1.JPP/Snacks/Vernon back together
2. Marshall signing was a flawless acquisition for "win now"
3. Ellison will indirectly improve the OL play/run game
4. Fluker's a perfect low risk huge reward signing
Ellison, Marshall, and a 1st-3rd round pick @ guard (I want Flowers/Fluker @ T)
Flowers Pugh Richburg Rookie Fluker - lot of youth/talent to coach up.
Because of the franchise of JPP, we lost out on the best
and it getting Fluker on a cheap, one year "prove it" deal is a worthwhile gamble. I really like the Ellison signing and think he will be a boon to the run game. I'm pretty happy with FA, especially given the limited resources.
Other than a possible Bennett signing for TE, I believe they hit on multiple needs. There was not a 900 LB LT. The Marshall signing is an exact prototype of a big bully receiver that Eli needs.
But the cost was definitely prohibitive, so I can understand why they didn't. I just hope that they don't force any early OL picks in the draft.
I like the Marshall signing a lot. I think he'll more than prove his worth on 3rd down and in the red zone.
I have mixed feelings about the Ellison signing. I see him as Bear Pascoe 2.0, so maybe he cost a bit more than he should have, but if his blocking is up to par...if he can open some holes for out RBs and give a major assist to out OTS then I'd say he was worth the cost. We'll see.
At this point, I'm good with it. Didn't expect much in terms of OL help, there were slim pickings and the market was insanely expensive. Hankins priced himself outside of what I believed was a reasonable range (which itself was IMO outside of what the Giants considered a reasonable range).
Thought Ellison was a good pickup albeit maybe slightly overpaid (not by much, because even decent players in FA have been making good money).
Won't comment on Robinson as we haven't lost him yet and I think he might be the byproduct of the rest of the Giants strong defense. I'd rather have him back, but won't lose too much sleep if he signs elsewhere.
Finally, Fluker for Newhouse seems like a plus for the OL, although we still need another tackle.
All in all, I'd say B+. I'm really happy to have JPP back, even if it wasn't cheap.
Marshall: A+ (109 catches and 1500 yards in 2015. Even if he has lost a step, he takes on added value next to OBJ)
JPP: A (Price was high but you needed to bring him back)
Fluker: A- (good, low-cost gamble)
Jerry:B (continuity is important but is anyone looking forward to 30+ Jerry?)
Ellison: C- (big $$$ for a blocking TE. Points to Giants poor midround drafting. This is the type of guy you can pick up in the 4-5th rounds just about every year. He is also 20-30 lbs lighter than guys like Howard Cross and Dan Campbell. Maybe they had to sign him but only because they painted themselves into a corner. I still think they would have been better off waiting to see who was cut by other teams in training camp. Chances are they could have gotten a guy this good for nothing).
I also think the Giants will bring back Hankins. That means the offense will have gotten better without sacrificing D.
To come out of this two year period with so much money invested in two defensive ends and major questions on the offensive line is very risky, and not how I would have handled the situation. Some of the moves were really good also.
Overall it seems to me that the mindset is to try to get a title shot before Eli retires. I can appreciate that, but it's not the comprehensive team building strategy I would prefer.
We're possibly setting up for some dark days post Eli. It didn't have to be that way.
We've done better than we could expect on a limited budget. A dominant defense wins more big games than a great offense. As for O, Marshall gives us both a red-zone and move-the-chains threats, leaving OBJ for the take-it-to-the-house threat. Shepard will be even better with more experience and less pressure.
If Fluker and Ellison can buy Eli just one more second of protection...
We're possibly setting up for some dark days post Eli. It didn't have to be that way.
That's the opposite of what the Giants did - what you suggested would've been indicative of the Giants trying to win one last time.
Trying to shove money into FA OL pockets when the talent didn't exist would have resulted in weakening the defense. Last year they spent an ungodly sum of money to build a strong defense, and this year they plied some more into keeping it intact. With what they had left, they sought value into pieces for the offense.
'Win now' would've been address the most glaring holes at any cost, and they didn't do that. That would have compromised the future in a big way.
Made a likely lateral move on the OL.
May be taking a step back on D with losing Hankins.
I love the Marshall pick up, but I'm very much in the camp of those who think the OL is still a glaring weakness, and if we can't protect Eli, that signing is neutralized. I understand the "who were we supposed to sign" mindset, but definitely frustrating.
I also thought we desperately need a 3rd pass rushing end, and I haven't seen that talked about much. Having no viable option to spell our 2 highly paid ends has "injury risk" written all over it. Also, the pressure that was generated from only rushing 4 last year left a lot to be desired, a lot of sacks and "pressures" resulted from coverage, at least in my eyes (though to give credit where credit is due, when we brought more than 4 guys, as well as late in games, the pressure was getting there, I'm not completely jaded, haha). They're one big injury from being really exposed. I hoped it would be a high round pick if we could shore up the offensive line and retain JPP and Hankins, which looks like it won't happen.
To sum up, I thought our 2 biggest needs were on the OL and DL, with WR and TE 3rd and 4th respectively (which I think they hit a homer in with both). Thus far, they made a lateral move on the OL, and took a step back on the DL, so I'm a little disappointed. That being said, what the fuck do I know? Haha.
