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Thoughts on what my become of the Oline.

3r76jp : 3/18/2017 10:31 pm
I haven't posted here in a loong time (10+yrs) but been faithfully lurking! I guess whats been on my mind grapes are what the Giants are planning to do with the the OL. My guess is to install Fluker at RT. Although having two tackles who haven't instilled us with much confidence in their pass blocking abilities they both can push the pile. With that said will we become run first team? Plus that may help keep the def. honest rather then them having their ears pinned back ready to kill Eli.
As of now,  
robbieballs2003 : 3/18/2017 10:34 pm : link
I believe the OL will be

Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, and then the winner of Fluker and Hart at RT.
Welcome  
AcidTest : 3/18/2017 10:34 pm : link
back!

I think it's WYSIWYG, namely Flowers at LT to start the season. Fluker said he was brought in to play RG IIRC. I think the Giants will just look for OL depth on day three, maybe a developmental tackle.
Thanks  
3r76jp : 3/18/2017 11:01 pm : link
I feel the oline will be Flower Pugh Richburg Jerry Fluker w/Hart as the RG RT backup. On run plays we could use a 2 TE set Rhett and Adams. w/OBJ and Edwards and Perkins in the backfield. Thats alot of beef up front plus OBJ Edwards and Perkins keep the Def. honest. Too bad the TEs aren't really scary though.
I feel like the projectied lineup SHOULD be able to  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/18/2017 11:09 pm : link
run the ball.
It seems like they are accumulating guys who are affordable  
Vanzetti : 3/18/2017 11:16 pm : link
and just hoping it all works out in he end. I don't really see a concrete plan. I think the plan was to sign an OT but then the prices went through the roof and it looks like the Giants are trying to improvise on the fly..
Jerry is a horrible  
dk in TX : 3/18/2017 11:17 pm : link
run blocker. Anybody but him at RT. Jerry should be relegated to a backup.
'Thoughts on what my become of the Oline'...  
Torrag : 3/18/2017 11:28 pm : link
...with the current personnel I see it like this. The group as a whole has the potential to be good running the ball. Definitely better in this regard than in recent years. That could help them as pass protectors as well but only moderately. I expect Eli will be consistently harassed unless we can do more to improve the talent.
Torrag  
3r76jp : 3/19/2017 12:41 am : link
I love the idea of getting a lineman early in the draft a Ramcyzk, Bolles, Garcia, ect. they all sound great but theirs a "BIG IF" if they can start in their 1st yr. Draft a lineman, a Davenport but he's for the future. Along w/that I don't know if their are any viable options in FA, other than a "possible" trade for a great LT.
One more thing  
3r76jp : 3/19/2017 12:49 am : link
Draft a guy like Connor that dude looks like a beast who can get skinny. I've also watched Foreman but it always seemed like he had a hole the size of Texas to run through.
I think Hart wins RT and Fluker RG  
TD : 3/19/2017 1:46 am : link
Makes for a very big OL that should (should!) be able to run block well. Pass blocking will still be bottom third quality but the quick drop/read O that we employ and threat of the run should help the pass protection a lot.

I think adding a good RB in the draft will help propel the O as much as a good OL would.
TD  
3r76jp : 3/19/2017 2:30 am : link
This doesn't make me a pro but I tried to watch nfl replay and try to evaluate some of the runs to the right side. It at times looked like Jerry hit(touched) his mark but Hart seemed to be a tad off. Plus Jerry actually looks pretty decent on pulls and sweeps.
Oh and TD  
3r76jp : 3/19/2017 2:38 am : link
I would like the idea if either Fluker and Hart we're to start together on the right side. I just like the fact that Jerry is still training with Richburg.
Your handle  
Big Blue '56 : 3/19/2017 6:52 am : link
sounds like a designed play
Fluker is a RG  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/19/2017 8:26 am : link
He is going to battle it out with Jerry - Hart will be RT unless another lineman appears
they're all bums  
grizz299 : 3/19/2017 8:30 am : link
What makes you think they'll be able to run block.
We go in with the best WR's in all of football and the board decides we should become a run team. This, in spite of the fact, that we don't have a good running back and the the guys up front can't run block.

