1.JPP/Snacks/Vernon back together
2. Marshall signing was a flawless acquisition for "win now"
3. Ellison will indirectly improve the OL play/run game
4. Fluker's a perfect low risk huge reward signing
Ellison, Marshall, and a 1st-3rd round pick @ guard (I want Flowers/Fluker @ T)
Flowers Pugh Richburg Rookie Fluker - lot of youth/talent to coach up.
Because of the franchise of JPP, we lost out on the best
and it getting Fluker on a cheap, one year "prove it" deal is a worthwhile gamble. I really like the Ellison signing and think he will be a boon to the run game. I'm pretty happy with FA, especially given the limited resources.
Other than a possible Bennett signing for TE, I believe they hit on multiple needs. There was not a 900 LB LT. The Marshall signing is an exact prototype of a big bully receiver that Eli needs.
But the cost was definitely prohibitive, so I can understand why they didn't. I just hope that they don't force any early OL picks in the draft.
I like the Marshall signing a lot. I think he'll more than prove his worth on 3rd down and in the red zone.
I have mixed feelings about the Ellison signing. I see him as Bear Pascoe 2.0, so maybe he cost a bit more than he should have, but if his blocking is up to par...if he can open some holes for out RBs and give a major assist to out OTS then I'd say he was worth the cost. We'll see.
At this point, I'm good with it. Didn't expect much in terms of OL help, there were slim pickings and the market was insanely expensive. Hankins priced himself outside of what I believed was a reasonable range (which itself was IMO outside of what the Giants considered a reasonable range).
Thought Ellison was a good pickup albeit maybe slightly overpaid (not by much, because even decent players in FA have been making good money).
Won't comment on Robinson as we haven't lost him yet and I think he might be the byproduct of the rest of the Giants strong defense. I'd rather have him back, but won't lose too much sleep if he signs elsewhere.
Finally, Fluker for Newhouse seems like a plus for the OL, although we still need another tackle.
All in all, I'd say B+. I'm really happy to have JPP back, even if it wasn't cheap.
Marshall: A+ (109 catches and 1500 yards in 2015. Even if he has lost a step, he takes on added value next to OBJ)
JPP: A (Price was high but you needed to bring him back)
Fluker: A- (good, low-cost gamble)
Jerry:B (continuity is important but is anyone looking forward to 30+ Jerry?)
Ellison: C- (big $$$ for a blocking TE. Points to Giants poor midround drafting. This is the type of guy you can pick up in the 4-5th rounds just about every year. He is also 20-30 lbs lighter than guys like Howard Cross and Dan Campbell. Maybe they had to sign him but only because they painted themselves into a corner. I still think they would have been better off waiting to see who was cut by other teams in training camp. Chances are they could have gotten a guy this good for nothing).
I also think the Giants will bring back Hankins. That means the offense will have gotten better without sacrificing D.
To come out of this two year period with so much money invested in two defensive ends and major questions on the offensive line is very risky, and not how I would have handled the situation. Some of the moves were really good also.
Overall it seems to me that the mindset is to try to get a title shot before Eli retires. I can appreciate that, but it's not the comprehensive team building strategy I would prefer.
We're possibly setting up for some dark days post Eli. It didn't have to be that way.
We've done better than we could expect on a limited budget. A dominant defense wins more big games than a great offense. As for O, Marshall gives us both a red-zone and move-the-chains threats, leaving OBJ for the take-it-to-the-house threat. Shepard will be even better with more experience and less pressure.
If Fluker and Ellison can buy Eli just one more second of protection...
We're possibly setting up for some dark days post Eli. It didn't have to be that way.
That's the opposite of what the Giants did - what you suggested would've been indicative of the Giants trying to win one last time.
Trying to shove money into FA OL pockets when the talent didn't exist would have resulted in weakening the defense. Last year they spent an ungodly sum of money to build a strong defense, and this year they plied some more into keeping it intact. With what they had left, they sought value into pieces for the offense.
'Win now' would've been address the most glaring holes at any cost, and they didn't do that. That would have compromised the future in a big way.