I said it last year and I will say it again. Out OL can derail our season and Flowers in particular. I wpuld have brought in competition for him the last 2 years before this. It didn't happen. This year the price for OL was crazy. Hard to blame the Giants for not getting a better offensive lineman. I also would like to have Pugh and Flowers battle it out for the LT spot. What is our contingency plan? I don't want to here he is young. As a manager you have to plan for the worst and hope for the best. When it comes to Flowers we just seem to focus in the latter part.
If Flower plays well then the others moves seem very solid. If not then it doesn't matter if Reggie White was brought in on our defense. We would have wasted another year of Eli's limited time left in this league.
Yes, we still have the draft but I don't believe we are taking an OL at 23. I like Ramczyk (I haven't done enough research on the other OL around that point like Bolles, Robinson, and Lamp) and if his medicals check out he would be a possibility at 23 along woth some others. But I don't believe they will draft another OL that high with all things being equal. If the OL is clearly the highest on our board then yes.
They have been linked to Davenport. Would another OL be a possibility to start? I keep hearing "project" with these other players. That doesn't bode well with our history of developing projects along the OL later in the draft.
We still need more pass rushers whether that is at LB and/or DE. We need another DT, S, CB, TE, RB or 2, and possibly another WR.
So, as of now it is incomplete for me. Maybe we can strike gold with some vets that were let go in the near future. We also need to see how this draft unfolds.
Let me just ask a question, if Flowers sucks again or gets injured then what is our plan? Do we move Pugh? Who plays LG?
Also, are we going to expand on our offense from last year? I am not just talking about the personnel groupings. I am talking about helping our OTs. We rarely did that last year. I have made this point before. I understand our TEs sucked last year but when they were asked to block it seemed like a lot of one on one blocking as opposed to helping the OTs. Also, I do not remember any chipoing by our backs at all. Is it the style of offense where the ball is supposed to come out quick so the backs don't have enough time to chip and get into their route? Our backs blocked but, once again, it was more one on one. I think if these subtle changes happen then we can see improved play from our OL.
we could have paid those crazy contracts, those OLmen got....
As it stands, we have too much of the cap invested in three DLmen....if just one of them goes down, there is no depth to this line.....
I think we paid too much for JPP....can only hope, that he stays healthy, and that he has the incentive to play, fueled by the fact of who he has on the opposite side.....I hope each, is a measuring bar for the other...I remember back in '61, Mantle would hit one....the next day Maris would hit one...they fed off each other....hope the same happens for our two DE's....
Each year we get excited after free agency and the draft, and then reality sets in....fortunately, we stayed away from major injuries, for the most part last year, and that led to a successful season....
If Eli can get a few more weapons from the draft, even with an average OL, I think he will be able to put points on the board.....but we have to be lucky like last year, to avoid major injuries....we also need our young guys to step up.....Collins had a huge sophomore year, and was one of the reasons for the defense's success....can only hope than Perkins, Shepard, and maybe even Adams take that next step....on defense maybe Okwara and Apple, too...
I don't think we can afford Hankins, so his replacement has to be found....it is not Bromley...
And can Adams stay on the field at FS, another huge question mark? We have no backups at either safety position...we got away with Adams last season....that won't happen this season....teams will attack the weakness of this defense, and he was one of them...
As for the linebackers, the best of what we have is Kennard and Casillas, who I don't even feel are average(Goodson, has shown nothing, yet)....they make a play here and there, but for the most part, they scare no one......it would be great if we could find a LB needle in the haystack draft, but it all depends on what is there when we pick.....I still feel the 1st and 2nd rounds should go for offensive weapons....
If we can somehow bring back either Hankins or Robinson and add depth to the CB position, it would be a super good offseason even though we really didn't address the OL I believe with the additions of Marshall and Ellison, our run game should improve.
I know I'm in the minority here but I feel that continuity on the line with modest improvement + a blocking tight end + a healthy Vereen + better downfield blocking from Marshall is going to make the Giants offense money on third down.
We have eight Safeties on the roster now. The Giants will most likely keep four or five on the final 53. How can you say we have no depth at the position?
I like the focus on the defensive side of the ball. It's where championships are won and lost. What good has a shiny high powered offense done for the Giants when the defense was not good. All that gave us was sub .500 teams. Flip it around and the record was 11-5.
I think the Giants made the offense better and kept the defense good.
The Giants are putting all the chips on the table. They know the Eli Manning Era is winding down and they are maximizing resources accordingly.
I love what they've done.
They've largely kept the defense in tact and they've addressed glaring weakness at WR and TE.
If they draft best player at position of need in the draft in the first few picks, I think that fits. I hope they don't reach in the draft, but I do thing they look a little more closely this year at immediate impact. Although my dark horse RD 1 pick is a CB, just because when DRC can't play, it's noticeably felt.
With the Marshall and Ellison signings, they're setting themselves up for the offense to be better than last year, which everyone knew they needed to do. OL is probably a wash as of right now which isn't comforting at all but at least Fluker has some potentially and they can add more in the draft.
If they can bring back Hankins and add a vet RB, I'll be feeling pretty damn good heading into the draft. Still plenty of needs at that point including TE, OL, CB, DL, LB but they'll be set up pretty nicely.
