with what we have on paper right now.
@RapSheet
On his 4-yr, $62M deal worth up to $66M, #Giants star JPP has a $20M signing bonus. He earns $34M within 11 mos & $49.5M over the 1st 3 yrs
Sounds about right, 5/52 vs 4/40.
Vernon's cap hit was very reasonable in year 1 though, wonder if they do the same with JPP.
20M SB
Year 1 salary-6M(11M cap hit)
Year 2 salary-8M(13M cap hit)
Year 3 salary-13M(partially gtd)(18M cap hit)
Year 4 salary-19M(24M cap hit, 5M dead money if released)
Meaning we likely just freed up $10 million in cap space ($17MM franchise tag hit - ($5mm signing bonus + $2mm salary)
I'm here all week, folks.
$10MM from his signing bonus
$4MM first year salary
$13MM year 2 salary
$7MM year 2 roster bonus (due in february)
That opens up about $10mil in cap space and gives us more flexibility in the draft.
LOT is handled, the offense is much improved and no way anyone can project which way we'll go in the draft.
They can go either side of the ball now. I would sign Hank and then go LB, DE, RB and TE in the draft.
That opens up about $10mil in cap space and gives us more flexibility in the draft.
LOT is handled, the offense is much improved and no way anyone can project which way we'll go in the draft.
They can go either side of the ball now. I would sign Hank and then go LB, DE, RB and TE in the draft.
You obviously dont know how contracts work. Once the contract is signed, JPP is literally untradeable until year 3 at the earliest.
His entire signing bonus would be accelerated to the Giants cap the moment he was traded.
We only could have traded him if he played under the Franchise tag, because that is no bonus and all salary
That opens up about $10mil in cap space and gives us more flexibility in the draft.
LOT is handled, the offense is much improved and no way anyone can project which way we'll go in the draft.
They can go either side of the ball now. I would sign Hank and then go LB, DE, RB and TE in the draft.
Great idea! Then his 40m guaranteed accelerates to this year and the Giants go over the cap by $30m+!!
Thank you! LOL!
Seems a bit much for "kidding".
On offense we all know we need a pass catching tight end, a running back, and 2 offensive linemen would be nice. A tackle and a guard/tackle swing man. I loved last years draft and I think they should and will take the same approach. I also love the fact that McAdoo has a year under his belt, and he is much more experienced moving forward this season.
I also like his mentality, he wants to control the lines of scrimmage. It's a fun time to be a Giants fan, we just have to pray for good health, that is the thing that can kill us. We are overdue for some run of luck in that area.
Agreed. He was obviously being facetious, especially given his reference to trading him to the Browns for Thomas and one of their second round picks. That "hypothetical" trade has been discussed many times during the last few weeks.
for example...
$20M signing bonus today. (guaranteed money)
$3.5M salary in year 1 (guaranteed)--8.5M cap hit
$10.5M roster bonus in February 2018 (guaranteed)
$6M salary in year 2 (guaranteed)--14.5M cap hit
$9.5M salary in year 3--18M cap hit
$12.5M salary in year 4--21M cap hit.
This^^^
Quote:
based on the various threads started on bbi.
Seems a bit much for "kidding".
Sorry BillT
This sounds right
IMO thats not close to what OV got.
Okay thanks
No offense, but Milton's guess is garbage since roster bonuses aren't amortized. So his cap #s make zero sense.
20M SB
Year 1 salary-6M(11M cap hit)
Year 2 salary-8M(13M cap hit)
Year 3 salary-13M(partially gtd)(18M cap hit)
Year 4 salary-19M(24M cap hit, 5M dead money if released)
I think they need to let Hankins walk though, we now have enough cap dollars tied up on the D line. I'd like to see them add a bargain DE/DT tweener in free agency with the cap space, Jared Odrick makes sense.
Quote:
and first 11 months might not include his 2nd year base salary since he technically doesn't get that until September 2018. So the $34M could just be his SB ($20M) plus his first year salary, plus a 2018 roster bonus.
Roster bonuses are easily converted to signing bonuses so that they can be amortized.
When was the last time this happened? Typically teams (Dallas with Smith/Frederick, Dolphins with Suh, etc) have large base salaries in years 2-3+ of the deal, which they then convert to a restructure bonus. Off hand, I don't recall the Giants touching roster bonuses other than as part of a restructure and/or paycut (e.g. Cruz).
