From a PFT article at the deadline last year:
| The Cardinals, Giants, and Seahawks have varying degrees of interest in Thomas as well; the challenge would be coming up with what the Browns want (the source says it’s a second-round pick) and the cap space. |
There was another article with less than 24 hours remaining until the deadline saying the Giants were the last team interested.
The Giants only now have the cap space, after signing JPP, to do this. Assuming the circumstances remained the same and
*the Browns were willing to trade Thomas for a 2nd round pick
and
*the Giants are still interested
would you pull the trigger?
Trade Winds Blow Regarding Joe Thomas - (
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I hate giving up the second though.
why? with a LEGIT LT we are one of the best teams in football....its about winning a ring...we would have a good chance to do that for the next 2-3 years with an addition of thomas
Thomas Pugh Richburg Jerry/Fluker Flowers
Huuuuge upgrade
Because of a PFT report?
I don't think the Browns trade him for that though. With their additions, they look like they'll have a very nice line to help protect whatever QB they bring in. I doubt they want to break that up this season. And apparently he wants to go to Denver anyway and his agent is trying to make that happen. Of course it's up to the Browns but yeah. If Denver offered a similar package that the Giants offered, I'm sure Cleveland would give him what he wanted by sending him there.
Browns get younger and cheaper. Isn't that the moneyball approach?
I don't think the Browns trade him for that though. With their additions, they look like they'll have a very nice line to help protect whatever QB they bring in. I doubt they want to break that up this season. And apparently he wants to go to Denver anyway and his agent is trying to make that happen. Of course it's up to the Browns but yeah. If Denver offered a similar package that the Giants offered, I'm sure Cleveland would give him what he wanted by sending him there.
I think Cleveland wants to bomb again this year to have a shot at the QB talent in next year's draft. I think the Jets are doing the same.
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Then I'd do it.
why? with a LEGIT LT we are one of the best teams in football....its about winning a ring...we would have a good chance to do that for the next 2-3 years with an addition of thomas
You're making it seem like the second round player won't be a good one. Odds are he will be a good one and he's cost controlled for 4 years or so.
I've seen about 35 drafts in my years of being a nyg fan. I can probably lost about 7-8 second rounders that didn't pan out here. The Giants own the second round.
I'd have to consider it but that second rounder isn't chump change.
Granted, it is a late second, but we have been getting impact players in the second rounds recently (Collins, Shepard).
I think that the first three rounds need to be OL, DT, and TE (not in that order though). If Hankins is somehow able to be brought back, I'd be much more comfortable parting with the 2nd rounder and using the 1st rounder on a TE.
If Hankins (or a FA DT) can't come here, I'm not sure I want to part with a 2nd for Thomas.
It really is a close, close call though. I wouldn't think it's a bad move if they traded a second... just not sure it'd be the best.
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We would instantly become strong contenders...
We are already strong contenders so you're gonna have to come up with a better argument than that.
Contenders? Sure... strong contenders in a tough NFC with Flowers at LT? I beg to differ...
We'll make the playoffs with our WR and defense as it stands but without significant improvement from Flowers at LT, we don't have much of a shot, IMO... if he improves a lot more than he did between his rookie and sophomore season, I'm excited but I'm not holding out hope...
That includes solidifying a offensive line that will be in place for their next franchise QB.
That offensive line includes Joe Thomas at left tackle.
Yeah, good thing they won't take one of those OL prospects that look to lockdown LT for the foreseeable future... there aren't any of those prospects this year, IMO
Can't see us investing another 1st round pick in an OL... def not this crop...
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In comment 13399089 Saos1n said:
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We would instantly become strong contenders...
We are already strong contenders so you're gonna have to come up with a better argument than that.
Contenders? Sure... strong contenders in a tough NFC with Flowers at LT? I beg to differ...
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In comment 13399136 Milton said:
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In comment 13399089 Saos1n said:
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We would instantly become strong contenders...
We are already strong contenders so you're gonna have to come up with a better argument than that.
Contenders? Sure... strong contenders in a tough NFC with Flowers at LT? I beg to differ...
The Giants beat Dallas twice last year and were dominating the Packers in Green Bay before the roof caved in on them. They are as strong as any team in the NFC. Ultimately it comes down to health/injuries, which is true of all teams that would consider themselves strong contenders.
Again, can we make the playoffs and try to contend, sure, but the following numbers are not going to take a Lombardi Trophy home...
26th in points per game...
29th in rushing yards per game...
3.5 yards per rushing attempt...
If you believe it, well, ok... we just differ on opinion...
Joe Thomas, which won't happen, protecting eli's blind side would do wonders for this offense and team... longer sustaining drives with a more balanced approach on offense and keeping our defense on the sideline for long stretches would make us a MUCH stronger contender... if you disagree, so be it...
I hope you're right
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Can't see us investing another 1st round pick in an OL... def not this crop...
I think Cam Robinson or Ryan Ramczyk are certainly worth the 23rd pick and maybe Bolles and Lamp as well. I'm sure some even rank Bolles and Lamp ahead of Robinson and Ramczyk. And some have all four going before the Giants pick.