Made a likely lateral move on the OL.
May be taking a step back on D with losing Hankins.
I love the Marshall pick up, but I'm very much in the camp of those who think the OL is still a glaring weakness, and if we can't protect Eli, that signing is neutralized. I understand the "who were we supposed to sign" mindset, but definitely frustrating.
I also thought we desperately need a 3rd pass rushing end, and I haven't seen that talked about much. Having no viable option to spell our 2 highly paid ends has "injury risk" written all over it. Also, the pressure that was generated from only rushing 4 last year left a lot to be desired, a lot of sacks and "pressures" resulted from coverage, at least in my eyes (though to give credit where credit is due, when we brought more than 4 guys, as well as late in games, the pressure was getting there, I'm not completely jaded, haha). They're one big injury from being really exposed. I hoped it would be a high round pick if we could shore up the offensive line and retain JPP and Hankins, which looks like it won't happen.
To sum up, I thought our 2 biggest needs were on the OL and DL, with WR and TE 3rd and 4th respectively (which I think they hit a homer in with both). Thus far, they made a lateral move on the OL, and took a step back on the DL, so I'm a little disappointed. That being said, what the fuck do I know? Haha.
I said it last year and I will say it again. Out OL can derail our season and Flowers in particular. I wpuld have brought in competition for him the last 2 years before this. It didn't happen. This year the price for OL was crazy. Hard to blame the Giants for not getting a better offensive lineman. I also would like to have Pugh and Flowers battle it out for the LT spot. What is our contingency plan? I don't want to here he is young. As a manager you have to plan for the worst and hope for the best. When it comes to Flowers we just seem to focus in the latter part.
If Flower plays well then the others moves seem very solid. If not then it doesn't matter if Reggie White was brought in on our defense. We would have wasted another year of Eli's limited time left in this league.
Yes, we still have the draft but I don't believe we are taking an OL at 23. I like Ramczyk (I haven't done enough research on the other OL around that point like Bolles, Robinson, and Lamp) and if his medicals check out he would be a possibility at 23 along woth some others. But I don't believe they will draft another OL that high with all things being equal. If the OL is clearly the highest on our board then yes.
They have been linked to Davenport. Would another OL be a possibility to start? I keep hearing "project" with these other players. That doesn't bode well with our history of developing projects along the OL later in the draft.
We still need more pass rushers whether that is at LB and/or DE. We need another DT, S, CB, TE, RB or 2, and possibly another WR.
So, as of now it is incomplete for me. Maybe we can strike gold with some vets that were let go in the near future. We also need to see how this draft unfolds.
Let me just ask a question, if Flowers sucks again or gets injured then what is our plan? Do we move Pugh? Who plays LG?
Also, are we going to expand on our offense from last year? I am not just talking about the personnel groupings. I am talking about helping our OTs. We rarely did that last year. I have made this point before. I understand our TEs sucked last year but when they were asked to block it seemed like a lot of one on one blocking as opposed to helping the OTs. Also, I do not remember any chipoing by our backs at all. Is it the style of offense where the ball is supposed to come out quick so the backs don't have enough time to chip and get into their route? Our backs blocked but, once again, it was more one on one. I think if these subtle changes happen then we can see improved play from our OL.
we could have paid those crazy contracts, those OLmen got....
As it stands, we have too much of the cap invested in three DLmen....if just one of them goes down, there is no depth to this line.....
I think we paid too much for JPP....can only hope, that he stays healthy, and that he has the incentive to play, fueled by the fact of who he has on the opposite side.....I hope each, is a measuring bar for the other...I remember back in '61, Mantle would hit one....the next day Maris would hit one...they fed off each other....hope the same happens for our two DE's....
Each year we get excited after free agency and the draft, and then reality sets in....fortunately, we stayed away from major injuries, for the most part last year, and that led to a successful season....
If Eli can get a few more weapons from the draft, even with an average OL, I think he will be able to put points on the board.....but we have to be lucky like last year, to avoid major injuries....we also need our young guys to step up.....Collins had a huge sophomore year, and was one of the reasons for the defense's success....can only hope than Perkins, Shepard, and maybe even Adams take that next step....on defense maybe Okwara and Apple, too...