When was the last time this happened?
Unknown until we see salary breakdown, but your estimates are about right. Could be more savings too.
Quote:
for a guy who's rarely been a consistent performer over a full season.
This^^^
Except he is one of the best DEs in the NFL. True he has missed time, but he's still top 5.
Quote:
Roster bonuses are easily converted to signing bonuses so that they can be amortized.
When was the last time this happened?
Then you tell me how you get to $34M in compensation over the first 11 months when the original signing bonus is $20M?
Sure. I'd start by looking at recent big deals the Giants have signed for Vernon, Jenkins, and Snacks. All 3 of these have a low year one base salary + signing bonus + year 1 roster bonus (paid now, not amortized).
So, for JPP we know his SB = $20M. I'll give him the same $1.75M base as Vernon and Snacks and also assume he's get $250k workout bonuses each of the 4 years. That's $22M total. Next, like the 3 above players, he's also likely to get a roster bonus in 2017. Let's make that the same as Vernon's ($7M). So now he's getting $29M between now and next February, which leaves a $5M roster bonus for next year (Note: these numbers change if it's really $34M in the first 2 seasons rather than first 11 months).
We also know that the total deal is $62M with $49.5M paid in the first 3 years (IIRC). That means his final year base salary is $12.25M (last $250k is the workout bonus)
2017: $1.75M B $5M SB $7M RB $0.25 WB = $14M cap hit
2018: $4M B $5M SB $5M RB $0.25 WB = $14.25M cap hit
2019: $11M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $16.25M cap hit
2020: $12.25M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $17.5M cap hit
Total: $62M
The cash flow is as follows: $22.5 million in 2017, $35 million through 2018, $49.5 million through 2019, and $62 million. Incentives can push the value of the contract to $66 million.
20M SB
Year 1 salary-6M(11M cap hit)
Year 2 salary-8M(13M cap hit)
Year 3 salary-13M(partially gtd)(18M cap hit)
Year 4 salary-19M(24M cap hit, 5M dead money if released)
He's (reportedly) getting $49.5M over the first 3 years with a $20M signing bonus ($5M against the cap per year). So there's no way his year 4 salary is $19M. It's $12.5M minus roster/workout bonuses due that year (based on the deals last year, I'd guess he gets $250k workout each year and only Jenkins receive a roster bonus outside of year 1).
2017: $1.75M B $5M SB $7M RB $0.25 WB = $14M cap hit
2018: $4M B $5M SB $5M RB $0.25 WB = $14.25M cap hit
2019: $11M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $16.25M cap hit
2020: $12.25M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $17.5M cap hit
Total: $62M
Quote:
Per a source with knowledge of the situation, its a four-year deal with a base value of $62 million. Of that amount, $29 million is fully guaranteed at signing.
The cash flow is as follows: $22.5 million in 2017, $35 million through 2018, $49.5 million through 2019, and $62 million. Incentives can push the value of the contract to $66 million.
If the $20M signing bonus report is true, this suggests a cap hit of $6.5M this year. I'm guessing there's a little bit of misinformation going on, but the exact numbers will come out within a couple of days, so no biggie.
If this is right it would be a $7.5M first year cap hit ($5M from SB + $2.5M base/other bonus).
And as I suspected, it's $34-35M through 2018, not the first 11 months. Based on this info, I would say the structure is:
2017: $1.75M base _ $5M sb _ $500k rb _ $0.25 wb = $7.5M cap hit
2018: $12.25M base ($6.5M gtd) _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
2019: $14.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $19.5M cap hit
2020: $12.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
Quote:
2017: $1.75M B $5M SB $7M RB $0.25 WB = $14M cap hit
2018: $4M B $5M SB $5M RB $0.25 WB = $14.25M cap hit
2019: $11M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $16.25M cap hit
2020: $12.25M B $5M SB $0.25 WB = $17.5M cap hit
Total: $62M
We'll see but I find it hard to believe that the Giants signed him to a 4 year $62M deal with $40M guaranteed just so they could shave $3M off of this year's cap.
They signed him to the deal so they'd have a (second) premier pass rusher locked up for 4 seasons.