I just don't believe they fix what we are in need of... again, I am pulling for Flowers to turn it around and become the cornerstone LT that Reese drafted him to be, but I can't see it happening... if that is indeed the case, then we are in need of that franchise LT and I don't see that in this draft...
I like RR more than any of the others but I'm hesitant to trust him with reports surfacing about his desire to play... and heart is something you can't measure at the combine... add in his hip issues and there too many red flags for me...
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For an all pro hall of famer hmmm I don't know. Maybe we should ask Eli about this.
Anthony Munoz is an All Pro Hall of Famer and he won't cost a 2nd round pick.
Weak
And they easily could... JT Thomas, D Harris, OV
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In comment 13399177 3r76jp said:
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For an all pro hall of famer hmmm I don't know. Maybe we should ask Eli about this.
Anthony Munoz is an All Pro Hall of Famer and he won't cost a 2nd round pick.
Weak
Expensive but we get to SB, they get 2 more very useful picks.
And yet you not only opened the thread, but felt compelled to reply.
Um, at RT?
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then pull the trigger already. With Big Joe at RT we have one of the better OL's in the division. There isn't anyone in the draft or left in free agency that can come in on day 1 and effectively be the starter.
Um, at RT?
Lol. yeah, that was a typo.
Or a Thomas (oops)
Hope one of the TE falls to us in the first and the entire offense is fixed over night with Eli, Brandon Marshall, ect all in the twilights of their careers. This is a win-now team. Enough projects. Let's go for it.
That said, the market for a LT are absurd. The Browns would probably want two 1s lol.
Sterling Shepard....nice player...low salary.
Our last two no 2's...makes it tough..
Exactly why would they. They dont need the cap room. They dont need MORE draft picks.. AND they would be trading one of the best left tackles in the entire NFL.. you will need a LT for your new QB whoever that is..
How often to left tackles get traded?? like almost never...
This is basically some Pro Football Talk rumor that has become the stuff of legend IMO...
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But we will see come draft day...
Browns get younger and cheaper. Isn't that the moneyball approach?
As has been pointed out repeatedly by jcn et al, the Browns are loaded with high draft picks and have spent a lot of money to upgrade their Ol..No real reason for them not to keep Thomas in lieu of a high draft pick they really do not need.
That said, agree with Terps
We could also draft a guard as well to develop as well.
Tend to dislike the concept of paying a #2 pick for the privilege of paying a big contract price on top of it.
Because he isn't 25. Regardless of his injury history, he's at the point now where they are likely to start hitting him. Maybe they don't, but a 1st round pick that's cost protected for 4 years is a massive asset to give for any player over 30 (he's 32) that isn't a QB.
On one hand they're fully cognizant of the win now mode they're in given their QB's age.
On the other, they can't protect his blind side in a league filled with talented pass rushers. He is consequently visibly uncomfortable in the pocket. Worse, he fumbles a lot when smacked by Dlineman.
What can they do? A 2nd for Thomas seems among the least bad options. I'm against it - aware of the home runs the Giants have repeatedly hit in the 2nd round - but only mildly. One thing I love - and it's often the first thing I look up when NYG acquire a player - is the endless 16s next to his "games started". That's no small thing.
The long shot hope is that Flowers continues to develop (only about to be 23, after all) but that may be overly optimistic given that there are fundamental issues with instinct & technique.
The Giants are in a pickle.
Everyone leaves out the 10 million. And he's 32. And we nail our second round picks. It's not a no brainer.
History says it's the 22 year old.
I am not saying I am vehemently opposed but for a bunch of people that treat draft picks like gold I am surprised at how quickly you want to give up a 2nd rounder.
Not to mention the whole Ereck Flowers thing. None of us know what he's going to do this season. You might think you do, but you don't. He might be the same player. He might be even worse. He might be a little better. He might be a lot better, AT LT.
You have to assume the 2nd round pick turns into a good player rather quickly. Then let's talk. I think many are assuming the 2nd won't amount to much.
Because he isn't 25. Regardless of his injury history, he's at the point now where they are likely to start hitting him. Maybe they don't, but a 1st round pick that's cost protected for 4 years is a massive asset to give for any player over 30 (he's 32) that isn't a QB.
Eli isn't 25 anymore either. Do you want to waste the last few years of his career having him run for his life? You want to say that since Thomas is getting older that the injuries could start. We have gotten really lucky with Eli too when it comes to injuries and Eli is also getting older. Want to continue having a marshmallow protect his blind side?
This is a guaranteed anchor on your left side. We go from having the worst LT in football to having one of the best.
I'd cave on a 2nd since we don't have a high 2nd, but I still see no reason why Cleveland would do it.
As for the money, you were gung ho about giving JPP that kind of cash and he isn't a HOFer like Thomas is. Why get cheap now?
I've got no problems paying an elite player elite money. Thomas is an elite player.
