We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
I think OBJ doesn't have to be resigned until 2019 if they use the 5th year option on him.
We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
I think OBJ doesn't have to be resigned until 2019 if they use the 5th year option on him.
But my point is that his cap number will go up even with that 5th year option.
We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
I think OBJ doesn't have to be resigned until 2019 if they use the 5th year option on him.
This is true. In fact, we can kick the can using the franchise tag on OBJ and control his rights until 2020. There is no rush to back up the Brinks truck. If he stays healthy, he will get his money.
How so? It commits a high dollar single year cap charge, but it avoids the long-term commitment. With OBJ stature and the propensity to go across the middle, it is a risky venture that he has successfully been able to avoid injury. He deserves a higher salary based on his performance to date, but the organization should protect itself by avoiding a long-term commitment until it is absolutely necessary. If he stays healthy, back up the Brinks truck and pay him.
How so? It commits a high dollar single year cap charge, but it avoids the long-term commitment. With OBJ stature and the propensity to go across the middle, it is a risky venture that he has successfully been able to avoid injury. He deserves a higher salary based on his performance to date, but the organization should protect itself by avoiding a long-term commitment until it is absolutely necessary. If he stays healthy, back up the Brinks truck and pay him.
This thread is about the 2018 cap space. Having Beckham play under the 5th year option or playing under the FT doesn't kick the can down the road. It makes you pay all the money up front. A long term deal allows you to kick the can down the road.
How so? It commits a high dollar single year cap charge, but it avoids the long-term commitment. With OBJ stature and the propensity to go across the middle, it is a risky venture that he has successfully been able to avoid injury. He deserves a higher salary based on his performance to date, but the organization should protect itself by avoiding a long-term commitment until it is absolutely necessary. If he stays healthy, back up the Brinks truck and pay him.
This thread is about the 2018 cap space. Having Beckham play under the 5th year option or playing under the FT doesn't kick the can down the road. It makes you pay all the money up front. A long term deal allows you to kick the can down the road.
I don't think that is the Giant's plan. I think that the next several years are premised on the idea that they will lock up key players when they can, but that the guy who will require a true "franchise contract"- Beckham- will have to wait until Eli is off the cap.
In short, the Giants understand that with Eli taking between 12-15% of the cap himself annually, they cannot add a second contract of that nature until Eli's contract expires.
I suspect that the Giants will gladly exercise Beckham's 5th year option- because it will be well below market value. It also buys them a year under Eli's deal.
After the 2018, the Giants can either play Beckham under the tag or negotiate a long term deal in which the first year's cap hit would be VERY low cap hit- with a big increase in 2020- when Eli's contract is off the cap.
In fact, just about every contract the Giants have expires in 2019 or 2020. That is also intentionally designed for paying Beckham and reworking the team.
The Giants will definitely pick up the fifth year option on Beckham.
I never said they wouldn't. I simply said that cap number reported doesn't factor in such moves as Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. Therefore, it is tough to guage where we are really at in comparison to every other team.
I wouldn't be surprised if OBJ gets a deal done this summer
I understand all the advantages of having him play out his option year and then tagging him in 2019, but that strategy assumes OBJ simply accepts that the Giants control his rights. Don't count on it. If he makes a stink, it will be hard for the Giants to win the P.R. battle when he is so significantly underpaid compared to the contribution he has made to the team.
And who could blame him if he holds out of training camp? He is due $1.8M salary and has a market value of $17M/year (the bar set by Antonio Brown). If he holds out of the first ten weeks of the season and then reports before week 11, he gets credit for the accrued season.
If you were his agent, what would you advise him? All jokes aside...
We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
You can subtract ~$9M for Beckham's option and you can subtract another $6.9M for this years draft class, assuming the first 5 picks all stick.
Draft pick estimate based off 2017 cap hits for last years picks:
Apple - $3.44M
Shepard - $1.35M
Thompson - $820k
Goodson - $685k
Perkins - $603k
So $58M - $9M - $7M = $42M remaining and that doesn't include Pugh and Richburg. Also, looking at OTC, it doesn't appear to have any numbers for JPP beyond 2017, so you can probably subtract another ~$15M in cap space for him.