That said, with the new info (assuming its accurate) about the $35M thru 2018 instead of 11 months, I've ammended this.
2018: $12.25M base ($6.5M gtd) _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
2019: $14.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $19.5M cap hit
2020: $12.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
I'm expecting it to look earily similar to this when the official numbers are released.
1. A man with 7 fingers
2. With proven immaturity issues (Prince in Tub/Fireworks)
3. And motivation issues (came to camp looking like Kevin James one year)
4. And injury concerns (Bad back/surgery and dinged all the time)
We can cut bait and move on without really crippling us in 2 years.
2018: $12.25M base ($6.5M gtd) _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
2019: $14.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $19.5M cap hit
2020: $12.25M base _ $5M sb _ $0.25 wb = $17.5M cap hit
I'm expecting it to look earily similar to this when the official numbers are released.
The one thing that stands out is his 2019 number since Eli's cap # will be $23.2M, Vernon's $19.5M, Jenkins $13.25M and Beckham will be starting his big money deal that season. Excluding Beckham, that's $75M in cap space for 4 players!
Maybe they'll structure Pugh & Richburg's deals to have cap hits below average in 2019.
+1
Robinson was great in pass coverage and would be great to bring him back for another year. Plus the Giants are an attractive destination for a vet RB, with really only Paul Perkins to contend with for the starting job.
Hoping Jamaal Charles lowers his asking price and accepts a 1 year vet minimum contract just to have a shot to be a starting RB again. Having a 1-2 combo of Charles and Perkins would be great, along with Shane Vereen on 3rd downs.
Vernon brought leadership and work ethic and dedication that fed into jpp both on and off the field
I'm sure snacks helped too
But they have no maturity concerns now
Vernon brought leadership and work ethic and dedication that fed into jpp both on and off the field
I'm sure snacks helped too
But they have no maturity concerns now
Is this your opinion or knowledge of the situation? I ask because it appeared as though the situation changed him and how he approaches things rather than his new teammates.
There's only so much you can do. What they were asking for was on par with market rate for top defensive ends.
The "giants have all the leverage" stuff is almost always fan fiction every time you hear it.
Also, I'm of the opinion that the team has always been much higher on him as a person and a player than fans here have been. They have been trying to get him signed long term for years, and stuck by him through everything.
If you're a team that doesn't trust a player or you're lukewarm on his effort or behavior, this is not how you demonstrate it.
maybe he is ready to finally become team CAPTAIN
Vernon brought leadership and work ethic and dedication that fed into jpp both on and off the field
I'm sure snacks helped too
But they have no maturity concerns now
I suspected this, tbh. Vernon and Snacks work ehtics and attitudes rubbing off on JPP doesn't surprise me.
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and they paid him more than I expected, JPP's camp must have really stood their ground well.
There's only so much you can do. What they were asking for was on par with market rate for top defensive ends.
The "giants have all the leverage" stuff is almost always fan fiction every time you hear it.
Also, I'm of the opinion that the team has always been much higher on him as a person and a player than fans here have been. They have been trying to get him signed long term for years, and stuck by him through everything.
If you're a team that doesn't trust a player or you're lukewarm on his effort or behavior, this is not how you demonstrate it.
Seeing what other DEs of lesser ability got and seeing OV with $85 mill, there was no way to get it under $14 mill/year.
In fairness, not a helluva lot of them have been healthy enough to get to the second contract and if so, were injury prone enough (i.e. Prince) not to pursue
Are you forgetting what happened to guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips or David Wilson? Or is the Coughlin worship just *that* pathetic?
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for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
Are you forgetting what happened to guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips or David Wilson? Or is the Coughlin worship just *that* pathetic?
I love how he completely ignores mentioning any of the context. Some people should just give it up, and go root for Jax already.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
If you want to issue a condemning statement you're obligated to be specific....what first round picks do you think he should have resigned?
Otherwise you're a cheap shot artist.
I'm here all week, folks.
Stick with the veal.
It's a lot of money on DL, but clearly that's where the Giants place their value on D (along w/DB, mainly CB). We have a great pair of bookend DE's who should essentially be at their prime age for the next few years. Along with Snacks, it's a scary DL even w/o Hankins. And now they have some cap room to possibly bring back big Hank (probably still not the most likely tho - they need to think about some other upcoming contracts like OBJ, Collins and Pugh etc), or a cheaper replacement and probable draft pick. I'd rather not lose one of those guys to pay a 4th DL.