Peterson/Charles/Blount plus Hankins, if they somehow have the space this year to make that happen, would be pretty awesome. They could use some talent and experience at RB. I like Perkins a lot but I don't know if I want to see a young rookie paired with him unless that rookie is a stud.
would be nice ... and then we'd be back in the same hole 2 years from now. Flowers is still young, hopefully can be coached up [I'm assuming he's week 1 LT]
I also don't think this teams window is short ... dominant defense with young talent on offense ... gear towards OL/defense and you can still be somewhat competitive even without the "franchise" QB [t helps, obviously]. I don't think this ship sinks when Eli retires, they just need to build an OL similar to Dallas' strategy and keep guys like Collins/Beckham in blue.
Marshall, Ellison, Fluker, and resigning JPP for a reasonable contract. Also not acceding to Hankins's ridiculous contract demands, or overpaying for FA OL.
Would have liked to sign Robinson, and have no interest in Smith. Jerry sort of meh. Thought we overpaid, but his play did improve last year.
Considering up against the cap this year, not any "quality" FA's esp
given what was out there and how much $ they had to work with.
Marshall and Ellison should make positive impacts on the O.
Dt's are a whole lot easier to obtain than quality OL
But with the way the game has evolved in the NFL I think the Jints are screwed until they replace Eli with a mobile qb. That won't happen imo for another year or two
Bring back Hank or add one more piece on Offense or Defense
the JPP deal as it stands was done before the 9th; all things being equal we might have picked up a better than or additional OL to Fluker that was NOT JJerry.
Especially in a weak OL draft.
the JPP deal as it stands was done before the 9th; all things being equal we might have picked up a better than or additional OL to Fluker that was NOT JJerry.
Especially in a weak OL draft.
I understand all the moves they've made, but if they lose both Hankins
and Robinson, they aren't coming out any better than they went in and staying around the same is usually the same as going backwards in the NFL.
Adding a rich man's Bear Pascoe and current day Marshall isn't enough to offset those losses, if they happen, given how the defense will likely have to carry them again with how terrible their OT play is likely to be (and I'm not saying they should have broken the bank for any of the OL on the market; there was no one worth it... they got dealt the wrong hand for the wrong time on that front).
They're in a spot where they now need to really nail it in the draft, either adding a big defensive piece or somehow finding OL help that can immediately contribute.
But we're haven't closed the gap much on the top 4 teams in the conference. In the end, shouldn't that be the goal? Hopefully the draft is fruitful for us. Before some of you jump on me for posting my opinion, check Raanan's FA piece yesterday on ESPN. He essentially said the exact same thing. I think we are, at the very least, a virtual lock for a WC. A HR draft can elevate us.
Ellison - B- Solid but overpaid
JPP - B Concerned about his injury history
Fluker - C His last two years have been poor
2 backup qb's - B Whichever one wins will be ok in that role.
Still hoping we sign Keenan Robinson and Zach Brown
This is a really good haul for the money they had. Folks tend not to count "signing your own" as a FA pickup but it is. JPP is as good a signing as most anyone had this year. Adding other pieces as well and this is a very good effort. And they may not be done.
At least one side of it. Eli,the receivers,Perkins are all useless without protection and blocking. Defense was pretty solid when JPP was out.
Only really cracked when DRC went down. JPP hasn't been great since 2011. Unless he becomes that guy again we overpaid big time.
Geno Smith is going to run an offense that counts on the QB presnap reading the defense and then calling the play? A rapid fire offense? A guy who had problems running basic WC schemes? With this Oline? This one makes me wonder.
RE: Because of the franchise of JPP, we lost out on the best
The Giants didn't have much to begin with, but it seems to me they made the most of their limited resources.
Now they need another good, solid draft (and that includes UDFAs), and I wouldn't be surprised if they rounded things out after the draft with some low-priced free agent signings for depth/insurance.
It also wouldn't hurt if their second and third-year guys stepped up their games a bit.
RE: As I've said- slightly improved today than at the end of the year
But we're haven't closed the gap much on the top 4 teams in the conference. In the end, shouldn't that be the goal? Hopefully the draft is fruitful for us. Before some of you jump on me for posting my opinion, check Raanan's FA piece yesterday on ESPN. He essentially said the exact same thing. I think we are, at the very least, a virtual lock for a WC. A HR draft can elevate us.
You don't think they've closed the gap on Dallas? Seriously? Dallas lost their entire secondary, among other things, including probably Romo. The Giants didn't have to make a single move and that gap has closed simply based on Dallas coming back to the pack with huge losses
But we're haven't closed the gap much on the top 4 teams in the conference. In the end, shouldn't that be the goal? Hopefully the draft is fruitful for us. Before some of you jump on me for posting my opinion, check Raanan's FA piece yesterday on ESPN. He essentially said the exact same thing. I think we are, at the very least, a virtual lock for a WC. A HR draft can elevate us.