In other words, after accounting for JPP, Beckham, 2017 draft picks, Pugh and Richburg, the Giants don't currently have a lot of cap space projected for 2018.
If OBJ wasn't so mentally unstable (or whatever you want to call it)
Giving him an extension this summer would be a foregone conclusion.
First they would pick up the 5th year option in May, thus making OBJ officially under a 5 year contract. As a five year contract, everything beyond that is considered an extension and "new money" and his $1.8M salary this year and ~$10M option year money considered old money. So if they agree to give him the same amount of "new money" as Antonio Brown received, a $68M four year extension would in reality be six year $80M deal (roughly speaking).
In the long run, if OBJ is healthy and productive throughout his career, the Giants will have saved money by doing it this summer instead of in 2019 when top-of-the-line receivers will be getting $20M/year.
While I wouldn't rule that out it would surprise me. Beckham seems all about winning and helping his team win. He loves playing. He can be criticized for a l9t of things and one of them being immature but he is not dumb. He is smart. I don't think holding out will help him. I think he also wants that championship and realizes that these opportunities don't come around too often. He will get paid and it is better to keep a good relationship with the Giants to get a long term deal worked out.
I'd be surprised if he gets an extension before next offseason. There's arguably more incentive for the Giants to do it now, than Beckham.
There will be some big time WRs that are likely to get close to Brown or potentially even surpass him. I'm not saying they're all better, but some of them have advantages over Brown (i.e. younger) and Brown's deal didn't blow the roof off the WR market so the others will look to get close or surpass it slightly, especially if they wait until next offseason.
Hopkins - with a bounce back year, can see him besting Brown
Landry - could push $15M+
Cooks - will have option picked up
Jeffery - could break $15M if he stays healthy and has a big year
Watkins - no clue if they pick up option
Evans - option will be picked up
If I'm Beckham's agent, I seriously consider waiting at least until Hopkins and Evans get extensions as both of those guys have legit chances to top Brown's $17M and it's an easy argument to make that Beckham is the best WR of all.
RE: If OBJ wasn't so mentally unstable (or whatever you want to call it)
Giving him an extension this summer would be a foregone conclusion.
First they would pick up the 5th year option in May, thus making OBJ officially under a 5 year contract. As a five year contract, everything beyond that is considered an extension and "new money" and his $1.8M salary this year and ~$10M option year money considered old money. So if they agree to give him the same amount of "new money" as Antonio Brown received, a $68M four year extension would in reality be six year $80M deal (roughly speaking).
In the long run, if OBJ is healthy and productive throughout his career, the Giants will have saved money by doing it this summer instead of in 2019 when top-of-the-line receivers will be getting $20M/year.
They would save money long term but they would take a decent cap hit this year. Since the Giants have limited money available this year they are better keeping that money open to continue improving the team this year to increase the chances of a championship. We have a lot of holes to fill still. It doesn't mean we will but any extension wouldn't happen until the end of the preseason at the earliest to see where we stand with injuries and any moves that might be made to fix and perceived needs.
RE: If OBJ wasn't so mentally unstable (or whatever you want to call it)
Giving him an extension this summer would be a foregone conclusion.
First they would pick up the 5th year option in May, thus making OBJ officially under a 5 year contract. As a five year contract, everything beyond that is considered an extension and "new money" and his $1.8M salary this year and ~$10M option year money considered old money. So if they agree to give him the same amount of "new money" as Antonio Brown received, a $68M four year extension would in reality be six year $80M deal (roughly speaking).
In the long run, if OBJ is healthy and productive throughout his career, the Giants will have saved money by doing it this summer instead of in 2019 when top-of-the-line receivers will be getting $20M/year.
You assume it's the Giants that may not be interested in a deal now and that if the Giants 'just' offered $18M per (plus the 5th year option) that Beckham would sign it immediately. IMO, that's a stretch as that $17M for the top WR could easily go up between now and when Beckham becomes a UFA in 2019.
I believe Calvin Johnson's deal (and Fitzs?) averaged more than $17M so there's always the chance that Beckham and his agent feel he should be the highest paid WR ever. Which isn't a stretch considering he's arguably been the best WR ever through the first 3 seasons of a players career.
the cap is about 25-30 million. If they add Hankins, then subtract another 7-8 million.