Glad to get it done, now can move on to whatever's next (DT if no Hank, cover LB if not Robinson, DB depth, RB/TE/OL and the draft picks we'll add at those positions). I'm excited to see this roster fill out - a real nice core of good talent at key positions locked up for a few years - still a handful of guys coming up, but unfortunately when you hit on picks and sign FA's like we did last year, you may not be able to keep all the good picks or cheap backups who do well...
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for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
Are you forgetting what happened to guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips or David Wilson? Or is the Coughlin worship just *that* pathetic?
My statement had nothing to do with Coughlin. It was a factual statement regarding our GM's 1st round draft picks. I didn't forget what happened to players with injuries. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
Pugh will be the next eligible. If we apply the same standard of not being worth a second contract due to being often injured and missing games, then Pugh will not be extended. Still too early on OBJ, Flowers, and Apple.
Is this summary not factual? Again, not one mention of Coughlin in my response, but I'm sure you'll find some angle to drag him into the discussion.
If you want to issue a condemning statement you're obligated to be specific....what first round picks do you think he should have resigned?
Otherwise you're a cheap shot artist.
It's not a cheap shot. The condemnation is based in the factual summary of Jerry's ability to extend his own first round draft picks. In a decade, he has extended 1 of his first round picks to a multi-year contract. Interpret that simple statement how you will.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
But our former 1st round picks did continue to play. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
Congrats. Mission accomplished numbnutz.
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for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
In fairness, not a helluva lot of them have been healthy enough to get to the second contract and if so, were injury prone enough (i.e. Prince) not to pursue
Now that is the crux of it - not worthy to pursue. Injuries have derailed players careers (Philips and Wilson), and others (Ross, Nicks, Prince) had some injuries but were able to continue playing after their rookie contract. Apparently 2 of them were worthy enough to bring back on a 1yr contract.
Congrats. Mission accomplished numbnutz.
Attack the post not the poster. What was incorrect about my statement? Jerry Reese became the GM in Jan. 2007. Fact. In his decade of tenure, he has had 10 first round picks. OBJ, Flowers, and Apple are not eligible for second contracts. So out of 7 1st round draft picks, Jerry has managed to sign 1 to a multi-year contract. I'm aware of injuries. Some players (Phillips and Wilson) were forced out of the league due to their injuries. Others (Ross, Nicks, and Prince) managed to continue to play beyond their rookie contracts. The jury is still out regarding Pugh.
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In comment 13397463 Diver_Down said:
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for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
Are you forgetting what happened to guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips or David Wilson? Or is the Coughlin worship just *that* pathetic?
I love how he completely ignores mentioning any of the context. Some people should just give it up, and go root for Jax already.
What does my statement have to do with Jax? I've responded to others with the context.
Vernon brought leadership and work ethic and dedication that fed into jpp both on and off the field
I'm sure snacks helped too
But they have no maturity concerns now
This.
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Do people really think that Philips or Nicks were not going to get contracts if their careers were not wrecked by injuries. Never approached that point with Wilson.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
But our former 1st round picks did continue to play. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
This is a ridiculous point to try to pass off as legitimate discussion.
Rooting for his buddy to get a big payday or its Hanks turn to sign with NYG?
#its-Hanks-turn S/O to @nyg_teamphotographer for always being there to take great pictures for me.
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In comment 13397463 Diver_Down said:
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for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
Are you forgetting what happened to guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips or David Wilson? Or is the Coughlin worship just *that* pathetic?
My statement had nothing to do with Coughlin. It was a factual statement regarding our GM's 1st round draft picks. I didn't forget what happened to players with injuries. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
Pugh will be the next eligible. If we apply the same standard of not being worth a second contract due to being often injured and missing games, then Pugh will not be extended. Still too early on OBJ, Flowers, and Apple.
Is this summary not factual? Again, not one mention of Coughlin in my response, but I'm sure you'll find some angle to drag him into the discussion.