You don't think they've closed the gap on Dallas? Seriously? Dallas lost their entire secondary, among other things, including probably Romo. The Giants didn't have to make a single move and that gap has closed simply based on Dallas coming back to the pack with huge losses
Dallas also lost the right side of their OL (Leary to Denver, Free to retirement)
RE: As I've said- slightly improved today than at the end of the year
But we're haven't closed the gap much on the top 4 teams in the conference. In the end, shouldn't that be the goal? Hopefully the draft is fruitful for us. Before some of you jump on me for posting my opinion, check Raanan's FA piece yesterday on ESPN. He essentially said the exact same thing. I think we are, at the very least, a virtual lock for a WC. A HR draft can elevate us.
Dallas lost the right side of their offensive line. Their defense is still below average and they had no cap room to make major additions to improve.
Seattle continues to see its championship window close. They're not far from an overhaul as Wilson eats up more of their cap.
GB and ATL got better with Martellus to the Packers and Poe to Atlanta
Knowing how limited our money was this year, I like where we're going. The OL must improve to not bring us down, but the money paid to below avg. linemen (Remmers?, Kahil?), no way we we should pay that, never mind the Whitworth Zeitler money. Jpp was my #1 priority, and I was banging the table that Brandon would give us a discount.
I'm not ruling out a 1st rd OL. As much as everyone keeps saying it's a terrible draft for OL's, there's 3-5 graded right at 23. I'd love another weapon, but give me protection and holes for the weapons we have.
Have worked the cap as well as can be expected.....draft needs reduced
The one thing I feared was that they would go into the draft saying we need to draft a ?????? Since they got a large WR,a blocking Tight end, a backup QB, Fluker + Khaled Holmes (he could provide interior OL depth) and resigned JPP, we closed up some of the most glaring holes. With the draft being so deep, you want them to be able to take the best players available @ 23 and 55, especially if someone highly ranked happens to fall. I wish I had a list of all the prospects people have said, "will not be there at 23!" because, to be honest, there would be more than 23 on that list...someone will fall to 23 and probably to 55. I really feel at 88, we could get a real good RB if we don't take one earlier. It would be nice to get Hankins and Robinson back but we will see!
has his moment to shine. Hes not just a blocking TE. He can be weapon as well. He just nvr had a shot being rudolphs backup. He has experience as a FB. That can hopefully create a personal of him n adams out there together. Also keeping vereen n having him out there picking up blitzes is huge. I just hope mcadoo n the giants will use the flexibility we should now have instead of being predictable again. N hope he still has trust in Eli. N get back to some 3plus wr sets n let eli do what hes great at. I kno running the football is huge. I am in the camp of Eli still has it n dont want to totally turn into a conservative ground n pound team. We should be able to actually open up some leads for once with our D n Eli putting that final nail in the opponents coffin. As long as we can run n block better. Hopefully that opens things up for Eli to start carving up Ds again.
but it is an alternative fact. Leary started at left guard. Martin is the right guard. Hankins blew Martin up in both games which is why I want to resign Hankins.
One of the reasons Reese had money to spend last year is that he didn't piss away big bucks on average talent. I think he continued down that route again. The available OL free agents were way overpaid either in salary or length of contract. And, for the most part, thry were not a major upgrade over Fluker except the old man who got the 3 year deal.
Also, TEs coming out of college generally don't block. And that was a major deficiency on the roster last year. They corrected the problem and sre now in s position to draft one of these matchup college TEs in a mid round. Marshall is a huge upgrade over Cruz and when you factor in his blocking, not many college WRs bring to the table what he does and a 2 year deal.
With not a lot of money to spend, and I don't think they restructured anybody, they're going into the draft without critical needs - at least those that could have been fixed by free agency in a responsible way. I also expect a premium pick to be used on the OL since that is still the big weakness. All in all I think they did ok considering the money situation and what was available
but it is an alternative fact. Leary started at left guard. Martin is the right guard. Hankins blew Martin up in both games which is why I want to resign Hankins.
They also have lost their whole starting secondary from last year.
I think JR has always been pretty good at knowing when to hold 'em and knowing when to fold 'em. Knowing when to walk away and knowing when to run. He never counts his money, when he's sitting at the table...
Ok, enough of that.
Yeah, I think getting JPP was terrific. I think TE was a huge problem for the offense and I'm interested to see how Ellison contributes to the team. I like the Flukker signing but don't expect too much from it. I love the Marshall get and think the deal JR signed him to was just right. There wasn't any one FA out there that I thought was critical for the Giants to sign beside JPP. Would love to keep Big Hank (but not for $10M per) and thought BM would be a terrific addition.
So, yeah, feeling pretty good.
I will say though, my concerns with JR have been his production in the draft. So let's not get too excited just yet.
RE: As I've said- slightly improved today than at the end of the year
But we're haven't closed the gap much on the top 4 teams in the conference. In the end, shouldn't that be the goal? Hopefully the draft is fruitful for us. Before some of you jump on me for posting my opinion, check Raanan's FA piece yesterday on ESPN. He essentially said the exact same thing. I think we are, at the very least, a virtual lock for a WC. A HR draft can elevate us.
This is such a worthless chalk post.
We haven't closed the gap? Who are the top 4 teams?
A draft can elevate us? No shit, that's the driving force behind the good teams year to year.
Tagging JPP and getting him signed to a long term deal is huge.
Brandon Marshall is a very good signing especially for the price. He will help take pressure off of OBJ & Shep.