I will be Pugh doesn't make 1/2 of the season. Flowers and Jerry are awful. Richenberg sub average. Fluker a guy who has never put it together and Hart little talent.

We are and will remain a passing team. The best we can hope for is enough running ability to keep teams from playing 4 and 5 in the box the way The Browns showed the league the way it can be done.
So if they play 5 or 6 in the box with deep cover 2 safety's then MAYBE we can get a running game. But that's created by the 3 WR's not our crappy line.
RE: they're all bums  
Diver_Down : 3/19/2017 8:46 am : link
In comment 13398750 grizz299 said:
Quote:
What makes you think they'll be able to run block.
We go in with the best WR's in all of football and the board decides we should become a run team. This, in spite of the fact, that we don't have a good running back and the the guys up front can't run block.

I will be Pugh doesn't make 1/2 of the season. Flowers and Jerry are awful. Richenberg sub average. Fluker a guy who has never put it together and Hart little talent.

We are and will remain a passing team. The best we can hope for is enough running ability to keep teams from playing 4 and 5 in the box the way The Browns showed the league the way it can be done.
So if they play 5 or 6 in the box with deep cover 2 safety's then MAYBE we can get a running game. But that's created by the 3 WR's not our crappy line.


I love the positive insight. The irony is that 24 hours ago you condemned me for my negative posts. Do as I say, not as I do. Got it.
RE: Fluker is a RG  
Big Blue '56 : 3/19/2017 8:48 am : link
In comment 13398748 gidiefor said:
Quote:
He is going to battle it out with Jerry - Hart will be RT unless another lineman appears


Thoughts on bringing in Mangold?
I think flukes and jerry are misdirection  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/19/2017 8:55 am : link
I think Reese goes heavy Ol this draft.
Everyone on BBI is just hoping...  
M.S. : 3/19/2017 8:56 am : link

...our offensive line can play at a mediocre/middling level this season.

We have no outright stars... no blue chip players... just a very average group that we're hoping will play middle-of-pack NFL caliber blocking.

i'm worried  
area junc : 3/19/2017 9:09 am : link
I get that the team is counting on huge years from Pugh and Richburg, but even if they get it, Flowers has shown no signs of developement. We used to complain about Beatty at LT but he was NEVER this bad, not even in his 1st game.

The Giants are so sold on Jerry that he could now potentially start at RG for 6 years here. Having a G who can't run block is a killer, especially when you primarily run between the tackles, and more specifically, right up the gut. The way we attack, we need a "man mover" at RG and it's frustrating we don't see that.

So the public blame goes to Eli while he currently has Ereck Flowers and the best of D.J. Fluker, Bobby Hart and a potential rookie protecting the edges. That is easily the worst set of pass blocking OTs in the league paired with a pocket passer. not a recipe for success.

now - with Fluker's contract details I'd say it looks like he's being paid like a back-up so I'm hopeful we can pick up a starting OT in the draft. But being down to hoping for a rookie starter is not comforting.

I guess I should  
area junc : 3/19/2017 9:17 am : link
add there's still time to trade for Joe Thomas, too.

Per PFT, the Giants were interested at the deadline last year and CLE wanted a 2.

That deal could never happen until JPP got done.

RE: i'm worried  
M.S. : 3/19/2017 9:18 am : link
In comment 13398778 area junc said:
Quote:
I get that the team is counting on huge years from Pugh and Richburg, but even if they get it, Flowers has shown no signs of developement. We used to complain about Beatty at LT but he was NEVER this bad, not even in his 1st game.

The Giants are so sold on Jerry that he could now potentially start at RG for 6 years here. Having a G who can't run block is a killer, especially when you primarily run between the tackles, and more specifically, right up the gut. The way we attack, we need a "man mover" at RG and it's frustrating we don't see that.