Lost me at Nicks. Nicks became a shell of himself due to leg injuries. Nicks would've signed a longterm deal as top 10 WR. Injuries derailed that. End of story
Yes he got another chance to hang on because he was a still just 25 formerly elite WR, but the point is he was worthy of a long-term deal if not for career-altering injuries.
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In comment 13397468 jcn56 said:
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In comment 13397463 Diver_Down said:
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for finally signing one of his first round draft picks to a multi-year contract. It has only taken a decade to get this monkey off his back.
Are you forgetting what happened to guys like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Phillips or David Wilson? Or is the Coughlin worship just *that* pathetic?
My statement had nothing to do with Coughlin. It was a factual statement regarding our GM's 1st round draft picks. I didn't forget what happened to players with injuries. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
Pugh will be the next eligible. If we apply the same standard of not being worth a second contract due to being often injured and missing games, then Pugh will not be extended. Still too early on OBJ, Flowers, and Apple.
Is this summary not factual? Again, not one mention of Coughlin in my response, but I'm sure you'll find some angle to drag him into the discussion.
Lost me at Nicks. Nicks became a shell of himself due to leg injuries. Nicks would've signed a longterm deal as top 10 WR. Injuries derailed that. End of story
Yes he got another chance to hang on because he was a still just 25 formerly elite WR, but the point is he was worthy of a long-term deal if not for career-altering injuries.
You place the criteria of "long-term" deal. My criteria was a multi-year contract. Jerry signed Ross, Nicks, and JPP to 1 year deals in the past. My low bar for him to clear is a contract that exceeds 1 year. Ross, Nicks, and Prince played for more than 1 year beyond their rookie contracts. Nowhere in my statements have I moved the goalposts to frame the critique that a "long-term" deal was required.
Don't hate me for saying it....it's simply true.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
Being that you copied and pasted your original response above, I'll copy and paste my response to your response. RE: Contract
Diver_Down : 7:25 pm : link : reply
In comment 13397472 stretch234 said:
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Do people really think that Philips or Nicks were not going to get contracts if their careers were not wrecked by injuries. Never approached that point with Wilson.
It was never a question about ability with either of the. If Prince stayed healthy he would be here.
Not receiving a second contract because of injury is far different than not getting one because you cant play
But our former 1st round picks did continue to play. Kenny and David are the only ones that were/are out of the league due to their injuries. The others were able to sign/play for other teams before being out of the league. Aaron Ross was good enough to latch on in Jax and good enough to resign with the Giants. Nicks was good enough to latch on in Ind and good enough to resign with the Giants. Prince was good enough to latch on with Jax and now Chicago.
Nobody - not the Giants FO, not the fans, no one - wanted Nicks to be let go before he was hurt. He was putting together a HoF worthy career before he was derailed. And it was only after it was clear he had nothing left that he left the building with no attempt to retain him. And even then, they brought him back with the hopes he might somehow be able to resurrect his career.
What happened to him was criminal, but to insinuate that somehow it was a failing by Reese or the FO, or that the player was anything less than worthy of a hefty second contract, is insulting.
Nobody - not the Giants FO, not the fans, no one - wanted Nicks to be let go before he was hurt. He was putting together a HoF worthy career before he was derailed. And it was only after it was clear he had nothing left that he left the building with no attempt to retain him. And even then, they brought him back with the hopes he might somehow be able to resurrect his career.
What happened to him was criminal, but to insinuate that somehow it was a failing by Reese or the FO, or that the player was anything less than worthy of a hefty second contract, is insulting.
I'm not trying to deceive anyone. Not trying to "slip one by". I'm setting a very low bar for Reese to hurdle. A multi-year contract is more than 1 year. A 2 year contract qualifies as a multi-year contract. Ross, Nicks, and Prince have all played for 2 years beyond their rookie contracts. Hence, they all could have qualified to have been signed to multi-year contracts.
I would appreciate if you would focus your criticism at my post and not myself. Don't confuse my criticism of the GM with my devotion to the team. One is capable for rooting for the team without endorsing the GM.
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Are you EVER not a negative, miserable person? Serious question because I've never seen you post a positive thing about this team. Why do you even watch? Don't you have a puppy to kick or something?
I would appreciate if you would focus your criticism at my post and not myself. Don't confuse my criticism of the GM with my devotion to the team. One is capable for rooting for the team without endorsing the GM.