Ellison is a solid signing. Can play FB, HB, TE, specials.
I know I'm in the minority but I love the Fluker signing. I wish it was for Joh Jerrys contract though. I have a feeling he will do well and then we won't be able to sign him next year.
Jerry re-signing is ok. He is at least a starter if we can't upgrade in the draft.
Johnson, Wynn, Tye and Darkwa are all cheap depth.
Begin back DeOssie is very good. Pro bowler.
Hankins and Robinson may leave which sucks but I am still hopeful we bring one of them back.
Looking forward to the draft. Maybe we get a new TE or LB in round 1??!
Still some potential moves out there to be made...
and let Bromley and/or perhaps a draft choice "hold the fort" and really fixed the OL. As someone said earlier Whitworth was the only real solid OT available. That said, I like Hankins, and if they can bring him back for a decent price, great.
Marshall. I like the Marshall signing if he's not a locker room problem. He's a legit #2 WR (DESPERATELY NEEDED) who's going to make teams pay for doubling OBJ.
Fluker upgrades the run-blocking on the right side of the OL (also DESPERATELY NEEDED), but unless the bulb finally goes on for him, it doesn't upgrade the pass protection.
Who the hell knows what the damn OL will look like this year? Different, yes. Better? Not necessarily. Maybe they have some luck finding some help in the draft.
John Jerry - the guy already knows the system which likely puts him ahead of any available FA replacements -- probably cheaper, too. Hopefully he finally becomes a backup.
Blocking TE/FB -- HELL YES, please. Let's see them run more than one formation. But it still doesn't address that Tye sucks and Adams isn't a solid starter yet. They MUST upgrade the TE position in the draft and it's a great year to do so.
JPP -- JPP is a good player who wanted to be paid like a great player, but he hasn't been that since he was surrounded by other great DLs. With his age, injury history, and production (not to mention a history of jack-assedry) I don't think he's worth the contract he got. But there were no better options available for a team that is in win-now mode. Problem is, even if he plays 16 games and logs 10+ sacks, the Giants STILL need another pass-rusher to go with him and Vernon. The two of them alone just don't get to the QB enough.
Josh Johnson. Fine. Hope he never gets a snap.
Geno Smith. Hate it. Locker room douche. Hope he never gets a snap. Don't get it.
If they draft a QB, one of these guys will get cut.
would be nice ... and then we'd be back in the same hole 2 years from now. Flowers is still young, hopefully can be coached up [I'm assuming he's week 1 LT]
I also don't think this teams window is short ... dominant defense with young talent on offense ... gear towards OL/defense and you can still be somewhat competitive even without the "franchise" QB [t helps, obviously]. I don't think this ship sinks when Eli retires, they just need to build an OL similar to Dallas' strategy and keep guys like Collins/Beckham in blue.
signing Whitworth would have given us an extension in time to find a younger player and develop him and by that time Eli would be most likely finished..
given the little room he had cap wise . I still don't
like the O-line unless they decide to make another move
to add another starter . Going with Flowers at LT ?
Jerry and Hart/Fluker .
I fine with Marshal huge need blocking TE will help .
don't like the RB situation need a TE that can run the
seam . Most likely an edge rusher and MLB .
This^^^ plus looking up JPP make it a good FA period for me. Hoping to see Robinson back. And hoping Fluker gives decent play!
I thought that very little would change on defense.
I thought they would sign one middle of the road o-linemen because I didn't think they would have enough money to be players in the space.
I thought they would sign a starting TE (and maybe we did?) but I'm not sold yet.
They exceed my expectations at WR because I thought they most we would get is an average #2 guy or we just address this hole in the draft.
2. Marshall signing was a flawless acquisition for "win now"
3. Ellison will indirectly improve the OL play/run game
4. Fluker's a perfect low risk huge reward signing
Ellison, Marshall, and a 1st-3rd round pick @ guard (I want Flowers/Fluker @ T)
Flowers Pugh Richburg Rookie Fluker - lot of youth/talent to coach up.
whitworth wouldve been nice, but we'd be having the same conversation in 2 years.
I like the Marshall signing a lot. I think he'll more than prove his worth on 3rd down and in the red zone.
I have mixed feelings about the Ellison signing. I see him as Bear Pascoe 2.0, so maybe he cost a bit more than he should have, but if his blocking is up to par...if he can open some holes for out RBs and give a major assist to out OTS then I'd say he was worth the cost. We'll see.
Thought Ellison was a good pickup albeit maybe slightly overpaid (not by much, because even decent players in FA have been making good money).
Won't comment on Robinson as we haven't lost him yet and I think he might be the byproduct of the rest of the Giants strong defense. I'd rather have him back, but won't lose too much sleep if he signs elsewhere.
Finally, Fluker for Newhouse seems like a plus for the OL, although we still need another tackle.
All in all, I'd say B+. I'm really happy to have JPP back, even if it wasn't cheap.
JPP: A (Price was high but you needed to bring him back)
Fluker: A- (good, low-cost gamble)
Jerry:B (continuity is important but is anyone looking forward to 30+ Jerry?)