So, really they have about 20 million in cap space. Probably just enough to sign Richburg and Pugh. I actually don't think they will sign Richburg but in any case, Giants will basically have enough to resign their own players and maybe add maybe a 1A free agent.
That makes the next two drafts really important if you are looking at Eli as a three year window
We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
You can subtract ~$9M for Beckham's option and you can subtract another $6.9M for this years draft class, assuming the first 5 picks all stick.
Draft pick estimate based off 2017 cap hits for last years picks:
Apple - $3.44M
Shepard - $1.35M
Thompson - $820k
Goodson - $685k
Perkins - $603k
So $58M - $9M - $7M = $42M remaining and that doesn't include Pugh and Richburg. Also, looking at OTC, it doesn't appear to have any numbers for JPP beyond 2017, so you can probably subtract another ~$15M in cap space for him.
In other words, after accounting for JPP, Beckham, 2017 draft picks, Pugh and Richburg, the Giants don't currently have a lot of cap space projected for 2018.
Draft picks displace other players on the roster, so the net impact is ~$2.5M less than you describe (assuming all displaced players only make the minimum and carry no dead money). That draft class is also based on the 11th slot. While the spread isn't quite as dramatic as it used to be, there still is a sliding decrease as you pick later in each round. Even factoring for standard YOY increases to the rookie wages (I don't know if that's even something that happens), the net effect of the rookie class on the cap is likely to be <$5M.
RE: RE: RE: That is with 39 players under contract?
We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
You can subtract ~$9M for Beckham's option and you can subtract another $6.9M for this years draft class, assuming the first 5 picks all stick.
Draft pick estimate based off 2017 cap hits for last years picks:
Apple - $3.44M
Shepard - $1.35M
Thompson - $820k
Goodson - $685k
Perkins - $603k
So $58M - $9M - $7M = $42M remaining and that doesn't include Pugh and Richburg. Also, looking at OTC, it doesn't appear to have any numbers for JPP beyond 2017, so you can probably subtract another ~$15M in cap space for him.
In other words, after accounting for JPP, Beckham, 2017 draft picks, Pugh and Richburg, the Giants don't currently have a lot of cap space projected for 2018.
Draft picks displace other players on the roster, so the net impact is ~$2.5M less than you describe (assuming all displaced players only make the minimum and carry no dead money). That draft class is also based on the 11th slot. While the spread isn't quite as dramatic as it used to be, there still is a sliding decrease as you pick later in each round. Even factoring for standard YOY increases to the rookie wages (I don't know if that's even something that happens), the net effect of the rookie class on the cap is likely to be <$5M.
I didn't verify,but I believe the OP said only 39 players were signed for 2018, so the rookies won't be displacing anyone.
I think OBJ doesn't have to be resigned until 2019 if they use the 5th year option on him.
Quote:
We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
I think OBJ doesn't have to be resigned until 2019 if they use the 5th year option on him.
But my point is that his cap number will go up even with that 5th year option.
Quote:
We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
I think OBJ doesn't have to be resigned until 2019 if they use the 5th year option on him.
This is true. In fact, we can kick the can using the franchise tag on OBJ and control his rights until 2020. There is no rush to back up the Brinks truck. If he stays healthy, he will get his money.
How so? It commits a high dollar single year cap charge, but it avoids the long-term commitment. With OBJ stature and the propensity to go across the middle, it is a risky venture that he has successfully been able to avoid injury. He deserves a higher salary based on his performance to date, but the organization should protect itself by avoiding a long-term commitment until it is absolutely necessary. If he stays healthy, back up the Brinks truck and pay him.
Quote:
.
How so? It commits a high dollar single year cap charge, but it avoids the long-term commitment. With OBJ stature and the propensity to go across the middle, it is a risky venture that he has successfully been able to avoid injury. He deserves a higher salary based on his performance to date, but the organization should protect itself by avoiding a long-term commitment until it is absolutely necessary. If he stays healthy, back up the Brinks truck and pay him.
This thread is about the 2018 cap space. Having Beckham play under the 5th year option or playing under the FT doesn't kick the can down the road. It makes you pay all the money up front. A long term deal allows you to kick the can down the road.
