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Joe Thomas: Yes or No?

area junc : 3/19/2017 3:50 pm


From a PFT article at the deadline last year:

Quote:
The Cardinals, Giants, and Seahawks have varying degrees of interest in Thomas as well; the challenge would be coming up with what the Browns want (the source says itís a second-round pick) and the cap space.


There was another article with less than 24 hours remaining until the deadline saying the Giants were the last team interested.

The Giants only now have the cap space, after signing JPP, to do this. Assuming the circumstances remained the same and

*the Browns were willing to trade Thomas for a 2nd round pick

and

*the Giants are still interested

would you pull the trigger?
Trade Winds Blow Regarding Joe Thomas - ( New Window )
For a second  
uconngiant : 3/19/2017 3:52 pm : link
A big YES.
Not this again.  
superspynyg : 3/19/2017 3:52 pm : link
This has been discussed 1000 times already.
Yes  
Saos1n : 3/19/2017 3:53 pm : link
We would instantly become strong contenders...

Instantly
Not for a second rounder  
djm : 3/19/2017 3:55 pm : link
But I reserve the right to be happy if they did it.

I hate giving up the second though.
...  
BleedBlue : 3/19/2017 3:55 pm : link
a second round pick is a NO BRAINER. anyone who says no is out of their minds. this would IMMEDIATELY make us a contender....make this trade. sign blount and go into the draft with 1 or 2 minor holes (DT and LBer). draft a LB in round 1...
Can we give up the second in 2018?  
djm : 3/19/2017 3:55 pm : link
Then I'd do it.
Give them  
Gman11 : 3/19/2017 3:56 pm : link
Josh Johnson. They'll be thrilled to get another QB.
If Cleveland just wants a second rounder  
Koffman : 3/19/2017 3:58 pm : link
then pull the trigger already. With Big Joe at RT we have one of the better OL's in the division. There isn't anyone in the draft or left in free agency that can come in on day 1 and effectively be the starter.
RE: Can we give up the second in 2018?  
BleedBlue : 3/19/2017 3:58 pm : link
In comment 13399094 djm said:
Quote:
Then I'd do it.


why? with a LEGIT LT we are one of the best teams in football....its about winning a ring...we would have a good chance to do that for the next 2-3 years with an addition of thomas
2nd rounder  
annexOPR : 3/19/2017 3:58 pm : link
In a heartbeat

Thomas Pugh Richburg Jerry/Fluker Flowers

Huuuuge upgrade
It also gives us the choice  
Koffman : 3/19/2017 4:00 pm : link
of addressing other areas via the draft instead of OL. We could definately go BPA in Rd 1.
Unique thought, nobody has brought this up.....  
Keith : 3/19/2017 4:03 pm : link
It seems like the Giants don't want to move Flowers. They invested a high pick and he's only in his 3rd season. If they get Thomas, there is no guarantee that Flowers can play RT. Seems like they only showed interest in lineman that can play RT and that tells me that they don't want to move Flowers.
Doug, I am with you.  
robbieballs2003 : 3/19/2017 4:04 pm : link
I am very hesitant to give up this year's second round pick. If it is next year's 2 and even a later round pick this year then I would do it. It is just that there are so many talented players that will be available for our second round pick that could be a cornerstone for our future. The draft isn't about this year. It is about a little this year but more for the upcoming years. DRC will be off the team soon. We could have his replacement ready to go. We could draft oir future OT there. We could get another pass rusher to transition to our next great DE after Vernon and JPP's contracts expire. This draft is loaded throught the first few rounds.
What's the word...  
Chris in Philly : 3/19/2017 4:06 pm : link
from Thomas' camp?
Someone paid Whitworth quite a bit more per year  
jcn56 : 3/19/2017 4:06 pm : link
at 35 years old. Why do people continue to think that Thomas is available at a discount for only a 2nd round pick despite being a few years younger?

Because of a PFT report?
Yes. Hell yes.  
est1986 : 3/19/2017 4:07 pm : link
Never going to happen though.
I think 90% of us would gladly  
illmatic : 3/19/2017 4:11 pm : link
trade a second rounder for him. Last season I was kind of iffy about it but this line really needs the help. If you can get him for that and improve the OL and the offense overall for a second rounder, you do it.