Ellison: C- (big $$$ for a blocking TE. Points to Giants poor midround drafting. This is the type of guy you can pick up in the 4-5th rounds just about every year. He is also 20-30 lbs lighter than guys like Howard Cross and Dan Campbell. Maybe they had to sign him but only because they painted themselves into a corner. I still think they would have been better off waiting to see who was cut by other teams in training camp. Chances are they could have gotten a guy this good for nothing).
I also think the Giants will bring back Hankins. That means the offense will have gotten better without sacrificing D.
I thought that very little would change on defense.
I thought they would sign one middle of the road o-linemen because I didn't think they would have enough money to be players in the space.
I thought they would sign a starting TE (and maybe we did?) but I'm not sold yet.
They exceed my expectations at WR because I thought they most we would get is an average #2 guy or we just address this hole in the draft.
Isn't Fluker a middle of the road o-lineman
Overall it seems to me that the mindset is to try to get a title shot before Eli retires. I can appreciate that, but it's not the comprehensive team building strategy I would prefer.
We're possibly setting up for some dark days post Eli. It didn't have to be that way.
If Fluker and Ellison can buy Eli just one more second of protection...
We're possibly setting up for some dark days post Eli. It didn't have to be that way.
That's the opposite of what the Giants did - what you suggested would've been indicative of the Giants trying to win one last time.
Trying to shove money into FA OL pockets when the talent didn't exist would have resulted in weakening the defense. Last year they spent an ungodly sum of money to build a strong defense, and this year they plied some more into keeping it intact. With what they had left, they sought value into pieces for the offense.
'Win now' would've been address the most glaring holes at any cost, and they didn't do that. That would have compromised the future in a big way.
The OL still scares the hell out of me though. I just can't imagine Flowers at LT come week 1.
May be taking a step back on D with losing Hankins.
I love the Marshall pick up, but I'm very much in the camp of those who think the OL is still a glaring weakness, and if we can't protect Eli, that signing is neutralized. I understand the "who were we supposed to sign" mindset, but definitely frustrating.
I also thought we desperately need a 3rd pass rushing end, and I haven't seen that talked about much. Having no viable option to spell our 2 highly paid ends has "injury risk" written all over it. Also, the pressure that was generated from only rushing 4 last year left a lot to be desired, a lot of sacks and "pressures" resulted from coverage, at least in my eyes (though to give credit where credit is due, when we brought more than 4 guys, as well as late in games, the pressure was getting there, I'm not completely jaded, haha). They're one big injury from being really exposed. I hoped it would be a high round pick if we could shore up the offensive line and retain JPP and Hankins, which looks like it won't happen.
To sum up, I thought our 2 biggest needs were on the OL and DL, with WR and TE 3rd and 4th respectively (which I think they hit a homer in with both). Thus far, they made a lateral move on the OL, and took a step back on the DL, so I'm a little disappointed. That being said, what the fuck do I know? Haha.
If Flower plays well then the others moves seem very solid. If not then it doesn't matter if Reggie White was brought in on our defense. We would have wasted another year of Eli's limited time left in this league.
Yes, we still have the draft but I don't believe we are taking an OL at 23. I like Ramczyk (I haven't done enough research on the other OL around that point like Bolles, Robinson, and Lamp) and if his medicals check out he would be a possibility at 23 along woth some others. But I don't believe they will draft another OL that high with all things being equal. If the OL is clearly the highest on our board then yes.
They have been linked to Davenport. Would another OL be a possibility to start? I keep hearing "project" with these other players. That doesn't bode well with our history of developing projects along the OL later in the draft.
We still need more pass rushers whether that is at LB and/or DE. We need another DT, S, CB, TE, RB or 2, and possibly another WR.
So, as of now it is incomplete for me. Maybe we can strike gold with some vets that were let go in the near future. We also need to see how this draft unfolds.
Let me just ask a question, if Flowers sucks again or gets injured then what is our plan? Do we move Pugh? Who plays LG?
Also, are we going to expand on our offense from last year? I am not just talking about the personnel groupings. I am talking about helping our OTs. We rarely did that last year. I have made this point before. I understand our TEs sucked last year but when they were asked to block it seemed like a lot of one on one blocking as opposed to helping the OTs. Also, I do not remember any chipoing by our backs at all. Is it the style of offense where the ball is supposed to come out quick so the backs don't have enough time to chip and get into their route? Our backs blocked but, once again, it was more one on one. I think if these subtle changes happen then we can see improved play from our OL.
As it stands, we have too much of the cap invested in three DLmen....if just one of them goes down, there is no depth to this line.....
I think we paid too much for JPP....can only hope, that he stays healthy, and that he has the incentive to play, fueled by the fact of who he has on the opposite side.....I hope each, is a measuring bar for the other...I remember back in '61, Mantle would hit one....the next day Maris would hit one...they fed off each other....hope the same happens for our two DE's....
Each year we get excited after free agency and the draft, and then reality sets in....fortunately, we stayed away from major injuries, for the most part last year, and that led to a successful season....
If Eli can get a few more weapons from the draft, even with an average OL, I think he will be able to put points on the board.....but we have to be lucky like last year, to avoid major injuries....we also need our young guys to step up.....Collins had a huge sophomore year, and was one of the reasons for the defense's success....can only hope than Perkins, Shepard, and maybe even Adams take that next step....on defense maybe Okwara and Apple, too...