I'd hate it too, but the trickle down effect of adding Thomas could go beyond just the left tackle spot. You could potentially be improving up to three OL positions. It's the kind of move that IMO elevates this team from "possible contender" to "serious problem for everyone else".
This team is clearly going for it now. So if that's the approach, actually go for it. As it stands now we're a Pugh injury away from who knows what the hell happens on the offensive line.
The question still remains - he's elite, he's paid less than market (compared to recent signings) and he's been healthy for the duration of his career. Why trade him, and why trade him for only a 2nd round pick?
If this guy had been available for a 2nd rounder, don't you think someone - like Elway - would have given it up by this point, even if Reese wouldn't?
But if I'm the Giants, if a first rounder gets it done I make that deal. The odds we get an elite player at that spot are small.
I wouldn't cry if we traded the 2nd for Thomas but I don't think it's a slam dunk.
Since when is a 32 year old a lock to maintain his high level of play? Am I missing something? Nothing is a lock. It's probably a safer bet to expect Thomas to maintain things compared with expecting the 2nd rounder to come in and dominate but that doesn't mean it's a no brainer of a trade.
You're taking on more money and giving away a young cost controlled player. And you have a former first rounder at LT already. It's not an easy decision at all.
What if Flowers was destined to mature in year three? Something we have seen 100s of times here. Then what? You just lost your LT of the future and took on more salary and lost a second round pick. Sounds painful to me.
What if the Giants see things in Flowers these last few weeks that bumps up their beliefs in his future?
We can debate the merits of that from the Browns end but its not very interesting. They ard in fire-sale rebuilding mode with a notoriously cheap owner. And its the Browns. Why did they give up on Bill Belichick? Why havent they gotten a good QB since Bernie Kosar? Why have they barely sniffed the Playoffs since Jim Brown was running?
They are a poorly run team and its no secret Thomas has been "on the block" for a couple years now. Why a deal hasnt gone down is anyone's guess, but hes been available.
I wouldn't cry if we traded the 2nd for Thomas but I don't think it's a slam dunk.
Since when is a 32 year old a lock to maintain his high level of play? Am I missing something? Nothing is a lock. It's probably a safer bet to expect Thomas to maintain things compared with expecting the 2nd rounder to come in and dominate but that doesn't mean it's a no brainer of a trade.
You're taking on more money and giving away a young cost controlled player. And you have a former first rounder at LT already. It's not an easy decision at all.
What if Flowers was destined to mature in year three? Something we have seen 100s of times here. Then what? You just lost your LT of the future and took on more salary and lost a second round pick. Sounds painful to me.
What if the Giants see things in Flowers these last few weeks that bumps up their beliefs in his future?
There is something wrong with the Giants when it comes to judging and coacting offensive linemen. I don't know what that something is, but they have spent two recent first round picks on left tackles that can't play left tackle, and Richburg's regression in 2016 was disquieting.
Right now I'm not sure I trust the Giants all that much when it comes to the offensive line.
The whole Flowers to RT thing seems like a huge stretch to me. I have never seen a Giants player struggle at LT only to flourish at RT. I've seen tackles struggle and flourish at guard, but never LT to RT.
I have seen LTs struggle here in years one and two only to flourish in year three. Jumbo Elliot comes to mind. He was a mess in 88, better in 89 but still shaky and very good in year 3. William Roberts was a mess at tackle. Moved to guard after a few years and flourished.
What's confounding is we don't know how the feel about Flowers at LT. Lip service means nothing to me. And just because they didn't chase after some overpriced LTs in FA doesn't convince me of anything either. I am with you, Flowers is a huge ?? mark but we don't know what the Giants are thinking here.
What if we draft a tackle in round 1? All this talk of no OTs in the draft is overstated. For one thing, there may not be any BLUE GOOSE Tackles but that doesn't mean there aren't any viable starting LTs. Ok fine, there isn't a Tony Boselli. There sure looks to be a few Jumbos out there.
Having said all that, he is an All-Pro and is paid below market. Why would the Browns trade him for a second? The only reasonable answer is "they are the Browns."
If I am the Giants, I do that deal everyday. If I am the Browns I would not return that phone call.
Having said all that, he is an All-Pro and is paid below market. Why would the Browns trade him for a second? The only reasonable answer is "they are the Browns."
If I am the Giants, I do that deal everyday. If I am the Browns I would not return that phone call.
You're mixing up two positions where the Giants have not behaved similarly at all.
On the OL you have a 1st rounder (top 10), 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, FA 3rd rounder (Jerry) and a 7th rounder in Hart. It's not that the Giants do not prioritize the OL, they've just had a combination of bad selections and bad health (going back some time, with Beatty, Baas and Snee).
At LB, the Giants deliberately deprioritize. They don't spend much in resources, draft picks or FA, thinking they'd rather spend higher on the DL and on defensive backs. Right or wrong, the formula has won them two Super Bowls and they had the defense humming last season.
Good players are traded from bad teams all the time.
It's probably not likely to happen, but to characterize it as some pipe dream is silly.