I don't think the Browns trade him for that though. With their additions, they look like they'll have a very nice line to help protect whatever QB they bring in. I doubt they want to break that up this season. And apparently he wants to go to Denver anyway and his agent is trying to make that happen. Of course it's up to the Browns but yeah. If Denver offered a similar package that the Giants offered, I'm sure Cleveland would give him what he wanted by sending him there.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/19/2017 4:12 pm : link
I'd be shocked if the Giants traded for Thomas. I don't see it happening.
A 3rd and flowers  
rasbutant : 3/19/2017 4:13 pm : link
For Thomas?

Browns get younger and cheaper. Isn't that the moneyball approach?
RE: I think 90% of us would gladly  
robbieballs2003 : 3/19/2017 4:15 pm : link
In comment 13399122 illmatic said:
Quote:
trade a second rounder for him. Last season I was kind of iffy about it but this line really needs the help. If you can get him for that and improve the OL and the offense overall for a second rounder, you do it.

I don't think the Browns trade him for that though. With their additions, they look like they'll have a very nice line to help protect whatever QB they bring in. I doubt they want to break that up this season. And apparently he wants to go to Denver anyway and his agent is trying to make that happen. Of course it's up to the Browns but yeah. If Denver offered a similar package that the Giants offered, I'm sure Cleveland would give him what he wanted by sending him there.


I think Cleveland wants to bomb again this year to have a shot at the QB talent in next year's draft. I think the Jets are doing the same.
RE: RE: Can we give up the second in 2018?  
djm : 3/19/2017 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13399098 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 13399094 djm said:


Quote:


Then I'd do it.



why? with a LEGIT LT we are one of the best teams in football....its about winning a ring...we would have a good chance to do that for the next 2-3 years with an addition of thomas


You're making it seem like the second round player won't be a good one. Odds are he will be a good one and he's cost controlled for 4 years or so.

I've seen about 35 drafts in my years of being a nyg fan. I can probably lost about 7-8 second rounders that didn't pan out here. The Giants own the second round.

I'd have to consider it but that second rounder isn't chump change.
I've give them a 2nd and a 5th  
mfsd : 3/19/2017 4:22 pm : link
Yeah, that's a lot...but I'd still do it, to lock down LT with an All-Pro for the rest of the Eli era
RE: Yes  
Milton : 3/19/2017 4:27 pm : link
In comment 13399089 Saos1n said:
Quote:
We would instantly become strong contenders...
We are already strong contenders so you're gonna have to come up with a better argument than that.
Let him go to Denver (his preference)...  
Milton : 3/19/2017 4:31 pm : link
It makes it less likely they draft an OL with the 20th pick.
I'd give a 3rd and a 5th  
Sonic Youth : 3/19/2017 4:34 pm : link
but I don't know about a 2nd.

Granted, it is a late second, but we have been getting impact players in the second rounds recently (Collins, Shepard).

I think that the first three rounds need to be OL, DT, and TE (not in that order though). If Hankins is somehow able to be brought back, I'd be much more comfortable parting with the 2nd rounder and using the 1st rounder on a TE.

If Hankins (or a FA DT) can't come here, I'm not sure I want to part with a 2nd for Thomas.

It really is a close, close call though. I wouldn't think it's a bad move if they traded a second... just not sure it'd be the best.
RE: RE: Yes  
Saos1n : 3/19/2017 4:36 pm : link
In comment 13399136 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13399089 Saos1n said:


Quote:


We would instantly become strong contenders...

We are already strong contenders so you're gonna have to come up with a better argument than that.


Contenders? Sure... strong contenders in a tough NFC with Flowers at LT? I beg to differ...

We'll make the playoffs with our WR and defense as it stands but without significant improvement from Flowers at LT, we don't have much of a shot, IMO... if he improves a lot more than he did between his rookie and sophomore season, I'm excited but I'm not holding out hope...
I get the feeling  
Rory : 3/19/2017 4:37 pm : link
Cleveland is finally rebuilding with the correct strategy in place.

That includes solidifying a offensive line that will be in place for their next franchise QB.

That offensive line includes Joe Thomas at left tackle.
RE: Let him go to Denver (his preference)...  
Saos1n : 3/19/2017 4:39 pm : link
In comment 13399138 Milton said:
Quote:
It makes it less likely they draft an OL with the 20th pick.