I don't think we can afford Hankins, so his replacement has to be found....it is not Bromley...
And can Adams stay on the field at FS, another huge question mark? We have no backups at either safety position...we got away with Adams last season....that won't happen this season....teams will attack the weakness of this defense, and he was one of them...
As for the linebackers, the best of what we have is Kennard and Casillas, who I don't even feel are average(Goodson, has shown nothing, yet)....they make a play here and there, but for the most part, they scare no one......it would be great if we could find a LB needle in the haystack draft, but it all depends on what is there when we pick.....I still feel the 1st and 2nd rounds should go for offensive weapons....
: )
They still need to re-sign Hankins at a reasonable number, and some of the remaining UFA defensive depth.
I think the Giants made the offense better and kept the defense good.
I love what they've done.
They've largely kept the defense in tact and they've addressed glaring weakness at WR and TE.
If they draft best player at position of need in the draft in the first few picks, I think that fits. I hope they don't reach in the draft, but I do thing they look a little more closely this year at immediate impact. Although my dark horse RD 1 pick is a CB, just because when DRC can't play, it's noticeably felt.
If they can bring back Hankins and add a vet RB, I'll be feeling pretty damn good heading into the draft. Still plenty of needs at that point including TE, OL, CB, DL, LB but they'll be set up pretty nicely.
Peterson/Charles/Blount plus Hankins, if they somehow have the space this year to make that happen, would be pretty awesome. They could use some talent and experience at RB. I like Perkins a lot but I don't know if I want to see a young rookie paired with him unless that rookie is a stud.
Once he was gone, I think that Reese did all he could do to incrementally improve the team.
I still want Big Hank back...otherwise the defense has a new hole to fill.
I also don't think this teams window is short ... dominant defense with young talent on offense ... gear towards OL/defense and you can still be somewhat competitive even without the "franchise" QB [t helps, obviously]. I don't think this ship sinks when Eli retires, they just need to build an OL similar to Dallas' strategy and keep guys like Collins/Beckham in blue.
Marshall, Ellison, Fluker, and resigning JPP for a reasonable contract. Also not acceding to Hankins's ridiculous contract demands, or overpaying for FA OL.
Would have liked to sign Robinson, and have no interest in Smith. Jerry sort of meh. Thought we overpaid, but his play did improve last year.
The draft may be same (considering down at #23) as most top teir will be off the board likely then.
Offense may be the same as last season as far as execution and play, but hoping that defense can still carry this team like last season.
Marshall and Ellison should make positive impacts on the O.
Dt's are a whole lot easier to obtain than quality OL
But with the way the game has evolved in the NFL I think the Jints are screwed until they replace Eli with a mobile qb. That won't happen imo for another year or two
Especially in a weak OL draft.
Especially in a weak OL draft.
Adding a rich man's Bear Pascoe and current day Marshall isn't enough to offset those losses, if they happen, given how the defense will likely have to carry them again with how terrible their OT play is likely to be (and I'm not saying they should have broken the bank for any of the OL on the market; there was no one worth it... they got dealt the wrong hand for the wrong time on that front).
They're in a spot where they now need to really nail it in the draft, either adding a big defensive piece or somehow finding OL help that can immediately contribute.
JPP - B Concerned about his injury history
Fluker - C His last two years have been poor
2 backup qb's - B Whichever one wins will be ok in that role.
If the Raiders, who have a ton of cap space coupled with a huge need at LB, couldn't come to terms with Brown, what makes you think the Giants can?
As for Robinson, I have no idea what he's looking for, but I'd be very hesitant to give him a long-term deal because of his injury history.
I can certainly see the Giants waiting until after the draft to sign a lower-priced free agent LB (or two).
Hankins? His reported demands are nothing short of ridiculous.
Not if Dontari Poe got only a year at $7.5M
Poe > Hankins
The bad: Contract for Ellison, the OL isnt better, & RB depth blows.
Marshall and JPP playing like studs fixing just about everything.
Marshall is such a prefect fit.
JPP signed for more but $$$ are nuts but deal is better then the tag.
I feel Fluker in a new environment can prove worthy.....we still need another tackle.
I am perfectly find with the new blocking TE
Only really cracked when DRC went down. JPP hasn't been great since 2011. Unless he becomes that guy again we overpaid big time.
Geno Smith is going to run an offense that counts on the QB presnap reading the defense and then calling the play? A rapid fire offense? A guy who had problems running basic WC schemes? With this Oline? This one makes me wonder.
This is gonna be one of the more annoying and likely false narratives of this offseason.
Now they need another good, solid draft (and that includes UDFAs), and I wouldn't be surprised if they rounded things out after the draft with some low-priced free agent signings for depth/insurance.
It also wouldn't hurt if their second and third-year guys stepped up their games a bit.
You don't think they've closed the gap on Dallas? Seriously? Dallas lost their entire secondary, among other things, including probably Romo. The Giants didn't have to make a single move and that gap has closed simply based on Dallas coming back to the pack with huge losses
Quote:
But we're haven't closed the gap much on the top 4 teams in the conference. In the end, shouldn't that be the goal? Hopefully the draft is fruitful for us. Before some of you jump on me for posting my opinion, check Raanan's FA piece yesterday on ESPN. He essentially said the exact same thing. I think we are, at the very least, a virtual lock for a WC. A HR draft can elevate us.