This was a 11-5 team that has added a big productive WR (team need), a blocking TE (team need), a G/T (team need), hasn't lost anyone of any signifance (Hankins still in limbo) and the draft is still yet to come. Seems a strange time to be killing the GM, though I'm not surprised that you continue to do so. You've made your mind up. Reese sucks. Nothing will ever change your mind so you will continue to litter every single thread with your agenda. Lucky us!
Easy there killer
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
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He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
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In comment 13397730 est1986 said:
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He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
Sorry. Been a NYG fan since conception. That doesn't mean the team, or members of the FO, are immune from being criticized when warranted. The hard truth is Reese's poor job performance from 2008 thru 2012 contributed to the roster's deterioration that resulted in the team missing the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons, including the train-wreck seasons of 2013, 2014, and 2015. They've seemingly turned a corner, but to waste away the prime years of the best QB in franchise history as he's done is criminal.
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In comment 13397743 Rory said:
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In comment 13397738 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13397730 est1986 said:
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He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
Sorry. Been a NYG fan since conception. That doesn't mean the team, or members of the FO, are immune from being criticized when warranted. The hard truth is Reese's poor job performance from 2008 thru 2012 contributed to the roster's deterioration that resulted in the team missing the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons, including the train-wreck seasons of 2013, 2014, and 2015. They've seemingly turned a corner, but to waste away the prime years of the best QB in franchise history as he's done is criminal.
Why are you such a clown? You should just change your handle to: The_Cunt
Is it too much of a challenge for you to respond to a post without deferring to profanities? What The_Boss posted above is true. Because we root for our team doesn't mean that we have to agree with all facets of the organization. Someone above referenced that I think "Reese Sucks" which is the lazy narrative for any criticism of Jerry. Is he capable of the job? Sure. Has his past performance warranted the "In Reese We Trust" moniker that is thrown around? Not unless you are a homer.
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In comment 13397730 est1986 said:
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He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
He already does. He's an Eagles fan.
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In comment 13397738 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13397730 est1986 said:
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He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
Sorry. Been a NYG fan since conception. That doesn't mean the team, or members of the FO, are immune from being criticized when warranted. The hard truth is Reese's poor job performance from 2008 thru 2012 contributed to the roster's deterioration that resulted in the team missing the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons, including the train-wreck seasons of 2013, 2014, and 2015. They've seemingly turned a corner, but to waste away the prime years of the best QB in franchise history as he's done is criminal.
How anyone who calls himself a Giants fan can look at the 2008, 2009, and 2010 drafts and criticize Reese is beyond me.
In 2008, picking last in each round, the Giants got a starting FS, a starting CB, a complimentary WR, and a starting-caliber MIKE.
In 2009, picking late in each round, the Giants got a #1 WR and a starting LT.
In 2010, the Giants got an elite DE and a starting, run-stuffing DT.
Throw in a bunch of late-rounders who, at the very least, provided depth and special-teams play...add a couple of UDFAs who became major contributors...and let's not forget some very key free agent acquisitions, and it shouldn't be hard to see why the Giants won their second Super Bowl under Reese's tenure in 2011.
Is Reese God? Hardly. He's certainly made his share of mistakes. But he's also been the victim of a tremendous amount of bad luck and an inordinate amount of catastrophic injuries. My guess is that Eli gives him a lot more credit than some alleged fans do. After all, he's got two rings and two Super Bowl MVPs on his resume. Does Aaron Rogers? Does Drew Brees? Can Tony Romo? Can any other QB not named Brady or Roethlisberger make those claims? Nope.
So, oh, my paws and whiskers! Reese had to spend big in free agency last year to bolster a historically bad defense - a spending spree that was roundly criticized by pundits and fans alike, but which ended up being monumentally successful. A huge feather in his cap, in my opinion.
Criticism is fine when it's constructive. Incessant whining is not, but it's what we've come to expect from the usual suspects.
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In comment 13397750 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13397743 Rory said:
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In comment 13397738 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13397730 est1986 said:
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He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
Sorry. Been a NYG fan since conception. That doesn't mean the team, or members of the FO, are immune from being criticized when warranted. The hard truth is Reese's poor job performance from 2008 thru 2012 contributed to the roster's deterioration that resulted in the team missing the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons, including the train-wreck seasons of 2013, 2014, and 2015. They've seemingly turned a corner, but to waste away the prime years of the best QB in franchise history as he's done is criminal.
