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JPP first Reese 1st Rounder to get second contract

EddieNYG : 3/18/2017 2:07 pm
My apologies if this has been discussed already. I did a search and didn't find any current threads on this. JPP is the only 1st Round pick with Jerry Reese as the GM to be signed to a second, long term contract.

Here are the first round picks in the Reese era:

2007 - CB Aaron Ross
2008 - S Kenny Phillips
2009 - WR Hakeem Nicks
2010 - DE Jason Pierre-Paul
2011 - CB Prince Amukamara
2012 - RB David Wilson
2013 - OL Justin Pugh
2014 - WR Odell Beckham Jr
2015 - OL Ereck Flowers
2016 - CB Eli Apple

Injuries shortened the career's of Phillips, Nicks and Wilson. Ross and Prince didn't quite live up to expectations so they weren't re-signed for performance reasons. Pugh, Beckham, Flowers and Apple are still on their rookie contracts.

So Jason Pierre-Paul is the only 1st Round pick to be signed to a second long term contract in the Reese era.

Next up to hit free agency is OL Justin Pugh. Will he be the second first round pick to get a long term, second contract?
IMO order from best to worst  
est1986 : 3/18/2017 2:14 pm : link
2014 - WR Odell Beckham Jr
2010 - DE Jason Pierre-Paul
2009 - WR Hakeem Nicks
2013 - OL Justin Pugh
2016 - CB Eli Apple
2008 - S Kenny Phillips
2011 - CB Prince Amukamara
2007 - CB Aaron Ross
2015 - OL Ereck Flowers
2012 - RB David Wilson

Of course things can change with Odell, JPP, Pugh, Apple and Flowers. But Odell will get his and so will Pugh if he stays healthy this year. Time will tell with Apple and Flowers who are 21 and 22 years old.

If you count second rounders  
David in LA : 3/18/2017 2:14 pm : link
Steve Smith and Terrell Thomas both should have seen a nice second contract.
I don't think Prince underperformed  
jcn56 : 3/18/2017 2:16 pm : link
if he hadn't been injured on a consistent basis I could have seen us extending him, the only question would be for how much.
RE: If you count second rounders  
Jay on the Island : 3/18/2017 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13398165 David in LA said:
Steve Smith and Terrell Thomas both should have seen a nice second contract.

Terrell Thomas had actually agreed on an extension but it had a team option that the Giants declined after he tore his ACL for the second year in a row. The Giants were also in talks with Steve Smith about a contract extension at the time of his injury.
Thanks Jay, my memory on TT's extension is a bit foggy  
David in LA : 3/18/2017 2:30 pm : link
Such a shame we are snake bitten with injuries to premium picks. Constantly having to refill that level of talent is probably part of the reason why the team really struggled during TC's last few years.
RE: I don't think Prince underperformed  
Klaatu : 3/18/2017 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13398168 jcn56 said:
if he hadn't been injured on a consistent basis I could have seen us extending him, the only question would be for how much.

Yeah, the Giants picked up his 5th year option, most likely to see if he could stay healthy, but he still couldn't.
Second Contract  
AndyB : 3/18/2017 2:54 pm : link
This is not unusual.

Out of 250 or so players drafted every year, about 30-35 will re-sign with the team that drafted them after their rookie contracts have expired.

The rest will either be long out of football or they will have moved on along the way to another team, and then another, and then another, until no one wants them anymore.

The vast majority of drafted players will never rise above replacement level. That is, they remain on the roster of the team that drafted them for two or three years as a backup and special teams player. They may have the chance to start a few games because of someone else's injury. Then they are replaced by more recent draft picks and undrafted free agents, and the cycle starts all over again.

Don't buy into the pre-draft hype about all these players from the Kipers and Mayocks and all these other geniuses. Despite what you are hearing in the days and weeks leading up to the draft, most of the guys taken next month will do little or nothing significant in pro football and in about three years you'll barely remember them.

lets see  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 3:02 pm : link
2007 - CB Aaron Ross (good player, useful piece)
2008 - S Kenny Phillips (nearly no ints in college nearly none in nfl, still useful piece, but not a first round great value either)
2009 - WR Hakeem Nicks (short term very useful)
2010 - DE Jason Pierre-Paul (great draft pick)
2011 - CB Prince Amukamara (useful piece for a while, but not great value as a first rounder)
2012 - RB David Wilson (head scratcher at the time)
2013 - OL Justin Pugh (will get second contract, but as a tackle! ;-0 )
2014 - WR Odell Beckham Jr (keep da kid)
2015 - OL Ereck Flowers (as a guard or ORT IF the kid hunkers down bigly)
2016 - CB Eli Apple (good solid pick)
Kenny Phillips had eight interceptions in his five years in blue.  
Klaatu : 3/18/2017 3:10 pm : link
To go along with 26 PDefs and 275 tackles. His best year was 2011, when we won the Super Bowl. 82 tackles, 11 PDefs, 4 ints.