Yeah, good thing they won't take one of those OL prospects that look to lockdown LT for the foreseeable future... there aren't any of those prospects this year, IMO

Can't see us investing another 1st round pick in an OL... def not this crop...
RE: RE: RE: Yes  
Milton : 3/19/2017 4:41 pm : link
In comment 13399141 Saos1n said:
Quote:
In comment 13399136 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13399089 Saos1n said:


Quote:


We would instantly become strong contenders...

We are already strong contenders so you're gonna have to come up with a better argument than that.



Contenders? Sure... strong contenders in a tough NFC with Flowers at LT? I beg to differ...
The Giants beat Dallas twice last year and were dominating the Packers in Green Bay before the roof caved in on them. They are as strong as any team in the NFC. Ultimately it comes down to health/injuries, which is true of all teams that would consider themselves strong contenders.
Joe Thomas  
Koffman : 3/19/2017 4:48 pm : link
Instantly upgrades our OL, which in turn upgrades the running game, which also helps protect Eli, which also.....well you get the point. Thomas makes our OL very good, more importantly, he makes it very good, right now. Which is something we probably aren't going to find in the draft and there are definately no game changers @LT left on the free agent market. The one mantra I have been hearing on this board over the past week is the Giants front office wants to win right now. Well, the signing of Thomas would give us a damn good chance of doing just that. The move protects Eli (most likely) for the rest of his career with us. It also allows us to go with a game changing rookie in round 1 instead of an O-linemen that would need development. There are just too many positives not to do this, the only question remaining is will Cleveland let Thomas go for a 2nd ?
I believe in Flowers, I think he takes the next step and proves  
SterlingArcher : 3/19/2017 4:48 pm : link
he can be a elite LT. The Giants hopefully get 2 starters and 2 quality back ups from this years draft, so the picks are too precious to give up for an aging player.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Yes  
Saos1n : 3/19/2017 4:50 pm : link
In comment 13399148 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13399141 Saos1n said:


Quote:


In comment 13399136 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13399089 Saos1n said:


Quote:


We would instantly become strong contenders...

We are already strong contenders so you're gonna have to come up with a better argument than that.



Contenders? Sure... strong contenders in a tough NFC with Flowers at LT? I beg to differ...

The Giants beat Dallas twice last year and were dominating the Packers in Green Bay before the roof caved in on them. They are as strong as any team in the NFC. Ultimately it comes down to health/injuries, which is true of all teams that would consider themselves strong contenders.


Again, can we make the playoffs and try to contend, sure, but the following numbers are not going to take a Lombardi Trophy home...

26th in points per game...
29th in rushing yards per game...
3.5 yards per rushing attempt...

If you believe it, well, ok... we just differ on opinion...

Joe Thomas, which won't happen, protecting eli's blind side would do wonders for this offense and team... longer sustaining drives with a more balanced approach on offense and keeping our defense on the sideline for long stretches would make us a MUCH stronger contender... if you disagree, so be it...
RE: I believe in Flowers, I think he takes the next step and proves  
Saos1n : 3/19/2017 4:51 pm : link
In comment 13399151 SterlingArcher said:
Quote:
he can be a elite LT. The Giants hopefully get 2 starters and 2 quality back ups from this years draft, so the picks are too precious to give up for an aging player.


I hope you're right
RE: RE: Let him go to Denver (his preference)...  
Milton : 3/19/2017 4:53 pm : link
In comment 13399146 Saos1n said:
Quote:
Can't see us investing another 1st round pick in an OL... def not this crop...
I think Cam Robinson or Ryan Ramczyk are certainly worth the 23rd pick and maybe Bolles and Lamp as well. I'm sure some even rank Bolles and Lamp ahead of Robinson and Ramczyk. And some have all four going before the Giants pick.
JT for a 2nd pick, sure  
David B. : 3/19/2017 4:56 pm : link
But that seems far-fetched.
RE: RE: RE: Let him go to Denver (his preference)...  
Saos1n : 3/19/2017 5:00 pm : link
In comment 13399159 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13399146 Saos1n said:


Quote:


Can't see us investing another 1st round pick in an OL... def not this crop...