Why are you such a clown? You should just change your handle to: The_Cunt
Is it too much of a challenge for you to respond to a post without deferring to profanities? What The_Boss posted above is true. Because we root for our team doesn't mean that we have to agree with all facets of the organization. Someone above referenced that I think "Reese Sucks" which is the lazy narrative for any criticism of Jerry. Is he capable of the job? Sure. Has his past performance warranted the "In Reese We Trust" moniker that is thrown around? Not unless you are a homer.
Is it too hard not to bitch and moan about everything? Believe it or not, there are posters here that would love to talk about the Giants without The_Boss, Diver Down, and Doomster whining on every fucking thread. WE GET IT: THE OL SUCKS, REESE'S DRAFTS SUCKED for a few years BLAH BLAH BLAH..We get it. Men are trying to talk here.
Since then, he's drafted one of the best players in the NFL on offense (Beckham), traded up for an all pro safety (Collins), and added 3 MORE ALL PROS in Snacks, Vernon, Jenkins + DRC. But yeah, keep whining about the 2013 draft.
Nobody wants to be around the guy who bitches and moans all the time. If you're interested in having a discussion, I'd be more than happy to. But you seem more interested in venting your misery around here.
I'm sure I'm not the only poster who can do without The_Boss doing his "THE OL SUCKS I TOLD YOU SO" shtick, Doomster (who's a borderline troll) and Diver_Down polluting every thread like 15 year old girls.
Man the fuck up.
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In comment 13397880 drkenneth said:
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In comment 13397750 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13397743 Rory said:
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In comment 13397738 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13397730 est1986 said:
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He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
Sorry. Been a NYG fan since conception. That doesn't mean the team, or members of the FO, are immune from being criticized when warranted. The hard truth is Reese's poor job performance from 2008 thru 2012 contributed to the roster's deterioration that resulted in the team missing the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons, including the train-wreck seasons of 2013, 2014, and 2015. They've seemingly turned a corner, but to waste away the prime years of the best QB in franchise history as he's done is criminal.
Why are you such a clown? You should just change your handle to: The_Cunt
Is it too much of a challenge for you to respond to a post without deferring to profanities? What The_Boss posted above is true. Because we root for our team doesn't mean that we have to agree with all facets of the organization. Someone above referenced that I think "Reese Sucks" which is the lazy narrative for any criticism of Jerry. Is he capable of the job? Sure. Has his past performance warranted the "In Reese We Trust" moniker that is thrown around? Not unless you are a homer.
Is it too hard not to bitch and moan about everything? Believe it or not, there are posters here that would love to talk about the Giants without The_Boss, Diver Down, and Doomster whining on every fucking thread. WE GET IT: THE OL SUCKS, REESE'S DRAFTS SUCKED for a few years BLAH BLAH BLAH..We get it. Men are trying to talk here.
Since then, he's drafted one of the best players in the NFL on offense (Beckham), traded up for an all pro safety (Collins), and added 3 MORE ALL PROS in Snacks, Vernon, Jenkins + DRC. But yeah, keep whining about the 2013 draft.
Nobody wants to be around the guy who bitches and moans all the time. If you're interested in having a discussion, I'd be more than happy to. But you seem more interested in venting your misery around here.
I'm sure I'm not the only poster who can do without The_Boss doing his "THE OL SUCKS I TOLD YOU SO" shtick, Doomster (who's a borderline troll) and Diver_Down polluting every thread like 15 year old girls.
Man the fuck up.
Could not have said that better myself
If you're a tue blue fan you take the good with the bad
earned it by getting the two rings for this franchise
An Reese is close to assembling another winning team
There will be a day they are both gone and the Giants will be truly re-building
As I wrote earlier, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Please call me when you're ready to provide some.
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Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
As I wrote earlier, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Please call me when you're ready to provide some.