As the last pick in the 1st Round of the 2008 draft, he represented tremendous value.
correct by year  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 3:26 pm : link
1,2,1,4,0, then 0 after that for his career.

solid pick, not great.
On what planet are Kenny Philips & Nicks not seen as great picks?  
drkenneth : 3/18/2017 3:33 pm : link
Whose careers were derailed by injury. Nicks was a top 5 WR at his prime.

Of BBI can't at least agree on this, I'm not sure what I'm doing here.
ThatLimerickGuy : 3/18/2017 3:33 pm : link
All eligible to do so, sans Wilson who broke his neck, did in fact get a 2nd contract. Many got a 3rd, 4th and 5th contract too. It just wasn't with the Giants.

I would argue that looking at that list that Reese is as close to amazing as it gets when it comes to 1st round picks and that most of you who are complaining have zero concept of the actual rate of success in selecting 1st rounders. want to bash Reese for his picks in rounds 3-6 and I will lead the party. He is abominable in those rounds.
football outsiders on the 2008 draft d backs  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 3:33 pm : link
''Defensive backs

Conventional wisdom: It was a bad year if you were looking for a surefire shutdown corner or generally elite prospect. On the other hand, if you just needed a serviceable corner, there were plenty to choose from. The consensus top three prospects at the position were all from smaller programs: Troy, Tennessee State, and South Florida (which has been successful recently but was almost entirely unknown in 2008). If you needed a safety instead of a corner, you were better off looking elsewhere, as not many had the makeup of high picks.

Highest pick: Leodis McKelvin, Troy, 11th overall to the Bills.

Best player: A very muddled picture with no clear winner. The contenders include Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Aqib Talib, Brandon Flowers, and Brandon Carr, plus Thomas DeCoud and maybe Tyvon Branch at safety. I would rate Flowers as the best choice among that grouping, but a good argument could probably get me to go a different direction. The FO game charting stats would probably pick a different guy each year, with DRC as the top guy in 2013.

Biggest bust: Kenny Phillips is the highest-drafted defensive back no longer playing, but he was a good player at times before persistent injury issues knocked him out of the league. Instead, take your pick of a number of second- and third-round picks, including small school (Arkansas State) safety Tyrell Johnson to the Vikings, Packers cornerback Patrick Lee, and Patriots corner Terrence Wheatley in the second round, plus Chevis Jackson to the Falcons, Reggie Smith to the 49ers, and safety DaJuan Morgan to the Chiefs in the third. Personally, I will also have a soft spot for Tom Zbikowski -- not a pure bust but a player who was overhyped from the time he was a five-star high school recruit. While playing, he attributed his two best seasons to out of control drinking.

Best value: Carr in the fifth round to the Chiefs is the clear winner here. Seventh-rounder Cary Williams eventually turned into a player, though not Carr's equal and not for the Titans team that drafted him. Branch was a fourth-rounder for the Raiders.
Prince Amukamara...  
Klaatu : 3/18/2017 3:36 pm : link
Was universally considered to be the second best CB in the 2011 draft (after Patrick Peterson), and more than a few draft gurus projected him as a Top Ten pick. The fact that he lasted to #19 had much to do with free agency coming after the draft that year, and since QB-hungry teams had no chance to sign any free agent QBs prior to the draft, guys like Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder were drafted early in the 1st round, pushing Prince (and others) down the board. Again, tremendous value.
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 3:37 pm : link
good, not great. Great is local fan centric.

Remember, we had a need at safety, and still had a fairly good set up to USE or take advantage of any good safety.

Kenny was a reliable safety valve and solid tackler, which is, to be fair, very important.

But to garner the word 'great' you need to put the INT fear into the QB and that's not that type of safeties game.
same with Prince  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 3:39 pm : link
solid piece, was not re-signed for a reason, solid value.

tremendous value? please. no.
I see BBI is turning the stupid up to 11 today.  
drkenneth : 3/18/2017 3:41 pm : link
Holy shit.
you cannot measure value on draft day  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 3:43 pm : link
after retirement you measure. be real.
Kenny Phillips wasn't around long enough to know how good he was  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/18/2017 3:44 pm : link
Maybe he could have been something like Landon Collins. He wasn't at that level when he played.
Oh, puh-leeze.  
Klaatu : 3/18/2017 3:44 pm : link
You get a starting FS at #32 and that isn't great value? Yeah...sure.

Tyrell Johnson? The same Tyrell Johnson who was drafted 11 spots later than Phillips and had two whole interceptions in his entire career? Don't make me laugh.

You get a potential top ten pick at #19 and that doesn't represent tremendous value? Yeah...sure.
which part kenny?  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 3:44 pm : link
value means shit on draft day  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 3:48 pm : link
after the player retires you measure, anything less is kid stuff, playing cards or mind games.

In addition, 'starting' means shit if you don't have anyone else at the position.

Yes, you can -easily- find a 'starting free safety' at first round #32 if the next best safety on your team sucks. Very easily if you include all dbacks in your safety search.
football outsiders had Phillips in the 'biggest bust'  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 3:50 pm : link

I said "solid" and 'good not great'.