So the public blame goes to Eli while he currently has Ereck Flowers and the best of D.J. Fluker, Bobby Hart and a potential rookie protecting the edges. That is easily the worst set of pass blocking OTs in the league paired with a pocket passer. not a recipe for success.

now - with Fluker's contract details I'd say it looks like he's being paid like a back-up so I'm hopeful we can pick up a starting OT in the draft. But being down to hoping for a rookie starter is not comforting.

This just about sums it up. As an aside, I'm not putting a whole lotta stock in Eli is "finally" showing his age. Hard to be very efficient with the ball downfield when you've got one eye on your left tackle. Ugh.
With a little luck...  
Klaatu : 3/19/2017 9:22 am : link
We may be able to get one O-Line prospect in this draft who has a chance to start from the get-go - the operative word being "may." If you're expecting more than that, you're most likely to be disappointed.
RE: With a little luck...  
M.S. : 3/19/2017 9:35 am : link
In comment 13398788 Klaatu said:
Quote:
We may be able to get one O-Line prospect in this draft who has a chance to start from the get-go - the operative word being "may." If you're expecting more than that, you're most likely to be disappointed.

Well said!
RE: With a little luck...  
M.S. : 3/19/2017 9:35 am : link
In comment 13398788 Klaatu said:
Quote:
We may be able to get one O-Line prospect in this draft who has a chance to start from the get-go - the operative word being "may." If you're expecting more than that, you're most likely to be disappointed.

Well said!
RE: With a little luck...  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/19/2017 9:47 am : link
In comment 13398788 Klaatu said:
Quote:
We may be able to get one O-Line prospect in this draft who has a chance to start from the get-go - the operative word being "may." If you're expecting more than that, you're most likely to be disappointed.


I believe you mean with a lot of luck -- there's just not a sterling class this year
RE: RE: Fluker is a RG  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/19/2017 9:49 am : link
In comment 13398761 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13398748 gidiefor said:


Quote:


He is going to battle it out with Jerry - Hart will be RT unless another lineman appears



Thoughts on bringing in Mangold?


I don't thin so
The hope for the Offensive tine this year is Ellis  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/19/2017 9:51 am : link
he adds some boom to the blocking

Now if the Giants pick up a two way TE in the draft - that I can see helping too
I can live with an OL of  
The_Boss : 3/19/2017 9:57 am : link
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Lamp (taken at 23)-Fluker

I think that could work.
Then next spring we assess what Flowers is and make a decision on Pugh/Richburg's long term viability on the OL.
Offensive line:  
hammock man : 3/19/2017 10:03 am : link
Flowers, Pugh,Richberg or Jones,Fluker or Hart, Lamp. The addition of Lamp drives competition and immediatly makes the line more than adaquate.
RE: RE: With a little luck...  
Klaatu : 3/19/2017 10:05 am : link
In comment 13398808 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 13398788 Klaatu said:


Quote:


We may be able to get one O-Line prospect in this draft who has a chance to start from the get-go - the operative word being "may." If you're expecting more than that, you're most likely to be disappointed.



I believe you mean with a lot of luck -- there's just not a sterling class this year


With A LOT of luck, Ereck Flowers gets his sh*t together and is no longer the worst LT in the league.

With A LOT of luck, Justin Pugh stays healthy and plays well in all 16 games.

With A LOT of luck, Weston Richburg bounces back from a sub-par year.

With A LOT of luck, John Jerry goes to the bench, regardless of his contract.

With A LOT of luck, D.J. Fluker makes people say, "Wow! Was that D.J. Fluker who made that block? He's freakin' awesome!"

With A LOT of luck, the Giants will draft an OL prospect on Day 3 that they'll actually be able to develop successfully.
RE: Oh and TD  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/19/2017 10:10 am : link
In comment 13398717 3r76jp said:
Quote:
I would like the idea if either Fluker and Hart we're to start together on the right side. I just like the fact that Jerry is still training with Richburg.