I think Cam Robinson or Ryan Ramczyk are certainly worth the 23rd pick and maybe Bolles and Lamp as well. I'm sure some even rank Bolles and Lamp ahead of Robinson and Ramczyk. And some have all four going before the Giants pick.


I just don't believe they fix what we are in need of... again, I am pulling for Flowers to turn it around and become the cornerstone LT that Reese drafted him to be, but I can't see it happening... if that is indeed the case, then we are in need of that franchise LT and I don't see that in this draft...

I like RR more than any of the others but I'm hesitant to trust him with reports surfacing about his desire to play... and heart is something you can't measure at the combine... add in his hip issues and there too many red flags for me...
A second rounder  
3r76jp : 3/19/2017 5:06 pm : link
For an all pro hall of famer hmmm I don't know. Maybe we should ask Eli about this.
Oui  
Giantgator : 3/19/2017 5:10 pm : link
.
RE: A second rounder  
Milton : 3/19/2017 5:22 pm : link
In comment 13399177 3r76jp said:
Quote:
For an all pro hall of famer hmmm I don't know. Maybe we should ask Eli about this.
Anthony Munoz is an All Pro Hall of Famer and he won't cost a 2nd round pick.
Giants don't have the cap  
Beer Man : 3/19/2017 5:51 pm : link
Thomas salary for 2017 is $8.8M plus a $2.5M roster bonus, plus a $200K workout bonus. The team would have to restructure a number of contracts (or make cuts) to fit Thomas under the salary cap.
RE: RE: A second rounder  
Saos1n : 3/19/2017 5:55 pm : link
In comment 13399188 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13399177 3r76jp said:


Quote:


For an all pro hall of famer hmmm I don't know. Maybe we should ask Eli about this.

Anthony Munoz is an All Pro Hall of Famer and he won't cost a 2nd round pick.


Weak
Beer Man  
Vin_Cuccs : 3/19/2017 5:56 pm : link
We are currently about $11 million under the cap with the re-signing of Pierre-Paul.
RE: Giants don't have the cap  
Saos1n : 3/19/2017 5:56 pm : link
In comment 13399220 Beer Man said:
Quote:
Thomas salary for 2017 is $8.8M plus a $2.5M roster bonus, plus a $200K workout bonus. The team would have to restructure a number of contracts (or make cuts) to fit Thomas under the salary cap.


And they easily could... JT Thomas, D Harris, OV
RE: RE: RE: A second rounder  
Milton : 3/19/2017 6:11 pm : link
In comment 13399225 Saos1n said:
Quote:
In comment 13399188 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 13399177 3r76jp said:


Quote:


For an all pro hall of famer hmmm I don't know. Maybe we should ask Eli about this.

Anthony Munoz is an All Pro Hall of Famer and he won't cost a 2nd round pick.



Weak
He is still very strong. He doesn't have the movement skills he once had, but I wouldn't call him "weak".
Thomas isn't going anywhere  
micky : 3/19/2017 7:01 pm : link
time to move on
This again?  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/19/2017 7:07 pm : link
Why must we endlessly discuss Thomas? The Giants aren't trading a 2nd rounder.
I call BS on a 2nd  
UConn4523 : 3/19/2017 7:27 pm : link
why on earth would hey do that?
I would pick Thomas up from the airport  
ZGiants98 : 3/19/2017 7:27 pm : link
and help him move his things to NY on my back for a second round pick. Never going to happen, though.
2 years too late.  
Giant John : 3/19/2017 7:28 pm : link
No
again?? this must be the 87th thread on this.  
Victor in CT : 3/19/2017 7:43 pm : link
this topic is deader than Seabiscuit
How about  
old man : 3/19/2017 8:07 pm : link
3rd rds in '17 and '18, conditionally; we make the SB, the '18 becomes a #2?

Expensive but we get to SB, they get 2 more very useful picks.
RE: Not this again.  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/19/2017 8:16 pm : link
In comment 13399087 superspynyg said:
Quote:
This has been discussed 1000 times already.

And yet you not only opened the thread, but felt compelled to reply.
RE: If Cleveland just wants a second rounder  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/19/2017 8:19 pm : link
In comment 13399097 Koffman said:
Quote:
then pull the trigger already. With Big Joe at RT we have one of the better OL's in the division. There isn't anyone in the draft or left in free agency that can come in on day 1 and effectively be the starter.