I don't think we can afford Hankins, so his replacement has to be found....it is not Bromley...
And can Adams stay on the field at FS, another huge question mark? We have no backups at either safety position...we got away with Adams last season....that won't happen this season....teams will attack the weakness of this defense, and he was one of them...
As for the linebackers, the best of what we have is Kennard and Casillas, who I don't even feel are average(Goodson, has shown nothing, yet)....they make a play here and there, but for the most part, they scare no one......it would be great if we could find a LB needle in the haystack draft, but it all depends on what is there when we pick.....I still feel the 1st and 2nd rounds should go for offensive weapons....
If we can somehow bring back either Hankins or Robinson and add depth to the CB position, it would be a super good offseason even though we really didn't address the OL I believe with the additions of Marshall and Ellison, our run game should improve.
I know I'm in the minority here but I feel that continuity on the line with modest improvement + a blocking tight end + a healthy Vereen + better downfield blocking from Marshall is going to make the Giants offense money on third down.
We have eight Safeties on the roster now. The Giants will most likely keep four or five on the final 53. How can you say we have no depth at the position?
I like the focus on the defensive side of the ball. It's where championships are won and lost. What good has a shiny high powered offense done for the Giants when the defense was not good. All that gave us was sub .500 teams. Flip it around and the record was 11-5.
I think the Giants made the offense better and kept the defense good.
The Giants are putting all the chips on the table. They know the Eli Manning Era is winding down and they are maximizing resources accordingly.
I love what they've done.
They've largely kept the defense in tact and they've addressed glaring weakness at WR and TE.
If they draft best player at position of need in the draft in the first few picks, I think that fits. I hope they don't reach in the draft, but I do thing they look a little more closely this year at immediate impact. Although my dark horse RD 1 pick is a CB, just because when DRC can't play, it's noticeably felt.
With the Marshall and Ellison signings, they're setting themselves up for the offense to be better than last year, which everyone knew they needed to do. OL is probably a wash as of right now which isn't comforting at all but at least Fluker has some potentially and they can add more in the draft.
If they can bring back Hankins and add a vet RB, I'll be feeling pretty damn good heading into the draft. Still plenty of needs at that point including TE, OL, CB, DL, LB but they'll be set up pretty nicely.
Peterson/Charles/Blount plus Hankins, if they somehow have the space this year to make that happen, would be pretty awesome. They could use some talent and experience at RB. I like Perkins a lot but I don't know if I want to see a young rookie paired with him unless that rookie is a stud.
would be nice ... and then we'd be back in the same hole 2 years from now. Flowers is still young, hopefully can be coached up [I'm assuming he's week 1 LT]
I also don't think this teams window is short ... dominant defense with young talent on offense ... gear towards OL/defense and you can still be somewhat competitive even without the "franchise" QB [t helps, obviously]. I don't think this ship sinks when Eli retires, they just need to build an OL similar to Dallas' strategy and keep guys like Collins/Beckham in blue.
Marshall, Ellison, Fluker, and resigning JPP for a reasonable contract. Also not acceding to Hankins's ridiculous contract demands, or overpaying for FA OL.
Would have liked to sign Robinson, and have no interest in Smith. Jerry sort of meh. Thought we overpaid, but his play did improve last year.
Considering up against the cap this year, not any "quality" FA's esp
given what was out there and how much $ they had to work with.
Marshall and Ellison should make positive impacts on the O.
Dt's are a whole lot easier to obtain than quality OL
But with the way the game has evolved in the NFL I think the Jints are screwed until they replace Eli with a mobile qb. That won't happen imo for another year or two
Bring back Hank or add one more piece on Offense or Defense
the JPP deal as it stands was done before the 9th; all things being equal we might have picked up a better than or additional OL to Fluker that was NOT JJerry.
Especially in a weak OL draft.
the JPP deal as it stands was done before the 9th; all things being equal we might have picked up a better than or additional OL to Fluker that was NOT JJerry.