By the way -- Hart trains with Richburg and Jerry - and gets high marks for it --- Hart may well surprise a few people here in this third year
RE: RE: RE: With a little luck...  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/19/2017 10:13 am : link
In comment 13398826 Klaatu said:
Quote:

With A LOT of luck, Ereck Flowers gets his sh*t together and is no longer the worst LT in the league.

With A LOT of luck, Justin Pugh stays healthy and plays well in all 16 games.

With A LOT of luck, Weston Richburg bounces back from a sub-par year.

With A LOT of luck, John Jerry goes to the bench, regardless of his contract.

With A LOT of luck, D.J. Fluker makes people say, "Wow! Was that D.J. Fluker who made that block? He's freakin' awesome!"

With A LOT of luck, the Giants will draft an OL prospect on Day 3 that they'll actually be able to develop successfully.


lol - now that's my buddy Klaatu, moving from a little to A LOT to the 6th [[[[[[ Power! ]]]]]]]
Flowers is the problem  
averagejoe : 3/19/2017 10:17 am : link
He can't play like he did last year and continue to start. I was surprised to hear Mac defend him. I think he believes Flowers has progressed. That is pretty scary. I remember watching Flowers get beat clean to the inside on a three step drop and nearly getting Eli killed. Could not believe he was that bad.

Giants will take OL and hope they get lucky. Maybe they should take the best OT prospect available every round...lol
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Hart.  
drkenneth : 3/19/2017 10:24 am : link
I'd add an OL in the 2nd (someone lie Dion Dawkins in the 2nd) and hope for the best.

At that point, your OL would consist of:

3-1st rd picks(Flowers/Fluker/Pugh)
2-2nd rd picks (Richburg/Dawkins)
1- 7th (Hart)
Tight End in Round 1  
Jimmy Googs : 3/19/2017 10:57 am : link
Right Guard or Swing Tackle in Round 2

Def Tackle in Round 3 (if Hankins walks)

Robbieballs  
Bluesbreaker : 3/19/2017 11:07 am : link
That lineup does not inspire confidence .
agree Klatuu and were just not that lucky ....
Minority opinion  
trueblueinpw : 3/19/2017 11:27 am : link
I'm not saying our line was great last season but it was pretty good the season before. Guess what? It was the same personnel both years. One good year, one bad year. I think our offense was more hindered by lack of production at TE, RB and XR than many realize. I like to ask, if we had the Cowboys line last year, would our offense have been that much better? Remember, we got next to nada from the RB position and yeah I get that there weren't any big holes for RJ & co but did any running back have a big game all season? Did any Giants RB take over a game or even make a play during the entire season? What about TE? Everyone wants to kill John Jerry but I don't see that same mob running down Will Tye. Can we really be certain that Will Tye is more talented at his position, including run blocking than John Jerry is at his position on the OL? We had OBJ making plays, except in the biggest game of the season when he got a case of the droppsies. Shep had a nice rookie campaign but he wasn't really a difference maker. So really, leaving the OL aside for just a minute, who shines on the Giants offense?

And let's not forget the fact that the coaching was abismal. Good coaches make adjustments at the half. Really good coaches make adjustments in between series. Our coaches? Our coaches were the only team in my memory to run the same personnel set in every game of the season for nearly every play all season long. That just isn't done in the NFL except by our team. I think Lombardi did something similar from time to time, but, well, yeah, it worked back in his day. McAdoo got the Giants to the playoffs and he had a whale of a rookie campaign as HC/NYG. But the jury is still out on whether or not he's a legit NFL coach. Remember, Spags was running the D and the part of the team that McAdoo was supposed to be good at running was in the very bottom of the NFL. Even with a franchise QB and one of the best WRs in the game, McAdoo had this offense at the bottom of the entire NFL. Think about that...even with Eli and OBJ, the Giants offense was worse than all but two other NFL squads. Every single player on offense, except maybe Jerry and Shep took a step back last season. The horrible season for the Giants offense has to fall to someone and not just the offensive line.
RE: Jerry is a horrible  
BigBlueinDE : 3/19/2017 11:32 am : link
In comment 13398630 dk in TX said:
Quote:
run blocker. Anybody but him at RT. Jerry should be relegated to a backup.