Um, at RT?
RE: RE: If Cleveland just wants a second rounder  
Koffman : 3/19/2017 8:27 pm : link
In comment 13399341 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 13399097 Koffman said:


Quote:


then pull the trigger already. With Big Joe at RT we have one of the better OL's in the division. There isn't anyone in the draft or left in free agency that can come in on day 1 and effectively be the starter.


Um, at RT?


Lol. yeah, that was a typo.
yea  
BlackburnBalledOut : 3/19/2017 8:28 pm : link
in a heartbeat
A Staley in the hand  
PEEJ : 3/19/2017 8:32 pm : link
is worth two draft choices in the bush
RE: A Staley in the hand  
PEEJ : 3/19/2017 8:33 pm : link
In comment 13399354 PEEJ said:
Quote:
is worth two draft choices in the bush


Or a Thomas (oops)
yeah yeah...  
ZGiants98 : 3/19/2017 8:39 pm : link
It's unlikely, but this is the kind of move that makes you a legitimate Super Bowl contender. Anybody not willing to give up a 2nd rounder for a franchise LT is out of their friggin minds. lol.

Hope one of the TE falls to us in the first and the entire offense is fixed over night with Eli, Brandon Marshall, ect all in the twilights of their careers. This is a win-now team. Enough projects. Let's go for it.

That said, the market for a LT are absurd. The Browns would probably want two 1s lol.
People  
nygnyy274 : 3/19/2017 9:01 pm : link
Saying No lol. Comical
Is this real?  
Rjanyg : 3/19/2017 9:04 pm : link
Why would Cleveland want to trade Joe Thomas?
mm  
grizz299 : 3/19/2017 9:14 pm : link
Collins all pro and low salary
Sterling Shepard....nice player...low salary.

Our last two no 2's...makes it tough..
RE: Is this real?  
blueblood : 3/19/2017 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13399380 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
Why would Cleveland want to trade Joe Thomas?


Exactly why would they. They dont need the cap room. They dont need MORE draft picks.. AND they would be trading one of the best left tackles in the entire NFL.. you will need a LT for your new QB whoever that is..

How often to left tackles get traded?? like almost never...

This is basically some Pro Football Talk rumor that has become the stuff of legend IMO...
|
But we will see come draft day...
RE: A 3rd and flowers  
Mark from Jersey : 3/19/2017 9:54 pm : link
In comment 13399124 rasbutant said:
Quote:
For Thomas?

Browns get younger and cheaper. Isn't that the moneyball approach?
Sign me up!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thomas  
Dragon : 3/19/2017 10:36 pm : link
Is good but does he make Eli a running QB all of a sudden no matter who is on the left or right side if anyone gets near Eli he is going down. Not sure if there is a way to prevent a QB from getting sacked ours included that seems to be the belief here just because we get Thomas, Eli will never be sacked again. Today Thomas would be a move not needed he will still be there after the draft why panic before hand.
A second round pick for a player of this quality is a no brainer  
Go Terps : 3/19/2017 11:08 pm : link
If he gives us three years of quality pay that is likely more than what we would get out of a second round selection.
RE: A second round pick for a player of this quality is a no brainer  
Big Blue '56 : 3/20/2017 9:11 am : link
In comment 13399462 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If he gives us three years of quality pay that is likely more than what we would get out of a second round selection.


As has been pointed out repeatedly by jcn et al, the Browns are loaded with high draft picks and have spent a lot of money to upgrade their Ol..No real reason for them not to keep Thomas in lieu of a high draft pick they really do not need.

That said, agree with Terps
A potential line of  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/20/2017 10:12 am : link
Thomas, Pugh, Richburg, Flucker, Flowers, would be great.

We could also draft a guard as well to develop as well.

Giants regularly score big with their #1 and #2 picks  
JonC : 3/20/2017 10:17 am : link
I'd prefer to keep the #2 for the pipeline/future.