Quote:
In comment 13397901 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
.
How so? It commits a high dollar single year cap charge, but it avoids the long-term commitment. With OBJ stature and the propensity to go across the middle, it is a risky venture that he has successfully been able to avoid injury. He deserves a higher salary based on his performance to date, but the organization should protect itself by avoiding a long-term commitment until it is absolutely necessary. If he stays healthy, back up the Brinks truck and pay him.
This thread is about the 2018 cap space. Having Beckham play under the 5th year option or playing under the FT doesn't kick the can down the road. It makes you pay all the money up front. A long term deal allows you to kick the can down the road.
I don't think that is the Giant's plan. I think that the next several years are premised on the idea that they will lock up key players when they can, but that the guy who will require a true "franchise contract"- Beckham- will have to wait until Eli is off the cap.
In short, the Giants understand that with Eli taking between 12-15% of the cap himself annually, they cannot add a second contract of that nature until Eli's contract expires.
I suspect that the Giants will gladly exercise Beckham's 5th year option- because it will be well below market value. It also buys them a year under Eli's deal.
After the 2018, the Giants can either play Beckham under the tag or negotiate a long term deal in which the first year's cap hit would be VERY low cap hit- with a big increase in 2020- when Eli's contract is off the cap.
In fact, just about every contract the Giants have expires in 2019 or 2020. That is also intentionally designed for paying Beckham and reworking the team.
And who could blame him if he holds out of training camp? He is due $1.8M salary and has a market value of $17M/year (the bar set by Antonio Brown). If he holds out of the first ten weeks of the season and then reports before week 11, he gets credit for the accrued season.
If you were his agent, what would you advise him? All jokes aside...
You can subtract ~$9M for Beckham's option and you can subtract another $6.9M for this years draft class, assuming the first 5 picks all stick.
Draft pick estimate based off 2017 cap hits for last years picks:
Apple - $3.44M
Shepard - $1.35M
Thompson - $820k
Goodson - $685k
Perkins - $603k
So $58M - $9M - $7M = $42M remaining and that doesn't include Pugh and Richburg. Also, looking at OTC, it doesn't appear to have any numbers for JPP beyond 2017, so you can probably subtract another ~$15M in cap space for him.
In other words, after accounting for JPP, Beckham, 2017 draft picks, Pugh and Richburg, the Giants don't currently have a lot of cap space projected for 2018.
First they would pick up the 5th year option in May, thus making OBJ officially under a 5 year contract. As a five year contract, everything beyond that is considered an extension and "new money" and his $1.8M salary this year and ~$10M option year money considered old money. So if they agree to give him the same amount of "new money" as Antonio Brown received, a $68M four year extension would in reality be six year $80M deal (roughly speaking).
In the long run, if OBJ is healthy and productive throughout his career, the Giants will have saved money by doing it this summer instead of in 2019 when top-of-the-line receivers will be getting $20M/year.
There will be some big time WRs that are likely to get close to Brown or potentially even surpass him. I'm not saying they're all better, but some of them have advantages over Brown (i.e. younger) and Brown's deal didn't blow the roof off the WR market so the others will look to get close or surpass it slightly, especially if they wait until next offseason.
Hopkins - with a bounce back year, can see him besting Brown
Landry - could push $15M+
Cooks - will have option picked up
Jeffery - could break $15M if he stays healthy and has a big year
Watkins - no clue if they pick up option
Evans - option will be picked up
If I'm Beckham's agent, I seriously consider waiting at least until Hopkins and Evans get extensions as both of those guys have legit chances to top Brown's $17M and it's an easy argument to make that Beckham is the best WR of all.
First they would pick up the 5th year option in May, thus making OBJ officially under a 5 year contract. As a five year contract, everything beyond that is considered an extension and "new money" and his $1.8M salary this year and ~$10M option year money considered old money. So if they agree to give him the same amount of "new money" as Antonio Brown received, a $68M four year extension would in reality be six year $80M deal (roughly speaking).
In the long run, if OBJ is healthy and productive throughout his career, the Giants will have saved money by doing it this summer instead of in 2019 when top-of-the-line receivers will be getting $20M/year.