Pick one. Great? Puh-lease.
David Wilson was a head-scratcher?  
Klaatu : 3/18/2017 3:53 pm : link
For a team that had exactly one good RB on its roster, and that one was dealing with a number of lower body injuries?

Oh boy, Football Outsiders!  
Klaatu : 3/18/2017 3:55 pm : link
How's that SackSEER thing working out for them?
yes, Wilson was a very obvious head scratcher at the time  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 3:58 pm : link
many of us wanted a big guard that year (sound familiar?) Glenn maybe, and said so prior to the draft.

In addition, Wilson, playing behind a line that LACKED big guards, and being a tiny lil' fella', was considered a head scratcher at the time by many on BBI., injury risk. not priority in order.
How was David Wilson considered an injury risk prior to his injury?  
Klaatu : 3/18/2017 4:05 pm : link
Three years at Va Tech, he never missed a game.
RE: I see BBI is turning the stupid up to 11 today.  
Diver_Down : 3/18/2017 4:11 pm : link
In comment 13398249 drkenneth said:
Holy shit.

Each time you respond, it goes up a notch. At least, you have given up your profanities.
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 4:17 pm : link
raise your game.

College does not equal the NFL.

Perceived value on draft day is important ...but only in measuring the market and means very little once the player starts, IF they start, playing NFL games.

Value is measured long, long after the fact.

Its not Madden.
or, to state the obvious  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 4:23 pm : link
NFL defenders are bigger, meaner, faster, and have technique and skills that college kids don't. cash pay is on the line.

in addition, some here wanted big guards that year (Wilson) for a reason, and that reason, as I stated above and then, played into why small RB wilson got injured.

you build from the lines, the center/nose, outward.
Aaron Ross  
David B. : 3/18/2017 4:24 pm : link
was Accorsi's pick. Not Reese's.
Of course, because big RBs never get injured.  
Klaatu : 3/18/2017 4:25 pm : link
You're clueless, as always.
RE: Aaron Ross  
Klaatu : 3/18/2017 4:26 pm : link
In comment 13398293 David B. said:
was Accorsi's pick. Not Reese's.

2007. He was Reese's pick.
OK Klaatu, you win  
idiotsavant : 3/18/2017 5:03 pm : link
feel happy, its all ok.
Aaron Ross started for 2 Championship seasons  
YorkAveGiant : 3/18/2017 5:44 pm : link
Certainly, not a bust.
Glover : 3/18/2017 6:57 pm : link
Every one of those first round picks  
Glover : 3/18/2017 7:02 pm : link
showed that they were worthy of a second contract at some point, most for multiple years. Shows you how much injuries derail careers. Better health would have increased Reese's track record. Cant kill him for guys getting hurt. It happens. You gotta have some luck to get HOFers, or even HOReally gooder's.
'JPP first Reese 1st Rounder to get second contract'...  
Torrag : 3/18/2017 11:21 pm : link
Injuries were the major factor influencing this.
Some of these guys  
Mike from SI : 3/18/2017 11:24 pm : link
got second contracts with other teams.
Mike from SI : 3/18/2017 11:25 pm : link
can we see a comparison of Reese's first rounders versus Ernie's? I'd be curious to see that.

(Also, perhaps versus other long-term GMs?)
Nicks was a Beast before the injury  
Bluesbreaker : 3/19/2017 11:49 am : link
he was ascending easily top 5 WR
Thomas wrecked his knee in college so he was a bit of a risk .
I think Kenny Phillips had arthritic issues pre-draft .
David Wilson a surprise pick had some crazy ability but
guys like Bobby Wagner Alshon Jeffery Cordy Glenn Kelechi Osemele Mitchell Schwartz Janoris Jenkins to name a few then we took Randle in the 2nd that draft was loaded with
talent at least we finally got the draft philosophy turned
around in 2013 .

Hindsight about the draft can be tremendously misleading  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2017 11:55 am : link
Alshon Jeffery had plenty of concerns about him in that draft. He was perceived as lazy. They spread about photos of him being very out of shape in college.

Randle was advertised as pro-ready and a great selection.

Janoris Jenkins was objectively a bad football player for his whole career until last season. The Giants were derided for giving him money.

Reese has hit on nearly all his first round picks. They all had very good reasons for not being re-signed. Being able to get it right with your first rounders is an undersold ability. Everyone thinks it's easy and would rather give him a hard time about his mid-round record, but a GM that can't hit on his 1st and 2nd rounders is a franchise-crippling situation.
Aaron Ross  
BlackburnBalledOut : 3/19/2017 8:57 pm : link
is/was so underrated. didnt have the flashy numbers but he was a real instinctive corner. got beat sometimes tryin to jump a route but man i feel like he gets no love. he was such a big part of those two super bowls. made some big hits in SB 46 in particular and locked down his side of the field in both 42 and 46
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