Tend to dislike the concept of paying a #2 pick for the privilege of paying a big contract price on top of it.
Why not give up a 1st round pick?  
EricJ : 3/20/2017 10:24 am : link
shit.. we may draft an offensive lineman with the first pick. We don't know WTF we are going to get (ie look at Flowers). You would be spending a first round pick on a pro bowl tackle. It is virtually guaranteed production.
RE: Why not give up a 1st round pick?  
UConn4523 : 3/20/2017 10:27 am : link
In comment 13399682 EricJ said:
Quote:
shit.. we may draft an offensive lineman with the first pick. We don't know WTF we are going to get (ie look at Flowers). You would be spending a first round pick on a pro bowl tackle. It is virtually guaranteed production.


Because he isn't 25. Regardless of his injury history, he's at the point now where they are likely to start hitting him. Maybe they don't, but a 1st round pick that's cost protected for 4 years is a massive asset to give for any player over 30 (he's 32) that isn't a QB.
That Flowers pick not working out (at least thus far)  
Overseer : 3/20/2017 10:43 am : link
has really set the Giants back and put them in a pickle.

On one hand they're fully cognizant of the win now mode they're in given their QB's age.

On the other, they can't protect his blind side in a league filled with talented pass rushers. He is consequently visibly uncomfortable in the pocket. Worse, he fumbles a lot when smacked by Dlineman.

What can they do? A 2nd for Thomas seems among the least bad options. I'm against it - aware of the home runs the Giants have repeatedly hit in the 2nd round - but only mildly. One thing I love - and it's often the first thing I look up when NYG acquire a player - is the endless 16s next to his "games started". That's no small thing.

The long shot hope is that Flowers continues to develop (only about to be 23, after all) but that may be overly optimistic given that there are fundamental issues with instinct & technique.

The Giants are in a pickle.
I think getting a player like Joe Thomas for  
Jersey55 : 3/20/2017 11:02 am : link
a second round pick is a no brainer since if you kept the pick you wouldn't be able to get a player like Thomas.
RE: A second round pick for a player of this quality is a no brainer  
djm : 3/20/2017 11:08 am : link
In comment 13399462 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If he gives us three years of quality pay that is likely more than what we would get out of a second round selection.


Everyone leaves out the 10 million. And he's 32. And we nail our second round picks. It's not a no brainer.
who's more likely to give a team 3 quality years?  
djm : 3/20/2017 11:12 am : link
the 22 year old or the 32 year old?

History says it's the 22 year old.

I am not saying I am vehemently opposed but for a bunch of people that treat draft picks like gold I am surprised at how quickly you want to give up a 2nd rounder.

Not to mention the whole Ereck Flowers thing. None of us know what he's going to do this season. You might think you do, but you don't. He might be the same player. He might be even worse. He might be a little better. He might be a lot better, AT LT.

You have to assume the 2nd round pick turns into a good player rather quickly. Then let's talk. I think many are assuming the 2nd won't amount to much.
RE: RE: Why not give up a 1st round pick?  
EricJ : 3/20/2017 11:18 am : link
In comment 13399685 UConn4523 said:
Quote:


Because he isn't 25. Regardless of his injury history, he's at the point now where they are likely to start hitting him. Maybe they don't, but a 1st round pick that's cost protected for 4 years is a massive asset to give for any player over 30 (he's 32) that isn't a QB.


Eli isn't 25 anymore either. Do you want to waste the last few years of his career having him run for his life? You want to say that since Thomas is getting older that the injuries could start. We have gotten really lucky with Eli too when it comes to injuries and Eli is also getting older. Want to continue having a marshmallow protect his blind side?

This is a guaranteed anchor on your left side. We go from having the worst LT in football to having one of the best.
Eli isn't 25 but I wouldn't trade a 1st round pick  
UConn4523 : 3/20/2017 11:33 am : link
for a 32 old LT if we had Geno Smith starting or a 27 year old Tom Brady. You are mortgaging your future for "win now" which isn't guaranteed at all.

I'd cave on a 2nd since we don't have a high 2nd, but I still see no reason why Cleveland would do it.
djm  
Go Terps : 3/20/2017 11:39 am : link
A 22 year old is not likely to come in and give us 3 years of play at Joe Thomas's level. The first year for that 22 year old is likely to be spent in a significant learning curve, even if the guy eventually works out.

As for the money, you were gung ho about giving JPP that kind of cash and he isn't a HOFer like Thomas is. Why get cheap now?