In a perfect world, you're spot on. The problem is that there aren't enough bodies and in this environment a career backup like Jerry is forced to start. I suspect they'll address OL in the draft and will continue to look after the first round of veteran cuts.
Why does it take A LOT of luck for richburg to bounce back  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2017 11:37 am : link
from a subpar (and allegedly injured) year when we've already seen him play really well before?

Giants fans have a unique ability to frame everything as "worst in the league" man, it's incredible.

RE: Why does it take A LOT of luck for richburg to bounce back  
Klaatu : 3/19/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13398894 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
from a subpar (and allegedly injured) year when we've already seen him play really well before?

Giants fans have a unique ability to frame everything as "worst in the league" man, it's incredible.


Because it's as opposed to a little luck, and it should be taken in toto with the rest of the bullet points.

What's incredible to me is the propensity of some here to speak in generalities.
RE: Minority opinion  
jcn56 : 3/19/2017 11:45 am : link
In comment 13398885 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
I'm not saying our line was great last season but it was pretty good the season before. Guess what? It was the same personnel both years. One good year, one bad year. I think our offense was more hindered by lack of production at TE, RB and XR than many realize.


I agree with this and I think it's often overlooked. The line sucked this past season, without a doubt. There were some mitigating factors - injury and the skill positions didn't help.

Just like the running game saw a boost once Perkins was up to speed, the addition of another receiving threat will do wonders by not requiring the OL to hold blocks forever. Get a little healthy, another season in Solari's system - maybe some are underselling their potential to improve without new personnel.
RE: RE: Why does it take A LOT of luck for richburg to bounce back  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/19/2017 11:48 am : link
In comment 13398898 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13398894 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


from a subpar (and allegedly injured) year when we've already seen him play really well before?

Giants fans have a unique ability to frame everything as "worst in the league" man, it's incredible.




Because it's as opposed to a little luck, and it should be taken in toto with the rest of the bullet points.

What's incredible to me is the propensity of some here to speak in generalities.

It's more widespread than you're giving credit for. Generalities absolutely apply here. Anything that's wrong with this team is quite often stated as factually the worst the situation in the league.
RE: RE: With a little luck...  
ColHowPepper : 3/19/2017 11:51 am : link
In comment 13398808 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 13398788 Klaatu said:
Quote:

We may be able to get one O-Line prospect in this draft who has a chance to start from the get-go - the operative word being "may." If you're expecting more than that, you're most likely to be disappointed.

I believe you mean with a lot of luck -- there's just not a sterling class this year
gidie, when you've had no "luck" over a ten year period, it's not the class, it's the picker
RE: RE: Minority opinion  
trueblueinpw : 3/19/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13398903 jcn56 said:
Quote:


I agree with this and I think it's often overlooked. The line sucked this past season, without a doubt. There were some mitigating factors - injury and the skill positions didn't help.

Just like the running game saw a boost once Perkins was up to speed, the addition of another receiving threat will do wonders by not requiring the OL to hold blocks forever. Get a little healthy, another season in Solari's system - maybe some are underselling their potential to improve without new personnel.


Ellison and BM should help a lot. And I'm not just thinking about their catching the ball and making plays I'm thinking about their blocking. Our Ends were pathetic at blocking. Also thinking that we go RB and TE in the draft. A lot of folks think we are looking to grab a can't miss pass blocking LT who can start as a rookie and will be available at 23. Umm, talk about a black Unicorn! On the other hand, RB is a position where rookies can step in right away and maybe also pass catching TE.
If Flowers can become at least an average LT this season  
Jay on the Island : 3/19/2017 11:56 am : link
the offensive line would be much improved. Rhett Ellison is going to have a big impact as a blocker which will elevate the play of the OT's. What we often forget is just how bad the blocking has been from the TE position over the past two years. The Giants replaced one of the worst blocking TE's in the league in Donnell with one of the best. Tye will likely never be better than average but Adams has a chance to be a great blocker as well once he gets stronger and improves his technique.