They would save money long term but they would take a decent cap hit this year. Since the Giants have limited money available this year they are better keeping that money open to continue improving the team this year to increase the chances of a championship. We have a lot of holes to fill still. It doesn't mean we will but any extension wouldn't happen until the end of the preseason at the earliest to see where we stand with injuries and any moves that might be made to fix and perceived needs.
First they would pick up the 5th year option in May, thus making OBJ officially under a 5 year contract. As a five year contract, everything beyond that is considered an extension and "new money" and his $1.8M salary this year and ~$10M option year money considered old money. So if they agree to give him the same amount of "new money" as Antonio Brown received, a $68M four year extension would in reality be six year $80M deal (roughly speaking).
In the long run, if OBJ is healthy and productive throughout his career, the Giants will have saved money by doing it this summer instead of in 2019 when top-of-the-line receivers will be getting $20M/year.
You assume it's the Giants that may not be interested in a deal now and that if the Giants 'just' offered $18M per (plus the 5th year option) that Beckham would sign it immediately. IMO, that's a stretch as that $17M for the top WR could easily go up between now and when Beckham becomes a UFA in 2019.
I believe Calvin Johnson's deal (and Fitzs?) averaged more than $17M so there's always the chance that Beckham and his agent feel he should be the highest paid WR ever. Which isn't a stretch considering he's arguably been the best WR ever through the first 3 seasons of a players career.
So, really they have about 20 million in cap space. Probably just enough to sign Richburg and Pugh. I actually don't think they will sign Richburg but in any case, Giants will basically have enough to resign their own players and maybe add maybe a 1A free agent.
That makes the next two drafts really important if you are looking at Eli as a three year window
Quote:
We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
You can subtract ~$9M for Beckham's option and you can subtract another $6.9M for this years draft class, assuming the first 5 picks all stick.
Draft pick estimate based off 2017 cap hits for last years picks:
Apple - $3.44M
Shepard - $1.35M
Thompson - $820k
Goodson - $685k
Perkins - $603k
So $58M - $9M - $7M = $42M remaining and that doesn't include Pugh and Richburg. Also, looking at OTC, it doesn't appear to have any numbers for JPP beyond 2017, so you can probably subtract another ~$15M in cap space for him.
In other words, after accounting for JPP, Beckham, 2017 draft picks, Pugh and Richburg, the Giants don't currently have a lot of cap space projected for 2018.
Draft picks displace other players on the roster, so the net impact is ~$2.5M less than you describe (assuming all displaced players only make the minimum and carry no dead money). That draft class is also based on the 11th slot. While the spread isn't quite as dramatic as it used to be, there still is a sliding decrease as you pick later in each round. Even factoring for standard YOY increases to the rookie wages (I don't know if that's even something that happens), the net effect of the rookie class on the cap is likely to be <$5M.
Quote:
In comment 13397890 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
We know we will have to re-sign Pugh, Richburg, Beckham, etc. so it is hard to get a good read on that number until we do those extensions and fill out the rest of our roster.
You can subtract ~$9M for Beckham's option and you can subtract another $6.9M for this years draft class, assuming the first 5 picks all stick.
Draft pick estimate based off 2017 cap hits for last years picks:
Apple - $3.44M
Shepard - $1.35M
Thompson - $820k
Goodson - $685k
Perkins - $603k
So $58M - $9M - $7M = $42M remaining and that doesn't include Pugh and Richburg. Also, looking at OTC, it doesn't appear to have any numbers for JPP beyond 2017, so you can probably subtract another ~$15M in cap space for him.
In other words, after accounting for JPP, Beckham, 2017 draft picks, Pugh and Richburg, the Giants don't currently have a lot of cap space projected for 2018.
Draft picks displace other players on the roster, so the net impact is ~$2.5M less than you describe (assuming all displaced players only make the minimum and carry no dead money). That draft class is also based on the 11th slot. While the spread isn't quite as dramatic as it used to be, there still is a sliding decrease as you pick later in each round. Even factoring for standard YOY increases to the rookie wages (I don't know if that's even something that happens), the net effect of the rookie class on the cap is likely to be <$5M.
I didn't verify,but I believe the OP said only 39 players were signed for 2018, so the rookies won't be displacing anyone.