You don't think they've closed the gap on Dallas? Seriously? Dallas lost their entire secondary, among other things, including probably Romo. The Giants didn't have to make a single move and that gap has closed simply based on Dallas coming back to the pack with huge losses
Dallas also lost the right side of their OL (Leary to Denver, Free to retirement)
Dallas lost the right side of their offensive line. Their defense is still below average and they had no cap room to make major additions to improve.
Seattle continues to see its championship window close. They're not far from an overhaul as Wilson eats up more of their cap.
GB and ATL got better with Martellus to the Packers and Poe to Atlanta
I'm not ruling out a 1st rd OL. As much as everyone keeps saying it's a terrible draft for OL's, there's 3-5 graded right at 23. I'd love another weapon, but give me protection and holes for the weapons we have.
Also, TEs coming out of college generally don't block. And that was a major deficiency on the roster last year. They corrected the problem and sre now in s position to draft one of these matchup college TEs in a mid round. Marshall is a huge upgrade over Cruz and when you factor in his blocking, not many college WRs bring to the table what he does and a 2 year deal.
With not a lot of money to spend, and I don't think they restructured anybody, they're going into the draft without critical needs - at least those that could have been fixed by free agency in a responsible way. I also expect a premium pick to be used on the OL since that is still the big weakness. All in all I think they did ok considering the money situation and what was available
They also have lost their whole starting secondary from last year.
Ok, enough of that.
Yeah, I think getting JPP was terrific. I think TE was a huge problem for the offense and I'm interested to see how Ellison contributes to the team. I like the Flukker signing but don't expect too much from it. I love the Marshall get and think the deal JR signed him to was just right. There wasn't any one FA out there that I thought was critical for the Giants to sign beside JPP. Would love to keep Big Hank (but not for $10M per) and thought BM would be a terrific addition.
So, yeah, feeling pretty good.
I will say though, my concerns with JR have been his production in the draft. So let's not get too excited just yet.
This is such a worthless chalk post.
We haven't closed the gap? Who are the top 4 teams?
A draft can elevate us? No shit, that's the driving force behind the good teams year to year.
Brandon Marshall is a very good signing especially for the price. He will help take pressure off of OBJ & Shep.
Ellison is a solid signing. Can play FB, HB, TE, specials.
I know I'm in the minority but I love the Fluker signing. I wish it was for Joh Jerrys contract though. I have a feeling he will do well and then we won't be able to sign him next year.
Jerry re-signing is ok. He is at least a starter if we can't upgrade in the draft.
Johnson, Wynn, Tye and Darkwa are all cheap depth.
Begin back DeOssie is very good. Pro bowler.
Hankins and Robinson may leave which sucks but I am still hopeful we bring one of them back.
Looking forward to the draft. Maybe we get a new TE or LB in round 1??!
Marshall. I like the Marshall signing if he's not a locker room problem. He's a legit #2 WR (DESPERATELY NEEDED) who's going to make teams pay for doubling OBJ.
Fluker upgrades the run-blocking on the right side of the OL (also DESPERATELY NEEDED), but unless the bulb finally goes on for him, it doesn't upgrade the pass protection.
Who the hell knows what the damn OL will look like this year? Different, yes. Better? Not necessarily. Maybe they have some luck finding some help in the draft.
John Jerry - the guy already knows the system which likely puts him ahead of any available FA replacements -- probably cheaper, too. Hopefully he finally becomes a backup.
Blocking TE/FB -- HELL YES, please. Let's see them run more than one formation. But it still doesn't address that Tye sucks and Adams isn't a solid starter yet. They MUST upgrade the TE position in the draft and it's a great year to do so.
JPP -- JPP is a good player who wanted to be paid like a great player, but he hasn't been that since he was surrounded by other great DLs. With his age, injury history, and production (not to mention a history of jack-assedry) I don't think he's worth the contract he got. But there were no better options available for a team that is in win-now mode. Problem is, even if he plays 16 games and logs 10+ sacks, the Giants STILL need another pass-rusher to go with him and Vernon. The two of them alone just don't get to the QB enough.
Josh Johnson. Fine. Hope he never gets a snap.
Geno Smith. Hate it. Locker room douche. Hope he never gets a snap. Don't get it.
If they draft a QB, one of these guys will get cut.
I also don't think this teams window is short ... dominant defense with young talent on offense ... gear towards OL/defense and you can still be somewhat competitive even without the "franchise" QB [t helps, obviously]. I don't think this ship sinks when Eli retires, they just need to build an OL similar to Dallas' strategy and keep guys like Collins/Beckham in blue.
signing Whitworth would have given us an extension in time to find a younger player and develop him and by that time Eli would be most likely finished..
like the O-line unless they decide to make another move
to add another starter . Going with Flowers at LT ?
Jerry and Hart/Fluker .
I fine with Marshal huge need blocking TE will help .
don't like the RB situation need a TE that can run the
seam . Most likely an edge rusher and MLB .