I've got no problems paying an elite player elite money. Thomas is an elite player.
I'd actually get fired up if we traded for Thomas  
JonC : 3/20/2017 11:43 am : link
but would hate missing out on the prospect next month too.
RE: I'd actually get fired up if we traded for Thomas  
Go Terps : 3/20/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13399790 JonC said:
Quote:
but would hate missing out on the prospect next month too.


I'd hate it too, but the trickle down effect of adding Thomas could go beyond just the left tackle spot. You could potentially be improving up to three OL positions. It's the kind of move that IMO elevates this team from "possible contender" to "serious problem for everyone else".

This team is clearly going for it now. So if that's the approach, actually go for it. As it stands now we're a Pugh injury away from who knows what the hell happens on the offensive line.
I don't think there's any question that Thomas would represent  
jcn56 : 3/20/2017 11:55 am : link
fair value for a #2, especially when ours is in the bottom half of the round.

The question still remains - he's elite, he's paid less than market (compared to recent signings) and he's been healthy for the duration of his career. Why trade him, and why trade him for only a 2nd round pick?

If this guy had been available for a 2nd rounder, don't you think someone - like Elway - would have given it up by this point, even if Reese wouldn't?
jcn  
Go Terps : 3/20/2017 11:58 am : link
I agree with you. I certainly wouldn't trade him for a 2nd. I'm not sure I would trade him for a 1st.

But if I'm the Giants, if a first rounder gets it done I make that deal. The odds we get an elite player at that spot are small.
terps  
djm : 3/20/2017 12:02 pm : link
we didn't have to give up the pick along with signing JPP long term. Big difference.

I wouldn't cry if we traded the 2nd for Thomas but I don't think it's a slam dunk.

Since when is a 32 year old a lock to maintain his high level of play? Am I missing something? Nothing is a lock. It's probably a safer bet to expect Thomas to maintain things compared with expecting the 2nd rounder to come in and dominate but that doesn't mean it's a no brainer of a trade.

You're taking on more money and giving away a young cost controlled player. And you have a former first rounder at LT already. It's not an easy decision at all.

What if Flowers was destined to mature in year three? Something we have seen 100s of times here. Then what? You just lost your LT of the future and took on more salary and lost a second round pick. Sounds painful to me.

What if the Giants see things in Flowers these last few weeks that bumps up their beliefs in his future?
oh and reality check boys and girls  
djm : 3/20/2017 12:04 pm : link
if you think Thomas is accepting a trade here and NOT demanding a new contract, you are living in fantasy land. Say bye bye to that affordable 10 million salary. Say hello to renegotiating a bigger deal. He's coming to NY. He's gonna want more money.
PFT has much  
area junc : 3/20/2017 12:05 pm : link
more credibility than being given here. If they are sayyng he was being shopped for a 2, its probably true.

We can debate the merits of that from the Browns end but its not very interesting. They ard in fire-sale rebuilding mode with a notoriously cheap owner. And its the Browns. Why did they give up on Bill Belichick? Why havent they gotten a good QB since Bernie Kosar? Why have they barely sniffed the Playoffs since Jim Brown was running?

They are a poorly run team and its no secret Thomas has been "on the block" for a couple years now. Why a deal hasnt gone down is anyone's guess, but hes been available.
RE: terps  
Go Terps : 3/20/2017 12:09 pm : link
In comment 13399831 djm said:
Quote:
we didn't have to give up the pick along with signing JPP long term. Big difference.

I wouldn't cry if we traded the 2nd for Thomas but I don't think it's a slam dunk.

Since when is a 32 year old a lock to maintain his high level of play? Am I missing something? Nothing is a lock. It's probably a safer bet to expect Thomas to maintain things compared with expecting the 2nd rounder to come in and dominate but that doesn't mean it's a no brainer of a trade.

You're taking on more money and giving away a young cost controlled player. And you have a former first rounder at LT already. It's not an easy decision at all.

What if Flowers was destined to mature in year three? Something we have seen 100s of times here. Then what? You just lost your LT of the future and took on more salary and lost a second round pick. Sounds painful to me.

What if the Giants see things in Flowers these last few weeks that bumps up their beliefs in his future?