Especially in a weak OL draft.
I understand all the moves they've made, but if they lose both Hankins
and Robinson, they aren't coming out any better than they went in and staying around the same is usually the same as going backwards in the NFL.
Adding a rich man's Bear Pascoe and current day Marshall isn't enough to offset those losses, if they happen, given how the defense will likely have to carry them again with how terrible their OT play is likely to be (and I'm not saying they should have broken the bank for any of the OL on the market; there was no one worth it... they got dealt the wrong hand for the wrong time on that front).
They're in a spot where they now need to really nail it in the draft, either adding a big defensive piece or somehow finding OL help that can immediately contribute.
But we're haven't closed the gap much on the top 4 teams in the conference. In the end, shouldn't that be the goal? Hopefully the draft is fruitful for us. Before some of you jump on me for posting my opinion, check Raanan's FA piece yesterday on ESPN. He essentially said the exact same thing. I think we are, at the very least, a virtual lock for a WC. A HR draft can elevate us.
Ellison - B- Solid but overpaid
JPP - B Concerned about his injury history
Fluker - C His last two years have been poor
2 backup qb's - B Whichever one wins will be ok in that role.
Still hoping we sign Keenan Robinson and Zach Brown
This is a really good haul for the money they had. Folks tend not to count "signing your own" as a FA pickup but it is. JPP is as good a signing as most anyone had this year. Adding other pieces as well and this is a very good effort. And they may not be done.
This^^^ plus looking up JPP make it a good FA period for me. Hoping to see Robinson back. And hoping Fluker gives decent play!
I thought that very little would change on defense.
I thought they would sign one middle of the road o-linemen because I didn't think they would have enough money to be players in the space.
I thought they would sign a starting TE (and maybe we did?) but I'm not sold yet.
They exceed my expectations at WR because I thought they most we would get is an average #2 guy or we just address this hole in the draft.
2. Marshall signing was a flawless acquisition for "win now"
3. Ellison will indirectly improve the OL play/run game
4. Fluker's a perfect low risk huge reward signing
Ellison, Marshall, and a 1st-3rd round pick @ guard (I want Flowers/Fluker @ T)
Flowers Pugh Richburg Rookie Fluker - lot of youth/talent to coach up.
whitworth wouldve been nice, but we'd be having the same conversation in 2 years.
I like the Marshall signing a lot. I think he'll more than prove his worth on 3rd down and in the red zone.
I have mixed feelings about the Ellison signing. I see him as Bear Pascoe 2.0, so maybe he cost a bit more than he should have, but if his blocking is up to par...if he can open some holes for out RBs and give a major assist to out OTS then I'd say he was worth the cost. We'll see.
Thought Ellison was a good pickup albeit maybe slightly overpaid (not by much, because even decent players in FA have been making good money).
Won't comment on Robinson as we haven't lost him yet and I think he might be the byproduct of the rest of the Giants strong defense. I'd rather have him back, but won't lose too much sleep if he signs elsewhere.
Finally, Fluker for Newhouse seems like a plus for the OL, although we still need another tackle.
All in all, I'd say B+. I'm really happy to have JPP back, even if it wasn't cheap.
JPP: A (Price was high but you needed to bring him back)
Fluker: A- (good, low-cost gamble)
Jerry:B (continuity is important but is anyone looking forward to 30+ Jerry?)
Ellison: C- (big $$$ for a blocking TE. Points to Giants poor midround drafting. This is the type of guy you can pick up in the 4-5th rounds just about every year. He is also 20-30 lbs lighter than guys like Howard Cross and Dan Campbell. Maybe they had to sign him but only because they painted themselves into a corner. I still think they would have been better off waiting to see who was cut by other teams in training camp. Chances are they could have gotten a guy this good for nothing).
I also think the Giants will bring back Hankins. That means the offense will have gotten better without sacrificing D.
I thought that very little would change on defense.
I thought they would sign one middle of the road o-linemen because I didn't think they would have enough money to be players in the space.