What further needs to be said? One poster called JR a god and I (accurately) said why we had to spend a boatload of cap $$ to improve the team. If Reese drafted better from 2008 thru 2012, chances are we'd have a strong enough roster to the point where we needed to import impact players from other rosters to the extent Reese had to. I'm not sure how anyone can dispute that. At the same time, by me stating that, how do posters have the nerve to call me a cunt? Let's try to have a semblance of respect around here. Jesus.
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In comment 13398084 The_Boss said:
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Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
As I wrote earlier, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Please call me when you're ready to provide some.
What further needs to be said? One poster called JR a god and I (accurately) said why we had to spend a boatload of cap $$ to improve the team. If Reese drafted better from 2008 thru 2012, chances are we'd have a strong enough roster to the point where we needed to import impact players from other rosters to the extent Reese had to. I'm not sure how anyone can dispute that. At the same time, by me stating that, how do posters have the nerve to call me a cunt? Let's try to have a semblance of respect around here. Jesus.
** where we wouldn't need to import... **
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In comment 13398084 The_Boss said:
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Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
As I wrote earlier, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. Please call me when you're ready to provide some.
What further needs to be said? One poster called JR a god and I (accurately) said why we had to spend a boatload of cap $$ to improve the team. If Reese drafted better from 2008 thru 2012, chances are we'd have a strong enough roster to the point where we needed to import impact players from other rosters to the extent Reese had to. I'm not sure how anyone can dispute that. At the same time, by me stating that, how do posters have the nerve to call me a cunt? Let's try to have a semblance of respect around here. Jesus.
I did dispute it, and I did so rather nicely. You just chose to ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative.
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In comment 13397738 The_Boss said:
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In comment 13397730 est1986 said:
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He has had good picks and bad picks like every GM. The good outweighs the bad. Minus Marvin Austin, Clint Sintim, a freak David Wilson injury (imagine him in this offense!), and Reuben Randle going full retarded.. Reese is god. Still praying on Flowers to pan out.
Reese is god? You do realize why he's had to spend so much in FA in the first place, right? If OBJ hadn't blown up the league in 2014, Reese might not even still be here.
Hey bossman , if you can't appreciate what Jerry Reese has done for the NY Giants since becoming the GM , feel free to root for another team.
He already does. He's an Eagles fan.
Fake news.
Funny you all still think this. Upon my registering, I was labeled a Philly fan because I had nerve to suggest the Eagles were better than the NYG. Well, they swept us in 2015.
What most of you have failed to learn is two fold:
1. I am a NYG fan
2. I am ALWAYS right regarding the NYG and this has been demonstrated time and time again on this site.
Klaatu +2
@Boss:
You're a one trick pony. You offer nothing of value to the forum. You repeat yourself over and over, and don't even attempt to take in all the information. As Klaatu pointed out (and several other posters have called you out on multiple threads for your BS), you clearly have an ax to grind, or are a troll (I've seen posts you are an Eagle fan?)
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Who get upset when someone has the stones to criticize the NYG. If you can't handle the truth go find someplace else where being a pu**y is accepted Internet behavior. Kenny can be your leader.
Klaatu +2
@Boss:
You're a one trick pony. You offer nothing of value to the forum. You repeat yourself over and over, and don't even attempt to take in all the information. As Klaatu pointed out (and several other posters have called you out on multiple threads for your BS), you clearly have an ax to grind, or are a troll (I've seen posts you are an Eagle fan?)
I offer nothing of value? Hypocrisy in its finest form. In a perfect world, I'd never stoop to your level of (atrocious) posting, but since you are compelled to attack every (100% accurate) post I opine here, I'm left very little choice but to defend my heightened level of intelligence.
Exhibit A
He's been better since 2013. I'm not debating that. Almost every unit is stronger today. And we finally saw the fruit of his efforts realized in 2016. People don't seem to recall just how devoid of talent this roster was.
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In Reese We Trust is all
He's been better since 2013. I'm not debating that. Almost every unit is stronger today. And we finally saw the fruit of his efforts realized in 2016. People don't seem to recall just how devoid of talent this roster was.
This roster, IMO, is the best its been since the GMEN of the mid to late 80s. And IMO Reese is one of the best if not the very best GM in all of football, at least as of lately. And yes this roster is night and day from 2013 no doubt. It took a few more years than expected to fix and there is still work to be done as there will always be but im beyond impressed with what we have on paper right now.