There is something wrong with the Giants when it comes to judging and coacting offensive linemen. I don't know what that something is, but they have spent two recent first round picks on left tackles that can't play left tackle, and Richburg's regression in 2016 was disquieting.

Right now I'm not sure I trust the Giants all that much when it comes to the offensive line.
now  
djm : 3/20/2017 12:10 pm : link
if you're gonna tell me that to a man, the Giants believe Flowers is not going to be a viable LT, that he's better suited to RG or RT, ok fine, I would have to do the Thomas deal. But we don't know that.

The whole Flowers to RT thing seems like a huge stretch to me. I have never seen a Giants player struggle at LT only to flourish at RT. I've seen tackles struggle and flourish at guard, but never LT to RT.

I have seen LTs struggle here in years one and two only to flourish in year three. Jumbo Elliot comes to mind. He was a mess in 88, better in 89 but still shaky and very good in year 3. William Roberts was a mess at tackle. Moved to guard after a few years and flourished.
I trust the Giants when it comes to personnel  
djm : 3/20/2017 12:13 pm : link
I take the losses with the wins. They are right more often than not.

What's confounding is we don't know how the feel about Flowers at LT. Lip service means nothing to me. And just because they didn't chase after some overpriced LTs in FA doesn't convince me of anything either. I am with you, Flowers is a huge ?? mark but we don't know what the Giants are thinking here.

What if we draft a tackle in round 1? All this talk of no OTs in the draft is overstated. For one thing, there may not be any BLUE GOOSE Tackles but that doesn't mean there aren't any viable starting LTs. Ok fine, there isn't a Tony Boselli. There sure looks to be a few Jumbos out there.
The Browns spent big to acquire Kevin Zeitler and J.C. Tretter.  
Klaatu : 3/20/2017 12:19 pm : link
They also gave Joel Bitonio an extension. They've got three young guns who will compete for the starting RT job. Why the hell would they trade Joe Thomas when they've made a concerted effort to reinforce their offensive line?
Terps is right on about this one  
Mike from Ohio : 3/20/2017 12:32 pm : link
The Giants have blind spots for offensive linemen and linebackers. The idea they can draft projects at either position and coach them up into serviceable players is dubious at best given the past several years. The line needs help now, and ith Joe Thomas you know what you are getting, and you are getting it on Day 1. If they only wanted a second I would give it to them in a heartbeat.

Having said all that, he is an All-Pro and is paid below market. Why would the Browns trade him for a second? The only reasonable answer is "they are the Browns."

If I am the Giants, I do that deal everyday. If I am the Browns I would not return that phone call.
RE: Terps is right on about this one  
jcn56 : 3/20/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13399913 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
The Giants have blind spots for offensive linemen and linebackers. The idea they can draft projects at either position and coach them up into serviceable players is dubious at best given the past several years. The line needs help now, and ith Joe Thomas you know what you are getting, and you are getting it on Day 1. If they only wanted a second I would give it to them in a heartbeat.

Having said all that, he is an All-Pro and is paid below market. Why would the Browns trade him for a second? The only reasonable answer is "they are the Browns."

If I am the Giants, I do that deal everyday. If I am the Browns I would not return that phone call.


You're mixing up two positions where the Giants have not behaved similarly at all.

On the OL you have a 1st rounder (top 10), 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, FA 3rd rounder (Jerry) and a 7th rounder in Hart. It's not that the Giants do not prioritize the OL, they've just had a combination of bad selections and bad health (going back some time, with Beatty, Baas and Snee).

At LB, the Giants deliberately deprioritize. They don't spend much in resources, draft picks or FA, thinking they'd rather spend higher on the DL and on defensive backs. Right or wrong, the formula has won them two Super Bowls and they had the defense humming last season.
Why would the Browns do it?  
Overseer : 3/20/2017 12:41 pm : link
Because they're not winning a meaningful game for at least several years. And that's if they can find a quarterback which they've been historically incapable of doing.

Good players are traded from bad teams all the time.

It's probably not likely to happen, but to characterize it as some pipe dream is silly.
For a 2?  
TD : 3/20/2017 12:43 pm : link
Hell yes.
the Browns won't do it  
djm : 3/20/2017 2:06 pm : link
this is purely hypothetical.
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