I thought they would sign a starting TE (and maybe we did?) but I'm not sold yet.
They exceed my expectations at WR because I thought they most we would get is an average #2 guy or we just address this hole in the draft.
Isn't Fluker a middle of the road o-lineman
Overall it seems to me that the mindset is to try to get a title shot before Eli retires. I can appreciate that, but it's not the comprehensive team building strategy I would prefer.
We're possibly setting up for some dark days post Eli. It didn't have to be that way.
If Fluker and Ellison can buy Eli just one more second of protection...
We're possibly setting up for some dark days post Eli. It didn't have to be that way.
That's the opposite of what the Giants did - what you suggested would've been indicative of the Giants trying to win one last time.
Trying to shove money into FA OL pockets when the talent didn't exist would have resulted in weakening the defense. Last year they spent an ungodly sum of money to build a strong defense, and this year they plied some more into keeping it intact. With what they had left, they sought value into pieces for the offense.
'Win now' would've been address the most glaring holes at any cost, and they didn't do that. That would have compromised the future in a big way.
The OL still scares the hell out of me though. I just can't imagine Flowers at LT come week 1.
May be taking a step back on D with losing Hankins.
I love the Marshall pick up, but I'm very much in the camp of those who think the OL is still a glaring weakness, and if we can't protect Eli, that signing is neutralized. I understand the "who were we supposed to sign" mindset, but definitely frustrating.
I also thought we desperately need a 3rd pass rushing end, and I haven't seen that talked about much. Having no viable option to spell our 2 highly paid ends has "injury risk" written all over it. Also, the pressure that was generated from only rushing 4 last year left a lot to be desired, a lot of sacks and "pressures" resulted from coverage, at least in my eyes (though to give credit where credit is due, when we brought more than 4 guys, as well as late in games, the pressure was getting there, I'm not completely jaded, haha). They're one big injury from being really exposed. I hoped it would be a high round pick if we could shore up the offensive line and retain JPP and Hankins, which looks like it won't happen.
To sum up, I thought our 2 biggest needs were on the OL and DL, with WR and TE 3rd and 4th respectively (which I think they hit a homer in with both). Thus far, they made a lateral move on the OL, and took a step back on the DL, so I'm a little disappointed. That being said, what the fuck do I know? Haha.
If Flower plays well then the others moves seem very solid. If not then it doesn't matter if Reggie White was brought in on our defense. We would have wasted another year of Eli's limited time left in this league.
Yes, we still have the draft but I don't believe we are taking an OL at 23. I like Ramczyk (I haven't done enough research on the other OL around that point like Bolles, Robinson, and Lamp) and if his medicals check out he would be a possibility at 23 along woth some others. But I don't believe they will draft another OL that high with all things being equal. If the OL is clearly the highest on our board then yes.
They have been linked to Davenport. Would another OL be a possibility to start? I keep hearing "project" with these other players. That doesn't bode well with our history of developing projects along the OL later in the draft.
We still need more pass rushers whether that is at LB and/or DE. We need another DT, S, CB, TE, RB or 2, and possibly another WR.
So, as of now it is incomplete for me. Maybe we can strike gold with some vets that were let go in the near future. We also need to see how this draft unfolds.
Let me just ask a question, if Flowers sucks again or gets injured then what is our plan? Do we move Pugh? Who plays LG?
Also, are we going to expand on our offense from last year? I am not just talking about the personnel groupings. I am talking about helping our OTs. We rarely did that last year. I have made this point before. I understand our TEs sucked last year but when they were asked to block it seemed like a lot of one on one blocking as opposed to helping the OTs. Also, I do not remember any chipoing by our backs at all. Is it the style of offense where the ball is supposed to come out quick so the backs don't have enough time to chip and get into their route? Our backs blocked but, once again, it was more one on one. I think if these subtle changes happen then we can see improved play from our OL.
As it stands, we have too much of the cap invested in three DLmen....if just one of them goes down, there is no depth to this line.....