I expect Pugh and Richburg to have big seasons and hopefully Solari can turn Fluker around.
No one was being asked to hold blocks forever.  
Devon : 3/19/2017 11:56 am : link
Eli got the ball out quicker than all but one other QB in the NFL last year (out of 40 qualifying). The Giants weren't running Complex Gilbride-esque plays either.

Even with a hopefully improved set of pass catchers, if the offense is going to appreciably improve, the ball likely needs to be held a longer and there needs to be a little more route complexity -- and pass pro is going to need to hold up better/longer for that to happen.
'immediatly makes the line more than adaquate'...  
Torrag : 3/19/2017 12:01 pm : link
...wishful thinking backed up by...nothing.
RE: No one was being asked to hold blocks forever.  
FStubbs : 3/19/2017 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13398917 Devon said:
Quote:
Eli got the ball out quicker than all but one other QB in the NFL last year (out of 40 qualifying). The Giants weren't running Complex Gilbride-esque plays either.

Even with a hopefully improved set of pass catchers, if the offense is going to appreciably improve, the ball likely needs to be held a longer and there needs to be a little more route complexity -- and pass pro is going to need to hold up better/longer for that to happen.


Right but typically Flowers (and Hart) couldn't hold blocks for more than a split second.
Right, but someone above claimed that things could improve if  
Devon : 3/19/2017 12:46 pm : link
the OL wasn't asked to "hold blocks forever," which is one the most nonsensical claims someone could make about any aspect of the 2016 (or 2015 or 2014) team.

It's close to impossible to ask for an offense that gets the ball out any quicker than what this team/QB did and Flowers was still absolute garbage in giving up pressure (the RT crew not too far behind).
RE: Right, but someone above claimed that things could improve if  
Diver_Down : 3/19/2017 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13398947 Devon said:
Quote:
the OL wasn't asked to "hold blocks forever," which is one the most nonsensical claims someone could make about any aspect of the 2016 (or 2015 or 2014) team.

It's close to impossible to ask for an offense that gets the ball out any quicker than what this team/QB did and Flowers was still absolute garbage in giving up pressure (the RT crew not too far behind).


To back that point up, Flowers and Hart gave up over 100 QB pressures. Flowers was responsible for 59 of those. The total attributed to Flowers and Hart doesn't even include the QB pressures that Newhouse yielded.
Awesome guys  
3r76jp : 3/19/2017 4:48 pm : link
I appreciate all the feed back. I'm just hoping that we'll be able to run the ball period. Cause if we can we wont be seeing as much of the 2 deep safeties.
RE: i'm worried  
LauderdaleMatty : 3/20/2017 1:14 am : link
In comment 13398778 area junc said:
Quote:
I get that the team is counting on huge years from Pugh and Richburg, but even if they get it, Flowers has shown no signs of developement. We used to complain about Beatty at LT but he was NEVER this bad, not even in his 1st game.

The Giants are so sold on Jerry that he could now potentially start at RG for 6 years here. Having a G who can't run block is a killer, especially when you primarily run between the tackles, and more specifically, right up the gut. The way we attack, we need a "man mover" at RG and it's frustrating we don't see that.

So the public blame goes to Eli while he currently has Ereck Flowers and the best of D.J. Fluker, Bobby Hart and a potential rookie protecting the edges. That is easily the worst set of pass blocking OTs in the league paired with a pocket passer. not a recipe for success.

now - with Fluker's contract details I'd say it looks like he's being paid like a back-up so I'm hopeful we can pick up a starting OT in the draft. But being down to hoping for a rookie starter is not comforting.


Beatty had a game w 4 holds and the Reach around sack was pathic at level few starting LTs ever sink to
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