I think we paid too much for JPP....can only hope, that he stays healthy, and that he has the incentive to play, fueled by the fact of who he has on the opposite side.....I hope each, is a measuring bar for the other...I remember back in '61, Mantle would hit one....the next day Maris would hit one...they fed off each other....hope the same happens for our two DE's....
Each year we get excited after free agency and the draft, and then reality sets in....fortunately, we stayed away from major injuries, for the most part last year, and that led to a successful season....
If Eli can get a few more weapons from the draft, even with an average OL, I think he will be able to put points on the board.....but we have to be lucky like last year, to avoid major injuries....we also need our young guys to step up.....Collins had a huge sophomore year, and was one of the reasons for the defense's success....can only hope than Perkins, Shepard, and maybe even Adams take that next step....on defense maybe Okwara and Apple, too...
I don't think we can afford Hankins, so his replacement has to be found....it is not Bromley...
And can Adams stay on the field at FS, another huge question mark? We have no backups at either safety position...we got away with Adams last season....that won't happen this season....teams will attack the weakness of this defense, and he was one of them...
As for the linebackers, the best of what we have is Kennard and Casillas, who I don't even feel are average(Goodson, has shown nothing, yet)....they make a play here and there, but for the most part, they scare no one......it would be great if we could find a LB needle in the haystack draft, but it all depends on what is there when we pick.....I still feel the 1st and 2nd rounds should go for offensive weapons....
: )
They still need to re-sign Hankins at a reasonable number, and some of the remaining UFA defensive depth.
I think the Giants made the offense better and kept the defense good.
I love what they've done.
They've largely kept the defense in tact and they've addressed glaring weakness at WR and TE.
If they draft best player at position of need in the draft in the first few picks, I think that fits. I hope they don't reach in the draft, but I do thing they look a little more closely this year at immediate impact. Although my dark horse RD 1 pick is a CB, just because when DRC can't play, it's noticeably felt.
If they can bring back Hankins and add a vet RB, I'll be feeling pretty damn good heading into the draft. Still plenty of needs at that point including TE, OL, CB, DL, LB but they'll be set up pretty nicely.
Peterson/Charles/Blount plus Hankins, if they somehow have the space this year to make that happen, would be pretty awesome. They could use some talent and experience at RB. I like Perkins a lot but I don't know if I want to see a young rookie paired with him unless that rookie is a stud.
Once he was gone, I think that Reese did all he could do to incrementally improve the team.
I still want Big Hank back...otherwise the defense has a new hole to fill.
I also don't think this teams window is short ... dominant defense with young talent on offense ... gear towards OL/defense and you can still be somewhat competitive even without the "franchise" QB [t helps, obviously]. I don't think this ship sinks when Eli retires, they just need to build an OL similar to Dallas' strategy and keep guys like Collins/Beckham in blue.
Marshall, Ellison, Fluker, and resigning JPP for a reasonable contract. Also not acceding to Hankins's ridiculous contract demands, or overpaying for FA OL.
Would have liked to sign Robinson, and have no interest in Smith. Jerry sort of meh. Thought we overpaid, but his play did improve last year.
The draft may be same (considering down at #23) as most top teir will be off the board likely then.
Offense may be the same as last season as far as execution and play, but hoping that defense can still carry this team like last season.
Marshall and Ellison should make positive impacts on the O.
Dt's are a whole lot easier to obtain than quality OL
But with the way the game has evolved in the NFL I think the Jints are screwed until they replace Eli with a mobile qb. That won't happen imo for another year or two
Especially in a weak OL draft.
Especially in a weak OL draft.
Adding a rich man's Bear Pascoe and current day Marshall isn't enough to offset those losses, if they happen, given how the defense will likely have to carry them again with how terrible their OT play is likely to be (and I'm not saying they should have broken the bank for any of the OL on the market; there was no one worth it... they got dealt the wrong hand for the wrong time on that front).
They're in a spot where they now need to really nail it in the draft, either adding a big defensive piece or somehow finding OL help that can immediately contribute.
JPP - B Concerned about his injury history
Fluker - C His last two years have been poor
2 backup qb's - B Whichever one wins will be ok in that role.